I recently bought a Takeuchi TB135, used with about 4800 hours on it. That machine has a few issues and im working on taking care of them. I checked compression and got 350 psi, 385 psi, and 315 psi, a little oil in the cylinder brought each up by about 15 psi, with the third coming up about to about 360 psi. So my compression is a little low but i dont think low enough that it would cause low power issues. I also adjusted my valves to spec (0.15mm), some were pretty far off as bad as 0.95mm. I also cleaned the fuel tank, and filters and fuel lines. Cleaned the injectors and confirmed they all sprayed a good pattern with them hooked to the FI pump before putting them back in the engine. So my problem is that while tracking the engine will bog down and if i don't back off will stall the engine. High speed will barely go anywhere other than downhill without stalling it. It seems to have plenty of power digging and doesnt really bog the engine down unless im basically in an immovable position. Also if i take a function like curl for example and hold the curl down after full curl is met, it will start to bog down some, and possibly stall if i hold it there long enough. Just looking for some advice, does this sound like an engine problem, or a hydraulics issue? Biggest symptom is that while tracking it bogs the engine and eventually stalls it if im going up a grade or in high gear. I havent done much investigating in to the hydraulics side, been focusing on getting the engine tuned up. It does start a little hard in the cold, the previous owner had been using ether sparingly, i finally got it to start in the cold today but it took a good bit of cranking. I did confirm that the manifold heater is working as well. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
What rpm are you running at? Do you have power- economy switch’s? Did you check air filter?
Its running at full throttle, i didn't confirm what RPM that is, but it seems about right. The air filter had a mouse house in it when i got it, but i cleaned it out, so air filter is good.
Did the mice get inside the filter?
Physically inspect the entire prefilter assembly, including the inlet outlet elbows. Also, verify no restriction from tank to prefilter. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many times my takeuchis have had fuel line restrictions. It's not Takeuchi's fault that all my moron coworkers install dirt, rocks, and straw into the fuel systems. And, throw out the tank neck strainer.
Does it smoke when it bogs down?
IDK what inj. pump is on your machine but it sounds like a classic case of air or fuel restriction.. MAKE SURE your getting FULL THROTTLE & the lever is hitting the stop screw.. SAME goes for the SHUT-OFF lever.. MAKE SURE the sol. isn't holding the lever partially "on".. Just pull the air cleaner/cleaners when testing the system..
The mice didnt get inside the filter luckily, i cleaned it out and put it back on, but i have a new filter to put in too. Ill run it next time with the filter out to confirm air restriction isnt an issue. I thought it seemed like a fuel restriction problem too, thats why i drained the tank, blew the lines out and a replaced the lift pump. So i'm fairly confident that my system should be clean up to the FI pump. Im pretty sure its hitting the full throttle stop but obviously i cant see it from the operator seat so ill double check that. I have the throttle linkage apart right now to fix some sloppy connections there. I also had the solenoid off to confirm it was working, it is operating but as for whether its going all the way i guess i don't know for sure. It had also been operated without the fuel filter installed at the engine, it only had the prefilter/water separator at the tank. I installed the filter assembly at the engine. Is there anything that would need adjusted in the fuel pump other than timing? Or is there a good way to tell if my pump is partially clogged or something? Its a small 3 cylinder Yanmar engine. I havent noticed any smoke when it bogs down but ill take a closer look next time i run it.
I'm not. Go to post #2 on this thread and see if you can rig up a fuel pressure test, the number isn't as important as whether it drops off when it bogs down. HeavyEquipmentForums If your fuel pressure tests good, then you move to the next issue. Post a pic or the numbers off your injection pump and thepumpguy might have something to suggest. Did you check for screens in banjo bolts?
Well i will be the odd guy out again...are you sure your problem is not hydraulic...if the pumps are not adjusting with load sense pressure and destroking....the engine does not have enough hp to run pumps at full stroje.
Ill give that a try, i assume i want to Tee in to the supply line right before the FI pump? I did not check for a screen in the Banjo, ill check that too. It is a Yanmar 3TNE88 engine, here is a link to a picture that shows what the FI pump looks like. I can get a picture of mine later today. https://www.truck1-us.com/new-and-used/spare-parts/engines/yanmar-3tne88-a1824370.html Im not sure that it couldn't be a hydraulic issue, and thought that that could be the issue, but i dont know what to check in the hydraulics to make sure they are functioning correctly.
Yes. Is that the transfer pump mounted below the injection pump? if the inlet fitting on that is a banjo bolt, then check that one first to see if there's something inside it. Or where ever the fuel line from the tank goes to the transfer pump. Rondig could be right, I just guess at what I know, he can suggest something else. IF it DOES blow black smoke when it stalls, then ignore me.
That was just a generic picture, mine has a lift pump over by the tank, my fuel system is the same from the filter to the FI pump as in the picture, and that is a Banjo at the FI pump inlet so i will check that too when i do the pressure check.
