I currently work in residential construction but on the management side of things. I understand that OSHA requires a license to operate a crane. With this being said I know obtaining that would be one of my first obstacles among other items such as determining the market demand in my area, training, insurance, funding for purchasing a crane and being able to transport it. But my main question is does anyone here know or have heard of anyone operating a crane business with only a spydercrane? The largest one I would consider is the UNIC URW 547. I feel like there would be a niche for these smaller cranes but I have not found much info online regarding this type of niche. This leads me to believe that either there is not much demand or those in this niche are staying quiet hoping not to add any new computation to this lucrative niche. I currently live near Montgomery (20min roughly). I am very close to Lake Martin, then Columbus Ga is not far, Birmingham Al is about 1.5 hours away and I’m 45min from Auburn Al. Because of Auburn University between their constant development and private development for student living there is a lot of work. Auburn is a bubble. Without doing a market analysis (obviously I would complete one before investing into this) I feel like I would be in a good area to start a business like the one I’m describing but like I said there is not much info out there on services like this. At the moment this is an idea for retirement, some of y’all may think I’m crazy for not wanting to retire but I know I will develop cabin fever. My wife had surgery, I was on leave for a week while she recovered. Yeah I was ready to go back, not because of caring for her but I was at the house all day long. I found out that when you don’t work you can easily forget what day it is ! I have heard that some offer a day rate snd others offer by the hour and normally charge a 3-4 hour min. Any thoughts, insight and opinions will be much appreciated.
If you're not an operator already, this is a bad idea. Nobody is going to want to pay for you to get experience and no insurer is interested either. Granted, you are not getting too extravagant with a spider but you can wreck plenty of stuff and kill somebody just fine. Secondly, spider crane work is largely hanging glass where I have worked and the glaziers have their own spiders and operator/ironworkers. I have hung the glass the spiders could not reach before. They would much rather hang their own when they can.
Boom truck. Young fella here worked for a local boom truck company. They were more of an industrial company, and while they would rent out to private, they kept more to their own jobs. They got out of boom trucks. He bought one, and now he has 3. He does everything commercial, private. He also has a cherry picker, and I noticed he bought a delivery truck like the building supplies have with the forks on the boom.
You would have much more work with a boom truck as cuttin edge recommends. Spider work is super specialized and I just don't think you would stay busy with one. The spyder really shines in a area with a lot of large buildings with small access. Think of putting the crane in a service elevator to the top of a 30 story building, for chiller repair. Or going inside a shopping mall to hang items in a atrium. I can remember two jobs in the last 10 years where a spyder would have been nice. One of the jobs we were able to get a carry deck into. The other one they rented a spyder from chicago or st. louis. There are a couple places that specialize in bare rental of spyders, but they are established crane bare rental companies, so they have contacts that its going to take you a while to get. As far as operating a spyder, they are slow as he** and I don't think anyone will notice at all if you are a newby operator, because after you run it a little while you'll be as competent and fast as its possible to be running a spyder. But, they aren't terrible expensive, one isn't going to take a large shop to store it in. Doesn't take a 50 ton lowboy to haul it around on. Sort of a "mini" excavator for the crane field. But I don't think the spyder industry is a "lucrative niche opportunity" that no one else has discovered yet. I've looked at buying one, but I just don't think there is enough work for one. And because you don't have any experience, I don't see a crane insurance company taking you on, and you won't be able to just hide it under your current "construction" business general liability policy. And the hourly or daily rate is going to sound like a lot of money, but if you do get insurance the quote is going to surprise you- if all you've worked is residential. It wouldn't shock me to see a quote on your desk for over $30,000 for just the spyder for the year. Frankly, if I was looking at equipment for a retirement gig, I think if you bought a couple mini exes, a couple track skid loaders, and two dump trailers, you could open a rental business and just rent out the equipment. There's a guy near me that just started a small construction dumpster business, with a gooseneck trailer behind a pickup for deliveries. If you have to do cranes- I could see owning a couple portable tower cranes if you had a in with a couple big apartment building companies. Or building big custom homes with lots of timber framing on tight access sites. The biggest problem with the spyders is having so little reach and capacity, there's just not a lot they can do.
