I started talking about my JLG 40F in 3 other forums. I needed to post at least 3 times before I was allowed to post my own thread. Sorry for the inconvenience. Here are the issues. First JLG gives no support on the E or the F series. If you go to there Manual’s down load area they are not even listed. They do list some parts though. As for service they have not returned 1 of my phone calls. I did receive an email reply from them. It was a link to there dealer and service people. All of the places that were around me were rental places and only did in-house repairs on their own equipment. One place in VT said they would look at it but only when they had time. I asked him if he could tell me the hydraulic cable lengths from the boom back, as well as the size and type of hose needed. I also asked him about the cable length. He told me he had to look it up, and would give me a call back. He didn’t call me back. I know people are busy. Here are my problems. This 40F has been patched so many times. The wiring harness from the engine compartment half way up is original. It was then spliced with a similar type of cable (not a bad job). After that it was spliced with some 20 awg aluminum cable, then back to copper. Inside the panel half of it was bell wire. Insane! The hydraulic lines look to be original. Deep cracks etc. No leaks though. No brakes (maybe only needs pads) Only reverse. (If I move the joystick to forward it still goes in reverse.) I rebuilt the 3 joysticks. One of them had circuit board damage that I by passed. I switched them around to positions that I knew worked well and they all seem to work fine. Here’s what I am looking for. Wiring diagram Hydraulic Diagram What type of hydraulic line is needed and what manufacture do you think is best. What is the correct inside diameter of the hoses in the boom? What type of connectors do you think are best? Should the wiring and hydraulic lines be lightly tye-wraped some how? What is the thinnest hydraulic oil that can be used, and what brand do you recommend? Anything related to lubing. I see the zert fittings but what about the turret, and the booms? Please feel free to jump in. Any advice will be more than welcome. So many questions so little time. Thanks to all who had the patients to read through all of this. Thanks again OD1 [email protected]
Hey od1, good to see you started a thread about your machine. Whew, talk about a ton of questions! This is going to take some time to noodle through. I'll start working on some of this and post back. And yes, JLG industries works through a dealer network. They don't provide support from a factory connection. I know your in Canada and it would be better if you could work with someone in your area/country, but since your getting crappy support so far, call these folks. I've been dealing with this company when it was a small family owned business called Aerial Service and Parts (ASAP). They were bought out by Best Line Equipment out of State College PA, but they retained some of the old ASAP employees. They are located in Shippensburg PA, not far from JLG Industries. http://www.bestlineinc.com/location_shippensburg.aspx Phone number is 888-321-3217. Talk to Eric. If he's not available, talk to Jeremy. Eric has been doing parts on JLG machines for years, he knows these machines. If he doesn't help you out I'll call the "damn yankee" and give him a southern tongue lashin'.
Ahh here's the thing. Yes I'm in Canada but I live a mile from the border. It's very remote here. It's easyer for me to get service (and cheaper), for parts etc. if I deal on the US side. I'm originally from Philly., PA., and lived in State Collage for awhile back in the 60's. I'll give them a try for sure.
Give 'em a try...I've been ordering parts from Eric for years. Tell him Paul from ATCO Equipment told you to call. First of all, you asked in an earlier post in a different thread about the boom having a safety device on it. Yes, all critical cylinders on aerial lifts have holding valves that prevent a catastrophic failure that would drop the boom or the basket. I can't remember for sure on the F series, but most JLG's also have manual descent valves on the telescope and lift cylinders. For the boom lift, this would be a small diameter hose coming from the lift cylinder to the descent valves. Make sure this hose is in good condition. If the hose failed, the boom would drop, but at a controlled descent because it goes through a velocity fuse to control speed. But it's best not to let this hose fail if your machine is equipped with manual descent valves. Question about wiring. You mentioned the wiring harness/cable was original coming out of the lower control box, then it gets spliced. What about at the upper control box, is it original harness/cable going into control box? The brakes, remove those cover panels on the axle frames. You'll see the drive motors and brake assemblies. I just can't remember enough about the brakes to give you advice. I'm thinking they used the Ausco brakes, can't remember. But seems I remember they weren't that hard to service. Only reverse, LoL, Bertea valves (pronounced burr ta uh)! These are very smooth operating valve systems...but they are quirky as well, and operate very different from all other electric/hyd valves. Now, we could have a problem with patched wiring causing a problem with this one, so it's going to be hard to troubleshoot this one for sure. But assuming it's not a problem caused by faulty cable wiring, I assume you switched drive PQ controller with a controller of a funtion that is working properly and still have a problem with drive. If so, the problem is at the Bertea valve section for drive. It's a common problem with these machines. You either have a failed servo coil at the valve, or (and I've done this tons of times) disassemble components of drive valve, and yes, with it still mounted on machine. It's been years since I did this and can't remember what to tell you to disassemble, but I used to remove the guts of the suspect valve section, clean all parts with starting fluid, re-assemble, and voila, everythings happy. I have no idea what causes this, I only know it happens. Just be carefull taking it apart...I can't remember what's invloved and what's in there. Pay close attention to the components as you disassemble them. As for the oil, maybe someone here could tell you what the thinnest hyd oil is. Or, contact an oil supplier and ask them. I only know that the Bertea valves don't like heavy viscosity hyd oil, therefore, the thinner the oil (in Canadian weather) the better.
Oh yeah, if you need toggle switches or need to get those PQ controllers repaired, contact Hindley Electronics in Ohio. They can fix you up for less money than OEM controllers and switches. http://www.hindleyelectronics.com/index_option.htm
check out these guys. http://www.webequipment.com/ they supply us with all the parts we need. service dept is top notch. pretty sure they'll ship to you since they sent a few forklifts to panama.
Yep, Web Equipment is a good company to work with as well.
Thanks for the info. I just emailed each of them asking about wiring diagrams, and hydraulic line and connectors. Hopefully one or both will come through. Right now I’m stuck and the weather will start changing fast here. I have work on this outside. I think I should have called this forum “Beating a Dead Horse”
Yep, sounds like you need to replace the cables. I can't remember for sure on the 40F, but most JLG booms have 3 cables going to upper controls. The 16 gauge multi conductor cable, this is for the controls. Then the 12 gauge 4 conductor for power supply and foot switch. And the 12/3 for the 110 volt plug at the platform (if you choose to have one). And the proper cable is one made for constant flexing, like robotics or pendant cable. Standard rubber jacket cable, like SO or SJ spec, would work for a short time, but would fail long before proper cable because they aren't designed for constant flexing. And copper cable is getting spendy nowdays, but the last few machines I've done cable on, I purchased the cable from JLG. Believe it or not, their price was competitive with other sources. I guess JLG buys miles of the stuff to build their new machines so they probably get a good price when buying the cable.
I'm in the communications trade. I use miles of cable. If you ever need cable check with me first. The cable I'm using on the 40F is OLFLEX AUTO-116 awg Hi-Flex 600 volt ,25 numbered conductor. 6 bucks a foot. It's rated T1 which is the rating for tray usages. I can also get SAB cable Part # 07761625 also 16 awg 25 numbered T1. It's a little niecer and smaller in dia. 9 bucks a foot. SAB sells it for 19 bucks a foot.
I have 2 businesses here. We supply logs to mills both hard wood and soft wood. We market logs for log homes as well. We supply pulp wood to. The 40F is used for both of the businesses. The other is Satellite communications. This is our 27th year in that. The wood thing has been going on since 1977. We're right on the 45 parallel where NH, VT, and Quebec meet. The town I live near in VT has more moose than people.
Cool. I see it's a TC spec. Tray Cable will work fine, but it's not as good as pendant type cable, but it sounds like you get it at such a good price that it's no great expense to change it. I think the Olflex has red or blue conductors with numbers, where the JLG cable is color coded. Your going to have to transpose from the JLG color codes - to numbered wires - then back color code to match the proper connections at upper and lower boxes, but you probably already considered that, eh? Any time I have to transpose from color to numbers, I always map it out on paper for each conductor, i.e., red (wire) = #101 (wire), black = #102, and so on. By doing this on paper first, you minimize mistakes when you begin the project. Also, you have a record of which # wire goes to what when you perform work on the machine in the future.
The wire braid on both are really fine. The cover's on both are really good as well. I'd map it out first for sure. Hopefully I'll find a diagram soon. Part of the original cable that came with the lift is still on it. These cables are an improvement over the originals for sure. The 110 volt cable is a good idea. I think I'll run some up there as well. Very good.
I agree, about the cables, I think you'll be OK. The diagrams on these machines are getting hard to come by. They are way before we started putting diagrams on computers, we're talking diagrams in paper manuals here. I'm going to contact two sources tomorrow and see if I can get lucky and come up with a manual for the old 40. Can't promise anything...but it's worth a shot.
Thanks, My fingers are crossed. Here's a new problem; I started up the lift (kicked over on the first try) and let it warm up. I took it up to maybe half height; the motor switched its self from full throttle to half throttle. The boom went up another couple feet and left me hanging. I tried to spin it around nothing. All I could do is tilt and turn the wheels. My son let me down by opening the 3 valves. But while I was up there I realized that the hydraulic lines run under there as well. My plan was to fully extend the booms and pull out the lines but I see once I start I won’t be able to get to some of the lines that way. Can anyone tell me how to do this on a step by step basses?
I think I remember the 40F had the engine throttle wiring going through a mercury switch at the base of the main boom near the boom pivot pin. When the boom was raised above a certain elevation, the mercury switch would break the circuit for throttle and engine would go to idle. As for the lines as you called them; are you replacing cables or hoses, or both?
Very interesting about the mercury switch. I wondered how that worked. It always worked like that but leaving me hanging is a new one. I want to change both hydraulic and electrical lines. I’m going to also add a 110 line. There must be an order to it or a way it all could be done at the same time without repositioning the machine. I’m not sure. Does it have to be done in stages? If so what about hydraulic fluid loss, etc.
The logic for the mercury switch was that JLG didn't want the engine in a high speed mode when the boom is elevated. They wanted things to work a little slower (safer) with the boom in the air. If your replacing both the hoses and cables, that's not too bad. Your going to need some plugs/caps for the hoses you take loose so you don't make a big mess. It's been years in my memory, but I'm thinking they are probably JIC flare fittings. Maybe #4 or #6. You need to have enough plugs/caps for each hose connection you take loose. The only tricky part is getting things through the carrier tube and power track (that's that big chain looking thing) above the upper boom. First thing, position the boom over the side of the main frame, fully extend the boom with basket just off of ground. Disconnect negative battery cable. Now your ready to disconnect. Start up at basket. Take a pair of cutters and cut the control cable and power cable about a foot outside where they go into the upper control box. Disconnect the hyd hoses. You should have 2 for basket rotate and 2 for basket level. Select a hose fitting to disconnect, let's say you choose the leveling cylinder, use a center punch and put a single mark on the nut of a hose fitting and a single mark on the fitting it's connected to. On the other hose for the leveling cylinder, put 2 punch marks. At the basket rotate motor, 3 punch marks on one hose and fitting, and 4 marks on the other. Your now ready to disconnect and plug/cap hoses and fittings. Your now ready to pull cable and hoses, but you need a good length of strong braided Nylon rope about 3/16" or 1/4" in diameter, put a single knot in the end of the rope. Place the rope alongside the end of one of the hyd hoses, 8 - 10" up the side of the hose, and strap the rope to the hose using electrical tape right up to the knot. Go back where the bend is in the power track and pull the cables and hoses out. The rope is now in place to pull new hoses and cables back through carrier tube. Pull hoses/cables out where power track is secured to main boom. Remove cover on side of main boom and remove hoses/cables. Cut the cables about a foot from their terminations at lower station just as you did at upper controls, pull the cables out. Now all you have left are the hoses to disconnect. Find the hose fitting you marked with a single punch mark, follow that hose to the fitting on the other end of that hose and put a single mark on that hose fitting and connection fitting. Do the same with the other 3 hoses. Your now ready to disconnect, plug, and cap, the hoses. Now you can take hoses to a hose shop and have proper replacements made, and you can measure your cable to get an idea of the cable length you need. Your hoses may be different lengths, so have the hose shop note and mark each hose they make with the appropriate matching punch mark of the old hose as they made them from. On re-install, start from the basket. Secure the rope to a hose. Secure the remaining hoses and cables to it. Have a helper slowly pull the bundle through the carrier tube while you feed the bundle from the basket end. Once the bundle comes out, pull entire lenth of cable and hoses. Connect hoses to fittings that match punch marks. Pull hoses fore or aft for proper sag/slack at platform before going into carrier tube. Now to set the cables. Remove the cord grips from that tail of cable you cut at the control box. Strip the rubber jacket from cable. Pull the strands of wire back through the cord grip fitting and let them hang out of the control box. Now you can strip the jacket of the new cable and set the cord grip on the new cable with enough stripped jacket to allow connections inside the terminal box. Once you get the cord grips set on the cables and adjust the proper sag/slack of the cables (as with the hoses), take a tie strap and secure hose/cable bundle so it wont' move. Pull hoses/cable taught where they come out of the power track. Now you can finish installing hoses and cable through power track and down the side of the boom. I think you pretty much have the idea for the rest of it. Now your ready for wiring connections, and it's where it may get messy as you described quite a butcher job on the wiring. Ordinarily, the proper color coded wire is going to its proper terminal. Take the lower control box. Let's say the black wire of the power cable (12/4 cable) goes to terminal #1 in the lower box. You simply remove the old black wire, and cut/install the new black wire, working your way through each colored wire. It's going to get a little more interesting with the Olflex cable, being it's the same color wire with numbers on the wires strands. This is where your going to have to make a transpose list from colors to numbers. Well, that's pretty much it. That should keep you busy for a little while.
Man that was perfect. I think I have it. I'm going to print this out. Someone got back to me from Best Line Equipment. They needed some more info on the machine serial # valves, etc. If it stops poring out I’ll be able to get that info. to them today. Thanks so much for your help so far. I really mean that. Talk with you soon.
This is what Web Equipment said, I am sorry but JLG no longer supports many parts for the 40F. The wiring diagram is no longer available as are the hoses. The parts book does not specify length or fittings. Your best bet would be to have them made locally. Thank you, Stacy Barlow WEB Equipment, Inc.
I just sent 7 pictures and the serial number over to Dewayne. I mentioned your name. He sounded like he wants to help.
I'd get the hoses done locally at a hose shop as well. You're going to have to obtain the plugs and caps necessary for removal of hoses. It's possible that a number of parts for these machines are becoming obsolete, they are old machines. I usually talk to Eric or Jeremy at Best Line when I'm ordering parts. If they are able to provide you with some info, you be sure and order a few parts from them...you know, leaves a good taste in their mouth for them helping you.
For sure. I'm in the service related business as well. I have some clients that just pick my brain and I can tell you in a heart beat who they are. I wouldn’t want to be on that list.
Now wait a minute, you sent someone else 7 pictures...but didn't send us no pictures??? :nono
The JLG 40F The pictures of the engine compartment will follow.
Wow, that's a nice looking 40F. I haven't seen one of those things in years. Thanks for the memories.
I just have to extend my gratitude to ATCO,for all of the help and assistance that he renders here, it's people like him ( and the many others who contribute ), that make this forum one of the best places on the net. People helping each other every day, with no expectations of anything in return, I salute you all! Thanks again, ZZ
great help for me too... thanks
I now have the electrical diagram for the 40F 3 pages. I also will post the joysticks that were used on these machines. The quality of the wording is poor on 2 of the 4 sheets. If anyone can fill in the blanks that would be appreciated.
I here ya od1. Those diagrams are OLD. They've never been updated to more modern digital files like PDF. And it's been years since I've worked on one of these things, but we'll try to wiggle through it best we can.
Joysticks Joysticks
Wiring JLG 40F Bertea Wiring diagram for Bertea valves, Page1
Wiring JLG 40F Bertea Wiring diagram for Bertea valves, Page2
Wiring JLG 40F Bertea Wiring diagram for Bertea valves, Page3
JLG 40F Bertea valve JLG 40F Bertea valve
JLG 40F Bang Bang valves These valves are the bang bang valves. The top is your dump valve and the lower two are steer and telescope.
Man, those are better diagrams than what I have! Can you e-mail me those diagrams?
If you are using a PC try this. Right click on the picture and select "Save Picture As". Use the name provided or change it. Then save it as a JPEG file. Change the destination to "Desk Top”. I uploaded it actual size. From your desk top click to open the JPEG image. You will be able to make the diagram any size after that. I increased it to 150 percent and picked out a few things. Let me know if it worked for you. If you have any problems PM me.
Yep, I tried that. When I enlarge it things get unreadable. That's why I was wondering if you had clean copies that you could email. Emailing files give better resolution. I've got 40F schematics on my computer at work, but, they're old images, and when my work computer got updated somehow it corrupted the files so I can't change, copy, or send them. You have some clean copies there. Who provided them?
No problem. I'll send them now. Where do you want them sent? I'm on dial-up so it'll take a few minutes.
Simply click on my username at one of my posts. That will give you a link to my email.
I just received your reply. I already sent them to you at work. I hope that's OK. It takes 12 minutes per page on dial-up. My server redirects my mail through another server. Sometimes this can make trouble on the other end. If you do not see the 4 emails check your deleted file or your spam file. Some anti-virus programs trash my emails. The joystick diagram came from a dealer that I called last year. I don't remember his name. The other 3 came from Dewayne. He was a big help. He first faxed them to me. They were imposible to read. Then he emailed them to me in an unknown format. I printed them out and then scanned them as a JPEG and uploaded them to this site.
Yeah, that's cool. Having some clean schematics of a, what, 30 year old machine! I'll check my mail at work tomorrow.
I'm glad the pictures made it. The 3 wiring pictures were from , your contact. They gave me great advice as well. I'll call them first if I need parts. Thanks for the contact. If you can figure out what all of the words are on those diagrams I can then make type them out in Excel or Publisher and replace all of the corrupted stuff. Then I'll rescan it and save it in a format that everyone could use, and repost it here and maybe on another forum. It would be a great help to all. The color chart is also imposable to make out. I could make a number chart to go with it for those who have cable that is numbered (like I do). Let me know what you think. Dewayne over at Best Line Equipment said it's hard to find parts for the bertea pump, and that if it F's up I'll probably have to change the whole pump. Bummer. Big $$
LoL...Dewaye is probably right, the parts for the Bertea 40F are getting rare. These are old machines. I can't recall for sure, but I don't think the F is the first series of manlifts that John L. Grove produced, but I think I'm safe in saying the F is one of the early models of the JLG company. It's a challenge, but, maybe with a little effort, we can keep one more F alive...yours.
Hi, I just stumbled across this site, saw this thread, and registered. JLG 40F and 60F were my specialty "back in the day". I kept all the factory diagrams & info.......and a lot of spare parts.....even though the compny I work got rid of the last "F" probably 15 years ago. I can help. Oh and ah.......:canada:
Welcome to the forum OFF. :usa
Man that would be great. Everything is on hold here until I can figure out the wiring diagram. I posted them, but all of the writing is impossible to read. I need to know the color chart as well. If you recognize anything written on the let me know. I’ll retype it all in Excel and redo the diagrams then repost them. That way when someone enlarges them they will still be able to read them. Let me know what you think. OD1
Yes sir od1, wouldn't that be sweet if OFF had some clean drawings. I can see the lower control box fine, but the terminal connections for the 16/24 cable going from platform to lower master panel is unreadable. I know the first four terminals are black, white, red, and green, but I know that because that's the way JLG's have been for years. If we can get some clean drawings, maybe we can make some progress. JLG drawings can be tricky to read, if you have any questions be sure and ask, we'll walk you through it.
Thanks Atcoequip Everything is at a full stop for now. I don't want to start tearing it apart until this is worked out. I can't trust the wiring that is there do to the creative patching that was done over the years. I wish JLG would step in here. They don't return phone calls. I've left voice messages, but they don't return my calls. Maybe someone out there has some clout with them?
Morning guys Yeah, I've got all the schematics on 17 x 22 paper. I could fax what you need, but it would have to be in 4 sections I guess. We're talking a 40F with racine proportionals, racine bang-bangs, and PQ controllers, right?
I've got a section of JLG 16/30 cable too
Oops, the pictures in the thread didn't open for me till now. I see you've got Bertea valves. I don't have a specific schematic for Bertea. I do have clear ground control & main control box diagrams, the wire colour codes and numbering should be the same. On your hydraulic oil question, in the dark ages we used HVI22 hydraulic oil cut with 50% kerosene in the winter time on these machines. That was the only way they would operate at below -30. Even then they had to be run on ground control for an hour to warm up the oil enough for the valves to work. Later on, we discovered Amsoil synthetic ATF and used it with great succses. These days they are making HVI15 hyd oil which is a lot better than 22 was. We use a lot of synthetic 0W30 in hydraulics now. Start & go at -40, no problems. According to the factory "bill of material" sheets for the 40F Racine, they used 15ft of 16/3 6ft of 16/12 64ft of 16/24 64ft of 12/4 all of it SDN ITT type cable. Hope that helps. If you've got PQ controllers, I have 3 new cards and lots of assorted used parts for them.
No, don't fax them. The resolution of fax machines make schematics look like the one's we have. It's better if you scan them and save them on your computer, then you can save it as a PDF file, and e-mail them. Makes much better schematics.
I'll give that a try in the morning :cool2 I'm with you, I really miss those old machines. Loved working on them. I'll take 40F over a Z60/80 anyday.
LoL OFF, the 40F with the Bertea valves were a quirky little cuss. Aside from that, they were built like an anvil. It's been years ago, but I can remember a Bertea acting goofy, like trying to drive when your not operating the joystick. It seems I remember you disassemble the pilot components of the valve, clean everything with a spray solvent, put it back together, and now it works perfect. Those valves were very sensitive to even the smallest grain of debris. Everything else on the machine was pretty simple and straightforward to work on. I've always liked the JLG machines myself. Been through the factory in McConnellsburg and went through their certification training. That factory is a cool operation. Right now I'm working on a 110HX in our shop. Now that's a cool machine. A 40,000 lb machine that will put you 110 feet in the air.
Wow that’s amazing news. Is there anyway they could be copied at that size and mailed? I’ll be glad to pay for them, and something for your trouble as well. Faxes don’t seem to work well. Let me know what you think? The controls are the Bertea type (lower left in the diagram) .
Slow down there od1, OFF said he had schematics for the 40 with Racine valves. They are a little different. Although, I do agree with him, they both use the 16/24 cable and the terminal connections will probably be the same. I'm interested to look at them as well. I don't think it's necessary for him to mail them. If he has a good scanner, he can scan them and save them on his computer, then e-mail the copies. The e-mail copies are generally good if they came from a good scan. And if they are saved as a PDF, it's easy to rotate the copies for viewing as well as printing the copies.
Man that was perfect except I was told the cable run could be either 65 feet or 80 feet depending what valves were on there. I ordered 80 feet to be safe. The oil tips were really needed. It takes 45 minutes for the controls on the Bertea side to function when the temp. drops below -10. At -20 it’s over an hour.
I heard that the only difference was the cable lenth. The Racine used a shorter lenth for the 16 awg X 24.
I have a question about the disassembly of the pilot components of the valves. Are there any parts that are under pressure or sprung when I open it? I've taken valve assemblies apart before and had them shoot out at me and left me guessing which way they go back together.
They may be the same. I'm only saying there's a difference between Racine and Bertea valves. But, as OFF said in post #53, and as I've said, I think the terminal connections are the same for the 16/24 cable between the two valve setups. I just can't say that for certain.
Our 40F's were all Racine porps but I can't see there being a difference in cable length. Main panel is in the same position on the machine, right? That's where the boom wiring terminates. :beatsme I found another 40F bill of material that called for an even shorter cable but I discounted it. Better to error long than error short
I contacted a place a while back who was offering a wiring harness for the 40F. They told me there were two lengths. It’s either 65 feet or 80 feet, depending on the valves used. I asked her if I could email her a picture of the valves and maybe someone there could tell me. She said that know one there would know and suggested I go for the longer length to be safe, but @ 16.00 per foot that extra 15 feet is 140.00. Luckily I found some cable for 10.00 less. It seems that the more time I spend working on this thing the easer it all starts to look. No computer, it’s all just hardwired. If I could just get the boom rewired and re lined, I’d then know where I’d stand with this thing. Every time I start it up it’s got another new problem. The latest is it only moves in reverse. I switched controllers and it still does the same thing. Maybe it’s a broken wire or ground who knows? There are so many exposed wires under there. I thought if I start with the electrical which I know is a mess maybe it’ll end there. If not I’d know where to go next. A kind of reverse engineering. The great thing about this unit is its simplicity, and it’s built to last another 30 yrs. The more you two guys talk the more I see and hear. It’s pretty cool. I think it’s an excellent way to learn. I really appreciate your input.
odd1, keep things simple about your cable length. Just remove your old cable using the procedure I mentioned in post #18. Yes, your machine will be down until cable is replaced, but it sounds like your machine is not trustworthy to run right now anyway. Your problem can be in the servo coil of the Bertea valve section, but you can't say for sure until you get good proper wiring between platform and lower components. Good wiring is very important with these valves.
Very busy day at work today guys, never even got near the printer to check out scanning in those schematics od1, here's that tracked machine you mentioned http://www.machineryjunction.com/user_images/91201317675388207.jpg
That’s good advice for sure. I’m going to take it. The reason that I want to know all of the lengths, etc. is so while I’m waiting, I can locate a good deal on the hose. When I start the teardown all I’ll have to do is lay out the hose next to the old one and cut it for the best fit. I thought I’d label it and cut off the old connection and tape it to the new hose. I’d then bring it to a local hose place near me and have them press on the new ends. Someone told me that the ends of the threads might be tapered and if so stay away from them. They have a tendency to leak. Is this true? Does that make sense? The wiring is the weakest link on this 40F for sure. I hear you.
Hey Off That's it. That's the same picture I saw. Glad you found it. I thought it steered by locking up the brakes on one side at a time. I thought that because when I was a kid I had an old VW and I rigged the emergency brake with 2 handles. I could literally turn it on a dime.
Not sure what that means. If I remember, the 40F used mostly pipe thread fittings. Don't know of many variations of pipe thread. JLG started using JIC fittings on later models, but to change your fittings over to JIC would be costly.
Locking a brake would do the trick alright. To me, that machine looks like a 50F, not a 40. What a jem huh? And they only want $14K for it :laugh
Hi again ATCO I get a news letter from this guy Brendan Casey. Author of 'Insider Secrets to Hydraulics'; 'Preventing Hydraulic Failures' and’ Advanced Hydraulic Control'. He mentioned a while back that tapered hose connections are a source of lines leaking. I thought he meant that the connector was tapered. Maybe I got it wrong.
Hey OFF As crazy as that price might be I contacted a guy who sold a 40F last year for 15,000. He said it was in perfect condition.
Yep, I've read articles by Casey. Not entirely sure what he's referring to as source of leak. I'm near certain the 40F used mostly pipe thread fittings, which is a tapered fitting, that is, the threads are tapered. In later models, JLG switched to JIC 37 degree flare fittings, which have a 37 degree taper on the male fitting and 37 degree flare on the mating female fitting. Again, taper. I will tell you this; on your machine, you'll find a number of hose connections, such as at the valves, that have a male pipe fitting on the hose, and it connects to a female swivel fitting on the valve. This connection does not require pipe thread sealant such as pipe tape or pipe dope. The seal is actually done on the inside of the fitting, not the threads. The only time you would use pipe sealant would be where a male fitting fits into a threaded female hole. If it's a female swivel fitting, no sealant.
I'll try and look it up. I saved all of his emails to me. That info. is great to have. Thanks.
This is a question for anyone out there. I have 65 feet of PARFLEX 528N-8 NONCONDUCTIVE hose. SAE100R8 / ½ INCH / WP-3500PSI (It uses 55 series fittings – 133004). Can this be used any ware on the JLG40F ?
I don't see a problem with using PARFLEX 528N. The 1/2" hose has 3,500 lb working pressure, burst pressure is 4x that. Just watch tight bends, it's min bend is 4" radius. The only place I wouldn't use it on your machine is the hoses that connect to manual descent valves and in the power track as it's not recommended in sheave applications and the power track is somewhat similar to a sheave the way it rubs a hose.
Hi ATCO What is the power track exactly?
The power track is that chain link looking thing on top of your boom that allows you to telescope and retract the hoses and cables. The carrier tube is what we commonly call that tubing that the power track is fastend to on the tip section that houses the hoses and cables to the platform.
Thanks for the info. ATCO, and thanks for your patience on all of this as well. That makes a lot of sence. The line doesn’t seem to flex well.
Jackpot!!!! I was in the attic of a shop we abandoned about 10 years ago and I found a file box marked "Old JLG Info". And it contains........[drum roll please] A full set of 40F Bertea drawings and they're very readable :beerchug
Yes ! :notworthy
The problem with non-conductive hose in tight bends is that, unlike rubber wire braid hose, non-conductive will kink, and when it does it weakens the hose wall and it will fail. Aside from that, it would work fine in a number of places on your machine. Wow OFF, a set of readable 40F drawings...that's sweet and rare.
I found my old stash of JLG treasure, not only 40F in Bertea, but also in Racine, PQ, and Cutler/Hamer. 60F in all configs, even Moog/Moog, 80F racine, and 40G.
LoL, you realize that you probably have stuff there that not even JLG has now? When I was training at JLG, they had a 40G in front of the building. That's a rare machine.
A company I worked for from 82 to 84 had a pair of 40G 4x4's. Nice machines. Yeah, I've got all the factory size 17 x 22 drawings. Some of them are even original "blue print" blues. Also in those files were all the internal diagrams for the latching relays and lockout systems. I''ll pm you my contact info, if you ever need that old stuff, just rattle my chain.
LoL...at present, I'd just like to have the wiring schematics for the 40F.
Soon as I figure out how to scan a 17 x 22 sheet of paper :beatsme
Maybe @ a commercial copier place. They could scan it and load a copy onto a memory stick. I’d pay the costs.
jlg 40F Lift PQ controllers and cards I need some help, my pq controller for my JLG 40F is not working. This particular controller uses PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) does anyone have any working boards I could obtain? Even a schematic of the PCB might be a great help. Best regards, Tim [email protected]
Can you make 4 scans, scanning 1/4 of the schematic at a time then we can tape it together?
Are you having an issue with all the controllers? Or just one? Describe the probelm your having as best you can. BTW, welcome to the forum.
pq controller for 40F jlg lift Actually I think we are having problems with 2 or actually (1 and a half) controllers, I was told that the good controller was swapped around to determine that the controllers were bad. To make things more fun, the lift is in Michigan and I am in California. The controller was sent to me for repair. I am an Electrical Engineer. I currently have the UP/Down controller here. A schematic of the PCB would be very useful if one exists. The PCB it self does not have a part number but it does say it is a PWM controller made by P-Q controls, Bristol, CT USA. I have a copy of the "Basket Control Wiring Diagram (Racine)." it shows 3 controllers swing, lift, and Drive all noted with "P/N 11600001(REF)" Does any of this information help or sound familiar? best regards, Tim
The problem is that the bad controller does not do anything when operated, it is completly dead. Tim
Oh yeah...it's familiar stuff on one. When you said you had PWM on a 40F I knew your were working with Racine proportional valves. I haven't worked on one of those, I've worked on 40F's that use Bertea valves. I'm not sure which circuit board you have, many PQ boards are expoxy filled and kinda hard to repair, but yours may be an open board and you can do something with it. If no success, there's a number of places you can obtain replacement boards, probably somone in Cal where you are. The place I use is Hindley Electronics in Ohio, you can do a search and find their website. If you want specs of your controller, you can get that from the PQ website, here's the link; http://www.pqcontrols.com/index.html Click on single axis joysticks in left column, then you can determine which model you have. Probably going to be model 100 or 120. Then click on "Data Central" tab in left column, click on single axis joysticks. Click on Example Installation Drawing for a model 120. One of the drawings on the PDF may be similar to yours. Make sure your looking at a 12V input drawing. Hope that helps a little.
Man, I wish I knew that before I ordered 100 feet of 16/24. As for the oil comment that is really valuable for me thanks. Do you know how many gallons the tank holds? OFF supplied me with clean schematics for the Bertea system. Hopefully I’ll be able to use them properly. Maybe you can answer a question I have. The wiring is going over an open whole at the top of the boom. When everything is retracted this whole is near the basket. I think all of the wires (the 16/24, etc.) are supposed to pass through there, but on mine it doesn’t. Any ideas? If I’m not clear I could take a picture of it. Thanks again twebbjr for all of your time on this. OD1
Hey od1, I was curious how your 40F was coming along, hadn't heard anything from you for a while. Your Bertea valves have work nothing like the Racine valves that twebbjr has on his machine, so the PQ controller is not the same, the Bertea controller does not use PWM. It's been years since I've been around a 40F, send some pics of the hole you described if you can.
Thanks for the info. ATCO. As for the hole I’ll get a picture together as soon as I can. I think the wires are supposed to go through it but I guess you’ll know when you see the pic. I have to order 2 more lines and all of the hydraulic lines before I’ll start. Knowing the lengths of the wiring and line is a huge help. Any idea on the hydraulic oil capacity? The tank is huge.
Welcome I have the common PQ PWM controller boards used on the 40F's (in my dead stock) as well as all the drawings. Usually when a PQ controller is completely dead it's the micro switch mounted right on the board, (activated by the cam on the pot) that's the problem. That's something you can check. I'll email you a set of PQ/Racine 40F drawings this morning.
Hey od1, since OFF is taking care of twebbjr and his PWM boards, I've got something for you showing how your PQ controller works the Bertea coils. Power comes to the controller at the A terminal, then goes to the micro switch (neutral switch on drawing) that's operated by a cam on the side of the controller. When you move the controller in either direction, it operates the switch, which sends power to the C terminal (which goes to the dump valve), and also sends voltage through two resistors to the B and D terminals, and finally to the coil. Since the valve coil has equal postive voltage from either side, and no ground at this point, the coil does not react to move the valve. Back at the controller is the 100 ohm potentiometer which connects between the wires going to B and D terminals. In lever neutral, the pot is centered, making equal resistance to the B and D wires, and the sweep (the arrow coming from the F terminal) inside the pot connects to ground. So you have equal voltage going through the resistors to the coil, and the voltage is being reduced by the resistor in the pot going to ground, everything is balanced. Now, move the controller full stroke to CW rotation. That makes the sweep (arrow) go fully to one side. Now the voltage on B increases because the ground F has moved farther away from it via the pot resistor change, this increases voltage on the B wire going to coil. Likewise, the D wire has a more direct path to ground F because the sweep has moved closer to the D wire and decreased the resistance path. Now you have voltage going to one side of the coil winding and a ground coming back from coil winding which causes valve to shift. View attachment PQ Bertea wiring.bmp
Perfect! I'm going to start printing all of this out. I really appreciate all of your input on this. That info will help me diagnose a problem I have with the forward and reverse. I’ll be posting some pictures of the wiring, etc. at the boom near the platform. There’s a 2 inch hole there that is empty. I think the hose and cable are supposed to go through there. Maybe it’s just the cable? Does anyone know? Also someone made a splice in one spot further back (check photo.) That splice is sitting on top but I think it should be below. If anyone has any idea on this please reply to this forum.