The pressure test is a dam good idea.. Most folks don't have the tools or material laying around so "I" don't suggest that very often..but in your case where the machine starts & runs, u need to do some real world diagnostics..{pressure test} weather it be fuel and/or hydro. pressure. The banjo bolt coming out of the return line is an overflow valve.. a pressure valve w/ a spring & ball.. Its "supposed to" hold gallery pressure in the pump to make sure the pumping plungers have constant/enough fuel to pump.. {about 25psi} If/when u do the fuel pressure check & its low, its either the overflow valve OR/AND the lift pump. Good luck & let us know what u find..
Did the pressure test, had about 2.5 to 3 psi. I put it in high speed and trammed forward until it stalled and the pressure stayed up around 2.5 psi. Also ran it with the air filter pulled out, and no smoke of any color really noticeable when it stalls. Link to Video https://www.flickr.com/photos/145002116@N06/shares/LcZ174 Checked the banjo bolt on the FI pump feed line, no screen in it and it was pretty clean. It did actually seem to tram around a little bit better tonight, in low gear it didn't seem to bog down as much especially after it had warmed up and i moved around a little. While tracking though the power in high gear seemed sort of intermittent, it would be running nice and strong on level ground, but if i tried turning just one track it would not move at all sometimes but you could hear that it was trying. If i had some momentum going and went to one track it seemed to go ok, but from a stop if i tried one track it would not move, but also not bog the engine down while trying. In low gear it would move one track fine. Could it be bad final drives? Also had a question about the FI pump, in the last picture attached there is a silver cylinder covering what i think is the fuel adjustment screw, is that some kind of tamperproof cover so you cant turn your fuel up?
That pressure seems low to me.. try pressurizing the fuel tank while tracking.. gonna need a helper to ride along for that one.. OR try pressurizing it in the garage & see if the pressure rises on the gauge.. Yes, that cap is the fuel adjustment.
Does this machine have a turbo? If so, best quick test to see how much boost while running. If it drops while bogging down you can then further investigate fuel air. If it stays up its hydraulic.
The 88 series Yanmar in the Deere mini's only runs about 1.5-3 psi fuel pressure so I would expect that to be the same on the Takeuchi.
No turbo on this one. If im not seeing any hint of black smoke at all when the engine is loaded would it be worth adjusting the fuel screw at all? I dont really think that is my problem but just in general for a tired engine would it be worth tuning it up a hair? If so how do you get that little cover off the screw? It doesn't seem to come off easily. Like MG said i think the 2.5-3 PSI is what youd expect on this, it is about what the machine in the video that was referenced above was running at too before it dropped.
You did look THROUGH the BOLT right? the screen would be threaded inside the bolt if there was one, the picture doesn't show through the bolt so I have to ask. What have you investigated with the hydraulics? Have you changed or visually checked the filter for debris? I don't know the machine so I'm no help on specifics. The fuel is easier, so I start there.
I wasn't referencing that inlet...and, that one doesn't have a screen. I referenced the inlet elbows at the water separator. I have had them plugged 90%. Also had the tank outlet on my TL150s plugged. I circled where the separator inlet elbow is that gets plugged. Not only has it gotten plugged on all 8 of my Takeuchis (TL150, TB180FR, TB53FR, & TB035), it also got plugged in my SVL75 & SVL75-2. On mine, it has always been debris installed during fueling (after dragging the fuel nozzle through the mud, rock, and straw), and elimination of the filler neck strainer.
Had a load check valve stuck on the boom circuit on my TB53FR. It made the hydraulics load early and the machine sluggish, but, exhaust smoke darkened a lot before the engine would begin to stall (drop significant rpm). What I'm getting at is, I'd try fuel from a can right into the electric pump inlet to rule out a supply issue, unless the engine labors to stall as opposed to just petering out.
Yeah nothing inside the bolt either. I really haven't done anything with the hydraulics yet other than pulling the filter to check and topping off the hydraulic tank fluid. Not sure what all to check other than some pressures, i do have a 5K PSI gauge so i can start checking them i probably just need some adapter fittings.
heymccall i cleaned the separator out when i drained the tank, i also blew air through all the lines, including the elbows on the separator. So i think im good from the tank to the engine. The pressure test did show i was maintaining 2-3 PSI right before the FI pump even when the engine stalls out. When im in 2nd speed if i try to move one track at a time it would usually not be able to move that track. It wouldn't stall the engine either, it just wouldn't move the track. While moving if i switched to a single track it would keep moving fine. It would mostly just stall if i was in high gear going straight, up a slight grade, or even in low gear up a steeper grade.
I still think it is hydraulic...does it stall when you max out stick and boom or is it just the tracks
Hi, it sounds to me to be more of a hydraulic issue, the motor is being over run by the pump, need model of the pump, but it should have a pc regular, there should be a adjusting screw 5 Allen key with a counter nut 10 0r 13 wrench. I would carefully turn it out 1/8 at a time, after each adjust, hydraulics testing on full stroke.
