I have made who knows how many topics asking for advice on this and another site. Thats on top of asking everybody I know for advice. My decision is going against some of that advice. But at this point I still think its a good move. I haven't made the complete plunge into business for myself yet. But Im already sitting on a 1995 Ford L7000 single axle dump. So the purchasing has already begun. The dump truck was kind of an impulse purchase. Whats next I have thought long and hard about. It doesn't make sense to buy an entire fleet of equipment before having a single job lined up. I think I have a good chance of getting some construction debris removal contracts from a local builder. But that is FAR from being set in stone. Because of that I was leaning heavily towards a tracked skid steer. But since the construction debris removal is nothing definate, I have since decided that it might help to offer more variety with my first piece of equipment. So I think Im going to go with a Kubota L48 so I can offer backhoe/loader work, bush hogging, post hole digging, box blade, ect.. all without having to rent anything else. Here are my reasons why... * I have way more experience with backhoes than skid steers/compact track loaders. Hardly a day went by during my equipment operator days that I wasn't sitting on a 416 Cat or 555 Ford for some reason or another. I feel very confident in my skills using the front bucket and backhoe. * I currently have enough money to cover a 15% down payment on the L48. Since leasing is not an option with Kubota, and I would prefer not going through my bank, this is the cheapest up front way to get in a machine like this. * I still have the option and a very good chance of leasing a skid steer with less of an upfront cost later if I choose. * Almost every street corner has an equipment rental place renting skid steers and CTL's like the TL130. But nothing like an L48 is available for rent. * What backhoes are available at rental places are a little more than I care to be towing behind my truck. Or just the opposite, they are too small. * Yes, I know you can get attachments for skid steers that will do everything an L48 can do. But when it comes to attachments like the backhoe, box blade, and bush hog, a skid steer attachment holds nothing on an L48 in my opinion. * Again, renting or leasing later on when I feel the work justifies it is always an option. Good idea? yes/no... I wanna hear some honest opinions. I can't say thank you enough to those of you who have responded and given me advice since I have been a member here. I have learned so much.....
Having been one of those who offered my 2 cents worth, I have to say that if you're comfortable that you've researched the topic sufficiently, and you're comfortable that the decision you're making is the best one for you , then I don't think there's a whole lot more any of us can add except our best wishes and continued support. Good luck! :drinkup Oh, there is one thing I can add, in case you find somewhere down the road some other equipment setup might be the optimal one. This is advice I got from a guy who's been in the business since he was a kid--Remember, as far as buying and then selling equipment goes, it's not like you're getting married to the thing...
I 'll say one thing, the reason you don't see them in rental yards nobody want's them, if they could make $$$ with them they would have them!!!!!
I have to disagree. The L48 can do everything a conventional backhoe can do plus the option of having a cat 1 hitch. With the exception of a tight turning radius and compact size, I don't see the big advantage of a skid steer over it either. I feel there are other reasons why rental yards don't carry machines like it. Why invest in a machine that can multi task like the L48 when most people rent for only one purpose.
The skid steer is the #1 mutli tasker!!! look at all the attachments!!! you can't beat the skid steer !!! contractors before would laugh at them now they all have them !!!! & the price of the kubota compared to a skid steer big no!!! You do what you got to do but for my $$ you can't beat them!!!
Its much cheaper to marry your machine too The machine is just a means to make money, people borrow heaps more to buy flash cars that wont earn them a single cent. Good Luck
. I know they are versatile. Your preaching to the choir about that. Its very possible a skid steer will end up in my possession within the first couple of months along with the L48. I talked with a dealer about a leasing option he had on a TL130 and it was very much in a range I felt comftorable being able to afford. But like I said, every rental yard around here has them. So I will always have the option. I still feel more comftorable in the versatility of the L48 for starting out. A skid steer is versatile. But finding those attachments available for rent in my area is another matter. Even the local Bobcat dealer/rental place only rents 4 in 1's, grapple buckets, concrete hammers, forks, and a 15' auger. Don't ask me why, Id be suprised if it was because the demand just wasn't there....
Stroker, I have both a skidsteer and a Deere 110TLB (similar to L48) in my business and find I use the Deere (as a backhoe and skiploader) about 70% of the time. I would like to use the skidsteer more but find I can do the job easier of quicker most of the time with the Deere. However, there are those jobs that nothing can beat a skidsteer at and that is when I use it. I think your logic is good and if you feel more comfortable with the L48 at this point, then you should start there. You can always add a skidsteer later if needed. While you are using the L48, ask yourself on each job if a skidsteer would do the job better. When you start getting a number of jobs where you think it would be better, then it is time to think about a purchase. I have used this process when contemplating equipment purchases and have never gone wrong. When it gets to the point that I see uses on a number of jobs for a different piece of equipment I get serious about purchasing it. Good luck.
The L48 is fine and good, but when you have alot of dirt to move, you will have wished you bought a skid steer. Fine grading with a TLB sucks, and any amount of speed work with the loader is paintakingly slow because you're not using pilot controls. God knows how how horrible those manual over hydraulic piston controlled valves for the loader are. There's no "feeling" whatsoever and feathering the bucket is almost impossible. HST is slow, moving your foot back and forth all day gets tiring compared to using your hands to control the machine, or a simple shuttle shift like a full size hoe would be much nicer than HST. We have a Kubota L3410 with a Woods loader and I can't imagine using it for landscaping, let alone as a single source of our business. Plain and simple our Cat 216 beats the tires off the tractor, hands down. Plus the skid steer is almost HALF THE PRICE!!! Just the little things that make the difference. If you were to go with a TLB the Deere 110 is a much better machine IMO. It has a backhoe style loader control, a better seat, a skid steer attachment plate on the loader, quick couple front hydraulics, plus a couple other things. I can't tell you how to spend your money but with a dump truck it sounds like you're going to be doing alot of dirt work and with a tractor it's almost not feasible.
