Let's clear the room first. Obviously these are not logical well thought out decent quality brand name machines and they perform tasks compared to such machines pretty much worse in every manner except upfront cost. The crux: still better than a shovel. Still debatably better than a high hour nearly worn out brand name machine that needs a lot of money to bring back up to snuff and a line bore job on every hole. Here's the thread for tasteful upgrades and farm tier hacks to make these unfinished machines slightly more reliable or easy to operate. Recently purchased an "ire20" with the "kubota" d772. Extremely common import mini excavator probably has 10 different brand names from the same 2 oems in China. Variance in specs seems pretty narrow so just about all of them in this "2 ton" category can be described as the same, some seem to have better swing gear motor mounts and some have more counterweight than others. All of them are essentially unfinished products not suitable for work without the time to finish what China started. All of them are extremely overpriced unless obtained at auction or in bulk out of the shipping container. I have seen them as low as 4k for gas powered and 6k for the diesel powered ones. I paid 8k for mine. Little importer shops that are popping up all over the place seem to ask over 20k for diesel models with the thumbs and even more for ones with the swing booms. I'll blog what kind of things I can improve for small tasks and machine operation and hopefully someone will find it helpful. Feel free to argue about quality and bad Chinese engineering.
Yep. Now you may need 3 of the same model in order to keep one running but still better than a shovel.
Those are showing up in large quantities on our local Facebook marketplace. Probably 7 or 8 different brand names are showing up here in north Texas. I think all you need is enough money to buy 2 or 3 container loads, and they will paint them any color you want and apply any name decal you want. Just for fun, I have compared specs, and I think sewer bill is correct, they are all the same, and coming from only two or three different factories.
I still prefer a shovel with a few beers on ice nearby
Screw that. I'm either working or having an adult beverage - One does not interfere with the other.
I’m old……shovel for 30 minutes, break and cold beer for 30 minutes…..rinse and repeat
I bought a 1.8T and a stand on skid loader direct from China. I think I was $40k all in for the pair with a bunch of attachments including shipping and taxes. I made a thread on here if you want to check the numbers. Both units have a Kubota diesel. The stand on loader had some issues. The excavator has a hyd thumb and swing boom option. It has been great. The only 'problems' I have had are: 1. Hydraulic power is lessened on some functions when using others. Ex. trying to rotate when tracking will result in one drive motor getting less power than the other and not traveling straight. The fix has been deal with it and not use 2 competing functions at once. 2. The controls have been getting jerky as of late when hot, full power, and trying to work fast. I ordered AW100 hydraulic oil (30 wt.) and will try that. I am in FL and the owners manual suggests that for hot weather operation. I have a bit over 100 hrs on the machine so I do no think it needs to be changed yet and is still clean looking, but I am not sure what weight oil was used during manufacture as 32, 46, 68, and 100 are all listed as usable in the machine depending on environment. Oh, I guess I had a 3rd issue. The thumb would hit the boom when the stick was curled all the way in and the thumb was fully extended. I cut off the mounting tabs for the ram and thumb and welded them back on in a better spot.
So the ire20 has a 14 hp kubota diesel engine which is great. The machine has a weight of just 1600 lbs though. My Takeuchi TB016 has a 13.8 hp Yanmar diesel engine which is great. But the Takeuchi has a weight of 3,524 lbs.
The extra weight of the TB016 may be good as (counter weight), and the machine may have a stronger steel frame and stick with heavier pins and bushings, bigger hydraulic cylinders, and tracks that move in to get through a 42" gate, and move out to be 48" wider for stability. It's also easier to get wider buckets.
1. That seems common, mine tracks straight while swinging but you can hear it working harder. 2. There are lots of complaints I have read from gas and diesel 2 ton owners that their machines were shipped with not actual hydraulic fluid just some kind of transport fluid. I think it is probably janky stuff and I have read multiple people being satisfied with performance after swapping the fluid to 46. Another popular thing seems to be to put stiffer springs over the pilot plungers to tame down the jerkyness. 3. The thumbs are definitely hit or miss on these and at the auction I bought mine at they had 5 of these lined up in a row and 2 of them I could see the the pin holes were over an inch off from the others. Mine does not hit the boom but now I wonder if those other 2 machines would lol.
It definitely feels half as heavy as the tb016s I have rented. Digging force is low and it feels tippy like it needs a lot more counterweight. I have a lot of lead bars and plan on welding up a rack to go under the sheet metal that's shaped like a counterweight, (lol no seriously it's sheet metal) to fill with lead. Mine came with two 5/8" steel plates welded together and bolted as a counterweight.
Started some more fiddling this morning and switched the control pattern from SAE to ISO as that's what I'm more comfortable with. Discovered the Chinese just haphazardly sent some tri lobe self tappers in until they stripped in a couple places on the floor pan so I'll be drilling those out and giving them a nut sert. Also discovered the foot controls that operate the thumb and the grading blade are the laziest most last minute ship it out the door solution to operate a valve. They have an m8 bolt through some flat steel bar loose with a lock nut on the valve spool and a pivot point on the valve. Binds up in every direction when nearly snugged flush to the steel bar stock of the foot control. Flops around all sad and loose when loosened to the point of no longer binding. Just disconnecting the foot controls through the sheet metal to get the floor pan off was a pain in the ass. Of course they used way too long of bolts with whatever was probably laying around so had to undo the rear ones on the fixed part of the valve and then rotate the valve spool to get the front bolt out otherwise it hits the pressure regulator adjustment screw. Fancy mechanical puzzle those Chinese sure are crafty. So once I get through the hydraulic fluid swap and doing some tidying up of hose routing I'll be throwing some m8 shoulder bolts and brass washers in the foot controls temporarily until I figure out how I'm going to move the control of those either with heim joint linkage or some kind of cable control. Started digging up a bush in the back yard and so far other than feeling like it's got no counterweight it's running very smooth and all the functions besides the foot controls work the way they should. Still haven't fiddled with any of the attachments yet.
