Hi, I really hope you have some experience with these cause in my area nobody has an idea. I came up with a fairly new technology called suction excavator ( no its not vacuum excavator) . What I cannot really find out and nobody can explain me adequately even the dealer and anyone is what do these characteristics mean http://en.rsp-germany.com/products/saugbagger/ese8/ and in particular MAX. VOLUME FLOW is 43 THOUSAND m3 per hour which i have no idea what it is and max. vacuum is 47 000 Pa. Also if anyone has experience with this could explain me what is the exact difference between these suction ones and the vacuum (besides the teeth on the hose end) . Might be even not for this forum as this is more of a municipality machinery. What they do explain to me is that the suction is not a vacuum machine but an airlift principle. I would be very happy if a nice discussion forms about these. Boris
I've never seen or operated one. As I understand it, the difference is that a suction exc flows much more air in order to lift the material in the fast air current. Kind of like a leaf collecting truck. A vacuum exc lifts water and mud directly. Like a septic pumping truck.
There is no gravity, the Earth sucks. Suction is vacuum, vacuum is suction. 43.000 m3 is 43,000 cubic meters per hour of air flow up the pipe, 47.000 Pa is equivalent to .47 Bar or 6.8 Psi, I would assume at sea level. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is about 101,325 pascals (roughly 14.6959 pounds per square inch). So your digging force is a bit less than half the available air pressure. A large engine driven blower pushes air out, creating a vacuum on the inlet side that is piped away to the end of the hose, where atmospheric air enters. This action is often combined with a pressurized water blast to loosen material to be sucked up the pipe. I fail to understand how they can say this is different from a vacuum machine, but maybe I'm missing something. I think your dealer is trying to blow your skirt up.
But who would need these. The companies here are quite sceptic cause its too slow ( all 7 bars no matter brand only air capacity varies with size) . Why would you manufacture these as excavators when companies that are most perspective just dont like them at all. I heard also that they presented this http://www.directindustry.com/prod/cappellotto-spa/product-89895-944877.html as an excavator as for me it is a sewage truck and the company specializes in sewage equipment. I am also wondering why it has not reached US yet ( think so ) .
They're fairly common around here. They are used to excavate in the areas where there are buried services. They improve safety and avoid the cost involved with damaging cables.
What brands do you use in Australia ? Are they general sewage trucks or suction excavators
A tornado was included in our neck of the woods east of Savannah, GA with our dose of Hurricane Matthew. A 10-wheel vacuum truck with Michigan tags put in some utility-pole holes here, and the operators said that the process allowed identifying in-ground utilities to avoid damaging them. Neill
Not really my area of expertise, but I believe they differ from ordinary vacuum trucks in that they carry a water tank and pump to liquefy the dirt before it is vacuumed up.
Hi I will try to answer some of the questions from all of you... Our Australian company owns and operates one (the only one in the country) suction excavator made by MTS, our mother English compoany has a large fleet of them. The technology is rather new for EU (10-12 years old), for Australia and Canada 2 years old. Here are the links: www.forceoneaus.com.au www.forceoneltd.co.uk www.saugbagger.com There are 2 companies in the world that own the technology, both based in Germany. MTS is the one I'm talking about. They are not vacuum trucks in the principle that they do not create vacuum, they use a constant air flow that is much more powerful then vacuum. These are not wet-vacs as the Gentleman from Australia is describing. In the USA they are not available but Canada has started importing them for North America here is the company http://www.ox-equipment.com/ These are very specialized, very powerful machines with amazing features and abilities, glad to answer any questions you have
I think what this gentlemen is talking about is a dry vacuum excavator as apposed to a wet system that it much more common in North America. The dry vac system uses compressed air to break up the material to be excavated instead of high pressure water. The result is a much lighter dry material to be disposed of. There's a company up here that uses single axle trucks for vacuum trucks because of the weight difference. When full they just dump on the street and go back to work. A backhoe then loads into a triaxle and away it goes to the normal dump.
