Just wondering if any of you have figured out a way to get traction in winter time? I have made some bolt on cleats for both my machines and I do have the camoplast BBE tracks on the T300. Still is a struggle pushing snow or climbing hill with the CTL:Banghead!! Has anyone tried studs or what works best for you? I know tracks aren't meant for snow, but when its all a guy has than you try to make it work!!
We have studded tracks in the past with snowmobile studs..that worked really well but was a huge undertaking to install all of the studs with the backing plates. We had drill through the track and mounted each one....last year we tried motorcycle ice racing studs. They just go directly into the thread from the top side with no backers required . Much improved traction on ice and snow but the heavy skid would pull a few every now and again but we simple screwed in another and went again. Rubber tracked machines are not good in the snow and ice period but the motorcycle studs did improve traction greatly...care needs to be taken if you pare on blacktop , the studs can and will tear stuff up pretty good if you are not paying attention. We were in the woods fighting for traction on frozen rock hard earth...most of our machines run on metal undercarriages now so not that much of an issues but the ones on rubber are studded year round...good luck.
I never had an issue(when I lived in the Adirondacks) except when an ice storm came, but then it didn't matter whether it was rubber tracks or rubber tires.
MTL's are the best track machines in snow hands down, and, depending on how much snow and how wet it is you'll out push a wheeled machine of the same size. That said rigid frame CTL's (like your bobcat) are pretty much worthless in snow, it takes a bit of thinking ahead when plowing with one. As for how to make it better traction wise, well, what I do is just park it and use a mtl :tong Studding it would be your best bet.
I have never used studs before. But these look like they would work good for tires or tracks. http://www.maxigripicestuds.com
I forgot to add that establishing a pattern is critical when you place the studs. The idea is to have as many contact points as possible with the studs to the surface. We have over 750 studs in each track and could have placed more with ease. I ran them on a diagonal across the entire width facing forward movement if that makes sense to you...A normal, semi aggressive snowmobile Pattern has approx 144 studs according to the guy I bought my studs from..Rubber tracks on snow and ice is never great even with studded tracks but much improved over having nothing....We tried fab'ed up cleats once but torn those off in a few weeks time while working in the woods....
Off topic a bit but basically same discussion. Back when I road sled(snowmobile) all my friends would stud their tracks, I never did. I went all the places they did and had just as much fun. On the upside my tracks lasted a lot longer and didn't tear out. Studding the track was not all bad it did give them a quicker hole shot and on bare lakes(no snow just ice) they obviously dug in better. For me the cost didn't justify the studs, for them it did, difference of opinion/ego. I think studding a CTL might be worth it, but it will shorten the life of the track. I used an MTL and have to agree with Movindirt.
Studing does not shorten the life of a snowmobile track, It may have in the past on vintage sleds with crap tracks but not on today modern tracks. We stud all our tracks with little degradation to track life. Anyone that knows snowmobiling, knows that you don't stud your track to be able to go, you stud your track to be able to stop ! . Yes, they help bite out of the hole and provide traction going forward but mostly used to stop the sled from high speeds in a controlled mAnner. If anyone doubts what in saying, get going about 65 down an icy highway and slam on the brakes of your car or truck and tell what happens...out of control in a big hurry , Modern sleds are extremely fast , In order to go fast, you first need to be able slow down just as quickly or you will only go fast one or two times before you kill yourself...,besides what does a guy from Tennesee know about snow and ice..,,ha ha ha...just kiddin on that part.
Well my cleats that I put on my tracks are actually giving me a lot of traction! I would say that on the level when clearing beside a wheeled machine with chains, that my machine is still doing better. I just have been having trouble keeping them on the track and was looking around for another solution. I think the biggest part of our winter here is over though in central BC so I'll just keep doing what I'm doing till spring
Post pictures of you cleats, close up and we can maybe help why they are comming off.
