This one has me puzzled. Got a T450 that started throwing code E001076-16 and shutting down. This progressively got worse. Troubleshot the issue down to a wasp stuck in the fuel pick-up elbow at the fuel tank. Unit ran fine for a couple days, then next morning no start. I primed the filter and it started, but not right away. The filter and housing holds pressure, I bypassed the bypass vale and still have the issue. I removed the fuel cooler from the circuit, still have the issue. I plumbed in a new line from the filler neck to the primer bulb in order to bypass the tank pickup line, still have the issue. There are no restrictions between the tank and pump inlet. At first I was thinking it was losing prime, but if you shut down and then immediately try to restart, it won't start. I'm thinking the restriction in the fuel line caused cavitation in the fuel pump, and now it can't pump enough to get started. However, once the machine starts, it runs fine. The other thing I'm thinking is something is wrong with the inlet metering valve. No smoke when when cranking and there's power to glow plugs. I did get code E000157-10 (rail pressure fault) while cranking. I'm guessing that the ECM is intelligent enough to realize the engine has not started, and has also determined that the rail pressure is not at the desired value after a given amount of time. Anyone want to enlighten me?
Not starting easily and runs well once started is usually a rail pressure issue. what is the feed pump pressure? If not enough fuel is getting to the high pressure pump then you will have that problem. PRV could be bad and dumping your rail pressure. One or more injectors could be returning to much fuel. Feed pump pressure and rail pressure while cranking will tell the part of the story. If you can get those numbers please post.
Looks to be a Delphi DFP 4.4 pump, with integrated low pressure pump. Is there a way to get a rail pressure reading other than through the use of the Bobcat Service Analyzer? A Delphi tool maybe?
That is the only way to see rail pressure. Its possible to use a manual gauge but it will need to be a special gauge hoses and fittings.
I just had something similar on a Deere engine. Low rail pressure code when cranking and rail pressure fault when running. In my case it was the suction control valve (prv) had previously gone bad and took out the rail relief valve. At suggestion from this site, removed rail relief pipe going back to return, should be zero flow, and mine was dumping fuel even when cranking a dead engine. Replaced both parts with updated versions and all is well. So if it is not too hard to do, you could maybe check the rail relief for fuel bypassing.
Just a reminder. HPCR systems have extremely high pressure. Don't feel for leaks with your hands and wait at least 5 minutes before opening any connections on the system. You do not want to get hydraulically injected with fuel.
Unfortunately with out software your really going to just be guessing. The prv and rail pressure sensor are not terrible to expensive to take a educated guess at changing. After that its worth having the dealer plug in and give you a definitive diagnosis. Everything that would ne left is not cheep. Injectors are coded and you cant just replace an injector or injectors with out coding new injectors to the cpu. The pump is expensive and i would pay to have it replaced so you can capture the warranty on a new pump. Those pumps are supper supper supper sensitive to contamination. Does not take much to wear down the super tight tolerances inside them. Sucks but thats the way of the future. The diy mechanic cant do much anymore with out software
Just fyi some say prv some say fca. Bobcat/doosan call it a inlet fuel metering valve. Just so you know what to tell your parts guy. Those guys get confused enough already with out throwing some non bobcat slang at them
I would not replace the inlet valve without some attempt at testing to confirm that it is the problem first. No sense opening up the sterile fuel pump if it is not necessary. From Deere it is not cheap at all but maybe that is just Deere being who they are.
You can get the valve/sensor for the delphi system from a few suppliers. Napa ordered me in one last time. Its used on so many manufacturers engines its just about as common as a bosch cp3. As long as you clean the area around the valve first there is no issue with removing the valve. I keep one as a tester since we have had a few fail. Brake clean it real good around the area and never had an issue. Your opening it up and time you change a fuel filter. Its the same system and he has already opened his system up by doing his testing removing fuel lines and bypassing. Fuel systems just get contamination from adding fuel and your fuel source etc etc . that' just the nature of the beast all be it you can do your part to mitigate how much. At this point you got nothing to loose but your time and the cost of the part.
How do you tell which is the right aftermarket one? On the Deere one we could not see any kind of part numbers. Of course Deere paint slathered all over everything.
I could not find any tech data on the Delphi 4.4 pump, but I did find info on the 3.x series which appears to be very similar. I took the cover off the low pressure pump section. Looks like water got past the o-ring under the cover and started corrosion. I also took out the Pressure Limiter Valve and it was pretty corroded and contaminated as well. Ordered a reman pump, installed it, issue still persists. Since this Delphi common rail setup has no pressure relief valve as this is managed through the inlet metering valve, which was replaced as a new one came with the pump, this really only leaves me with injectors and the rail itself/rail pressure sensor. I bet whatever contamination that was in the pump is also lodged in the injectors. I guess it is time to find someone with a service analyzer tool.
