I know it is a silly question but I figure what the heck. What is the smallest dozer you have pushed with. Was self loading the other day finishing up a little job and got to some hard wet clay and need a little help. So what all I had was the good old 850 case and the nice 750J deere with GPS. So instead of smoking a tranny we pushed with the 850 looked funny as could be but work great in a pinch. So it got me wondering if any one else had to "make it work". '
You got me beat bad. Smallest i've seen used was a 5M PAT on a wetland project couple years ago. There were 2 613's and a 611. They were pushing the open bowl through the really nasty stuff and the dozer was finish grading in between pushes. Whatever works, right?
Used an old D6 8U stickshift to pushload elevating JD760s in Oklahoma's muddy red clay while working a housing development.
we have pushed our 613s with a jd650 before. it worked great for what we were doing.
I was pushing a 613 with a D4C through sand a couple years ago. Worked pretty slick.
At work the landfill we run we use kiln dried saw dust to make a nonslip road surface for winter. After a few weeks if its wet it will sour and smell. Ill make a few long pushes with the D5B and let what spills off my blade makes aomd good windrows. The 762 wont pull it without spinning the road up. I got to pushing the 762 with the 5B. The 762 isnt real beefy in the rear but you can lightly pus them for traction. ill lett him load it and take it to the compost piles. Ive even done this with a D3C.
pushed our 27s with our old 850B... helped but wasnt great
put my D3 behind a D7 pulling a No. 70 pan. Was more for feel good support.
I got told as a youngster, to never push load an elevating scraper. The draft arms and neck were never designed for it. Anyone else heard the same?
As a young lad my dad had an HD 5 AC farm cat with a dozer. The county was building a new road through our place and was using a D 8 and cable scraper. I came up behind the outfit unbeknown to the operator and gave him a push. Don't think he even knew I was back there. When he got loaded I sliped into 5th gear and rattled up alongside him so he stopped, looked down at me, spit on the track and hollered over to me. "Why don't you park that thing alongside this one tonight and let er suck awhile."
Haha, I had a John Deere 450 help push me through a wet fill while I was on a 651 cat! He just happened to be tracking through the fill when I spun out and I just needed a slight nudge to make it! But as far as pushcat in the cut, a single D6 pushing on a 651 for a little T&M project is the smallest I've seen.
Yes Jim I agree , best use for the back end of an elevating scraper is a tow hitch for your ute
We used to regulary push load E 211s & 412s with TD 15B/Cs back in NZ, never had any problems with draught arms etc. The main thing was for the dozer operator to ease off on the power as the bowl filled to allow the elevator to keep turning at max speed rather than stall it out. The main reason for pushing was in slippery going traction, or lack of it was the problem, the dozer was there to provide forward motion while the elevator did the loading, scraper was usually in N with full power to the elevator and the dozer controlled the forward speed. Worked well. Cheers RDG.
I used a Wabco 550 to push load our scrapers really worked well it was about 160hp, my brother used an old cat d4 to push his scraper when it needed a slight shove
Exactlly! All I was doing was providing a little extra traction to get the underpowerd 613 through the super loose blow sand. Last year I was pushing a brand new rental 623G with a 6R in the same conditions. Just back off the push cat power and let the elevator do its trick. The push cat is just to keep the momentem up, and keep the scraper from spinning out in the loose sand.
Guilty, pushing elevators with a JD 772 We werent loading it was just too steep!!
When u really get down and look at it, by push loading a scraper there is less strain on the draught arms/hitch etc by push loading cause all the power from the pusher goes directly to the cutting edge, so the front assembly has virtually no load on it apart from steering. In self loading the draught arms/ hitch etc take all the pull so would put it under more stress than a push load operation. Just my 2 cents worth. Cheers RDG.
here is a pic i snapped .
THe rear end of a 762 is really lightly built the channels that the ejector plate rollers run in are buiil into the rear bumper and thay can be twist from heavy pushing. THe one we just started redoing had a large push block on it from the landfill that closed. They pushed it with a 953 loader when it was stuck . Pushing wont hurt when empty and the scraper is stuck .
