A while back I posted about being denied warranty on my truck for a known problem (leaking oil pan and timing cover). The warranty would have expired right in the middle of the stay at recommendations. I called today and left a message for the manager (who was away) to call me. Half an hour later got a text from the assistant service manager I had dealt with asking if this was the number to call me, yes. Got another text if I can take a call, yes. She calls me and says she has good news. Manager who came back saw that I was approved for the maintainence agreement but not for the warranty. He contacted the Ford regional rep. who agreed... How they cover one but not the other. Oil leaks are covered 100% under warranty! Whoo hoo!! Here's the interesting part. The assistant service manager went on about filling out a survey after the work was done. She said it was nothing to do with Ford but was basically a report card on how the dealer treated you. It would used to evaluate the performance of the service writer I had. I was kind of biting my tongue at this point because the parts were ordered. The service writer wrote down the number I gave him to call me when I first took the truck in. He called the wrong number. I mentioned to the assistant service manager but he called the other number they have on file 2 more times. It used to be our home number but is now my partners cell number. The last time she told him to call the number I gave him. He couldn't even properly read the reasons why Ford denied the warranty. The assistant service manager was even worse. She was supposed to be contacting me regarding Ford's decision but instead had the service writer give me the bad news. When I called her back she said once Ford says no, there's nothing they can do. I said I hope I don't need to get legal advice and she said I'd being going up against Fords entire legal team. I called another dealer who said the least they could do is apply is apply for an AWA (after warranty assistance) where the costs are split. When I called her back she said that wasn't available. It's available to every dealer. Today she was like a different person and happy to have good news. I really don't think she wants me to fill out the survey, especially if I'm honest about my experience with her. It would have been much better to have told me the manager is away instead of trying to handle it herself. She did say all the decisions were up to her when he was away. Brutal customer service skills.
I wouldn't fill out the survey until my truck was fixed, then, I'd be honest. Whoever it goes to probably won't know if you don't.
Will definitely wait till truck is fully repaired. They don't know it yet but they lost a customer for all the BS they put me through. Even to book the service they didn't know they had to get approval from Ford not me. That wasted a week. Funny how after I left a message for the manager, she calls me back and said she was going to call me right away when she saw it was approved.
Glad to see you are getting what is owed to you. If you have any social media. I would tell your story on every platform. That dealer has a Facebook account, Twitter account, and whatever other kind of social media. That's where you should tell your story and answer the survey.
The dealerships are terrible nowadays, at least the ones I hear about. They don't seem to be in any real contact with the vehicle makers for the cars they sell. Any problems are completely brand new to them and of course they can't do anything about them (even though you can go onto various forums to find others with exactly the same issues). And they base their lives on those dumb surveys. My last service writer for just an oil change and a couple new tires seemed like a good guy, he was helpful, informative, and got me a few bucks off the tires. However after the service was complete he showed me the form saying whomever will contact me with the survery, "please fill out all 5's and excellents." I thought that was pretty crazy. I'll fill out the form as I see fit, if I fill it out. The amount of emphasis every retailer now puts on reviews has gone insane.
I'm curious if the assistant service manager told the whole story to the manager (COO) who looked after it for me. He apologized a few times for it being such a cluster. Maybe it got out that I hoped I didn't have to get legal advice or go to the media???
The media would have been a good route. Legal would not be, and in your case to bring it up to them would have been a very bad decision. Most big companies have the attitude of bring it on, they can afford much better lawyers, unless they are 1000% in the wrong they generally won't back down if it's brought up. I had to sue a dealer here over warranty, and they caved immediately the GM of the dealership called me and bent over backwards to give me whatever I wanted. But when I threatened it to the manager, they laughed and said go right ahead even though it was 1000% clear I was right and they were wrong. And as far as legalities are concerned, the whole stay at home order means absolutely nothing to the court unless a order was granted extending timelines for things like that (there wasn't). It's good they finally stepped up and took care of it though.
