Hello everyone, i recently acquired a 1982 International Dresser TD7E from a friend that needed some work, i replaced all the filters and fluids and track adjusters and idlers and a few other things to get it running again, it runs great, but after about an hour of constant work the converter fluid temp gets to the check line, if i stop and let it idle it will go down a little but not to the middle, i noticed i have no fan shroud up front, this machine sat for about 5 years. i have cleaned the transmission cooler, replaced the filters and fluids and tightened the fan belt, could the shroud make that big of a difference in cooling? someone cut it off before me, any other ideas of why it might be getting hot or is getting more air out of the cooler what i'm looking for? thanks for any help
Had a JD 350 with out shroud, had electric fan and belt drive fan, engine would get hot in the summer(220 and higher if I would continue). When I overhauled the engine I installed a shroud and took off the electric fan, Now it runs 180 at the hottest. Shrouds are for a purpose, they work.
Thanks for the help, I washed the radiator out and the transmission cooler and now the engine ran much cooler but the converter temp still got hot, I know I need a shroud, but it's pushing a lot more air now, I have an electric fan to put on the tranny cooler tomorrow to see if that will cool it down some, if it's not the cooler, I don't know what to look for
I am a new TD7G owner. My manual says that if the torque converter is over heating you should operate in a lower gear and idle in neutral at 1000 rpm until the temp drops. Not sure if they would mention it unless it was a common happenstance. You probably know that already but I just thought I would throw it out there in case it might help.
More from manual. If problem persists; 1) clean radiator and oill cooler. 2) check transmission oil level. 3) change pressure filter. 4) change/clean suction/scavage filter. 5) make sure clutch pressure is correct
you guys wouldent happen to have a td7E injector pump would you?
Not I. Did you try looking around in RedPowerMagazine.com ?
1) clean radiator and oill cooler. Check- takes longer to over heat though 2) check transmission oil level. Check - on full mark with machine running 3) change pressure filter. Check - changed all filters all the way around, unless i'm missing one. 4) change/clean suction/scavage filter. Check 5) make sure clutch pressure is correct . HMMM. my clutch pressure in gear shoots way way way up past the hi-line and all the way to the bottom, out of gear it goes back to normal. Thanks for the help. i have a infrared heat gun and checked the temp on the cooler and it's about 20-30 degrees different so the coolers working, today after i ran it and it got all the way hot, i left it running at half throttle while filling the diesel up and it went back to mid way point, after about 5 minutes, but then i went to push again and it didn't take too long for it to heat back up, Sooo, what would cause the clutch pressure to spike in gear? any clues. thanks for the help. I gotta get a manual just can't seem to find them, i have posted on red power and they haven't really tried to help much.
Does the engine temp go up accordingly? How will you know it is not the missing shroud unless you put one?? Might check belt glazing, fan blades mounted correctly etc. You cant get much for 2 cents anymore.
By the way what engine does the E and the G have? Parts are getting slim for my D39P-1(= TD9H) , how are your parts needs looking? Been back and forth with komatsu and dressta dealers, neither are much help.
It is normal for the clutch pressure to spike out of the green while shifting or in neutral. While in gear it should stay in the green. The trouble shooting chart says 1) bad guage or 2) check transmission. Sorry not much help.
it very well could be the missing shroud, but after cleaning the radiator and tranny cooler the engine runs around 170 and below all day long, it does not heat up much past that, i know the radiator blocks a lot of fan too, but according to the handheld thermostat the cooler is doing it's job, it was 20-30 degrees difference between the inlet and outlet of the cooler. I will try to find a shroud and see if that changes anything. thanks.
g man, that's kinda what's worrying me is the transmission but it doesn't slip or anything, it still pushes hard, could the torque converter be going out, is there a scavenge pump on this machine that is not pumping out excess oil, when i checked the transmission oil after running it, it was too hot to touch. i checked the torque converter temp and it red right at about 200 in one part and 180-150 on other parts. thanks for all the help on this.
