So I posted another thread about 2 weeks ago about being anxious before a job, I got a call to do 800ft of trench in downtown jersey city and set 2 small manholes. I thought it would be money in the bank as I was going to show up with another crew, all together we had 12 laborers, 2 air compressors, 4 jackhammers, a Cat 430, a Case 580, triaxle dump truck, 2 air compressors and a utility truck. Well the road surface was 24in thick, on top of 4 inches of concrete, and there was even solid bed rock in some places. We were averaging about 60 feet per day, when I was expecting to do 400+. I had to call it quits mid way through because I was losing a lot of money and at the price being paid for the job I just couldnt continue, its the first time in almost 2 years in business that I actually had to stop a job. Coming right out of the winter I didnt have enough in the bank to take on a job like this, asphalt went up to $90 a ton for some reason compared to $55 a ton last year. I dont feel so bad about it as it was good experience, and I have work lined up for next week that I can make back my money. After this job I really want to move into residential contracting.....heres some pictures from the first day...
And for your amusement.....the worst saw cutting I have ever seen in my life. This is why I want to get out of industrial contracting...
why jackhammers instead of a breaker on a backhoe? Saw cut it, send the first hoe in to break it up, second cleans it out, and lays the pipe, or is there some condition i dont know about? Oh, and trust me there are ways to screw up in residential work as well...
Sorry to hear your job didn't go well. Excellent pictures, though!
Well I dont have access to a breaker for a backhoe and also I was worried about utilities buried in the road surface, I dont have a lot of experience with breakers on backhoes/excavators though. If the job paid more though that would probably be the way to go
Please do not take this wrong, because there is no harm intended. How are you able to walk off of a job halfway through? Even though you are losing money doesn't mean it is ok to tuck tail. What about you're reputation? You're relationship with the client? It is easy to see why the job was difficult but didn't you know what was involved? 400' feet a day down a city street with that equipment is dreaming. I know times are tough but walking away from work is never a good idea. I have sucked it up many times and finished jobs that were a loss, but usaully the client appreciates that and hsa something else down the road. I am not trying to pick a bone or talk s...t. so maybe next time things will be different. good luck. p.s don't think residential is any easier. I would think a mini ex with a trenching bucket and a skid steer with a hammer, sweeper and bucket would have done it. 2 operaters, 2 guys fitting pipe and jumping jacking and a tandem. I know you have to work with what you have. so maybe easier said than done.
I would be afraid of the guy suing me for thousands for non-completion and delays That could make your loses so far look tiny. I am not an excavator but you need to know what you are digging and if I didn't know from municipal plans I would have qualified the bid as to what I was digging. The contractor may figure he got something for nothing if he didn't pay you and let you walk hopefully. I know if I walk from a masonry contract they would have the right to bring in another contractor and that would not be cheap probably inflated, plus hit me with delay cost. You have learned a lesson hope it doesn't get to costly. You never truly make up a loss unless some hands you a pile of money.
Hi Aliate, nice to see you on here, sorry about your job but I have to say I could have expected nothing else. I have worked in the area for years and if you can dig there, you can dig any where, utilitys all over the place and then some. I even know the exact street you were working on. you can forget about using a hammer there also,as far as the rock goes its either blast or nothing.if this was your first job in the area I hope to see you around and best of luck in the future.:usa
Well, Colorado Digger said it best. How you deal with problems says more about a person than how you deal with success. I do not know the area you are working in, but from what I have seen here, to plan on 400 ft per day in city streets with many other utilities, is a recipe for failure. The comment about asphalt price being what it was, didn't you call for quotes? Things like asphalt, plastic pipe, and much of the other material you use depends greatly on the price of oil, and it changes quite often. Last year at this time, oil was around $40 per bbl, this year it is around $80 per bbl. you should expect a huge price increase. When oil was $140 per bbl, prices were even higher. Saying you did not know really says you did not check before you priced your work. You say you can't afford a breaker for the backhoe, but what does labor cost. If 1 backhoe can break more than 2 men with compressors and jackhammers, try renting the breaker. It will be cheaper than the 2 men, unless you are paying peanuts. When I started out, and still, if I don't have the right tool for the job, one of the rental houses does, and I get it. The job gets done, and you save money too. This sounds like a good lesson in qualifying your bid. You are still responsible to do due dilligence, but if you expect to dig 8" of AC, and you fins 24" instead, that is grounds for a change order, as long as you spelled it out beforehand. I am assuming this work is for a private developer of some kind, or a general contractor, because if it was public works, for the city, county, state, etc.. you would have to have a bond that guarrantees you to finish the work. Regarding the sawcutting, did they work for you? They were on your job, and you allowed it to go on that way. If the work is not adequate, then they should have to correct it. There is a pattern here, if the general contractor hired them, it tells me he is hiring unqualified "contractors??" and the quality of work he is getting shows it. Why are they in the cutting business if they can't cut a straight line? If they are working for you, why are you letting them do the work like that? I know if I walked off a job that was not finished, I would expect to never again work for that customer, or anyone he knows. This is a small industry, and word travels fast, bad word even faster. It only takes word of one failed job like this to keep you out of many jobs in the future. Many of the prequalifying questionares you have to fill out to work for compaanies ask if you have ever walked off of a job. The only thing worse than a yes answer in that space is a lie that comes out later. I do wish you luck with this problem, but you have dug yourself a hole by not finishing the hole you were digging. I probably sound like I am riding your case, but I bet there is a qualified contractor sitting somewhere without work while you are mucking around blindly loosing money and costing others as well.