I agree that modern tracks are better but putting a stud in does put a lot more force/stress on that small area compared to the track just sitting on the ground. So taking a piece of track drilling holes into it then placing a stud doesn't cause more stress then if the track were to just be used undrilled and unstuded? Again I agree newer tracks are much better quality. I grew up ridding the older machines 12-3 and the 335 skidoos, rupp, scorpion, snow jet etc.. I have also owned and put many miles on modern machines. Kind of a contradiction in your own wording. I doubt highly back when the studs came out they were worried about stopping. Studding is for better control/handling and originally better hole shot and traction especially when it came to ice racing. Is there a benefit to stopping, of course, but the real reason for studding is traction, a little bit of an edge over your competitor, better contact means higher speed . Why are you doing 65 on an icy highway in your vehicle, and then slamming on your brakes? Lived in the Adirondack mountains most of my life, just recently moved here(less then 2 years) I remember back in the day when we would ride sled almost every week from thanksgiving until easter. Weekends were the time to go to the lake races, trust me, know one that studed was worrying about stopping, in fact complete opposite, they were trying to get that extra edge on speed. You can have 300hp but if you can't make that 300hp contact the ground you might as well have a kittykat(not sure if they make them anymore). I remember when the cleated tracks came out, if you weren't careful and stopped on the lake they'd freeze solid, course that is when they came out with this new style undercarriage, sliders instead of boogie wheels. Pafarmer; I agree to a point with what you're saying, but lets not kid anyone, studs are for speed and control. They were designed to get the machine moving as quick as possible, an added benefit is control and yes better stopping. Be safe out there on the trails, had many friends over the years loose their lives or become crippled because of speeding on sleds, one reason I quit riding. I was never worried about my driving but met many of idiots drunk, racing through the woods to get from one bar to another. Last ride I took we had a small group left at 800hrs in the morn, by 1000hrs we met our 1st drunk. He had driven into a tree. His group thought it was funny, they got him loose, then he drove straight into my wife's sled, got him loose again and he nailed another tree. Never understood the need to do 80-100MPH while going through the woods, oh well maybe I'm just getting old
Oh man, I can see you are a snowmobile expert......and that you are one of those Guys that enjoys twisting words about to make their own point ! You may be a politician ! My qualifications to comment are as follows, My family owned and operated a huge Yamaha franchise for 25 plus years. We sold snowmobiles and motorcycles, ATV's m generators etd and lots of them. Can you Guess who studded the tracks on just about every single sled we sold and who spoke to the Reps selling the studs themselves for most of those 25 years...Go back to sleep now Maddog......old guys Jeez !!!:Banghead:Banghead:deadhorse He he he
I use a ASV RC30 regularly, for snow pushing (well as regular as MD gets snow, LOL). Never had any real problems, except in one ice storm, when I wasn't even pushing snow (I was moving a round bale, to feed the cows, and slid down a slick spot, maybe 60 feet till I lowered the bale, as a brake!). Never put studs on it, never needed them...
WOW, sounds like one hell of a ride DIYDAVE ! the AVS chassis is much better in the snow than most others....
Had over a foot of wet snow in driveway/dirt road this morning. Usually clear it with my Cat rubber tire skid steer. It is dead for now, so I had to use my new Ditch Witch SK850. It took a lot longer, and I dug up the road more. Partly because machine is new to me and smaller, but also there is less feel to the bucket controls, and the tracked machine tends to ride right up on the snow if the blade is not angled down a bit. Have to watch for those icy branches with no cab protection! The machine goes great over the snow , but just like with rubber tire loader, it is good to get down to driveway surface and not make an ice glaze & start sliding around. If I was still doing commercial snow removal, and had to use this machine, I'd get a snow blower attachment or at least an angle plow.
Did the whole 800 foot driveway today, about 3-3-1/2 hours. It was about 1 continuous drift 3-4' deep. The ASV RC 30 and the 6' angle blade did well. Some of the piles were close to 10'high... Woulda been less time to do it with the blower, but I got a chain off it, and need to replace it, just ain't had the time, yet...
I could have used some of those on the sidecar outfit I road to work year round! Actually would be interesting to try them on the yard loader that does work year round loading truck and plowing snow in the quarry. Watching a 980K sliding along with all four wheels stopped when you are in a little Case 1845C can get your heart beating a little fast!