You probably just have a worn converter that is leaking by but you should check the temperature of the converter housing with an infrared thermometer to make sure your gauge is actually reading correctly. The gauges on these machines were notorious for not reading correctly.
that's what i checked the temperature with today was the infrared gun and it said 200 in one spot and 160 in another and it was kinda all over the place, what temp should it be at?
John is right, could be as simple as a temp gage. Is the sendor in the bottom line from convertor on this one? Might be a good place to compare temperature.
There should by a block on the side of the converter with a tube that goes the cooler. Check your temperature there.
Torque converter green temp range: 115*F to 265* F Transmission clutch Pressure green range: 224 to 288 psi
thanks guys, i will have to check everything this afternoon, i need to take my tilt cylinders off so i'll run it and let it get where it shows hot and then check the temps, i was also gonna pull the dipstick out and check the temp in the tank, that should give me a good reading of the actual oil temp. i noticed an inspection plate on the left side of the converter but i haven't seen a block with a tube, but i'll take the right shield off today and take another gander. Thanks again
Would you guys know where I can get a transmision pressure switch for a D39P-1 or TD9H ? Local dealers cant get them.
Looks like the convertor temp sendor on my D39p-1 is in the oilcooler pipe before it turns to hose, comes out of the bottom rear of convertor. Might be hard to get to with skid in place.
I checked the temperature at the torque converter after an hour and a half and it was 230, I also checked the fluid in the tank and it was around 230, that was after letting it idle and cool down for about 10 minutes after hitting the check line, it cools relatively quickly so it seems the cooler is working properly. The clutch pressure stays up like that when in any gear and pushing or turning, and I believe my gauges to be correct since it was 230 at ¾ gauge. So is my torque converter going possibly? Is there pressure build up somewhere? Would a small leak cause this at all, or would it not be so bad? I don’t see a leak but I thought I saw fresh fluid in the belly pan the other day but I didn’t really get to look good. Thanks again for any help. Here’s a couple of pictures Right after Start up In gear moving clutch pressure After about an hour of pushing hard After about an hour and a half of pushing hard
You are probably seeing the affects of a worn converter but at this time I wouldn't think I would do much more that keeping running and just monitoring the situation. If you still have good power and you don't have to make a living from the machine you don't really have much to lose. That temperature will cause the oil to break down over time and you will know it because it will get dark. However if you do start losing power in the push and you can smell the oil when it gets hot, the transmission temperature starts driving your engine coolant temperature up and then you have to spend lots of time just cooling the thing down thus losing production then it may be time to consider pulling the converter for teardown and inspection. As I recall you can get those out through the bottom of the machine rather than removing the engine and converter together. Good Luck!
The previous info I gave you was from the Operators Manual. I took a look in the service manual problem chart for High Torque Converter Oil Temp 1) To high a gear for to long 2)LOW clutch Pressure 3)Clogged Cooler - internal 4)Clogged transmission suction screen 5)Clogged or restricted torque converter scavenge line 6)Steering brakes dragging 7)Bad gauge Would seem to indicate high clutch pressure is not part of the hi temp problem. Don't know.
Just put torque convertor back in D39P-1/ TD9H, had leaks all over, bearings looked good, just changed orings and seals. It will probably be a while till I get to run it in dirt. TD7E might be very similar( except mine has a cummins engine). I pulled the dash and hoses, then pulled convertor out of the top, left limb risers on and used one fork on lift. There was some confusion between one piece and two peice housing convertors for parts. Did notice a suction screen inside the adaptor fitting of the right pump, might be one to look at.
Thanks guys, when I started with this machine the suction screen was so clogged it would only move for 30 ft so I'm sure there is trash in the system even though I did change all filters and fluids, the scavenge line could be clogged or close, could you tell me or show a pic of where that is exactly? Thanks again for the help, if its not a clog I will just run it until something breaks!
