Hello folks, newb member here. I joined this forum as I'm looking for advice on how to proceed with a mini-ex purchase. Bit of context, I will be starting a land clearing and portable sawmill business this summer and will most likely be purchasing a mini-ex to open trails, remove stumps and move large logs around. I have a small tractor with a PTO driven woodchipper and brush grapple. I'll also be using a log loader with a winch for hard to reach places. I want to keep everything on the small scale and 1 man operation. Not going into forestry and timberjacks and firewood etc. Anyhoo. I'm looking at the yanmar vio35 and sv40 or a JD 35G. Except for a kubota dealer I had trouble with, Yanmar and JD are the two brands sold somewhat locally. I have had great service from my JD dealer with my tractor and chainsaws pruchased there. I had good "sales calls" from the yanmar dealer and heard good things about them but never dealt with them. Because of the pandemic, I cant try either machines and the local rental companies only have Sany, Wacker Neuson and Kubota machines. SO I'm stuck buying without trying... I'll probably manage to sit in a 35 G but wont be able to try a yanmar before I place and order. So my questions are: 1) Should I stick to JD and be happy with that without trying the Yanmar? 2) Which cab is more spacey? I'm 6' tall and 300lbs.. 3) is the SV40 worth the extra money and extra weight over the 35 for my intended use? Any other suggestions ideas ? Thanks! Love this forum!
cab machine or open machine? I ask, because I am similar sized and it is a squeeze in and out of the 35G cab. For me it is well worth it, but as a one man show there are many many trips in and out that door. I frankly would not buy anything I could not at least start up and move about a sales lot. If Yanmar can't do that then they do not want your business, IMO. He can't make sales calls with a straight face if you can't at least try it on for size.
Thanks! I'm looking at a CAB machine with the longer arm option and counterweight. I'm also considering different attachments to make tasks easier but that can be added on later. Having a hydraulic quick attach would prob save me some time as well. A tiltronator type thing might be good for log handling too but I was advised against it because of the added weight. I own a 2 acres hillside forest property and a 32 acres wood lot I will be developing my skills on before I get started with the business btw. Gotta start somewhere! Oh and the yanmar dealer is also a new holland dealer and mostly sell AG stuff. the lot is pretty much empty of yanmar machines.
tell him you are interested and want to sit in one, and if he can't make that happen and JD can, then you have a bit of an answer there
If I were starting a land clearing operation I would start with a bigger mini ex. A 3.5 ton in my view is too small if your going to try and make a living at it, and in my view it is unsafe as well. I would at least opt for a 5-6 ton machine. You can move bigger trees, clear more and its larger size allows you more stand off distance from some trees than would a 3.5 ton. The 5-6 ton would also allow you to run a Pro Link thumb, which is pretty important if you managing logs every day. I would not look past WN excavators. The ET42 I know a lot about, and it would make the 5 ton list. Very powerful and well designed machine. It is their latest released machine, it is very nice. I think the Hitachi (Deere), Yanmar would of course be fine as well. I would check the specs on the machines of interest, lifting capacity would be an important spec to compare as well as the usual breakout force and arm force and so forth. Lastly, decide who you want to be married to. I think having the correct size of mini ex is more important than what color it is.
But Yanmar's Red and black look soooo good!! haha I'm pretty much brand agnostic to be honest. I'll add the WN to the short list. After posting I checked and the rental place nearby also sells new units and does maintenance on WN. The ET42 seems to have a pretty good weight/power ratio on paper at least! Yeah it's been a puzzle to figure out how big I could go without having to get a big truck license around here. I'm pretty sure I can get up to 10k GVWR. I'm not sure I'd be safe pulling a 5 ton mini without a larger truck. I spoke to people at the SAAQ (local equivalent to the DMV) and they were pretty unclear.. I'll call again and hopefully get some better answers (or ask better questions). I might start another thread or search a bit more on this forum about what size truck people are using for 4-6 ton minis. I was looking at a 3/4 ton Ram. thank you for the input and for chiming in!