Exactly my plan. My hope is some non mechanical homeowner types run ethanol gas through their gas powered ones and end up scrapping them for a no start condition by next spring. First auction I was at this spring I saw over 50 gas ones get sold, buddy of mine said he saw over a hundred at the RB auction. Already have my junkyard guy keeping his feelers out for them.
I know the answer but I'll ask it anyway - So these machines are basically buyer beware with no warranty? Buying this little machines by the container load and selling them might be a lucrative business with no warranty..
I would guess yes if at auction. I bought directly from the manufacturer. I got a warranty and support. Unfortunately that service left something to be desired. With my stand on loader, there was a bad weld on the track frame. It broke and allowed some distortion of the frame. I tried my best to send pics and describe the problem and the part I needed. I was send a large pile of expensive parts to repair it. Unfortunately, I got a bunch of stuff I didn't need instead of the one part I needed. I would have been far less expensive for them to send the one part I did need.
The auction was as is no warranty but the machine had a piece of paper that said it allegedly has a one year warranty. I could be wrong but I doubt there's anyone going to answer my emails or phone calls if I break something during this "warranty". I bought it as buyer beware and fiddled around the auction lot with it for 15 minutes before deciding it was worth bidding on. There's definitely a market for volume sales, the demand is there if the price is right. Auction dude said there were over 50 bids from proxy bid and about 20 from their own website for the 5 identical 2 ton machines.
Am I the only one who thinks it's morally wrong to be buying durable goods from a country that: 1) Hates the USA and views us as their biggest enemy, 2) steals our intellectual property, 3) ignores copyright and patent laws, 4) treats their workforce like crap, 5) treats the end buyer (you) like crap, and 6) delivers products of abhorrent quality? There's a lot more at stake than just a cheap price, I wish people would wake up and look at the big picture. Nowadays it seems most people just want cheap crap, tons of it, and want it now.....
No you aren't the only one. However, I'm 34 years old, the offshoring of domestic manufacturing began way before I was born. The brand name equipment that does exist has priced me out for new equipment and I have been shopping and trying to make the logistics of buying a used brand name mini excavator work for about 6 years now. My budget options for buying something vaguely reliable with a brand name without going into serious debt with no immediate revenue stream for this excavator puts me in burned out or clapped out machine territory. While I do pride myself on my mechanical abilities I do know my limitations, I have no garage, very small machine tools for fabrication or repair work and only a 10x12 flat cement slab on my property, pulling a high hour engine out and doing a complete overhaul is unrealistic with my current circumstances, line boring I would have to pay someone for. Most of the brand name machines I have looked at over the years needed significant repair costs, engine rebuilds, sloppy bores, torn up worn out undercarriages, unbelievably expensive or flat out unavailable spare parts, questionable histories and signs of rental abuse. What's at stake is outside my control. I didn't vote or have the choice put to vote that made brand name equipment so far outside my budget that I'd be looking at putting my home equity up as collateral for a loan. I would have much rather bought a better non Chinese machine, but the decisions my parents generation made are the consequences I have to live with, and I would argue they weren't given a seat at the negotiating table when the offshoring and profit driven choices started either. A mini excavator is not a complicated machine either so I do place some blame on big companies for getting rightfully undercut in this free market they have lobbied our government so hard for to extract as much profit as possible to make their stock price go up. You can't convince me there isn't a coordinated effort among manufacturers either to have some price stability along tonnage of equipment, they could have made a 10 thousand dollar "2 ton" machine with the same features as mine, they just chose not to, because it would make people question why the larger machines are more expensive too. It's a game and I'm playing it too. So now I'm giving money to a communist government instead of a soulless publicly traded corporation with no allegiance to any nation only to the most favorable trade conditions as demonstrated by the offshoring of their manufacturing.
The whole country hates us? Are you sure they view us as an enemy vs adversary or more benign term like competitor? Do you personally know anyone from China or are you basing this on propaganda? Treats their workforce like crap? Once again, have you any first hand experience or just hearsay? Is our workforce treated that much better? They treat their buyers like crap? Any first hand experience with this? Have you been treated like a king with every person/company you have dealt with that is US based? I was satisfied with my dealings with the company I did business with: 2loader.com or https://cncougar.en.made-in-china.com/ I also did not find my equipment to be of 'abhorrent quality'. Shall we discuss US made cars in the 70's and 80's? K cars ring a bell? You may not like their government and its policies. They may not like ours. Does that mean we should hate the individuals trapped in the system? It was the Soviet Union when I was a kid. We were taught that they hated us and if you ever met a Russian they would try to kill you. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now. They are likely just a bunch of INDIVIDUALS trying to make their way thought life as best they can, JUST LIKE US. So, I do not think it is morally wrong to buy from China.
