Well business has been extremely good this year and I'm being told that it would be a great time to take advantage of Section 179 unless I enjoy giving Uncle Sam almost 25% of my profits-which i definitely do not. With that I am seriously considering buying a new CTL to help offset some of the profits to replace the old 247B I picked up a few years back. Initially I was looking at the Kubota SVL75-3 and Bobcat T66 which are both 74hp models but now I'm thinking I could save around 8-10k and go with the Kubota SVL65-2S or Bobcat T64 models which are 64hp models but have mostly all the same features just a bit less capacity. I am definitely doing an enclosed cab with a/c since I'm in FL on any machine I get Primary uses is going to be property maintenance-bush hog, dirt moving & grading and maybe an occasional use for a mulcher if I decide to haul it to our properties in NC to avoid paying someone else to do it. And it may get a trencher if we need it for work but i don't foresee anything where I'll need to max out lifting capacities. The Bobcat engine is non-DPF which seems like would mean less maintenance and it comes with a reversing fan which from what I've gathered on here is a pretty important feature to have. The Kubota is hydraulic controls while Bobcat's SJC system uses wire-hydraulics which I've never used and hear mixed reviews about lagging response yet they seem to be a better system overall. I'm curious if anyone has experience with either of these units and can give some real world feedback. Would not having the extra hp be something to regret down the road? My expectation is to hold on to whatever I get for a long time so resale isn't a big factor although research seems to indicate Bobcat holds up better in that area. Since I know dealer is a big factor the Kubota dealer is about half the distance as Bobcat but there are 2 of them only 30 minutes from my house. I've yet to run either machine which I'm hoping to do, however I'm now out of town for work so that may not happen if I can't find a dealer near here with units. Appreciate the input anyone may have
That's a loaded question you have and hard to answer. To get your new machine with any attachments is going to be like $90K. For the most part, too much money. What can you sell the old machine for? I would suggest, assuming the old machine (247B) is operational, is to keep it. Then spend $35-40K and get your self a nice used 4-5 ton Kubota cab mini excavator with a thumb and extra buckets. This will help diversify future potential needs.
I 've got to replace most of the bogey wheels on the unit I have now and then I was planning to list it for around 10k and see what the response is. It's a 2006 (i think) with just over 4700 hours so I may be dreaming on what it's worth. It's got a oil leak and knock so I'm expecting the engine to go soon but I'm not a diesel mechanic so who knows. As for the excavator I've got a little 1-ton AG Chinese unit I got from my FIL last year and aside from a 300' trench for power to my gate subpanel all it's done is sit so I'm hesitant to get a larger unit to just sit also. The CTL is something I look for reasons to get in and use and have been eyeing a new one for a while. Having our CPA tell us that If there was something you have been wanting to purchase now is the time to do it since we don't know what will happen next year with the tariffs and tax code didn't exactly help my urge either.
I personally don't like bobcat, Kubota is nice and have come a long way in the last 5 years for cab comfort and the door is awesome. My current machine is a cat the next one will be also. Lots of features and I am comfortable running it all day or in the snow all day and night. Service is good, field service is better, customer service is great. I bought travel with my warranty so they come to me at no cost as long as my problem is covered under warranty.
Curious what it is about Bobcat that you don't like? The rollup door on the Kubota I can see the advantage of operating open or closed but I've seen several claims where if the machine is sitting oddly the door wont go up and it becomes sticky over time. I looked at the CAT units but it seems you get a lot more for the same $ with the Kubota and Bobcat in that HP range.
I have had a T190 Bobcat when I lived in Mn that I had new in 2007 and around 20 hours had some problems that were taken care of by my dealer that was 150 miles away. Dealer brought me a skidsteer to use and delivered the fixed T190 and picked up the skidsteer all at no cost. Closest dealer to me was 100 miles, I was in the boon docks LOL. I moved to Wi and purchased a T590 in 2018. In 2020 I had some problems that were irritating (sounded like relief valves) but it had good power etc, but hydraulics especially forward and reverse were very noisy. Dealer that was 10 miles away said nothing wrong with it. After I insisted they take it in and check it, they told me in a couple of weeks they would get back with me. I had previously done business with a Kubota dealer with a mini excavator purchase and they were great people, but 100 miles away. Long story short, I purchased a new SVL65-2. I love it, especially the door, has been trouble free. Kubota dealer came down and looked at the T590 and I told him why I wanted to trade and he gave me a decent price on the new Kubota. It took a couple of months before the SVL65 came in. About a week after I got the Kubota the Bobcat dealer called and said to bring the T590 in to look at it, I was happy to tell them it was too late. Bobcat dealer has since went out of business, There is a neighboring Bobcat dealer making a new dealership and a neighboring Kubota dealer has moved in too, the only thing I don't like about the new Kubota dealer is that they hired the former Bobcat service manager as their service manager. If I have Kubota trouble I will go to the farther dealer, they are super people there. FWD
So I'm gonna guess you are a yes to the Kubota over Bobcat . How is the regen process on the 65 unit? I'm a bit concerned on that since my use is sporadic so if I have to run it around for 20 minutes while it does a regen that could get annoying. Any issues with the door not sealing and finding dust/ dirt intrusion while using it?