I have been in this situation before, I did a job in stamford, CT, where we did 200 feet of trench that was through 8 inches of asphalt and 24 inches of steel reinforced concrete, I just got it done, didnt really make any money but I did it. On this job I cannot continue, I ran myself completely out of money to the point where I cant pay for asphalt for the job. Ive got smaller stuff lined up for next week to get me back on my feet but working for this GC has been like this for a year and a half now. I understand the importance of just sticking it out and getting the job done, and I wish I could, but it will put me out of business on this one. I do appreciate the advice though and I dont take offense or anything, its just different on my end. I rented the backhoe and dumptruck, I just own a utility truck that has a built in 185cfm air compressor for 2 jackhammers and also a 6 wheel 33,000gvw dump truck.
Nice to see someone who knows the area, I was able to do about 4 other jobs in the area, and had nowhere near the problems that I did on this one. We hit everything you can imagine in the ground including steel plates.
,As far as the sawcutting goes... please tell me that was a subcontracter. If my guys did that kind of work, first a prompt ass chewing, second a redo- we would have opened the saw cut up another foot and had nice clean cuts . I know my guys can cut a straight line with a cut off saw, although we would have rented a walk behind for that one. Any one with any experience will tell you to take you're lumps and get it done. There is no excuse for that type of work and usually a job that starts rough ends rough. We are here to help... or at least I am. I would seriously calling the client and make prompt amends. Sometimes it can cost tens of thousands of dollars that comes out of our pocket, other times the client will help out. Communication is important. Whatever city you worked in is probably due a phone call as well. What cities allow street cuts without bonds?. I don't know what the work went for but someone else is probably saying" I told you so" It is not all of the jobs that went perfect with satisfied clients but the one that got away from you. Everybody always remembers a messed up job. not trying to be to rough but i would think about it. p.s.s. if you have anxiety about 800' foot of 2' deep trench down a city street don't even consider looking at any water or sewer,that might cause a nervous breakdown. p.s.s.s. if you rented equipment, why not think about a mini that can load a truck tail gate style? I am not bagging on you so sorry if it comes across harsh. call the g.c. and work it out. it is not business so i cannot make those calls, but if finishing the job is gonna break you maybe you should have thought about that before you started.
Just to clarify with everyone about walking off the job and all, this job was a lot less formal than you think, I never bid on the job. I am sub contracting for a guy that bought out my father's company 10 years ago. The way things have been working with this guy is that he will call me up on friday and say were digging 800ft of trench starting monday 9am. This is how this job worked out. The GC brought in one of his crews that he pays by the hour and can afford to do this job. They are not paying extra based on the conditions. The GC is paying 30$ a foot and we were getting 50 feet a day. I dont know how to explain my relationship with this GC but the way they work is ridiculous. They work with broken equipment, they do hand work instead of using machinery, its just crazy. This guy works like the egyptians do. If I had the money I would rent a backhoe with a hammer and get this job done. This GC has kept me broke. I made the mistake of buying a dump truck from him for 14,000$ and it was kind of just a handshake deal and hes taking as much as he can out of each my checks towards the truck. I put in a 6,500$ invoice for my retainage and he took 4,000$ towards the truck, he wanted to take the entire thing but I had to explain to him that I needed it towards bills. I know it looks and sounds like my business is ass backwards, and it is at the moment. I started with absolutely nothing and Im being run through the meat grinder, Im doing my best to get away from this GC because its killing me. Colorado, that was the other crew on the job, I couldnt believe my eyes after he was finished saw cutting. Another thing Im only 23 years old and I dont have a lot of experience in the business yet. But yes I did not have to put up a bond or anything Im guessing the GC did that. The actual customer is vorcom, I dont even know who they are. I think as far as they know, I am an employee of the GC, I even just put his name on the side of my trucks for now until I get the decal I want of my company name. I am incorporated but Im in the process of getting a name change.
