I know how much easier this would be with photo's.....life aint meant to be easy. On my old d5 that I seem to be rebuilding weather I like it or not I've got some real strange wear on the sprocket. On the outside only of one sprocket (LHS) there is new wear on every tooth. The metal is scored about 12mm or so down each tooth and about 2-3mm deep at this stage. I just swapped out the track rollers only 40 hours ago but there is still a lot of squealing going on down there. I am guessing that the sprocket is coming into contact with the inside of the chain??? I've checked that the sprocket is lining up ok with the first roller and it looks ok by eye. There was some similar looking scoring on the other side before I rebuilt the final drives but it was old. This time it's new and doesn't look too great at all. Would (as always) appreciate your thoughts.
I had a left track that was doing the same while working on a slight side bank on a much larger machine, I tighten the track say 1/4" to 1/2".Have had no further squealing, the machine has less than 1000 hrs on a complete track group.
I should also say I just had a squeal not deep scoring marks.
The replacement rollers you fitted. Genuine Cat or "will fit" like Berco ..? What sort of wear % is on the sprocket..? What sort of wear on the track links..? I was also thinking track tension. Also think about the possibility that your new rollers with unworn flanges are now forcing the track links to run a slightly different route between the last roller and the sprocket than they did with your old worn rollers. Could that be the cause ..? Try loosening off your track tension as far as it will go, jack the machine up with the blade and the ripper so that the track is hanging completely clear of the bottom rollers, then run a string line down the inside of the roller flanges and see where it hits the sprocket. Do this both inside and outside on the side where you have the wear & the noise, then compare what you found to the other side of the machine.
Nige, they are genuine cat rollers. The sprockets are actually in great shape, I'm guessing 80% or so. The track link/chains are in average condition I would think .it's a bit hard with a lack of experience in tracked machines.One pin has fully seized on the other side... there is quite a lot of chips etc on the chains themselves but the pins are in good shape with minimal wear I would say. The noise was there with the old rollers and is still there with the new. I am missing the track frame gaurds near the idler on both sides and crap does get in to the top of most of the rollers.can this play a part? I've adjusted the tracks as per the service manual as best I can.
Just a thought....are the track frames running parallel with the sprocket? I can imagine if one of the frames is tweaked out of line it could cause rubbing between the sprocket and rails.
interesting thought and one I hadn't considered.How would you check this?
The man that rebuilt your F/Drives should have set up the track frames to the correct spec', the outer hub bushings and hub need to be in good order, the shim stock is behind the dead shaft nut, the inner wishbones need to also be checked for wear.
g'day tctractors....I don't know if I'm helping or sounding more annoying...did a lot of the f/d rebuild myself with the help of a mechanic for tricky bits. I did'nt put any shims in....I saw this recently in the parts book and thought I'd check this out when I sort out the track probs this summer. Like I said, the sprocket looks ok lined up to the first roller by eye. One guy I have spoken to thought the gouging on the sprocket may have been caused by a lot of turning?...I have been turning quite a bit but I'm real careful to balance things up and do a similar amount of turns on each side (if that makes dense)...the gouging is only on the one side. Something not being lined up makes sense as it must be the chains that are causing the wear. Thanks for your time in responding, it all helps.
You might measure the width between the chains at the back and front and see if they're toeing in or out. Maybe check it after moving the tractor forward and back to see if it changes with direction indicating something loose. As far as correcting alignment I'd have to leave that to someone with more experience.
Measure across the tractor from the inside edge of the track shoes at both front and rear of the machine. How much difference ..? Have a look at the equalizer bar end pin & bearing on that side (well both sides really). Wear there can cause the track frame to toe-in. Regarding alignment my string-line method above wil give you an idea if your track is running true from the time it leaves the rearmost roller until it hits the sprocket.