Yes I knew training and insurance would be a huge hurdle to pass. As far as trades already owning the crane that does make sense. Along with your response and the others it sounds like there is no niche here. Thank you for your response.
Thank you for your insight.
Thank you for your response.
Happy to help. The boom truck niche is easy enough to parse out. I am retiring to a new area and I can find 3~4 boom trucks near the highway with signs on them, looking for work. I can make some calls, but my guess is that I would have an uphill climb carving out some business, and I am an experienced operator. One way to find your niche is to try to hire and see what kind of availability is there, how far they have to travel, and how the minimum charge for the service pencils out per hour including mobilizations. Then you can put pencil to paper and see if it is a viable thing.
Welcome to the Forums JD! Glad to have you. I graduated from Auburn several moons ago. Wife and I rent an apt for football season. We plan on retiring there one day. Can't afford anything more than an outhouse on Lake Martin.. No doubt Auburn is a booming place in addition to Lake Martin and the auto industry in Montgomery and Columbus. The University is always building something and the money that flows into Lake Martin is astounding. Personally don't know much about the crane market other than the Uptons have Central and North AL sewed up with Craneworks. I think they are in Mobile now. Several options come to mind and I like either roll-off or small equipment rental or a combo. Back in the 2000's I was partners in a roll-off company. We had 2 tandems, 1 single axle and a front load. The business can be very lucrative and there is always an easy exit point as one of the bigger boys will always buy you out. We sold to a company out of Mississippi back in 2010 and did OK.
Here is a fun one. A rolloff low bin complete with either a mini or skid steer with a hammer. Demo in a box. Return and pick up the concrete and one trip back to get the equipment. One stop shopping for the DIY demo guys, including the contractors that don't want to gear up. The key is the low bin that is easy to get the demo into. That helps.
If your looking to start a small business ,i wouldnt be choosing the crane business either. Skykings demo business looks like a good idea,having a mini with a breaker and the lowside bins makes it specialized enough to be a niche business but not as complicated as the crane biz. And those lowside bins are hard to get when you want one. I started in the crane business with operating and rigging experience gained from a previous employer as well as reasonably good mechanical skills. I bid all my jobs with the focus on a need for crane work within the job,in my case piledriving and marine construction. Winding down from Marine construction i stuck with just doing specialized crane work such as small dredging jobs,logging road bridges and a bit of pile driving which kept me away from competing with crane companies. Theres a lot of competition in the crane business where i am from good outfits with nice equipment ,so i dont consider going there. Best of luck in whatever you choose,be prepared to live and breath it 24/7 for a while and you will succeed.
It depends on your area as well. At the moment, this guy is the only local boom truck service besides Irving equipment, and they are mostly heavy cranes that have to drive 2 hours to get here. That's the thing as well. Depends how dedicated you are. A co worker's wife has started her own dental cleaning clinic. Around here, most hygenists work for the dentists. I told him she would do well if she stayed open late a few nights a week so people don't have to take time off to get their teeth done. That was a no on her part. I think she does Monday to Thursday, 9 to 4. No drive.
I have thought about seeing what is out there by calling, a lot of places in my area seem to be just rental equipment. But I guess for something like a crane they may offer an operator too. Thanks John.
I think a potential problem is the bin gets overloaded too easily and the renter doesn't want to pay to haul extra loads.
Nope. you size the bin right. it is purposely low sided, and you specify the fill in the contract. You have their CC like any rental company. It has to fit flush and then you autotarp it and go.