ok, the guy is using you and he knows that. so watch out and be careful , i remember those days and the gc's look at you with thier mouth drooling. take it as a lesson learned.
what do you mean the gcs look at you with their mouth drooling?
He means the GC saw someone he could take advantage of as in your young and don't have a lot of experience.. Lot of good points made in here. I would say a breaker would of been over kill though. From my experience that 420 would of pulled up the AC with CLEAN saw cuts by a good operator. The pieces could of been drop on the ground in a way to not damage the street but yet break the large chunk into more manageable pieces.
Yeah I feel like im definitely being taken advantage of because I have absolutely no financial power to say no to any of the jobs hes throwing my way, so like I said im being run through the meat grinder.
At this point do you have any paperwork on the previously mentioned dumptruck? Or is it a handshake only deal. Please tell me you have papers to back up the dumptruck... By this point you should have some contact in the business have you thought about working for another GC? Another solution might be to do the job faster with different equipment. Maybe cut it deeper with a highway saw rather than a cutoff? Try renting a larger wheel excavator. When all else fails look at what others are using in the area to do simular work.
There is a rockwheel I have access to but it is in the shop, but yeah that would be the solution to this job. And no I dont have paperwork on the dump truck. My father sold this guy his business for 300,000$ on a handshake and we had a check every friday from him for about 2 years. One thing about him is he pays on time, all the time. I guess I consider him an old friend in that respect. edit - If I could do it over though I would do it with paperwork.
So in other words you are running a truck that is registered to the DMV to someone else? Cause there is no way in hell you could register it in your name without a title. In other words, your getting shafted coming and going. Might want to sit down and do some serious thinking
No the truck is registered in my company name, I have the title for the truck. By paperwork I thought you meant some kind of loan contract.
Well then if the truck is in your name, this guy has no right to take any money out of your pay. You pay him on your terms. Sounds like you need to find someone else to work for.
yeah thats what Im trying to do, its been a rough 1.5 yrs for me.
Hi aliate, I am glad to see you getting good advice from people on here it is my experience that there is a incredible wealth of knowledge on here that anybody would be foolish to pass on. I personally dont think you should ever attempt a job like that with 2 crews, in that unbelievably urban setting everyone has to be on the same page and very focused on theyre own responsibilities. The only gang that should be ahead is the saw cut crew. You really need top notch proffessionals on a job like that be it the laborers to the hoe operator to the loader operator, even the tandem driver has to be very aware, I know you know this already but I like everybody else on here we are only trying to help. To be honest with you I didnt understand why they instructed you to put the blacktop next to the trench and then load it with the loader later in the truck? If you had the room for the truck next to the trench you should load it in the truck and be done with it, I wasnt there so circumstances being what they were, I wouldnt even attempt to throw any stones. I would like to help if I can.
Yeah I told their backhoe operator thats what I wanted to do but they work so disorganized it was unbelievable. The start time is 9am, I was there at 815am every day, over the span of 2 weeks there was one day that they were on time, every other time they were there at 930 or 10.
This GC sounds like a lot of the crooks I know off. Waits till the last minute to get you set up for job and you end up working for nothing. I don't know the whole situation but I would really think hard about any future buisness dealings. Not all GC are crooks. I'm just sayin watch out for the ones who offer gold but you get the lead.
