Any feedback pos or neg on the idlers running inside the rails, or the overal preformance of Sysyem1, should stop the dimples in the rail links. Pic is from a D6T in Tues. RB auction in Sacramento
This is new to me DPete.Interesting rail design,looks like this new system1 rails are made like regular roller chain with inner & outer links where as the old rail system is made up of a series of half links.I notice a wear pattern on both inner and outer links from what must be from the bottom rollers but I cant tell,any other pictures of this new system,maybe of the bottom rollers & sprocket.I guess every other grouser pad would have a different bolt pattern due to this design.
From what Ive read about it it is supposed to all wear out together, has rotating bushes so they never need turning, idlers run on the bushes so they dont hollow out the rails etc. Think its only available in the smaller machines D6 and under, not made for severe impact conditions that larger machines work in. Komatsu also have their system out cant remember what its called but looks like a copy of the system One. Cheers RDG.
From what I've heard (and this is total heresay, I have never run a tractor with this u/c) most of the horror stories regarding System One undercarriage relate to the fact that is that it's not designed to work in high impact/high abrasion conditions yet people put it in said conditions then bitch when it falls apart. I know it's not available on anything bigger than D6 right now, but also whispers that it could be coming on the D8 as well. There is a lot of current Service Literature regarding SystemOne and AFAIK the design has been upgraded and modified over the years since it was first introduced. If you were interested in buying a specific tractor equipped with tihs type of u/c then my first call would be to the local dealer and ask him are there any product upgrades kicking around for that particular machine. Looking at Service Literature the most recent document (only 10 days old) is titled "Procedures To Convert SystemOne Undercarriage to Heavy Duty Undercarriage on Certain D6R and D6T Track-Type Tractors Are Now Available" - draw your own conclusions ........
Thanks for the explanation RDG &Nige.Sounds like this system 1 chain is similar to the chain we use on the elevating scraper with the rotating bushings and the idlers running on the bushings.Works good on the elevating scraper,dont know if it would be the same on a dozer.Lot more load & pressure on dozer chain .
Found this on you tube, gives a better look at the UC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmFpJfCaLdM
I've seen it out quite a bit in the last two or three years. The jury is apparently still out on the longevity and total cost per hour. When it stays together is lasts longer than any track design I've ever seen. Pins and bushings never need to be turned. Track adjustment is seldom done and the stuff is quiet and not squeaky when things get dry. Six thousand hours is not an uncommon life span. The issues I've heard of and seen concern service work on it. I've been told new tracks don't have master links and that there are specific new service tools to allow working on it. I've also heard that the press rigs have been changing over time. This might be a good thing if a track never has a problem but if you have a track adjuster issue or problem with an idler, a call to the dealer is your only option for repair. The link and seal systems are complex, so there is no way for a shade tree wrench to accomplish a lasting repair. Bottom line, if I were looking to purchase a new machine, I'd look real hard at it. It's been out long enough that many of the bugs have been modified out. I've heard there is a master link available now for them and I don't think I would buy a machine with that system that didn't have them.
Thanks for the info John, I would never be satisfied without a master link, so much easier. Sounds like everything else these days, more complicated and more to go wrong.
I've just looked at the Serivce Procedure to separate a SystemOne track. OMG ........ A total of 37 pieces of 14 separate part numbers, one of which is a 1/2" stroke pancake-type hydraulic cylinder. Yes you heard that right - 1/2" stroke. According to the procedure "Tooling (J) has a 12.7 mm (0.50 inch) stroke. It will be necessary to stroke the hydraulic cylinder many times during the removal process". Thanks, I'll pass on that one ................
That don't sound like any fun at all.
Nige you are very corect they are a pain to split without the new master links you need at least 2 guys to get it done. Also if you are running in rocky conditions they do not last as long as salt tracks they seem to break alot more.
Thanks for posting the video DPete.I was having trouble visualizing how the inner and outer chain rails still mated evenly on the bottom roller flange. I also noticed what looked like grease fittings in each pin.I'm sure they do run quiet & may even save some fuel due to the roller bushing allowing everything to turn a little easier over that many hours of operation.I wonder if its the roller bushing that fails in the rocky conditions or the rail itself?
They're not grease fittings. It's the plastic plug/stopper in the end of the pin through which the pin/seal assembly is lubricated.
System one U/C is made for machines up to a D8. I would say over 90% of new D6's I see have it and about 25% of D8 have it. In fact we have done 8 or 10 D8 conversions the last few years. I haven't done one or been involved that close but i know there is bunch of welding on the track frames (weld plates to close up frame around top of idler) and final drive bolts welded up and re-drilled for the system one segments along with a few other things. As for the master link the original design is terrible and you could spend hours removing or installing they changed that a few years ago. I believe its called Clamp Master and is SO simple I prefer it over the old style "alligator style". You remove the one pad and tap the links off or on(1 to the inside and 1 to the outside). I use a regular medium (maybe 2.5lb) hammer and very little effort. Less than 10% of system one dozers we see doesn't have the Clamp Master installed. Last week I did run into a D6T getting dry pins fixed and it had the old style master. I don't even look for the press and tooling because instead of spending hours messing around I cut the links in half and our track shop will send back the track with the Clamp Master links instead.
We have seen around 20 different machines in our shop with the system one u/c. Because they don't always have master links on them we use our portable track press with home made press tooling which works really well. We have seen some machines with system one that have done well and some that have failed early (2000 hrs). We have converted a few back to the heavy duty undercarriage because the cost of the system one replacement is very costly. The key to converting them back to the heavy duty undercarriage is the bolt pattern on the track pads. Since the system one chains have a different bolt patterns the pads have to be purchased too when converting back to the heavy duty u/c. For all of you who buy used equipment. I do know that the warranty doesn't follow the machine after the original owner sells it. I have some customers who have bought used dozers with system one and have talked to cat about warranty and cat will not do anything for them. The only components we have seen fail are the chains. We have seen a couple chains with broken links but most come in with early seal failure with a few bad sections. They are fairly easy to repair with a track press. I have seen one Komatsu D61PX-15 with the "Komatsu Plus" undercarriage. It had one bad joint. The Komatsu Plus undercarriage is almost identical to the system one. Each have the same theory and design. I was always told if I didn't have anything nice to say then don't say it at all so I will keep my opinions to myself. Thanks, Quicktrax