Foot controls initially,then it was lack of features and comfortability of them I am sure they have come a long way from then, but I have found a happy home with cat. I would suggest talking to some local guys to see how their experience is with the dealers in your area and how they treat their customers. If you buy new, you are stuck with them
No doubt being able to customize the Cat warranties is a big plus. Not sure if other manufacturers offer that or not. Same here - I hate Bobcat. Part of the reason are the machines their self and the other is our local dealer. At one time I could order parts from Perimeter BC in Atlanta and have them shipped cheaper than buying from the local dealer. Bobcat is just not on the level of fit, finish and overall quality of Cat or Kubota. Who owns Bobcat now?
I like the Kubota a lot, the worse part of the second Bobcat was the lack of support from the dealer. After the initial trouble with the 190, all was well until I traded it, absolutely no trouble. The regen happens not too often. The only time it was inconvenient was when I was spreading gravel and also driving the dump truck. I had just about finished leveling the load and regen started and I needed to get another load, so I just let it at a little above low idle and let it stay like that and all was fine when I came back. I know on the larger engines it has been brought to my attention that if it starts regen, do not shut it off until regen is done. I have read that you should run the engine at wide open, but I rarely run it at more than 3/4 throttle. No problems with the door up and down. The seal seems fine. I don't run in real dusty conditions. If I only run it for leveling a load or so, I leave the door up. I know you are not supposed to, but occasionally I need to get out and do something with the boom up, I can do that. Both Bobcat's I usually ran with the door off. I hated to do that if I had to leave it out in bad weather. FWD
Only thing I can contribute is check you dealer thoroughly. I am a horse/livestock trailer dealer by day. And am being chased to be a Bobcat dealer since "we are in similar businesses". NOT. My family was a successful Kubota AG dealer years ago, so I have some knowledge. And we have no business whatsoever trying to deliver quality service to Bobcat customers. But I am sure they are talking other non-qualified folks into signing up. As is Branson & Mahindra,
I have a Kubota SVL65-2 that I bought new a couple years ago, have 550hrs on it now and it has been an excellent machine. Mine is the open station, wide track, standard flow hydraulics model. The reason I purchased SVL65 vs the SVL75 was 1) much better visibility, 2) lower ground pressure, 3) lighter to tow with my pickup, and 4)lower cost. With the difference in cost I purchased a few new attachments including that grapple rake and a nice set of walk through forks. So far the 65 has done everything I need quite well. It doesn't have the lift capacity or the pushing power of the 75 but I'm realistic in what a CTL should be used for and that hasn't been a problem. It will pick up a full pallet of block and a 4000lb concrete water trough if you're careful, which are both way over the 'rated' capacity. This was the first DPF machine I've owned and was hesitant at first but so far it has been a non issue. It regens every 30-70hrs depending on how it gets run. Regens take about 15-20min, when the regen light comes on I just crank the throttle wide open and continue whatever I'm doing. Maintenance in general is fairly easy, cab tilts up and radiator slides out for good access. I've had really good luck with Kubota equipment over the years which is why they are often at the top of my list. For a CTL I was also looking at Takeuchi and Deere but our Kubota dealer is top notch and there were some features of the Kubotas that I liked better. I was not considering anything made by Bobcat. I ran Bobcats years ago and they were quite good, but IMHO anything they have made in the last 20yrs is not something I'd want to own. Maybe others have had better luck with them, but I'm less than impressed with any of their new stuff.
My experience with Kubota roll-up doors (on both CTL and excavator) is that they can get a little finicky with time and use. But a little maintenance and lubrication will fix them. I think a lot of the complaints come from people who won't take the time to do that. I currently have an ASV CTL with a roll up door and wouldn't have any other style. On a lot of machines, you can't fully open the door with the lift arms up, something I do on a regular basis. It's also really nice to be able to run with the door off, without having to remove it. Downsides are that they generally don't seal quite as well, a long with the above-mentioned finicky behavior.