Good luck to you my friend, it looks like you are in the hornets nest. exactly what street are you on there? I know down by newport mall but where exactly? I see 101 state street building in the picture.
christopher columbus and marin blvd
yes I know the corner well, I worked at the path station 2 years ago ripiing out curb and sidewalk, well on the bright side there is a fantastic cigar shop on grove street up the street. I wish you well and think you should listen to the guys on here, they are truly knowledgable. If I am in the area tommorrow I will hook you up with a nice cup of coffee, my wife and I have to pick my mother in law up tommorrow she only lives up the street,:drinkup
Aliate, it sounds like that GC is taking advantage of you, maybe you could find others to do business with. Maybe do work for homeowners, it's gotta be easier to get your money that way, than for working for some developer or GC with a staff of lawyers working on how to screw you. Hope this helps.
hah Im not on the job anymore theres the GC's crew on the job now. and yeah I want to do things the right way I know there is a lot of experience on this board, Im open to any advice.
He is not taking advantage of you. you are working to cheap and that is part of the game in business. The GC has spoon feed you to keep you alive for his use the past 1.5 years just enough not to kill the Golden Goose he has in you. Take jobs you know and grow slowly. If you take a job for 5,000 and lose 10% you lost 500 bucks. If you take a job for 500,000 and lose 10% you lose 50,000 bucks and you need deeper pockets. If you look elsewhere the next GC may not be so kind and if you have a contract you will not be walking away easy. I guess things seem like a ton of money till you start and then it goes bad. Like a block wall is it a mile long and 4' high or 4' wide and a mile high? You seem to be biting off more than you can chew for your experience, equipment, and capital. You are better not trying to knock the ball out of the park immediately and take jobs with less risk. If he oay's you on time then the rest is your responsibility and most GC's will not look out for you only themselves. If your father sold the GC the business you need to involve him more in your business dealings and pricing. To use a cut off saw to cut 1600 feet of road is crazy if I read that correctly above. Good Luck and be careful it is a cruel world out there and many don't make it.
Aliate, Chin up. The only way you don't make mistakes is by not doing anything.
Company Lost Their Ass on a Job The layout for the whole job was wrong. The whole site was as screwed up as a Soup Sandwich! Stump Knocker
Soup Sandwich. Now there's a new one, that I don't think I want to try...! My little bit of advice follows most of what I read. I'd hang with him just long enough to get my truck paid for & get a clear title. Then get the heck out, on nice terms of course. Just tell him you are branching out. If he wants you again, negotiate carefully. As has been said- its a small world & ugly references travel fast.
you could have said thanks for the coffee offer anyway, ointhead
lol the coffee would have been nice, if you did go down that way though Id like to know if theres a crew of black guys working on the job, because if so then the other contractor lied to me, which I think he did. So many people are nice to your face but they throw you right under the bus as soon as they get the chance. About the saw, it was one of those big target walk behind saws with a 36in blade, but the guy running it was so bad at it. My plan is to eventually get away from this GC because he is keeping me in business but just barely. I suspect that hes making a ton of money off me because no matter what town or state im in its always 30$ a foot. My dad says the job is worth 60$ to 100$++ a foot. Ive worked in stamford CT, NJ and in brooklyn NY, doing trenches and its always 30$ a foot regardless of the conditions. I think the GC is greedy. He definitely did help me get on my feet though I just wish he wouldnt treat me like I have one foot out the door. Its funny, its a self fulfilling prophecy. He believes I have one foot out the door, treats me as so, and so I do. It all comes down to the fact that I have no financial power. My father was a sub contractor for the man who my current GC was an employee of. My fathers GC passed away, so GC number 2 bought out my fathers company back in 2000. 2008 came around and I wanted to get into the business so my father helped me get started with his experience, not so much financially. I think the GC has a vendetta against my father, because he was the top dog back in the day and now the tables have turned.
Ive never seen a saw cut like that before. Those road saws can be a pain if the pavement is uneven but from what i can tell in the photos that wasnt the case.
This is a perfect example of where "tuff luv" comes into play. The name of the game is to make money. If you are not SURE you are going to make money dont do it. If you dont own a piece of equipment and you need it go rent it. There are tons and tons of company's out there that dont even own a piece of equipment,they rent and lease as needed. We Always have a formal contract on everything we do even trucking,it protects both parties involved. also in my opinion there was to much laborers and not enough equipment on that job. labor has its place but work smart not hard. This sounds harsh but to say this is the first time you have lost your ass in two years is NOT something to brag about!! We have been in business 33 years and never ever lost money. And many many business's are the same.
