I have had to look at these system one tracks made by Cat lately and I'm curious as to the advantages of this system. My initial impression is there are more components to wear out, a lot more complexity to cause problems and a whole lot more cost to replace. When you look at the idlers it seems to me you would reduce bushing life because now the bushings ride on two idlers as well as the sprockets. Does anyone have any experience with these tracks?
Operating cost is suposed to be the advatage to the system. From what I have been told it costs a third more to replace the system 1 undercarrage, but it lasts twice as long, so if a normal undercarrage replacement cost $30,000 and lasted 4000 hours ($7.5 per hour) the system one would cost $39,000, but last 8000 hours ($4.88 per hour), and that is before you consider the down time and labor costs of the extra replacement (on the standard U/C). I don't know how realistic those numbers are, but if there is that much savings, then sign me up. I don't see how there are any more components than a normal undercarriage. The bushings are free to turn, just like a rotating bushing chain, they found that the bushings would out last the rails, so I assume that is why the run the idlers on the bushings now. I believe they also made the links taller so that the pins, bushings, and links would all wear out at about the same time. I would also like to hear from someone running system one and see if they are getting any savings from it.
System 1 Wear I have spent a fair amount of time learning about and inspecting System One undercarriages and so far I am fairly impressed with what I have seen. Granted, I work for a Caterpillar dealer so most of my learning material is of the "latest-greatest-lets-go-sell-it" variety, but there is no disputing the significant wear life I have seen so far. I am usually a little wary in putting my name behind a new product (my cutomers never forget if I get it wrong) but System One is winning me over fairly quickly. Just recently I inspected a D6R XL that was retrofitted with System 1. The unit was a landfill machine in an environment that usually demands a pin and bushing turn at about 2800 hours. The measurements I took indicated at 2500 hours the System 1 components averaged about 28% wear. Not bad at all, and no down time needed for a p&b turn. Take it for whatever it is worth.
the scalloping of the rails in abrasive conditions is all but eliminated also. The only thing I don't like about them after year or more of being around them is the install/removal. at this time there is no master link that I am aware of. it is somewhat a pain to remove and install but there is a price to pay for the design, not to bad of a trade in my book.
Thanks for the input! So how does it make and break. Do you have to have a track press?
System One in rock. Hi, Joe Hamper. Thanks for your input about System One tracks. The firsthand knowledge is nice to hear. One of the first reports I heard about System One about 3 years ago was that it didn't handle rock and high impact conditions all that well. Can you shed any light on that aspect of them, please?
a track press of sorts. It has two small rams and two frames that bolt to the links were the grouser bolted. then the porta power pulles the side links off of the pins. you just pick a spot and get to work as all of the links are the same. its really not a terrible job but definantly allot more work than the four bolts on the previous link design. Deas, the only thing I have heard about high impact was the first run "master links" were not holding up but they fixed that by removing them. maybe Joe can ellaborate more.
From what ive seen of these "system one" Tracks, They come with a "croc" link for splitting the tracks. Maybe this option was removed after pre-production ~ Proto-types were introduced? Or maybe just on the New U.K Dozers? I would think the system would eliminate idler surface cracking and spitting a track now and then A Finning guy told me they work better on un~suspended running gear. Also more suited to reclamation~soil~Landfill work than Hard Quarry work. Ross
So they may take a special press to do basic maintenace? Does that mean I have to hire the dealer to bust my tracks whenever I mid life or change undercarriage? That doesn't seem to be much of a savings to me. My mechanic for $40 per hour or the dealer for $1,000 per call out. I'm also wondering if rocks packing into the links can pop the track off. I've seen lots of hard rock that will fit in the links and will not break from the pressure between the idlers and the track chain. Could this bust idler wheels and shafts? Am I reading Mr. Hamper's post correctly in saying that the bushings rotate? I like the idea of not having to turn pins and bushings but what if the bushings get locked. I've heard the rotating bushings don't work in fine material. They lock up and then wear out in short order. So far I haven't heard enough answers that would convince me to change a machine over without monetary guarantees. Has anyone heard of Cat incentive programs for changing? Thanks for the information so far. I'm learning!