Let me start by saying I don't mean to be badgering you personally, it's just these are all things that need to be put out there, things that most people don't even think about or consider. I understand why people buy these, I just wish they would reconsider. I think there is a big misconception in this country on wants vs needs. Everyone used to get by just fine with a whole lot less, 20-30yrs ago it would be unheard of for most homeowners, small land owners, etc to have the equipment they do now. Unfortunately most is either low end Chinese stuff or purchased on credit. I don't know everyone's personal and financial situation so I'll leave how you spend your money up to you, but I'd just like people to realize when you make a purchase you are 100% voting with your wallet. In a free market like ours ultimately the consumer has the final say, many don't realize or exercise their power, but en masse we do. You may or may not be voting against the high end brands, but you most certainly are voting for the cheap, low end, Chinese equipment, which in many ways brings the entire market down to their level. As for quality, generally speaking I do believe you get what you pay for. There is a reason the Kubota U17, Tak TB216, Cat 301.8 etc cost 2-4x as much. Run one back to back vs a Chinese machine for a few hours and it's very obvious. Better yet, own one for 5-10-15yr, deal with the company on a regular basis for parts, service, accessories/attachments, technical support and resale value, and it becomes even more apparent.
Hey it's not personal and I completely agree with you. I wanted a better excavator but could not find one that wasn't setting off alarm bells for needing a huge overhaul or financing way above my budget. I could not find anything in between. I sincerely doubt this thing will last 10 years hopefully long before that I will have made enough money with this one to buy a better brand name one. I really could not stomach the risk with the used brand name machines I looked at before deciding to get this Chinese Frankenstein machine. I felt better buying new off brand crap than buying absolutely worn out brand name stuff. My local equipment dealers could not fathom that I wasn't interested in financing. Maybe I'm too risk averse but this is side work until it isn't, until then I'm operating at a loss while keeping my full time job, I'm just not going to commit 20+ thousand to something I don't have a known revenue stream for.
When I refer to China I'm referring to the Chinese government, not the people. The CCP most definitely views the US as an adversary, at the very least. They don't like us, they only like our money. They have little to no respect for international law, intellectual property, etc. You are 100% correct that the general public in China is trapped and many/most do not share the views of their government, but in a dictatorship their economy is run through their government. My views of the CCP are shaped directly through experiences my immediate family has/had working in the US military, scientific fields, and academia amongst others. I won't go into any further details as this is a publicly viewable forum. As for the US, of course not everything we have made has been the best. Just like you can't unequivocally say that everything made in China is junk. But I prefer to do business with countries and companies that are friends and allies. As I've mentioned in other threads, while I do buy made in USA whenever possible, I'll gladly purchase items made in Japan, Germany, Canada, UK, etc. And I will say by and large most of those companies have treated me very well.
I tend to agree with MG84 in the sense that it's better to repair a domestic branded product (even if it's mostly Japanese or Korean made) than to buy a new Chinese product. There's pros and cons to all of it - no matter which brand you buy. I can say without a doubt, if I wanted a job done and was paying someone else to do it, and they pulled up with one of these rigs, I'd ask them to leave and hire someone else. Mostly the people buying these are DIY mentality people who really can't take care of much. I don't know how many "Do it yourself" types I've come across who take their vehicles to GreaseMonkey for oil changes. Because they 'only' paid $80 at Grease Monkey and not $300 at their dealer... lol, they feel like they got a deal. People will buy these items, and if they don't have a machine shop handy, these will sit dormant after their first major failure. Where do you get all the parts to fix these - drive sprockets, final drives, pins, bushings, etc? Is it all on eBay? Now, what about 10-20 years from now... Chinese products are VERY well known for becoming obsolete in a short time and have no recourse to getting parts after that time period is up. So buy one, have fun! But... it's a money pit long term, or a lawn ornament if you don't pay to fix it. YMMV of course. I'm one of those people that will take on projects well outside of my scope and work on it to the point of repair and full operation. I've been lucky so far. Pretty sure that even stuff like TYM or Kioti will give me a very difficult time in time. Everything you buy now will have good support for 5 or 10 years. But MY newest gear is from 2001. So I have to look at it like that. I highly doubt the Chinese gear, even if it lasts that long, will have any viable parts no matter how successful a product it was. you'll be buying other people's complete machines as parts rigs, or you'll be selling your complete machine for parts. Just my opinion.
This dynamic did cross my mind but having shown a couple buddies with landscaping businesses my toy excavator I already have had a cold call from one of their customers asking about pricing for drilling a couple hundred fence post holes. I think the homeowner types don't care as long as it gets done.
that's funny. I have a plate compactor on my 2001 JD 50 ZTS. I am building a spike and cup - so that I can preset a hole, place the post in it, and the cup will grab the top of the post and then vibrate the post in. Without the cup to hold, I can push a 10' (cut length) drill stem 2' into the ground, leaving 8' for fencing, in less than 30 seconds. the other 5 minutes are me trundling over to the location, and getting everything lined up. I put in 10 posts spaced 16' apart, and taking my time with my wife holding the posts at the start... it took about 15-20 minutes. My Dad has hydraulic post auger, and it's meant for a single person to operate, has wheels, long neck, huge leverage, easy to use. it would have take 5-10 minutes per post with that. So, if you can swing it, get yourself a post pounder or plate compactor for that little rig, it might make life easier for that kind of work. if you are going to be doing that kind of work, get some magnetic levels you can attach to your auger so you can see your state of level as you bore the hole.