If you father says 60-100 per ft and you took it for 30 ointhead how would you expect to make money?:beatsme I would get $12-15 per sq ft for 8" block and I know i would rather do that than the trench you did,
Ok I may be only 30 odd years+ at this and it appears I missed something, the cut is a disgrace enough said. Why do you need 12 laborers? :beatsme:beatsme Nice to see you are an optimist 121mts a day in a city area,even over here where we would not have that many people in an urban area and I would hope for maybe 50mts on average with a different equipment set up. If materials have increased in price then my good man increase your rates,If you had stayed at home and not done that job you now would be up money and still have the small other work to do. Now don't get me wrong take work from this GC but do so to make money for you not to be a nice guy or because you feel he owes you or you him, remember you can go broke with out having to work at it. I heard it said that " in business there are no nice guys " and if you fail he will bitchslap some other poor subbie out of business. Finally NEVER EVER EVER do a deal on a hand shake for equipment or work,it not worth the paper it is written on.who is to say that the amount was with or without sales tax, or that he can only take a certain % of each cheque, or what is to stop him from continuing to take money after the amount is paid for hire for the vehicle etc.Even if it is only a hand written document as long as both sign it the rules cannot be changed and that goes for work as well.
Aliate, It's good to see an open discussion on this topic. My question is: what would the GC say if he saw this discussed in an open forum? Maybe he would take your concerns seriously and pay more. Or maybe you would experience freedom sooner than you hoped for?
Well i hope all is going better for u now, Aliate, I have a question for u about the "No extras" on the job, in excavating the are always unforeseen conditons that can change in 5' and i think u could have gotten a change order or a force account for the extra work that was above plan. just saying. Take care and i am sure u will do fine. Diggerdave
Kind of a sad tale but before we all jump on the kid lets consider that he is trying to build a business out of nothing. Sure there are things he has done wrong but he is learning and is willing to share his experience with us. I betcha a lot of those who are jumping on him have made mistakes they would rather forget, let alone share with others. Anyway I can't offer any advice in this situation as I do not know all the laws involved but I hope you can get away from the situation and get paid a fair rate.
Old earthmovers saying: "let he who has not screwed up a bid and done his dough, throw the first stone" Lol
Im 21, I give him credit for taking this job on by himself at a young age to. We all have to learn some how. Laying 6-8inch gas we try to shoot for 200-280ft a day in a busy area. Many times we end up with less due to ledge, other utilities, etc. Sometimes push 300ft if all goes well. With 2 inch that comes in roles we dig about half the day with a bobcat sanding and backfilling. Once a certain point Ill take over with the backhoe and finish the backfilling and get ready to patch or plate the street. Short runs we have a saw come in. Longer stretches say 1,000ft or more or busy roads we have a track vermeer or tigercat machine come in. With saw cut hot top I never break it first, just peel it first thing get a load right on the truck and send him off.
yeah we have a vermeer wheel machine, well the GC does, but it was in the shop. I appreciate all the advice like hendrik said I AM building this from nothing, I bought my first truck and the only tools I had to put in it was the shovels out of my parents shed. Now Ive ran out of room in the truck.
Aliate, It is impossible for him to expect you to do the work for the same price if Asphalt prices have increased that much. I work for a GC and we subcontract out all of our trucking for an hourly rate. In 2008 some of our truckers came in and asked for a meeting to discuss their rate. Gas price had risen to $4 a gallon and it was financially impossible for them to continue at this rate. Basically every hour they worked, they lost money. We renegotiated to a better rate for them and that was it. In 2009 when prices went back down I called them all in and told them I was cutting their rate. They did not fight me on it. I gave them a rate increase when prices went up and I expect that when prices go down they will give me a rate decrease. I guess the reason I told you that incredibly boring story is that I would ask your GC to sit down and explain to him in a meeting that you cannot do the work for $30 a foot with asphalt prices the way they are. Additionally, let him know that you need to be able to get paid extra when conditions could not reasonably have been figured into your estimate. He is bullying you because he has a lot of the power in the relationship. However, it also sounds like you might be letting him bully you. Right now you are a company owner. As that owner I would demand a meeting and go to that meeting prepared (build yourself a case) for a discussion on why I deserve more money. You need to represent your company. No one is going to do it for you. You are young but it is time to grow as a businessman. If you do this, you might be surprised at the result.