A clamp-style master link is available for certain machines, I think.
System 1 Some input on a few of the previous comments... Yes, the System 1 bushings rotate, thereby eliminating need for a turn. System 1 comes from Cat without a split master link, but one is available as an option at time of machine purchase. It can also be ordered thru the parts dept of your local Cat dealer. It is not advertised and is usually "upon request". Caterpillar had a few manufacturing "glitches" when they first began production of this system, and some of these resulted in chipping and cracking of select components. This was highly accelerated in high impact areas. From what I have been told, these problems were addressed quickly and the System 1 machines you see coming out now should be fine. If your local Cat dealer has been tracking your undercarriage wear and has its' expected wear life on file, they should be willing to extend a wear life guarantee of 1.5 times what a convential system would be expected to deliver. This is actually a fairly safe gamble on Caterpillars part. The System 1 tracks are very likely to last much longer than that. Hope this helps. Be safe!
I understand the bushing rotates- how is pin wear addressed?
Yeah the "croc" link as we call them. Best feature of the CAT Dozer~Track loaders. :notworthy :notworthy Similar System - one type track have been used for a few years on large mining shovels (RH120-E Full Cleat type) Fully floating. Easy to rip down when needed They also stretch more than normal Track~Pad combos. Jurys still out on them :beatsme I think and Dozer applications will make or break the design.
System 1 Pin Wear This link system is assembled and seviced as a series of "boxes". If something goes wrong on a single link or bushing, that box is replaced. The boxes are assembled at the Caterpillar facility, not the dealer. They are put together in a clean room environment, with synthetic oil. They are also using a new design of seal that, in theory, will last much longer and resist wear, leakage and contamination much better.
The seals on the rotating bushings are about the only thing I can see that would give you trouble. If a seal failed you would wear out the pin and bushing, but it sounds like you could then just replace the link assembly that failed. I don't like the idea of having a cat mechaninc come out just to split the track, but i'm sure they will have the problems worked out of a master link soon if they don't already. I would think that some clever individuals could build there own press to press the links apart if they had to. I guess only time will tell how well the system holds up.
My thought is if you press the pin out to repair final drive or for some other reason.What happens to the oil in the sealed pin and rotating bushing. When you put it back togather there is more then pressing it in and out.You will have to reseal it and fill back with oil.Ones this has been done it is never like when they first come from the factory sealed and ready to go. If it leaks ,the next thing you have a dry pin,which tends to shorten the length of wear. One of the Cat Groundbreaker magizines i got had info on the system one tracks and they mentioned having a masterlink,but not recomended for high impact use! If i was to go to the system one tracks i would get the masterlink for me<but again i work in low impact soils and no rock except a few stray one mixed in with the clay and black dirt here.:usa
Stay away from System One!!! My best friend is a field service tech for my local cat dealership and he has nothing good to say about it. He has told me that when you are using a dozer to side cut large stockpiles the dirt runs into your chains and gets packed between the idlers and the pins making your tracks extremely tight. He has also told me stories where rocks have gotten between the chain and idlers and broke the shaft in the idlers. He says there is no place for small objects to go now and you constantly compress the track springs. Just telling you what he told me.
Thanks for the info. When i was clearing trees digging them out and the dirt was realy dry blackdirt.The tracks would pop because the rails was getting full of dirt compacted.Usually was not backing back and fore to far ,just cutting roots. I have broken the recoil spring tubes on my D6H .Cat guys just told me a guy broke one on his D6R the other day.Luckly they put them in a jig and welded them up and haven't had a problem since. Snow will compact bad also and make the tracks get tight and pop.:usa
What makes humps on front idler got system one it
I was told by cat the front idler is that way to make it quieter. I have a d6k with 5400 hr on it and it needs tracks as most of the pins are dry and seal is visable. Waiting to see what total price is going to be.