Had(Key word) a 1995 Sea Ray 250, 454(carb), Bravo 3, nice small cruiser we could weekend in, we thought. First ride in it the salesman drove it like a sport boat but response was weird. We accepted it as had ordered it and went about use while we stored the unit AT the marina bought from. Long story short, had operability issues, B3 outdrive pushed the boat hard and fast enough it would plane out like a bass boat on last 2-3' of hull(Unstable as crap) and then would roll off the keel onto the hull V side flat either side just whichever was in the mood for, skip along until broke suction or I backed out and would go back to keel. Tabs response was Diddly Squat even at full down. Service Mgr told us, "Nature of the Beast" where they had the lower unit off several times trying to decrease the issue to some point. The last big issue was it tossed a trunnion cap while we were Up Lake at the Lake of the Ozarks, old school I motored the boat back to our dock without touching the throttle until close in at the dock. Service tried to bill me claimed for hitting something but NO lower or Prop damage noted, no nicks or marks at all, just repeat service records of their in and outs with the lower unit. Young gal from Phoenix got the dubious distinction of calling us DAYS Later, I answered the phone on Sea Ray Customer Satisfaction Opinion survey, she got a FULL Ear full, apologized to her as only a peon as I but let it all fly especially the "Beast" comment. Company VP was on the phone in fifteen minutes to us, was 'Going to make this right' and eventually did. Went to a lower pitch prop set(lowered speed) pulled the 12" stern tabs, had the shop repair the glass, then installed 28" wide twin cylinder tabs, seems at speed the 12" tabs would not extend far enough to even contact water until rolled then worked to stick it where it was, added 250 pounds ballast under the fuel tank(Midship). ALL No Charge, ALL Extended as to warranty for a full year past the OE. Dealer has since changed hands three times. Boat went away in 2003 for a 280 Four Winns Horizon.
I told the assistant service manager that I hope I don't have to get legal advice. She basically said go ahead, I'd be going up against Fords entire legal time. Your dealership too princess. It would not look good for Ford or the dealership to deny warranty due to stay at home recommendations. The fact I live with someone who works at a facility that had a positive Covid case and didn't lift restrictions until June 29 only strengthens my case.
It would not look good for them for sure, but big difference between that and legal aspect. Legally, it wouldn't mean anything. Their lawyers would tear the argument apart and justify it was merely an excuse. The only argument you'd get away with covid going on is if you were in the hospital unable to do any means of communication for months.
I sued a small foreign car shop in small claims court after they completely screwed up a camshaft replacement (and they were dragging their feet on the repair.) Long story short I won the case but the shop declared bankruptcy. So I got a judgment in my favor but no money, however it provided at least some satisfaction. One other comment - the "we've never heard of that problem before" is a stock phrase in their playbook. I've heard that before when it's clearly an intrinsic problem with the product.
Legally if it went to court the judge would decide. They don't want people going anywhere if they have any symptoms from a cough to a sore throat to a sneeze. Don't think the dealer would want anyone that I lives with someone who works in a positive covid facility going in. I was protecting the dealer and their customers. It's not going to court but I can't see a judge being sympathetic with them under the circumstances. Ford even acknowledges that they will give customers a reasonable opportunity to receive the intended benefits of their warranties. I can see if I was 6 month's after the time limit and 20,000kms. past the mileage but I was 8 month's under the 5 years and approx. 1% over the mileage on the 5 year/100,000km. powertrain warranty. I think there should be new laws for recalls that aren't necessarily safety related issues. When there's multiple problems with the same thing, OEM's should be required to correct them. The oil pan leaks especially with at least 3 TSB's where Ford admits they didn't use enough RTV gasket material in the assembly. The larger Eco Boost's also have problems with leaking oil pans.
If you showed them that you were serious and actually sued. Their lawyers will advise them to do the repairs. It would cost them more money for the lawyers to answer the suit.
Yeah, I think if it came down to it a carefully worded letter from a lawyer would convince them they should do the repairs.
Yes a judge would decide based on the law and facts, judges are NOT sympathetic. There is a reason when this covid came in there was some emergency orders given to how it would change rights to things. It wasn't going to be a free for all of people coming in trying to play the covid card for anything and everything. A judge would make a order against their own mother if the facts supported it. It's a common misconception. I've spent way more time in dealing with the courts in the last few years then i'd like to and have been in plenty of courtrooms and seeing people trying to play the sympathy card. It doesn't work EVER if the sympathy would hurt the other party. Their argument would be very simple. You did not have to go anywhere. You just had to make a call or email to a dealership or Ford to let them know the situation and know to proceed before warranty was up, if that happened then legally they'd be on the hook. You have to prove without a doubt the problem happened before the warranty expired, again unless you could do that, screwed. They don't have to prove squat. I'm glad you got it covered. But I just don't want someone to see it and think "oh i'm going to threaten to sue them" because it will end badly for them in a situation like this. They will spend whatever money it takes defending in most cases because they don't want one that sets a precedent for many more future cases to base off of it. Unless it's a last ditch effort before you give up, threatening to sue a massive company is a bad idea unless you have a air tight case absolutely no one could ever dream of poking a hole in and got lots of money to back it up.