Well i didn't do much with it yesterday since it was so cold outside, but i did confirm that the fitting on the fuel pump where the return line connects does have a check valve in it and it is functional. It will bring the engine down a little if i max out curl, but wont really stall it, it mostly stalls when tracking. So im not ruling out a hydraulic issue, i just dont know how to troubleshoot that as well. Are you talking about adjusting a relief valve? I don't have the pump model but i can get it. What would be the first things to check hydraulically to troubleshoot?
Did a little messing around with it tonight, i got my throttle linkage all put back together so with the warmer weather this weekend i should be able to get it out and test it out a little more. Its been tough trying to test anything with the linkage all apart and the throttle lever not working. One thing that i discovered while messing with the joysticks. The Aux buttons were missing from my joystick so i got a replacement, three wires, two hot one ground, with the key on i touch one hot to the ground and the solenoid clicks. Same with the other hot to ground, solenoid clicks so i figured they were working i just need to wire up the new joystick buttons. I tried this again today with the engine running and when i touch them together the engine dies immediately. I would have assumed that with the aux ports plugged if the solenoid is activated it should just activate a relief valve, but it seems as though something isnt right there.
Well it is a gear pump that runs aux...so dead head will kill most small machines...even my kx080 kubota will really grunt if i hit buttons
Ok well thats good to know that at least thats not another problem so far.
If it stalls when you bottom out a cylinder I would say your pump is not de-stroking
How would i test it to determine if it is destroking correctly?
The only way I know is with a flow meter
So ive been using this excavator a little here and there, but never really found a solution to my problem. It has continued to be sluggish and would stall the engine occasionally and would barely be able to track in high range especially up hill, but it seemed inconsistent, sometimes it would track nice with power, other times it would seem sluggish. I ended up blowing a hydraulic hose to the dipper arm, and with the engine running the blown hose was spurting fluid continuously even when not using that function, it would spray more if i used that function. That didnt seem right to me as im usred to my tractor or dozer that if a line blows it will leak whats left in it but if you dont use that function it doesnt really continue to flow out. I put a new line on and didnt think too much of it. Then my brother was using it the other day and he said he hit one of the aux buttons and one of the aux lines out on the boom blew. Like the other one he said it kept spraying all the time as if it was under partial pressure all the time. He was able to partially plug it off to drive it back to his house, but said that while it was leaking as he was driving it back it tracked with more power and was able to track in high range with no problems. For one thing this doesn't sounds normal that any function would be under some partial pressure enough to spray fluid when not in use, and it sounds like that pressure in the system is acting as a parasitic power loss robbing power from the system. With the leak its as if the parasitic loss was gone and it got power back. Not sure exactly where to look but sounds like that kind of confirms that it is not a problem with the engine, hydraulic pump, or final drives, but something like an internal leak somewhere in the hydraulic system. Anyways, anyone seen anything like this before and know where to start to diagnose something like that?
well I said it instantly.....and everyone thought I was nuts...….your pumps are not destroking all the way.
Unless a hose is plugged off, or the circuit is intact, there will be oil loss of consequence on any open circuit, regardless of whether that circuit is activated or not, when the machine is running. I carry a full selection of steel caps and plugs so that not only can I seal a system while repairing/ replacing a component, but I can disable a leaking circuit and walk the machine out to a better location without spewing oil everywhere. As for blowing a hose, most likely that hose was already compromised, as the hoses are rated higher than the pump maximum output pressure. Or, someone installed a lower rated hose in its previous life.
I know blowing the hose was not consequence of the pressure in the line, just an old hose on an old machine. Ron, how do you know it is the pump not destroking, and what would i do to check that or fix?
Been a while but i have an update to this post. I ended up rebuilding my engine, new block, rebuilt head etc. When i took it apart it had some damage to one piston around the rings and had two spun main bearings. So it definitely needed some attention. I just made another post about some issues I'm still having with the engine starting and running. But as for the power issues and bogging the engine down, it was still doing this with the rebuilt engine, i turned the fuel adjustment screw out about a turn and a half and it no longer bogs the engine down at all while operating the machine. It tracks well, I can hold three function of the boom at once and it doesn't bog down, which would have stalled it before if held for too long. So i believe that issue is fixed and im confident that it was an engine power issue and not a hydraulic issue. I believe if i had done that before the rebuild it probably would have fixed it as well although the engine still needed work.
mine tb135 is doing the exact same thing. Where is the fuel adjustment screw located
Me too! Would love to know where the adjustment screw is located. My TB135 just started doing this last week. First time it has gotten cold (below freezing) and it did it for the first 5 mins it was running. It only bogged down while I was tracking (boom, stick, thumb and blade didn’t put a noticeable load on the engine). After it warmed up a bit the noticeable bogging of the engine went away while it was tracking and it seemed to be fine. I serviced all filters and fluids in August of this year (fuel, hydraulic, oil and finals - new fluid and filters for all) and only have about 6 hours on it since then and it was running like a champ.
unless somebody else has a better answer, post a picture of your fuel injection pump, maybe we'll know it when we see it?
Pinch the rubber RETURN LINE with a pair of vise grips.& see if the pressure comes up to about 25 psi.. then run it.. U can adj the jaws on vise grips to get that pressure.. Let us know..