Good tip definitely want plumb holes. I was going to send a couple holes in my rocky yard first to see if the Chinese auger will rip the fleets off or if i need to add some weld in any spots. Will look into a post pounder, in my area the ground can be horribly rocky so I'm not sure how well that would work.
pounders work really well in rocky ground in the Spring and early Summer. Depends on their power I think. Right now, my plate compactor is just slamming stuff into the ground, and I have very rocky soil. mostly potato sized rocks, lots of crush, but I pull engine-block sized rocks out of the ground about 3-4 times a month. In the high Summer and early Fall, nothing except the ripper and smaller buckets with high pressure will make much of a dent. we have a clay mix that contractors call "Hardpan" around here which is something like a weak concrete. very tough stuff, makes gooey mud in the spring.
I have been to China twice back in the mid-late 2000's and went to several electronic based factories. Most factories had a barracks in the back 3-4 stories with small quarters as they were not big enough to be called an apartment by any standard. They worked 30 days on average then get to go home for 2-3 days, rinse and repeat. One particular barracks when you flushed the toilet it ran out and down the wall in a PVC pipe and dumped out in a gutter that ran along the back of the barracks. Same plumbing as the 4 story factory. This particular factory was making CNC machines. Stayed in Hong Kong both times with trips into the mainland. Had a day trip from HK to Shenzhen and passed a factory with orange smoke the color of a traffic cone coming out of the stack. Took a high speed train from HK to Guangzhou crossing the HK and China border. As were were approaching the border you could see the double row of fencing and look out towers crossing the landscape. When we got closer you could see the rolls of barbed wire on top of the fencing was facing inward in order to keep people in, not out. Another thing about China at that time was everything was fake - coke, Marlboro's, you name the American brand it was 99% chance it was fake. Now I haven't been back in over 15 years so a lot can change. There is a thread somewhere here on HEF where I posted pics of the trip.
I must have got a day 29 machine they stripped so many bolts in the sheet metal. I bet those day 1 and two machines are half decent.
15 minutes of use and he's bent the thumb already. Poor quality steel be aware. I didn't finish the video, it's possible it has a good ending. Also sounds like this is a Demo machine here to get a review and in testing. Still.. this seems like a rather basic error/flaw.
This is actually extremely common with these Chinese machines they either have no relief valve or one with a minimum that's still too high for the thumb and the bucket can tear, crush or bend stuff when curling the bucket into it while holding something. The fix is a relief valve with the 500-1500psi range instead of the 2000+psi one that comes on them. I have a set of gauges and a relief valve on the way to avoid this exact problem. But yes also Chinese soft steel. Considering the one in the video failed the way it did a harder pin would have probably bent the thumb somewhere else. Definitely consider these machines unfinished products.
If it does not work out of the box, what is the point? It would not take much effort to do a test and set reliefs properly at manufacturing. The tiny bit of steel from that pee poor design holding the thumb load is an insult too. Look at the failure mode.
The point is its cheap as **** and has brand new engine and hydraulics. So stuff that a real company would have the foresight to include in a finished product like a relief valve with lower pressure to prevent an operator from tearing the thumb off when curling the bucket isn't part of the deal. It's like buying an unfinished kit. Finish the kit and it's a half decent excavator shaped thing that does vaguely what an excavator will do at way less of an entry cost with hopefully more reliability of zero hour engine and hydraulics. Who knows, maybe 6 months from now this thread will turn into me whining about how I wasted nearly 10 grand on a machine that keeps breaking and how I'm a dipshit for not buying a used brand name machine.
It's interesting because China does have the capability to produce good stuff. Sany and XCMG are both top 10 producers. I suppose it's the same thing as people who are fabricators of various things. Some 'business opportunity' comes up and they start fabricating complete machines based on the teardown of something else someone else built. I've seen plenty of crap trailers built by guys in their shop, some have evolved into actual trailer companies, and they produce decent stuff now. in some ways, I think these crap excavators are the result of a similar entrepreneurial spirit... they are taking a chance and starting a company. Producing stuff that's basically low-end - and unfinished as Bill states. if they sell enough of them, they could be the NEXT Sany or XCMG. or, it's a fly-by-night just rebranding someone else's junk and making a quick turnaround profit on new labeling.
It is just a lazy ass rush out the door with a crap product. OP, you may think you are saving boatloads of money but when I work I have stuff to do, not fix something so it functions. It is a false savings. You need to put a value on all of your time, unless fixing junk is a happy place for you.
I would consider Sany and XCMG to be bottom of the barrel too. Maybe a step above the equipment being discussed in this thread, but not by much. Poor to non-existent dealer network, very little after sale parts/warranty/service support, and resale values so ****-poor they'll churn your stomach....
Oh, don't get me wrong, I had the chance to buy a brand new Sany 50U or 60 whatever size excavator for 80k with 0% apr for 5 years. Good financing, etc. Also had the chance to buy a used 2016 or so Sany 50U for about $30k. They have rotten resale comparatively speaking, so you can get them pretty inexpensively. I passed on both and waited another few months for 'my deal' to show up, which was a beat to heal 2001 Deere 50 ZTS. I spent $20k on it and put $10k in parts and a full Summer's worth of work into it. it's a simple fantastic machine now, and I'm very happy with it. The machine, when I bought it, would EASILY have fit in to most people's definition of junk. But because it is a Deere, most parts would be easily sourced (even if they were Hitachi branded). It's now something I'm positive I could sell for $35-$45 k depending on market. Will take the right buyer because most construction guys won't want something from 2001! Doesn't matter anyway, I'm not selling it for years to come. Point being, I doubt you'll get more than a few hundred from anyone one on these Chinese machines. the only things of value will be the engine and the pump, mabye the rotring. but they won't hold their value, they are being made out of inferior materials. My deere had 3000 pretty hard hours - running a plate compactor for flattenting septic tank excavations. All I needed to do was press and replace pins and bushings. None of the metal in the frame was cracked, the boom needs a line bore, but... you *CAN* do that, so its' worth doing. Getting a machine you cannot do heavy maintenance on later in it's life, yeah... that's no fun! We each have our hills to die on. I LOVE reconditioning old equipment to use. I have NO tolerance for modifying/fixing brand new equipment so I can use it. If I buy it 'new' I expect it to work for a few thousand hours and not need me to do anything other than basic maintenance.