Where do the cable and wires go? :Banghead
Man...you really do need new cables on that thing. I'm thinking they go into the hole and then into the basket pivot area. I'd say if you tilted the basket all the way back, you're probably pinching the cables the way they are run now. Can you send a pic of where the cables go over the rear of the basket leveling cylinder attachment pin and where the cables come out of the carrier tube?
Yep. It's a mess. Where ever the cable bends on this thing there are issues. Look at picture 2. You’ll see a splice there. Just above the splice the cable passes over a bracket for the cylinder. I think it’s supposed to go under the bracket there but it was brought over to make the splice easer. Let me know what you think. It seems to be OK there but it doesn’t look right. Tomorrow I’ll take a picture of the 16/24 where it passes under the platform. I think if it passes through that hole it’ll be more in line. Isn’t there a diagram for where the lines and hoses should go? It’s a real safety issue to screw up the lines in the boom area.
I saw the splice, that's why I said you need new cables. It's been so many years since I've been around an F I can't remember how the cable is routed there, but I was thinking it's supposed to go under the cylinder, then through the hole to prevent it from getting pinched when the platform is tilted back fully. Maybe OFF can remember and add some advice. I just know the Bertea valves require good wiring. The controllers send milliamps of power to the valve coils, bad wiring will cause issues with them. I just don't think it's going to be a big problem re-wiring your machine now that you have schematics of what wire goes where. The wiring on these machines is not that complex. We have a 110HX that is due to come back from the paint shop anyday, I'll pop open the lower control box on it and send you a pic of a bohunkin' control box. :tong
The diagrams are key here. There have been parts and relays installed on this that are not on the diagrams. I have to use a kill switch when I’m done using the machine because several things stay on after the key is switched off. One example is the hour clock. As long as the battery is connected the clock runs. This is the least of its problems though. When you have a minute get that picture of the 110HX to me. Thanks again. Talk with you soon.
LoL, after being around your 40F, if you had the chance to get on a 110HX it would blow you away! They are a sweet machine. The length of the machine stowed is probably near as much as yours extended. And they're built just as solid as your old 40F. I would pick a JLG 110 over a comparable Genie, Terex, or Snorkel. I'll get you some pics when it gets back here.
Well OD1, to my memory those cables & hoses were just looped on the outside of the boom. I'm very sure they did not run through that knuckle where yours are now. I'm thinking they came out of the cable tray, ran through that hole in the boom, then down and around the basket tilt pin - but on the basket side of that pin, and then up to the basket. Remember to leave lots of slack to acount for both basket tilt & swivel. They did hang down a bit where they looped before going up to control box. In the very early 80's the company I work for put together a operator training package with lots of photos using 40F's, 60F's, and an 80F. I'll see if there's a copy of it somewhere. Cross your fingers.:lmao
Thanks OFF for your input. I'm going to see if I can get the boom to lift, and take a picture of the underside. It's pretty cold here today so it'll need 45 min. or so to warm up. The hole has been painted over since the patched wiring job so it's hard to see if there is any ware there.
It sounds like that model should come standard with a toilet. If it’s as slow as mine I’d never make it down in time. ops
Here's a good picture.
2 of 6 :Banghead
Well, I suppose that would be a problem. You should take a ride in a JLG 800A Quick Stick. It will raise the fully extended main boom from the ground to full 80 ft elevation in less than 50 seconds, and come back down just as fast. It's a weird feeling to be raising the boom full speed and when it gets near the top it just slows down and comes to a stop.
4 of 6 :Banghead
I would call that an oops. Whoever changed the cables first had a moment
How things have changed! It was quite a rush in the old machines to forget and hit the end of the lift cylinder without feathering the controller and they were only moving a tenth of that speed
LoL...amen bro, been there! Done it with hydro cranes as well, shakes the whole machine. When I took my first ride in an 800A Quick Stick, it was crazy. Your raising the boom full tilt, nearing 80 ft, and you kinda get that feeling you get when you go over the top on a Ferris Wheel, but the boom just gently slows down and comes to a stop. It's a pretty weird ride.
6 of 6 :Banghead
Oh man...your cable is NASTY! When you do get around to replacing it, don't wire tie the cable to the power track like someone did in pic #6. The cable has to be able to move as the power track rolls in and out.
You said it. I'm sure 90 percent of this machines problems is that cable. The other 10 percent is probably me. What about picture 1. Is there a bumper missing? It seems there should be something there to stop it from hitting. There are no holes there though. Do you think I should have something there? I was going to ask if any wraps should be used. I thought connecting it to the track was wrong but I thought I'd tye all of the lines together with tyes and secure them loosely together as I know the hydraulic lines will expand and contract. Please let me know what you think. A few of the cross parts of the track are broken. Any ideas on a parts source for that. I found a few but they are all plastic. I'm sure it'll be better in metal.
OD1, as far as I remember there was nothing on the boom cradle of those machines. The boom went all the way down, metal to metal, and make really unpleaseant creaking sounds as it loaded up. I actually used to do that intentionally while watching the main pivot pin on the end of the boom for movement (worn bushings). That cable track might be tough to find these days. Nothing is finer than spending a week of your life taking off one thousand little c-clips and pounding out, cleaning, lubing, and re-assembling a thousand little pins. :tong I've got about a 3ft section of it from a 40HA in plastic, I doubt they'd mate up though.
I have a friend with a machine shop. I'll ask him to turn some for me. I need 6 or so. I saw a part on a dock that I thought might work as a stop. It's made of aluminum and has what looks like tire rubber pressed together on end. It's about 2 inches thick including the metal. It's a bumper to protect a boat from coming into contact with the dock. I also thought of using a flat piece 2 inch steel and having a brake bad fused on. My friend with the shop relines brakes for skidders, dozers, etc. What do you think? Would it damage anything?
Oh no, you won't hurt anything. The more material you put in there, the higher your basket will sit off the ground when it's stowed that's all. Baskets on the newer machines sit way higher anyway. :beatsme
You could use a piece of flat UHMW plastic. That's what boom wear pads are typically made of.
Thanks guys. I restored an old Willys CJ2A and used to blocks of that on the hood. It was to hold the windshield in the down position. I might be able to just epoxy it on there.
I just joined the JLG 40F club I just bought a 40F myself.Three different shade tree mechanics have rooted around in the basket, now the wiring is hanging loose. It will still operate from the ground.I really need a readable wiring diagram. thanks
Welcome. There are 4 possible brands of controllers you can have on a 40F, each uses a different wiring schematic. Do you know which controller you have? Racine has a round rubber boot, Bertea has an oval rubber boot, and PQ has no boot with the level going in the top. Moog has no boot with the level going into the side of the box.
I'll send you the two sets of diagrams we've got scanned. One is a Bertea, the other is a Racine. The PQ is almost identical to the Racine, you can follow right up to the controllers. Moog is old...way in the dark ages.....you shouldn't have Moog.
It seems as though there are still quite a few of these machines out there and JLG no longer supports them. If one of you who have a complete manual would be interested in getting it copied, I would be interested in buying one just to have. Never know when someone will call needing one repaired. The Hydraulics and Pneumatics blog also has a thread on one of these machines.
The copies I have originated from OFF. I see he’s in touch with you. He’s light years a head of me on this. I can send you the copies I have though. If you still need them let me know what email address you want them sent to.:cool2
JLG sells them for 190.00. One sold on the web last year for 40.00. I'm looking all the time . If I get 1 I'll be glad to copy it for you. :cool2
I think the reason those machines are still in use is because they were by far the best manlift on the market at the time and JLG sold lots of them. Other machines on the market in the late 70's/early 80's like Condor & Snorkle Lift.....I'm sure they've all been made into Nissans & Toyota's by now. They were big, heavy, slow, clumsy machines with serious reliability issues. The 40F was a well designed, nice little machine. :cool2 (notice I didn't say trouble-free) I don't have any manuals left, but I do have a file box full of electrical & hydraulic schematics for most of the old JLG models - 40F, 50F, 60F, 80F, 40G, 60H, 40HA, 60HA that escaped the garbage bin. Happy to help, I like those old babies.
I found a manual for a 30F today. It shows the weight as 12,000 lbs. What is the weight of a 40F? I am gonna need a bigger trailer
I think it's the same weight.:cool2
Hey Tim Can you post what you have here? I'd like to see it. Thanks
Hey Atcoequip Is there any special technique for removing and servicing the brakes? How do the brakes engage? Any ideas?
Wow dude, it's been so many years since I've worked on a 40F, let's just say...I've slept since then. I don't recall the brakes being difficult to service. Take the cover off of the drive wheels and you'll see the drive motor and brake assembly. The brakes are spring applied. When the machine is at rest with the engine not running, the springs apply pressure to the brake disks to hold the machine. Even with engine running, the brakes are applied until you select Drive. I can't remember on a 40F, but later JLG machines used a solenoid valve to apply hyd pressure to overcome springs and release brakes when drive was selected. Can't remember for sure, but I would say the 40F used a similar method. Can you remove the drive axle cover and post a pic of the drive motor and brake?
Well it's 1:40 . I guess it's not going to get any warmer out there today. I'll get that plate off in a few minutes and get a pic. or two. Did you ever work on a JLG 40C circa 1973? It looks a lot like the 40F. If so let me know what you think about them. There's 1 for sale. :beatsme
Nope, haven't worked on a C. Only as far back as 40F.
If I remember right , the 40F used the same ole Mico brake assy, spring applied, hyd released, when the threshold on the controller was engaged. I still have JLG nightmares! They mostly subsided tho when I started working on Genies. Of course they were enough old H's and TB's around to keep ya jumpin'! LOL! Hey ATCO.. ever work on the old UNO lifts? The old POS with the cable operated brake pedal in the basket? Very nice! And of course all bang bang controls with RexRoth valves!
Yep, I've worked on an UNO, many moons ago, I had forgot about that...until now. Worked on too many Economy and Snorkel. Got a PRO126 Snorkel that's about to drive me crazy right now! Stupid thing! I never minded working on Genie machines. One thing Genie does really well is their wiring systems and schematics. JLG does good wiring, but their schematics could be better. I'll be Ok with Genie...unless they take on the Terex mentality. Not too fond of Terex boom lifts. Terex aquired the old Mark Lifts, and proceeded to make them not much better. Just more complicated.
Here are the brake pictures :Banghead
Nice stuff OD1 :thumbsup I can't get over how original that machine is, everything is still wearing the factory yellow paint.
Geez, it's been years since I've seen those things! If I remember correctly, there should be a gap between that steel block (has the jamb nut against it) and the end of the cylinder body. I'm thinking when the block begins to contact the end of the cylinder, the brake pads are getting worn. I believe the cylinder rod is threaded into the block and the jam nut prevents cylinder rod from turning. You have to loosen/remove the jam nut, then turn the cylinder rod to release brake pressure. Then you can remove components to service brakes. At least, I think that's the way they worked.
LoL...ever worked on a Zefer Lift? They billed their scissor lifts as "Environmentally Friendly" because they used no hyd oil. Had no hyd cylinder to raise platform. They used an electric motor driving a 90 degree gearbox which turned a long screw. The screw went into a screw block mounted to the scissor arms. Turning the screw CW and CCW made the scissor go up and down. Enviro Friendly, eh? They were electric, they still used 4 lead acid batteries ! :lmao
Every time I remove some plating I find more original hoses or cable. ointhead
Except the wiring at the platform controls.
I think I see what you mean. I can see about a 16th maybe a little more than that left as far as the pads go. There seems to be a grove cut in the middle which would be even at around a 32 nd. I’m guessing that’s its minimal tolerance. The brake seems tight at least on that side, but it doesn’t seem to have enough pressure. There is some grime there but it should be dry enough to make contact. If I try and adjust it and it doesn’t release all of the way will it over heat anything? I guess towing it short distances would be out of the question wouldn’t it. If the brakes are on as the default they would heat up for sure. The other issue with towing that I wanted to ask is would I damage the drive motors by towing it say a mile or so? :beatsme
As off mentioned previously, disconnecting drive wheels from motors/brakes is easy. On the outside of the Torque Hubs is a plate with a bump on it, right on the center of the Torque Hub. It's held on by (2) 1/4" bolts. Remove the two bolts holding the plate, the plate comes free, then flip the plate over so the bump points inward. Re-install plate with the removed bolts. The bump now pushes a shaft in that disconnects the planetary hubs from the drive motors and brakes. The machine will free wheel now, but go slowly because your still turning the planetary gears inside the torque hubs.
Man that’s amazing. That’s great to know. I’ll have to reread everything again. I don’t remember talking about that before. How fast do you think I can roll with it? Is there a hitch plan anywhere for it? There seems to be a setup for it on the front side (non drive side). Thanks again for all of your input ATCO. It’s a huge help. :notworthy
Man that’s the truth! :cool2
Don't get too exited, disconnecting the hubs is the easy part, towing it is a problem in itself. JLG had a "tow option" on these machines that consisted of a rigid tow bar that connected to the steer axle frame and had a tie rod that went to the steer wheel opposite the steer cylinder. If you don't have this tow option, then you problems begin there. First, you can't tow it with a chain/tow strap because the machine has the brakes disconnected. You have to use a rigid tow bar. Easy enough...make one. But, you still have the problem with the steer axle. The steer wheels have to be able to move as the tow vehicle rounds corners and bends in the road. There's one thing we need to determine at this point. On a number of 40F machines, JLG installed a diverter valve for the steer cylinder even if the machine didn't have the tow package. If I remember, the diverter valve was located directly behind the engine, below the boom mounting. You could raise the side panels and see the diverter valve with a knob on it near the center of the machine behind the engine. Does you machine have this diverter valve?
We had a tow bar made up for 40F's back in the day. It was basicly a "U" channel welded to a piece of pipe with a hitch on the oposite end. In the center of you steer axle there's a pivot. The U-channel fit around the sides of pivot, a bolt slipped through the "U" and that was it. You can always disconnect one or both sides of your steer cylinder when you tow. As for your brakes, like ATCO said when that block contacts the body of the cylinder you're out of adjustment. I remember the brakes on 40F's never being really great. I was always tinkering with them. Most manlifts use an internal wet multi-disc system that works so much better. I'd be interested to see if that 42C you had in your sights used an internal brake. I know the 50F and 60F did.
I just went to look, and I’m not sure what I’m looking for. Behind the engine on the right there is a bracket with a line coming out but I’m not sure if that’s the 1 you mean. Where does the line run to? In the front before the steering cylinder there is a bracket which looks factory for a towbar.
The second thing I was worried about was the steering cylinder. I thought if I disconnected it the rig would then be too unmanageable to tow. It would react like a hay wagon on a hitch bar, you know drifting from side to side. This would force a pickup truck all over the road. Pretty dangerous. What do you think? I’m still a little lost on the brake thing. I think it’ll be clearer for me once I start playing with it.
As for the 42C I didn't bid on it. The auction was a joke. If I'm going to get another one I think it'll be better for my business to have a 4 wheel drive rig. I could maybe use it for de-limbing plantation trees. There's good money in poles.
You shouldn't be going fast enough that side to side would become a problem, but yes it would steer like a farm wagon. The side to side you mentioned is from the steering parts of a wagon being worn right out. New wagons don't do that dance. It won't follow at all with the cylinder the way it is. You'll turn a corner and the manlift will keep going straight. Take the cylinder apart and see which way the springs act. Either the springs "pull" and you're out of adjustment, or the springs are ment to push and they're all broken. (the wavy washers I mentioned)
If it warms up tomorrow I'll remove it. Do you know how thick the new pads are supposed to be? While I have it apart I'll give it to my friend to re-line. Thanks again for all of your help on this. Talk with you soon.
If I remember correctly, the steering diverter valve was located inside the engine compartment, in the area of and the hyd pump. It would look similar to, but not exactly, the first valve shown in link below; http://www.baileynet.com/index.php?id=31&productcategory=1000032 Can you send a pic of the steer cylinder showing the steer links and bracket that you mentioned?
Thanks ATCO I checked out that link, and there is nothing like that on this 40F. Is it's use to cut fluid to the drive motors? If so can I retro-fit this on my rig?
Hitch for towing? Look below the steering cylinder, and towards the middle. You’ll see a vertical part protruding with a hole. I think that’s for the hitch bar.
I stumbled upon this by accident. I have a 40F that I would like to sell. I have been afraid to try, since it doesn't have OSHA safety inspections, etc. and requires some operator knowledge. Here are people that know about this machine! Overall good condition, I think. Brakes work, all switches work on the platform, horn relay works, but I never replaced the horn. Replacement solenoid for low/high engine speed in hand, but not installed yet. Was originally proportional Racine, but had a leaky part, nobody locally knew how to fix it, so I bought a new block and put 4 solenoid operated valves and a variable restrictor on, also put a filter on the return side. Have the Racine valve bank and controllers to give to the buyer, also. 1 new drive tire, bunch of new hoses, power track is freed up on every link, doesn't bind up and bend anything. Platform rotate has hoses run, but was spot welded in a fixed position by previous owner, but has an extra valve to operate it, plumbed to the rotator, (must have had a leak at the rotator motor? or had coil problem? don't know). I do have some wiring diagrams, bought from JLG, that are probably the same as the other helpful posters have. I blew mine up to 200% size and laminated them for working outside with the wiring. I agree with the previous poster that said it is a very well built lift, it is tight and strong, with no hint of instability while you are up in the air with it.
Why are you selling it?
The diverter valve I was hoping would be on yours is to allow steer cylinder to move while your towing the machine. If you don't have the valve, no big deal, just do what off suggested by disconnecting the steer cylinder where the rod end connects to steering knuckle, retract the cylinder, then swing it away from the steering components so you can tow the machine. Yes, the bracket in the pic is for connecting tow bar. Just build a tow bar with a pintle hitch ring to hook to tow vehicle, disconnect steer cylinder, turn over the plates on the drive hubs, and your ready to tow. Just go slow because your still turning plantery gears in the drive wheel Torque Hubs.
I've got some really tall trees, and was hoping to get a 60 or a 66 foot one. It has really been handy to have. I could use 4wd for a few places, but by watching the angle I approach ridges or valleys, it's doable. I wonder, though, what the tire loading on my asphalt driveway would be with one of those bigger machines, whether it would instantly crack it.
Towing JLG FYI, the manual states maximum towing speed with the towing option is 10mph.
Thanks OHIOJOE for that info. 10 miles an hr., is that without doing anything to it, or does that include changing the hub positions?
Yep, you still have to flip the plates to disconnect hubs from drive motors and brakes. I was just thinking about this tread today od1. We got the 110HX back from the paint shop, got a chance to put some decals on it. LoL, this beast has a boom that fully retracted is as long as yours fully extended. :tong here's the lower control panel inside the lower panel. JLG gave us a little more working room in here than the lower box on the 40F
Looks like you need a wind speed indicator when you stretch that thing out. 40 ft. is more than I can stand anymore.
Yes, you have to flip the plates. I just had to pull my 30G today as the tires don't have enough traction on turf. There is a steer/tow selector valve just behind the steering cylinder on mine. Seemed to pull very easy with a Kubota 3710 tractor. My 30G looks like your 40, just not as pretty.
Hello ohiojoe, make a 3rd post and you'll soon lose the probationary status and become a Junior Member. Welcome to the forum. :usa
Please be careful pulling these lifts with the towbar. They are heavier than they look, my 30G can easily push my tractor (3k lbs) around. Even my F250 weighing 8K lbs. can be pushed by my 30G which weighs about 12K lbs.
Hey ATCO Thanks for thinking of me. I didn't log in, in a few weeks. What year is that 110HX ? It looks new. Do you want to trade? Great looking rig. Much more organised then the 40F. Do you feel safe on it?
Thanks ohiojoe for that input. I was going to use a pickup. I guess I'll pass on that idea. When I bought it I had it brought here on a flatbed. i'4 of the tires were off the sides of the bed. The guy chained it down and crossed himself. I drove a head of him.
ATCO I pulled the battery this week. We got over 8 inches of snow here. I started removing the side panels but it looks like winter is here. It'll give me the winter to find a good deal on hydraulic line. I have all of the electrical wires. The wiring diagram has me a little freaked out but I think I'll be OK. I wish there was another 40F around here that I could run to if I got into trouble.
LoL...sure, we'll trade, this thing will put you near 40 feet in the air without even telescoping. Actually, it's a '95 model machine, but was rebuilt by JLG factory in '05, we just did a fresh paint job on it. The 110HX is good machine for safety. It's safety controls durable and redundant. To turn one over would require serious control malfunctions as well as intentional safety system bypassing by some knothead that has no business in the lower control box. Yep, JLG wiring diagrams aren't the hardest to work with, but they ain't the easiest either, Genie has them beat on diagrams. But no worries, when you start working with them, if you have a question make a post, between me and OFF we'll work ya through it.
Wow I have not worked on a F model in a LONG time. I know the first factory school I went to was on the H model. Not sure what all I will have for the F model. I think my first Spec book should cover it though. I'll see what I can did up for you. Maybe be able to jump in a help. JJ
Even though this 40F seems to be under engineered a bit it still seems safe. I’ve been stuck in the air do to the faulty wiring and thought (I had plenty of time to think wile up there.) why didn’t JLG wire up the 3 emergency valves to 3 solenoid switches that could be triggered one at a time by lifting a safety lock switch to open each valve from the basket. That way anyone in trouble could get themselves down. I guess it’s in my nature to reverse-engineer everything. I’m not sure if I understood you though. Are you saying it takes two men to run the 110HX? Thanks again for all of your support on this project. I spoke to OFF tonight on the side. He’s been a great help as well. I don’t want to burn you guys out though. There have been a couple thousand hits on this posting and if you do a Google search for the JLG 40F I think it comes up 4th. Not bad. I think this posting will help a lot of people as well.
Sounds great.
LoL...no. It's still a one man machine. I was just pointing out that the 110HX, like most any manlift larger that 80 ft, does have areas of instablility and can tip. To prevent this, there are numerous safety devices on them. The safety devices on the 110HX are old school simple, aside from a couple of simple IC circuit boards. And the design and devices are redundant, meaning, there's a back up if a primary device fails. There is a simple pre-op test an operator performs that will reveal any failures. To tip one would nearly require some idiot to monkey around with or disable the safety devices of the machine.
I'm not trying to take over the thread but I am new to the forum and can't make a new topic. I have a JLG Model 60F and was hoping to get some info (diagrams, manuals, etc) from anyone on here (OFF and ATCOEQUIP seems like you have the experience with these pieces of equipment).
Welcome We'll do our best to help you out. I do not have a 60F manual, but I do have a fairly complete collection of diagrams & schematics as well as a bit of dead parts stock. What kind of controllers does your 60F have?
OFF, the 60f has (3) PQ controllers (swing, lift, and travel) with no boots just levers into the control box.
You've got mail!
LoL...somehow, you cheated! That was just too easy! :yup :lmao :drinkup
PLease Help! Hey fellas, I am working on a 40 f today and saw that you guys have quite a lot of knowledge of this beast. Well , my question is this. I've got no swing,lift, drive functions, from basket or platform. I do have steer,boom in/out, bucket tilt from both bucket and platform. I have just installed a new hyd pump, not sure if these functions worked before the pump or not. Any body have any suggestions or manuals around? :Banghead
Oh another thing, I have checked psi and all is good. I have power at the dump valves and power at the controll coils. I can manually make the unit do all the functions by pushing in on the valves and twisting them in several rotations. But I need control from the switches. I think i need a bigger hammer!
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm. My first guess would have been the relay (solenoid) powering the dump valve for the porportional functions, but being able to operate the functions manually rules that out. Run a volt meter to terminals #13 & #14 in the main control box, put it on basket control, ignition on, foot on deadman, and operate the drive controller. As soon as you move off center you should see approx. 6 volts. Moving one direction the voltage should go higher that 6, the other direction the voltage will go lower than 6. Let us know what yours says. Terminals in the box are arranged starting in the top upper left corner and working down each row.
Another thing you should check is to make sure terminal #24 at platform controls is making a good ground/earth. #24 is the common ground for the proportional controls. If it's not making a good ground, all three proportional functions won't operate.
Man, im glad I found you guys. I am constantly diagnosing problems with a lot of different kinds of equipment. Everything from dirt moving, material handling, highreach man lifts, to trucks, trailers, generators, air compressors and hyd attachments. Quite a lot of books, manuals and hard knox experience. You Guys are the Knights of Equipment and I am your page. Thank you for the info.
LoL, it's your world...we're just ridin' on the passenger side with the window down. Well, did you get your problem figured out?
still working on the diagnosis( I have turned it into a hands on class for the other techs). After chasing gremlins in the electrical harness, I had to remind the techs to KISS(keep it simple stupid) the beast. We found there is 12v to the control valves and dump valves. The dump valve for the 3 functions(swing, lift, drive)is working but not properly(its not moving enough and you can push it by hand, its weak) so I advised them to swapp the dump valves (the good one with the other is in question) we will see what happens. Then check the physical function of the controll coils on the 3 function valves. Why do techs always want to do the "drive by diagnose" and replace parts? I am trying to remove "assumption" and "probably" out of there vocabulary. I will let you know the outcome.
ok, we got the fix on the no swing,lift, drive problem. The dump valve was not closing all the way and under psi it would go back to tank every time. Thank you guys for setting on the right track. Now we have to find a valve other than jlg. They are pretty proud of there parts
Did you take the faulty dump valve apart and try to determine what's keeping the spool from shifting fully? Just wondering why you have to replace the dump valve. I can't remember on the 40F, but a lot of the later JLG machines have the main relief valve in the same valve body as the dump valve.
Oh yea, the dump valve had a contaminant in it. We cleaned it out and put it back. All is well. The reason I wanted to replace it is that the movement back and forth is weak. You dont think I should replace it?
Well, I'm trying to understand what you mean by the movement back and forth is weak. Do you mean the solenoid is slow to shift valve spool and it releases slowly as well? Just not sure what you mean.
OK, try this. when you remove the valve from valve block, actuate the valve by putting the solenoid back on the valve, actuate the function from lower control box, the the inside of the valve stem moves up and down. The part that moves up and down inside the stem can be pushed in manually(pocket screwdriver) reguardless of position. in other words very littel psi can open the valve when it should be closed. Which tells me the valve is bad. What do you think?
It's been so long since I've worked on a 40F, I just can't remember what the dump valve components are like on one to follow along with ya. Maybe off has a parts diagram for one. Is there anyway you could make some pics of the components?
40f I have the schematics you need on a disc, I can e-mail them to you or scan them and fax them, I have the disc from one of my certification classes. Just let me know if you still need them. Also, you would be better off in the longrun to R&R the harness, you can get the cable from aftermarket suppliers, the numerous splices you mentioned especially going from copper to aluminum will reak havoc on amperage. These old units aren't as sensitive as the new ones to voltage/amperage drop and spike, but you can get some ghost functions from the bad grounds that can occur from these splices. Have a good day.:bash
Sounds like our Manlift 40FR. My maintenance shop has asked me to searchout and find electrical and hydraulic schematics as the unit will not go into second gear. We did have a repair shop do major work on this unit a few years back. Everything worked fine until recently. Let me know if anyone comes across these schematics/manuals.
Welcome to the forum modern. :usa I wonder if your 40FR is the same as the 40F. Off emailed me the electrical schematics on the 40F. You might have a problem with the mercury switch on main boom. It cuts out the hi drive circuit when boom is elevated, it also cuts out the hi throttle. A malfunction of the mercury switch would affect both these operations.
Jlg40fr If there is anyone that has electrical and hydraulic schematics, it would sure be appreciated if we coulc get a copy either emailed, faxed or snail mail. Let me know. My mechanics have been scratching their heads the past few days.
I've never seen a 40FR but I can email you the 40F schematics I have. How many toggle switchs for high drive? One or two? (not counting high engine) I'm trying to get the 40F manual scanned in to an emailable format for EMT, when I'm successfull I'll can send you a copy too.
Jlg 40fr We have one toggle switch for high drive. They are still under the hood when I asked them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you,
Well Finally figured it alll out.Man talk about brain damage! the hyd oil is contaminated from the hyd pump taking a dump. So particles in the oil reservoir causing the dump valve to stick open sometimes or stay closed sometimes. Then the wiring harness is soooooooooo old and funky that the voltage reading is less when unit is cold(right now in denver it like 30's) then when unit warms up the voltage is more (this is at the control valves). So it would start out at 7 or 8 volts at control valves in the morning then we would shut off unit and return in the middle of the day when it gets the warmest the voltage is now 11 or 12v. All the time the alternator it is putting out 13.6 volts......... CRAZY OLD AND FUNKY. Thanks for your help in the jlg 40f delima
Yep, seen fragments and debris get lodged in valves before, all sorts of goofy things can happen. Glad to hear ya got it working. Hey OFF, I have the wiring PDF's for the 40F that I should be able to email to modern if you don't come up with something.
Hey thanks, but I sent him the 40F schematic set a while ago. Amazing how many of those machines are still out there working. I googled a 40FR, looks just like a 40F to me :beatsme
LoL, yeah, I was talking to od1 one day and he said the same thing about how many of these things are still out there. I told him that I have a feeling this thread is going to live as long as the 40F. Hey modern, have you located the hi-drive solenoid valve? Have you tried connecting power and ground to solenoid valve with jumper wires to see if it activates hi-drive? That's where I would start.
I've been following the discussion on JLG 40F because I have one. Everything has been working well except today after using it to trim a tree for about 2hrs and driving back into the shop area I lost my steering, boom in/out, and basket tilt. I tried form both positions and same story. It just quit working all of a sudden. Also could someone please E-mail me a set of schematics. I printed the ones on the forum but couldn't make them out when I enlarged them. Thanks Tim_
Sounds like you lost one of the solenoid valve banks. Locate the dump valve for that bank, check the ground wire on it, then look down on the frame beside engine or on the crossmember under the engine for a relay (solenoid) that controls that dump valve. Chances are it's one of those two things. If your profile lists an email I'll send you schematics.
Hey thanks OFF, I just checked my E-Mail and I got the stuff you sent. Let me mull this over now that I know what I'm looking at and I'll let you know what I find. Thanks agian, Tim_
And Welcome to the site
Are there any pictures of the valve banks that indicate there function ie. boom in/out. Also are there any hydraulic diagrams available? On an earlier post I saw a picture of valve bank called the "bang-bang valves with the dump valve at the top. My machine has Racine valves but not sure whats what without actually tracing out the wiring. Thanks to OFF I now have a good set of wiring schematics. I have limited experience in valve blocks and was wondering what the dump valve actually does? Tim_
Yes, you're looking for a bank of 3 bang-bang valves (also called solenoid valves). I believe there are 2 such banks on a 40F. The dump valve controls the oil flow to the valve section (like an off/on switch) and it sort of looks like 1/2 a bang-bang. Some are mounted right to the bang-bang section, others are remotely mounted. As for which valve does what, even the manual isn't reliable on that. Only way I know of is to pull one spade connector at a time on the bang-bangs and note which function stops working. Then mark them so you know for next time. According to the schematic, follow the hose connected to the middle pump section. It should lead directly to the dump valve you're after.
Hi Tim, Looks like OFF has pretty much got you taken care of, and I have only worked on 40F's with Bertea valves, he knows much more about the Racine set ups on this machine. But I can answer your question about the purpose of the dump valve. The dump valve does what the name implies, it dumps oil back to the hyd tank. JLG didn't want pressure and flow going to the valve bodies when no functions are being operated. When you have the engine running, and your not working anything, the dump valve sends the oil supply to tank. When you operate a function of that valve bank, your doing two things; 1) you power up the dump valve coil, which now diverts the oil to the valve body, and 2) you power up the coil of the valve function your operating, like telescope out. When you let go of the telescope out function, the telescope valve centers itself, and the dump valve now diverts oil to tank. Of the number of benefits of using a dump valve, one would be the scenario we just described. Let's say your telescoping out, let go of the telescope toggle, but the telescope valve malfunctions, and it continues to boom out. You could be telescoping into a wall or something and unable to stop it. The dump valve provides a redundant back up in this case. Telescope valve malfunctions, but the dump valve still operates, sends oil to tank, telescope stops. Hope that helps you out a bit.
Thanks for the input now all I have to do is get a little time to really dig in to this beast. Oh also can you manually operate the valves by pushing in on the pin coming out of the coil. I guess I'd have to do the dump valve and the function valve both if possible. Just a thought. Tim_
Yep, that's the way they work. Rather stiff to push those pins in. And yes, dump valve has to be pushed in as well to operate a function. If you had a machine that lost electrical controls, but engine still ran, you could manually operate boom this way.
I just stumbled across this forum and you guys have answered a LOT of my questions already. I have a 40F that has suffered many years of maintenance abuse by people that knew very little about electrical stuff, and as a result, very little of it worked. I have the task of making it serviceable but I have no electrical or hydraulic schematics to work with. I've spent a lot of time reverse engineering and I think that my drawings are pretty close but still have a few issues, hi drive being one of them. I wonder if it would be possible to get ahold of some real schematics? I believe we have the Racine controllers. Thanks for all the help you folks have been already!
Welcome to the forum dbris. :usa I've got electrical schematics for Racine and Bertea valves that OFF sent me. I can email them to you if you know which ones you have. Is that your preferred email address you have at your member profile?
Yep, that's a good email address and thanks for the help, I can't wait to see how wrong my drawings are!
You got mail! BTW, you need to make another post and you'll become a Junior Member.
Good idea since I wanted to thank you publicly. This is a great group and I'm sure I'll have some more questions.
There ya go, got your 3 posts in. Won't be long you'll be a Junior Member and you can post a pic of your 40F.
Bingo! Problem sloved. A friend took the schematics OFF provided and had them blown up to 11 x22 and everything was clear. Found the dump valves on the cross brace above the pump and used the schematics to find the dump solenoid and it was not pulling in. I jumped across it just to see if that was the problem and everything came to life. Thanks for all the help. I plan on taking some pictures of the items I found and I'll post them soon. Thanks again Tim_
Good to hear you got it figured out Tim. Post some pics soon.
Thanks guys, the electrical drawings helped a lot. I still have an issue with the dump valve for the proportional side (lift, swing and drive) since it seems to be different from the drawings. I've attached (I hope!) pics of both valve stacks in hopes that someone can help me. There is no dump solenoid on the lift-swing-drive stack but there's a valve with 2 coils on it above the junction box (you can only see 1 coil in the pic - the other one is on the back) and I am assuming that is the dump and hi drive valve but without the hydraulic schematic I'm just guessing. The other valve stack does have a solenoid dump valve on top. Am I even close here? Also, can someone tell me where to find the ID plate on the 40F? I can't find a serial # anywhere. Even with all the problems, this thing is kind of fun to play with - I learn something new every time work on it!