You are all making valid points. Like I said in my last post, if I feel I need the skid steer, I will get one. No law saying you can't get a skid steer just because you own an L48...LOL My point was I think the L48 is a more versatile machine for me starting out. I also don't feel uncomftorable in my abilities to grade with the front bucket of a backhoe. Ive had to do my share of it, beleive me. The L48 also has the quick attach setup on the front which lets it use skid steer attachments.
I have a L 48 and I have all that you mentioned above. You are comparing an L 3400 series to the 48 and they aren't in the same league. I have the skid steer quick attach, third valve for front end attachmetns, quick change hoe buckets. same laoder controls. spin around seat,,,If I was to have any complaint, it would be middle range could use another mile per hour or so. I have used this 48 in a lot of backfill projects and fine grading, so I don't understand where you are getting this from
Good luck with your purchase Stroker, keep us posted on how it works out for you.
The L48 does not have full size backhoe loader controls, the kind that sits right next to the seat. I went to Kubota's website and looked at the picture, that big stick pointing back toward the operator is the loader control. They have no feeling whatsoever and it's difficult to feather the bucket. I guess I didn't realize that the skid steer plate and 3rd valve up front was optional equipment, my bad. As far as the 3400 series not being in the same league, it's still the same basic principle. There's maybe 14 horspower difference but other than that the machine as a whole is going to operate relatively the same. As far as speed goes, put a skid steer with a competant operator side by side with the L48 and see who gets more done, faster. It's not an arguing point on which machine to buy, but speed is definately a skid steer's strong point. Tractors are just too slow IMO.
For one, you are talking about excavator pilot controls and no compact tractor has this to my knowledge. I can't understand why you have no feel with loader controls on a 48 because your favorite JD110 has the identical set up,. But, I'm not going to argue the point. The 3400 and the L 48 are not basically the same. The 3400 has one impliment pump and at best about 7.8 GPM, and it has the power steering pump. at about 3.4 or so.. It is a compact tractor.. The L 48 has three pumps and does 26 GPM with one dedicated to hoe swing... It has more meat in the hoe/FEL system alone than the whole of a 3400. I will agree a skid steer , (speed wise) is much faster..
he's talking about the loader control...not backhoe. I personally didn't like the way it was, either...but the L39 is better & i would assume the new series of L48's will be changed. One thing i like about a tractor/loader is when loading trucks with any kind of debris/dusty material, you're not as close to the bucket, so you're not getting some of it on you(we all don't have AC cabs on our skids)
Stroker, I for one hope that your decision is a good one because I have a very similar setup! (IHC 4700 and a new Kubota L39) I when through all the arguments back and forth too and the one thing that I found out was this: There are many people who love their skidsteers and many who love their compact TLB's and each one is convinced that the other guy is wrong! sure SSL's are cheaper - until you also buy the backhoe attachment that you get with the TLB. sure TLB's are good at lots of things too - until it gets really muddy and you need a CTL. Neither will dig as well as a compact excavator. .. The only solution is to buy one of everything! :bouncegri And for the record - around here we have a bunch of Kubota and JD CTLB's in the rental yards and on the jobsites so somebody does want them, and of course there are also TONs of SSL's too. As for fine grading - really? - fine grading with any bucketloader sucks (IMHO). If you really want to fine grade, bring a small dozer. The long and short of the whole thing is to chose what you think will work best in YOUR situation, then be happy with your new equipment. Oh, and as I read somwhere "Never argue with a true believer" I think that goes as well for equipment as it does for religion! Work safe and good profits to everybody!
Isn't that the truth. Sometimes, I could use two of everything. No one machine will do everything. Buy what you can run the best and do the most with and rent something else when you need it.
Lamarbur, I was talking about the loader control, not the backhoe controls. Yeah I realize it's still a 2 stick control on the backhoe, but the 1110 has an actual loader control lever, right next to the seat just like it's big brother the 310G. The thing I can't stand with our tractor, GPM's and all that technical stuff aside, is that the operator sits so far from the bucket it's tough to see what you're working on! I guess maybe it's practice, but we've had our tractor for almost a year and a half and I still can't grade with it very well. I like to see the bucket lip personally, with a fullsize backhoe it's not too bad because they put the level indicator in the right side of the boom, but with these small tractors it's really tough! Needless to say if you're not going to be doing alot of fine grading, you'll probably be okay with a tractor. I just can't get over the cost of a TLB, it's twice that of a skid steer.
This explains why we disagree on this subject. It comes down to what each of us is used to operating. I have never had to do any type of fine grading with a bucket machine where I could see the lip of the bucket. All of my experience is with large equipment. Im used to sitting on a job site spreading dirt or stone with a 544 or 644 JD rubber tire loader or rough grading with a Cat 953 track loader. None of which you can even come close to seeing the lip of the bucket. Your butt for lack of a better term to describe the feeling does all the seeing for you. The L48 to the best of my knowledge has an auto level for the front bucket already.
You ALL are right in the various responses.. It comes down to what we are use to running., I know for me, a JD 710 hoe and JD 544 loader, I must have 10,000 hours in over a 30 plus year span. The L 48, for me, is easy. None of which I could see the bucket lip either,, I suppose it comes down to what we are comfortable in what we are operating. Funny, no one has ever seen me post about skid steers or any knowledge of them.. I've never been in one..