Well, out of morbid curiosity I listened in on a conversation between two seasoned oil and gas industry truck pushers debating who builds the "best, most reliable" vocational tractors for tandem and belly dump service. They are looking at purchasing 20 tractors, some with wet kits and 4 tandem dumps. The brands being considered is Mack, Western Star and KW. This will be mostly for transporting aggregate from pits to well location pad builds. Mostly highway service to unimproved locations. Also hauling equipment with a lowboy. No mountains but several thousand feet rolling elevation changes. Just as a conversation piece any thoughts from members.
Irc Western star 47xx was the most common answer but have a look at this thread, availability is also a thing. HeavyEquipmentForums
Considering there are about three choices and they've picked those, probably a fleet of Mack Stars.
In reality all these trucks are proven designs over the years. For me it would be more about what dealer support you have in that particular area for parts and service. It also looks like a decision with those 3 a preference for a Mack engine, Detroit Engine, or Cummins engine.
For my own curiosity what make would you consider?
Well there are plenty of Western Stars here for sale as well as on Truck Paper. 341 2025-26 Star car dumps on TP to be exact. 15 in AL alone. Just sayin'
Stars. Freightliner/Western Star has more dealers and parts inventory than any other brand. The options for all variations of 47X, 49X & 57X are long. My old company just ordered two 49X's with sleepers and drop axles, reason--Freightliner dropped the option of no side fairings. 47/49x's are considered vocational but both can also be had OTR equipped, plus it keeps the company standardized with the DD15/DT12/ Mercedes drivetrain they have been using the last 20 years. * The 8 Kenworth's the company bought 4.5 years ago have plagued with issues, cost of parts and availability is another reason. But those red engines just don't cut it mileage wise, the reliability in that area hasn't been great either. One setting in Portland at this time with oiling/ crank/cam issues. Out of all the DD15's the company has owned which is 125 plus only one had major engine failure due to broken crank which was determined as defective and covered under warranty with a complete new engine, zero cost. Only had one DT12 replaced-warranty. Lost a total of four drive axle units front section, two warranted.
I do notice a lot of new/late model Western Star tri-drive loggers through our area...just a hobbyist but find this an interesting topic....
Same here. 2 large paving/aggregate companies have been replacing their KW's with Stars. Same with a large local redi-mix outfit. Star Cars are all over the place here. This one is a beauty - Pardon Our Interruption
Me if take a c500 twin steer, just saying
49X is the current answer.
Ten years ago, this was the way.
Kenworth ran out of room in the dash of the B cab for anymore technology, it was the reason for T990 series. Pete cabs have the same issue. The KW-B cab came on the scene in 1982, way out lived it's life span.
Weyerhauser was Kenworth since forever but lately they've been buying Stars. At least I think that's what they are. All brands look the same these days, have to look at the badge on the hood to find out what it is.
This could be another option once they get their dealer network sorted
I was going to say Euro-spec Volvo, Scania, or Merc in any order you want to pick 'em........
Not until they have major coast to coast dealers. One reason Ford trucks never made a big splash on the west coast very few Ford authorized dealer repair shops. Scania makes big power but the other issue is no one wants cab overs.
Freightliners percentage is showing 32% but with WS combined it's 37% plus. * The Market Share Battle: PACCAR Loses Ground to Freightliner During Freight Recession New Q2 2025 data reveals PACCAR's continued market share decline against Freightliner's steady gains. research.runalphaloop.com
Number of Freightliner locations in the USA in 2025 | ScrapeHero There are 840 Freightliner locations in the United States as of October 07, 2025. The state/territory with the most number of Freightliner locations in the US is Texas with 98 locations, which is 11% of all Freightliner locations in America. www.scrapehero.com
Why are cabovers so unpopular in the US? Here KW is still quite popular, Mack used to be with the Ultra Liner, Frightliners to but European trucks are becoming like A holes, most pulling B dubs and road train combos and all cabovers.
Cabovers only make sense with regulation, once the regulation was dropped truckers like regular trucks better
Several reasons, years ago COE's were the common because of bridge laws, length, weight. Plus most shippers/ receivers were operating out of facilities built in the 20's when a trailer was 30', inner city docks required short wheel base units. Most all of that has disappeared. Plus these days the interstate infrastructure is old now, rough. No one wants to spend hour after hour getting beat to death in a cab over, plus with the amount of traffic accidents most all want a engine and frame out front. For those gone a month at a time trying to live in a cabover is not enticing, especially if it's husband/wife team. But there is a huge difference in highway infrastructure between Australia and US. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_road_network_size
Personally I would buy the westen star if I was pushed to a new truck. Western star does some things that after owning multiple trucks makes sense for off highway use. They put a longer narrower fuel tank to give better ground clearance, the air tanks were between the frame rails to keep them out of the way for hanging axles and what not from the outside of the frame. The battery boxes are up high and forward of the tanks keeping the battery cables short and better ground clearance. Exhaust up under the cab for better clearance. Not to mention the logger style bumper is just awsome.
