I am having starting problems with my excavator. All the instrument lights come on when ign. is on but the switch doesn't engage the starter. Will someone tell me what I should check and in what order . I have no noise like bad battery connection. Thanks in advance for any help given.
check uour stater relay...
Since I've never been closer than 500 miles to one this is general advice... Since your lights come on and stay on I wouldn't suspect a loose connection. Where to start depends on what is easiest and makes sense to you. You could check the back of the switch to see that the start terminal is getting turned on in the start position. Could go directly to the starter and run a test lead back to the cab and see if the solenoid is getting power in start, if not, touch your lead to hot and see if it cranks. Another place to try would be voltage at the battery while turning it to crank (you can check the voltage from the cab, if it doesn't drop there, then it obviously doesn't drop at the battery). And of course if you can find the starter relay, that's as good a place to start as any.
Do the instrument lights stay bright or go dim when you try to engage the starter..?
Now I have another problem as I took the start switch out. It is in a hard place to do anything. Anyone have the wire colors that go to each lug? I know the blacks go to the B lug. I have a green with a red pigtail. I know where the green and red together goes but not sure about the pigtail. I tried to make a chart as I took it apart but then lost the chart. I also have a red with a black strapped wire. and then there is a white and red that go together. Thanks for all the other tips. sometimes I should leave things along.
Is your serial number above or below 3400? I've got two different wiring diagrams, depending. I could scan them for you. Greg
My serial # is below 3400
Hope these come through.........
Thanks that should be a big help.
Sorry, I just noticed that I scanned the hydraulic schematic rather than the electrical. This should be the one you need. You've got a nice looking machine, by the way.
My wires don't match what are on the diagram. Lugs on the starter are as shown but the wires are not what are on the diagram. But thanks for trying to help.
Thanks, It did work and look good but now it may become lawn art:beatsme. It is a new toy for me. I do hope to get it running again.
Here is the schematic for serial number 3401 and up. See if this looks more like yours. Good luck.
pictures on my PC50UU-1 I have a few pictures of the excavator. I still haven't got the machine fixed as I have not had time to devote to it. I did short from one lug on the starter to the other the starter motor would turn but did not engage with flywheel.
I have eliminated the starter switch it checks good. I shorted across 2 lugs on the starter and the starter turned but solenoid didn't kick in. Is the solenoid in the starter or is it somewhere else? The ign. switch still doesn't cause anything. It must be the solenoid, fuse, or relays. I checked the 4 glass fuses and the 2 fuse links, (they seem to be good). I am not sure how to check relays. I also don't know where all the relays are located. I am new to this machine so it is a learning thing.
Picture from net If I shorted these 2 wires would that make the starter and solenoid work?
I'm not familiar with a starter like that, but it looks and sounds like you connected the two big terminals (big sparky?), that will not activate the solenoid and "pull in the starter", it might engage, but it might just spin and not engage the gear. It sounds like the switches do nothing, so it's not likely you have a bad bendix and it's not getting a start signal at the same time. From your first pic in post #14 with the terminals, you can see the big phillips screw, that is part of the starter motor, so the bottom part with the terminals on each side is the solenoid. You want to find the small terminal on the solenoid, and either put a test lead going to a multimeter to see if it's getting juice when you turn the key, and/or run the test lead to a switch and see if the starter engages when you give it juice. The small terminal will activate the solenoid and confirm that the starter is working.
Thanks for any information I am new to this machine. I bought a manual for it but it isn't a good quality manual. Pictures are very poor quality and a lot of things are not covered. If anyone knows where the solenoid lug is located I would like to know a picture is best for me. Thanks again for all information as the excavator was working good. Things I have done are (1) put another battery on it (2) checked starter switch (3) checked fuses that I could find (4) shorted starter lugs and the starter turned but solenoid didn't kick in. There is a timer relay shown in the manual, I found it. Does the timer relay have anything to do with starting? Also where is a good place to get parts for the machine?
The small terminal on the solenoid looks like it should come off the bottom on the pic in #16 and the first pic in #14. There should be only one small terminal with one wire, not the wires coming off the positive battery cable terminal that you shorted to the other terminal.
See if there's anything here to help.
