I'm sure this topic has been hashed over a couple hundred times, but I'm new here. I am curious to know what the best diesel is according to you. For ease of argument, lets concentrate on pre-2003 made engines. I suppose the criteria would include longevity, ease of obtaining parts, manufacturer support, power/torque, and several other things I can't think of..
Cummins -- Big Cam 350 Meets and or exceeds all your criteria
3406B cat
If we include all diesels, how about the Int. 7.3 turbo as found in 2000-2003 Fords?
350 Mack. Minus the dealer support and parts availability lol.
5.9L cummins, 89-07 Dodge ram. Alot of external changes, but the engine itself... almost 2 decades of consistant strength and reliability.
I second the 5.9 cummins I have a 2005 dodge with 450,000 miles and still on original injectors. I also have a tractor with the 5.9 it has 13,000 hours and never opened it up either. The 7.3 is a good motor but they have no torque on the lower end where the cummins has good torque through the range.
4-71 jimmy. tough as hell, and when they puke, cheap n easy to fix.
In short, there is NO Consensus! I agree with Qball about the 71 and 53 series Detroits, for the reasons given, and I have had great luck with the L10 Cummins.
Its a toss up between any 2 stroke detroit and the 3406b
QUOTE-I suppose the criteria would include longevity, ease of obtaining parts, manufacturer support, power/torque, and several other things I can't think of.. If all included- 35-40 hp -3 cyl Perkins in 35 & 135 Massey Ferguson farm tractors-
3406 Cat Mechanical Version. The 3306 is a good one also, as they last a long time in a piece of equipment
I'd say that any 2 stroke detroit would be cheap and easy to repair. The equipment that I used to work on was Cummins Compressed Natural Gas and was a headache to work on and keep running. It seems to me that the simpler it is the easier it is to keep running. The Cummins CNG is not user friendly and cheap to keep on the road. Lots of check engine lites.
I'm a two stroke Detroit guy myself, but Mack, Cat, and Cummins have all built excellent engines also.
I don't want to ruffle feathers....but.. I HATE 2-stroke Detroits. Gutless loud pigs. Sure, they run forever and a few days besides, but how I hate them.. I vote for any air-cooled Duetz. Any opinion on a late 80s 6068 Deere?
The Screamin' Jimmys get bonus points in my book because they sound soooooo cool!
Perkins 3.152 and variants - over 50 years production. Speaks for itself. They probably have it on the numbers as well.
AD 152 Perkins. And 5.9 cummins get my votes!
I am lucky to play with just about every size and style engine in common use, the Perkins engines (CAT) are very well built and must be the cheapest engines about to rebuild, the 3 cylinder 152 unit can have new piston/liners (sleaves) bearings and gaskets for about £230, some people call them "Ships Anchors" but not on this side of the Pond, in numbers alone they would be way ahead possibly double ahead of any other engine, the CAT 333c and 3306 unit is a very simple unit, they like to come to bits every few years, again this engine is cheap to repair with Non OE parts that are of good quality and you dont need any fancy tools to tackle them generaly, Cummins L10/M11 and Big Cam 14 litre engines are built using a now common style fuel type system "common rail" the Cummins pressure time (PT) fuel system is a great design item the Jacob's Brake is something that should be fitted by Law to every Diesel built, but the engine is fairly technical in its construction, its the small details that make them run well, this realy takes them outside the average Saterday afternoon spanner man scope, I hear on this Forum lots of 5/6 inch pound talk????, the Detroit thing I dont understand as all the 53 and 71 series engines I have worked on are fairly complex, the last unit I touched was a V16-71 this is 2 V8's poked together, 4 valve head plus all those turbo's and blowers and a cam shaft running at crank speed, then liners with about ten different fit spec's, the average fitter would be well out of his patch, a very famous engine from the past in the U.K. was the Gardner 180 and 240 this was a real Gaffer's engine good on fuel and ran for ever, it had shrouds on the inlet valves, the injector pump was a thing to admire, but they came from a time now gone into the past, Duetz engines the air cooled sort are great and stong runners, the blower fan only has to shift 1/3rd of the wind of a water cooled engine to keep its self running in the green, they are well built and well liked by anyone that has run them, but the little 3 pot Perkins has to be king of all it does, its only a small engine but has great Heart.
For the Detroit lovers.. [video=youtube;vQXZSgDN9uA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQXZSgDN9uA[/video] [video=youtube;VkZjr0IJwtg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkZjr0IJwtg[/video] [video=youtube;1fS43WnFGWs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fS43WnFGWs&NR=1[/video]
Ruffle all the feathers you want oldtimer, for horspower per weight it's gotta be the 3406 cat. For the ability to run in the worst conditions, with every compression ring broke,it's got to be the 71 seires detriot it,s still willing to run. I cant think of to many aplications a detriot diesle wasn't found.