According to Ram, a properly equipped 2500 has a GCWR of 25,00ish pounds. 8000 for truck, leaves 17,000 for trailer, equipment and payload. Seams like a lot of weight for that size truck, but that's what the manufacturer is claiming. The 2021 Ram 2500 actually has similar towing specs to my 2008 Ford F-350 SRW. My '08 does really well towing over 10,000 pounds, but dont expect good fuel mileage doing it. The Deere 35g has a listed weight of 8,135 lbs, a 14k GVW gooseneck would weigh around 4,000 pounds. That leaves a little wiggle room for a fuel tank, maybe an extra attachment or two, and some tools, plus driver. The ET42 is listed around 8600 lbs, and would also fit on a 14k GVW trailer. I would not go smaller on the trailer, but I would go bigger. A dual tandem 20k GVW would still haul everything, keep within manufacturer weight restrictions, and allow room to grow later on.
KSSS hit the nail with his suggestion, as you could rent an ET42 for a week and really know some things. The others would be more guessing on every front. Also, look hard at that married comment. Spending $1500 ~ $2000 on a week's rental could save you all sorts of heartache.
Thanks! It does seem like a lot of weight. I'm not that worried about fuel as much as braking power when carrying a full load. Lots of mountains and steep slopes around here. Maybe a goose neck would be better for same weight than a tilt deck (was aiming for that). So many pieces to this puzzle ah! I'm lucky enough to have some money set aside to get the startup funded and I'm pretty confident about the customer base around where I live. Urban sprawl is getting here and there's huge demand in construction, land clearing and landscaping in general because of Covid... people a leaving the city to settle in what used to be rural areas. Every contractor I spoke to is booked a year ahead and prices have skyrocketed. I called every one I saw listed to see how busy my competition was haha!
gooseneck will carry more weight safely with the size of truck you are wanting, I think that was the point of that suggestion. Load is in front of rear axle. It takes at least a 1 ton to tow a bigger than 35 on the bumper.
When it comes to towing and picking equipment, there is a reason that the 3.5 ton machines are so popular (most units sold are in this weight class). It is because they can keep you out of CDL category. I think in many cases though it creates a false ceiling for many contractors. It becomes a situation where you "step over a dollar to save a dime". Choosing a smaller excavator than you need, just to save the hassle of a CDL, limits your ability to become more successful. It can also be the reason that some never make it. My suggestion would be to choose the right sized machine for what you want to accomplish both now and at least the next few years in your business plan. As Skyking points out, rental is a great way to decide what that size is. When you know what size that is, and for argument's sake, lets just say that it is a 6 ton machine. Acknowledge that will require more headaches in licensing, however that it is not impossible to get done and is but a requirement to see your business plan through to success. Don't let the artificial ceiling, imposed by licensing hassles (and costs) get in your way of picking the best tool for the job. If my job is to pound nails everyday, and a lighter hammer is much easier to mob around on the job. However, I have to swing the hammer harder and more often to get my job done. Does that make more sense than to bring a bigger hammer and finishing faster and with less effort? Probably a poor analogy, but hopefully you can see what I mean.
While I see all that I always have the rental option in my back pocket. When my little machine won't do a specific job I can rent something nice and new and delivered. If the money is not in the job for that, The money was never in the job to begin with! Keep that in mind when bidding work.
Thank you all for the replies and info. A lot of food for thought. I'm definitely in the "the right tool for the right job" camp. I've always held that whatever price difference I pay will pay for itself in efficiency if it's the right fit for the work. Guess I'm lacking the experience to be the best judge of that right now and it's why I appreciate the feedback. I will start by renting a few machines that's for sure. The "CDL" requirements here take around 2 years to complete. It's a pain but maybe I should consider doing it.
just rent and see. With no experience to go on that is the only good path.
While I have never run A WN ex, keep in mind that they are a German co., & they excel at efficient & thoughtful design & construction. Generally way ahead of our short-sighted US brands. I own a New Holland (Kobelco) EH-80, which is quite a bit bigger than a ET42, & I love that machine & its size. But I don't have to move it...it stays on my property. It has a hydraulic stick-mounted thumb, & a manual Klac quick attach with a 24" trench bucket, a 48" ditch bucket, a ripper (all Werk-Brau brand) & a skid-steer quick attach of my own design & construction. I work by myself, so the quick attach tools & thumb are essential. If I had to do it over again, I would absolutely delete the thunb & Klac quick-attach & buckets & such, & invest in a tiltrotator of European design with a few of the matching attachments, namely a trench bucket, a ditch or cleanup bucket, a ripper, & a grapple. The tiltrotator would allow quick change of all the attachments (including hydraulic connections) without leaving the cab, & the grapple would be way more versatile than any thumb!! The advantage of such a setup is that (with practice) you can virtually eliminate all hand grading & work. I'm going on 76, so that's important. But there are 2 disadvantages: The first is cost...the tiltrotator setup is probably north of $20K, but you should look at it long-term as a setup that you can move to a replacement ex in the future. The other disadvantage is you give up some bucket breakout force because the tiltrotator setup increases the tip radius of any attachment. But this is partially overcome by using the European style (nordic standard) buckets & tools, & by the extreme dexterity the tiltrotator gives to the tools. In short, I wouldn't own another excavator without it incorporating a European style tiltrotator setup. One of the leading tiltrotator brands is EngCon, which I believe is based is Sweden.