Definitely research the dealerships. They'll make or break your experience. With that said our Bobcat dealer is very responsive and helpful but our one Bobcat CTL is down as much as it runs. Literally. Our Kubota dealer is less than half the distance of the Bobcat dealer but isn't that helpful even though we're running 6 of their machines. They're not terrible either. I'm not really a fan of the Kubota CTLs but they are almost bulletproof. The -3 series CTL cabs are now a pressurized, one piece design so they're somewhat quieter and much cleaner inside compared to the -2 machines. Much better for dusty environments. I'm not a fan of the roll up door but as long as you lock them when you run with the door open and do the scheduled maintenance on them they're OK. For me personally, if the choice was between Bobcat and Kubota, I'd go with Kubota assuming the dealership isn't terrible. If you're willing to spend a little more I'd recommend a Cat even with the difficulty we've been having with one of ours. And their pricing may surprise you compared to others too. It never hurts to check.
How could you possibly recommend Cat after that lift arm disaster? If that happened to me I'd never own another piece of Cat equipment again.
Appreciate all of the feedback from everyone. I keep finding myself going back to the Kubota 65-2S model so if I pull the trigger I think it will be on that. I don't have a need for the 75 series plus the additional weight puts it right at my dump trailer max and I have no interest in buying a bigger trailer on top of it all. Now I just gotta decide if the Shockless ride is a gimmick or something worth the cost and if I need high flow or not.
The Kubota should work well for you. If you'll be using it with a brush hog, mulcher, or anything that creates a lot of dust I'd recommend going with the -3 instead of the -2. The -2 cab will seal OK until you raise and lower the cab for maintenance a couple times. The -3 cabs HVAC works much better than the -2 and is a one piece sealed cab that will keep the dust out.
Yes, Cat has treated us like dirt on the lift arm fiasco on our 285XE and we've learned our relationship with our dealer wasn't as good as we thought it was. My philosophy is to not waste energy on something that can't be changed. Cat has made it abundantly clear they'll do nothing for us. The dealer tried to help and made a bad situation worse and won't do anything else about it. I fully expect Cat to quietly fix the problem on their end and move forward as if nothing happened. We knew going in that we would probably have some teething problems with a first run machine and expected Cat to stand behind it. We realize we made a mistake in that expectation. I can waste time carrying a grudge and bad mouthing them or I can move on and not allow them space in my head. The fact is, other than the lift arm fiasco, the 285XE has been an excellent machine so far. It's currently at 350 hrs and has been a money maker for us so far. I'm not brand loyal. I run the machine I'm given and give my opinion on them regardless of the color. I know this probably isn't the "manly" response but it's worked for me so far.
There is no SVL65-3, only SVL65-2. Knowing Kubota it could be months or years before they come out with a -3 on those models. On lower sales volume models they sometimes take longer to upgrade. That said, the -3s are a new design and I don't like to be a guinea pig on new models, no matter the brand, for reasons we've just discussed. Once they've been out 2-3yrs I'd give one a try, year one no thanks. We got burned on that years ago on a new Deere 4400 compact tractor when they first came out in 1998. Absolutely the most wretched, problematic piece of equipment we've ever owned. Performance was good, but the thing completely fell apart, front axle bearings, front axle housing, rear axle bearings, hydraulic cooler, seat suspension, PTO clutch, hood, and other stuff I'm probably forgetting.
You are correct on the 65-3. I made an assumption based on the 75-3 and 97-3. And, your not wrong on the rest either.
If for sure you want new, I like Kubota and Takeuchi. But I've learned that spending 70-90K is way too much, unless your a multi millionaire with millions in the bank or a big time commercial contractor. Why not sell your machine and buy a nice used Kubota (1500 hours with air conditioning, and just a few years old) for 45K? Then when you scratch it, no worries. And you can likely sell it if needed, for what you got it for.
Since the -2 series has been around for a while and the new S series mainly just focuses on the operator station I'd not expect too much for pain points. Although they are now a keyless start so if there was something I could see that being it. So forever I never got the extended warranties on things but the last couple vehicles I've opted for it since everything is now electronic and they actually paid for themselves in repairs. Do you guys consider them worth it on equipment?
The SVL65-2S must be pretty new, had never heard of them or seen one until you posted about it. Had to go look at the brochure. I might be in the minority here, but none of the things the S model offers seem like an upgrade, looks like a lot of unnecessary electronics to go bad. In fact the huge touch screen display is a big turn off for me. IMO touch screens don't belong anywhere near equipment and screens that big I just find distracting. The visibility is quite good on these machines, you don't need a backup camera. I got the $30 rear view mirror option and it works great. As does the key and standard gauges. Also I've never bought an extended warranty on anything and probably never will. It's an odds game and the companies make big money selling them, otherwise they wouldn't be offered.