In the 70's and 80's the large gravel haulers used Mack. You see few here today. There is only one big operator here now as the oil field is slow. They are using mostly Freightliners. Halliburton has many older Kenworths.
White originally started Western Star in 1967, built in Kelowna BC. Stars were built for on/off road and OTR. Western Stars going all the way back had a mixture of White and White Freightliner ideas. The original round/flanged crossmembers were kind of unique plus the fact WS used 110 grade frame rail. Narrow fuel tanks was always a WS thing, the only strange was the multi elbowed exhaust. *
Halliburton has a bunch of them without the drop and sleeper.
The original/earliest of Wester Star, you can see White concept written all over it. And a White 4000.
And in 2025 it's Daimler controlling Freightliner controlling Western Star. There is alot of Freightliner ideas built into Western Star.
3.58 rears for a dump truck?
Interesting table TS. We have 430 thousand km paved road. You have 4.3 million km paved road. For very roughly same area land mass.
By what I could find Australia has a population of 28 million vs 330 million U.S., and California has 39 million by it's self.
Considering the two DT12 AMT low & top gear ratio's. Number 1 has a lowest gear ratio of 18.80 with a top gear of 1.00 direct drive. Number 2 has a lowest gear ratio of 14.56 with a top gear of 0.78 overdrive. Plus four gears in reverse. * Our OTR's have a final drive of 3.05, there even higher ratio's of 2.70 & 2.41. * A standard set of ratio's for a 18913A thirteen speed Eaton is. Lowest gear ratio of 12.31, 1st gear ratio of 8.64, with a top gear ratio of 0.78. Common highway final drive ratios of 3.55 & 3.70, with vocational around 3.90/4.33. With a X15 Cummins or C15 cat. * Torque range of DD15 starts at 975 rpm @ 1,500 ft lbs torque and climbs to 1500 rpm @ 1,800 ft lbs. Will have a low set idle of 500 rpm. Has low rise torque curve from 975 to 1,500. Cruises @ 1,300 rpm in twelfth gear at 67 mph with 3.08's. * Dirty Harry said--{A mans got to know his gear boxes}.
Agreed, that was sort of what I was saying. Roughly same land mass area, 10x less roads and population.
I was looking at the dt 12 specs last night, trying to find the gear ratios. I figured that they would have to have a low first to live with that 3.58.
I would hate to have to make this decision but like others have said DEALER SUPPORT would big a big deal for me.
dDo you know that Autocar, is once again building vocational trucks? They may have a pretty good dealer network, as they have built cabover chassis for garbage trucks, for many years. Thse existing dealers will likely handle the vocational truck parts and service.
DC-64D's Cummins powered, 495 locations as secondary lines at various Kenworth, IH & independent shops. I think a total of 25 brick/mortar. It's probably a good truck, what would limit it is what's under the hood.
I was behind the wheel of a new Autocar DC in my recent search for new trucks and it felt and sounded like I was in an old DK64. Was very simple inside and probably going to prove to be very reliable with how much it seemed to lack compared to the other brands with standard bells and whistles. Could see most of the wiring harness and its routing and securement looked better than most other brands I shopped. Cummins engines and a few options of transmission on the ones id seen. Nice looking trucks but priced the same as the competitors while ride and cab noise brings you back to the 80s.
Autocar started building Brass Era cars in 1897, trucks started in 1899. It is the oldest vehicle manufacture in US. * Western Star has come along ways, those trucks posted above, back in those days cab/hood/ trim parts were very hard to get from WS dealers, WS had no real back stock inventory.
They are built/put together a couple miles north of our Cat dealers main office. Not surprisingly the Cat dealer is also an Autocar dealer. I would consider buying one being made nearby and sold by a dealer I trust but all the bad press here about the newer Cummins engines gives hesitation. TS you have sold me on a Detroit and my guys like them as well.
Is Oshkosh too specialized ? I see a bunch of the front discharge mixers around. They don't make a plain C&C ?
No, they do not make regular cab and chassis trucks for vocational use anymore.
There is no great only better, both engines are susceptible to any manner of issues. The most common Detroit has improved on, Cummins is still lagging it seems.
Oskosh & FWD are specialized.