Wanna bet? Look up how many lawsuits are won by someone other then a large company going after a auto manufacturer for denying warranty work. They won't risk a precedent being set. And it's not about how much it costs to settle compared to how much it costs to fight it in something like this. Yes if someone fell outside Ford's headquarters and sued for breaking their leg, they'd probably settled instead of fighting and look at it from purely a dollars standpoint. But not when if they pay out one person for denied warranty, 100,000 more are lined up for the same thing. They want to crush it like a bug and scare off anyone else from trying to do it. Even IF you are in the right, sometimes it comes down to who can afford the better lawyers. If you got $100k+ to spend you got a pretty good chance if you got a really good case. If you don't got deep pockets, you're not going to win no matter what. They will drag it out until you run out of money and/or give up.
There is talk about a class action suit against Ford for the leaking oil pans. I know you don't take the covid too seriously but a lot of people do. You have no idea how serious a judge would take it. Courts were closed because of it. What makes going to a car dealer different? Some owners have had 5 or 6 replacements. At least 3 TSB's where Ford admits they didn't use enough RTV sealant. The fact the earlier TSB's didn't correct problem also goes against Ford. Also a memo sent to dealers that Ford will give customers a reasonable time to receive the benefits of their warranties. In this case I think news of it going to court could lead to a string of other cases for the same problem and it is a big problem. Doing the right thing and approving it for warranty does more to keep it out of the news and public eye. It's not an isolated problem. I have proof the problem didn't exist at the last service done by the dealer in Sep. at 90,461kms. I had no reason to belive anything was wrong. The chance the leaks started 1200kms. past warranty is pretty slim considering it's a wide spread problem. Ford is probably happy this isn't the 6th oil pan they've had to do under warranty. I saved them a lot money.
It has been many years since I swore off Ford vehicles because of bad service. Last Ford was a new 3/4 ton van. It came with summer Load range E tires. I wanted snows on rear. The dealer agreed to switch for a small fee. When I discovered they were installing Load Range C, I told the guy to stop. I discussed it with the owner, he argued I wouldn't need to carry that much weight. "Then why would I need an 8600 LB van? It all went downhill from there. No rear brakes from day one. Warranty was 36000 miles. They replaced rear brakes 3 times under warranty. They would get rusty, but zero evidence the brake shoes had touched the inside of the drums. There was a constant knock, sounded like a spark knock, but all the time. 14 rounds of replacing engine components, it persisted. At one point they presented me with an official looking document from the Windsor Ontario engine plant, certifying the noise was a "normal" sound made by the air pump. I asked how this could be? "My engine doesn't have an air pump." The Service Manager assured me "They all have an air pump." "Would you show me mine?" He grabbed a creeper, walked to the truck, slid under. "Well you're right sir. You don't have an air pump!" "Then how is it making noise?" They replaced the engine. The knock continued. A year later I was servicing the transmission & discovered two missing bolts on a heat shield. New bolts quieted the knock. In 36000 miles that vehicle spent 28 overnights in service department for warranty work.
Willie ; That is amazing but sad. Real sad.
I haven't owned a Ford since, but my 2001 GMC/ Quigley 4 X 4 conversion van got a Dana front axle common in Ford trucks. It was a recurring dream of failed universal joints worn out brakes, those PFing caliper holders Two pieces of angle steel with rubber between. They had to be replaced each oil change or the brakes clattered like my 1976 Ford Granada. Steering components had to be replaced at 20,000 mile intervals, or it steered like a Ford. It even rode like a Ford. I would tell people about the eight pound bag phone on the dash clearing the dash three times every time I hit a small bump. I never did find a shock absorber able to tame that front suspension.