Wow, I haven't looked inside one of those units for many moons. Yep, you have Racine proportional valves for sure. Haven't worked on any of those myself, just the Bertea valves. OFF would know more about that machine. But the electrical schematic shows a proportional dump valve. I can see the bang valve with the dump valve in the inlet section in pic 2. Not sure what I'm looking at in pic 1, not enough view there for me to tell. You will have a high drive solenoid valve in there somewhere. The hi drive is very simple; you have a multi section hyd pump. One pump feeds oil to the proportional valve section. This gives you drive. Another pump section goes to the high speed valve, which is actually another dump valve, it dumps the oil from it's pump section back to tank, unless, you select hi drive, then it diverts the oil that was being sent to tank to combine with oil being delivered from other pump, going to proportional valves. Now you have two pumps providing increased oil flow to proportional valves, giving you hi speed drive. But you should have a dump valve for the proportional valves as well. You should be able to follow your hoses from the pumps and determine where the dump and high speed valve is.
Thanks ATCO, that makes sense on the hi drive. Sorry about the picture, it's one that I just happened to have but I'll get out there in the next few days and get some better ones. There is a manifold of sorts on the left side of the proportionals but no solenoid. It has 5 ports on it, 2 go to a filter (loop) 1 is a return to the tank, 1 is direct pressure from the pump and one goes through a check valve to the solenoid valve that's above the Hobbs meter in the picture. That valve in turn has 1 port to the third pressure output of the pump and a return to the tank,and it also has 2 coils. I'm sure that that's the hi drive from your description of how it works, but why 2 coils and where's the dump valve? I'm sure some better pics will help. It's neat to learn something new every time I look at this forum!
Dbris, I believe your on the right track. It looks alittle different than mine but for the most part it's the same. The Hi drive valve is the one in the picture above the Hobbs meter and junction box. If you find your pump and follow the middle line it goes to the dump valve for the bang-bang (steer, telescope, and level),mine was located in the middle high on a cross brace with the dump valve for the proportional stack, side by side. If anyone has a hydraulic schematic I'd love to have a copy. And as OFF stated before not all of these machines are the same. Hope this helps and like you I learn something new everytime I work on it. Tim_
funny thing this dinasour, I ran in to the same problem. I had the same electric schematic. witch did help but not totally. I had no drive,swing, lift, which is controlled by the same dump valve. I found 2 problems 1st there was contaminants in the hydraulic systems which was sticking the dump vale open running hyd psi back to tank. I removed and cleaned dump valve. changed hyd filter. then 2nd problem, electric harness is old and has too much resistance in the harness to the controll valves. I cleaned grounds, charged the battery and watched the unit work. Just a couple of possibilities. Bye the way the dump valve on your left is the one that controls the lift,drive,swing. hope that helps you!
Ok, here are some better pictures of the proportional valves and the hydraulic schematic that I reverse engineered. The schematic may not be 100% accurate but it should be pretty close. If anyone has any corrections, please send them to me. I hope it's readable but if not, I have it in a PDF that I'd be happy to send - just ask. The proportional valves do not seem to have a dump valve of any kind. The pressure comes direct from the pump to the manifold thing on the left end of the valve stack and all functions work without either coil on the hi drive solenoid connected. Even though everything works ok, I'd sure like to know how it's supposed to work, and of course, why there are 2 coils on the hi drive!
No pictures? Well, lets try it again.
In my experience the proportional valve bank (lift/swing/drive) always has a dump valve. Looking at your second picture, in the second set of pictures, the big lump to the left of the three proportional valve sections looks to me like it may contain the dump valve for that section. Follow the hydraulic hose coming from the largest section of the pump (closest to the engine flywheel) and it should lead you directly to the dump valve you seek. There were "Integral dumps" (dump is part of the valve body). The manual shows 2 different hyd. schematics - one with 3 remote dump valves and the other with only one for high drive. I can see I need to put top priority on getting this manual copied and sent out to you guys.
Hey OFF, I wonder if you were to take it to a print shop, would they say "this is copyright material". Then you could say, "well, the copyright must be expired...because this material is no longer available from the people who produced it and obtained the copyright in the first place!" LoL
Thanks Off, I think you're right that the lump on the end contains the dump valve but I believe that it works differently than the other valves. The dump valve seems to be integral to the valve stack and when any of the proportional valves are activated by their solenoid, the dump valve does it's thing. It does not have it's own solenoid, it's actuated internally. I'd be happy to help out with $$ if we could get access to that manual!
That's what I'm worried about. I don't want JLG's lawyers to come knocking on my door one day.
LoL, that's what I'm wondering. Can they come after you for something they don't even have available nowdays? Curious eh?
Here's the same lump And here's what the back of the lump looks like. I'm 99.99% sure it would have had a solenoid hooked to it just like your other dump valves. Any big hunks of tape hanging around that look like a solenoid by-passed?
I gotta do it. I wonder if I split the manual into 3 files (Operators/Service/Parts) if they'd be too large to email? PDF's are small, right? If the copier/scanner/printer/fax at the office was my friend, I'd have copies printed by now. I can't get it to double side properly. I may have to ask for help
Sure does look like the same lump. I'll take another look at it, maybe it's been modified but I'd swear there was no solenoid on it!:beatsme
Anybody who might be interested in a 40F manual set for the price of postage, send me a PM.
Well, the lumps match and it has the coil (hidden in 35 years of muck) It seems to be wired to be on all the time so I need to do a little more research. Other than intermittent left steering, my one remaining problem is why there are 2 solenoids on the hi drive valve. I really appreciate the help that I'm getting from this forum, especially from OFF and ATCO you guys are great!
Been years since I've looked at one of those things, but that high drive solenoid is a mystery to me. Not sure why it has two solenoid coils, it doesn't show two on the schematic. But looking at the pic, it looks like an inlet section with a solenoid valve, and a relief section with another solenoid valve. Don't know why they would rig it up like that, but I'd bet they both power up when you select hi-drive. Are you familiar with a valve rigged like that OFF?
:beatsme One possible answer is the "two Speed" drive motor option. And I guess the way to tell would be to pull a cover off a drive motor and see what's there is for hoses. NOT counting the hose to the brake, with a normal single speed drive motor you should see 2 large hoses and 1 small hose (case drain). With the 2 speed motors you'll have 4 - 2 large hoses and 2 small hoses. Again, not counting the brake hose. I must admit however that I'm a little confused about whether we're talking solenoids or solenoid valves.
I'm looking at the solenoid valve assy in the first pic of post #231. Thinking it's the hi drive solenoid valve, but it has 2 coils on it. I don't see anything like that on the electrical schematic. That's the valve I was asking if you've seen before.
I've never seen that setup on a 40F either. I'm thinking it's a dump valve for the other bang-bangs and a high drive valve. Valves with an angled plug on them like that top one in the picture always contain a pressure relief cartridge and usually associated with a function that has a lock-out. There are no lockouts on a 40F. In post 225, the second picture shows a three section bang-bang valve bank with a dump. Three sections are not enough to run a 40F. Let's say they are Telescope, Steer, and basket rotate. Where's basket level? In the top picture of post 225 you can see the hoses leaving those 2 valves and heading behind the bulkhead the bang-bangs are bolted to. I think there could be another bang-bang back there......maybe.....which would explain the extra dump. :beatsme
LoL, those machines are way back in the cobwebs of my head to remember what components they had on them. :tong I noticed that relief cartridge in the solenoid on top, very much like the dump valve section you typically see on the bang valve stack of the H models and such. Didn't they make some 40F's that had a manual basket rotate? And therefore wouldn't need a solenoid valve for that function? Can't remember for sure.
It's the single speed motor, 2 large hoses and 1 drain + brake, and I think we can safely say "solenoid valves".
Of the 3 hoses connected to the valve with the "angled" plug (hi drive), one is from the pump, one to the tank and one to the dump valve for the proportional stack. the 3 proportional valves are drive, lift and swing. The other 3 bang bangs are basket level, telescope and steer. One other note, I think that this machine is a little older than the schematic shows since it's missing some things like the ammeter, horn, clogged filter light and emergency stop.
I've never seen a manual basket rotate, but you could be right. That would explain the missing valve. dbris - does your machine have basket rotate?
No, there is no basket rotate that I know of.
hello, i am new to this and i need wiring schematics for the jlg 40f also, did you get the wiring down,if so could you help me out of a bind, my lift ony goes up when you push the buttons on the controls,i was stuck in air a while,i got it runnen and couldn't waite to try it,took 20 min to get down,,same problem,someone played with wiring.thanks,,Adam..
Hi Adam, I'm certainly no expert but I'll send you the parts and service manual that OFF sent to me. There are some folks on this forum that have experience with the 40F and I'm sure that they'll be glad to help. Dave
Welcome to the site Is it only the boom up/boom down function that's acting up? Does it work from the ground controls ok? When you get the book from dbris, look through and pick out what brand of controllers & valves you have and let us know. It really helps with nailing down a problem.
could you email all the wiring for the bertea valve and controls to the bang bang valves,,to [email protected] thanks
i need diagrams of wiring please someone, for this jlg 40f lift,
Ok, you should have them now, good luck! Dave
can you help me find the jlg 40f lift wiring schematics? thank you...
thank you all for sending them,i got them,i'm still new to site and didn't check me mail,sorry,thanks again,,,,,,,,
Both dbris & I sent you the 40F wiring schematics, and I sent you the service/parts manual set. You didn't get any of that stuff?
i finally registered after reading all 18 pages of this post, wow i learned more than i was asking for. i have a jlg 40f works pretty good, just finished building a new fuel tank that looks like the oem, the rust in the bottom the bottom of the tank was over a inch thick and this was after pouring a couple of gallons of hydrocloric acid to clean the tank. so we built a new tank. had the govenor on the wisconsin engine go bad and the engine free rev'd i wired the throttle in place so we could move it. simple part and a cheap fix also had a problem with water getting into the cylinders via open exhaust pipe, had the starter rebuilt used "southeastern starter and alt in baxley ga. they do good work. everything works on this unit except the back up emergency/safety controls. all will work when the engine is running, on the ground and in the bucket, but when using the smaller electric back up pump they stop working except for the boom extend in/out. i can not even get the boom to come down when in th eair which should not require much hydraulic pressure from the small pump, the manuel hand valve for bleeding off pressure does work. ther are 2 wires that have been disconnected, but everything seems to work when the engine is running i am totally confused advise
welcome to the forum ems automotive. :usa which two wires are disconnected? Where are they located? When your working the emergency pump from the ground, you said it would work the telescope but not boom down. When your trying to work the boom down with e-pump from ground, does the pump sound different than when it is working telescope?
Thanks for newbie welcome thanks for replying, fyi i have driven by your place every spring when i go to the hot rod show at chillowee park in knoxville. Lets me restate the wires are cut, 1st wire goes into round cast iron cyl that looks like a filter near the large drive, rotate, lift valves these valves have the larger hydr hoses. 2nd wire: Ends behind the ground control panel and goes into the main electrical panel it is cut at both ends, but emergency panel works ok when engine is running and all function work with main pump. The e-pump sounds the same, the telescope moves very slowly i can bring it down but the emergency pump will not make the telescope go up, and the emergency pump can make the basket go side to side when operated from the basket. It sounds like the e-pump is trying to build pressure to restate: All the e-controls work with main engine pump e-controls with e-pump only telescope
Yep, you would drive right by us coming from Cleveland and going to Chilhowee Park ems automotive. I'm sure one of us could help you sort through your problem, but I'm not certain what your describing on my end. Any way you could take a pic of the wires in question. Also, can you tell what color they are? May not mean much as it's typical for wiring to get molested by shadetrees over the years, on a machine of this vintage, not unusual to see the wiring system look like Medusa's head. BTW, what type of proportional valves does your machine have, Bertea or Racine. You can see a pic of a Bertea proportional valve at post #35, and a pic of a Racine proportional valve in the first pic to the left at post #225.
Hi od1 Try calling JLG and tell them Ed from United Rentals in Ridgefield Park ,NJ shop K25told you to call .Or tell them yuare from United Rentals . Call JLG Support at 1-877-554-5438. Follow the promps ,push for service. They will helpyou out.
To: Atco the valves are racine the wire color is a plain dark blue, it has a medium lentgh so it kind of ends in the middle of the e-panel and the same in the main wiring box. This bluw wire follows the wiring harness from the e-panel to the main wiring box i did not find any spots on the wiring strips that were missing a wire. As far jury rigging the macine is pretty well intact as built by jlg. But the old e-pump was rebuilt at least once. I have replaced it with a new pump. ( i thought that was the problem)
Well, not sure ems automotive. I'm seeing a blue wire on the circuit for the swing circuit. Hmm. Still trying to get my head around your problem. Tell ya what, put your cursor over my member name at one of my posts, click on my name. It will take you to my profile. Click on the contact tab, and send me an email at my email address there. I'll try and email you the 40F parts manual. It has the schematics in the manual.
Hi all, don't want to hijack thread but I need to post three times before I can post my own problem with a jlg 40ha. Sounds like ATCOEQUIP is very knowledgeable and helpful. Thanks fro helping everyone.
Well, ya got your three posts in. Welcome to the forum ksp. :usa
Still trying to noodle through your problem ems. Let me see if I got this right. With engine running, all functions work proper from ground controls as well as platform controls. Boom up/dwn, telescope in/out, and boom swing rt/lt. All these functions work properly with engine running. Shut off engine. Turn on ignition switch at upper controls. Step on foot switch. Activate boom out toggle switch and emergency pump switch. It does boom out. Activate boom in toggle, emergency pumps is operating, but does not boom in. Same thing with boom up/dwn. Pump is operating, but boom doesn't go up or down. What about boom swing? Have you tried that? As for operation from lower controls using emergency pump, pretty much exact same thing as in platform, right? I don't want to get hung up on the blue wire for now. I'm thinking if it were an issue, it would affect things with engine running, which you have no problem. I can't help but think you have a voltage problem. Try this, just for the heck of it. Get either a heavy duty shop battery charger, or, a booster vehicle and some heavy duty booster cables. Connect charger or booster vehicle to your battery, activate charger or start booster vehicle so alternator of vehicle is charging. Try operating your emergency system on the machine then and see what happens.
yes you understand the problem,
LoL, I got ya, just ain't figured it out yet. :tong For the heck of it, try that booster thing I suggested and see what it results.
will try on fri or sat will advise
it was the bertea control board,the diodes where corroded,i just replaced them with matching diodes and everything works fine,thanks for all your help...
bertea control board,,the part number on bertea is 264363. i got help from www.mcsindustrial.com i will post more on part replacement circuit parts soon,thanks again all.......
the ground controls worked fine once in while cause the diodes where acting up,the basket would only decide to go up and not down,don't get stuck in air like i did..
New guy here Hi everyone, I don't mean to get in the way here, I just joined the forum a few days ago after reading quite a few postings. Very interesting and informative. I also have a JLG 40F that I could use some advice on. Leaky hydraulic pump is the main issue, otherwise the machine works very well. I don't have and can't find any of the parts manuals, schematics, or repair manuals. I'm trying to figure out what kind of pump is on the machine so I can get a seal kit or maybe a new/rebuilt pump. If anyone could offer some advice on this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
arjaytee What kind of jlg boom lift do you have ?What is the year and serial number ? You can go to jlg.com and download parts,repair and operator manuals for free.I work has a heavy equipment mechanic for United Rentals I may be able to help you.Can ask field rep and techs at work and look it up.Do you have pic of the pump you can post.
Manuals and schematics are no longer available from JLG website for the 40F tool king. Welcome to the forum arjaytee. :usa I can email you manuals and schematics for the 40F if you like. Need to know if you machine has the Racine or Bertea valves for schematics though.
I did try the jlg website, and found that the 40F manuals were not available. I think the machine is probably a 1977 or 78. The serial # is 733696. The machine has Racine valves on it. I sure would like to have the manuals e-mailed Atco!
Will do. They are PDF files and the parts manual is three seperate files to make them small enough to send them email. Do you want info sent to the email address you have in your member profile?
Hi Atco- Yes the e-mail in my profile is where I would like the files sent. Thanks
No problem arjaytee. I will begin sending them as I get a chance tonight. They will be in multiple emails so the size doesn't cause a problem in sending them.
Atco, I just checked my e-mail. I got the schematics and parts manuals you sent. They are great! Now I've got something solid to work from. Thanks for taking the time to get these to me.
Aye, still got another parts manual page coming yet. They purty good size and had to be broken up to prevent size problems.
I have received it too. Good stuff. Thanks!
Your welcome. As for your pump, been too long since I've worked on one to remember the brand of pump and specs. I remember it's a 3 stage gear pump, that's about it. I think I would remove it and start looking it over for any identification info and numbers. If nothing else, take it to a hyd/pump shop and see if they can tell what it is.
Jlg 40f ATCOEQUIP Can you send me the schematics and manual you sent to arjaytee.Please send them to [email protected] .It would be big help to have the information on these.
Sure, just give me a little time. Since your a road tech, I'll also send the schematics for 40F with Bertea valves.
Good memory on the pump, it is a 3-stage unit. I did find some numbers on the mounting flange after power washing it. I'm going to try a google search to see what I get. It looks like pump removal will be necessary. Leaking around the pump input shaft I think.
If you have a leak at pump input shaft, you may get lucky and simply need a new seal. Be prepared though, in many cases, the seal is leaking because it has excessive pressure on it from worn pump end plates or shaft bushings. Hope you get it sorted out.
Thank you Pual for sending over the files.Let me know if you ever need any info I have a lot of stuff im my laptop and in books that I can copy and send.
Your welcome, last PDF of the parts manual on its way.
I am working on a 40F with only 2 problems I know of so far. (1) boom rotation problem. The boon will turn clockwise but not counterclockwise, I don't think it is in the basket controls. (2) I can't use the ground controls because when I flip the switch to ground controls the engine shuts off. If anyone can email me the wiring diagrams and parts info. I need joysticks, where is the cheapest place to order them?
Welcome to the forum TRbond. :usa Do you have Racine or Bertea control valves?
I will have to check the valve type. Can you email me info for both?
Another 40F I have used my JLG 40F for some projects, and now it's for sale, since a local guy wanted to get rid of his 4wd lift. The 40F is amazingly solid and well built, to me. As with any low priced machine, there are a few little things to fix, but the new parts are worth close to what i'm asking, $2750 in Florida, with help loading/driving onto truck. Anyway, one of the things I've been wondering about is why sometimes I have to blip a function, such as platform level, in order to get the swing or lift function to work. The valves for all the proportional functions were replaced with new bang bang valves in a parallel D5 block, (I still have the proportional controls, but there was a leak and nobody in my small town wanted to fix them). The pressure filter was similarly unknown to my NAPA store and my local hydraulic shop, so I put in a generic25 gpm return filter instead. I have thought that there might be some back pressure that is tending to hold the holding valves, which is relieved when I blip another function on the same dump valve. Or is it the dump valve leaking? You guys really know your stuff, and I'm just a farm handyman. I have an expensive copy of the JLG manual, but it leaves a lot out, and like you said, has some very challenging small print in the electrical schematic! I have learned a lot from reading here, and want to thank those knowledgeable folks who contribute their time to this publicly accessible forum. The internet was originally conceived for this kind of research, I think, although they may not have envisioned heavy equipment at first!
Also TRbond, what kind of "joysticks" (controllers) do you have? Bertea has oval rubber boots Racine has round rubber boots PQ has no boots. The level comes out the side of round topped casting
Just checking to see if you're going to forward the diagrams OFF. I don't want to send them if you already have. Welcome to the forum flhayman. :usa Are you saying you removed the proportional control valves and replace them with a bang valve assembly? Haven't seen that before. Your blip thing, do you have to blip level or basket rotate to get the drive to work as well, or is it just to get lift and swing to operate? Just making sure I'm hearing you right.
I would have but I had all the digrams and manuals loaded on a 2 gig memory stick laying on my desk at work.......and some wonderfull person stole my memory stick. If you can, please do.
Oh man...that sucks! So, your saying...you originally sent the diagrams to me...and now you need me to send them back, eh? LMAO! I'll get 'em back to ya in the next few days mate. TRbond, I'll email you the diagrams, all of them if necessary, but it would really be good to send you the diagrams for the type of valves you have because the Racine and Bertea are very different.
Are you saying you removed the proportional control valves and replace them with a bang valve assembly? Haven't seen that before. Your blip thing, do you have to blip level or basket rotate to get the drive to work as well, or is it just to get lift and swing to operate? Just making sure I'm hearing you right.[/QUOTE] Yes, the propo valve box didn't work right, couldn't find anybody to look at them around my town. The shops gave me quotes of many $$$ for new valve banks, so I ended up with regular solenoid valves, which work reliably. Now for the problem I brought up......This mod did work without having to blip anything for about 20 hours. The swing function was scary at high throttle, so I added a vernier restrictor to the line, which also worked fine. The drive forward and reverse, actuating the brakes, all was perfectly funtional and worked smooth enough to me. At first, the boom lift (and descend) was intermittent...I could hear the 4 way valve for boom lift switch, could hear the circuit go into relief, but no movement. I accidentally found that blipping the platform level allowed the boom lift to work fine! My V.O.M. meter says that the dump valve is getting signal at the same time as the valve....I wired in a buzzer to help me with this troubleshooting. The circuit originally didn't seem to have a return line filter other than a mesh one, if my memory is correct, which is why I added the generic spin on filter recommended by my shop in town. Holding valves were my first suspicion, but now it does it on the swing function, which makes me think it's more global than the individual holding valves. Speaking of modifying the propo valves, I was told that a shop had, for the sake of expediency after giving up on multiple issues with a similar machine, replaced all the DC propo valves with mechanical hydraulic valves, routed up to the basket and back! Lotta hoses, I imagine. One of the previous posts mentioned taking valves apart and cleaning them in place, maybe you could elaborate on that procedure? Thanks again for your reply.
Oh my, well that's a lot to noodle through. Problem I would have working through this one is that things have now been changed from original design and components. That doesn't mean I can't work, only means we're not working on original machine components. What kind of original proportional control valves did it have, Racine or Bertea? Is the new valve body an open center, stacked 4-way valves simply operated by solenoid coils? Are you using a new dump valve for the new control valves, or using the original one? Does it do the same thing from platform and ground controls? And this is the one that really puzzles me; "At first, the boom lift (and descend) was intermittent...I could hear the 4 way valve for boom lift switch, could hear the circuit go into relief, but no movement. I accidentally found that blipping the platform level allowed the boom lift to work fine!" Ok, it happened on boom up as well as boom down. Dump valve activates, sends oil to the control valve sections, but you don't get boom movement, instead pops open relief. That sounds like it's a closed center valve and the boom up/dwn spool did not react. If the spool didn't react on an open center valve, it wouldn't pop open relief, oil would simply flow through the valve body to tank. And if the spool did react, but boom wouldn't move, instead popped relief, are you sure the relief isn't set too low? Maybe not building enough pressure to unlock holding valves? I'll try and work with you all I can on this one, but this is a very unusual set up now. As for the cleaning of valves, I was referring to common problems of Bertea valve operation. The smallest grain of dirt in the valve servo can make them do goofy things. I don't think your going to have a problem with that with the set up you have.
Scissor Lift Incident Enquiry Hi I am a Safety Manager in Sydney Australia. I was wondering if anyone has ever experience an controlled or unpredicted Roll Back is a scissor lift whilst manoeuvring them on an incline. I am currently investigating a very serious accident where a young worker was crushed and is still in a coma. I don't believe he is a fault but that the machine roll back on him on whilst on an incline and crushed him between the handrail and a structure. I need to get the knowledge of others who operate these machine to let me know if this 'Roll Back' is known of as I cant speak to the operator (an may never be able to) to find out exactly what happened. Thanks for any help Regards Lloydy
For sake of clarity, what do you mean by "roll back". Did the machine tip over? Or did it roll (free wheel) down a grade? Was scissor lift raised? Or in the lowered position? What type of scissor lift was it, rubber tire, 4wd/2wd, articulating axle, rough terrain machine? Or was it a slab lift, cushion tire, 2wd, with rigid frame? Also, you should check the operators manual for the machine, it will tell you the maximum grade that the machine would work safely.
I have to be cautious of the detail due to legalities, but the scissor was an electric powered 2wd, machine with a reach of approximately 4m. It was operating going up an concrete ramp incline with a very high frictional surface of about 14degrees and well within the operators manual limits. It was in a lowered position. The roll back can defined as a free wheel backwards of some distance before the brakes brought the machine to a halt. When tested on flat ground the machine performed within the manufacturer specified braking distance.
I understand, and I wouldn't want you to offer info that is critical to investigation. It sounds like your describing a slab machine. Without knowing the machine, I can't offer much about the brakes except to say many slab machines use a locking pin on the drive wheels. If that pin didn't engage, and the machine started rolling, once it picked up some speed it's unlikely the brake pin would engage to stop the machine. But, if all things were in proper order, the drive motors should have caused enough resistance to rolling to allow brake pins to engage. One thing you might check would be if the machine had a "free wheeling valve" opened. The free wheeling valve is for towing a dead machine by allowing the oil in the drive motor circuit to recirculate allowing motors to turn and be towed. You've got quite a task with this one, it's not going to be easy for you to determine exactly what happened and what was the cause.
Yes it is very complex. The free wheeling valve appears to not have been used. During testing I also observed that the machine could not operate on this ramp without either wheel spinning or stalling. the batteries have been checked have been checked and were fully charged. The tests strongly indicate that the machine must have been pushed or pulled to make it up the ramp. I am also curious to know whether being pulled or pushed ,without the free wheel valve opened, could effect the hydraulic pressure in any way that may affect the brakes given that if the machine may have been pushed faster than the drive wheels could spin.
Wait a minute, if it was being pushed, or being pulled, how could it have free wheeled? You noticing the machine could not pull this grade by itself is more telling than anything. You mentioned either wheel spinning or machine stalling, was it the same wheel that would spin each time? The stalling is important if your certain that the grade was within, or less, than what mfg stated it would grade. But this can be caused by a number of things; faulty drive motor, failed o-ring seals on free wheeling valve, failed or improperly adjusted drive relief valve, failed o-rings on drive relief valve cartridge. Can you at least say what brand and model the machine was?
Thanks again for responding. The originals were Racine. So, the replacement block is a block in parallel for pressure and tank lines. The circuits that are, after some time, giving me trouble are 3 position, spring centered, valves, with A and B closed, and P open to T at rest. The drive motor valve, also on the block, and never acting stuck, is literally called a motor valve, I think the work ports remain open to tank when the solenoid is deenergized, in case it was to freewheel. SInce the brakes do work, it doesn't freewheel at all, though. So, in retrospect, it may be that the motor drive, which always works fine, but acts closed to pressure at rest, doesn't develop back pressure downstream of the valve when not energized. Of course, if the dump valve is 100% diverting pressure from the block, there shouldn't be any pressure at the valve block until a work switch is pressed. I've toyed with the idea of slightly delaying either the valve signal or the dump valve signal to see if that helps but haven't found a super short delay relay to experiment with. As you might have guessed, machines fascinate me and I took this machine on as a hobby/learning project, and hurricane rebuilding tool (no insurance). The strange part is that the problem creeped up on me, and the valves are seemingly eager to move at all times. It's entirely possible that the work valves should not be closed at rest on those functions like swing and lift, but it did all work for some time. Nobody could tell me if the Racine valves were open center or not, including JLG. Yes, I tried cranking up the relief valve, which was set at 1500 by the factory (Prince, I think). It is upstream of the new valve block, since there are no integral reliefs in the block, just a simple drilled manifold. I counted revolutions tightening the spring, adding pressure until I saw it didn't help, then turned back the spring pressure the same revolutions of the wrench flat to where it theoretically is back to 1500. It normally will effortlessly raise the main boom even at idle and full extension horizontally, if it isn't sticking. When a dump valve is intermittent, even with good current and ground connections, would you take it apart right there, or replace it, or what? I know what the JLG shop would do, but I wonder what experienced, rational mechanics would do on an old machine that isn't worth much. Just wondering in case it turns out to be the case. It is the one that was on the machine, although it looks much newer than the old Racine valves. Do you happen to know the flow through the Racine valve block? In other words, was it supposed to be open center when deenergized? the work ports totally isolated at rest, or going to tank? Thanks again for sharing your experience.
The JLG 40 Boom Lift Delimma I have bought a 80F. It had not been moved, only started occasinally in the last six years. This forum has helped me a lot. Atcoequip suggested Eric at Bestline Equipment in Shippensburg. Eric is good and has helped me a lot. Eric really knows these units and helped me get parts when the "local dealer" was of no help whtsoever. I have most of the hydralic issues solved but have electrical issues yet to resolve so I do need a wiring diagram. If anyone has wirig diagrams for the 80F I sure would appreciate having a copy.
You're in luck. The company I work for used to have an 80F and we still have most of the diagrams for it. It was a Racine 4 section propotional with Racine controllers. I should also have info for a 80F with Moog/Moog as we had one of those for a short time. If you'll please post again with what brand of valves and controllers you have, I'll dig out some schematics and get them scanned into PDF's Oh, and Welcome to the forum
I'm emailing some manuals to you flhayman. The A and B ports for boom functions should be blocked from connection to tank when spools are centered and coils not energized. I'm not certain about the original valve arraingement, but I'd wager a guess that the valve body was an open center type, meaning, oil flowed through valve body from port P to port T when no functions are being operated. As for the dump valve, doesn't your machine have two dump valves? One for level, rotate, and steer valve body and one for lift, swing, and drive valve body? If so, are the two dump valves alike? If they are, try switching the dump valves and see if that makes your problem go away.
The 40F Boom Lift Dilemma The 80F I have has the Racine 4 section propotional with Racine controllers.. It also has the Deutz motor. I have all the ground controls working but the controls on the platorm do not work. Also does anyone know of a supplier of 3000 pound working pressure 3/8 inch hose that you can use reuseable fittings? I plan on replacing all the boom hoses and I also plan on running an air line up to the platform so I can use air tools if need be.
I haven't purchased from them yet, but looked over this website a number of times and it seems they have a good handle on hyd stuff. Might contact them and see what they offer. http://www.discounthydraulichose.co...&Click=13051&gclid=CJbm46Ta-6MCFdhA2godpQ0oHA
Thanks for the manual pdf's and the advice. I hadn't thought about switching the dump valves. You're right, there's one for each valve bank, and they are freestanding, not built in to the valve blocks. Those JIC fittings seem to tolerate being taken on and off pretty well, so if I can find enough slack to try that, I sure will. One other change that was made was that I replaced the aux. power pump and motor with a single 12v pump. After I had the original dual section pump rebuilt, and it still wouldn't turn when power was applied, I put the new 1gpm pump on, and it worked great. However, since it would spin backward when the main engine would energize that bank, I added a one way check valve. The line to the second bank was simply capped, since I had enough controls to get down and didn't know how it would work if I Y'd them together from the single output of the new, single pump. The original must have had 2 integral one way valves, since both sections were plumbed straight to pressure. Would the 2 banks be able to be Y'd together to the single aux. power pump with one way valves on each line? Once more, let me thank you all for contributing your efforts to help people and add to the body of knowledge on the internet. So often, searches for useful information lead to sites that are nothing but click-through generators. As you may know, this forum is found near the top of Google results for JLG40F, which is great.
I assume your trying to figure out a way to connect telescope, rotate, level, and steer valve body to single output emergency pump. All you need is a three way solenoid valve. Here's a link to the type of valve I'm referring to, http://www.hydraforce.com/Solenoid/Svsp3w.htm#SVxx-30 Connect aux pump output line to port 2. Connect port 1 to line that tee's into lift, drive, swing valve body supply line. Connect port 3 to line that tee's into telescope, rotate, level, and steer valve body. In this arrangement, with solenoid not powered up, whenever you use aux pump it will supply oil to lift, drive, and swing. You have to power up the solenoid to operate telescope, rotate, level, and steer. This is where your going to have to add some wiring. The trick is powering up the solenoid only when operating aux pump, and only when operating telescope, rotate, level, or steer switches. Your going to need a couple of Bosch type cube relays and connect them to circuits in the lower master box, not lower control box. I'm thinking wiring it up something like this, this way when you select any of the telescope, rotate, level, or steer functions and operate switch for aux pump, you switch the 3 way valve to send oil to these functions instead of lift, drive, and swing valves.
That valve looks like my dump valve, and also like some of the selectors they use for switching functions on front loaders of tractors. The way you suggested, then I could wire the slave relay to also energize only when the aux power relay is powered, and the second valve stack is needed. The first valve stack would get flow with the valve at rest. Pretty clever. Thanks again for the assistance!
You got the idea. Look at your wiring schematic, 24 is the circuit that powers the bang valve dump relay, just tap into it with another wire to first relay. 8 is the circuit that powers the aux pump relay, same thing, tap into it at the terminal strip, and use it to power up the second relay. This way, when you select telescope and aux pump, it switches the three way valve to send oil to telescope.
Thanks ATCOEQUIP for the suggestion of Discount Hose. I ordered hose Saturday and received it Wednesday. I saved about $200 over the Parker Store price on 186feet of 1/4 hose and 82 feet of 3/8 hose. iwas well satisfied and would reccommend them
Lots of info in this one thread, I should probably print it out and put it in the troubleshooting section of the manual. My question is, how much different is the JLG 40 from the 40F. Looked at one a while back and it appears very similar but one thing that I did see different is it does not have a case drain from the travel motors and they are blowing shaft seals. I told the gentleman that I did not want to work on it unless I had a manual or at least some schematics ect. Does anyone know of or have info on a 40? How did they number these? Did they start with the 40 and then go to the F and G and H and so on? Thanks to all who contribute to HEF, it's very much appreciated.
The oldest machines I've seen were called "C" as in 40C or 60C. After that it was the "F" series, then the "G", then the "H", followed by the "HA" and from there they split into many different configurations & models. Any chance you could get a serial number off the JLG 40??
Serial number is 710574. Thanks
Yup, JLG Model 40, build date 30/02/1974. :notworthy
I have a 40f I am working on. I have bought a 40 f with alot of problems. I have got just about everything working with the exception of the travel motor brakes and basket functions. The wiring in the basket is a basket case. Most functions have been by passed and wired togeather. I am trying to get it figured out but a wiring schematic would really help me as I am a mechanic but wiring is not my speciality. I seen your post and was hoping you could help; I would be very greatful. I hope you still are monitor this blog!
LoL, we're still here superdave, welcome to the forum. :usa We can provide you with electrical schematics, do you have Bertea or Racine valves on your machine?
re 40f Racine, I don't Know what year it is but if I had to guess I would say late 70's early 80's. I also hope to figure out how to wire up the back-up emergency hyd pump. wow you suprised me I didn;t even Know if this form was still being monitored.
Sorry about any delay. I am using my laptop but e-mails go to my wifes computer.