I have a full time job managing equipment. Fixing junk in my spare time is actually something I do find some enjoyment in. I have a bobcat t136 trencher I just woke up from the dead from a junkyard. Also a rammax trench roller that I'm rebuilding the hatz 2 cylinder diesel in. If I wanted to start a construction company I would just do what everyone else does and go into massive debt. I'm just trying to do some side work and see if it picks up enough to justify buying better stuff.
I did mean that literally. My happy places are inventing and fabbing up fun things, and doing woodwork and building cabinets. I look at that thumb picture and see several problems that I am not geared up to do. My friend Ben has a lathe and CNC mill and I pay him to do those things. That is HIS happy place. On that stick, anywhere they are pivoting a bolt in a hole is going to hammer out over time. It needs a machined thicker boss welded on in a jig at the manufacturing stage of the game. For me to come back and beef those bores after the fact would be an unhappy place, LOL.
I like inventing too. I have several one off hydrojetting cutting tools in service at my work that I designed and fabricated that do a better job than anything you can buy off the shelf. One day I'll find someone who wants to go in on making that a business. I would honestly be surprised if I get enough hours on it to slop a pin hole out. At least this versions pins have grease zerks. The early ones had no way to lube them. It's definitely more an excavator shaped object than an actual excavator. My test gauges came in the mail today so I'll be finding out soon if it's pushing 2000+psi on the thumb. Thinking about it now I might have to plumb in a selector valve so I can reduce the thumb to like 500psi on one relief valve and be able to switch it to the stock manifold at several thousand psi to run the attachments.
I love to resurrect and restore worn out things. I have the welders, a lathe and a knee mill. I would love to do Camaro’s, GTO’s, Chevelle’s and such but being that a roller can be 20k or more, they are out of my league. Instead it’s heavy equipment, one piece at a time, other than my other job. I would look at one of these as a challenge, to reverse engineer a stolen design, to begin with. That thumb in the video, would be an easy fix. While it would disappoint me that the design was **** poor, it wouldn’t surprise me, at that price point. Do I try and buy American, of course but after dealing with motorcycles most my life, that buy only American attitude, left me long ago. That is not a hill, I try and climb anymore. I just try and be honest to myself and work with what I’ve got and can afford, as most of this, is a hobby for me.
I hope this thread stays on topic and doesn't devolve into a political argument. Kudos to those who have already made good points on the pros/cons of buying Chinese vs. shelling out for actual machines (LOL). I can speak from both sides of the argument and will give a spoiler up front that I quickly learned my lesson, which I already knew, which is that you get what you pay for. I was a city dweller for 30 years and finally bought my dream 10 acre homestead earlier this year. I very quickly bought a Kioti tractor which I didn't know I needed and now use everyday. I do a lot of tree work, clearing and am doing a lot of building which means a lot of trenching, which means mini excavator. 3 months later I can't see ever doing without one. I was blown away when I found a Rippa (1 ton) on Facebook for $6500 a few hours from me. I jumped, seemed like a no brainer when I was seeing commercial grade equipment the same size for 5 times the price. It took me all of 2 weeks to realize what a pile of garbage it was. Yes, it digs holes and does mini-ex types of things ok. But what about the day it doesn't? No manual, no parts support, no nothing. I got scared and listed it for sale. Oddly enough a guy who runs excavators for a living bought it. I bet he's sold it by now. He said he wanted to try one out. I think it was about the second hour of breathing the un-muffled exhaust from a 13.5 gas engine under my ass that made me reconsider. That thing rattled some sense into me. Sorry for the novel but I'll sum this up this way. If you need a deal and only plan to use a mini-ex very lightly then go for the Walmart Chinese one. If you want one to keep and actually use then buy once, cry once and you'll see how much better it is from every angle. First machine, Rippa R10 pro ($6750 including delivery to my house) Second machine, Hyundai Robex R17/Kubota powered, 2 ton, ($16k with 1k hours) I would ideally like a 3-4 ton machine but I think I'd be backing up at that point. They destroy turf and gravel too badly for my use case.
there was a IHI-40jx on my local craigslist last night for $7000. Isuzu diesel 3LC1 or similar. looked like hell. about 4T. Definitely going to need some work. I tried to get some friends to call/look. Nope, not shiny enough. I just don't get it. that was a hell of a buy - someone bought it this morning or last night, it's gone now. That's not Chinese stuff, but if all you are looking at is price, that's my advice, don't worry about shiny paint!
you get good at picking dryer times of the year, and laying out plywood with bigger machines. If you have really fine topsoils they are the worst and don't spring back as well. If you get some 18" wide rips of 1" form ply they spread out and even out the forces from a 35. This is a pristine lawn at the boss's house. I had to jump down in there over this little wall and had the 6x6 steel sheet for landing. Note the plywood and dunnage for the bucket assisted spin on the sheet and over the wall. Get the sheets and plywood up quickly. No harm no foul. The only thing I had them do is halt the irrigation that week. Once I got in there they watered it and then dried it back out for the trip out. The next fun was jumping up on that little curb and dunnage and plywood to protect the pool edge overhang.