I've seen a few machines that had the bumps on the new idlers. I don't know if that is current production.
The idlers run on the bushings, not the rails, so as they wear, its near impossible for them to stay round.
Currently there are procedure in Cat SIS to convert the system on into the conventional undercarriage system, We have done converting some Cat D8 and D6 here. The cost is quite huge but its better than have to facing with unscheduled machine downtime due to undercarriage problem
We have a few Sys 1 machines at work. Pros are no mid-life downtime for pin/bushing turn, run it till it's junk and replace it. If a section goes dry, it's easy to check, just feel the links once a day after lunch, you'll know a bad cartridge long before it fails completely. They make a master link of sorts that clamps on the cartridge when the shoes is installed, makes it real easy to split tracks. The front roller is notched so it rolls with the tracks, with a rotating bushing it will slide if it aint notched when it is working in wet conditions. ( we know this from having some of the early sys 1 ) We have had a few issues with cartridges going dry, but only near end of life on them and even then the dealer got us some factory help dollars wise.
Interesting hoopla about system one, as though it was something new. This is basically the same system that Cletrac used beginning early 1900's only system was dry. Front idlers were two separate wheels that carried the rails. Arrangement worked ok, biggest issues were the floating pin bushings were hard on the links due to side loads that caused them to bore into the links. Had the conventional press pin master links.
well got the word today your d6t with 3338 hr on the great system one is junk??? cat will pay part to change it over to salt rails .my part is apx.$ 15.000.oo dollars i wanted to try the newest system one with center hole pads and the new style front and rear idlers ??but was tould i would have to pay for the new pads and idlers would cost me apx, $ 12.000.oo todo that ???????
I run the system one undercarriage on my 07 d6r. You bust the track much like a normal chain link. There is a master link of sorts. It's not the croc style but actually is easy to do. Each side of the link comes off the pins and the track comes apart. No press or special tools. Just take the pad bolts out and remove the pad on the master and also the pad directly behind the master
how many hrs have you been able toget out of yours ? there are 3 upgrades of the system one we are tould ? do you know what yours are ?have you had any problems ??? thanks ron
Mine is system one series 2. Has a 6000hr warranty on this set. I got 5500 hrs out of the original set.
did cat help pay any on the first set we were tould when we bought the tractor we would get 12000 hr now at 3300 hr they want us to go to the heavy duty salt ralis they will pay two thirds of the cost
System one idlers are round from the factory. They get the "humps" in them from running on the pins. This only happens on the front idlers and only if you don't rotate them front to back like you should on any undercarriage.
No they aren't, and no they don't. The humps are to ensure the bushes don't roll round the idler if the idler is frozen or jammed with mud. Unless you have the option with the stepped idler where the idler runs on the rails. Don't know if this is still offered, there have been so many variations.
Well when I got mine from cat both front and back were smooth and I questioned it. They told me the humps are not factory just normal wear on the front. But I'm not going to argue with you. Just stating what the dealership told me
you are right on this just seen mine today and even with 3300 hr and 11 dry boxs the idlers are still smooth
Cat says 6000 hr. We just got tracks on our d6k had 5500 hr and they gave us a bit of a brake. It had what they call thrust bias were. The rails spred and expose the seal and they go dry.
Does anyone know if there is a link-as that would work in place of the system one for the D6K? maybe its cuz i'm running 30" pads on harder ground but i'm not impressed. Trying to find something with 24" pads.
You can run the heavy duty undercarriage on that machine. Just requires some trim work with a torch where the idlers mount. Nothing major really.
I've been looking all over SIS but there's nothing for the D6K. The only one ive found that i think might work is the 110-2976 for D6N. same amount of links as mine but my concern is the width of the rail. will it fit on my system one rollers. I know the pitch is the same. I asked my local dealer but its been a few days and havent heard from him again.