I've got a bobcat E42 and a pair of bobcat E85s, they're all set up with Steelwrist tiltrotators. All are set up with a sandwich configuration to enable removal of the tiltrotator for more breakout force, or for when I plan on abusing the machine I play with both trees and dirt professionally and have to make money at it. First, I can whole heartedly say, that I would not spend my money putting a tiltrotator on a machine less than 4 metric tons. My e42 is just shy of 10k lbs with the additional counterweight, and it handles a tiltrotator well, but it does have it's limits. It's what I would describe as a good compromise. It fits nearly everywhere, can pick up decent size logs, fine grades nicely, and can hog some dirt when it needs to. This machine was towed regularly behind a single rear wheel F250, using a 16k trailer and a proper weight distributing hitch. Perfectly safe, and I would not hesitate to travel anywhere in Qc with that kind of rig. We've upgraded from that F250 to a cabover dually hino for other reasons, but a pickup is perfectly capable of towing that class machine. My E85's are just over 20k lbs, and a only a bit bigger than the E42. Roughly a foot wider, a few feet longer, and quite a bit taller. You can do serious damage with a machine this size. Big enough to do smaller scale clearing work (1-2 acres a day), put in culverts, and dig basements if you want, while small enough to not need a lowboy to move it. We tow our tag behind a tandem dump truck, but I've also had this machine behind a 33k gvwr medium duty as well and it moves just fine. I've cut many miles of recreational cross country ski trails, private roads and dug dozens of basements and additions with these machines. If I had to only own one machine, it would not have one smaller than 6 ton. Given you're in Qc, you're gonna need a class 1 for any trailer over 4500kgs. I wouldn't let a drivers license upgrade limit the whole operation. One quick word about tilt-rotators. They are not a forestry tool. They are built strong, but trees have a way of getting in and breaking hoses and wires. No one builds one that is guarded well enough for that application in my opinion. They are absolutely excellent for precision mechanical arborist work though. For forestry, we use a shear, ripper for the stumps, and a forestry grapple for material handling. Ultimately, I buy machines based on capability, proximity to dealer, parts availability. If a dealer can't get me a demo, or at least some seat time, I wouldn't buy from them.
Thanks for the input! I have to admit that I'm a big fan of letsdig18's setup on youtube and it's something I am definitely considering. The yanmar dealer I mentioned before sells AMI attachements and I actually contacted AMI directly. They told me it was very easy (of course) to set up an account for a dealer so even if I end up with JD or WN I'll probably push to get those attachments and see if I can get some kind of credit for the stock attachments. I'll look into EngCon. Rotobec's head office is within driving distance from me as well and their rotating log grapple seems pretty interesting for what I have in mind. I'd just need to figure out a way to get a bucket/thumb on quickly.
Thank you! What you say all makes sense to me. More arguments to get my class 3 or class 1 licence.
BigEv, where in la belle Province are you?
In Ste-Agathe-des-Monts near Tremblant. About an hour north of Montreal. So about 2-3 hours from you ;-)
Aren't the Yanmar @ 4yr, 4k hour warranty, standard?
I know it's nice to have a machine, truck, and trailer ready to go at short notice but... Once you decide what mini-x you want just hire someone with a dually truck and trailer to move your equipment. It will save you thousands $$$$ and will be less maintenance. Insurance, CDL, payments, and maintenance on everything all add up quickly! If for some reason the business venture did not work out as planned you only have the mini-x to deal with selling or keeping.
I think so.. I saw it advertised but not sure if it's for all of North America. Good point and I was considering that. I made a few calls and looked up some ads but haven't found anyone yet. I'll keep checking FB marketplace and ask around. I will most likely replace my SUV with a pickup truck and get a trailer to haul my tractor around between my properties regardless of the business side of things... I'm an IT project manager by "trade" so not in a rush to quit my job... well... I'd like it sooner than later but when all is set haha! I should say I'm a "buy once" kind of guy and my equipement usually last me a long time.