Welcome Superdaveweld! Your files are on the way
wow thanks to atcoequip and off. I really appreciate the the wiring diagrams and other information treasures that you both have sent me; they will make getting this machine going a lot easier. I just need to figure out how to print the schematics out in sections so my poor eyes can read them more easily. PS THANKS AGAIN GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi superdaveweld I just joined the Forum yesterday with a leaking boom problem on my JLG 40F which brought me to this thread. It looks like atcoequip has solved your schematic needs. Before redoing the electrics I recorded the existing schematics (in sections) - let me know if these would help you as well.
LoL, it's our super secrect super powers dave. :tong Well, actually it was OFF the delivered the schematics. Welcome to the forum dblazer. :usa
Hi ATCOEQUIP - thanks for the welcome. I need some help finding a picture explaining the inside workings of the extending boom on a
Need anything on the JLG 40G. Eugene Hanson
boom on a...what? I don't have any info on a G quak102, OFF might have something.
Hi ATCOEQUIP - sorry about the incomplete post. I need some help finding a picture which will explain the inside workings of the extending boom on a JLG 40F. I'm especially interested in hearing about any cautions to watch out for when dissasembling the boom to fix a leaking cylinder. Thanks
I looked though all my stuff & came up empty for schematics or manuals. All I have is a bunch of "build sheets" listing materials used to build certain parts of a 40G. Nothing really useable. As far as wiring goes, the 40F FWD PQ/Racine should be very similar. It's just a 40F with a sliding hood, right?
Well, I could send you the parts and maintanence manuals, that way you could get a feel on what you're working on. The worst part of removing the boom on an aerial lift is dealing with the basket. If you leave it on, your just fighting with it being top heavy during whole process. Then you have the electrical cables, in most cases you have to disconnect the cables from the terminations at the platform so you can disconnect the power track to remove boom sections. What I typically do, if the wires colors are clear and visible where wires connect to terminals in platform box, is simply cut the wires a few inches back from terminals, leaving a short stub of colored wire connected to terminal strip. Then remove the cable from the grip at control box. When re-installing basket, you simply crimp new terminals on the wires and remove one colored wire at a time putting correct wire that matches the stub on the terminal strip. Aside from that, it's just a bit of a project removing boom sections. You typically remove all outer wear pads, top bottom and sides. Disconnect the extend/retract chains where they connect to bottom of main boom. Remove the pin that attaches telescope cylinder to main boom, then pull the mid and fly sections together. Be sure and pull on the retract chain as the sections are coming out, that would be the chain going toward rear of machine inside main boom section. Probably some other details I'm not thinking of, but I'm confident they'll make themselves known. :tong
Thank you ATCOEQUIP for your detailed help! Yes, I'd like you to send me the manuals - how do I pay and give you contact info? The basket is no longer a problem, I replaced it with a simple adapter to which I can also attach a bunch of different things like forks, backhoe, small dozer blade, hopper, etc. also the control panel can be easily removed so I shouldn't need to cut the wires. I'm not sure which end of the chain you mean by "going to the rear of machine" Is that the end that is farthest from the machine? Your confidence in the ability of other details to make themselves known speaks of a lot of mechanical experience
Sent the manuals to the email you have on your profile, let me know if they didn't come through. Well, I suppose it is confusing trying to distinguish front and rear of the machine. :tong Let's put it this way, underneath the main boom, near where the telescoping sections come out, you should see the attachment of the extend and retract chains for the tip section. When removing boom sections, you have to disconnect these chains from that attachment point. Then, when you start pulling the mid and tip sections out, you have to pull on the chain that goes into the main boom section toward the engine compartment of the machine. That's the retract chain. Pulling on that chain prevents it from bunching up in a knot when pulling sections out. Once you have the sections pulled out past that hole in bottom of main boom section, it will pull chain back into hole. Keep pulling sections clear of main boom. Then retract chain can be removed from main section. I don't think it's necessary to pull tip section from mid to remove telescope cylinder. On page 2-39 of parts book, you loosen or remove setscrew #3, then drive out pin #2. This should allow the telescope cylinder and extension box to come out of the rear of sections. Been a very long time since I've worked on one of these though, can't remember for certain.
Wow! Thank you! I received the manuals and a quick look shows a lot of useful information. Thanks also for your reply especially for pointing out that the fly and mid-section do not have to be separated. As you can tell I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before beginning. Especially where to park the F40 so I will be able to reach where needed with a forklift. I'd like to keep you posted - it may be a while before I begin. Thanks again for all the help!
LoL, well, I didn't say that the mid and fly doesn't have to be separated. I said I think it doesn't have to. It's been a long time since I've worked on a 40F, a lot of junk cluttering up my memory.
knock on wood I knock on wood that my telescope in not leaking yet. Thanks to all of your fellows help with wiring diagrams I just about have the eletrical issues solved. I have moved on to the brakes. I disassembled one of the cyls for the drive brakes and found many pieces of disk springs. I have been scratching my head and setting here all day with a caliper making measurements. Does any one know how many springs these cyl's take or the stack orientation? The only way that makes sense to me is a series parallel stack. Jlg actually has cyl.s available but they are perty proud of them also $541.00 ea. In another note does anyone know if the swing brake is the same as the travel brakes, looks inentical?
Can't remember to be certain, but I'm thinking the brake cylinders had belleville washers. And it seems I remember there was a trick to taking those things apart and putting them back together. I don't think the brake for the swing uses the same type components. You might send a PM to OFF, he might have a better memory of these components.
I used to stack the washers kinda like this - )()()()()()()( to get the best spring effect out of them. One thing to rememeber is they are spring applied/hydraulicly released which is backwards to most brake thinking. I found the best way to adjust them was to get a co-worker to bring the machine up against 2 good chock-blocks in drive, then while the brakes are released (still in drive) tighten the pad adjusting screw till there was minimal clearence between the pads and rotor. Like maybe 0.010 to 0.020. Just enough to 'feel" some movement. Then release the drive controller and you should have maximum clamping force. Brakes on the 40F were not as good as the multi-disc wet type found on later models, but they worked. We got into the habit of checking brake adjustment on every service.
First let me say how much I appreciate this forum for the help I've received. I have the boom of the JLG 40F disassembled. I hope to be able to help anyone else with this. There are some gotchas and knowing the balance point of the boom parts may help. I see that the clevis eye of the cylinder has to be cut off in order to remove the shaft seal assembly. Has anyone made a fixture to re-weld this? If not I'll make one and it'll be available. I'll need some JLG parts - cylinder seals and wear pads also I'm replacing the boom's wire and hydraulic lines. ATCOEQUIP are you a JLG distributor? And a point of etiquette - is it OK to continue posting to this thread or should I start a new thread? - thanks
Well, IMO, I think you should post it on this thread. This thread has become a resource that's loaded with JLG 40F information that is easy for other readers to locate, especially those with a 40F. BTW, you don't cut the rod eye off to replace seals, you take the cylinder apart, then remove a nut that retains the rod piston on the rod, then the cylinder gland (head) slips of the cylinder rod. As far as I'm concerned, whenever I go through the trouble of taking a boom apart to repair a leak from the cylinder then I'm going to replace every seal in that cylinder because I don't want to have to go back in there for a while. In my case with the parts, I have a local Parker Hannefin seal distributor and they typically can provide me with most any type seal. Hoses I get made at local hose shop. The wire cable, that's a different story. First of all, it ain't cheap. Nothing with copper in it is cheap anymore. But in my experience, after making many searches for suppliers of cable, it seems JLG will either match their price, or many times JLG is cheaper. I have a theory this is because JLG purchases miles of wire cable in a years time to build machines so they probably get it at a very good quantity price. The thing is, you have to use a cable that is designed to flex for many cycles. Typical SO, SEO, or Tray cable won't work in that application. Am I a distributor? Nope, just someone who has been working on them for years. I haven't worked on every model they have made, but a good many of them. As for parts, it's generally best to work with someone close to you. That is, if you have a good dealer that's a pleasure (not a chore) to work with. Most equipment rental stores are JLG distributors. If you don't have a good distributor, the outfit I buy parts from is in Shippensburg PA, not far from JLG. I've been buying parts from them for years and Eric and Jeremy knows the machines and parts well. 1-888-321-3217
40F Hydraulic Question Hi everyone, It's been a while since I posted anything, but I have a question about hydraulics on my 40F machine. I installed a new pump and coupling (old pump was leaking badly at input shaft seal). All machine functions seem to be working correctly, but the engine is loaded with all controls in neutral position. When I shut the engine off, it sounds like a rush of hydraulic oil into the tank. I don't have a lot of hydraulic experience, but I'm wondering if there could be air somewhere in the system keeping a valve in the wrong position, from when I had the hyd. lines off for pump replacement. I removed the hyd. tank for easier access to the pump and quite a bit of oil drained from the lines that were removed from the tank. That's what has me wondering if there could be air in the system and what I have to do to purge it. Something else I could use, would be the maintenance manuals for this machine. I have the parts manuals which Atcoequip was so generous in supplying. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
You've got mail Arjaytee I can't see it being air in the system, sounds more like maybe a hose ended up in the wrong place when you re-installed the tank. The service manual has hydraulic schematics, they should help you track it down.
40F Hydraulics Thanks OFF for the service manuals you sent so quickly. I'll go through it and see if I've got something routed the wrong way.
40f brakes Thanks for the info took both drive brakes and swing brake apart. It looks like the springs are stacked the way you describe at least in the swing brake, they were in good enough shape to see stacking. That was before I had to heat them for disassembly. I will replace all springs and seals. Jlg wanted $ 550.00 ea so I am having them bored and sleaved at a machine shop. parts will be finished next week sometime. I am now tring to locate a reasonably price dule crossover relief lock valve combo as the one for the basket rotate is missing. Do you know what the relief for rotate is supposed to be? I could not find the spec. in the manual, I am guessing under 1500 psi. Correct me If I am wrong but this means that the lock valve you would use would have to be set less than our relief, like 800 to 1000psi ? I am tring to get my head around how they incorprated both of these togeather and made the work. In my thinking the lock valve is supplied by the control valve unless you broke a hose in which case where is the basket really going to anyway? I want to fix this safe and right though. Do you have any ideas on valving?
I think your describing using a holding valve for a hyd component, such as a cylinder to prevent drift or cylinder dropping in case of failed hose. The basket rotate motor really doesn't need holding valves, but it does need crossover reliefs in the circuit. The main reason would be if you were to hit something with the basket, like when your telescoping out. If you were encounter an obstruction with the platform, the crossover relief would allow the basket to rotate instead of damage or break basket components. I can't remember what the relief setting should be. You might find one at a reasonable price from Bailey Hydraulic, http://baileynet.com/index.php
Better than that.......I have a new one sitting on the shelf collecting dust. JLG #4640154 I love getting rid of dead stock
crossover relief got my attention! Wow, ok got my attention now. How much is that dude worth to you? I can buy a new prince crossover relief for just under $70.00 but from what I can tell the one jlg used incorprated load locks as well.
hyd parts Good site for hydraulic parts. another one if you are interested is www.surpluscenter.com they have a little of everything.
JLG 40F boom leak repair
Hello Guys, I'm new to the site and have a 40f. It keeps on running and is a great help. I hope I'm jumping in properly here but I'm having 2 electrical problems in the basket. I have Bertea valves with the Wisc. V-4. I have read all of the posts on here and see that this is the greatest forum. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give us.
Welcome to the forum demodude. :usa
welcome demodude. I am a new member here to. The guys here are an encylopedia of info on these old machines. I just about have my electrical problems worked out thanks in large to a couple of the fellas here. I was really going nuts, wiring not my strong point, but wiring diagrams where a great help. I think off can probably assist you with wiring issues good luck.
Welcome Demodude I sent you a set of Bertea wiring schematics for your 40F, hopefully they help you out. What kind of basket wiring problems are you having?
Wow...Thanks for the welcoming posts Hey Guys, First of all..."Off" thanks for the perfect pdf wiring diagrams. I'm going to print them up and compare them to my basket wiring. Friday the 40F is going to a job in the city without ''boom" and "swivel" basket controls. We figure we will operate it from the ground controls which work fine. THE STORY: One day the machine started lifting and swivel to the left when ground control was switched to basket controls. "boom and swivel" controls had no affect. All controls on ground work fine. We found that if we connected a hot jumper to the "clear" relay in the electrical box behind the hour meter it would close the relay and stop the ghost movement. but still have no boom and swivel at basket. Though we have checked for obvious loose connections we could have missed something as there is a lot of wiring on the unit. I pulled the 2 berteu controllers in question and thought about replacing them as the pot on one controller seemed loose. Till I found out they were about 550.00 each. The pots checked out with an ohm meter. Question: - Should there be approx 4 to 6 volts at the 2 coil terminal screws when controllers are in the neutral position? (with no wires attached to these) - I have a 12 volt reading coming back through one of the coil wires when it is not connected to the controller unit. I felt that was weird (controllers in neutral ) -One of the electrical components (resister or diode) seems to get very hot on boom controller. I have tried to use some of the previous threads to help me get to this point but welcome you thoughts. Thanks again everyone.
BTW...The "drive" controller works OK...and the toggle switches for the other controls seem fine for now...Thanks again.
Hi demodude, go back to page 7 of this thread and read post #99. It will give you an idea of how the PQ controllers work with Bertea valves.
Good afternoon. It appears it is very difficult to find any info on the JLG 40G. I believe you had mentioned it was close to the 40F. Could someone please email me all info/schematics you have on either one? I really appreciate the help.
Welcome jyuska The 40G was a fine little machine. Not many of them around so info is hard to find. You've got mail.
It would be really, really, nice to see some pictures of a 40G
I have a 30G which looks just like a 40F and am having a problem with the racine proportional controls for boom lift, rotate, and drive. Boom up works great, boom left works great, drive reverse works great. Boom down, boom right, and drive forward works very slowly unless i use another function to "speed them up". Boom down works if I boom left just a little, boom right works if I boom up just a little, etc. Any idea whats going on...thanks for any help.
Welcome to the forum ohiojoe. :usa I have very little experience with Rexroth control valves, not sure what's causing your problem. Try sending an email to OFF, he has much more experience with them. You can click on his name at the left of his posts and access contact info for him.
Sorry, I meant Racine valves. They are PQ controllers for lift, swing, and drive. hope this makes the solution to the problem easier.
No worries. If you do in fact have Racine valves and PQ controllers, you should try and send OFF an email. He only pops in here ocassionally and he knows far more about Racine valves than I do. We'll do what we can to resolve your problem.
Welcome ohiojoe Very interesting problem. I'll dig into the schematic tomorrow and see if I can help pinpoint the problem. I just got home after driving 12 hours and my head is spinning hopelessly in neutral. ointhead
LoL...rub the bottle and the genie shows up! Bah ha ha haha :tong
Ohiojoe, I'm thinking it's electrical just because the controllers work in one direction and that pretty much rules out hydraulic issues. Looks like the power and ground wires to the controllers are running in series. The power is a yellow 16ga wire, the ground is a brown 16ga. Check those wires at each controller and makes sure they are in good condition and well connected to each controller & where they terminate in the basket. Specially the ground. With an ohm meter check resistance from the screw where the brown wire connects to each controller......to basket ground. It should read very close to zero ohms. Next, in the basket panel, on the connector strip, locate the following wires: (numbered from the left - numbers might be different but colours should be right) #4 green and #5 orange are the lift #6 blue and #7 blue/white stripe are the swing #13 red/white and #14 green/white are the drive with a volt meter connected on #4 and #5, basket control, engine off, ignition on, foot on deadman....you should see appox 6 volts as soon as the lift controller is moved from center. By moving the controller in one direction you should see the voltage smoothly increase to approx 9 volts by the end of it's stroke. Moving the other direction you should see the voltage decrease to about 3 volts by the end of it's stroke. Check that on all three functions using the correct pairs of wires for each. Let us know what you get.
Yes, my feelings also as these functions did work. I will check this evening if it stops raining. Can you send me schematics, as I have found some wires jumpered (not original) on the main control board? Oh, and here's a picture before I got it running.Thank you!
Thanks for the picture!! Looks like a 40F with a square base. That boom looks like it's only 2 sections rather than the normal 3 section. Schematics are on the way
Wow, I haven't worked on one of those, neat. Good gawd, it's got wheels/tires big enough for an 80 footer! Also looks like they used the Fairfield torque hub on the 40G. I notice it also has the power trak on the side of boom instead of on top of the boom like the 40F.
I can't explain this to make any real sense, just a wild thought, but I'd check the main ground (earth) connection for the Racine proportional valve coils, meaning take it loose and clean/check the terminals that make the ground connection.
Thank you OFF for the schematics. Verified the ground is good from each controller through basket and back to the main board. Voltages: Drive 3.96 centered, 6.87 forward, 0.6 reverse. Lift 3.89 centered, 6.63 up, 0.96 down. Swing 4.20 centered, 0.55 left, 6.75 right. It looks like the diodes on the lift and swing controllers maybe bad as they conduct in both directions. Do you have to remove them from the circuit to test them? Contacted the place I bought it from and they found a box full of books which goes with the lift, unfortunately none of them are an exact match for the 30G. Now I have manuals for a 30F and a 30GT . I will assume the schematics are the same.
Off: I also have a JLG 40G that I have been trying to get info on. Would you email parts and/or schmatics info you have? I really appreciate any help. Ken
We haven't found any info specific to the 40G yet, but I'll send you what we have on a 40F with Racine valves & PQ controllers. From what I remember it should be pretty close. And Welcome to the site
OFF: Thanks, I appreciate anything you can send me. A friend of mine and I are converting the lift from the Wisconsin v4 (gasoline) to the deutz f2l511 (diesel). One thing that we need to deal with are leaks in bottom weld of the fuel tank. Is there any safe way to seal fuel tank leaks after cleaning the tank of gasoline residue before filling with diesel fuel? Ken
Hi kenrob, if you're taking out a Wisconsin gas engine and installing a Deutz diesel, you're going to have to have a fitting in the fuel tank for fuel return line.
i just empty the tank, air it out, clean it good, weld or braze the holes, make sure you have fuel in, out, and vent. oh, i like to use a large fuel supply just in case.
60h Wiring schematic If you happen to have a wiring schematics for a 1987 60h with the ford engine i would
OFF Just bought a 40F any chance you can e-mail me a copy of the manuals you have? I have a problem it only wants to make right turns.. John
Welcome to the forum Stealth11. Get in three total posts and you'll become a Junior Member and lose the probationary status. I can send you electrical diagrams for your machine. Do you have Racine valves or Bertea valves? Also, have you set your profile to have forum members send you email?
I do not know which valves yet, it is pouring rain here in SoCal..and the machine is about 50 miles away...So I am reading this post so when I see it I will know. Yes, I have set the option to receive mail from members. Thanks for the super fast reply and welcome..
ATCO, Do you know the filter part numbers or have a parts manual? I know this thing has set a while and will need all fluids changed.. John
Tell ya what, I'll send you the parts manual PDF files, they have the wiring diagrams in it. As for the filters, If it still has the VH4D Wisconsin, filters for the engine are pretty common at an auto parts, inline fuel filter, spin on oil filter, and I think the air filter was an oil bath type, can't remember for certain though. Not for sure about the hyd filter in the tank, maybe an element you can get aftermarket, but may have to get that one from JLG.
Thanks so much...this is great..I was really worried about buying this old of a machine, but could not really afford anything else...
Hey John, you got a private message from me.
Welcome You're in luck, we had two 60H's, both with Ford LSG423 engines. One had Vickers porportinal valves, the other had Racine valves. Both had PQ controllers. Any idea which you have?
Jlg 40 fn Make: JLG Model: 40 FN Serial: 740187 Year: 1969 Valves: Racine We need to replace (2) of the solenoids because they are not powerful enough to push the pin. We are having trouble locating the Valve Part Number. It's 12V DC. The housing for the valves reads 253348-5 on top of each of the drive, up/down, and swing valves. The front of the racine valves reads 87 Pat. Pend 90 for the drive and 77 Pat. Pend 90 for the up/down and swing. Anyone happen to have any extras sitting around? Almost at the point of taking the whole housing off and bringing it to a hydraulic shop.
Welcome to the forum JLG40FN. :usa Can't be certain, but I think OFF may have some of those coils. BTW, have you checked the operating voltage coming to those coils? If you have considerable voltage drop in wiring to coils, it won't have enough energy to push the spools in. Just a thought
Thanks for the warm welcome. "...operating voltage coming to those coils? If you have considerable voltage drop in wiring to coils, it won't have enough energy to push the spools in." Will double check this on Monday, but fairly certain it's the copper winding in the solenoids that is bad. We had to repair all of the copper windings because someone had yanked all the wires out.
Welcome JLG40FN! That's an old girl you've got there for sure. When you say "push the pin" I take it to mean that the functions operate normally when you push the pins on the end of the valve solenoids? As Atcoequip said, I do have a box of new coils for those Racine valves.
OFF, please e-mail me with your ask on that box of Racine valves. [email protected] She is old, but looking good because she was just painted. Looking forward to seeing her move around the shop.
JLG40FN, I've got 4 new coils left and you're welcome to them for the price of postage. But before you go ripping into the valves, please disconnect the black & white wires that come from each spool and measure the resistance. I'm getting 21 ohms on the new coils.
We got 21.1 and 21.3 ohms resistance. Curious if you have any needle valves around. Also, earlier in this thread talk about an available manual that was scanned got me excited. Are the manuals and schematics still around, because we would love to acquire some to go with our equipment. I'll post some pictures in the next week.
Sounds like your coils are OK. I'll have a look around for pilot valve parts and get back to you. Yes, we have a 40F manual scanned in that I can send you and various electrical schematics. I'm guessing you'd have Racine controllers on a machine that old?? Round black knob, round rubber boot, kind of a metal 1/2 circle guide bar thing running along the shaft?? Let me know what controllers you have and I'll fill your Email buffer.
Yes, they are Racine controllers. The other ones read 23 & 18 ohms. Can't wait to get a copy of the manual and schematics. We just purchased a new printer last Friday.
my new toy jlg 40f hi all just had it delivered has bunch of problems need electric and hydro schematics. its a 1980 model problem 1 will steer right but very only after many try left. 2 boom will not swing at all. machine set for many yrs.
Welcome al0558! We have a set of manuals I can send you in PDF format. Just PM me your email adress and I'll start sending
it wont let me into your account or i just dont know how here is my e-mail [email protected] thanks for any help. looks like you guys are saving us a lot of time and $$ with this sight. thanks
OFF has been extremely helpful. He actually just sent me a newly scanned racine valve repair guide. It was the exact information that was needed. The service manual and schematics were very much appreciated too. He graciously sent some parts our way, new coils, and just asked me to pay the shipping. OFF has been a monumental resource.
thanks OFF just received the manuals, will look through them but i am sure i will need more help, like how to remove the main lift cylinder. thanks again
Always glad to help guys That's what this site is all about. And it's a two-way street - the guys here have helped me out many times too. When I found this site I was looking for ways to get rid of dead JLG parts stock without throwing it in the garbage or scrap bin. Thanks to you guys, I've been able to rid of quite a bit of stuff. I'm happy and helping people out at the same time makes it a double bonus
hi OFF can you tell me what are the parts i circled i think 1 is aux and 3 is main valves i dont know how to post pic. try this link http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/460/partsdiscription.jpg thanks al Hi al0558, I added your pic to your post so members don't have to bounce between two websites to view your pic and OFF's description in next post.
#1 is the Racine proportional valve bank, from the left the functions are drive, lift, swing #2 is the main junction box #3 is the Racine solenoid valve bank which control the other functions - telescope, basket level and basket rotate #4 is a the high pressure hydraulic filter There's another filter in the tank under that round access cover with the T-bolt on it.
hi OFF thanks for the info and post where is the switch for master level cylinder thanks
Are you talking about the switch that controls the basket leveling?
no its the one on the front axel you can see it on this link http://img200.imageshack.us/i/lift015.jpg/ and does anyone knows a good place to buy rebuild kits for the hydro cylinders
wow, I've never seen anything like that on a 40F before. Is it 4-wheel drive by any chance? There should be a valve on the bottom of the turntable someplace and ramp to push on the stem of the valve. it should work by allowing the axle to float only while the turret is centered over the wheels. Swing a bit and it locks the axle in place.
40ffr 4x4 yes it is 4x4, here is some more pic and name plate that states it is a 40ffr http://profile.imageshack.us/user/al0558/
What you circled here is a dump valve or posibly the high drive valve. I can't tell without following the hoses. Very nice machine. That was the cream of the 40F crop for sure. :cool2 I can't make pictures work either
hi OFF hope no rain by you in michigan it rains for past 3 days. you are wright i have the boom in the back and could not see the lever that engages the valve, so it is automatic more or less. what would be the easy way to remove repack the main lift cylinder thanks just reading through the old posts , do you still have the cards for the PQ controllers i think i will need one how much
You're in luck. I've got 2 PQ controller cards left. Is your main lift (boom) creeping down? It could be just the holding valve. How we test that axle is we drive one front wheel of the manlift up on a block (2 to 3") then swing off center, then drive off the block. The wheel that was on the block should stay in the air. If it comes down, you have a problem. No rain here, but we could sure use some. Nothing melts snow like a good rain.
when or if the rain ends i will try to switch the cards, is that the best way to check.
I am having a similar problem with my 40ha it will rev the engine when you move the joystick but will not go forward or backward. Had the controller checked it was bad so i put a new one on but am still having the same problem. it is a single controller for forward and reverse and toggle switches for the boom and steering controls. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks
hi off hope all is good. as you said i tested it and it works perfect. i can run the boom with the proportional valve by pushing the butten on the valve but it takes a second for it to pop back out wonder if its dirt in the system. can i put 12volt to it and the bam bam valves or is it lower voltage. how much do you want for the pq cards thanks al
Hi al0558, email me your address and I'll send you the cards @ no cost. I just ask that you pay the postage on them. You can put 12V to the bam-bam valves, but not to the proportionals. Do your functions work from ground control? where your proportional valve coils attach to the rest of the wiring hopefully you have a juction block. Testing there, between the two wires for each function - you should be seeing approx. 5 volts as soon as the controller moves off center. Moving the lever one direction should increase voltage from that center point - going the other way should decrease voltage from that center point. Wire colours down there should be blue & white/blue for swing. orange & green for lift. red/white & green/white for drive. You can also test this up in your basket control box after locating these same pairs of wires.
Hi all. I was recently hired to repair a JLG 40F that has been slpiced 7 ways from china and has also had the entire engine compartment painted so that none of the colors of the wires are visible. I've worked on lifts before but not this old. If anyone could help me with a schematic it would be greatly appreciated. I got the machine to drive, it steers and lifts but does not swing or telescope. I got the owner to pressure wash the unit so the oil and dirt caked solenoids were exposed and accessible. Any info on this would be a huge help. Thanks.
Hi Halfcican, does the machine have Racine or Bertea main control valves? Racine valves have two electrical coils per valve section, Bertea valves have a single electrical coil and manual control knobs on each section.
Hi ATCO, They are the Racine valves. It looks like there's been quite a few hands on the wiring of this machine over the years. It's got a butt splice spaghetti nightmare look to it with wires that lead to nothing and 3 other valves at the same time. Do you happen to have a schematic you could email me so i can properly rewire this mess?
Welcome Halfcican, If Atco hasn't already sent you what you need, Email me at [email protected] and I'll send you everything we have on the 40F
Just saw your response OFF, go ahead and send Halfcican the info. I know what I typically do on a 40F that the wiring has been butchered every way from Sunday, I don't even try to figure out the mess, it's a waste of time. Instead, it's get out the side cutters, rip it all out, and re-wire the machine. But that's just me.
That's pretty much what I intend on doing. Spending all that time trying to trace wires and figure out what someone else was thinking when when they decided to turn the wiring into a Picasso is not my thing. I greatly appreciate your time and help good sirs.
Are you going to replace the wiring cables going up the boom as well?
jlg 40ff hi all in the process of repacking the hydraulic cylinders and changing oil does anyone know the easy and safe way to change the main lift cylinder, and oil filter #. thanks
Well......you'll need to support the boom on something very solid while you work. Higher the better. The best way is an overhead crane if your shop has one, if not a vehicle hoist, a large mound of earth, or even the roof of a sturdy building. Be carefull, don't take any risks. You're directly in the line of fire if that boom should fall for any reason. I would try and leave the barrell of the cylinder in place, just undo the gland and remove the piston & rod, reseal it, checking the bore of course while it's opened up. If it's scored, you'll have to pull the barrell also. Hydraulic filter is JLG #2120055. I've never been able to cross that to anything. (if you're not in a big hurry for it, I can send you one )
thanks for the response. the machine is for my personal use i live on 15 ac.you know how it is you just need toys to keep us retires going and that is why everything is an the cheep. have some big trees i can chain and brace the boom too. dont remember if i sent you my address i will today just sand me the bill, just opend the steer cylinder and the oil that came out was brown dark not burnt just dirty so i think that the filters may be torn never saw that much dirt in hydro oil maybe that is why valves are not working properly. by chance you dont have any rebuild parts for the cylinders.
Update: Double Feed We are making progress, slowly. Our current issue is that on the controls when it is sent left it goes fine, but when sent right it's getting a feed going both left and right. The feed going right will work if the wire for the left is removed. This is the best I can think of to explain it.
saga continues, can anyone tell me if the yellow wire is connected to the black wire coming from the pq card and 2 brown from harness and #2 which wire i chk for voltage going from card to main terminal block and then to recine valves. thanks
I'm not totally sure what you're asking, but I assume you're still working on the swing control. The PQ output to control swing should be terminal #6 [blue] and terminal #7 [white/black].
hi their is 5 screws on one side 5 on other, how do i know which is which thanks
I could be misunderstanding, but I interpreted this as you're asking which two wires are outputs (from PQ controllers) that send signals to Racine valves. Unless someone has messed up the wiring, the two wires that control Racine valve for swing should be terminals #6 and #7 on main terminal strip at platform.
their is no terminal strip on the platform the wires go from pq terminals to the wire harness so i am trying to find terminals on the controller itself
Well, that makes a pot of fried apples. :Banghead If perchance the machine has the JLG 16/24 cable (harness) it should be a blue wire and a white/black wire. I don't know if the PQ cards are marked, but the blue wire should go to the +1 terminal on card, and white/black should go to C3 terminal. That's about the best I can tell you.
no i think its me i am learning as i go, and you guys are great to help us as much as you do. thanks
Learning is a good thing. OFF is far more familiar with the Racine valve machines. I have done more work on Bertea machines than Racine, I'm just not real familiar with the PQ controllers on those units.
Sounds like that machine has been heavily modified. The yellow wires are all ignition power, the brown are all grounds. The wiring should run from the controllers, down a tube to the basket control panel, through a double terminal strip and then down the boom to the main panel. You're looking for the 2 wires coming from the controller that aren't yellow or brown. They'll be blue, or orange, or green with a stripe. Those are the wires connected to the valves.
HI OFF you are wright the wiring was redone and colors dont match till i traced it to the 16-24 cable and it is as per schematic. but i get the 3 to 5 volt at those connections (white/blk and blue on the swing controller) when its in center position and the volts change when i move the lever but vary erratic, i checked the center switch on the controllers and it does work so i am thinking that its the controllers. did you get my e mail with the address.
Check your ground wires at the valve spools, make sure they are all making good contact.
Your package is on the way. 3 to 5 volts is good in the center position, the voltage should increase in one direction, decrease in the other direction when you move the controller lever. The increase/decrease should be fairly smooth too with no spikes to zero or battery voltage.
hi all problems at home stoped me in my tracks to do anything with the lift. i received the parts from OFF for which i am vary grateful people like you and all that are willing to share their knowledge and even $$$ are an inspiration to me and i am sure others. as soon as i can i will be back to bother you thanks again
Hi im new here and have a question regarding the weight of the lift i just weighed my machine (jlg 40f) and its about 15500 pounds and is a little to heavy for the weight im registered for so i was thinking about taking off some weights and i was looking at the picture of your lift and mine has two weight packs along the frame between the wheels and has a lot more counterweight and a bigger bucket do you know if yours is stock? or did they come with different weight capacity's? thanks
Welcome to the forum Remco. :usa Those weights are standard on all 40F machines, they're part of the counterweight system that keeps machine from tipping over, the weight capacity is the same on all those models, they didn't make them heavy or lighter capacity. I suppose you could remove the side weights to be able to reach transport weight, but then you'd have to either have another vehicle to transport weights, or make a second trip to retrieve them because it's not advisable to operate the machine without them.
thanks for the reply and the welcome. so i was looking on line at 40f pictures and theres lots of them without the side weights i actually only found one that did have the side weights like mine. so do you think they all were removed then? and all the machine weights i found were 12000 and mine is 15500.also if they are using them without side weights it seems like i should be able to as well what do you think?
Well, it's been so long since I've done anything with a 40F, not sure what to tell you. I did look in the service manual and the specs show the 40F weighs appx 10,000 lbs, doesn't mention anything about other machine weights like 15,000. Any way you could post a pic of your machine?
Hi, I've been reading this string and it is excellent. I've learned allot. I got a 40 GDR that I have all of the issues fixed except 2. It has PQ controllers with Bertea proportional valves. 1. The swing valve doesn't go to neutral. It works left and right from the ground, basket controller not hooked up, but when a direction is not selected it turns right. If the turret is locked it opens the pressure relief. If I manually lock out the right turning side of the valve , it goes to neutral and unloads the pump. The left turn function still works. It does this even with the wires disconnected. I'm going to check pressures on the valve actuators, by the lockout handles to see if the spool is moved hydraulically from center or if it is mechanically not centered. 2. I can't get down control from the basket, on the ground controlls it is ok. The voltages at the solenoid seem fine while up or down is selected from the basket. 9.5V on one side and 5V on the oposite and they are reversed in the opposite direction. What does the diode do on the controllers? What is the proper voltage spread on the solenoid coils when the controller is in full travel? I have the scematics from a 40h but they show the solenoids grounded on the proportional valves and that isn't right, I know they are proportionally grounded through the controllers. Could someone send me the scematics and whatever you have for the 40f with Bertea valves?
Welcome gtp. Willie59 is the Bertea expert but it sounds like your valves need to be centered. I have the Bertea 40F wiring diagram you need but the on-site email won't send attachments. if you like, PM me your email address and I'll send you a PDF of the wiring schematic. You are right, they are showing no grounds on the Bertea porportionals (lift/swing/drive) so (in my mind) that would make those diodes very important.
Welcome to the forum gtp. :usa It's been so long since I fiddled with Bertea valves I can't remember all the little details of servicing them. But if you disconnect the wire connections to the valve servo coil of swing valve section, it should remain centered. If it doesn't and swing drifts to one side or the other, it's likely there's a problem with the servo spool. I can't remember if they had a centering adjustment, seems they had a spool travel limit adjustment, but I'm really not sure about that. But it could be the servos simply need cleaning. One thing Bertea valves and servos are really sensitive to is the least bit of debris. More than once I've dealt with a function that moves when engine is running, take the servo off the valve and thoroughly clean the components, and the function worked proper. I wish I could remember more about those things, sadly, many moons have since passed. Keep us informed on what you find. BTW, if you go back in this thread and read post #99, it gives you a description of how the PQ controllers operate the Bertea valves.