On my TD7G if you take the floor boards off just to the right of the front of the drive shaft you wiil see a block with two hoses coming out. One from the back side of the block and one from the top of the block. The one on the back is the scavenge pump outlet. The one from the top is the transmission pump outlet. The charge/scavenge is a dual section gear pump located on right side of torque converter. Front section draws oil through suction filter and out through pressure filter and on to transmission valves. The rear pump section scavenges oil from bottom of transmission and outputs it through a screen fitting back to the tank. Hope this helps.
Thank you sir for the info, I'm pulling the lines off to look today
I am having the exact same problem with my D7E. Hope you figure it out and let us know what you come up with.
As soon as I figure it out ill let everyone know, I might end up having a tech come out and look, if its a worn out converter ill just fix it later
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Okay, i'm starting to lean towards the torque converter needing either rebuilt or replaced, I have pulled every hose off and every filter and screen and nothing is stopped up and everything has fresh fluid actively running through them, it still pushes hard, just get's the fluid hot, would just the torque converter cause overheating of the hydraulic oil? If so i may just drive it till it blows and then replace it, or when it starts slipping in the transmission, i only have about 18 more acres to smooth out! Thanks again guys, if anyone can think of something else going on let me know.
Grimlock, I am not sure if there are any similarities, but the torque convertor on our Dresser 540 wheel loader was displaying exactly the same symptoms as your TD7E. It was driving fine, just building up heat really quickly. The torque convertor was the problem, the seals in it had gone and the oil was going in all the wrong places, including not to the oil cooler. This thread may help you a bit, although it's probably not what you want to hear. HeavyEquipmentForums RnR.
Thanks a ton for the info, looks like that's where I'm heading! If u don't mind me asking, what did the rebuild set you back, you can just ballpark it or compare it to something else, I found so e torque converters for 1500 with a 700 dollar core charge, if it's cheaper to rebuild than buy one then thats whats next. Thanks
Never mind, I saw the next page after sending that, thanks again
Possible discovery made yesterday, just an update, finally got the dozer under the barn so i could take the torque converter out, i was going to order a new or used torque converter but decided to pull the old one first before ordering it, just in case it could be rebuilt cheaper than 2 grand, silly me, i pulled the lift pump first, checked it over, no issues, then i pulled all the hoses and the pto shaft, then the transmission pump, as soon as i pulled the big inlet line off the transmission pump, there was a screen in there, it was completely stopped up with the same sludge that was in the other pickup screen, from being neglected over the years! Long story short, next time i'll pull the transmission pump off first and check it, i put it back together and i'm going to run it today and see if that is what is cuasing my overheating, i hope it is, it'll save a lot of money and keep me from buying 30 gallons of hydraulic oil every time i turn around!
I know it is a lot coming at you at once, but glad you found it. Might wont to check flywheel side for oil while you are looking.
Grimlock.... after reading this thread, I would appreciate a summary of the location of the filter screens in the machine you are troubleshooting. I JUST bought a TD8E....probably 1981. It is not home yet. It has no issues, but, the machine being 30 years old I am inclined to check every screen and replace all filters. I think that the TD7 and TD8 are near twins in that respect. If others could advise of all the filter points to check.....it would be greatly appreciated. This is a great troubleshooting thread....thanks all for sharing.
Rockpile, I was going to make the same request on the screen locations. My TD7 service manual does not even mention that last screen he found. I believe a TD8 is a TD7 with a turbo chared engine. Every thing else the same. So Grimlock, thank you for sharing your work and when you get a breather if you could fill us in on these screen locations it will be greatly appreciated.
The Wizard of IH/Dresser. Over on the "Red Power Magazine" forum, there is a "Rocco59"....real name Russell. The last post date that I saw was 2009....I have not looked real hard, and have yet to sign up and access other info......BUT.....this guy has the deepest well of knowledge on these machines. He has been an International mechanic in British Columbia his entire life. Apparently, that area has the highest concentration of this era machines in the world..... If the torque converter problem persists, he might offer some insight.