I would have snagged that.
Neighbour down the road has one of those little Chinese tracked skid steers. For what it is and what it costs it's perfect for little jobs around the property. He's lent it to me a couple times and it's saved me hours of work. For the amount it gets used it's really not worth it to shell out $20k to $30k on a name brand unit. I 100% agree though these machines definitely aren't high enough quality that I'd trust my livelihood with it if I were a small landscaper or contractor.
Yeah, it crossed my mind to run up and get it. but... I really don't need yet another project. Just this past wednesday, we picked up a used Kioti DK4510, there's getting to be too much stuff here. I'm going to have to sell off something soon..
Moving the magnetic north pole are we ? Join the club.
Small update. At 12 hours of time on it now much more comfortable operating it moved a lot of logs and removed some small trees. I'm sure you'll all find this hard to belive but I did manage to bend the thumb too.
My neighbor bought one of these 2000lb jobs. I'll have to point him at this thread. He's got a fixed thumb, but is desiring a hydraulic one.
I work for a custom spring manufacturer in Oregon and designed a spring kit for the pilot controls on my AGT 1.8t mini-ex. 900 kits sold since I launched in April. People are happy with them...making a difference in smoothing out controls. www.SpringPilot.com
I am engaged in this field, I think I have some say, this domestic small excavator has few after-sales parts on the market, it is recommended to buy Yanmar or Kubota or Caterpillar 301.5, it will be a problem to find parts when it breaks down.
Why do people assume it will be a problem to get parts. My machine has a Kubota diesel. All the hydraulic stuff is name brand. There may be a few things one can't just pick off a parts diagram and order, but can certainly be sourced locally with a minimal amount of effort. I have gotten parts from the manufacturer for mine as well, though all mfg's may not be as easy/responsive. www.2loader.com I have no affiliation, just a customer.
You probably misunderstood what I meant. If you buy a whole device from this dealer, you must be able to buy the corresponding parts. I am talking about dealers that only sell OEM parts. The parts that can be sold in my place are all popular and recognized models. Unpopular ones may not be sold. This has an advantage that you can easily purchase them at a very low price.
Thanks for sharing this, your experience lines up with what I’ve heard a lot from folks who buy the ultra-budget models with no after-sales support. The “no manual, no parts, no service” problem is real, and it catches people off guard. I think there’s still a gap in the market for something in between the no-name machines and the $30K+ dealer models — especially for folks like you working land or doing side projects who still want something reliable. The trick is knowing which ones are supported and which are drop-shipped with no backup. I’ve been working a lot with compact excavators in the 1.5–4 ton range lately, and I’d be happy to share notes on what to look for if you’re ever comparing models or trying to spec something out. That Robex sounds like a solid step up, especially with the Kubota engine — glad to hear it’s working out better.
Update on the China excavator. Been really busy with my real job I have done a couple small jobs still under 50 hours on the machine. Engine oil is still clear which is somewhat surprising for a diesel. Bought a heavy tilt deck trailer for real cheap to move it around. Need to weld some d rings on the undercarriage to reduce time spent fiddling chaining it down. Absolutely need to add counterweight feels like it's 500lbs shy of where it should be. Pulled the sheet metal off to check for leaks and hoses rubbing, found no issues. Played around with some of the other buckets and attachments I bought with it. Honestly not a fan of any of the extra buckets I bought the stock one has better geometry on the ears and the pins for the stock bucket are greaseable and vaguely hardened. The tilt bucket is terrible. The little root ripper is nice though. I'll be selling all the extra stuff. The sickle bar attachment I had no use for when I bought the machine just because it looked interesting has turned out to be the one attachment that has landed a real job for this machine. Mowing thick vines and brush on the tall steep slopes around my neighbors property. He's already got some of his friends sending me their addresses to come by and give them quotes. This might actually be the most practical use for this class of lightweight machine. The big advantage is this fits in between the niche of slopes too steep for a wheeled machine to drive on because I don't have to and tractor pto mounted attachments can't reach up as high as I can with this. Tightening the foot control aux circuit bolts let's me keep the vavle open without holding it with my foot and I can just track around slowly and slice through stuff at the exact profile of the slope.
that's fantastic! what a great idea. I've already bought one of those cheap tilt/cleanup 36" buckets for $600 for a "5 ton Chinese" . I've begun the work of adapting it with Deere/Hitachi Wedge quick connects. This looks like the next project! I was actually going to adapt a hydraulic motor (Cessna brand) for one of my old Gravely walk-behind mowers - so I could attach it to my mini. A sickle bar would be a better solution though rather than a 36" round blade. thanks for posting this, it'll solve a lot of issue for me!
these low-cost machines are imported by 3rd parties at a 300% markup.and it may surprise most in the usa but the worker are payed on par with us employees china is where Korea was 20 years a go and japan was 60years so give them 10 years ,and g,h us
I too have a 5’ sickle bar cutter with extensions for use on my Tak TB23R. I’ve used it a few times in the spring and it does take getting used to. I’ve fairly stuck the boot into it and it’s performed well especially in the heavier branches which a chainsaw would be a better option. It’s a Slanetrak cutter made in Nothern Ireland UK and will be getting put back on in October to do the winter cutting.