Hi Off, Thanks for the reply. I can't seem to get into the page to send you a PM. Here is my email at work, it works better than my email at home. XXXXXXX Thanks in advance for the schematics. I'll eventually work it out.
Schematics are sent gtp. You may want to edit out your email address from the above post, you never know. Be sure & check out Willie59's post #99 in this thread. Explains it all very well.
Hi gtp, you can't send private messages and other forum features until you loose the probationary status. You need to get three posts done and then your status will change to Junior Member and you can send PM messages, edit posts, post pictures, etc. If you want me to remove your email address above, I can do that for you at your request.
It would be good if you remove my email. Thanks for your help, now I have to get to work and figure this out.
I really appreciate the information that is posted on this forum. I had to start all over because I forgot my password and my email has changed. I have an 80f. I had everything working and have used the lift several hours. When I was using it the other day the engine died when I stepped on the foot switch on the platform. The ground controls all work fine. When I remove the orange wire from the micro switch in the foot switch and depress the petal the engine will not die. I also jumped from the black wire to the orange wire and it would not kill the engine when the foot switch was depressed.
I forgot to mention that when the orange wire is disconnected or jumped none of the platform controls work.
Test the diode that jumps from NO to NC terminals of micro switch inside foot switch, jumps white and orange wire.
I can't read the numbers on the diode. What amperage diode should I buy to replace the one that is bad?
Been so long since I've worked on one of those I'm not sure what amp size it is. But if you have a digital multi tester, or even an ohm meter tester, I would test the diode first. If you don't have that, you could even test the voltage through the diode with a simple test light probe.
I found out that my problem was one of the switches in the foot pedal. Every thing works now but the lift and the extend travels a lot slower using the basket controls than when the ground controls are used. Any suggestions how I could fix this problem?
It's been years since I've worked on an F model JLG, and haven't worked on a 80F, probably similar components though. If it has Bertea valves, I don't think the controllers had speed adjustments, can't remember for sure. If it has Racine valves, the controllers may have adjustment pots as Racine used pulse width modulation output controllers.
Even though I have a 80F I have learned a lot on this forum and several things seem to be the same. My machine has the Racine vales and PQ controllers.
Have you checked the PWM card attached to the bottom of the controllers? Are there very small trim pot screws on the card? Possibly 4 of them?
No, I have not checked the PWM card for the pot screws. I'll do that Monday. Thanks for all of the help that you have given on this forum.
I have a JLG 40 with "bang bang" controls and a gas air cooled wisconsin engine. I was able to purchase the manual from JLG (the purchase was a while ago). I have procured parts from generic supply houses - the joy sticks are cutler hammer contactors and the wiring is a bit ruff as are the rubber on the hoses..... THANK you all for the great information source on this post.
That's what we're here for oceanbob.
asurd1, check for trim pot screws on the PWM cards. If it has screws labeled something like Lo, Hi, Mid, and Ramp, let me know, I'll see if I can walk you through the adjusting procedure.
asurd1, also check your voltage in the basket (like at a terminal on the ignition toggle) and then watch the voltage as you operate the various controls. See is the voltage drops off more/greatly when you use the lift or scope. You've got outriggers on that 80F, right? The telescope circut runs through switches on the outriggers. Might be something going on there. Also the boom won't lift above horizontal without the outriggers set and everything runs through about 4 Potter Broomfiield latching relays....after it runs through brushes and slips rings above your hydraulic swivel. Hours of entertainment
It's about time you showed up to bail me out OFF. LMAO!
I think that my 80F was one of the 4 or 5 that was converted from outriggers to extendable axles. The reason that Eric from Bestline Equipment thinks it was converted is because I can't find a serial number on the frame.
That might be a blessing alright. sounds interesting! Gas or diesel?
Deutz diesel
National Series 500B Boom Cylinder I need some help. I have a1991 National Series 500B and the Boom cylinder is leaking oil. I need some directions on removing the cylinder, replacing the seals and putting the cylinder back on. Can anyone point me in the right direction.
Looking For JLG 40F Torque Hub for 2wd Manlift Hey guys, it seems like I have found an invaluable forum for this machine, I'm wondering if anyone can help me out. Someone had towed our manlift without inverting the torque hubs and the gear clusters were ruined, so I was wondering if anyone could help me out that might know of someone that would have a set of good gear clusters. The part number for the gear cluster is 7001912 and the part number for the whole torque hub is 2780035, which is the old number, I was given a newer part# by JLG which is 2780169. I guess they used those gear clusters on a lot of the JLG manlifts, so I don't think it has to be a 40f. If anyone could point me in the right direction of finding some used parts it would be greatly appreciated, I don't wanna drop $2,000 on a new hub. Thanks!
I don't know of any malift wrecking yards or anywhere to buy used torque hubs. Could be pricey. Google the heck out of those part numbers and who knows what you might come up with, Sounds like you have the makings of a cool "truck-mount" JLG
Hi, I have a lots of problem with my JLG 40 F not to mentioned the rusted control boxes and all kinds of replaced wires with mismatched colors..My most recent problem is: I recently removed all solenoids, removed the corrosion and painted them. Replaced all four o rings and free-up some stems. Bench tested them, no problem. The switches are delivering power but telescope IN-OUT, platform LEVEL and steering is not functioning? You can hear the solenoids clicking and the probe shows light accordingly, yet no physical movement. I though this may be about air in hydraulics lines, bus should not this purge on its own. (interestingly enough, all the other functions are working good.) Any Idea what I need to look for please? Thank you, Pavel
Sounds like the dump valve for the bang bang valves isn't working proper. There should be two dump valves, one for proportional valves, and one for the bang bang valves.
Welcome Pavel! Willie beat me to the punch. I agree, it sounds to me like a dump valve wire or dump valve solenoid acting up.
To Willie 59: Oh..number of problems with my JLF 40 F..(my house will never get new siding this way -)). I ma reading your replays and seeing a lot of knowledge--thanks for sharing. I would appreciate your insight on my most recent issues: recently removed all solenoids, (bang-bang) removed the corrosion and painted them. Replaced all four O rings and free-up some stems and one spool. The bench tested all of them them, no problem. After the installation the dilemma just started: The switches on platform or ground are energizing the selenoids, but telescope IN-OUT, platform LEVEL and steering is not functioning? I can hear the solenoids clicking and the probe shows light accordingly, yet no physical movement. I though it about air in hydraulics lines, bus should not this purge on its own. (interestingly enough, all the other functions are working good). The reason why I disassembled the selenoids is: all functions were working okay, however, occasionally during the boom up-down motion and switching to out/in the boom we could hear that the hydraulic were fighting. After quick ignition key blip the problem went of way. I thought that the bang-bang controls were stuck and rebuild them would only help. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanh you, Pavel
LoL, better late than never. Good to see you're still hanging out here OFF. :drinkup
Where, how can I locate those please? Are those on the top with two hoses leading back to the hyd. oil tank?
You've got the idea alright. Follow the supply hose (pressure hose) back and you'll run into the dump valve. It will have a ground wire and a power wire leading down to the dump valve solenoid. The solenoids (relays) are located on the crossmember under the engine.
Well, JLG used several different configurations for the dump valve arrangement, depends on how yours is set up. If you go back to page #15, post #225, 2nd pic, shows a Racine bang valve assembly with integral dump valve solenoid for telescope, platform tilt, and steer. The coil you see on the top of the valve assembly is the dump valve, it's the single solenoid valve that doesn't have a sister solenoid valve on opposite side of valve body. Other arrangements used a remote mount dump valve feeding oil to the Racine bang valve assembly. Hey OFF, this thread is getting so long, me thinks I'm gonna have to edit this thread and put an index for the illustrations posted on the thread. LoL
It is kinda perplexing that functions operated proper prior to you taking solenoid coils/spools off to clean things up a bit. But don't get totally distracted by that, in order for all three bang bang functions to become inoperable after you removed and service the solenoids, you would pretty much have to lose a component from each solenoid during repair and re-install. A more likely reason all those functions aren't working is problem with dump valve.
Willie 59 and OFF, Thank you both for your quick replies. I tent to believe willie59 just described what I have as the arrangement on mine machine. This evening I did found out that the single coil was warm, when I disconnected the power wire there was a spark, so the coil is continuously energized? Tomorrow I will need to look into that valve..Thank you, Pavel
Please post some pics of your components, it helps up to see how your machine is rigged up. On that bang valve assembly posted in post #225, the dump valve has a pin sticking out of the solenoid. You can push that pin in and have a helper operate one of the bang valve functions. If the function now works, problem is likely failure of dump valve solenoid.
what may be the common problem with the dump valve?. I had all 9 selenoids out for about a week..there were all apart completely.
will post pictures tomorrow, yes there is a pin on the top coil.
Pictures added for Pavel's JLG 40F - Guys, My arrangement looks similar like pictures in post #225. Is the Right side Inside detail the suspected dump malfunctioning dump valve please? Thank you, Pavel
The solenoid in the red circle is the dump valve for the bang valve functions. The solenoid assembly shown in pic #2 has the dump valve solenoid for proportional valves. I can't remember what the 2nd solenoid on that dump valve is, possibly solenoid for high drive.
Thank you for your quick look into this. I just took out the 1" nut check the interiors and found all small parts free of movements..on the front of the selenoid--in the cast body is an insert with o ring-all clean that I replaced otherwise all clean. I bench tested the selenoid assembly and found out that the magnet pull under power does not do much when compared to the larger selenoids. (Oversight on my site when I had all 9 serviced). It is kind of holding the spool in the tube in one location. (the larger selenoids made very visible movements during the bench test.) The ohms value is only about 2.9, (larger selenoids reads ~ 3.2 Ohms). I probably will swap the other small selenoid jut to see if it works, but the Ohms value is the same as as on the suspected one.... Thank you for your suggestions. Pavel
The ohms reading would likely be different on the dump valve coils as they are smaller than bang valve coils, less winding. I don't know if you noticed it, but those solenoid coils come apart. When you pop one of those solenoids off of the valve body, you would be holding the round coil in a steel casing, and the square plate with screws that holds the solenoid coil to valve body. But that round sleeve inside the coil will slip out of the coil. Although it's not unusual for the sleeve to be stuck inside the coil from heat over the years, no worries. If you look at the end of the sleeve, you'll see a round brass disk fitted into sleeve, has the pin sticking out of it. That brass disk will remove from sleeve, there is a small o-ring that seals disk in sleeve. Once you remove that disk (make sure you don't drop the pin and lose it), you'll find a round steel plunger inside sleeve. That plunger has to move freely. I have see accumulation of small particles inside the sleeve that inhibits movement of plunger. BTW, on the opposite side of valve body from dump valve is a large hex plug. The main relief valve for bang valve assembly is under that plug. Pay close attention to what you are removing if you ever have to remove those components. It's not the case with yours as you stated your bang valve assembly previously worked, but I worked on a bang valve assembly once that had no operations. It took me a few minutes, but I discovered someone had been inside the relief valve and re-installed components improperly which wouldn't allow unit to build pressure, just dumped oil from the pump back to tank.
The plunger moves freely, howeverothere is only .003" clearance between those two. The plunger had some small scratches on the O.D. that I polished on lathe with an oiled 320 grit paper. "and re-installed components improperly which wouldn't allow unit to build pressure, just dumped oil from the pump back to tank". not rejecting as a possibility this may be an issue." I do not not believe, as it working okay previously, but want to double check. Is there a drawing if the selenoid unit available please? I think the key word is yours: "wouldn't allow unit to build pressure". It seems there is the fluid flow but no pressure.. Thank you, Pavel
Keep in mind we're talking about two different components here, the solenoid dump valve, and the main relief valve. The unit I worked on had a problem with relief valve from someone who didn't know what they were doing. The purpose of the dump valve is a redundant backup for the bang valve solenoids. When the dump valve is not active, it allows oil to return to tank. When you activate a bang function, steer, tele, basket tilt, you do two things; power up the solenoid for selected function, and power up the dump valve. Dump valve sends oil into the bang valve manifold to be distributed to selected function. If for some reason the function valve were to stick, such as telescope out, it would continue to telescope out when you released switch. The dump valve provides a secondary backup to stop function in a case like this.
Hello od1, Wow, nice machine, you had to put a lot of work to it. I would be very happy if you would replay to me; I am reading your post(s) and seeing that I have the same, perhaps more problems.. Have you been able to get the wiring diagrams please? Another issue that I am having is the telescope in-out, platform tilt and steering malfunction. It is described in reply to jay42782 post: Could you please check page 33, post #491; 492. I have hydraulic oil flow at the steering line, but no pressure that can move the piston rod. OFF and Willie are the awesome source of help..I quote Willie "wouldn't allow unit to build pressure". I am thinking that is right..So I opened the dump valve behind the 1" hex plug; all the parts seems normal, nothing was seized. I hope I did assembled back all right..My thinking is that the tapered point should be against the tapered opening. I will open it again and take same pictures. Power goes to solenoids, I can measure about 12V when the telescope switch is activated. What puzzles me is the diode, can't find it, it is worth to verify it. If you do know where the diode is located please let me know. Thank you, Pavel
hey Pavel, i hope i didn't throw you off with the whole Diode and Relay thing.i was told this directly from JLG.problem is everyone i have talked to other than those on this forum have no literature left for these machines so there kinda guessing in a way from memory.i posted a couple things in my thread i started about what we checked and how i just got things working again.if i can help in any way as far as wiring diagrams or stuff out of the manual if you dont already have it let me know.i will have some free time now and can scan some pages if you need them.
Hey Jay, I got the Service & Maintenance manuals from OFF. Those are for machines 40F for 1979, the PN: is 3120095. My machine is 1980 so I emailed JLG and they gave PN: 3120500 as the correct number for 1980. I will have to go thoroughly all pages to see the what the difference may be. I hope that they are close -). Thanks for your help, Pavel
HI PAVEL JUST FOUND THIS SIGHT, LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF INFO. I HAVE A 40F AND HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH IT FROM WHAT I HAVE READ IT MIGHT BE THE DUMP VALVE, HAVE VERY LITLE POWER IN DRIVE WHEELS. I CANT FIND ANY MANUALS CAN YOU SAND ME WHAT YOU HAVE THANKS TED [email protected]
Pavel, I measured a new dump valve solenoid and got 3.0 ohms resistance.
OFF, i am new to this thread and site, have purchased a 1982 80f with many many problems, some of which have been resolved via reading through this very helpful forum. THANKS HEAPS. To help me on my journey to revive this beast, Do you have any workshop manuals, wiring diagrams, hydraulic schematics for an 80F ?? If so could you email them to me? [email protected] Thanks again
Welcome to the Forum prommo! I don't have a manual left for an 80F, but I might have some misc. diagrams & info. I'll see what's there and try & get some scanned in for you if anything looks worthwhile. Tell us about your 80F. Gas or Diesel? Racine or Moog valves and controllers? Outriggers?
That would be muchly appreciated. Anything may help. It is diesel, (engine runs perfectly), Racine valves, not sure about the controllers, The axles spred to make a wider wheel base, but no actual seperate outriggers. I believe there is a issue with main valve bank, drive, boom up/down, spin, telescope in/out. It appears to have been pulled appart before and reasembled incorrectly. The engine 'loads up' when it is on ground controlls, although nothing moves. All electrics seam ok so i believe the fault is mechanical (in the valve assembily). Does this sound about right? Thanks again
Yet it doesn't load engine when you select upper controls? BTW, welcome to the forum prommo. :usa
Also, engine only loads up when the racine proportional dump valve is activated, (tested by unplugging it.) could there be a problem in that valve? not sure if it has been dissasembled, reasembled, parts lost ect in the past. If anybody has detailed diagrams of what should be in there and how it should be in there it would be an awesome help Willie 59 - When upper(basket) control is selected, the engine doesnt load, untill a lever (up/down , swing, telescope, drive) is activated.
Prommo, when you say "load up" do you mean you detect a change in the sound of the engine indicating it's loading - or do you mean it's loading up to the point of stalling the engine? That dump valve should activate (and load the engine) when ever you switch to ground control or step on the foot switch while on basket control. That's normal. The only 80F diagram I have is a main terminal box wiring with outriggers, and it's a poor quality copy. Also have a main hydraulic pump circut diagram, again with outriggers. It shows the pumps, dump valves, tank, etc.
that diagram of the hydraulics may be of some help if you have a spare few minutes. i mean it loads up to the point of almost stalling, an engine of that size should not be that easy to almost stall. i realise a small change in the engine sound is quiet normal, but this change is very dramatic. any ideas?
Time to hook up a pressure gauge and see what's going on. Could be a stuck relief in the proportional bank's dump valve. System pressure should be in the range of 2200 to 2400 psi I believe. There's dual (stacked) hydraulic filters in the tank under the cover with the big T-bolt. Also a high pressure filter in the system. PM me your email and I'll send you the hydraulic schematic.
Thanks I'll try that and see how I go, everything In the dump Valve seems to be free and not damaged, but have no idea if it's been assembled correctly when pulled apart by previous owners. Do you know of anywhere to find assembly drawings of the valve bank?
That is exactly what I am looking for-- I need the assembly drawings of the valve bank especially the dump valve. Please see the pictures?
JLG Dilema The problematic bank valve picture. None of the functions working, but the drive, boom up, rotation which are controlled by the Bertea valves in may case. How we can determine where the problem is? All of the components on the top assembly, (single coil solenoid) are moving free. What are those three blocks that are installed directly to spool body? Thank you! Pavel
The JLG 40F saga continues in electrical Something interesting: --Ground operation: toggle switch, telescope IN or OUT-- the 12V on the switch reads 12V, but when the switch is activated the power goes always to both solenoids. (switch is good). It seems there is a back feed of voltage: anyone has an idea from what the back feed is coming from? (I can move the telescope IN-OUT manually) --Switching to platform operation: Platform level UP or DOWN, the telescope will go IN first even without toggling, once reaches the maximum re-track the platform starts working. Any ideas why I got more solenoids energized by pressing only one switch? I can't find source of the unwanted voltage that feeds more then the selected solenoid that I need. Please see the Racine Dump valve drawings. Does anyone recognize whether this is a single valve in two different views please. Or the drawings are represneting two different valves configuration? Attached is picture. Thank you , Pavel
Ok, playing catch up here, post #512, "what are those three blocks..." Those are fitting manifolds mounted on the valve manifolds. The valve manifold only have port holes in them, have no provision for threads to install fittings. Those manifolds do two things, 1) provide threaded ports for fittings and 2) provide port relief valves for the valve manifold, although basket tilt does not have port relief valves fitted. Post #513. The valve shown in the PDF attachment shows the complete dump valve for the Racine bang valve assembly. It's the same valve in all three of those views, just shows multiple views to accommodate the numerous item numbers, item 1 2 3 4 5 and so on. As for the telescope operating when you operate basket tilt from ground controls, have you tried to disconnect wiring connections at telescope coils and then see if basket tilt operates proper with no movement of telescope to verify it's an electrical problem?
Willie, thank you for clarifying all the above. Now I know that my dump valve is missing at least three parts. (#38,#37,#18, #17).. Now I have a new dump valve (substitute form JLG). I was able to operate all functions by connecting 12V wire to dump and a solenoid that I wanted to get activated. The hydraulics are working okay, it seem the problem is electrical.. Thank you, Pavel
If you were missing those parts from the dump valve section then you wouldn't have any operation of the bang valves. Just to make sure I'm on the same page, you're saying you obtained a replacement dump valve section from JLG and fitted it to your existing bang valve assembly? Then you can power up the dump valve with a jumper wire, and power up each individual coil of bang valve assembly and get proper function reaction? Assuming this is the case, now lets go back to your problem of functions not working proper. The problem you describe from lower controls is curious, but too vague for me to know what's causing it just yet. I have a suspicion, but not enough info. However, the problem you describe with basket controls, operate platform level, either up or down, and boom telescopes in. Once telescope bottoms out, platform level now operates, that's a little more specific to work with. You have established the problem is in the wiring, as disconnecting wires at bang valves and working with jumpers causes proper operation. The trick is finding where the wiring problem lies. For a starting point, I'm always suspicious of the harness cable that goes from platform to ground main box. What I would do first is locate the terminal strip in lower main control box the the 16/24 cable from platform controls connects to. Assuming the machine has the proper 16/24 cable and has not been jerry rigged over the years, I would disconnect the two wires that control telescope at that terminal strip. It should be white wire at terminal 2 and red wire at terminal 3. Do not disconnect the white or red wires that come from lower control box and connect to 2 and 3, just the red and the white wires from platform controls. Once you've done that, try your platform level at basket controls. If level now works proper, switch to ground controls and see if telescope in/out now works proper. If we get lucky and things now begin to operate proper, I think you may have a problem 16/24 cable.
If you were missing those parts from the dump valve section then you wouldn't have any operation of the bang valves. Just to make sure I'm on the same page, you're saying you obtained a replacement dump valve section from JLG and fitted it to your existing bang valve assembly? Then you can power up the dump valve with a jumper wire, and power up each individual coil of bang valve assembly and get proper function reaction? That is exactly what I have done. All functions works well when the new dump valve is energized (jumped) together with the required coil. All the hydraulics works exceptionally fast. (when I originally posted my problem I can’t move anything, so I got a new dump valve from Parker. Assuming this is the case, now lets go back to your problem of functions not working proper. The problem you describe from lower controls is curious, but too vague for me to know what's causing it just yet. I have a suspicion, but not enough info. However, the problem you describe with basket controls, operate platform level, either up or down, and boom telescopes in. Once telescope bottoms out, platform level now operates, that's a little more specific to work with. Well, let me try a better description: Selector switch is Ground position. Ignition switch is ON, the toggle switch that controls telescope IN-OUT in the center. 12V are present at the feed two yellow wires that are connected to the switch center screw. Move the toggle switch to telescope IN. Now the voltage is present on all three contacts…(although one contact always shows approximately 1V less than the other). If I move the switch to telescope OUT there will be a voltage on all three contacts of the switch. Therefore both coils are energized at the same time and the hydraulic spool stays in the center. I do not know where is the secondary voltage to the unwanted contact coming from. Relay back feed, may be? You have established the problem is in the wiring, as disconnecting wires at bang valves and working with jumpers causes proper operation. The trick is finding where the wiring problem lies. For a starting point, I'm always suspicious of the harness cable that goes from platform to ground main box. What I would do first is locate the terminal strip in lower main control box the the 16/24 cable from platform controls connects to. Assuming the machine has the proper 16/24 cable and has not been jerry rigged over the years, I would disconnect the two wires that control telescope at that terminal strip. It should be white wire at terminal 2 and red wire at terminal 3. Do not disconnect the white or red wires that come from lower control box and connect to 2 and 3, just the red and the white wires from platform controls. (I will try tonight) Once you've done that, try your platform level at basket controls. If level now works proper, switch to ground controls and see if telescope in/out now works proper. If we get lucky and things now begin to operate proper, I think you may have a problem 16/24 cable (I will try tonight)
Don't worry about quirk at ground control toggle switch until you disconnect red and white wires from platform cable connected to terminals 2 and 3.
The JLG 40F saga continues in electrical--Racine vs. Bertea Wiring diagram Willie59, I could not try to disconnect the red&white, got home late and it's dark I am thinking now maybe to rewire the whole thing: rolleyes:. Please see the pictures, it is a mess. . I am comparing the wiring diagrams for Bertea and Racine and am more confused than ever. There are the Bertea valves on the bottom left below the main box and Racine coils above. What wiring diagram should I use? The Bertea wiring diagram has only one relay, the Racine got two. The picture that is included has two relays. Thank you, Pavel ointhead
Ah yes, there's the white on #2 and red on #3. LoL I feel your pain Pavel. The 40F is probably the hardest one to do wiring repairs as the boxes were so small, much smaller that the later models. Be patient, let's check this out before you get mad and tear into it. It may turn out you will have to replace boom harness cable, just can't say for sure yet.
16/24 miltiwire Hi there, Please see the attached. If you mean the two on the right side located in #2 and #3 of the terminal strip on the right side; I have it done. The white is actually yellow, there is no white between those 24 conductors. There was no difference in the operation level, boom in - out. Do you think that I will need to test every single conductor of the 24? Thank you, Pavel
I have no way of knowing whether the wires are connected to right or left of terminal strip. What we are trying to do is see if the boom cable is causing the problem, the way to do that is remove cable connections. I'm talking about the fat cable that comes from platform and goes to ground main control box shown in your pic. If it's the proper cable, it's a cable assembly that has 16 gauge conductors (wires) and contains 24 conductors, 16-24. Again, if it's the proper cable, the two wires that send telescope signal from platform is red wire and white wire, locate those two wires and disconnect them from the terminal strip in lower control box. Then try operating platform level at basket controls. Just want to make sure we're on the same page. BTW, are you certain you have Bertea main control valves and not Racine? To my knowledge, the Bertea machines didn't use two control relays in lower control box, but I have seen JLG do weird things before.
16x24 & Bertea Thank you for keeping me on alert. Yes, I do understand the wire 16 AWG x 24 conductors...as you mentioned weird things may happened..I was scratching my head looking for the white and red coming from the boom. The two wires on the left side of the terminal strip are leading to the ground control (position #2 & #3.) So I did disconnected those leading form the boom, in my application is the Yellow and red. There was no difference in machine behavior with the disconnection or with no disconnection. It is the Bertea and is terribly confusing because I do not have the wiring diagrams and my fear is that I will have to do the rewiring, but how without a diagram..haha
No worries Pavel, I can provide the diagrams, have to warn ya though, JLG diagrams are not the easiest to follow. That's definitely Bertea control valves, but I wouldn't worry about quirks, like I said, I've seen them before from JLG. Give me a quick refresher of exactly what problem functions you are having. Keep descriptions brief, note any function, upper and lower, that's not operating properly. Trying to get a post that describes the various problems to help me get my head around it.
okay; ground operation: up/down, swing left/right, emergency, selector are working. The only function that is not working is boom in/out. Platform operation: swing, up/down and drive is working okay. Funny: the boom was all the way in and all the way down so I claimed onto the platform. now picture this: Once I try boom in/out, platform level or even steer the boom slides out -- caused by my weight? I assume. To prove that that I am causing to move the boom: I lifted myself to slightly above horizontal level. The boom did not continued to move out. is it because a dump valve opens and allows the fluid to drain but no spool is energized? I can hear the spools moving / clicking.
Ok, lemme ask this, disconnect wire connections to both coils for telescope in/out at bang valves. Does platform level, rotate, and steer now operate proper from platform controls?
Here is what I did found, the engine on the low speed. Telescope IN-OUT disconnected at the bang-bang valves. Platform operation: Swing, Steering, Up-Down, Fw/Rev and platform level works fine. When telescope in/out was pressed I heard that the engine worked harder, probably because the dump valve was closed expecting flow. (just my speculation). Later, I connected back only the Out coil and when active it worked fine.(The IN connection stayed disconnected. There is red and white on the peripheral contact of the In/Out switch. In the center are two yellow..that is the feed of 12V. I traced the red wire back to the main terminal box an it is connected to the fuse on the box door, which is always hot. Basically I am getting both telescope coils energized at all the same time and the spool is centered? Please help me to find out the red wire as marked on the picture as connected to he fuse is correct. Thank you, Pavel
Are you certain the red wire connected to the lower telescope switch is connected to circuit breaker on main control box? The white wire from lower tele switch should connect to terminal 2, the red wire from lower tele switch should connect to terminal 3. Send me your email address via PM and I'll forward the parts manual, the manual has the wiring diagrams in it.
Yes sir, am certain, the red wire is connected to circuit breaker, the white leading from in/out switch is in position #10. Thank you Pavel.
Email sent, you should receive it soon. If not, let me know. White wire going to terminal #10? Good grief, what else we gonna find wrong with this wiring! :Banghead
Someone before me had the generator connected wrong: machine was not charging the battery. To shut off the engine – the connector from generator and resistor needed to be pulled manually. There was another patch work done judging by various connectors and different terminal crimpers. When I replaced the generator I followed the included instruction..there was another work done during that period without starting – trying the hydraulic functions..Well I have plenty of work for the weekend! Thank you for your help! Your help is just awesome. Pavel
"OFF" - I'm a brand-new member. Just acquired a JLG 80F aerial lift. With a lot of help from JLG's Jack Garlock (who KNOWS!) and from the PQ controller folks, I've got it working pretty well. Has RACINE proportional valves, which were out of balance causing unwanted moves whenever the proportional dump valve was closed. I was able to stop the unwanted moves using the balance screws on the bottoms of the pilot valve bank (3/16" hex setscrews with 1/2" hex jam nuts) but: screwing IN gthe setscrews resulted in motion in one direction; screwing the screws OUT stopped that motion, but no amount of "unscrewing" produced motion in the other direction! I have a feeling that the proportional valve bank should be disassembled and checked (weak/broken springs? wrong or no air gap? "Other"?). I read a posting that suggested that you might have a service/overhaul manual for those valves! Any hope that I can beg, borrow, buy or steal it? (The ideal would be if you can EMail it to me.) I would be very grateful and would offer the following in return: I have originals of JLG's operator's manual, parts manual and service manual for the 80F which I can copy and mail if needed. (There are both hydraulic and wiring diagrams in the service manual, but they are not great and not easy to use. The wiring diagrams in particular are not 100% correct or complete!) ALSO: I added a couple of convenience switches to my machine: one overrides the outrigger microswitches to permit telescope action even when the outriggers are not set (obviously, must be used with caution since machine stability may be compromised) and one allows the selection of HIGH engine speed when using the ground control panel, which speeds the setting of outriggers and other ground-controlled functions. For the first, you need a DPDT toggle switch. For the second you need a SPST toggle switch and a 6-amp isolating diode. Again, I'd be very grateful for RACINE proportional valve service information!
Hey, This is Pavel, somehow your reply ended up here, no problem. I have the bang-bang valves assembly drawings. If this is what you are looking for let me know via PM and I will email those. Thanks, Pavel
Pavel - Thanks anyway, but I'm looking for the service information for the RACINE proportional valve bank - not the bang-bang valves. I read an earlier thread that said that user "OFF" had that info and was going to EMail that info to user "ATCO" .
asurd1 - The diodes are not real critical. The originals are 6-amp 50-PIV diodes. You can get them in packs of 4 at Radio Shack - about 50 cents a diode.
OFF - Don't know how to contact you! This forum site won't let me view your profile. I understand that you have a repair guide for RACINE valves that you can EMail. I would be VERY grateful for any service info I can get for the RACINE proportional valve bank in my JLG 80F. I'm all set to rebuild this valve bank but have no info at all on it. I'd sure like to know what's inside before I tear it apart! Thanks very much! EMail: [email protected]
Welcome to the forum n458md. :usa I don't have any info on the 80F myself, and have little experience with the Racine proportional valves. OFF may have info, or if not, may be able to at least give you some advice. He only stops in here on occasion, a little luck and you can hook up with him. You now have 4 posts to change your status. The forum server updates once and hour. If you log out and come back in a little while your status should be upgraded.
I'm around guys, just been busy adding a second story on my house. Welcome n458md. Unfortunatly I have very little for drawings on the 80F, but I did maintain one for about 20 years so I've had some experience. I'll send you that Racine manual.
I just purchased a JLG 40 FR and would like to recieve wiring and hyd. schematics if possible. I've been lurking here for a few weeks and have learned a lot thanks to you guys. Like all of the older machines this one has a few glitch's, The emergency function only operates the boom up & basket tilt, no boom down or in and out. The pump runs the whole time while trying different functions with no change in sound. All of the functions work with the engine running. Is there some type of bushing in the boom extensions? Thanks Lee
Welcome to the forum props4u2. You need to get your three posts in to change your status from probationary member to junior member, then you can do a Private Message to send your email address so we can forward diagrams for you.
Thanks for the welcome! Will do on the posts.
By the way, my JLG came from Allison Boats in Louisville,Tn. Darris has had it since the late 70's and just purchased a later model one. I've been a dealer for them since 1994.
Darris Allison? Allisoncraft boats? OMG...I've worked on that machine years ago. LMAO! Send me a Private Message with your email address props4u2 and I'll forward the parts manual, it has wiring diagrams in it.
I thought you may have had some connection with it since it was in your area for so long. I'll have to get some pictures of it, still has original paint and decals as it has been stored under cover most of its life. PM Sent Lee
Yep, it's got Bertea main valves on it. Developed a creep issue once, took the servo off the drive valve section and cleaned components, re-assembled, worked like a charm again. Think I rebuilt the brakes on it, can't remember for certain what I've done to that machine, seems just minor stuff though.
Email on its way. The manual is broken down in three PDF files because some folks can't receive large files in email. Let me know if all three files didn't come through. The wiring diagrams are near the end of file 3.
Darris had a new swing pump installed on it recently as the old one developed a major leak. The pump is for a newer machine so the pump is much faster than the original one, since the pump is either on or off it can be a little tricky in tight places. Would it be a bad idea to try to install pressure reducer valves in the hyd. lines going to the swing motor?
Wait a minute, the 40F had a three section pump, one section for proportional valves, one section for bang valves, and a small section to add additional flow combined with proportional valve section output to provide high drive. Can you elaborate on what is causing swing to be fast? Swing should be a proportional function.
So to be proportional I assume that it would have to have a control lever that has a potentiometer? Someone has replaced the joystick with a momentery on-off-on rocker switch. The up/down boom, steer and forward/reverse sticks have also been replaced with the same rocker switch's.
Well I bet that sucker is a bucking little bronco to operate it. Yes, boom up/dwn, boom swing, and drive should be operated by a proportional contoller with potentiometer and small circuit card. I'm not sure who would have converted it to rocker switches, or why, maybe the cost of new controllers? Tell ya what, give Eric at Best Line Equipment in Shippensburg PA a call, 888-321-3217. Eric remembers the old 40F probably as well as anyone. Ask him for a price and the part number for proper controllers for boom, swing, and drive. Then give Hindley Electronics a call in Bowling Green OH, 888-352-4000. Give them the part numbers and see what they have available. It's possible they may not have any re-man controllers as these things are getting pretty old, then again they might.
Believe it or not it's not aweful. The swing is the only thing that's a little tricky, just have to bump the switch, but it's probably not good on the machine. Again, thanks for the info, you're a wealth of information and very kind to be willing to share!! I'll give those folks a call. Lee
you could fit adjustable needle valves in the hoses coming out of valve body going to swing motor. you could then adjust how much flow goes to swing motor. but it would heat the oil, and you would be unhappy when boom is short and you need to rotate a good bit, it would take a while to get there.
I would rather install the correct parts if i can find them so it will operate as designed. I will just be using it around the shop, not trying to make a living with it, but I still like to have things as good as they can be.