Sorry for the late reply, on the transmission pump, the back bottom hose has a cone shaped screen, I found trash in there, right behind that hose on the chassis is a metal filter screen, take the 4 bolts out and lower it and clean it out, i used diesel to clean it since I couldn't find a filter for it, once I cleaned that screen on the transmission pump I can run it all day in hundred degree Alabama heat and it doesn't get hot, I can take a picture soon and post it up if it'll help
$aved a bundle there!!!! WOW...great finale to that problem. Glad the cheapest fix worked. PLEASE post some pictures. My machine arrived on Sunday.....As with yours, there are some long term maintenance problems. I have pressure washed and sprayed degreaser for two days. My Torque Converter runs just below dead center on the gauge, under a load. For the record....my clutch pressure runs in the top 1/4 of the scale, and engine temp runs a bit above dead center under a load. I have a couple of other problems and observations to relate...I won't hijack this thread....but search for "TD8E" in the next week and I will have some pictures and questions.....man, am I glad I didn't buy an older D-4. The 17,500 lbs and 80 hp of this machine is the sweet spot between too much and too little. Looking forward to the show-and-tell pictures...and, thanks again for all the feedback on solving that problem.....Great resolution....
Wow - Lots of work on your part but you stuck with it and found your problem, Fantastic. Thanks for the education. Pictures will help.
How do you like that joy stick steering? Reminds me, there is another screen in the inlet of the lock valve which supplies the steering valve. You would have to pull the seat, its on the left, a capsule looking fitting. Mine was scrap, new one is 600 but not available. I pulled one off a combine and relocated it above and behind battery. Cant wait to get mine in the dirt. Good luck.
if it's not raining tomorrow i'll get some pics, everything else seems to be doing pretty good so far, i need to fix the radiator it's leaking, the new seals on the tilt cylinders are leaking again, a few more odds and ends, like an under carriage and this machine is great, we do have a komatsu d37p for the bigger jobs, but this td7 is fast, it's too fast at wide open throttle for me usually, it sped up a lot whenever i found that screen, so there's another screen somewhere huh, i have had every single hose off and those are the only two screens i have found, but it's been a great machine so far, and if it aint leakin i'm scared to run it anyways!
The screen I was referring to is on the pressure side going into lock, park valve then the oil goes into the shift valve. You might never have to look at it, but then again? Isnt the td7 about the same as the d37, except for it being originally a komatsu?
Sorry Guys forgot the pictures, i was running the machine today and knocked the dang muffler off and bent my side panel and broke my tilt lever off! I'll get em tomorrow while i'm doing maintenance. Iron, that screen i remember now, i pulled it and replaced it, i was able to find that one at napa as well as a couple other ones that i needed. From my understanding, a D37 is a TD8, and a D31 is a TD7, Komatsu bought some portion of international and based both those machines off the IH TD series, that's what the komatsu dealer told me anyways. We have a D37 and i know it's about 4k pounds bigger than the TD7.
I suppose the TD-7 has a thermostat. After sitting for so many years, perhaps it may be rusted, or frozen shut. Just a thought.
okay, here is a couple pictures of the screen locations under the floor pan. That is water at the bottom on the skid b/c the dozer just spent two days in a deep mud/stump hole! It was fun!
I still can't get the pictures to show for some reason, anyways, the middle arrow on picture 3 there is a conical shaped screen just inside the hose on the transmission pump, the right arrow there is a round metal filter/screen in the sediment bowl that you can remove and clean, or get a new one if you can find it, on the left side of the machine below the gear selector and next to the battery there is a hydraulic filter, i don't have the part numbers right off hand. I think that is all the hydraulic filters and screens, but i'm not a hundred percent, those are the three that i was able to clean out and that fixed the overheating and the slow/non moving problem, i am running the machine and going to clean out these screens until all the trash is flushed out of the system.
Thank you grimlock. BTW, I ment to ask you what are you running for transmission oil in your TD7E ?
I'm actually running something called lubriguard that is ms1209 compatible, its only 30 bucks a pail so I figured while I was flushing the system best not to waste a bunch of money, I know it should be hytrans but was told by warren oil it is the same and that's where the ms1209 comes from is hytrans