Has anyone operated, owned or just goofed off with a CAT Aggregate Autodig? Here's the link http://safety.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=133361&x=7&id=496053 CRAZY STUFF MAN! I don't know what to think...the tech geek in me loves it. The mechanic in me says it looks like a PITA if it fouls up. :bash My operator side is still out on this one...:beatsme Will we have operators with no "seat-of-the-pants" feel left and "real" machine control after a few generations when this technology becomes widespread? Or will we become even more advanced in our trade? Look at the way cranes have evolved with load computers and whatnot. Could be this a blessing in disguise? Or is this the bucket-leveler's even more evil younger brother? Your thoughts, please.
We had a field follow 980G II a few years back. I was sick and tired of the changes they kept making to that loader. The hydraulic pump and lines were re-designed and changed 3 times before they finally got it working right. But, it did have the autodig feature, and we had the loader 2 months before they enabled it. It worked good, and got consistant bucket weights while loading material. As far as hard to work on, its not bad. As long as the sensors are working properly, it gave no problems. The operator really did not care if he used it or not, because operating the 2 little levers require minimal effort.
I saw this kind of project in Komatsu excavators in the early nineties. The machine could be set up to learn an operation plus it had some presets. I would automatically tamp down loose soil with three settings and some other stuff that I don't recall. The reason I don't recall it is because no one ever wanted to use those functions. The auto dig as described looked like it would be a good thing in stock pile work but I can't see any advantage in mining. You get hung up on a big rock and you have to take control anyway. As far as fixing the stuff all you can do in the Cat loader cab is pull fault codes. You have to have the connector cable, a computer and the programming to find and fix anything. That was another problem with the Komatsu electronic excavators. Komatsu would not release any information on the system. When something failed it was just tough luck. Hopefully some state will require OBD in machines in the future but I won't hold my breath.
Actually on the CAT wheel loaders in the G series, short of "Flashing the ECM" with a totally new file, all you really needed was that small "Clicker Box" to pull codes, clear faults, and calibrate the hydraulics and transmission. You could even do it with a jumper wire in the connector where the clicker box plugged in. Unless I had to use the laptop, I always used the box, less cords, smaller and quicker.
tec can be a double edged sword
wouldn't want that. Not sure if it was how he had it set up, but half the buckets wasn't even full
How long did you run it to say that? Was it calibrated to work in the material type you were in? It seems to me that just like any other automated process, They call it "GIGO", Garbage in, Garbage out. It is only going to work as good as the user input. I have not ran one myself, but I would like to give it a try. I think it would help most loader operators if it had variable settings, such as loose stockpile, sand and gravel, and hard digging at a minimum for different selections. Doing utility work I think it would be all but useless, but for production loading, if you can tune it to the material, you could make an average loader man look really good, if it works.
you missed what I said. I was talking about in the video. Never had the chance personally to run one. It may be alright after you get used to the settings EDIT: hahaha, don't I feel like an idiot. Missed the part that says "partial bucket filling" oh my
I wrote the comment above, then went to the video link and watched it later. I thought it worked pretty well. 9 different factory settings, and one you can program to your own style. If I worked in a quarry all day, I might even like it.
I think that anything that requires less wear and tear on me is a plus. Even with low effort controls, a long day in a busy quarry can still make your control hand and arm tired. So if autodig can make it easier I think I might like it.
Could be pretty usefull, especially if you have a fill in loader hand in an unfamiliar enviroment. Just have your personal setting programmed and have them run it as such. Would make half the job easier.
what bothers me about this feature is that if it levels the operator playing field, and the technology catches on, operator wages will nosedive. then you will end up with an unfair situation whereby a skilled operator is busting his hump on an older machine without the technology to match the numbers of the pimple-faced moron running the automated machine and making the same bargain-basement wage. i know if i invested in a machine with this technology i would not want to be paying premium wages to an operator if any old goofball can run it.
I don't care how much technology you put in a machine, it is still no match for skill and experience. I recall about 10 years ago on a large site where I was a subcontractor, and the general contractor had the above mentioned pimple faced kids with no experience running brand new rental iron. My backup loader was a 87A serial 988 and the kid would laugh at me while loading trucks out of my pile with his brand new 220 Volvo. We each had about a 6 yard bucket, but he had all the comforts, and fully automatic everything, while would eat dust and heat and work it all by skill. One day while he was making fun of me, and really running down my "junk" old loader, I decided to shut him up, so I challenged him to a contest loading trucks. He figured with the speed of the new machine it was a cinch, but when I loaded 4 trucks for his 3 consistently for about an hour, he went away with his tail between his legs. Just shows if you are really skilled, you do not need to bust your hump to outwork the inexperienced guy. Work smarter, not harder. By the way, I out loaded the kid without stressing my old machine, but by working an optimum loader cycle, spotting trucks properly, heaping my bucket everytime without wasting time in the pile doing it, and working the pile to always have an easy spot to dig. The kid new none of these things, because his boss just gave him the loader and told him to load. No training at what is productive and what is a waste of time.