Detail business--specializing in semi/sleeper trucks.--The local guy couldn't find a building in town {the one he was in was leased it ran out} building was/is for sale for a vast amount. So he moved to a place in Dayton 30 miles up the road, his business followed. Low overhead, and makes a ton. He does auto's, pickups & motorcycles.
Funny thing you mention the mini-x for demo, we have a guy who strictly does footing, that what he does and he is efficient and thorough. You pay up for his work but he stands by his work, I would use him at my own house for work. If he hits bad dirt he is not going to just keep digging and hope the foundation is good. One thing he will not do is take the time to bust up rock. If he can’t dig it up he will inform us that we need to get someone to remove the rock and he will comeback. I asked him one time why he won’t bust it up, he said main reason is time. He has jobs lined up about 2-3 weeks out. Then he has to coordinate the concrete and pump truck oh and don’t forget the inspection. He has all of that already lined up before he break dirt. He said if he gets stuck busting rock it screws the entire schedule up. He hits a lot of rock at the Lake I know this because he is alway trying to find an open afternoon to go back and finish once the rock is out. I thought to myself having a mini-x for small demo jobs busting rock/old slab foundations may not be a bad idea in this area. At the end of the day he has a business model and he does not divert from that model. I know in Auburn they are taking down a lot of old structures and replace them or just leave open green space. Obviously developing a business model and sticking to it is key, strive to be the go to guy for that senecio. I see a lot of builders who mainly build new houses bid on remodels and additions and the lose their *** because they assume because the house is already their it must be good dirt or they don’t take into account what the house is going to be like once they open the walls up. Many times they open it up and discover major issues which ends up being costly or require structural engineers to provide a fix. A lot of electrical issue too. I see a lot of structural engineers because they are missing brace walls panels due to how custom the jobs are. When they build new houses they have a designers that take into account the panels. Other builders I know only do remodels and additions, not new construction.
There is a guy who lives a few miles from my house, he has dump trailers rental service. Looking at his truck he seems to be doing fairly well. He drops them then picks them up to dump and return them to the job site. My wife and I both went to AU, we had a house with less than a quarter acre of land in the Auburn City Limits. Sold it for more than what we bought our current house for, which has 3.25 acres and a shop. House was 4 years old when we bought it in 2020 and is the same size 2000sf as our old house. The old house was built in the early 90’s. The only real difference is we are not in the Auburn city limits. A lot of people thought we were crazy for moving but we are both from mobile and really miss the coast so for now we settled on being real close to Lake Martin. I can be at the boat launch in 15min from where we live now. But, I call Auburn the field of dreams, if you build it they will come. From one Auburn graduate to another, War Eagle!
Concrete can be very heavy and easy to overload even if a bin is not technically over filled. I think there's different densities. I hauled away some old sidewalk blocks and they were super heavy. Not sure how expensive it is to have a load scale on the bin or the truck.
Demo is much lighter than a load of rock. I base this on several hundred load tickets over 30 years. Rubble has a lot of void space in it that a load of rock or sand does not. The only time I have been pulled over by the dirt cop in the truck I was hauling concrete demo from the church job. I had heaped it up and hand jobbed the edges to get 6" of freeboard. He was sure I was overweight. I handed him a half dozen scale tickets and he looked at those, the load and said have a nice day. He left his jump scales in the truck. I'd get or build 8 yard rolloff boxes, and a tandem. If needed I could add a drop axle to that. They would be about 3' x 13' and be super easy to spot and load.
War Damn Eagle! BSCI grad here. We have a 305E with a B6 hammer that we use all the time. It's a small hammer but it does great on slabs and small trench rock. Use it 10X times more than the H140 GCs we have for the 325. A 305 sized machine is big enough to do real work and still able to tow behind a pickup albeit on the top end of towing capacity.
found one on Amazon, can’t verify the accuracy but for 50$ it’s worth a shot. Probably wouldn’t trust it if i was close to being 26k and subject to DOT but… having the DOT check you would be one way to determine it’s accuracy
Let me ask you a question, how well does that 305e handle the hammer. I’ve heard guys say those hammer bust a lot of hydro lines, can’t tell you what size machine they run, maybe their machine is a little on the small size for that type of application even though they can run a hammer attachment.