Nice... I've got one of these for my skid steer and I'm trying to get it dialed in so to speak... do you have it so that the valve is all the way open when in use? I know this isn't really apples to apples, but I'm trying to find a good speed to run mine at... I have continuous flow on my machine so I can hold it at whatever speed I want it at.... but wide open seems way too fast. Do you keep yours wide open? halfway? just looking for somebody else's experiences! Thanks! ( My sickle bar attachment is supposed to be operated at 15-20 GPM, but I don't have a way to monitor that)
I do have mine all the way open and I run the engine at full throttle but my machine does have a pair of bulkhead fittings going to the thumb circuit diverter valves which is probably reducing flow significantly. There is definitely a sweet spot of balancing the harmonics of the sickle bar mower to the flow rate, around 70% throttle it shakes my machine a lot and smooths out above that.
Thanks for the info...definitely a sweet spot i need to find. Currently waiting on parts to come in for it (broke way too easily), then I'll get back after it! Thansk again
Update on the saga of the Chinese excavator... Long blog post incoming so skip to the bottom for some pics and review if that's what you care about. Full transparency because smarter or just as curious folks may be interested. Its been 232 days since I have bought this machine for just over 8k after taxes. I still have not completely made enough money with it to pay for itself. I have made what I would consider good money in very brief moments with it though. So far the most cash positive endeavor has been sickle bar brush cutting a farmers embankment where others have failed with much more expensive skid steer mulchers and brush mowers. Landed spring work with 3 more farmers properties for this niche and that will push me well over what I spent on the machine plus the cost of the trailer. Quotes from me previously... "I felt better buying new off brand crap than buying absolutely worn out brand name stuff." Still 80% confident in this theory based on what I have done with it. The lack of machine weight is a significant drawback compared to a brand name machine and I have been lazy and haven't fabricated a counterweight solution yet but I have been getting good at using the boom as counterweight while tracking on hills, I have lots of of lead bar ready for spring when I feel more motivated to make it more stable. "Who knows, maybe 6 months from now this thread will turn into me whining about how I wasted nearly 10 grand on a machine that keeps breaking and how I'm a dipshit for not buying a used brand name machine." I haven't broken anything besides bending the thumb which I knew I would do and after getting more seat time on it I am much more confident in my ability to avoid such a preventable problem in the future. None of the hydraulic or engine or electronic components have failed or leaked in any manner I couldn't repair myself by tightening fittings. "I would honestly be surprised if I get enough hours on it to slop a pin hole out." WELL DARN FOLKS I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS ONE LOL. Seems as if one of the bores was clearanced by paint. Got a sloppy bore in the boom with visible endplay even though I have been meticulous about grease, probably too much grease but whatever. It's still tighter than clapped out rental stuff but truly annoying considering my theory of new vs used. Concessions... Now... for the realistic review... I'm at 34 hours, not gentle hours either... still got clear engine oil somehow, honestly baffled by this one. Might actually be a real kubota engine. The last 15+ hours have been hammering on it showing no mercy in tracking over rocky muddy crap terrain and running the aux circuit hard on the sickle bar mower. Got it hot enough to become uncomfortable sitting on it but the machine never quit or leaked. Sickle bar mower attachment still holding up well seems overbuilt like it was designed for a tractor then had some ears welded on for a last minute excavator attachment. I tore all the sheet metal off around 15 hours to identify hose rubbing and added little bits of zip tied slit hoses to prevent bigger issues. Brand name machines probably resolve these issues by having better designs. Something that has become apparent which wasn't at all within the first couple hours is all of the fuel hose is terrible, possibly not even diesel rated, every piece of hose is cracking at the clamp, there's also an additional in line fuel filter which I didn't find until further investigation which seems compassionate on the Chinese side for accommodating crap in the tank. Also note the "never open" coolant cap sticker lol. So the spring project goal for this machine entails new fuel hose everywhere, new spin on fuel filter, getting rid of the in lawnmower tier in line filter, and the 50 hour oil change. Already did the hydraulic oil change, might consider doing a completely new large diameter hose to and from the pump and valve for aux circuit to boost flow to the sickle bar mower attachment and reduce restrictions from the bulkhead fittings and thumb vavles. Maybe a return filter for the aux side if I get further into needing the other attachments.
Additional photos because *** is the 4 photo limit who is running this website lol Sheet metal off... Fuel hose cracking... Anyway. Someone will probably find this vaguely interesting or worthy of talking some smack so here you go
Glad its working out for you, but I'd be interested in how the machine is holding up after some real work. No offense, but running that sicklebar mower is about the lightest duty work I could think of for an excavator. Put a few hundred digging, trenching, clearing/stumping hours on it and report back.
Never open? Then why does it have a cap that opens? 34 hours and the fuel hoses are cracking? I've got 10 year old trench rollers with original fuel hoses.
Why ? it's not a direct replacement for the more expensive ones, it has a niche.
My fuel hoses looked like shiite as well. I replaced them. I am close to 200 hrs on mine. I don't baby it. I do mainly land clearing (smaller trees up to 8" diameter or so, stumps up to 24" diameter, and palmettos), and dig drain field trenches. Still chugging along. May change the oil one day. Tried a heavy then light weight hydraulic oil, still jerky when hot. Tracks are looking rough, have a new spare set here for when they actually fail. Starter button stuck one time, burned up the starter motor. I replaced it with a cheap Amazon one. It must have run the starter for 30-45 minutes. I noticed when smoke started pouring out from under the engine cover.
A very well written and unbiased post. Keep us updated please.