I agree, just offering an option until proper components are fitted.
:thumbsup: :notworthy
Guys, Just wanted to let you know that I finally solved the problem on the telescope IN/OUT issue. There are two diodes connected in the main terminal to contacts 2 & 3 (Yellow wires). One of the diodes was cracked and the second one fall apart while I was looking into. They are well hidden behind the numbers of wires.. I replaced both and now the telescope IN/OUT function is working fine. On a separate note; doe anyone know what should be the hydraulic pressure on the drive system? -- leading to both drive hubs in 40F two wheel drive machine? (It seems that the machine is struggling up hill and the high drive ON has no effect on the speed at all. (a dump valve?) Thank you, Pavel
Good to hear you got telescope sorted out. Are you saying the engine struggles or the hyd system struggles on a grade? The 40F wasn't a powerful pulling machine as the Wisconsin engine wasn't a high horsepower engine, but should still pull some grade. Not sure how your pumps are set up with the changes that have been done to the machine, but originally it used 3 pumps; one for bang valves, one for drive, and one to add additional flow to drive circuit to provide hi drive. That pump went to a dump valve that would dump flow from pump back to tank when hi drive was not selected.
The engine runs good, it does not stall or hesitate once is warmed up. . It looks like the hydraulic drive hubs don't have the torque to propel the monster going up hill. The manual say that the 2WD should handle a grade up to 14 or 15% grade. Tomorrow I will measure the vertical incline on the length of my driveway to confirm what the actual grade is. You may remember that I had a problem with the opposite dump valve that I replaced with a substitute from Parker. Well, the high drive dump is exactly the same, bummer, missing the internal parts that should close the dump valve once is energized.. I searched on ebay, all craigs list sites for a dump valve, but no luck. It almost seems that I will need to spend another $330 for the Parker substitute... Thank you, Pavel
Hey Paul, I talked to Eric @ Best Line today, very nice imformative gentleman. I told him what lift I have and he said that it originally had Cutler Hammer joy sticks which didn't have potentiometers, just a micro switch on or off. He also said that it has FPS coil/solenoids as they are round with a nut holding them on, and Racine bang valves. I also asked him what is the difference between the 40 F and the FR, he said the R stood for basket rotate. I'm going to leave the rocker switch's on it for now since he said it will not operate any different. Thanks again for all your help, Lee
I'm new to the forum and have been reading the threads on the JLG 40 boom lift. You've discussed the brake issues of this machine and I wondered if I could bounce some questions off you guys about a machine I have.
Well, that's why I advised you call Eric, that old buzzard knows his stuff on those things. Good to hear you got some advice anyway. Go ahead marbil222, ask away, unless it's a different JLG other than a 40F. If that's the case, might be better in it's own thread. And welcome to the forum.
I have a JLG 450 AJ, 1998 model and as soon as they'll let me I'll post on its own thread. Thanks
You have your required posts now. The server updates once an hour, not sure at what part of the hour, but after a spell, your status will be updated.
According to the serial # here are a few pictures of my 1977 40 FR.
Nice machine props4u2.
Thank you sir! It sure has been handy around the shop already.
Jlg Hey guys can someone email me the wiring and hydralic diagrams for the JLG 40F to me also??
Welcome to the forum Lumberman. You need to get three posts in to change your status to Junior Member. Then you can send me your email address with a private message so I can send you the info you need.
Am new to forum. Need to get diagram of undercarriage JLG 40h. Can anyone help?
Undercarriage diagram or photos JLG 40H New to Forum. Need to get diagram or photos to replace a bracket on undercarriage JLG 40H
Looking for Help. Am new to forum. Need to get diagram of undercarriage JLG 40h. I have a support bracket? that came off and need to replace. Not sure how it goes so that's why the question on diagram. Greatly appreciated if anyone can help?
Welcome to the forum reainc. I could email the 40F parts manual, can't say for certain it will show the bracket in question though.
Welcome reainc, You can still down load manuals for a 40H from JLG. Here's a link to the parts manual you need. http://csapps.jlg.com/OnlineManuals...s/40H/Parts_3120241_03-18-09_ANSI_English.pdf
Well willie I think we have sucess! Everything except the choke is working good. Needing to adjust the engine speed. Any suggestions??
Does it have the VH4D Wisconsin engine Lumberman?
Yes i believe it does willie. I have not made it deep enough into the motor (because it ran good from the start) to know if it is a keyed or splined pump. This may be an obvious thing if I knew what i was looking for. It is not diesel I know for sure. When we started this I did not know a thing about JLG lifts. The motor ran after some minor carb work. None of the electrical/valve bodies worked. None of the toggles/joysticks worked. So i got a crash course in all of the above. We bought the lift for scrap steel price so i didnt figure we had much to loose. We now have all the major components working. There are still lots of bugs to work out but i am hopeful. The major bug that I am working on at the moment is the throttle up solenoid. The way i am understanding this is that when the dead man switch is depressed the engine should throttle up. It also seems there is a "high drive" switch on the bucket control panel that also has to be on to allow this to happen. The wiring to the dead man switch and to the high drive switch is not there. My question is, Does the "high drive" just refer to motor speed or does it also increase hydraulic flow? (more so than just the higher rpm).
Wow, no I'm really digging in my head. If I recall correctly, the high throttle was a Syncro Strart pull type magnetic solenoid that pulled a chain connected to one of the levers on the governor control, not to the carb throttle, a separate linkage went from governor to carb throttle. I can't remember if high throttle operated for both drive and boom functions, or for drive functions only. If your machine has the correct pumps on it, the drive uses oil from one pump for normal drive mode. When you select the high drive switch, it operates a dump valve that adds oil flow from an additional pump thereby increasing drive speed. There is a mercury switch located on the lower side of main boom in area of boom pivot that disables high drive when boom is raised in the air.
Willie, You are right (not that you needed me to tell you that) there is a mercury switch that disables the "high drive". I am pretty sure its working as intended. I will have to look at it but I think I am missing some linkage or something. That high drive is pretty important. I would take me about an hour to get from one side of my lumberyard to the other the way it is now. The solenoid works when power is applied. Just have to sort some linkage and wiring. Like I said before, I had NEVER worked on anything like this prior to a month or so ago. Keep feeling like I need a direct line to 1975 I think!!!!
The VH4D used a couple of different governor control mechanisms depending on how it was set up. I can't remember for certain, but let's assume the engine in the 40F used a link arrangement like shown in red circle of drawing below. Item 23 link is connected to 30 arm via 24, 25, 26, and 27. 27 adjusting nuts is used to set low speed rpm. The opposite end of 23 link connects to hook on end of 22 spring. Opposite end of 22 spring connects to 15 arm on governor via one of the many holes in 15 arm. Item 21 link connects to top hole in 15 governor arm, opposite end of 21 link connects to throttle control on carb. For high throttle operation, a cable or small chain comes from Syncro Strart pull solenoid and connects to item 32, which is connected to lower hole in arm 30. Item 31 is pivot for arm 30. When cable/chain from pull solenoid pulls on 32, arm 30 moves on pivot and pulls 23 link increasing pull tension on spring 22 reacting on arm 15. This changes the load on arm 15 which increases engine speed but also allows governor to react and maintain engine rpm as load is increased or decreased.
Willie, Thanks!!! I am missing linkage. That blow up should allow me to attach everything. Will keep you posted. Would love to dissappear into the shop for about a week. Unfortunately it may be Thursday before I get a chance to work on the lift again.
I am also looking for help on a JLG----60G. First I want to thank you guys for sharing you knowledge and keeping this old equipment running. My problem is when I step on the foot switch and not touching anything else it will take off in one direction, always goes the same way. Then it will go for a couple of hours and work perfect? It has the PLC brand controls. Thanks
I haven't worked on a 60G myself, not sure how the differ from the F model machine or what components they use. Did you mean to say it uses PQ controllers? Also, when you say "it will take off in one direction", does that mean it swings in one direction, or booms up in one direction? Have you tried disconnecting the controller at the platform for the faulty function and see if that makes problem go away? Some pics of machine and components would help as I have never been around one.
Willie yes a PQ 120 series, hope this is correct I will check for sure tomorrow. It is the ground travel that takes off. I looked into unplugging the controller ,someone has cut out the plug and but spliced. So i need to get some sort of plug together splices. Willie I will get pictures, thanks
Welcome 225! I've never seen a 60G either but I'd sure like to. Love to see a picture of it Another way to tell what's up is to put the machine on ground control. If it still takes off on you, then it might not be controller. You'll need to "center" the valve spool for that function. Controller is the most common cause though.
The G models weren't that much different than the F. It was a change-over model between the F and the H. Arguably the best models built. The G, not so much. It was not around long. Cosmetic difference was the engine cover was a slide-back canopy that was a real pain in the ass. Another issue was what might be causing this problem. If the function that is taking off is one of the proportional functions it may be from the pilot section of one of the control valves. The majority of the G models used the Bertea valve bank. The pilot sections of these valves were very sensitive and could act up, especially in cold weather. Back during the day, in the winter in Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota etc, the machines would have to be started and left running for about an hour or so before the oil was thin enough to flow smoothly through the pilot section. Thet were notorious for sticking or just plain not working at all. The pilot sections are interchageable between the different functions so troubleshooting wasn't too difficult, just messy. The ones with Racine Proportional Valves were a bit better. I should have the manuals for the G. I will look in the shop tomorrow morning. You can swap the wires from the drive valves to the lift valves to see if the problem follows the controller /wiring or the hydraulics/valves. Some more info is necessary.
Was wondering if the G model still used Bertea valves, they were notorious for ghost functions. And they don't like oil that's too heavy in viscosity.
pictures of 60G I will try to post pictures of my JLG. To review my problem. When you push the foot peddle, sometimes the ground travel will be active and the machine will start to travel without touching anything but the foot switch. What would be the problem? Thanks for your help. If you need more pictures, just let me know what. View attachment 87765
Good to see you've got Racine proprtional valves. That's a bonus. I was surprized to see it powered by a Wisconsin engine though. Thanks for the putting up the pics. As Willie59 said, first step is to disconnect the drive controller and see if it still does the "auto-drive" trick.
there is a valve bank on the other side, do you have a photo of that?
more pictures 60G Is there a repair source for the PQ controllers? [/ATTACH] The first and last pictures are the valves on the other side of machine. Thanks guys
Here is the Drive section of the Valve Assembly The easiest way to determine if it is an Electric or Hydraulic issue is to reverse the coil wires (+ and -) at the Drive Valve. If the problem continues to stay in the same direction, then a hydraulic problem could be assumed. If the problem changes directions, then an electric problem could be assumed. Swapping the wires from the lift coil (the valve immediately next to the Drive Valve) to the drive coil and vice versa, will also be an easy test. If the problem stays with the Drive controller, then the problem is in the Drive Controller circuit and not the Drive Valve (in effect, if after making this swap, the lift function, and not the drive, starts taking off by itself). If the problem stays with the Drive Valve, then the Drive Controller circuit (except for the coils) would not be suspect and there would be a possibility of drive valve coil or valve component issues.
JLG 40f help needed Greetings from Finland to all Forum members. I am a new member and I have not yet had time to read the whole thread just pieces here and there. Lots of good information thank you very much. a week ago I bought an old JLG 40f boom lift. I do not even know the model year. I tried to compare the auction sold lifts serial numbers but they were generally 7xx xxx my own is 52 360 and made in the United Kingdom? I have many problems which needed a help. part of the electrical cables must be changed, repair hydraulic valves and brakes. Hydraulic system has a fault when you use the lift up or other levers the machine is moving slowly backwards I guess that the o rings in valve blocks are broken? In addition i need for electrical and hydraulic circuit diagram. I am also interested of all kind manuals. here in Finland today is-30C (-22F), so it's nice to stay inside. forgive my terrible English, this is partly translated into online translator
Welcome to the forum peters. :usa Your English translator is working well, we can understand what you're writing. We need to know if your machine has Bertea or Racine proportional control valves, and if it uses PQ controllers at platform or Cutler Hammer. You need to make 3 posts to the forum, then your member status will be changed to Junior Member, then you can send me your email address via private message. I can then forward some information to you via email.
how do I find the type of valves? What are the PQ controllers at the platform and Cutler Hammer?
Post #31 shows the different platform contollers used on the 40F for proportional controls. Post #35 shows a Bertea proportional control valve, it has the manual control knobs on it. Post #225, first picture, to the left of hour meter, shows a Racine proportional control valve.
There seems to be the same as post # 225, therefore, Racine Proportional Control Valve. The control levers rubber covers are round not oval.
here are a few image:
Welcome peters yes, you do have Racine Valves and two racine controllers. Good system. I'm not sure about the make of that third controller on the left side (swing?) it must have been replaced at some time.
For peters & 225 - once you've determined that your JLG moving on you when using other controls is NOT an electrical issue........you need to set your null. (center your pilot valves) Refer to post #591 by Voodoomojo - he's marked in red where the null adjustment is on your racine proportional valves. As he points out, drive is the valve section with the large hoses on it. Swing has the built-in pressure reliefs, lift is the other one. The null adustment is on the bottom of the valve, a set screw with a 1/2" (13mm) lock nut on it. Block the wheels. With the engine running on ground control, turn the set screw inward until you hear the hydraulics change tone (the function begins to activate). then turn the set screw out until you hear the tone change again (function begins to activate the other direction). Note the turns or turn it took to get from one direction to the other. Turn the set screw to the middle point and lock it down.
ok need to check centering of the valve before disassemble it into pieces. the seller told me that the problem might be o rings. thanks for the good tip. know-how eliminates unnecessary work.
peters, I sent you an email with the parts manual attached. Let me know if you don't receive the info.
Files that you sent were fantastic. Many many thanks to you willie59. Those will save many hours of work. By the way does anyone know what is the lever on the center of the frame above the rear axle? brake? differential lock? two-speed system? I try to take a picture of it tomorrow
valves on the rear axle Now I took a picture of the valve that I asked yesterday. it is one lever connected to the two valve one side each. what does it do?
WOW those pics bring back alot of memories from when I was first in the field working at the old Prime Equipment!!
I don't know what that valve arrangement would be peters, the only thing shown in the parts book is the transmission valve for the two drive motors. We might be able to determine what the valves are with better pics and what the hoses from valves connect to.
I've never seen anything like that on a JLG before. Lots of extra plumbing in that area too. On the 2 speed option 40F's I've seen they only had 2 extra hoses running to the drive motors to activate the high gear within the drive motors themselves.:beatsme
Thanks for your help OFF. My problem appears every now and than. If the nule adjustment is off would the valve act up all the time?
It could yes. If it's right on the brink of activating that function all the time, any little thing could push it over the edge.
Works Thanks for voodoomojo on and off. when I checked that the fault does not be electrical. Next, I center the pilot valve. Yes it worked.:yup The ghost drive disappeared.:waving
dumb valve Can anyone tell what purpose is dump valve. How does it work? whether it is a normally open or closed? my machine power is supplied for bang bang valves, but nothing happens. maybe dumb valve does not work
It's normally open peters. The flow from the hydraulic pump is directed or exhausted to the tank until the dump valve is energized. Then the dump valve closes off and gives flow to the function required. Most likely there is something stuck in your dump valve and it can't close.
Thank you off (again). I put the valve parts, clean it and put together. yes it works normally. I could not find any rubbish but I think that the valve clearance is so small that it might not find. Someone had done the same work before because the hood was cut a hole at the valve so the job was easy.:yup
Hey Willie59 we just purchased a 15 year old Genie Z45 / 20 and have a minor problem and need some help to get this one fiqured out, the lift works full speed up and down when operated from the ground, when switched to basket the Major boom and tilt boom move very slow with no higher speed action, I took the micro switches and potentiometers and switched them on the tilt boom and side to side rotate and it still moves slow just wanted to verify the switches and potentiometers were good, the dealer we purchased this from told us about this problem before we purchased it but it has become much slower since we have run it a week. the dealer told us it was a wiring issue but since the major boom and tilt boom are both slow it seems like a safety switch issue? we want to try to fix this because our local dealer is not a genie place its a CAT place and I am not sure they know a lot about these units, we need some help to trouble shoot this problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bob K
Welcome to the forum GenieZ45newby. I'm not aware of a Z45/20, are you sure it's not a Z45/22? What is your machine serial number? Is it an engine driven lift or electric lift?
The micro-switches on the controller are what controls the Directional Valve for the functions. Primary Lift Up/Down, Secondary Boom Up/Down and Turntable Rotate CW and CCW. The Directional Valves for these functions are what are referred to as 'bang-bang' valves. That means they fully open immediately when power is applied to them. These valves are located on the Function Manifold which is installed on the Turntable. The Terminal marked 'A' on the Circuit Board for the function is a Proportional (PWM) Output that is wired to a Proportional Valve also located on the Function Manifold. The farther the Joystick Controller for a function is stroked, the more the Proportional Valve Spool will open, letting more hydraulic oil into the circuit to increase the speed of the function. More than likely the machine's problem is a severe amount of voltage drop at the controller circuit board when the controller is stroked. Looking at the attached graphic of a typical control card (OEM), note the + and - that is printed on the control board. With the engine running and your (or somebody else's) foot on the footswitch, using a voltmeter, note the Voltage across terminals + and -. They must be above 12.5 volts in order for the circuit board to function properly. With the engine still running, foot on the footswitch, and voltmeter still on the + and - terminals, carefully stroke the controller in a safe direction and note the Voltage on the voltmeter when the joystick is fully stroked. My guess is the voltage will drop significantly. If this Voltage drops below 10.5 volts, there will not be enough operating voltage at the control card to provide the required power out at terminal A to fully stroke the Proportional Valve for that function. Usually this is caused by the control cable routed from the lower control box up to the platform control box. Especially on older units. Resistance increases as the cable ages. Installing new control wiring from ground control to platform control will remedy the problem. But before you make the large investiment in all that wire, check out a few components first! The voltage drop may come from a different source. With a voltmeter, while engine running, foot on footswitch, and joystick stroked, measure the voltage at both sides of the E-Stop and the Footswitch. Many times there is a large voltage drop across these components. Switch contacts, wires and terminals can cause these drops in voltage. Also ensure that the ground lug at the platform is clean and secure and that there is adequate ground at the platform. Voltage drop can occur from both the Positive and Negative sides of a circuit.
I need the wiring diagram for 40F pwm . I took them the house for safe keeping ,house burned,stuff happens
Good evening all. I have a Old 40F as well, and just today i had an issue with the return chain in the boom. It started to bind up while booming out so i stopped, when I tried to boom in it bound up again and snapped the return chain. Now it booms out smooth in equal stages but will only boom in the center section.(I can push the last stage in or it will fall in if you lift it up) Without disassembling it, i cant tell how it pushes the chains to retract. I was hoping someone had an exploded view of the boom so that I can see what im into. I also have a weak drive issue, but have just been shuttling around the machine with the towbar and my tractor. The machine was saved from the crusher at a wrecking yard now I'm using it to build my shop and house. Thanks for all your help, great thread, great guys.
Welcome to the forum GoJason. :usa It does sound like you've broken your retract chain. You can't see this chain, it's inside the boom. The only part of it you can see is where it attaches to the adjuster at underneath main boom section. You will have to pull boom sections apart to repair it. As for sections "falling in" when boom is elevated, extend chain prevents that from happening and it sounds like it's intact as all sections will telescope out. I would advise taking boom apart and inspecting all components and repair/replace needed components, and given the age of the machine, I would consider replacing the extend chain as well as the broken retract chain. You need to get three posts in to update your status to Junior Member. When you do that, you can send me your email address via Private Message and I can forward some information on to you.
Thanks Willie.you are the man!
Is there a good reason this chain would break? Like I said it started to bind up when booming out, when I retracted, it broke. Is there a idler or sprocket in there that might have broken or seized up. And by the way, thanks for the speedy reply. There is nothing worse than reaching out for help on a forum and waiting weeks or more for a response. Keep up the good work, it looks like you've helped a lot of people.
Rust is most likely the cause. If the chain was rusted in a rolled position over the sprocket, it would break when it was forced to straighten out. Here is some information you may find useful:
Sorry about my first post. I was not sure how to post on this forum. I have a 40-F I bought 7 years ago,when I got it it had been wired point to point,no terminal strips,relays and all stuffed back in the box.It worked fine so i let go, I guessed I was thinking if its not broke don't fix it, but now I only have one function from the ground, boom in and out,any help with the wiring diagram would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Welcome Scott, I sent you a message. Hopefully it goes through ok. You may need to make 1 more post before all the features of the site kick in. I can help you out with 40F diagrams and manuals. Any idea what brand of basket controls and proportional valves you have?
Hello everyone. i have been following this thread for about a month. This seems to be one of the few places on the planet where anyone knows anything about the old f series JLG lifts. My dad has a 50f that we use. It is in really good shape mechanically, hyd. lines, and the electrically lines, however.... the silenoid on the back of the Bertea bank has stopped working. I cannot find one.... it is part no. 464011 according to the JLG dealer. If anyone could help me locate one I would be very appreciative. Please feel free to respond or email me with any info on locating one of these things. Thanks in advance for everyones help!!
Welcome to the forum madbomber. :usa I'm not sure which solenoid valve you're looking for. JLG part numbers should have 7 numbers, seems you have a number missing. The closest number I found to that number is 4640111 which is a Racine proportional valve assembly. I don't know if he can help you, but call Eric at Best Line Equipment in Shippensburg PA, he used to work at the JLG factory back in the day and still knows the F series JLG, prolly better than anyone I know in the JLG parts bizz. 888-321-3217
Welcome madbomber! Any chance you could take picture of part you're looking for? If we can see for sure what it is, one of us might know of something that would work in it's place.
I will try to get a photo. Gone this coming week to training so wont be for a week. The solenoid is a stud with a coil that slides over the top. I assume this would be the dump valve as the rest of the valves on the bank are different and I, again, assume they are the proportioning valves. The coil has two wires that come out, one ground, the other goes to one of the electric solenoids that activate when one of the micro switches is activated on the basket control. I know nothing about these things other than what I have been lucky enough to learn on this forum. Thanks again guys and will try to get a pic up next week when i get home.
And just gonna throw this one up to get my third post.... Thanks!!
In post #35, It shows a similar valve bank. This one also has the hand controls. On the back side on the right, is where the solenoid i am refering to is located. It is similar to the type of solenoid on like a meyer snowplow... only different size. A stud with a cap and nut that hold the coil in place. I have spoken to two different JLG dealers in this area. They both initially said " no problem" only to call back and say.... Dang those discontinued and nobody has one.... hoping to find a guy with an old stock and get lucky. Thanks again guys will check back in next weekend.
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sorry to steel your thread but can post yet but i got a 1990 jlg boom lift and my hydro oil is very milky. how do i got with draining it all? any detailed answers would be appreciated
how do you post a new thread?
welcome! you need 3 posts before you can start a new thread. the hydraulic tank will have a drain bung on it, that's no problem. There will be lot of oil trapped in the cylinders and hoses that's much harder to get out. Normally you would just change the oil you can drain, run the machine for a month or two and then change the oil again. Other method would require removing the holding valves, then manually moving the boom up/down full stroke and in/out full stroke with a crane or loader. That makes a huge mess as well.
ive got 5 and still wont let me post a thread on how to change my hydraulic fluid
thanks for the info, i cant seem to find were that plug is? if i look under the tank its solid metal is it on the side ? also instead of manually moving the boom can i unscrew a low hydraulic line to try and get more oil out? also one last question were can i find the oil capacity for a 40E
also when ever i move forward or reverse its very hash, and jumpy and when i stop it stops on a dime making the entire boom bounce. is this normal? and when i try to turn 50% of the time my left turn, turns very very very slow almost nothing then sometimes it will turn with no problem.
Hello guys. I am working on a 40f myself. I have the original books from jlg here, but the electrical drawings are junk. I could use a line diagram to show me what operates the solenoids and valves. Right now the dump valve for the steering/telescope/basket tilt does not have power. There is a solenoid right before the dump valve that controls the coil on the valve. The drawing has the wire going off into space. It looks like wire 24 on the drawing. From what i can tell the wire for the dump valve solenoid goes up to the basket and dead ends into a diode board in the basket (i think). Its hard to see anything since it the genious who wired the panel left the panel looking like a plate of spaghetti (i would have been fired for leaving a panel like that). A line diagram would help me see how the switches are supposed to interact with the various coils and valves on the machine.
Welcome to the forum terasque. :drinkup Since you reference wire #24, I take it you have a 40F with Racine valves as the steer/tele/tilt circuit for 40F with Bertea valves would be circuit #31. I don't think JLG had line drawings for these machines, all they had were lame wiring diagrams that can be difficult to read. If you look at the diagram for platform, you'll see a red/black-white wire that jumps across terminals at tele, steer, rotate, and tilt switches (shown in circle of drawing below). That's the dump valve activation wire. On the drawing, there's a square box with a 32 inside the box, that means that wire connects to terminal 32 of terminal strip (see arrows below). Wire leaves terminal 32, goes through a diode (circled), and connects to terminal 24 (arrow). Now look at the 16/24 cable at bottom of page (show in circle), you'll see the red/blk-white wire connected to, again, terminal 24. That completes the circuit at the platform. When you operate the steer/tele/rotate/tilt switches, you power up this wire on the 16/24 cable going to lower main control box. View the lower main control box page to continue following the circuit.
Thank you. I see it now with a print that you can actually read. The book's letters are only half legible at best. When I get back to the machine I will post some pics. The machine I am working on is very rough looking. That is my biggest problem is with the prints. I saw the pics posted in the forum and am going to see if I can work with them this week so I can have a readable print. I guess I got a bit spoiled doing industrial electricity with proper line drawings.
You need to get three posts in to drop the Probationary status terasque, then you can send me a Private Message with your email address, I can then forward some better drawings to you via email.
That would be much appreciated. Its frustrating having the book and the drawings are as bad as they are. My gut is telling me to replace the cables and rewire the boxes, but i don't want to spend that amount of time and money of this farmer that i am doing this for.
Just sayin ...h/e hylift ask for gayle harvey... 281-821-4600...supplied me with many drawings and such for my ole units....h-town....texas....take care
Anyone know what the weight is on a 1980 jlg 40f lift is? I need to haul one a decent distance but didn't know which trailer to use in comparison to the weight of the machine. Thanks.
Approximately 10K lbs.
Thanks... I haven't read through this entire thread. Do you know any place to get the manuals (service, repair, parts, etc.) on the 40F? Seems difficult to find much information on these machines anymore. Thanks again for all of your help!
You need to get three posts in to lose the probationary status. Then you can send me a Private Message with your email address, I can send you some info.
Willie59, Would you please email me your parts manual for the 40f. Thanks! Ken
Sure, I'll get to work on it, let me know when you receive them. Should be 3 parts PDF files and 2 service PDF. BTW, would you like for me to remove your email address from this thread so it's not in public view? Welcome to HEF Ken.
Wow this is great . Thanks!!!
No problem. Umm, would you like your email address removed from here?
The fork which holds the Rotary oil coupling broke and after repairing it is bent and will likely break again. All the hydraulics seem to be working fine. Any thoughts to what is causing this?
That's kind of odd Ken. Excessively worn slew ring bearing could put abnormal stress on rotary coupling brace. Aside from that, would almost have to be rotary coupling is too stiff to turn. If that's the case, would require removal and disassembly of rotary coupling.
That's been my thoughts, "kind of odd". I hope I can get my work done before I am forced to disassemble it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and yes you can remove my email address.
Done.
hey willie59 I'm wondering if you could send me the manuals for a JLG Model 40F as well. I've looked everywhere for a manual to help me re-assemble my boom and found nothing
Welcome to HEF jimmy7. You need to get three posts in to change your member status, then you can send me a Private Message with your email address, I can then fwd the parts manuals to you.
Welcome jimmy7, what part of canada are you in?
Alberta
northern alberta actually
I got your PM jimmy7, emails have been sent. I went ahead and sent the service manual PDF pages, service manual ain't that great, but has good electrical and hyd diagrams in it. I hope this helps.
Does anyone still have schematics in electronic form for the old JLG 60? Pleas email me at andy(at)afspivots.com if you do. Thanks
Welcome to HEF Farnhamfarms. Is your machine a 60F? The only thing I have for that model is electrical diagrams for a 60F with Racine valves. They're not the best quality diagrams, but all I have. If your machine has Bertea valves, these diagrams won't apply.
I have diagrams for a 60F with Moog valves & controllers if they will help
How do I tell which I have? Thanks
Check out post #31 in this thread. Your controllers should be either PQ or Racine. The controller that is not pictured there is the Moog. The Moog is a rectangle box with the stick & knob coming out of the side. All metal, no rubber boots or anything.
Should I be able to turn the rotary coupling reasonably easy with the brace removed?
it should turn easily with a bar. Little stiffer than you can turn with your hands.
I have been reading this forum for some time and have learned a lot. I have had a 40f for some time and it does not swing from the basket but works from the ground. I just got another 40f and it has the same problem--does not swing from the basket but everything else works. I think it is the joy stick board on both machines. Does anyone know where I can get a couple of boards? Also the rubber boots need replacing. It has Bertea Joy sticks and Bertea valves.
Where can I find the serial number on my 40f ?
Welcome! Bertea parts are the hardest to find of course. The serial number was on a plate that was attached to the front of the basket post under the control panel. I don't remember any other place on the machine it was stamped.
I was hoping someone would have a Bertea board to sell me. I didn't find the plate, but some one wrote in crayon on my first 40g, serial # 759129.
I haven't purchased any Bertea boards for a long time, it's possible that Hindley Electronics may still have Bertea parts. Worth a call anyway. https://www.hindleyelectronics.com/
Thanks, I will call them tomorrow. Any idea what the part number for Bertea is? My book only shows Moog and Racine controller. I am going to take one of the controls off one JLG and try it on the swing on the other.
Question is, is it a 40F or a 40G? Then again, it may not be an issue if both models used the same controller. I've never worked on a 40G, nor do I have any info on them, so there's no way for me to know for sure. OFF may be able to answer this question.
It is a 40F. I have two of them both have Bertea. The newest one is better, and cost less. I bought it at an online auction for $3200.
Well heck, if it's a 40F, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you some info.
Thanks, I got them and looked them over already. The parts manual gave me the part numbers of the controller, the boards and boots I need. Now if I can just find them. I have read all the posts on this thread and have been learning a lot the past few days. It is nice when you can understand the machine and what makes it work. The info you sent me is going to help alot. I still have a long way to go. I have just Scratched the surface, but am having fun.
Looking for advice on a 98 JLG 40e. She has very little power in forward and a little bit more in reverse. All other functions are normal working order. I tried to load it in cold weather on a trailer and since then has had this issue. Could it be the style reversing contactor? Thanks for any help.
Just got a 40F, its got a few issues. As soon as I get 3 posts in, I'd like the manuals if they are still available? The lift runs good, but the high throttle seems to trip a breaker. I haven't tracked down the mercury switch yet to see if it's busted or what. There is what looks like the remains of an extension cord in the hose channel that goes from the engine compartment to the basket. Because of the throttle issue, it lugs down pretty bad on any slight incline. There is one switch on the panel in the basket that seems to have no function. It's just above the tel. switch, and until I got the deadman switch working, it killed the engine. Now it does nothing... The boom up/down and left/right controls have been replaced with snowplow control switches, which seem to work well. There are some misc. hydraulic leaks to clean up. What fluid would be recommended for cold weather operation? I'm contemplating putting a block heater on the hyd. reservoir, but haven't tried it out yet. Thanks in advance.
Post 2/3.
Also, I am thinking about hooking up an inverter so I can have 110 handy. Do you think the charging system will handle the extra load?
Welcome cafilener! Click on my user name in this post, it will give you a drop down menu, send me an email or private message with your email adress and I'l be glad to send you the 40F manuals we have. Sounds like maybe you need a new throttle solenoid, but you could have a bare wire also. If the mercury switch is broken (located at the back of the boom under the cover that comes off with two bolts) that would certainly make a good short to ground. There is also a Potter/Broomfield relay in the circut (located inside the main control panel). Let the fun begin! Oh.....and the alternator question. The 40F didn't have a great charging system but with all the new high amperage vehicles on the roads these days you should be able to find something nice and small with 100 amps that will fit. A Little creativity goes a long way.
I'll send you a PM in a sec, OFF. The mercury switch isn't visibly broken, but I haven't tested it with a meter. I wrapped an exposed wire on the mercury switch, and at least it doesn't trip the breaker now. Still doesn't have high throttle or seem to have high drive. It looks like I'm going to have to replace the hoses up the boom, they look original and are leaking a bit. When I do that, I'll probably change the fluid. What do you recommend? It's going to get pretty cold here. I've also found a yellow wire coming in the right side of the main panel that is melted to death, I just haven't had time to trace it. With these little exceptions, this seems to be a pretty good machine.
Got the PDFs, thanks much! That'll make it possible at least!
Good luck with the project cafilner. :drinkup
I know I saw it in this thread somewhere, how much/ which diameters of hose go up the boom. It's functioning like it is, or I would take them out and measure them. Also, I know there was a post on the fittings used on those hoses. I seem to be inept in searching here...
Yes, I made up a hose list for OD1 from the factory "build sheets" years ago. I'll find it for you and send it. It's got all the hose lengths, sizes and fitting types. On the fluid question, hydraulic oil has really improved since these machines were built. You can use either an HVI-15 hydraulic oil, or 0W30 motor oil, or synthetic ATF. They all work equally as well in cold.
Man, you guys have all the answers. Thanks.
I am looking for information on a JLG 40G. not to much info out there. build date 7-1981. what is a running machine worth. controls all work, but does not look to good. abot 4500hrs. Thanks
Welcome MF1135. You are right, there is very little info on the 40G available. It is basicly an updated 40F4wd with a sliding hood. I took care of a pair of them in the early 80's and haven't seen one since. Value? A working machine should be worth $5000 and up I would think.......at least in my area anyway. Look for pricing on model 40H (not 40HA) to get a idea what machines around you are going for.
expect to pay/get offers in the $3,500 to $5,000 dollar range unless it has recently been redone. If it has new hoses, cylinder and manifold rebuilds, engine reworked, wiring etc the price may raise upwards to 7K. Many early 40H models (after 1984) are going in this range also. Early 90s are going aroung 10K. Most F and G models are going a different route now. Sad for some of us old-timers, but so goes evolution. Scrap metal prices are now about $200/ton short iron (less than 4 feet in length). $165/ton for long iron. There is money to be made parting it out and scrapping the metal if you have the facility and time. Depending on the engine model, the engine can bring from $500 to $2000. Valve manifolds about the same. Wheels, drive motors, hubs, pumps, controllers, ... there is a market for the parts. The machine has lots of goodies! The iron itself will bring in about $1,600?
i may have a little info....let me check at the shop and i will get back to you.....
Thanks guys, I am looking at buying one. They want $6000 for it, not very much new stuff on it, boom wiring was replaced at one time. Good running engine. Not sure about it.