Well put advise
yeah it is good advice, if he throws another trench my way Ill be sure to talk to him about it. The problem is like I said before I dont exactly bid on the job, he just calls me up and says I have this, be here at this time and thats it. I almost feel like an employee in some way. I know I dont have a lot of power in this relationship and I am working to change that, by getting a second source of work, I cant just have one person being my only source of business. I think once I have the ability to pick and choose what work I do with my current GC, things will change.
If you are doing that tell him you will give daily rates. He wants you to have all the problems and risk with no reward. otherwise you may be better off being an employee. Write your agreements even if it day hire and make him sigm acceptance of the work daily. When I do masonry jobs if i don't know the price of the brick or material I use an allowance of say 600 per thousand delivered and unloaded by others. Sometimes things have shot up and I eat it like copper flashing and rebar so I eat it. If the cost of you material doubles in something like paving you can be in real trouble. With the price of steel going crazy the kast few years all the steel contracts have a price per ton written in them.
I won't give you bidding advice because that's not my area of expertise. But I can explain how I've tackled this type of work in the past from my operating perspective. First off, assuming the trench is to be 3' deep, I would make sure all the utilities have been marked, and I'll put cones out to remind me where any overhead obstructions are. Then I'll strip the asphalt off and load it directly onto the truck. If you put it on the ground you'll have to move it twice, which means more time (money) wasted. As I uncover the road base I'll scratch down a little where any existing utilities cross the path of my trench, so that as I keep stripping the asphalt the laborers can expose the utilities by hand. When the truck is full and goes to dump I'll go back and start opening up the trench. By that time usually most of the utilities have been exposed by hand so the process will go faster because I'll be able to see where everything is. I'll leave my windrow out about 3' and keep it low,so when it comes time to sand the trench I can straddle the windrow without getting material in the drive-train of the machine. When the truck comes back with a load of sand, we'll dump it,and I'll get a scoop with my side-dump bucket go back, and straddle the windrow and drive ahead as I sand the bottom of the trench evenly. When I finish sanding the bottom of the trench I'll turn around and straddle the trench, put my back bucket flat in the trench with the teeth curled up slightly, and drive ahead while the back bucket smooths and flattens the trench bottom. After I do that the laborers will put in the pipe. Then I'll repeat the sanding process, then compaction, then the caution tape. To finish I'll angle my side-dump bucket like a dozer-blade, and push the windrow back in the trench, and load any extra into the truck. I'll go back after i fill the truck and grade the trench with the back bucket to get it ready for asphalt when the truck comes back with the asphalt the laborers will wheel-barrel the mix and I'll clean up anything leftover and start preparing for the next day. I don't know if you were looking for step by step instructions, but I think that reading this may give you some insight into different ways to tackle a project like this from my operating point of view.
Yeah it is nice to see it from the operators point of view, thats the way I wanted to do it, stripping the asphalt first, but the other crew was saying oh well just grab it after, of course it made a big mess afterwards.
That is a good idea to keep the windrow a few feet out. sounds like your system is pretty efficient. your laborers must love you.
Thanks for the compliment excav8r. Some of it is trial and error, but mostly it's learning from the old timers. Though I'm always open to try something new. It makes a big difference when you have a good system down. I try to make it easy on my laborers, and in turn, their always making life easier for me. Now and again I'll get a s***bum laborer and I'll make him shovel more than he has to. But I always remember my machine powers through hydraulics theirs powers through blood. Hope you didn't mind the soapbox rant.
Probably a dumb question but does anyone use ground penetrating radar to bid jobs? It should show steel plate and give depth of pavement/concrete. Saw some rentals on the web.
This is a good read. I'm new to the forum but it sounds to me like when the GC calls you need to tell him you want all the specs and the address and you need to go and inspect the site and have a one call locate done before you agree to a price, and include a unforseen circimstaces clause in your bid. Also you said that you rented a backhoe if you can rent a hoe you should be just as easy to rent a mini with a thumb and breaker to dig with? Was the other hoe the GC's ? Were all those laborors yours that you were paying , if so why so many? Can you go to the bank or someone and get the money to finish paying for the dump truck? Also sounds like you need to consult your dad on some of the bidding and contracting issues since he has some experience in that. I think you can go to a office supply store and purchase a standard form of agreement documents that might work well for you also?