Your honesty sets you apart and gives people things to think about. Much appreciated. Simon C
I’m not convinced on the new chicom version vs well worn name brand. I personally opted for the well worn name brand. I bought the ugliest bobcat E10 Richie brothers had about a year ago. Did some fixing, it’s all pretty darn good. The thing i fight with it is hoses going bad.
From what has been posted on this site the hoses are junk in short order on some of these cheapy's. Simon C
Well as i said mine’s not the cheapie. But is well used (1150 is hours). Mine is a used Bobcat. Mostly it’s the pilot line hoses that have been going. I don’t think the chicom machines have pilot controls. I think i still prefer the fixer upper.
I was referring to the chinese ones with cheap hoses and stuff. Yours with 1150 hours is a better buy in my opinion, and yes all will have hoses fail, just your will be further along in life before having to. Simon C
Mine has pilot controls.
I'm just as curious as you are and I'll keep posting about it occasionally as I find work for it. This is just kind of a running experiment with some cash I had on the side to fill in free time and so far I'm not disappointed but I did go in on this expecting some Chinese shenanigans. Someone expecting a finished product ready to work would have been disappointed with just the small stuff I have addressed by now. If I get reasonably profitable with this, I am still going to use it, but it will be moving money towards a brand name machine.
Newer Chinese mini excavators offer both pilot hoses and real Kubota engines. They are no longer $5k with those parts. But they are all over eBay and Alibaba now. They will show up in droves... and I will be watching as people ask to have it hauled away - I'd LOVE to get one of those small diesels for my sawmill!
Just buy an old light plant for a small kubota engine. That’s about the cheapest you’ll find. It’s good they upped the game some on these diggers. A friend of mine bought one with a briggs and stratton engine.
Good read and seems you are well aware of what you bought. Looks cheap and not thought through in most the areas one would expect of a budget machine. Nothing that cant be upgraded or tweaked by someone with experience. In my opinion you made a good move. Day job can support this gamble while you get your beak wet taking on entry level jobs and testing the new machines overall quality. Its nice to be in a position to take a cheap gamble in the hopes it works out. Been there many times myself and by majority the cheap gamble panned out to be overwhelmingly positive. I bought a new cheap Daewoo machine back when Korean machines were the junkiest money pits according to others. Gave me a few early surprises from the way the hoses and wiring were routed/secured but I just strapped, padded, or rerouted what needed it. 24 years later I sold it with over 22k hours, and it never gave me any more trouble than my well-established Case machines. Best thing ive found after being around the larger Chinese equipment is its almost identical to the brand they reverse engineered and copied. Not sure if the little ones are as close but for example if you ever look at an SDLG, XCMG, or LiuGong you can just swap to better quality hard parts from Cat or Komatsu who they copied to the last bolt placement. SANY is the only one so far ive been around that actually has enough of their own design. Looking forward to reading more updates.
My Sany dealership also sells LuiGong for a few years now
Re the jerky controls, from another forum: I bought this thing primarily to drive hydraulic motor to drive helical piles in a location I cannot even get a bobcat to. It drives the hydraulic motor just fine even with just the 1/4 inch hyd hoses, might want to reset the hyd pressure higher as the hyd motor stalls out at 2400PSI (i added a pressure gauge on that line) , there is an adjustable pressure regulator on the hyd system. Methinks all the 'jerky' comments come from the pump being large enough to drive the track motors at a decent rate, which means the the small cylinders have a quick response. Might benefit from putting the flow restrictor on feed to all lines other than the track drives.
That is not something that should be celebrated, that's counterfeiting and intellectual property theft.
I don't know if they are screaming it from the roof tops but many a major brands (not just equipment) do the same thing and you only have to change a small percentage to make it legal
Counterfeiting only applies if they were selling the machines with another manufacturers label and deceiving the buyer who thinks its said other brand. They clearly sell under their own names. The intellectual property theft is only relevant if they are copying something with a current patent. That will fall under utility (20 years) or design (15 years). Youd have to dig around and find actual patent dates but from what ive seen in person of these Chinese brands is they are copying last generation or even older generations and not current generations. A patent is usually registered well in advance of the machine ever hitting the market and id bet most of the design patents on last generation equipment are expired by the time the Chinese brands choose to copy. Utility patents they copy at the bare minimum or just not at all and thats very obvious when operating their equipment or inspecting materials and wear points. Function and materials are in no way comparable to the CAT or Komatsu most of them copy. The Chinese brands fit the market at their price point and are obviously not intended to compete with the major companies that are leading the industry with new innovation and design. They pick up the scraps after the leaders leave the table. I cant say their isn't any current patent infringement but it doesnt look like it. In the case of XCMG and Komatsu ive read on their investor pages about one purchasing the other last generation designs outright to produce. There are also partnerships between other manufacturers happening in china alone that grand the Chinese companies legal rights to certain patents. I know its easier to just ride the "china is stealing everything" ban wagon but dig around through public information and youll find a lot more is purchased or picked up when patents expire.
Komatsu were doing that in respect of Cat machines. 50 years ago. Nothing new in the world.
While most of what you said was true, there is a lot more strong-arming in the 'purchase' of these designs than you might realize, if not outright theft. I have close friends/family/acquaintances that have to deal with this first hand and intellectual property theft by China is a very real problem. I'm not xenophobic at all, but the fact is there are definitely some 'Grad Students' and 'Interns' here in the US from China that are going through filing cabinets and computers when no one is looking. I've probably already said more than I should on a public forum so we'll just leave it at that.
Yes, different times and different players, but it isn't anymore right now vs then. I also don't buy Komatsu equipment for several reasons, but that being one, FWIW.