Have you tested injector return/bypass rate yet?
I had the same problem on a 2016 T450. Would only start if you pumped up the bulb... then would run for about 3-5 seconds and die. Then the 1076-16 code. I had replaced the filter (so that wasn't it)... I then removed the inlet metering valve and cleaned with carb/choke cleaner, then tapped the bottom against a hard surface a few times (to shake it loose)... reinstalled and it worked for a few minutes. This told me it was indeed the metering valve. Ordered one from Diesel Pro (7256772 | Delphi Fuel Metering Valve Fits Doosan Bobcat Tier 3/4). Was $209.00... Bobcat wanted $911! Installed the new one and worked great. Remember to clean well around the pump before you remove and use a little (clean) engine oil on the O-rings each time you install.
Good deal there lee lee. Its crazy stupid paying bobcat top dollar for any doosan parts when they can sourced from other companies for usually a 3rd elsewhere.
Just FYI. We use texa and you can perform every function on the doosan. You don't need someone with service advisor. Call any diesel shop ask if they texa or equivalent and the doosan cable. The ecm and software is also delphi. So most shops can do the engine work since Delphi owns 1/2 the diesel supply market. Again no point in paying bobcat rates. You need someone that's capable with software. You cant get a proper answer with out it. Your just guessing. You could have paid 100 bucks and ruled out the high pressure pump/ fca with the push of one key and test your injector flow and contribution the same way. Either way you cant just change a bad injector yourself. Changing the pump probably did little anyway since you cant tell the ecm it needs to do a relearn to compensate for the fuel shift. You cant just swap out most parts on tier4i tier 4 final engine. Just does not work that way anymore
This is the doosan interface cable that is needed. You might find some one with the software and may not have the patch cable.
Good info here, wish i would have stumbled across this a few month back! I have a 2015 t450, my issue first was a intermiten no start, but ran perfect once started, until it didnt and is now not starting at all, and now i have been thru the ringer with this dang thing. First tried common issues like fuel filter and priming lines, wiggling wires with the occasionally starting and running fine, and didnt seem to be anything specific i did that got it started , so far probably got it started about 8times and ran fine, then no restart after killing it. Brought it to bobcat which was a huge waist of time, first got me for a new battery even tho i just tested mine before i gave it to them but i said ok anway, and before we even get it off the trailer the mechanic already diagnose it with out even opening the hatch and claims its most likely the hole fuel systems toast, and just ignored me as i telling him it runs great once it starts.... next day calls and claims hes right.$13-15k and they will fix it. ***. So i keep tinkering on it when i have time, had a good old school mechanic helping me, he first had me replace every fuel line and fitting, even the fuel filter housing, and still no start, at one point it does start up and ran for awhile and once john my mechanic helper seen that he was confident it wasnt the fuel pump,rail, or injectors, so went thru and started to clean all wire connections and discovered the fuse block corroded so went ahead and changed it which included the main wire harness to darn near everything. Still no start so we check again for fuel at the injectors which we just crack open while cranking and see if air is present, and there was, after priming the last one it fires right up, left it run a hr or so with no issues even drove it around for 15min, but no restart, i checked for air at the injectors again and found more air! Havnt got it to start again and my starter gets way to hot by the time i get air out of them all. Am i wrong for thinking because it runs fine the injectors and fuel rail couldnt be the issue. I ordered a couple different fuel testers, the first was supposed to be for all delphi systems but of course bobcat had a different plug and now im waiting on a high pressure gauge thats supposed to come with the appropriate plumbing to fasten it to the, added the links to those below. Ill update if the other works. My biggest question right now is where is that air comming from? pump. https://www.ebay.com/itm/0-250Mpa-C...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0 https://www.ebay.com/itm/CR508S-Die...p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
It's most likely one or more injectors. Common rail fuel systems need a certain amount of pressure before the computer allows the injectors to fire (10,000psi). If you have one or more injectors returning to much fuel then it will not let it start. You will have to isolate your fuel return from the injectors and common rail and measure what is returning to the tank. The rail shouldn't have any fuel returning but a tiny amount is acceptable. No more than what it takes to fill a thimble. Your injectors shouldn't return more than 8 ounces while cranking or running. If you are returning to much fuel from the rail then you will need to replace the rail, pressure sensor, and relief valve. If your injectors are returning to much fuel then it's best to change them all. There are ways to isolate each injector to see which one is returning to much fuel. But that takes special block off caps and those can be hard to find. Be careful when opening any part of the fuel system from the rail to the injectors. You do not want to get hydraulically injected with fuel. Look up hydraulic injection on you tube and you will see why. And if you haven't done it yet I would start with the rail pressure sensor. That is a cheap and easy fix if indeed your sensor is bad. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Dang thanks for the quick response. I reprimed everything and nothin then i decided to do somethin i normally wouldnt and put a small shot of starting fluid in the air box and it fired right up and is idling/revs as it should. Bit 10 bucks say it wont start again, i was going to let it run for a while then see. I half way thoght i was fighting air from fuel cooler.
