Well i had the joy of blowing the guts out of a loader bucket cylinder So now i am attempting to remove the cylinder to effect repairs. There are two big bolts with 1 1/2 nuts. I have tried the normal stuff: Cheater bar - Heat - Impact. Not a thing happening. Any ideas? Blue flame wrench - Cut off wheel - etc Hate to waste a good bolt. May be expensive to replace?
could it be a left hand thread?
3 or 4 ft. RIGID pipe wrench and a 10 ft. length of 2" schedule 40 steel pipe for a cheater. Or a 3/4 drive impact with a big hose at 125 psi minimum air pressure. I have bent my 3/4 breaker bar taking things apart on my 580K. Have fun.
amunderdog, Maybe try heating the nut with a rosebud. Get it cherry red, then start with the impact or the breaker bar. You may end up galling the threads, so be prepared to replace the bolt and nut. A good hefty 1'impact should take that off, but I'm guessing you are working without one of those. If you're good with a torch you can cut the nut off and leave the threads intact on the bolt, only having to replace the nut. Good luck Rigandig After looking at the picture again, have ya tried to remove the pin from the cylinder, and the pin from the rod end , unhook the hyd lines, and snake the cyl out without removining the linkage. Just a thought.
I don't understand why you don't unhook the rod end, unscrew the gland and just pull the rod and piston out. I must be missing something here:tong. If I have a nut that won't come with heat and a 6 foot pipe, I cut it off. Cut one side then the other, the thread will show up and you can cut right along it. Then use a big cold chisel to knock each half off, use safety glasses . Phil
I'm with Phil. Don't bother messing with the stuck bolts, unless ya just have to. Raise the loader arms slightly. Roll bucket forward until the links that attach the cylinder are vertical. Lower bucket and allow cutting edge to rest on ground. Remove pin that connects top link to bucket, swing the link over top back toward cab and support the link. Remove pin connecting cyl rod to bucket, fully retract cyl, disconnect cyl lines, remove cyl gland, drain oil into a container, then remove cyl rod from barrel.
That was one of my thoughts also. Sounds like the better plan. What makes them nuts so hard to move? Was wanting to haul it to a repair shop. Guess i will have to man up and do the deed myself. I need to buy or make a gland nut wrench? So i should need a Seal kit. anything else i need to order? Any recomended places to order said parts online? Been looking at EPS Thanks for the help.
What makes the nuts hard to move? Rust. When anything is on the assembly line, they don't have time for things like NeverSieze. It's "put it together and move on to the next one". Make a gland nut wrench? I am usually able to use a pair of slip joint pliers or a pipe wrench. Get a big pair of Channel Lock pliers and see if the gland comes loose. If it doesn't, read this thread. Works everytime I've tried it. Yes, you need a seal kit. You could call Contractors Machinery in Alcoa. They should be able to ship the kit to you. Not sure about EPS, haven't dealt with them before. You could also contact Signal Industrial Products in Knoxville. That's where I get all my seals. They can look up many machines by application, a 580K shouldn't be a problem for them to look up. http://www.signalproducts.com/
If EPS is equipment parts source, I've had good results. The stuff I ordered showed up when it was supposed to. Although, the seal kits for my 580d are at the dealer for around $20ish. May take a different kit for a K, I dunno... Use a little heat on the cyl. rod bolt, they have loctite on them. I broke a 3/4 drive breaker bar before learning this.
Thanks:notworthy This Forum is just great:thumbsup
Ok that was easy So easy; i had time to take pictures. And think about a saying my Father used all the time; "There are more ways to kill a cat than choking it on butter" Anyway here are the pictures:woohoo View attachment 44697 View attachment 44698 View attachment 44699
Seal kit install So i orderd the seal kit from Case. . They arrived. Parts i think are inside gland:Banghead Bushing - Plastic seals/Wide and narrow - O-Ring. > The Plastic seals must be what blew out as they are not there and only a few shreads were found stuck in the wiper seal. Included in kit = Bushing - Plastic seals/Wide and narrow Not included = O-Ring / Is this replaced by the narrow plastic seal? So my big questions > How to you get the old parts out from inside the gland? Bushing and O-Ring > How do you get the new parts back in? The Plastic wide and narrow seals will be difficult to shove in from end. So looking inside gland i have: Wiper - blank space - O-Ring - bushing.
Well, it's tough to say for certain because the pics are not clear and you didn't send pics of new seals, but here's what you'll typically see on those type of cylinders. Starting from the outside working in - first, the wiper ring, we typically call that a "canned wiper" because it's molded into a steel casing. Second, some form of u-cup seal. You probably have a standard u-cup, they're not that hard to install them. But it could also be something like a poly-pak u-cup with an o-ring loader in the cup. If that's what you have, they can be a little more tricky. In either case, the seal is always installed with the u side of the cup toward the inside of the cylinder. Third groove, I don't think that should be an o-ring, in most cases it's what we call a buffer ring, a rectangular cross section ring. The purpose of the buffer ring is to protect the u-cup seal from sudden shock loads that would stress the u-cup seal. Again, easy to install, it should slip right in there. Lastly, the rod bearing fit's into the wide groove. Grease everything good to re-install on rod. I use Loctite Viperlube. I've also used Lubriplate 105 Motor Assembly grease, you can find it at most auto parts stores.