On CAT tractors, the shimming sets the position of the spocket to the C/Line of the bottom rollers, the top rollers are moved in or out on the shafts, the front idler is shim set to the C/Line of the bottom rollers, any wear on the outer support hub, (thats the bit that mounts on the dead shaft taper held in place with the big nut) or bent dead shaft will lead to an incorrect positioning of the rim to the roller frame, the inner wishbone bearing is also very important as again it has its place in keeping things true,track frames always want to Toe out never Toe in, so if the tractor is driven forward on a flat serface the gap at the front idler position will be greater than the back, if the tracks are not as new always measure the frame to chassis, swapping front idlers from 1 side to the other helps some but only after the inner and outer mounting points are rectified,. On track loaders the hard bar mounting point is shimmed to give correct thrack frame position, it is also critical to make sure you have the correct flanged roller up to the sprocket
Sounds to me like you have a case of "snakey track" (worn). Chipped rails are from riding up on the sides of groove worn rollers. Now that you have new rollers the rails are free to travel sideways and don't align perfectly with the sprockets. It's the old "where do you stop" syndrome when replacing undercarriage components.
I once had tracks that were chipping rails on both sides. After measuring them, I found they were still within wear limits, just, so decided to turn pins & bushes. When they pressed the links apart they found most of the bushes cracked,so we replaced all the pins & bushes with new ones. Put them back on the tractor with old, but good, rollers and havn't had a chip since. Cheers,Greg
Did you put a double flange roller on next to sprocket? Bob
hey Bob, can't remember for 100%.bloody hell...it was only a few weeks ago!...I swapped them out exactly as they were and I think it was a single next to the sprocket. There is 6 rollers and I'm fairly sure it was SIngle(next to idler), double,double,single,double,single.
Might want to check the shells in the diagonal brace, make sure they are still whole and in place. Also, find out exactly what is directly causing the scoring. You should see fresh markings where ever it is making contact, be it the inside of the rails or something else.
hi dblaneyfan, not sure what you mean by checking the shells in the diagonal brace, appreciate it if you could spell it out for me. Thanks.
Where the Y-arm goes under the tractor and attaches at the rear of the tractor, there should be two wear bearings, or shells. I am not familiar with this tractor specifically, so I am going by my experience with D5B's and D6D's and E's. Here is a picture on a D5B.
ah ok.........the diagram looks exactly the same as mine. Replaced those shells for new when I did the final drives about 90 hours ago. As I've said, I do need to go back and check to see if I need to shim it out to make sure the arm is sitting evenly in the hole.
nige.thanks for your comments and will check. The 'equilizer' bar doesn't have any end pins/bearings etc..it's old style mate. leaf spring style. There doesn't really seem any way that it could have any effect on toe in/out. I'd be happy if someone who knows more could tell me otherwise. There is at each end of the equilizer a bolt and sleeve (part no-7h4860) but it looks to me that these are more to keep things together than being something adjustable. These sleeves on both sides are very worn and there is a fair bit of play, but it does look like there is meant to be.
It's not about aligning the swing arm in the slot....there is some room there so that you can do the shim thing out at the track frame in order to adjust alignment.
54j. I dont think you are copping on?? the frame mounting points are at 3 positions the equalizer beam being 1, it sits inside a fair sized hole where its position is determind by the rear fixtures on the frame, 2 is the inner wishbone the other 3rd is the outer hub location, when both these positions are in good fettle, you set the spacing of the track frame to the spocket, this is done with shims behind the big plate that is held onto the dead shaft via the big nut. the amount of wear your sprocket is showing would indicate something is well gimped??? the position of the inner wishbone in relation to the thing it bolts around is not important in any way, its purely the position of the rim to roller, it could be that your frame is bent???