Very well. The hammer is well matched to the machine. Our 305 also has a manual QC and hydro thumb so it can get tippy as expected extended out. When we first bought the hammer I was impressed at how hard it hit. We have had zero issues with hyd hoses although we had to replace one hyd QC on the machine, can't remember if it was the male or female one. Bought it used from Thompson so hard to tell the root cause of its failure. Cat Financial was offering attachments at 0% for 24 months so we decided to buy the hammer as we had several small demo jobs coming up. The payment is $395 a month which is easily made. The hammer is about to be paid off next month so looking at buying an auger. The retail GC's we work for are always asking if we can drill light pole bases and menu board foundations. Some folks can destroy a steel ball with a rubber mallet - we work around them from time to time in the commercial construction side.
That is good info to know. I see you are listed as an Administrator. Just wanted to let you know that I am a member of other forums. I’ve noticed in those other forums, especially the Jeep Wrangler Tj I’m apart of there is a lot of egos being displayed on many of those threads. I appreciate the response I have received on this thread they are realistic but respectful. Many times in other threads you read not how wrong you are, but how stupid you are for not already knowing the answer to your question. That all you accomplished by posing that question just prove to all the other members how deep your stupidity runs.
Most of the auto forums are like that. Everyone is an expert there, and even if they don't know they will tell you what they think. You can get good info here, but sometimes threads can spin off topic, perhaps a sign of ADHD among construction types.......SQUIRREL!!!!!
Well this one kind of spun off from cranes to demo but that was good because the opinion at the start of this thread was it will be hard to get into because of the insurance issues, no operating experience and the low demand for what I was looking for in the crane industry. Rather than letting the thread die other viable ideas were mentioned. I’m kicking around multiple ideas, I’ll be 38 in June so I have a little time to figure something to do to prevent me from staying home and sitting on the couch after I “retire”. Whatever I end up doing I would like to be working for myself if possible. I have thought about demo but was trying to find something that was not a one and done deal. A lot of people like the idea of forestry mulching but my understanding of that is a lot of times it private land owners looking to clean up their property or a builder who has a client that wants a lot that is not completely cleared of all trees. Not many neighborhoods are wooded anymore. It cost more to do because the person hired to clear has to be careful of what to remove rather then just stripping the land and then bringing some trees back in. I have dealt a lot with concrete and concrete pumping is something I thought about too but I know I’m not (can’t) going to drop half a million in a pump truck. I have thought about a concrete pump trailer but I would have to hire a helper. I definitely don’t want to be dragging a concrete hose around in my 50’s, now if I mainly just operate the pump and had a helper to drag line with the finishers, that would not be bad. From my understanding it’s hard to find help running those pumps because of the physical demand on your body. But if you are dependable and have a well maintained pump you can get a lot of repeat business from the same contractors because pumps are so heavily relied on. Other then work comp injuries your liability exposure is relatively low. You get the concrete from point A (concrete truck) to point B ( slab, footings, wall, etc…). Your not responsible for the finish or mix, just pray you don’t get bad plugs in the line. The business model for concrete pumping is great because the contractor is “renting” the pump with a 4hour minimum so the pump gets paid regardless of if concrete is pumped or not. So inspections failing is not a concern for the pumping company.
Don't bet much on finding a good reliable helper. What business do you know now? Unless you have pretty deep pockets and are mostly looking for a hobby, buying a crane or concrete pump or anything other piece of machinery that you know nothing about and have never operated isn't really a good business plan.
I think concrete pumps are right up there with cranes when it comes to problems. They are good at finding soft spots and sink holes with thier outriggers. They also seem to hook up with powerlines at the wrong time.Long story short they deliver a heavy load at long distances with men under the "hook" at all times.They require competant operators. For a long time they have run without a lot of regulation ,but thats changing a lot now.