Suction is not vacuum. Vacuum is created inside a container and it can never be greater then 0 or 6 pascals if you wish. The trucks Boris is talking about are called "Saugbagger" in German which translates "Suction Excavator" Their technology is based on 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 turbines/fans that constantly create an air slip ****** also called "Thin ****** process" or "dilute phase conveying". You can measure that ****** by many means, the manufacturers prefer to use the 43,000 cubic meters of air per hour, the same size truck creating vacuum can only do 2,000 to 4,000 cubic meter of air per hour. These "Saugbagger" trucks with middle of the range fan power (2 fans like the one I have), will suck material from 40m depth and 150m distance, no vacuum can do that. Also the large diameter intake hose will suck up whole bricks and everything solid or liquid that fits inside it. With pure suction direct at the end of the hose will lift a human or 80 Kilos.
Really? I bet you could write a dissertation on that one, maybe it's already been done. What you mean is that suction typically refers to a weak vacuum. This method uses high volume to move the material in a high speed current of air, instead of sucking water/mud directly. If you want a demonstration, put your shop vac on a step ladder and see how fast it will lift water at it's height limit, then lift he hose out so it's sucking air and bring it back so that it sucks just a little water but mostly air. I'm pretty sure it works better sucking mostly air at some height.
It's just a pissing match, mine is bigger than yours. I've seen these machines being used on the streets of Portland ten years ago, with Roots blowers running off some big power. I'm sure they're great but really, there's not much new under the sun.
Delmer ...lets agree to disagree my friend. The suction of these vehicles does not work unless air is always partialy absorbed, maybe you are right. lentraxco maybe you need to review it, find me something "good old" like my truck and I will agree that its "not new" one of its many features is also robotic reco-drive, I drive and steer the whole vehicle from 100m away without anyone in it, what you saw was probably not that, especialy 10 years ago
The photo above is my actual truck while working at the Gas field in Australia, there is no container to create vacuum within either.
And this is a schematic of how it works, constant air ******
What do you think of this vacuum digging idea showed on this site? http://www.jack-pack.as/multigrab-general-info.html Scroll to the bottom of the page to see it.
I worked next to one, it had a high pressure air jet and it bored a 12x12 inch hole through the blacktop and right down, 3 feet to the gas main to facilitate attaching anode bags. It was fast, loud and very slick. The suction line around the air jet captured everything, dust was trapped in the truck and dirt/gravel was poured out on the ground to refill the hole.
They are good for areas with limited access and come in many configurations and power output, here are the MTS models http://saugbagger.com/en/product/sbo-6080-2/
Thanks for all the info. We have an exhibition week next week for the RSP. Potential companies like construction ones , sewage etc. are quite sceptic to these as I dont know but some have made demo with a SEWAGE truck for excavating ( CAP GEO ) Capellotto and now they don't really want to hear anything similair to this. I wanted to see some competent opinions because here nobody has an idea even manufacturer officials ( you know these representatives that are economists but represent something they require techical knowledge they lack of and explain you things theyve no idea of)
The company I retired from did a lot of work in refineries. One large oil company here requires all on site digging to be done by vacuum. If you machine will suck up bricks and what not will it also suck small utilities like fiber lines up also. If its to powerful it defeats the purpose by not doing any damage. Oil companies do not like bad press.
Boris, its new technology and as such people dont understand it. It is not the solution for everything but it is very very good. Make sure after RSP you talk direct with MTS too. You are in Bulgaria so it is not hard to find existing operators nearby here are all MTS representitives in the world http://saugbagger.com/en/partner-vertretungen/
No it will not, the suction power is directional, it has the power to lift up a brick or a rock but the methodology that is applied when axcavating on services does not allow for such scenario. Furthermore the operator deploys a series of air tools, some made in USA like the Airspade 4000 and the MBW soil pick that harnes the very low power of 100psi air in more effective ways then 2700psi water, hence making safer. Oil refineries preffer my truck to ezcavate on their old steel pipes because my air tools do not harm the protective rapping, which gets badly damaged by high water pressure wet-vacs. Refineries benefit from our extreme suction power because for example, I can remove 250 tonnes of hard sentiment in an oil tank 25m in diameter in 4 days without any man entry (if access allows). I work constantly in the LNG (fracking) industry on live water and gas pipes with Optic Fibre and many other extremely fragile assets. ZERO incidents, productivity in access of 500%, financial saving at 150% and totally environmentally friendly.
The MTS lads here are some company in no way related to machinery business so I suppose they are as ignorant. I think here only 1 person can even control a Saugbagger.
These machines are over 45 years old , have been used in the opal mining industry. Friend built this one, but it doesn't dig/excavate only extracts
I send you an email opal miner.
I send you email opal_miner