Make sure you check the specs closely of any machine you're seriously considering. A small excavator isn't going to lift a log with a whole lot of weight and adding a longer arm is only going to accentuate the problem. You probably have a good idea of the weight of what you want to lift if you've been working with wood for any length of time.
I love my mini/micro excavator. It made me good money last year. Many people with bigger machines crapped on it when I was purchasing it but had never run one before..... I was able to lift this up into the dump trailer. I had to cut off the piece the chains saw is resting on. The narrow end was about 36" in diameter. The left side was much fatter.
I like that idea.
I was in a similar situation as you about a year ago with a similar size machine (Kubota kx040). Unfortunately, I think it is necessary to have your own way to move the machine at the drop of a hat. Its part of the service you are selling. With the size of machine a 35 is, a lot of the jobs I was taking were pretty much in and out jobs 1 or 2 days or less so it was imperative I could move it myself. Also, if you are going to be in the excavating business, a CDL is a necessity IMO. I was operating a long time without one simply because of my age, but it really hindered me because I was either looking over my shoulder, or trying to size my equipment to avoid the CDL. I earned mine last month and it has made things way easier. Good luck.
Very nice! That is one big log and it's pretty cool that you made your machine work it. And the electric chainsaw too ;-) There's always bigger and better in every field but gotta find what's right for your needs. My sawmill takes up to 30'' by 21' logs so we'll see what I'll do with the larger ones I find. My larger property has some massive trees I'll have to clean up. Some are fallen already and some dead standing. And yeah some large logs are easily up top 4k-5k lbs for 5'-8'.
Grats and thank you! I have to admit I wasn't considering it before posting here but I'm reevaluating that.
Small update. I spoke to the Yanmar dealer again and they also sell Wacker Neuson. They just so happen to have a SV40, Vio55 and WN ET42 in the lot and I've arranged for a side by side demo Wednesday. so I'll at least get to sit in them and play around for a bit.
Great opportunity to run a couple different sizes and OEMs. Bring us back what your thoughts are.
I would be looking in the 8 ton range. Love that size for a little of everything. You can move that behind a pick up in quebec with a class 5. I have a place in harrington and often go to a place in wentworth north.
I've been touring Harrington and Wentworth quite a bit last fall on my motorcycle. Gorgeous spots and views! Thanks for chiming in. 8 ton might be my second machine haha
KSSS was spot on. I would recommend 6T minumum. I compared Cat 305, JD 50G, Kubota KX-057 & Bobcat E50 - Bought a Volvo ECR58. All machines had their pluses and minuses : The cab size sold me on the Volvo. I too am short for my weight, getting in and out of the Volvo is easy. Needed a shoe horn to get in and out of the Cat & the Deere. Takeuchi makes good stuff.... I think their TB260 might be the 6T machine...I wouldnt be afraid to look at that too. I can tell you though, your first excavator will become too weak really quick .... Good Luck
Thanks! You guys already convinced me to go bigger than what I had planned and I thought I was already going big with a 3.5 ton lol. I think 4-5 ton will be good enough for the business model I have in mind and I can revisit in a few years with more experience under the belt. I'll hear you all say "I told you so" when I get there haha I went ahead and tried the yanmar SV40 and WN ET42 yesterday. I sat in them and moved the buckets around.. didn't dig anything. Here are some observations: - Both machines seem to have goo fit and finish in and out. - The WN's cabin is slightly lower to the ground and the tracks slightly wider. - Both angle blades seem sturdier than what I've seen on other machines (online) - The WN's angle blade is heftier by a fair margin - The door to the SV is narrower so a bit more of a tight fit to get in for me for my (6' 300lbs with wide shoulders). - Very easy to get into the WN and quite spacy - Both seats were confortable - I had to bend my wrists a bit more to handle the joysticks with my fingertips on the yanmar. - The angle blade lever of the yanmar is a bigger "mechanical" handle. The WN is a small joystick. - A bit more leg room on the WN - The pedals on the yanmar seemed a bit higher and I had to twist my ankles quite a bit to use them. - The general control and buttons layouts seemed comparable - Visibility was good on both units - Both have factory hydraulic quick attach systems - The Yanmar is prettier to my eyes haha - Both are new models but the WN seems more modern.. Controls and LED lights when it's active etc. Bottom line, I liked the Wacker Neuson quite a bit more overall. I cant really speak to smoothness or responsiveness of the controls since I have no real base for comparison or prior experience but it seemed very precise to my newbie eyes. It also has more breakout force (on paper at least). I walked around a vio55 but didn't get to sit in it or try it.