I am looking for the hydraulic and electrical schematics to a JLG 40F. My serial number is 752589. Can anyone help me? tstitch
Welcome to HEF tstitch. You need to get in a few more posts and loose that probationary status, then you can send me your email in a private message. Then I can send some info.
I like my old 40F, but I am in the midst of redoing the wisconsin engine. I am hoping, when I get it rebuilt, that the machine will go back to its normal ops. The only real problem I had with it was that it would not climb shallow slopes very well.
I would like to eventually rebuild my 40F, so I am open to suggestions on how to update/rebuild it as I start figuring out how to afford it. I passed this summer on a 60F and I think now that I should have gone for it.
Welcome tstitch. I've got a wisconsin engine manual scanned to PDF if you need one. The 40F was never a great climber. Check to make sure your high/low drive is functioning. It will climb much better in low. Lack of 4 wheel drive is what really hurts those machines. JLG at one time made a 2 speed hi drive kit for the 40F with 2 speed drive motors that really perked it up. Speed wise at least.........
what is the procedure to take out the motor
I had an outfit that says they have a manual for my lift for $99. Does anyone have any thoughts? I did give them my serial number as well as the model number. Also, got the engine rebuild done and fired the engine up today. We will tweak it next week to get it smoothed out, but I am excited that I am getting it done. Also, I have a simons aerial at40c that is throwing me in for fits now. It seems to be a simple lift, but boy does this old stuff give me heartburn......
Simple.....my guys had the engine out in 45 minutes. Hardest part was getting the hood off.....pretty straight forward.
now that is the machine I always wanted to own! Ford F350 4WD running gear Does it have the Onan or is there a Deutz in it?
It has the Onan engine. Just figured out yesterday, that the Onan was not putting out enough electricity. When I put jumpers on from my pickup, the lift started working fine (except for the steering which I am ordering new solenoids - those puppies were expensive - I did not have a brand to hunt a substitute). Looks like your machine is in decent shape. My is not pretty, but as soon as I get it running smoothly, I will have it painted. Do you have a place to get parts?
I don't have one, I have always wanted one. The photo is one that sold for $2300.00 I missed out on the sale. I did find one for $500 but the F350 running gear had been replaced with a cobbed-up installation of 2WD components. I passed.
What is all needed to be done to be able to tow a JLG 40G lift, 4wd? unlock hubs, open steering valve. Anything else? How fast can it be towed? Thanks
Don't forget the tow bar. Going on memory, but I think JLG recommended a max speed of 10 mph.
I am looking for a parts manual for a JLG 40G, does anybody have something?
I just got a 40G 4wd. Checking things over on it and was wondering what type of hydraulic oil do you use in it? Does anyone have any info on the hydraulic hoses on it, like lengths or do you just get them custom made.
I've got nothing on the 40G. They were only made for 3 or 4 years in the early 80's and never that many made. Even the parts manuals won't tell you hose lengths and fitting types, just the JLG part number. You'll have to get them custom made "as per sample" unless you can find a JLG dealer or serviceman who hung onto thier 40G stuff and still has the build sheets. For oil they used HVI-22 hydraulic as a middle of the road. Colder climates HVI-15, hot spots HV-32. They'll also work just fine on ATF or even motor oil like 0W30 if you can get a deal on one of those. Most parts you'll need won't be unique to the 40G so you should be able to find them.
Just purchased a used JLG 40F lift and have some switch issues. The valves work manually but the switches do not operate some of the valves. Can someone point me in the right direction for a copy of the manual for wiring and hydraulics? Thank you.
Welcome Cudaman! Just send me a private message or email with your email address and I'll be happy to send you the 40F manuals.
Thank you very much OFF!!! I have sent a PM. Tom
Hello this is my first and I am also looking for a set of manuals for a JLG 40f. I was able to get a 40g manual off the jlg site but there are to many differances.
Welcome Birk7 You just need to make 2 more posts and then PM me an email adress where I can send the manuals to. You found 40G manuals? There's some people on here been looking for them.
At some point I saw that someone was looking for 40g manuals. i went straight to jlg and it was the oldest one they listed. No help to me...
I just wanted to take a quick second to post a HUGE "THANK YOU!!!" to our member OFF. He took his own time to provide info/manuals for my JLG 40F that I might not other wise find. Again, THANK YOU!!!!!!! :salute:woohoo
Time to get back to work on my JLG 40F. I have two problems one is with a leaky solenoid whitch also has a small rod or button that has popped out on the top of it. The other problem is it does not always turn left. I don't know if the two problems are related. Still in need of prints.
Click on my username at the left Birk7, it will open a menu where one of the choices is "send private message". Send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward you some info on the 40F.
welcome back. Now that you've made 3 posts the PM feature is activated and we can send you stuff. It is very possible the leaky solenoid you speak of is a Racine solenoid valve controlling your steering. However, Check your toggle switch and make sure you have power output from there all the time. Always check the simple things first - start at the first link in the chain (toggle) and work your way down.
First things first I'd like to thank Willie59 for the manual. I think it was written for my lift it was built in 1980. It has helped me find a lot of problems. Right now I'm working on a speed problem. The lift, swing and drive will not go into hi speed. There was and still is a problem with the dump valve associated with these valves but I don't know if that is my speed problem. Just to let everyone know my backround is Electrical/ electronics I'm not to good on the hydrolics. Any thoughts on this speed problem???? Thanks
You should have 2 toggles switches on your basket control, one is "high engine" the other is "high drive". High drive only effects the drive speed and will only function when the boon is below horizontal. It's your road gear. High engine adds approx. 1000 rpm to the engine speed, again only when the boom is below horizontal. you should be seeing approx. 1400 rpm on low, 2400 rpm on high. If you have no high, the circuit runs from the toggle switch, down the boom to the main control box and into the potter/broomfield relay. One leg of this relay runs up to the angle sensor on the rear of the boom. Originally this was a glass mercury switch. Very fragile and commonly broken. The dump valves don't normally give a problem, what does act up is the 12 volt solenoids that control the dump valves. The are mounted to the cross member under the engine. You may not have even noticed them.
OFF, I have repaired the wiring to the dump solenoid and replaced the bad relay. The RPM increases but the movement speed does not. Somebody had been into the dump valve and now when you assemble it the needle is set into the port. As though the solenoid is on. I was hoping to find a breakdown on the dump valve to see what I am missing... Parts or knowledge?
Birk7, do you know if your lift/drive/swing valve bank is Racine or Bertea? Bertea has a big knob each end, Racine has little pins you can push to activate the function when on ground control. is the function speed slow whether you're on ground or basket? I have a Racine manual on PDF, but it's at work and I'm off today. I'll get it to you if you have racine.
OFF, They are Bertea, Could you tell me the function of the dump valve and what might be the result of it not working. thanks
the dump valve......dumps the hydraulic flow & pressure from the pump. When you activate a function or step on the deadman switch, the dump valve closes and supplies pressure to the control valves. The rest of the time the dump valve is open & flow circulates back to the tank. If it's leaking, you would see slow functions/low hydraulic pressure. Get a gauge on it, see what pressure you're running compared to the spec in the manual.
Hello. I am trying to ID a machine I'm looking to purchase. I have photos. Could I send them to you to take a look at? I can't find a nameplate anywhere. Thanks - Dean
hi guys I have been reading through this thread and have learned a lot I was wandering if I could get the wiring and hydraulic diagrams for my dads 40f I believe its the bertea the machine was given to him about 6 years ago we started to work on it then it got set to the side and left alone I don't know much about it but I know the boom raises and lowers and the basket tilts and the steering works (atleast tries the end of the ram broke its weld and isn't connected at the moment) but it wont telescope in or out spin either way or drive and he has decided to scrap it if we cant get it going thanks adam
I would love to get electric & hydraulic schematics for a 40F also. A service manual would be great too. Can anyone help me and adamj???
Welcome. Yes, when you and Adamj get 3 posts it will open up the private message system and you can use it to send me an email address I can send the pdf files to.
Thanks OFF. This should make my third post, I'm still trying to figure this Forum out.
Can anyone tell me if this is a JLG 40F??
got to work on mine today found out that it had the racine valves but one of the main valves that come from the pump to the block of valves that controls the swing, telescope, and drive the solenoid wasn't getting enough voltage checked with a jumper wire and now everything seems to work on it
also found out that it weighs so much that it mars up and I got it stuck in the driveway and will have to have my dad help with the tractor to put it back in its parking place especially since I didn't get to weld the steering ram back so it doesn't steer
It's been reported to that the 40F weighs either 12,500 or 14,500 pounds. Two people, two answers, I don't know if either is correct.
Yes, that's an early 40F, I'd say pre-1977
I am new to posting but own a 1978 40F and have been reading regularly and felt I should respond to this post. My lift has manual bucket swivel.
Welcome to HEF RSIGuy. :drinkup
OFF, I'm new to the thread but have a mid 70's 40F and am in the process of re-wiring the machine but looking at all the systems while its down. What is the fix if you are out of room for adjustment on the brakes. Also, big question is while doing a function test on the systems (auxiliary pump mode) one drive motor does not spin, I have both removed from the hub to check seals etc. which made it convenient to do the electrical test but we're scratching on head why one one motor spins. Any help would be appreciated. BTw Racine valves on mine. Thanks.
Thanks for the welcome! I have been learning a lot form you OFF and numerous others over the months just reading the thread. Quick question if your still on, I know I saw it somewhere in here but running out of time to review all the posts do you know what the two side by side valves (Racine) exactly do mounted up on top. We have the others mapped and labeled but confused on them believe they are high drive?
Willie, was it you that had hydraulic filters available if so would like to purchase one?
I'm new here and not having any luck searching for other threads on a JLG 40F. Does anyone know of others?
OFF, looking for a filter are any available, thanks.
Welcome RSIGuy Between the frame rails on the drive end of the machine you'll see a removable cover. Under it is a valve block called a "transmission valve" that controls the flow of drive oil. Sounds like maybe one of the spools is stuck. Try swapping hoses from side to side on the block output side and see if your drive wheel changes.
I have one #2120055 filter left. Have you priced one out from your local dealer or rental company? Might be cheaper than the postage to send you one from here. Edit: I just pulled out the new filter and a tape measure, did some searches. Try either a Baldwin PT579 or a Wix 51436. Measurements are almost dead on and they look very similar in the picture. I'm pretty sure they are the same filter. Check it out.
This is the main 40F thread. There may be a few other smaller ones dealing with specific problems or something like a Wisconsin engine thread but most of it is contained in here. What'cha lookin for?
Best way to tell what that is - pull the wires off it and see what stops working (pretty sure that's high drive alright)
Thanks a bunch! As you may have guessed we're unsure because of the fact one drive unit isn't spinning. I attempted to try the swap you suggested but ran out of time. Two more questions if I could, is the other side of that the high speed valve low speed and since I'm a novice on hydraulics is the spool fixable (providing I knew what it was) should that be the problem?
I'm just ALWAYS looking for more information. I've only scanned through these 746 posts and am amazed at the content, it's already answered a lot of my questions. It's great. BTW, I just struck a deal for $2K on my 40F. Now if the snow ever melts in northern WI I can hopefully tow it to my property up there. I see you're a bit farther north than I am...
There is only one drive valve. It's in the group of 3 valves mounted low in the chassis. (lift/swing/drive) Hi drive will be a single solenoid valve that opens & adds extra hydraulic flow/increased volume to the drive circuit. As far as that transmission valve goes, you should be able to save it just by taking it apart and cleaning it up, looking for broken springs, making sure the spools operate smoothly in the bores, etc. Rust is enemy.
Hello Gurus of the 40F! I can't seem to get a good answer on the hydraulic fluid around here. The manual calls for Sun 2105 and no one can find it or a crossover. I've looked into a bunch and the viscosity index (170) is throwing me for a loop. What should I put in there? BTW OFF, thanks again for the last reply's and was able to cross those numbers to a Napa1436 so will take the old one over there shortly to make sure.
What we always used in them was a common #22 hydraulic fluid. That was the standard. In colder weather however that didn't work very well (-20 to -40 range). We've also used ATF, synthetic ATF, and 0W30 motor oil.
Hydraulic Fluid Thanks again! What a difference talking with someone who knows these things.
I'm out working on the lift and electrician Bud has a question: per the manual schematic it shows a select relay and a high drive relay we never ran across either one, are they not on all models? One other question is the high drive solenoid mounted on the rail with the rest, we wouldn't be asking stupid questions but as with most posts I've read the wiring has been #%****%^***, the only original was going up the boom?
I had a thought is it possible there is nothing wrong with my drive motor because we only tested it in auxiliary power mode, should I wait until Saturday when I run the motor to bring full pressure before I swap motors and tear into transmission valve? Just thinking.
Yes, wait and see. You may only have had enough volume to drive one wheel and not enough to center the spool.
crawl under the engine and look up. Mounted to the cross member behind the engine and maybe on the sides on the frame you will see solenoid style relays. 2 of them are for dump valves, one for the horn, and if there are 4, one will be for the high drive. All those solenoids are together, yes. In the main control box there is a Potter/broomfield relay but it's function is high idle. If there is a select relay it will also be in the main control box.
OFF, you are amazing on these machines! How did you learn these things so well?
Well.....I was a young mechanic, they were new, everybody was scared to work on them. I'm a firm believer in "if you don't know how it works, you don't have a hope of fixing it" so I jumped in with both feet and learned. The company I worked for owned four or five 40F's, a 50F, about four 60F's, and an 80F that all required a lot of TLC. I understood them, I loved them, and I kinda miss them. Crazy huh? My glory days.
Makes sense. I was a electrician/electronics tech for 37 years at the same place (city government) and got real good at what I did. I also loved my work, made the time go by quickly. Thanks OFF.
Thank you again ! My Bud isn't to excited to find that out about the relay since we have to backtrack a little but now is the time to correct the years of bad mechanics. Excited for Saturday she should be coming back to life!
Thank you again ! My Bud isn't to excited to find that out about the relay since we have to backtrack a little but now is the time to correct the years of bad mechanics. Excited for Saturday she should be coming back to life!
Saturday was a very good day, the old girl has life again! All electrical systems except the clogged air filter light are functioning normally ( just working in reverse and not even critical). There's still a glitch with the right side drive motor, it spins slower the the left. I'm not sure if it the spooler or because the brake solenoid isn't opening enough or a combo platter. I got the engine oil flushed and changed hope to time it and fine tune the carb today. She has had a little back pressure for two years and blows a little oil out the breather but with luck she'll keep humming until next winter and can get a proper once over. I'll post some pics when I can resize them. Does anyone know where there's a decent 60 for sale, now that I'm figuring out these things a little bit I would like to have another one like it. That works well for a Restoration Contractor having antique machines.
Almost ready! We're just a glitch or two away from a wash and wax:cool2
Very nice looking machine! I don't remember them looking that good when they were new
Thanks, she not bad for an old gal. Do you know from the serial number what year it is exactly? My manual says 1978 and when ordering parts in the past JLG can't locate the number in their system it's 731766.
That's an old girl alright. Build date on that machine was 12/21/1976 according to JLG.
No doubt Old, does that mean it's really valuable being a Bi-Centennial built rig :usa Just kidding, didn't work out for my Millenium Harley. What do you think about my issue with the drive circuit assuming you got it, I never tried the private message feature until then? If electrical is verified correct and it doesn't activate High Drive where do I look next? Rick
yes, i got your PM just didn't have a chance to pull out the manual & look at it. High drive is powered by the last section of your main hyd. pump (the section furthest from the engine). Follow that hose, look for places you can pressure test. It runs to the high drive solenoid valve, then through a one-way check valve, then the hi drive flow joins the regular flow going to the drive/lift/swing valve bank after going through the high pressure filter. You said your hi pressure filter light was on, maybe it's blocked? Do pressure tests all along that circuit where ever you can. That's the first step. How's the rpm on your engine? Are you on high engine and is it running at 2800 rpm on hi engine? On low engine you won't feel a difference between hi & low drive. You need in the range of 1600 to 2200 psi pressure. Locate that check valve and confirm that it's functioning - take it out and play with it - you'll be able to tell if it's working or not. Good luck
Thanks again, I'll have something to do Saturday. I'll let you know how it goes.
Success, all systems are a go! :drinkup We figured out why High Drive wouldn't engage, there was a .7 voltage drop across the high drive solenoids (forward & reverse) so we are adding a relay to isolate them and will be good. I got my packing kit for drive motor so only a couple things left to wrap up. We have systems on their it never came with, should be a breeze having it certified. Thanks to everyone for their input. I also ordered a Manual that covers the Wisconsin VH4D pre 88' so if anyone needs a diagram or anything let me know.
Hello All. I need to tow a 70's vintage JLG40F. Ny machine has a tow bar and already has the tie rods disconnected from the steering cylinder. I know I've read things previously in this thread about a hydraulic valve for isolating the drive motors from the drive wheels. I also understand that max towing speed is 10 MPH because of the gears in the drive wheel transmissions. My machine is completely old and dead and I have to tow it about 20 miles on low traffic, country roads. I just bought it and need to get it off the guys property before he sends it to the scrap yard. Can someone please tell me what I have to do in order to tow this thing without damaging the drive system. I can't find this information in the manual or this thread.
I would double check with OFF but I believe along with isolating the hydraulic drive motors which I believe is the black knob located just to the right of the main electrical panel you have to reverse the caps on the drive hubs. I'm only going from what I've read as I have never towed mine anywhere. I would like a good photo of your tow bar when it is out of the snow so I could make one. I hope that helps, good luck.
RSIGuy. These are some of the pics I already had.
Actually, the black knob selector valve inside the engine compartment is to allow steer cylinder to move while towing, no need to disconnect steering linkage. And yes, the drive hubs should have disconnect caps on them, secured with two 1/4" bolts. Remove the 1/4" bolts, remove the disconnect cap, flip the cap over so the tip points inward. Re-install the 1/4" bolts and tighten them evenly. This allows the tip to push the hub disconnect rod inside the hub. Once the cap bottoms out, hub should be freewheel. Be sure and chock the wheels before doing this.
Thanks, those should be sufficient. I had an idea there was something unique with the attachment to the lift but its not really. Good luck with the tow, twenty miles should be interesting.
Good to know, I may try a tow someday soon, perhaps from the garage to a job site if it ever turns to spring. :Banghead:Banghead. Thanks for the extra knowledge, I don't know what I would have done without the help from you and OFF during this rebuild.
Thanks very much Willie. That is the first I heard about the disconnect caps. Since this apparently disconnects the wheels from the gearing and hydraulics, am I still limited to 10 MPH? The steering cylinder was disconected from the tie rods by the previous owner so they could move it around on the lot, but the cylinder is extended and in the way for towing, so I still need to retract it. I assume that once I find the bypass control I'll be able to push it in with a bit of effort??? I'm going to post a pic of my engine compartment in hopes you point out the bypass valve for me. Thanks.
Do any of you helpful guys know what this pulley/sheave is for? Along with the slot to the left it looks like maybe some kind of a winch path??? I just bought this old beauty and haven't investigated it yet.
It's been a long time since I've been around a 40F, but seems I recall the steering bypass valve between engine and the frame that boom is mounted on, has a black push/pull knob on it. But since cylinder is already disconnected and you need to roll, you could get in the platform, operate the steering, and retract the steer cylinder out of the way to accomplish mission. As for towing, 20 miles is way pushing what JLG designed towing for. Not saying it can't be done, I don't know. What I can tell you is yes...low speed towing only. The reason being is that the disconnect only disconnects the planetary drive hub from the drive motor/brake unit. But when you're towing is this state, the gears/carriers in the planetary hub are still rotating, and they're not designed for high speed operation. Tow too fast and you can damage or grenade the planetary hub. One option would be drain oil from planetary hubs, remove hub cover, and remove the planet gear carrier. Re-install hub cover and fill with oil. If you do this you would only be rotating the bearings in the hub, no danger doing that. Of course, can't address how the machine would react to higher tow speed as I have never gone there.
Thanks Willie. Sounds like a flatbed tow truck is a lot less risky and maybe cheaper than damage I would cause. Engine is currently seized and aux emergency pump didn't want to move the steering cylinder. I guess I'll be learning all about these things in my future. I'll be asking a lot of questions too unless I send it to the scrap yard.
another idea for you, check what the capacity of a car dolly is. Maybe you could rent one, put the drive wheels on the dolly, your steering would be locked with the cylinder hooked up again.....away you go at what ever speed you like. No matter how you do it, it'll be an adventure. By the way, I've never seen a 40F with a steering cylinder arrangement like yours has. The ones I've seen all had the cylinder mounted parallel to the steer axle. Not sure if yours is very early or very late production. Not mid stream, that's for sure. Edit: just looked at the new pictures you put up. Very early production.
I do not see your valve in the picture, mine is located in that open space just to the left of the oil breather and is a screw type knob. Yours is different from my 1976 in a lot of ways and it appears (correct me if I'm wrong Guru's of the 40F) you have Bertea valves and all our electrical strips are in a much to small box where yours are mounted.
I've seen a lot of those steer/float valves on the opposite side of the machine too. Between the engine and the hydraulic tank. I'm starting to think JLG didn't build 2 machines the same in those early (F series) days.
That is the idea I was getting too. The manuals are close, but nothing seems to be the same. Did you see the picture I posted of the pulley/sheave? I don't know what it's for.
Yes, I saw the picture with the pulley. I've never seen that on any other JLG before. And to make it even stranger there seems to be a slot in the chassis cover that lines up to it. Maybe a winch option? Or a winch was installed at some time? A winch would certainly be usefull on a 2wd manlift. any extra/unexplained toggle switches or controllers in the basket that might have operated a hydraulic winch?
Do I remember someone here speaking about the oil filter for the Wisconsin engine? I'm thinking someone said a normal style oil filter would fit, but that it's supposed to have some kind of a special, rather unusual oil filter? My old machine came with a Hastings #424. Is that proper?
The Hastings 424/Wix 51106 is the proper filter for that machine. Kind of an odd-ball thing and quite expensive. I have seen Wisconsin engines the same model in other applications (like pumps and farm equipment) that use a normal spin-on however. Either way, it's not a "full Flow" filter system. It's just a by-pass filter. Meaning, all the oil that leaves the oil pump does not go through a filter. Only one small stream/passage is filtered. 1940's technology at it's best. You might be able to find a spin-on filter adapter at a farm equipment wrecking yard. Old Swathers used that engine.
Thanks OFF. That Hastings 424 "appears" to be a standard looking, spin-on filter. I did not see any other attachment method, but I just looked quickly. You're saying it does not thread-on like a modern oil filter????
It may look normal on the outside but it's got external threads on it much like the threads on a mason jar (canning jar) rather than threads in the center. Retail on a Wix 51106 or a NAPA 1106 is about $34 for some crazy reason. My price is about $10.50 when I get common spin-on filters for $3 to $5 normally. Pricey for what it is.
I have a Napa 7011 (spin on ) on mine but I'm not sure it is correct as I've had to tighten it with a filter wrench and it still seeps a little bit. I'm going to check with our local implement store and see if the carry the two OFF stated above to see if they work better. Do you know which Wisconsin model you have, mine is a VH4D.
I looked up the NAPA 7011, looks like the same type of filter as a 1106 and it's cheaper.
Thanks for verification, I will check on the 1106 at Napa see what they get for them here.
OFF, are the threads all universal? If so I would be wasting my time looking at others I suppose.
Looks like a 4D
I just talked to my parts man at Bumper to Bumper. He has a WIX 57011 (Napa 7011). He says is has that reverse, mason jar type of thread. It's about $26 list and he will sell it for $16.
Yes, it's a 4D. If yours is still running you're in luck because they seem pretty tough. Mine has been rebuilt once and she's using oil and blowing a little back out the breather/filler but purrs like a kitty. I'm going to watch for a better one to replace or rebuild while mine is still working ok. All my wiring and switches are new now so not much to go wrong. Glad the filter worked out.
The motor on mine was seized. After soaking the cylinders in oil for a week, it still wouldn't budge. I pulled the heads off and water poured out. I tried to tap the pistons free, replaced the heads and then filled each cylinder completely full of WD-40. A day later, I actually got the crank to move a bit with a wrench. I slowly worked it back a forth and it freed right up. Now with the plugs removed (no compression) I can move the crank with my little finger. Next problem. When I pulled the heads off, one of the 34 bolts broke and I have to get that out. One side had 2 head gaskets on it, which tells me the something is warped or the head was surface ground too far to allow proper clearances. I haven't even looked for proper valve operation yet and the thousand other things after that. All my switches/wiring is original, so I have a long way to go.
Sounds like it you may as well rebuild it since its half way apart, as long as the bones on the lift are solid but it's probably pretty hard to know until you put some power to it. It will be interesting to follow along. Did you pin down a build date? OFF found out mine was built in 1976, yours looks quite a bit different maybe older. They built a tough machine though mine appears to have all the original hydraulics except for 1 or 2 lines.
I can't find a serial number on mine, so don't know the exact production year. I have a summer project I need the machine for and don't have time to do a rebuild of anything. Hoping to get it limping along for the summer and rebuild it later.
I want to give a shout out to everyone who helped me this winter especially OFF for the valuable insight into my 1976 40F. :drinkup. Pat my electrician buddy was phenomenal and we could not have done with out everyone's insight or posts. All systems are go, she got a head to toe degreaser bath Sunday, all covers re-installed and is ready to make some money! So, if there's anything I can do to help anyone else I would be glad to offer my services in return. I'll get an action photo when I can and post it. You can also check us out at restorationservicesinc.com. Thanks again!:salute
Hi all. Another new owner of an old 40f. Pretty decent machine needing some of the same TLC they all seem to. Like everyone, am looking to get a copy of the service manual with schematics and wiring diagrams. They are a bit crazy to figure out without one. The main issue that's developed is with the toggle for in/out of the boom. I have checked both toggle switches and wiring, and it all seems good up to the circuit board. I get steady voltage at the solenoids both directions, but the relay on the circuit board, which I believe runs a check valve for the cylinder, is erratic on the 'in' direction, but good on the out direction. Does power feed to this through the diodes and/or transistor on the circuit board? any help?
Looks to me like the 1106 and 7011 use the same mounting system (external mason jar thread). I think either one will work for you.
Sounds like your machine has had a hard life, but if you got the engine to move (pistons moving in the cylinders) you should be able to bring it back. Those head bolts did like to rust up and break off alright. Certain head bolts see a lot of heat on those air cooled engines (like between the cylinders where there is no air flow). Not much you can do except drill the broken one out and use an easy-out or other extractor on it. Heat might help. Be sure to run a tap through all the other holes, blow them out and apply something like never-seize to make it easier to take apart next time.
Thanks OFF. I was thinking about no-seize but I wasn't sure they would hold their torque if using that. I feel lucky that only 1 out of 34 broke.
I'm curious how's it going? Did you get that motor to breathe fire yet?
I've been away from it for a while, but I'm going back to it today. How did you know???? Maybe your perfectly timed question will give me luck. I did get the pistons free a couple of weeks ago by filling the cylinders with $22 worth of WD-40 and "encouraging" them to move. Maybe we'll be breathing fire soon!
Good guess I suppose? Good luck. You think you spent a lot on WD, wait until you change the hydraulic fluid & filter theres about a $400 in that reservoir.
A gallon of WD-40 in the ACE store in Crivitz, WI cost me $28. A day later I was at Menard's in Green Bay and it was $14.
boy would i be interested ? you bet i wood
She breathed fire today!!!! I had to take the heads off again because the back two exhaust valves were rusted solidly open. After I finally got the stems loose, I gave her some clean fuel and much to my surprise she fired right up after having the back two pistons seized up for several years. The boom went up/down, left/right and in/out. The bucket controls need work so I don't know if it steers or travels yet, but I've jumped 98% of my hurdles!!!!! I've worked professionally on electrical and electronic control systems for the last 38 years, so I'm thinking that stuff will be simple for me.
That is awesome! I'm shocked that thing lives and so many of the controls are working. Seems odd it wasn't still in use.
Got to the bucket today, everything worked. The only thing I didn't test was the high speed travel. I feel very lucky.
I would say you're lucky! I had many more problems with mine and it was in use everyday, but no longer. The new wiring head to toe is a total success. I only have one issue left, I have put 2 high pressure seals in one of the drive motors and it still appears to be seeping a little. If it ever stops raining I could verify that. A mechanic that used to maintain it said he thinks internal parts may be worn enough to allow blowby. The biggest issue is it seeps onto the tire delaminating it and pretty soon I'll be on a tube (it's foam filled so it can't go flat) but don't want to replace it until I get it solved. If you or anyone out there runs into a drive motor with 2 hoses (plus brake) I would be interested it it.
Hi guys, I have a 40G that i'm working on and when I drive it and try to steer it the machine stops moving until you let go of the steering switch then it moves again. It was working before then it just started doing that? Anyone have any ideas?
well, the first thing I would do is hook a volt meter up the ignition terminal of the basket controls, see what voltage is with the engine running, then while driving, and when steering. If the voltage drops off drastically when you steer, you've got a short t ground someplace that's hoggin all your power.
I would agree. We had the same problem before we rewired, a little hesitation or even a stopped in it's tracks.
Hello again guys I had to rewire the 40f I was working on. The basket control box was smashed and the wires looked like a plate of spaghetti. Lower box was the same. I sent the joysticks out to the shop in bowling green ohio for rebuild. All seems ok except the racine valve bank. One coil has a broken wire and all three banks only function in one direction, up only, forward only, and one swing. I could use some coils for sure if anyone has a source for some. I found the entire bank but no parts (4700 $ from jlg). I don't remeber seeing comments on the racine controls in the forum but I might have missed it. Some input on that would be nice. All three joysticks will produce voltage in both directions so I am thinking bad coils maybe? Definitely need one coil for sure to replace the broken one. Thanks again everyone.
Hi terasque, the JLG part number for those coils is 7000406. I don't have any left but if you give your dealer that number he should be able to order them for you. It's amazing what you can still get for the "F series" when you've got the part number. I should have a Racine part number for those coils as well. I'll dig around for it. Another very valuable part number - 7004831 That's the seal kit for pilot section (servo section) of the Racine proportional valve.
Racine part number for those coils - #493871
Hi Guys. You may remember my old 40F, at least I think that's what it is. I got it recently and the two rear pistons were seized with rust and the same two cylinder exhaust valve stems were seized. This was a result of rain/snow water entering view the exhaust pipe. I managed to free them up after several days of oil, trans fluid, WD-40 soaking, gentle taping, working them back and forth etc. I installed new head gaskets and much to my surprise it started. It runs fine until it gets hot and then stops. When I start it cold, there are no crankcase breather fumes/smoke. After about 3 minutes, smoke starts pouring from the breather (oil fill cap) and about a minute later it seems to load up and quit. This is all at just above idle with no hydraulic loading. I thought I was over all my major hurdles with the motor, but I guess not. This is a VH4D, mid 70's build. After it quits, it will not restart. The next day it starts fine and then has the same fault. Someone please tell me this is won't cost me a bunch....
Grovecomm, I'm no engine guru but sounds like rings are shot. A good motor guy told me the reason it would blow a little oil through the breather is either rings or valves but most likely rings. Mine has a little blowby on high engine under a load like driving for extended periods. We didn't do a leak test because I'm sure it's one of those issues and I'm going to rebuild or replace next winter since everything else is nearly perfect. As for it quitting when hot I don't have much to offer, a guess would be so much oil is sliding by the rings it gets loaded up and stalls or maybe a bad coil. I'm sure someone with more motor skills will shed more light on it.
The bad rings alone shouldn't kill it. There must be something else going on. Is it running out of fuel maybe? That takes about 3 to 4 minutes at an idle. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge you could check with? Do you have access to one of those infra-red heat sensor guns? If so, check what temperature the cylinders are getting to when it shuts down. Does there seem to be lots of air flow around the cylinders? Depending on how badly those rings are siezed in the pistons, they could loosen up in time (some additives might help too). It wouldn't be that big a deal to pull the head again, drop the pan and pop out a piston or two either.
Thanks again. Parts are on order. I can't believe noone could cross reference this after calling 3 or 4 jlg service companies. The only manual I have is one I got from here so I gave them the numbers from that. Again thanks all I will keep you guys updated if it starts working properly. I will see if I can get you guys some pics of what I got pulled into on this.
hey plaese help lol i cant read load charts why is there a mm number beside the weight at max reach?? i dont get it
Hi to all, just registered after finding this site last night. Found a lot of info after reading all 55 pages till 2.30 this morning. I am repairing a 40fc that is a basket case. I have never seen a thread go this long for so long. Great site.
I told you I'm not an Engine Guru :notworthy. I did have a problem with mine like that a few years and it was the fuel pump combined with a bad line and clogged filter. I wish you were closer, sounds like you could cure my last ailment with the blowby.
My one friend within the communications trade. i exploit miles of cable. If you ever would like cable talk over with ME initial. The cable he's victimisation on the 40F is OLFLEX AUTO-116 awg Hi-Flex 600 potential unit ,25 numbered conductor. half dozen greenbacks a foot. It's rated T1 that is that the rating for receptacle usages. He additionally|also can|can even|may also|may** get SAB cable half # 07761625 also sixteen awg twenty five numbered T1. it is a very little niecer and smaller in Defense Intelligence Agency. nine greenbacks a foot. SAB sells it for nineteen greenbacks a foot.
OFF, what do you know about the 45HA I saw one on an auction site, 1991 about 2200 hours? It looks like it has a 500 lb battery pack for it.
I've never worked on or used a JLG electric manlift so I can't say. I'm sure Willie59 or VoodooMojo could offer and opinion an opinion though
OFF, I have a dilemma. The second set of high pressure seals are leaking on one of the drive motors. I have been lead to believe that the tolerances may be off enough that there is extra blow by thus weakening the seals very quickly. Any experience with that situation? I hate to just start ordering shafts and who knows what else but since JLG doesn't support them any longer running low on options.
aside from wear, the only other thing that will cause seal failure on a drive motor is a plugged case drain hose. You should have 4 hoses going to each motor - 2 large ones and 2 small ones. 1 small hose goes to the brake, the other small hose is your case drain. Make sure your case drain hose goes somewhere and is not capped/plugged/crimped. It should be free flowing back to the hydraulic tank. If you don't find a problem there, any hydraulics shop should be able to fix your motor. Find out what brand it is and check for dealers in your area.
I have a loop for you. Mine has 4 lines on the left but 3 on the right motor, I'm reasonably sure they're all good though. Is it one or both of the shafts most likely that would have worn down allowing blow-by. If so, how will anyone know what original specs are. Is that info out there someplace? I will look at the tag and see if I can find someone alive who still makes that brand.
both motors should have 4 lines. Is it the right motor that is leaking all the time by chance? In the maintenace manual, page 2-24, check out figure 2-18 Drive Circuit Hydraulic Diagram. It shows both motors with case drain lines "T"'d into one hose that runs through the swivel and back to the tank.