All of the Genuine Case seal kits I have purchased have a detailed instruction sheet included with them. I submerse the poly seal in warm water,then dry it throughly before installing it. I think it makes it much more flexable to install in the gland.
This is a picture of seal kit. The detailed directions included show 4 variations, and are not really that easy to understand or detailed. The manual does not say how to get the old parts out. Dental pic? But does show some fandangle tool that wads up good seals for insertion. And does a fair job of describing the details of seal orientations. I am getting a better idea That O-Ring in there is problematic for me. Not easy to retrieve and may not even supposed to be there.
According to the detailed instructions the “flat grooved on one side” seal standing on edge. In the picture must be the: Buffer seal backup ring or Flat buffer seal. Depending on illustration. They are both shown in the groove that now has the O-Ring
Ah yes, much better pic. :notworthy That's a standard u-cup seal, no problem to install, and I never bother with that fancy tool you describe on these type of seals. Just make sure you install with the u side of the seal toward the inside. I have dental type pics to remove old seals. Yes, that flat seal is a buffer ring. Some, if you cut them across and looked at it, would just be a rectangle in crossection shape. I can't tell for sure, but yours looks like it might be one that is rectangle crossection with a notch on one side around the outer diameter. Doesn't the instructions give a view of how it's installed?
The manual says "narrow seal" grooves to small end of gland. The detailed instructions:Lips of seals towards piston. What ever that means. I think that means grooves towards small end of gland.
Your describing the u-cup seal. It's just different (maybe confusing) ways of proper orientation of the seal. You've got it right; the side of the seal that has the groove faces toward the inside of the cylinder, not toward the outside where the wiper ring is. But the buffer ring has a proper orientation as well unless it's just a rectangle crossection, if it is, it doesn't matter. Also, when your installing seals, find you an old flat screwdriver that's so rounded off it wouldn't turn a screw if it had to, no sharp points or edges. You can use this tool to gently push seals into grooves to get that last little bulge in until it pops in place.
I managed to dig out what appeared to be an O-Ring when looking down the hole. Turns out it was something much different. No wonder it was so hard to remove with my sophisticated tools. The bushing was only difficult to remove. Now on to trying to get all the new improved seals back in correctly. Got a big ol tube of "Lubriplate" two different directions and this great Forum. What could go wrong
Yep, there's your buffer ring! Looks like the plain rectangular cross section type. Is your new one just like that, or does it have some notches/grooves in it on a surface?
Stuck bolt help: Good coffee too, amunderdog... OCR
And the buckets have all kinds of re-use applications.
All turned out well. I think. Forgot to put Anti-seize on the gland threads. Is that going to haunt me next time i am in there? Had to back the gland up from tight to get the lock screw back in. Is that a problem? Thanks for the help
Hmmm, maybe, but I'd say it will be a while before you have to get back in there. I just like to grease everything when I'm re-assembling a cylinder. To back the gland up to install lock screw is not unusual. The gland doesn't necessarily have to be "tight" on these cylinders because the lock screw keeps it from backing out and the o-ring makes a dirt seal. Sounds like everything went well for you. Good job.
Good write-up on the buffer ring ATCOEQUIP. The gland threads 'live' in oil so there's no need to put never-seize on the thread, in theory. The grease is a good idea I think, that's what I use. I use never-seize on many fasteners, and I'm not sure how we got along without it years ago. There was a similar compound, years ago, 'pipe thread dope' used by plumbers, I have used that in a pinch. Phil
Yeah man, Phil, I guess I've just taken so many things apart over the years that were STUCK that I just have a habit of saving the next bloke (maybe me) the same grief, so it get's grease. Where 'bouts you at in S. Ontario? One of our attachment salesman is originally from Cambridge Ontario.
I'm from the eastern part of the province, out in the sticks. I worked in the Cambridge area for many years, used to be 3 cities, then renamed when they grew together. Phil
The later model Case cyls don't have an oring at the flange end of the gland nut, the gland orings are at the bottom end of the nut - so they do stop oil getting to theads & don't stop moisture getting in from the outside - allowing threads to rust up. Also, they don't take the thread right to the end of the gland nut - so as you unscrew the gland, you have to screw it through rusted cylinder threads. I've had many cylinder reseal jobs turn ugly - having to weld a plate to gland nut, heat cylinder (till all seals melt) & SLOWLY unscrew gland - removing most of the threads in cyl barrel! A one hour job turns into a couple of days, waiting for a new cylinder to be delivered, or machined up in a shop, costing $$$$$$$. All because someone, (I'd like to get a hold of them) somewhere, decided it was a better(?) idea to move the position of the oring & back up. WHY? WHY? WHY? ( rant over )