When my boss was looking at 5 ton machines i fell in love with the wacker and was also very fond of a takeuchi. The wacker was so smooth to run and comfortable inside. My boss ended up buying a kubota because it was the cheapest. I hated that piece of crap everytime i had to be in it. I found the yanmar very loud inside.
Not sure how experienced you are on excavators. If your working in the woods moving trees and piles of brush you going to be tracking and swinging and moving the joysticks at the same time. You might want to check out how the different machines multi function. Also having thumb rockers for the boom and hydraulic thumb is nice so you can operate those while driving with you feet. Having to use foot pedals for the boom and thumb are the only complaint about my Takeuchi, when I bought it I wasn't good enough to track with my feet so I didn't realize it would be a hindrance till I got more experience.
I am not experienced at all! I did try tracking while swinging the bucket around and could not detect or hear a difference on the WN and my throttle was low. I wasn't under any kind of load though. The thumb controls on the joystick didn't feel intuitive and I commented on it to the sales guy. He checked and it was wired backwards. I tried it in excavator mode and not in backhoe mode. It felt right to me somehow.
Not being able to demo a machine is exactly why I have Bobcat and not Kubota. My Bobcat dealer will give me any machine or attachment i want to try for at least a couple of days, no questions asked. Local Kubota dealer thought sitting in a machine in the parking lot should be adequate. IMO there are a lot of good machines out there. Really good dealers…maybe not so much.
Yeah dealer support is #1 deciding factor for me. The Yanmar and Wacker Neuson dealer gained some points in having the units side by side to demo. I ended up talking to my deere rep yesterday. I got stuck with my tractor and he actually came out to help me get it out of the snowbank lol... now that's service. I discussed the wacker neuson with him and he's offering to match the price I got on the WN for a deere 60G. Guess I'll have to at least consider it and try it. It seems that the WN still has more breakout force than the 60G for a lower operating weight.. but heavier means more flexibility with heavier weight extended out. It also means that I'd need to go bigger on the trailer...and my budget does have a limit haha. Decision decisions.
To the OP, your intended use is very similar to what I do, except I don’t do it for hire. I started with a Bobcat e42, extendible arm. I did a lot of stump work with it and personally wouldn’t want anything smaller for that type of work. A year or so ago I moved up to Bobcat e50, standard arm. World of difference in capacity, much more so than paper specs would indicate. For me, in the woods, i prefer the zero tail swing. The e50 has a wider undercarrage with bigger tracks, another bonus. The standard length arm maximizes lifting capacity, something you’ll appreciate doing stump work. I don’t know about other brands and dealers, but i had to order the standard length arm as my dealer almost exclusively has long arms on the lot.
Thanks for chiming in. I am looking forward to gauge how quickly I can pull stumps since it'll be one of the bottlenecks in my operation. I have been closely looking at my finances and put forward a proposal to the finance ministry (my wife) and at this point I will likely quit my job in a few weeks and work on my properties for a few months to gain experience and develop my skills before getting into business. There are also some items like commercial wood chippers and pick up trucks that have very long waiting lists. So even ordering now I wouldn't get them before august-september.
Welp, I went and tried the Deere 60G. It's definitely another size class of machine from the SV40 and ET42. Wider frame and longer reach, larger buckets etc. I was very comfortable in the cab and except for the thumb control I managed some very precise and smooth movements pretty quickly. Sound proofing was not as good as the Wacker Neuson but still decent. The size is a bit intimidating for me to be honest but all the comments I've gotten here and from the sales rep, family and friends with a bit of experience have convinced me to go big or go home. The service I've gotten so far from the deere dealer is a big deciding factor too. The dealer is also giving a pretty solid price on it too (pretty much the same as the WN really) since it's my second machine from them and they are bunching it with a few other purchases like pallet forks for my tractor etc. So Looks like I'll be a proud owner of a Deere 60G in a month or 2! No renting after all!HA! Thank you all for the advice and sharing your experience. I'll post some pics and more feedback when I get it.
Quick update and thread resurrection 5 months later! Things are going pretty well and business is picking up!
That's a very nice setup and a great way to tow a 60.