Thank god you all got done fighting about studs on snowmobiles.....My t770 pushes fair to crappy. If it is fresh snow it is ok, like pushing off an area that has dirt or something underneath. I would never go try plowing a commercial snow account with it. The traction is horrible on frozen blacktop. CD
Track skid loaders on paving is hard on the cabs, vibrates everything loose. If you need this machine in the dirt or stone I would limit the snowplowing.
Huh ?
A bobcat or whatever will shake the crap out of everything on blacktop. Especially with weight on the idlers. For some reason my cat machine is smooth as glass on pavement. I think it has something to do with the torsion axle and the front idler riding on the belt whereas a bobcat runs the idler on the links. Plowing with tracks? The physics are all wrong for creating ground pressure to equal traction. I'm surprised nobody has made a super narrow track that is just as wide as the rollers.
DoyleX; Thanks for clearing that up, I was wondering the same thing, HUH. I owned the CAT and thought the ride was rather smooth.
Same here, thanks. My CAT rides good most places and certainly on a smooth surface like pavement it rides fantastic...could not figure out what in the heck you were attempting to say.. As far as tracks and snow...no question about it, rubber tracks are pretty poor on snow and ice no matter what you do to them...I few years back I put the Bridgestone winter tracks on one of my machines for giggles and although traction was much improved I still would not say the machine had good traction by anyone's measure...
Thanks DoyleX, I have tried Bobcat and Gehl skid loaders on tracks.
Cat uses a system, that ASV designed, they bought into the company. Now its owned by terex. My RC-30 is smooth as glass, on blacktop, the torsion axles are shock absorbers. Cat's early SL's with the ASV system didn't have the exact balance that the early ASV's had, these models were made as wheeled loaders, but adapted to the ASV torsion track system. You can tell by looking at the fender cutouts on the cat machines, look just like a wheeled loader, but have the triangular shaped track. Newer machines might be designed from the track up, I haven't kept up with changes, cause I already have mine... With this tier 4 crap coming on the market, now, I have given up on looking at new stuff...
Can you post some pics of your equipment? Love to see the 299 with metal tracks and forestry package. Also pics of the studed tracks. Thx
Here is a CAT 299XHP Land management package....I will have a picture of one of my New 259D with AFE mulching head tomorrow. Took delivery a few weeks bavk and I just recd. the AFE head and then its off to the woods never to be seen again. Going to be using this little CAT for recreational contract where ATV trails are being cleared for a riding park plus other related projects where a smaller footprint mulcher is a requirement..
Really nice looking machine! I'll bet that thing is a monster with the steel tracks. That contact you got sounds great. Where you located in Pa? I'm a fellow pa'er myself. Familiar with the laurel mountains. Sounds like a lot of fun to pioneer atv trails.
So are the steel tracks an option from cat now. My buddy was a cce salesman and was pushing for them 10 years ago.
They are an option for the large frame machines and can be part of the land management 299XHP machines. I think I was one of the first to have them around my area and certainly had them on prior to Cat making them optional equipment. They are a really expensive addition as you can imagine but well worth the expense in rough terrain and where added traction is required. We can out push D5 with these units. they are the ultimate mulchers as far as a CTL platform is concerned. Extremely powerful machines with more Hydro power than any machine on the market today. All of our299XHP flow hydro way over the advertised spec from the CAT literature. Great hydro pumps and systems cost money and in my opinion that what you are mostly paying for with the 299 XHP units....even my little 259 D flows in excess of 30 GPM !
I never really considered the gpm to be that important honestly. Do you think that has a considerable effect if your just doing traditional digging and grading with a bucket? Or is the higher gpm really only important for specific attachment applications?
I think it's very important on allot of attachments but mainly for me on a forestry head. Looking for quick recovery times and high flow rate. As far for digging, grading etc when you are strictly using a bucket not so much but most folks have some type of attachment that benefits from high flow hydro's such wood choppers, mulchers, power takes etc etc...