My apologies - forgetting that the end fixings of the equalizer bar on your machine are not fixed pins with a rose-joint type bush in the end of the equalizer bar. Like tc says, you most likely have a shimming issue at the back end meaning that the track frame rollers are not exactly lined up centrally with the sprocket thus giving you the lop-sided wear. This is for a D5, it may not be identical to your machine but it will give you the idea. Alignment Of Track Roller Frame Alignment: The center of sprocket (16) is to be in the center of rear track roller (12). Clearance (14) is to be the same as clearance (15). Add or remove shims (3) to make clearance (14) and (15) the same or within .06 in. (1.5 mm) of center. The thickness of one shim is .036 in. (0.91 mm). Use the least number of shims possible and not more than seven shims on each side of the machine. NOTE: All steps must be done on both sides of the machine. 1. Put the machine on a flat surface and check clearance (14) and (15). 2. Raise the machine until tracks are off the ground. 3. Remove all adjustment from the tracks. 4. Remove guard (9) and bolt and lock (10). 5. Loosen final drive bearing adjustment nut (11) and remove the preload on bearing (7). 6. Remove cap (6), lock (5), nut (4), retainer assembly (2) and shims (3). 7. Install shims (3) to move track roller frame (13) out to increase clearance (14) and (18) and decrease clearance (15) and (17). Remove shims (3) to move track roller frame in to decrease clearance (14) and (18) and increase clearance (15) and (17). 8. Lubricate bearing (8) through grease fitting in support (1). Use 1P808 General Purpose Lubricant. Make sure grease goes all the way around bearing (8). 9. Put 1P808 General Purpose Lubricant inside of retainer assembly (2) and install retainer assembly. 10. Make adjustment of final drive bearing (7). See the topic, Adjustment For Final Drive Bearings. 11. Pack cap (6) with 1P808 General Purpose Lubricant and install the cap. 12. Put the machine on the ground and adjust the track.
Nige, thats a top bit of script you have posted, but I think 54j's track frames might be bent?? they bend on the outside channel section, this is from the hub to the start of the bottom rollers, a straigh edge placed on the vertical side of the channel might tell a tail, again that is a very easy to follow bit of a post Nige, well done.
I agree TC, this is a very interesting thread and the posters have really gone over the top to supply concise information. I didn't have a clue how a dozers track frame is connected to the chassis before reading this thread, way different than a track loader I'm seeing. From Nige's description, I assume the sprocket isn't moving in and out but the outside support hub is because of the shim placements? And this outside hub is solidly bolted to the track frame so you are actually moving the entire frame and rollers to align them with the sprocket? I'm confused about step 5 and it makes me wonder if the sprocket is moving for the adjustment instead of the track frame.
ERROR ALERT .......!! In Step 5 it should say "Loosen final drive bearing adjustment nut (4) and remove the preload on bearing (7). The reason is that you have to remove the nut #4 in order to add or remove shims (3). By loosening the nut you are actually taking the preload off the bearing. Basically the idea is that the side-to-side position of the Support (1) determines the position of the centreline of the sprocket. The support is bolted to the track frame in a fixed position. To move the support (1) in or out to achieve correct alignment between the sprocket and the last track roller you have to either add or subtract shims (3). Don't credit me with too much intelligence ....... the adjustment procedure was simply a cut-&-paste taken straight out of the Service Manual .......
Oldandworn, on track loaders there can be 2 shim adjustments, 1 on the back hub the other on the inner sides of the hard bar, D8Ks have an adjustment also on the Bailstrone bar (equalizer beam) as this beam is pinned centraly, the ends are located via side-lugs in the top roller saddle, but I dont want to add to any more confusion, the final drive bearing pre-load is very high, on a D6 its about 1'200 lbs ft, the dead shaft nut is about half of this loading, so if you undo the dead-shaft nut without easing the sprocket pre -load, things might let Fly with someone getting hurt,so you let off the pre load before removing the dead shaft nut.
Take a close look at the diagonal brace too. My D6c had a large crack near where the diagonal brace is attached to the roller frame.
I had a same problem on a 9U the guy that rebuilt the under carriage did not put the nut on the dry axle correct, the treads were bad so he welded. The other thing is, are the track frames warn and allowed to move around on the dead axle. They can run for years doing slow work but should fix.
Had the machine been used on side-slopes much before you had it?
I don't know ih100.but I wouldn't think so. It's all pretty flat out here and I don't think it was doing heaps of dam work etc. It was an old station dozer in a former life and it was a hard one at that. Pushing trees/scrub out for fencelines would have been high on the list. Thanks for all replies, I've taken all on board and investigating as we speak. I'll post the outcome here as it develops as it may help others down the track.