What Jerry said, you cant beat skill and experience!
That is the truth... Skill and expierence are things that cant really be tought, they are learned or earned. I dont let anybody run my loader here at the plant, cause not many know how to do the job correctly and effiecently. Its not like the dirt work these guys are used to and they dont get that.
I don't think it looks to bad, but it won't make anyone a better operator or work in anything but quarry environments. Just take away some of the repetitive work out of it and give you some more time to observe possible dangers around you.
Yea, a continuous loading operation of a loose stock pile would be the only advantage it could bring. Until you get a rookie who has no clue what its for and goes to playing with the switches in it. I would like to see the look of a kids face when he hits the wrong series of switches and the bucket starts to auto-dig...
And yet he was still getting 3 to your 4? I would say that pretty darn good for a first timer "pimple faced kid". Be interesteing to see how many he gets when he has as many years as you do. Don't mean any disrespect just remember we all have to start somewhere
I had this auto dig feature on the Komatsu WA500-6 I ran last year. The computer is definitely not as smart as a competent operator. I do quarry work and I quite disliked the feature so I always kept it off.
I am willing to bet the kid was running his loader as hard and fast as he could too. Quite likely hydraulics were faster to respond and moved quicker as well... I would be more curious what the numbers would be had the loaders been identical. I have a rookie loader hand here at my plant. I ride his ass everyday constantly reminding him not to mess up and standing there watching him. Just to make him nervous. He has handled it rather well honestly, he has made mistakes, he isn't perfect but like you said we all start somewhere. He doesn't know it yet, but come monday he is on his own. I will no longer be watching him or "hovering" everything he does will be directed back at him. I think he has earned him self some respect. So i have given a small piece of rope, now if he hangs him self or not, well thats in his hands. Monday will make him or break him.
I have a few guys that have done to me what you describe you do to your rookie on the loader and to be honest i appreciate my guys cause even though they were pretty hard on me. They also taught me almost everything i know (the rest i've learned here) and when you are just starting out it helps so much to have someone you can ask when your not sure. So as far as riding rookies, ride away :notworthy I'm just saying not all rookies are stupid, some of us care about the work
I do remember that we all start out green. To clarify, he had been running this loader for about 5 or 6 months at the time, and felt quite cocky with "his" ride. Also read the part about him running a new 1999 model 220 Volvo, which is no slouch of a machine, and damned fast, while I was on a 1972 Cat 988, which is certainly stronger in the grunt department, but lacking by a great deal when it comes to speed. I try to teach young operators to first practice doing it right. Do not try running fast, because you don't know how. Learn to be smooth and effecient, then pick up speed. If you are smooth, the speed will come, but if you can't learn to be smooth, then any speed will just beat up you and the machine, without any more production.
That sounds like good advise to me. and like i said i didn't mean any disrespect i've just worked with a couple guys who instead of teaching while trying to make my life miserable they just tried to make life miserable
Life is hard enough already without some a hole going out of his way to make it worse. I was hard on the kid in my example, because he was cocky based on his new machine, but after he was spanked, then I tried to teach him, even though he did not work for me. He turned out OK, but from his attitude at first, he would not have made many friends. I do not mind passing on what I know. I know it makes my life easier if those around me get better at what they do.
Yes sir well said
There is no shame in bein green, there is shame in stayin green. Worse is havin the touch & smarts to be one of the great ones but only doin enuff to get by. IMHO:drinkup Bob aka ZZ
I dont ride his ass to be a ****, i do it so he can get accustomed to the stresses of the job, its a big difference when the plant is running full speed and you have the top 3 guys in the company parked, sitting and watching your every move. I decided late last week that today is the last of me riding him and watching him like a hawk, he now has to either prove he can do the job, or figure out for him self that he cant. But its all up to him now, what he does with the opportuninty is his choice. Im not saying i wont answer his questions or anything, or if i see something blatantly wrong i will give him pointers. But for the most part he is on his own today.
Well said