I don't think anyone else can compare to the number of engines built and the longevity of production of the inline 6-71 screemer, they were in constant production from 1939 to 1999, can't seem to nail down the production numbers but it has to be a bunch. They seem to run a long time, simple design, and sound good too. I have owned 100s of engines and none compare to the 6-71.
71 and 53 series Detroits and the 466 ih
I have to say the 3406e cat ( not the c-15) they will make awesome amounts of power in stockish form and can be a million mile motor pretty easily. Im a big fan of the 3406b and they can last a long time but need bearings fairly regularly (I do mine at 250k).
Toyota 4 litre turbo EFI cruiser motor is one of mine but a perkins 354 cos you cant kill em! Another would be a 3406E seem to keep going with great power. Worst well I would have to say any Nissan Navara before the latest one. Also to all those who say GM has the best sound, I beg to differ, the gold medal has to go to a 903 Cummins.
Well; The Cat 3406 for pull, Cummins 903 for sound, GM'S 53/71 series for no power and the best terrorist sound ever, Perkins cheap to run and reliable, V8 Duetz went for ever with no water, Cats= Can push and pull Cummins= Can only pull
The 3406 B's was fitted into Foden Trucks in the U.K. the promotion trucks being painted black with the title "Black CAT", they were quickly taken up by the heavy haulage boys and were common to see hooked up to low-load trailers, the 450HP motor was the One to Have, but they did suffer a bit with water pump aggro, CAT fitted a plastic impellor on the pumps that would get loose on the shaft as soon as a good bank (hill) was climbed, the fitting of an iron job sorted this out but it took a bit of time to realize what was going wrong, most truck engines were fitted with the Jacobs Brake, but I also had a customer with the Blue Ox? retarder,I loved these motors but the Scania V8's would have them for dead on any bank as the complete drive line was all Scania built, the D8N had the 3406 in, I dont think it was the best use of the engine???
Well, from a mining equipment standpoint, here are my personal opinions on specific engines used in one particualr mine, in no particular order: -All of the older equipment ran air cooled Deutz, from 4 cylinr up to v12s. I have to say they are one tough engine, and will take a lot of abuse. BUT... they fall short in local support and parts pricing, very expensive to repair. -Cat 3406 (Ithink), very reliable, dont remember ever having to get support or replace anything on the engine. Downfall to these particular engine for underground use was emmissions, but then again, we are talking older generation engines. -Detroit 50 series- Quite reliable, inexpensive to repair, excellent support, but I do remember some problems with them. I wouldnt call them bulletproof, although they were pretty good overall. -Deutz liquid cooled B4fl series- engine itself seemed ok, but had ECM issues, no local support, parts or labor- would not use if I could avoid it. -Cummins QSB series-(note that they are all 2005 and later engines)- very reliable, I do not recall any issues that were not self inflicted by the miners (hydraulic oil in the fuel tank). Local support is great for service and parts. I would not hesitate to use Cummins. I worked for NY state for a short while, all of their large truck engines were Cummins until recently when they started buying Mack Trucks. The Cummins engine were pretty trouble free there also. I dont have much good to say about Mack in general, but I had not seen any major problems with them either unless you count the 3 year old engine with a rust hole through the engine block. keep in mind, this is personal observation, from my own experience. My opinion to answer your question, would be Cummins.
Don't worry about feathers. They'll grow back. Don't drive them Detroits like Cats. Detroits and Stihl chain saws only have power with the throttle BURIED. As far as the 6068's don't know too much about them but the JD 466's in the 8820 combines had to have some mods so they wouldn't start so easy in cold weather. My Dad runs a repair shop and he loves rebuilding them Jimmies. He says the tolerances on a rebuilt Detroit are much like a worn out Cummins. My own favs would probably the old Deere two cylinder. I also liked the QSX Cummins but they were very hard on fuel and had little lugging power.
Most straight 6 diesels run pretty smooth , and I have found them reliable . Most V whatever have been not so good except for 2 stroke detroit . I was told when I started driving detroits you " drive them like you hate them " and I must admit I do like the sound of them
I was realy impressed with the Iveco engines I had one 4cy turbo go over 700,000 miles without the head comming off. I had a few 6cy that went over 500k miles Most trucks were delivery trucks The ford DEALERS took care of parts up until about 1990, I sold a one to Hatti afew years back and it's still running. The engines were built by fiat. They failed to pass emissions arround 1990 so that stopped the importing of the trucks.