Your diagrams have been helpful. Do you have a picture of where the solenoid is located? To start the starting motor. To keep you up to date as to what I have tried. (1) I have cleaned all the wire connectors that I could find with electronics cleaner (2) checked out the ign. switch) (3) removed the ground cable and sanded the washers and body to a shiny finish) (Checked all the fuses that I could find) (tried another battery) (I don't know how to check a relay but I changed one and put in a new one) There is a timer relay that I haven't replaced. Do you know if it could be the cause? I hate to take the starter off because of the difficultly of removing it. But I guess that is my next move. I will keep everyone advised if I find a cure for my problem as to what the cause was. Thanks again for the help.
The solenoid (#10 starting switch) is the part on the bottom with a big terminal on each side. Are there any small wires connected to the bottom of your starter? that's where you need to test.
All I saw was the 2 lugs on the starter so I thought it may have a solenoid like the older fords.
Follow the cable back to the battery? my guess is it goes straight there with nothing in between.
There should be a smaller wire to engage the solenoid, if there isn't, you have found your problem. Now you have to find the wire.....
I ruled out the starter. I found the solenoid lug and the starter turned freely. It is in a bad place to find it from the bottom. It is on the firewall side above the battery lug. I am putting an attachment on here so if someone is new to the machine it may help them find the solenoid lug. The engineers that designed the machine didn't make it easy to work on. Now I have to trace why the solenoid isn't getting a start command.
Now back to the ignition switch, use your multimeter to see if you get a signal out of the switch, and follow that wire.
Where I am now I followed the wires from the solenoid back to a relay. I am going to include a picture to show what I did. I shorted the 2 wires that are marked with the yellow arrows and the machine started. The relay isn't connecting. I followed it back to the timer. I am thinking the timer is bad. Does anyone know where I can get that timer relay. I will also need the item number as I can't read what is on mine. I guess I could put a starter button between the 2 wires I shorted on the relay But I don't know what other problems that would cause. I am not sure it would charge and the instrument lights weren't working when I jumped the wires even though I had the switch on.
What do 2R, 2G, and 0.85WR wires go to? Is that ACC (accessory), E (earth,ground), L (line), ST (start, signal from switch), C (crank, signal to relay)? And do they function as they should? If those wires are supplying power as they should, then the timer is bad, but not until you know what the wires are supposed to do.
Can't read the schematic well, but to me it looks like "ACC" is power from the key switch "L" may be connected to the lamps, "ST" is indeed the start signal from the key switch and "C" using the British lingo is the output for "Commence" crank works too, lol. Does the number 1 pin there have power to it from the key switch?
Thanks again for all the feedback you all have gave me. I don't use the machine for a living I didn't have many toys when I was a child so I am making up for it now. I have a lot going on for the next few days but when I have time I will follow your tips.
I checked out the wires to the timer and relay I finally got some time to check a few things. I checked out the timer wires and the relay wires. the only things I found that may not be as it should are on the relay one of the wires wasn't the color that it is on the schematic instead of red yellow it was black. The 2 ground wires showed a 5 on the 200K scale on the ohm meter when checked separate to a ground. I have a question if it isn't the ground could I just put a starter switch between the 5B and the 5BW wires on the relay? Would that not be the same as the relay working? I am not trained in electrical work. I need pictures to find a lot of things on a schematic. It is supposed to rain here for the next few days so I could not use the machine until it dries. I would like to find out what is wrong with it but I am about ready to try a switch or doing a little re wiring to get it running again.
It certainly looks like a toggle switch between 5 black and 5 black/white would accomplish the same thing as a relay. As a caution, though, a relay often has to meet certain "conditions" prior to closing. Those conditions are frequently safety related. I wouldn't hesitate to try it for the purpose of troubleshooting or to get the machine started and moved to a more convenient location, but I would be hesitant to consider it a "fix". Greg
I put a push button on the machine to start it as I didn't know anything else to do. Now I have another problem. I threw the right hand track. Will someone tell me the best way to get it back on. I am thinking I will have to remove the zerk fitting and push the idler back. I have never put a track on so I am just guessing. I am new to track equipment and I am beginning to see there is going to be a lot to the upkeep of them. I now have 2 so I guess I am in for a learning experience.
Yup, that's what you do. If it's off one end, just try to work it back on. If it's completely off, pick your poison, last time I did any I started with the idler end, got the loop over that and secured it with a cheap ratchet strap, then worked the open loop of track sideways until I could get it started on the sprocket teeth. Some muscle, couple bars, power down on the bucket to lift and lower the machine, maybe some good blocking, couple ratchet straps or comealongs, and liberal cussing usually do it. Some people start at the sprocket end, YMMV.