I would also say the next time the GC call U go to the local DPW and ask them what the street is like i am sure they have dug in the same area that u where digging in and should have a idea of what the conditions are. Also if there is a inspector there what he think of the conditions ??? Hope this may help the next time.
good advice diggerdave1958
Hey Aliate, I passed by your job today and it is finished. The saw cutting is a digrace, you were totally right about that, and like I said before your job started at the corner that I ripped up about 2 years earlier I am surprised they let you work there during daylight hours.:drinkup
haha thats great that you saw it, yeah like I said the GC used his crew to finish the job, because Im assuming hes getting a MUCH higher rate than what he was giving me. Take some pictures for me if you pass by there again. Ive been keeping busy since then doing the small stuff.
Aliate- what you need is a mentor someone local or close by that can meet with you often and give you advice on building a business. As most anyone can tell you that has been in business, the part of running equipment whether it be a saw or an excavator is the easiest part although not necessarily easy. (Please, no offense intended to all the great operators out there... I have operated equipment just enough to know that I don't know anything about operating equipment). It is just that the business part is so very important. It sounds to me like on that trenching deal you could have worked for free (Your Labor) and had the GC pick up the other expenses and been way ahead. Your arrangement is no way to run a business. Add up the total cost of that truck. It sound real expensive. There are kids that run a paper route and do better. Sorry to be critical..I have made the same kind of mistakes (Only more because I'm older) If only I could go back and redo. The way this computer stuff is going maybe in the future we will have a backspace and spell check on life. Read everything you can on business as well as your chosen trade. If I was the excavation business (retired builder now running a side business in metal fabrication) I would read every post on HEF. This is a excellent source of help. You should read as much as you can every night it might save you allot of mistakes. And those could be very costly mistakes. And ask questions!!! What a bunch of nice guys here on HEF that will answer any question they can. Good Luck.
I was by that site 2 weeks ago driving by. Its typical GC knows somebody young and robs him all the way to the bank. Just curious how did you epect to make money at 30lf in NJ based on your crew of 12 labores, 2 operators, 2 machines, dump truck , and misc tools your cost should be : 6100 for Lab. 1300 for OE. 700 for dump plus all your other stuff misc tools, saw, compressor, laser, etc.. your cost schould be about 10,000 a day i assme this either union or pervailing wage job? what about traffic control cones signs cops? My genarl rule of thumb in NJ is 4000-4500 for 2 laborers, OE with a machine, Forman and tools (typical Crew) and everthing else is excluded,
Rereading this thread makes me laugh now, I always tell my wife about that nightmare....I went out of business 2 years after that, I just decided to call it quits, because of finances and my brother and fathers involvement in business. I have since moved across the country, got married, expecting my first child and am saving money to start a new business the right way. I am also working with a very large utility company so I am learning to do utilities the RIGHT way. We were digging 8in mainline sewer with a link belt 460 this week and I am the top man. I hope everyone gets some entertainment out of this thread. I tell my co workers I was running a crew (or at least I thought I was) digging in downtown jersey city through steel plates at 22 yrs old and they don't believe me lol...
Glad to hear you have picked up the pieces and are getting on well. I wish you the best when you go for it again. You will have a lot of experience so as to not make the same mistakes over again.
Good to hear from you again, Aliate. Sound like life is good for you, Married and a child good for you.
Thanks guys all is well and soon enough I will redeem myself!
See you're in Seattle now, hope you're enjoying this push of work we're getting. Sure is nice to see things start taking off again. And welcome to the Wet Coast.
I'm actually on a job up the road from you on mukiteo speedway, and this is some pretty nice October weather!
Been a weird fall here too. Should have snow by now, but its been in the 40s!
I should update my profile, bought a house in Marysville last year. Working downtown, got into the tower crane gig, way more fun.
Good for U ! We all learn from our mistakes. Anyone who tackles NJ city streets at 22-23 yrs old is a man with steel balls and a good worker in my book . U will be kicking ass and taking names in no time with the experience your building up. Good luck.
Glad to hear you're doing alright!
Aliate, good to see your doing alright, its all about experience
So another update for you guys. I just read through this entire thread and it still makes me laugh. I am two years into my second business and its going much better. Hope everyone else is doing well.
Delighted for you do keep us up dated.............