If it is possible try squeezing off the return line and see if it will start. That will tell you if you are returning to much fuel. By the way... Common rail fuel systems hate anything but clean fuel. Water and dirt are the enemy.
Great thanks for the tips
Turned it off and no start again. Pinched off the return line from the injectors and it didnt help it start. I first tried while it was running to see what it would do and imediatly started leaking at the injectors. So i turned it off and tried and no start
I should have said to restrict the return line. You don't want to block it off completely. And I am not familiar with your engine. How many lines of return do you have if there is three then that probably wouldn't work. If your fuel pump is returning through the same lines then it wouldn't work by restricting the return line.
All the injectors go to one line and goes to the high pressure pump, looks like from there it goes up to the cooler
This is why you need to isolate the returns. You need to be able to see what is returning to much fuel. It also helps to have software to see what the rail pressure is. Unfortunately this is usually stealership territory. Some independent shops might be able to help.
The rail does not have a return.
Can you post pics of your fuel system. The rail should have a relief valve to protect from over pressurization. And it has to relieve the fuel somewhere.
Great info about the texa and the Doosan cable, I will look into that, thank you. I disagree about the High Pressure Pump, that thing was toast. Yes, it still pumped fuel, but if I were to have replaced anything downstream from it, such as injectors, they would have ultimately failed very rapidly due to the contamination residing in the high pressure pump. And, there's nothing to program when changing the high pressure fuel pump. Yes, you can change most parts without a computer on new diesel engines. Ultimately the machine I was working on was brought to Bobcat, supposedly dealer found massive contamination in fuel rail and was going to replace the rail and injectors. I suspect the machine I was working on was a flood victim judging by the amount of contamination found in the high pressure fuel pump, and the fact that the gentleman that owned it, purchased it on ebay sight unseen.
Joe, Here are two pictures, first is a diagram of your fuel system, second is a picture with #1 pointing to your fuel return line, which returns fuel back to your fuel pump. If I were you, I would first pull the fuel pickup tube out of your fuel tank, and, take the tube off the metal elbow and look for something stuck inside. Run a wire or something through it just to be sure it is clear. Did Bobcat show you why they thought the fuel system was 'toast?' What is the history on your machine? Where did you get it? What's the serial number on your machine, did you look it up and see if you could find any history on online, such as if it was auctioned off before the guy that sold it to you bought it?
FWIW. I had a Deere 4045 with common rail problems that was ultimately traced to the pressure control valve taking out the rail relief valve. I replaced both of those and it lived on well, if a little smoky. The insides of the parts replaced were kind of muddy rust. They had 2 primary filters 30 micron instead of a 2 micron secondary, and plenty of water in fuel. So that common rail system really took some abuse and kept on ticking. I am not going to recommend anybody do this though.
I bought My machine from United rentals and beyond that idk. Has about 1300hrs, i have replaced every fuel line and fitting/valve including the fuel cooler, fuel filter housing, fuel filter, also did the metering valve, fuse block which includes main wire harness, battery, cleaned every connection/ground, cam sensor, crank sensor. My next step was to change the computor and or the other half of the wire harness, maybe more other sensors. But then i found air in the line at the injectors again, before that we came to the conclusion that we were getting plenty of fuel just the computer isn't allowing the injectors to fire, no smoke coming from exhaughst.. It will start with a shot of starting fluid and will run just fine.
Is the sensor on the end of the fuel rail replaceable, dealer only shows the hole fuel rail... anyone got the part#s.
A lot of these parts are available through other than manufacturer channels at a fraction of the price. But every new machine is a sleuth hunt to figure it out. I seem to remember some Australian and European shops on the internet are selling these parts. More common over there because they have more small diesel cars with similar engines.
I bet thepumpguysc will know where to find those parts.
Any one know if the fuel pump comes out as easy as it looks... i see 3 nuts holding it on but idk if that gear on the end of the shaft comes out with it or do i got to access the back nut
Did you figure out your issue yet ?
Please could tell me what item 7 is in the first picture and its purposes ?? Many thanks