A major PIA if something goes wrong too, especially if they stop pumping when full of concrete. I was talking to an operator years ago and he said it's a major problem if the concrete starts harden too much.
I am in residential construction but you are correct I haven’t had experience behind the controls of equipment, I have operated a skid steer and mini-x before but would not consider it experience. I agree with you a spydercrane is a no go but I do believe I have time to learn how to operate some other equipment. I try to live by Bigfoots motto, you know, “believe in yourself even when nobody else does”. I have contacts who own these types of equipment (skid steers and mini-x) and have discussed learning how to operate them. They are open to the idea, I told them I would throw them some cash for fuel. Don’t have deep pockets either but what my wife and myself do have are jobs that have retirement plans. So I figured if I was ever going to take a risk retirement would be my best time to do it. My wife has an MBA so she could definitely run the “business” side of things. But before I had a kid I cut grass on the side in the afternoon. Between work and having the kid something had to give so I stopped doing that so at the end of the day I could always start that back up. But I got time to get some experience behind the controls and I know a few people who have made career changes, had no real experience operating equipment but they went for it are figuring it out and succeeding in it. Hell I know one guy who went the other way. He was operating a dozen and landed himself a job as a residential superintendent. I figure if your going to bet on someone why not it be yourself.
Yep if the concrete had been in the truck for over 90min you should dump it on the ground. If it’s below 40 degrees you should add an accelerator but the funny thing is this everyone wants to add Calcium - Chloride but that stuff will cause your reinforcement to rust out over time and compromise the concrete’s integrity. Don’t ask me why they want to use it, I don’t know why but there are other approved accelerators that don’t have chloride in it. Along with the pool that was added to the Miami condo that collapse the parking deck had major signs of corrosion on its reinforcement. Obviously there we multiple contributing factors to the collapse but one was the state of the concrete and it’s reinforcement. I have read articles stating that many of the water sources in Florida have some amount of salt in the water. Hopefully when they mix the cement they are able to somehow filter the salt out but you have to wonder about some of the older buildings that have been built.
One niche market that is underserved in my area is helical pier installation. They are increasingly popular for decks, docks, etc and can obviously be sized to support significant loads. I’m not sure what your market is like but I’ll throw that out there as food for thought…
Yes that is something that has taken off here. There were 2, and now there is one local guy. He has a truck, a trailer and a mini excavator, and he goes steady. I think you have to buy into a franchise, and they supply the driver head for your machine, and the screw piles. I think he actually has a remote to operate the machine for installing. But he works out of his home. No store front, just a web page, doesn't need much of a laydown yard, and because it's only a mini excavator, he doesn't need a large shop.
Helical piers are used in my area only when bad dirt is hit and it would cost more to remove the bad dirt. I’ve seen them go 40’ in the down before they hit suitable ground. I’m not sure how often they are used in the surrounding area. It’s my understanding that areas like in the mountains in Colorado they use them a bunch partially due to the expansive soil. I can say this, no way I could live in Co, my wife would loose her mind if she came home and the house rose up 6”.
Here there a few big boys that have the helical pier market saturated. Probably room for a small independent contractor but one would have to counter market the barrage of junk mail, radio and tv commercials and bill boards every 2 miles from the big 2. The big outfits do crawlspace encapsulation, basement waterproofing, slab jacking and helical piers. Good friend of mine built up one of the companies to the point of covering the state and recently sold out to a VE group that owns foundation companies all over the East coast. Now he doesn't have to worry about retirement or anything really. One brand of piers are made in Birmingham.
Here at HEF we want to be a friendly exchange of information about HE and construction without politics and hotheads. From time to time we'll get a new member that's a hot head however they are short lived either voluntarily not returning or having to be shown the door. Just makes the Forum more interesting.