RDG I think it boils down to the operators, there are guys out there that can bend draft arms on 631s with a d8, I would'nt let them on my elevator let alone push it. On the other hand a person like yourself and the others talking on this subject all seem fully aware of the implications of pushing an elevator and would have no problems. I think the cost of pushing an elevator takes away the economic advantage of the self loading scraper, if the material or terrain is not suitable for an elevator , maybe an open bowl machine or twin power elevator is the way to go. If you are pushing an elevator effectively the elevator itself becomes a hinderance and slows materiall entering the bowl, If the elevator is running it tends to pound on the material rather than carrying it up, this is hard on the chains and gives the drive train gyp. I still stand with Jim on this one its better not to do it.
Hi Showpony, Ive done it in the same situation as RDG, pushing 101 Wabcos and a Michigan elevator scraper with my D4E. Only reason I was pushing was because of the greasy pug clay and the lack of traction with rubber tyres. On another occasion had to use my old gear drive D4D to push a Terex TS8 to help get that last 1/3 of a load into its bowl; again in greasy clay; it could self load for 2/3 load but needed a shove for a full load. Was slow but if its all thats on the job u use what you got. terex TS8 was built in scotland for the pommy army, so u won,t see them in the USA. 8yd struck 11 heaped, twin 100hp Bedford diesels. Concept was good, but design less so. Merv
I was told it's not good for the elevator, never heard anything about the draft frame or gooseneck.
I will say one thing the IH E 211/ 412s had a very strong elevator both in the design and power compared to the 613, they even had hydraulic chain adjusters and sealed for life idlers on the chain which was way ahead of what the 613 had at the time. We used to push ours a lot and had very little trouble considering some of the conditions we worked in, put teeth on the cutting edge when the ground got hard but they could usually self load then as the ground was dry, slippery conditions was the main reason to push them the ground being wet, as D6 Merv said you make do with what U have on site.
Yesterday i was pushin TS24 Mk 5 all day with my D6N
Had my Wabco 229F push loaded by Cat D5 some years back. No problem getting a full load
We push load elevators alot if the cut is to short or they cant get traction, it works really well in sand.
D-5H with narrow tracks pushing 627E's. Not all day, just when they needed a bit of help. Last year for a different company I was pushing 627's with an old 1982 16G. Big ol push block on front just for it! Worked better than I expected. Steve
Re: pushing with the 16G It has 275 HP and weighs #54,000 it is comparable with a D-7 dozer. No reason to think it wouldn't do a fair job pushing 627's. It is hard on drive chains and axles though. Pushing loads the tires, giving more traction. Blading unloads the tires, reducing traction. I know of several broken axles and worn chains from pushing 631's with one.
Smallest pusher?Back in the early 80s we used to use a Wabco 101f to assist in finish grading around homes.More than once I had pushed the 101f with a John Deere 301-A tractor with a Bradco 6 way blade mounted on front and a landscape rake on the rear. It actually helped the Wabco but it wasnt the bestest pusher.
We push our 627's with a D6R it works but would love to have an 8, of course in big straight cuts we just hook the pans together nothing better
??? You should be able to load a pair of 27's in the length of the scraper push pullin (Unless its rocky soil)
we only use the 6 in tight situations where you don't have room to hook up
I did push a 613B with a D6D one time through very sticky clay. The dozer just pushing enough to stop wheelspin on the scraper and all worked well
OMG!!!!! Your dads remembering shook cobwebs from me, reminds me of the good ol days when big d9 and d8s ruled the land clearing world!!!lol
:lmao:lmao I got to find a reason to use that tomarrow.
smallest pushcats In the past I have pushed a 613 elevator sraper with a D6 just giving the scraper enough weight to prevent excessive wheelspin whilst trying to load heavy black wet soil. After about a foot or more of wet soil was gone it was back to normal again with no damage done. Pete
I push load a 627G most days with a D6R II. you manly just push tyne rear down so the back tires can work a lot better. We can get some get loads and its not hard
Very true, only do it if it gets stuck and it can't be cutting
i know what you mean buddy.
Used a med sized Cat Telehandler once to push a dog of a 623 around. Mostly when the greenhorn got it stuck, but to load some too. It had a bucket on and it didn't take the abuse it to well.