I just acquired a JLG 40' lift, I do not know exactly what model as it was repainted at some time to the newer off White / Orange paint scheme from it's original Yellow. It has the Wisconsin 4 cyl, is dual fuel, 2 WD and has the Racine valves, I think it's a 40F, however I can not find any ID plates on the machine that tell me for sure, Should there be one, and if so, where do I look? Thanks, Pyro
Hey Pyro There are no ID plates but there is a serial number located on the main frame just below the the turret. It isn't deep in the metal and could be filled with paint. It's on the vertical part just below the swing gear. Post a picture of the rig. and another of the engine compartment.
Hey Torquer Great comment man. You can thank JLG for that. I repeatedly tried getting help from JLG and they just left me on hold or told me someone would be getting back to me. They just do not care about these older units at all.
Thanks, I will take a look for the serial number tonight, here are a couple of pics from the auction I got it from, hope these help.
Welcome! Looks like a newer model alright. Should have a serial number plate on the front face of the big square tube that the basket controls mount to. Under the control box, just about where the basket hangs on the hooks. That's the original location. Serial number, rated capacity and the basket size.
and Welcome back od1! Long time, no see just look what you've created!
Thanks, I will see what is there tonight. Based on the yellow paint inside the engine compartment I am pretty sure it's from somewhere in the 70's, but it only has a little over 3300 hours on it, and the meter works. Runs great just one issue with the Auxiliary Power and the Down control via the Stick in the bucket, already ran out of fuel up about 30 feet, had to call my wife to rescue me....
Hi Off Is it the older ones that have it near the turret? That's where mine is.
yes, the older ones had it just about anywhere. They standardized after a while. Can't remember if the newer ones still have it stamped into the turret as well or not.
Hey OFF Thanks for the heads up. You've been busy here. Very well done my friend.
That's funny. The same thing happened to me but she couldn't turn any of the 3 valves. I had to wait until my son came home from school.
Man there's a ton of new information here OFF. I'll have to do some reading for-sure. I'll catch up with you in a day or 2.
My wife gave us a hard time took a few pics the. Let us down. I looked for a serial number no sign on control post or turrett. Is it on the tube or on the flat? The under side is definitely gold yellow. Looks like the rental co that had it at one time wanted it to look newer. When I repaint it I want to go back to original all colors.
Well, the post my basket and the controls mount to is round and there is no plate or any indications of stampings there, I looked all around the turret did not see any indication of any numbers stamped there, but could be filled with paint, where should I scrape try to expose the SN? front, side, rear of turret and how far down? I would like to figure out for sure when it was made and what model. Does anyone know if there is a spare set of wires that run up to the basket from the panel at the engine? I want to add a seperate toggle for down only tied to the same output that the toggle at the engine uses for down to be used only when using the Auxillary power. Planning on putting a seperate relay that is powered and can power the solenoid directly rather than have all the voltage drop over the roughly 80 feet of wire up to the basket and back. My thought is that by doing this, when i run out of fuel, that control will actually work and lower me, unlike using the aux power and the down stick, which only gave me about 5 foot of drop before it stopped working. Has anyone else encountered this and is this a good fix???
I haven't seen a 40F face to face since 1998. That post is where the tag used to be on a lot of machines. Look on the top of the frame rails inside the engine compartment too. And on the top of the boom just down from the angle indicator. I believe there were spare wires in the main harness. If you get really stuck there is always the A/C recepticle wiring (most of them had it) that you can take over & use. That gives you 3 - 14ga conductors to play with.
OFF, SOS!!! I'll go back to drive motor later but I just sprung a leak in the Swing Motor and there's no parts breakdown in my manual. When we took off the cover theres a disk with 2 brake calipers, a hydraulic solenoid to actuate them. We washed it down and tried it, the fluid appears to be coming from under but that area was loaded when we took the round cover off????? Is there an oil ring under that assembly or do you have a parts breakdown on that. More good news an hour later one of the Cutler Hammer Joysticks is free wheeling all the sudden. I hope I can fix it tonight, I've had them apart a few times already.
My "76" 40F has one on the top of the boom near the basket. It looks original!
no breakdown on swing motors, sorry. You'll have to remove the brake and get a look at the seal. Maybe you can get a number off it and buy one at a bearing store. Or pull the swing motor and take it to a hydraulic shop. Have you ever checked the system pressure on your machine? I do have a new Cutler Hammer joystick though.
Still not seeing any numbers, I have over 50 acres of hay to do right now, so unless it's raining I won't likely have time to look any closer, I did look at all these potential locations and it looks like just smooth metal. It is "dual fuel" does anyone have any idea as to when that option was offered, I am thinking it may help me narrow down what year or at least closer? Still pretty sure it's a 40F, but the control panel does not look like the one in the manual for the 40F... Here is a picture of the controls, I know it's not great, but does this help at all to figure out approximate age/model?
Just by the layout of your machine and the PQ controllers, I would say it is fairly late production. 1978 or newer.
Thanks, I have to say, this site, and you guys are a life saver. I really like my machine and expect I will have it a long time. I do have one other dumb question, on mine the Alternator is actually way way too close to the oil filter, so much so, that the previous owner actually dented in the oil filter to give clearance to the alternator.... The belt appears to be way too short, does anyone know what the correct belt number is??? I see the tension bolt on the belt appears to be in the wrong bolt hole.... Likely due to the belt being too short, the belt also looks suspiciously new...
couldn't find a belt number for you, certainly sounds like it's too short alright. Maybe one of the other 40F owners have a alternator belt with a visable part number on it?
Thanks for the response, I can't access the forum on my home Ipad for some unknown reason all the sudden so couldn't response last night and just got back from the job tearing it open. I got the stick fixed but should still get the one from you for a back up. I took the drive motor off and going to take it into a Hydraulic Shop that works on lifts but a little afraid since these guys are famous for big prices on repairs, apparently the guy who put the seals in the last 2 times doesn't sound like the wise choice though. BTW there is not 4 lines to it or anything plugged off, strange since both Hydraulic schematics show 4 . I've got to get it to stop leaking so I can get some new skins on the rear. We took the brake off the top of the swivel and replaced the flat o-rings but there is still seepage from the center shaft and without much to go on for a parts breakdown I didn't want to pull it completely off with no idea how or if parts were available. Still no pressure check done. Do you think anyone has a breakdown on the swivel motor?
Pyro, I just left mine but I'll ask one of the guys to look for a number or measure the length. I know there is a tab mounted at the base of the engine for the bracket. I'll see if he can take a pic for you. I may need a direct email as this forum requires photo's to be compressed (at least from my camera phones).
RSI Guy, I am currently working on an early JLG 40F and it does not have a case drain line from either travel motor. The rotary manifold has the port in the post but it is not threaded for a fitting. Should be easy enough to thread the post and add the line, just take a 1/4" line from both motors, install a T and follow the travel motor lines up to the rotary manifold and tap into the bottom of the post. From the top of the rotary the line T's into one of the existing drain lines on the side of the hyd. tank towards the bottom. One travel motor on this machine also keeps blowing the seals out when they try to use hi drive. This should solve the problem.
Excavator, thanks for the guidance. It sure seems strange, it's been like that for 36 years before it started leaking and why they didn't put one in originally if the schematics all show them???? It's not the first time I found something that isn't like the manuals though.
A question for the more knowledgables on this subject. This machines spec plate lists it as a 40, not as a 40F. Did JLG build a 40? Like RSIGuy said, there are a few things on this machine that are different than the 40F manual shows. Just curious.
OFF would know. I know there are several other 40 ABC models but not heard of just a 40.
Does anyone out there have a parts diagram for the Swing Drive Motor? I have fluid coming up through the shaft under the brake assembly. I have it on a job site and would like to order the parts so I can fix it in place and get it back in service right away.
Nevermind. I took it out and it appears virtually identical to the drive motors. Upon disassembly I found the high pressure seal to be torn. Now to just get a seal quick and put it back together correctly.
My JLG 40F periodically does the opposite that it should. When you want to go down it goes up. Sometimes it will only go up. Forward will make it go back. Boom swing left will go right. Sometimes they all work correctly. Any thoughts?
Have you looked at the switches in the control box, they may be corroded or as most of them are had bad electrical work over the years? If it was all the time they would just be reversed either on the switch or the solenoids but doesn't sound like that.
RSIGuy, glad to hear you found the source of the problem. I would have liked to help, but I'm totally new to these myself. I am sure I will learn much more as I use mine more. Hope you can get back up and running soon!
The switches seam to be fine and yes it's just periodically not all the time and different commands at different time. I'm thinking it might be something closer or including the solenoids, but even that doesn't make sense to me.
We put it back together before lunch, waiting to hear if all is good when he gets it in and puts pressure to it.
does it ever happen from the ground controls or only happens from the basket?
We are all dry! A successful repair on a swing motor without a drawing.
Could you possibly give me a contact number. We have a 40F and our schematics are incomplete and the parts book is incomplete. Thanks, Jerry
Here's my private email, not sure you can access it through here yet [email protected] Rick
Got a question for you 40F owners. I've a chance to get a one. It doesn't run and the owner said it has wiring control issues. He says it weighs 20,000 lbs. I'm more inclined to believe it weighs in the 12K range just like other driveable 40 footers. What would you guys pay for a lift like this. What did you pay for yours. Oh yeah, OFF, as soon as I determine which set of solenoids it's got I may need a copy of the schematics. If you would please.
Welcome hjm1216 manual says approx. 10,000 lbs total machine weight. what's it worth? I'd say anywhere from $1000/$1500 for something that doesn't run up to about $5000 for a machine in good condition. The biggest problem with them is that they are 2 wheel drive on a solid chassis. They are not off-road machines. Get your 3 posts in so the private message function kicks in, then PM me an email adress and I'll send you everything we have.
Thanks for the welcome. And wow, only 10,000 lbs. The owner was talking about yanking the motor and selling the rest for scrap. He'll get less than what he thought and still have the labor of pulling the motor. Though his has it price about right I'm glad you pointed out the rigid frame. I didn't think about that when I looked at it. He said he replace a bunch of hoses and it didn't look terrible but there were more that would need to be replaced. Just a fair to decent machine. I'll go take another look at it later this week. I may just have to spend more repairing my Workforce (Bil-Jax) 4232. Major telescoping cylinder leak. Thanks, hjm1216
Winconsin 40 engine JLG 40F I've never worked on a Wisconsin 4cyl. Anything particular I need to be aware of? I'm a fairly accomplished automotive and small engine gas mechanic. I plan on taking the normal steps. And if you advise me to be aware of the yellow jackets and red wasp I've already taken care of those bad boys. Hopefully I got them all.
It's just a big Briggs & Stratton. PM me if you're interested in those JLG 40F manuals. Got a Wisconsin engine manual on PDF file too.
I concur with OFF. I paid $3,400 for mine about 5 years ago and it worked nearly perfect. Since then I have rewired it head to toe and parts ran about $1,800, that included all sorts of switches, new boxes, getting the onboard generator redone etc. I'm getting good at seals in those drive motors too but I can't find a tool (the little sleeve to install them without gauging them up) for installing them. OFF, do you know where to get one or will I have to make one?
I don't know of anywhere you can buy that sort of thing. Make friends with a machinist and get him/her to whip you up a couple. Semi-hard plastic works really well for seal drivers
That is what I thought. We have a couple of Machine Shops here so I may be in luck. It will probably run more for the sleeve than the seal but my guess it won't be the last time I need it.
Hello! I am new to the forum, so please excuse my interruption. We've recently acquired a JLG 40F at my work, but no service manual can be had. Searching the internet has brought me here. I'm looking to obtain a service manual, all I can find online is the 40H, and I don't know that its similar enough to be used for basic things like tire pressure. Luckily, ours works pretty good, looks like someone dropped in a different engine over years- and I'd like to keep it that way! Thanks, you guys seem like you are an invaluable resource for older equipment, which we have a lot of. shopgirl [email protected]
Welcome Shopgirl. You are correct, this forum is invaluable for those of us that own these beauties. There are a couple of super knowledgeable folks like "OFF" and "Willie" that keep a pretty close eye on us amateur 40F owners. I know OFF has Manuals in PDF form he has emailed folks. I have originals and never scanned them. You will be lost without them.
wow.. this is quite the thread. I've recently purchased a JLG 60G boom lift and am trying to track down any manuals or diagrams that will help me get this thing back to work. any help or info would be much appreciated. thanx in advance
info coming at you. Welcome to the forum
Welcome dieseldogg. 60G was a very rare machine, I've never actually seen one in the flesh. No manuals I know of for your machine. 60H had a lot of new stuff added, a big change in thinking as far as design goes. The 60G might be closer to a 50F or a 60F. What kind of engine is it? Air cooled or liquid cooled? Hopefully someone will read this and offer up a copy of a 60G manual. There are people looking for a 40G manual as well. What part of Canada are you in?
Thanx for the welcome OFF. I'm from B.C. I see you are in Alberta. I have relatives in Leduc, Calgary and Westlock. My machine has an air cooled Wisconsin. VG4D? It's an 81 that was always stored indoors and used very little. It has a few issues with it that I'm hoping will be minor "lack of use" problems. I'm new to the heavy equipment game but with the purchase of this lift and jd310d backhoe i'm hoping to gather some literature and jump right in. I plan to start a new thread on this machine soon so prepare to have your brain picked. Thanx again. Rick
I recently acquired what I believe to be a 40F here are a couple pics and the SN is 730226 Also the main wiring is shot on top of the boom. From the ground all was working except lift. Now lift and rotate don't work.
Rhino, having that battery hooked up backwards will have damaged any curcuit where there is a diode. (one way valve) Like your alternator for example. It has 3 diodes that convert A/C current to DC current. When it was hooked up in reverse you had a direct short to ground. Not sure if your old Moog 40F has other diodes (maybe in the foot switch) but if it does they will most likely be cooked, depending on their function. Something else to look at when you lose drive/lift/swing from both basket & ground is the dump valve relays. They are mounted on the frame members under the engine/hydraulic pump and look like a silver Ford starter solenoid. There should be serveral of them down there, one for each dump valve, one for the horn, possibley one for the throttle.
There are three relays across the frame. One for sure is for the emergency pump. The other two I'm still working to identify their use. There are two diodes on the terminal board at each the main and basket. The ones at the basket are broke for sure. The two at the main terminal board I will test soon.
Dieseldogg, I have a set of 60G manuals, a service and maint. manual and also a parts manual. I don't know when I will have time to copy them but I'll see. What part of BC are from? I'm just 4 miles down from the Aldergrove crossing. OFF, I also have a parts manual for a 60 GX. Do you know the difference between the G and the GX?
The X is for extendable axle
Question answered! Welcome Arials R us! & thank you
Were you able to find the Serial Number location? I have a 40F also and it's been repainted several times. (painted over and over, I should say) if you could give me a really good description on it's location I'd be extremely grateful.
I'd be interested in getting a copy of those 60G manuals too Excavator - just to have for the future when people come looking for them.
Trying to get a handle on this. This place has a lot of great information. I need to replace the steering cylinder seals on our JLG 40F machine and can't seem to locate the serial numbers. It's been painted 3 to 4 times so I'll have to scrape some paint to find them, just hoping not to scrape too much. Any idea on a precise location(s) on the serials # would be super helpful.
I haven't "touched" an F series JLG since 1998 so hopefully one of the guys who still have one will pipe up with the serial number location. I "remember" the serial number being on a plate either attached to the top of the boom by the basket or on the post under the basket control box. Seal kits are tricky - JLG used cylinders from at least 2 manufacurers and they're never sure which cylinder your machine has.
OFF, thanks for the info. There are no plates with numbers to be found, (just hazard/warning plates) I'll give it another day or two to see if anyone else can help out and then I guess start hitting some areas with stripper and see what I can find.
Alright, going to pick up my 40F next week. Hey OFF, I'd like a copy of that manual please.
Hi hjm1216, shoot me a private message with your email address and I'll send you a copy of the 40F manuals.
Will do. As soon as I figure out how. "Reply with a PM" is not an option for me. I'll have to do some research and use the search feature.
Just left click my user name in any post and it will drop a little menu down. One of the choices given is "Private Message". And welcome to the Forum BTW
Yea, I tried that. Only options are " View Profile" and "View Forum Posts". [email protected]
manual sent. You'll want to remove your e-address from your post.....just in case.
I can handle that part.
Hey guy’s what’s shaking? I was in touch with JLG this week to try and find out what type of platform this is. I purchased it a few weeks back from a surplus dealer. JLG told me it was designed to be hung from a Boom Truck cable. There is no markings on the control panel or the basket. If anyone knows anyone with a Boom Truck who might be able to identify it let me know. I want to use it on my 40F but I hate to pull it apart if someone can use it as is. I’ll post a couple of pictures of it.
Hello, can anyone recommend a good place to get Parker tell tale filers for the 40f?
the main hydraulic filter is a Baldwin PT579. Wix 51436. NAPA Gold #1436
Hey OFF, Do you still have any Cutler-Hammer Joy Sticks?
I've got 1 left. That's the whole controller body and joy stick. If it's just the contact blocks you need they are common items you should be able to pickup at almost any electrical supply store.
I have new micro switches (last year) in a new box but last summer the tip of the stick broke off and we welded on a little nub but it occasionally acts up so thought if you still had one I would swap it out and keep the old one for backup. What would you need for it?
just putting these part numbers down for future reference. Cutler-Hammer controller on the 40F: JLG #4360078 Cutler-Hammer #10250T451 RSIGuy, message me your mailing adress and I'll check on shipping cost.
Does anyone out there have a drive motor (3160027) parts diagram?
That part number is officially dead acording to JLG, and they don't have a scrap of information left on it either. There is a parts breakdown on page 5-30 of the service manual however.
Thanks again for the tips. Thats not good news on that part number but potentially good news on the repairs! We were down to our last two seals and put one on the drive end of the shaft installed it and of course the rear end at the brake started blowing fluid. We pulled it back out and replaced it and it appears to be holding (fingers crossed). We had a heck of a time figuring out how to get that on there without tearing one or both of those little seals but one of my guys may have stumbled on a little trick for others that find themselves with a leaky drive motor. He took a 3/4" socket which fit inside the high pressure seal snug but not super tight and heated it a little with a heat gun (on low, carefully) then worked it around in a circle multiple times then slid it right on the shaft without driving it on or tearing it. We'll drive it for a couple days and see if it holds then hopefully I can get new skins before I leave the entire rubber tread on the ground. About a 1/4 of it already fell off from the hydraulic fluid leaking on it, the only reason it's still upright the rears are foam filled. I'll keep you all posted.
http://www.epm.com/jlg.htm Nice link for JLG hydraulic cylinder seal kits using JLG part numbers.
Indeed! Thanks.
OD1 or others... I didn't read through all 62 pages of threads, but Willie59 is correct on Bestline Equipment..They are in my area and I use them all the time for boom lifts (anywhere from 40' to 120') on our jobs and job sites. I have a great relationship with them and are absolutely fabulous to work with. The Shippensburg spot isn't far from me (like maybe a 1/2hr)...The Shippensburg site, is more for where they have the older lifts that they keep to sell or for some storage of newer ones. Also, JLG themselves have executive offices in Shippensburg, Pa as well. If any of you need anything, let me know, and I can point you in the right direction as to who to get in touch with to help you out... Josh
Hi guys. I just acquired a JLG40F. It's not a complete basket case, but it's gonna need a lot of TLC. It did actually unload itself from the trailer, which I consider to be quite an accomplishment. I've read the first 9 or 10 pages of this thread and I am thoroughly impressed with the information I'm sure must be contained in here. I'm eager to get started overhauling this beast. I've got a lot of reading to do from the beginning of this thread. Any advice you could give to get me out of the "starting gate" would be appreciated. Where to start - where to start. I think pics first....then a good steam cleaning will be in order to get all of the caked oil, grease and quarry dust off. Although it may be all that's holding it together.
Welcome to the site Jonesy! Picture are always very welcome and they help us help you better when we can see what you have there. Get 3 posts in and then private message me your email address so I can send you the operators/service/parts manual set in PDF.
Attached a couple of pics of my new rig. As I said, it needs a little work. I found out from the previous owner that he had installed new wiring harnesses twice since he's had it. It had a rough, dirty life in a stone quarry. OFF - I really appreciate the offer of the manual.
Here are a couple more pics of Dino (the rock quarry dinosaur).
A few pics of Dino's heart and soul:
Wow Jonesy! I can tell you it's an early model by the basket shape and the way the hoods are held down. It's also got a brand of valve we rarely see. We had a 60F with those valves and they were virtually trouble free. That may be the reason this old girl has been able to avoid the crusher for so long. Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you those manuals. To send a PM, just click on my user name in this post and a menu will pop up. Choose the "private message" option. Your ladder (cable tray) sure needs some work but in most cases they are repairable.
This thing was spewing water/oil out of the breather when I unloaded and parked it. My plan is to change the oil / filter, run it for about 15 minutes, then change the oil / filter again. The engine has no identifying tags. I'm pretty sure it's a Wisconsin, but I have no idea what size. I need to know so I can get the correct oil filters, plugs, etc.
They have a tendency to get water in the oil pan when left out in hard rain/snow/weather. You probably need a drain & refill. The engine is most likely a model VH4D. Plugs are NGK #AB6, Champion #D16. Oil filter is a NAPA #1106 or #1072 depending on age. if it looks like a normal spin-on it's a 1072. if it looks like the top of a glass jar when you screw it off, it's an 1106. I don't see an alternator hanging below the oil filter where it should be. You see an alternator anywhere on that engine? Hopefully it's got more than a flyweel alternator. That will never keep up to electrical demand.
Wow, what great forum! Thank you so much! I am a new owner of a JLG 40F (I have previously owned a 50F). When I purchased it, it was only partially working on auxiliary power. Using your threads I was able to diagnose and repair a bad dump valve solenoid (and 3 burned jumper wires linked between the solenoids) as well as free a stuck steering spool. The only thing that is still giving me fits is that the auxiliary power will not run the joystick valves on the platform just the toggle switches (I recall my 50T had the same problem), any help on this would be awesome. Besides that it seems to be working well except for ram leaks, unfortunately, I do not have a parts manual (or any manuals for that matter) to locate the correct part numbers. I see there have been numerous manual requests throughout the thread, if someone would be so kind as to forward a copy of the manuals to [email protected] I would be hugely appreciative. By the way, according to the posts I have Racine valves (round boots). Thank you!
Welcome copperdon! Manuals have been sent. You may want to edit your email address out of your post.
Invaluable! Thanks OFF, I really appreciate you shooting those manuals over you are a life saver! I am not sure how to edit a previous post, I tried clicking every link related to my account and posts without success.
So far, so good. I got the cover off of the engine, then changed the oil & filter....it was pretty watered down. Ran it for 15 minutes...#4 cylinder was running cold. Changed the oil & filter again, and replace the spark plugs. Actually running on all 4 now, and the oil on the dipstick looks reasonable. I'll probably change it again after a couple of hours run time. Actually sounds pretty good, considering it was running with a high percentage of water in the crank case. Off, you were right on with identification...even though I haven't seen any tags or stampings, I'm satisfied that it's a VH4D, NGK AB6 plugs, and a Napa 1106 filter. Wisconsin has a nice website with specs, part numbers, etc. to help identify stuff. Your question about the alternator has me baffled. I don't see one, and I don't see where one has been removed. Yet, the machine has apparently functioned this long. However, I don't know if it functioned well . My next move is to steam clean the entire machine so I can actually see what I'm working on.
every Wisconsin powered JLG I've ever seen had an alternator hanging below the distibutor and driven off a pulley. Normally Wisconsin engines just have a flywheel alternator for charging. I suspect it wasn't enough to keep up to the electrical demands of a JLG. It's all they used on a Condor though (another manufacturer of manlifts from the same erea). Is there a pulley mounted on end of the casting the distibutor goes into?
Given the vintage, it's very possible the engine has been changed out to a VH4D that didn't have the alternator pulley.
Manual valve operation Hello All, I did a search and must not be typing in the right thing but... Can someone tell me what "function" these manual valves control? I have a JLG 40FR (1978) I'm having switch issues I think but want to manually control the valves to drive forward or backward as a test. here is a pic of what I'm talking about. There are 6 total. When I first purchased the lift a year ago, the previous owner turned them to show me what does what but I forgot. Plus not sure if I have to do something after I turn them in. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. Tom
Those are manual controls for the valve spools Cudaman. If I recall correctly, the knobs are free spinning, you have to push in on the knob slightly while turning until they grab threads. Once it does, screw the knob in until it seats, this shifts the spool of that particular valve section, but in order to make a function work you would have to power up the dump valve solenoid for that control valve.
Thanks Willie, Do you know what valves do what function? Also, you say "power up the dump valve". Is that using the foot peddle in the basket? Sorry for the dumb questions here. thanks, Tom
Tom, on those 3 valves in your picture, the valve with the largest hoses coming out of the top of it will be drive. You can power up the dump valve by switching to ground control. Or while on ground control, activate either lift or swing and that will supply hydraulic pressure to the valve bank.
Thanks a bunch OFF. So it's the valve closest in the picture with the turn knobs? I turn one valve all the way in and with pressure, it should move one direction? Then open it up and screw in the other to go the opposit dirrection? Does that sound right? I don't want to blow anything up so that's why I'm asking.
I closed the valve to which I think is for the drive. None of may switches in the ground position work to rev up the motor (another issue) but I used the foot switch in the basket which did rev the motor. No movement happened that I could see. Am I missing something? Thank you, Tom
It's likely you're not getting input to power up the dump valve for the proportional valve, you may have to power the dump valve with jumper wires until you get the machine sorted out.
Drive Speed I haven't posted here in a while because my 40F has been working pretty good for an old gal, but it's always been a little slow traveling. Now it's gotten to be painful to move it any distance at all, it moves maybe 1 mph max forward, and in reverse about half that. I'm kind of leaning toward the motor system because the other 2 proportional functions (lift and swing) are pretty good, and if I'm not mistaken, work off the same dump valve. If I kick the RPM up it helps some, but if I switch to "hi drive" it just loads the engine down. Any ideas will be much appreciated!
Sounds like more of a controller problem to me, like the drive valve isn't being opened more than a little bit. What brand of controllers does your machine have? Racine proportional valves?? First thing I would do is compare the drive controller output to the output of the functions that work well (lift & swing)
Thanks Off, the controllers are Racine. I think I remember checking the output of the controller before but I'll check it again. What's confusing me now is that the hi drive just loads the engine down and doesn't make it go any faster. I'm guessing that the 2 may be related. Also, the other functions "seem" to work ok. That's an assumption on my part because I have nothing to compare them to, for instance, how long should it take to swing 360 degrees, or to raise the basket to 45?
the bogging down in high drive is what makes me think the valve is not getting a signal to fully open. With the valve only slightly open, a certain amount of oil will pass no matter what. When you kick in high drive, it doubles the volume of oil trying to get through that restricted valve. The oil backs up, the engine boggs down. I'm assuming your pressures are good because the boom will lift. When pressures drop off the first thing to go is boom raise. It requires the most effort. The manual states the boom should go from ground level to maximum elevation in 60 seconds. maximum elevation to ground in 45 seconds. Speed is listed as 0 - 1 mph on low engine, 0 - 3 mph on high engine, not very fast at all.
I did some testing today. The boom goes all the way up in 45 seconds and comes down in 31, that's with the boom retracted and the engine at slow. It swings in a full circle in 1:20 sec. The speed forward is just under 1mph and with hi drive it's about 1.3. Reverse is about 1/2 mph slower. Of course the speed varies depending on her mood and she was in a good mood today. The swing seems kind of slow but with the boom extended it can still be exciting, so I think that it's fast enough for me. I didn't have time to check the controller today but I'll get to it next week and let you know what I find. Dave
Hello OFF, Any chance I could get the copies of the manuals for the 40F as well? (XXXX.com) I am particularly in need of the parts manual; need to rebuild the steering cylinder. I notice JLG has a lot of manuals online, but not for some of the older models. http://www.jlg.com/en/parts-services Thanks.
Welcome! Manuals are on the way. You may want to edit your post and remove your email address. Good luck with your 40F
Too much time has passed for him to edit a post, but I removed the email addy now that now that you've sent the info. :drinkup
Hey OFF was also wondering if I could get a copy of the manuals for the jlg 40f? Having a problem when I move the telescoping cylinder oil is pouring out of the bottom of the turntable motor. Any additional ideas or advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Hi Joel, sure I'll be happy to send you the manuals. Just send me a Private message with your email address and they're yours. You must have a bad hose someplace. I'm thinking if the telescope cylinder was leaking the oil would pour out the boom, not the turntable. Watch from a safe distance, and if you're moving hoses around with the engine running - always use a stick, not your hand.
I've looked pretty hard in hope for leaking hose but cannot find any. The only places I see the telescoping oil and turntable motor could come together is the manual descent valves or the solenoid valve block. I plugged off the two hoses going to the manual valves, thinking a valve might be bleeding by but no luck. I'm also thinking maybe the manual could give me an idea about a possible check valve that let go. Rather than getting into the solenoid valve block.
Hi OFF, I've just acquired a 40f of my own. Most everything works, but it has a cobbled mess of wiring. Looks like a lot of valued engineering. Foot pedal disconnected, Alternator not working... looks new, but may be miswired. I would really appreciate it if you would send some manuals. Serial #765820. Does that make it built in 82? Thanks, Rob
Need to get my 3 posts in so here's another question. Noticed the machine didn't want to move real well and only one tire was spinning. Removed the hub and found the planet carrier missing from one side. Any thoughts on where to find one?
Hi Rob, Welcome to the forum! 1 more post and then private message me your email address and I'll send you the manual set. Sounds like your machine needs a bit of work. I wish you luck finding that planet carrier. Maybe someone here knows where there is a parts machine with the hubs still on it. That's going to be a hard to find item for sure.
Sadly...agreed.
I did find a used one for sale in Kentucky that looks to be the same. Maybe he will part it out or for the $1500 bucks just buy it for spare parts. Do you know if the years have to match for the part to match or did they use the same carriers for different models or years? Any ideas on the year of my machine off the serial#? Thanks!
I would recommend you put on the whole hub/planetary assembly from the other machine. Or if both are good on the parts machine I would even change both on yours to stay as a matched pair. Hubs do come in different ratios and JLG is famous for having components supplied by more than one manufacturer. You don't want to be instaling a brand X carrier ring into a brand Y hub.
I've been rewiring a 60F for my brother-in-law and the Racine controllers are questionable to say the least. They are the same as the 40F, the JLG part number is 1600001. I'm wondering has anyone tried installing newer style controllers? I saw a dead one at an auction that had different ones but they had no part numbers or anything on them and being dead really couldn't test it to find out how well they worked. Any thoughts?
Well, I've never tried changing brands of controllers, but JLG used both Racine & PQ controllers on "F" series manlifts with Racine valves. I could see changing to "F" series era PQ controllers. However, Later JLG's - the "H" series (ones that still used Racine valves before they changed to Vickers) used coils of a different value in the valve pilot sections so they would not work. Newer than that? I do not know.
Progress has been slow on rebuilding my 40F, but things are moving along. I have traced all the wiring from the basket to the relay board, and pulled all of the wiring and basket operator switches. I've procured SAB wire to replace everything. Since the basket has been severely damaged, I'm going to pull that off next, pull the two hydraulic lines, and paint the boom. I found a switch down inside the control tower that had been taken out of service. I think it's a high/low speed switch for forward/reverse ground movement. I traced the wires down to two valves that were disconnected. The hydraulic lines from those valves head down into the bowels of the machine - I suspect down to the drive wheel motors, although I haven't taken any covers off of the lower unit yet. Does this sound reasonable? I'm assuming that the previous owner just used the machine in low travel gear all the time. Therefore, I may end up with problems with either the control valves or the drives. We'll see.
I can't see anyone purposely disconnecting high drive on a 40F. They were pretty slow with out it.
Could be that they were having issues with the mercury switch he located in the boom and decided to disconnect it rather than replace it? The switch on my boom seems to be acting strange this year, runs fast up to a much higher point than when coming down it does not go back to the faster mode until almost to the ground. I believe last year, it was pretty consistant at about 8 or 10 foot from the ground it would switch from high to low or vice versa.
I'm looking for a full wiring diagram for a 40f. The images I have seen on this site are to not clear enough to be useful. Thanks!
Hi, what brand of valves and controllers does your machine have? The diagrams are all slightly different for each one.
I believe they are the "Racine" valves, is that what you need to know? If not where would I find this information? Thanks again
Ken, check out post #31 on page 3 of this thread. It shows a picture of the different controllers. Let me know which one you have. I've got schematics specific to each valve/controller application that I can send you (better than what's in the manual)
Yes I have the controller labeled Racine.
Hi Off Any chance I can get a copy of those manuals! Looked all over internet can't find them for the 40f!
no problem, I just need to know an email adress I can send the PDF files to. Private message me - you may need a few more posts before you can do though. and welcome to the forum
I've got 3 drawing for you, private message me an email adress and I'll send them to you.
Hi Guys, Another bod here in Ireland just got a 40FDR & needs a manual, a lot of the wiring needs sorting out (!)
Do I need to post again to be able to send a PM?
Or is three times? (sorry) Reading thru' the whole thread now. Fantastic information here, huge thanks to posters
Welcome Mike! I think it's 3 posts and you are there. Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you the manuals in PDF
Hey OFF, have you kept track of how many manuals you've sent out. It's been a bunch and I want to thank you for being so willing to help people out on the 40F's.
Thank you excavator! I have no idea how many 40F manuals have been sent out. For sure more than 20, could be as high as 50. Willy has sent out a bunch as well. I'm amazed every time a new "F" series JLG shows up on the forum. The good thing is, everybody on this site is very willing to jump in and help. That's what makes it such a great place. I'm having a blast and glad to be a part of it.
That's the part that gets me, I'm amazed there's still so many of the dang things still out there! There's a reason JLG doesn't have the manuals on their website, they expected them to be scrap iron by now, but apparently they still live in great numbers.
To Willie59, ... Hello, ..just joined the forum here, ..My father and I just purchased a JLG model 40F, for $2500, ..in great shape from a hospital here, ..problem I'm having is on the joystick for the drive/steer side, ..the stick sits in the middle of 4 micro switches, the stick itself is worn out, and have looked every where on the net to find a new one with no luck, ..the micro's work fine, ..its just that the spring that is on the shaft of the stick is broken, and the stick is bent and out of round where it makes contact, ..other than machining a new stick for the unit, ..not sure if you new of a supplier that still has these ,or where to get them from, ..I got some pics here of the unit, ..and joystick,broken spring,..ty, George
http://www.plccenter.com/Shop/CUTLER%20HAMMER/10250T451/USPP?source=GoogleShopping&IgnoreRedirect=true&gclid=CPCkqYyl48ACFcRzMgodBjUAXg Nice looking machine there George66! Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forum. Here's a link to the controller you're looking for. It's made by Cutler/Hammer and the C/H part number is #10250T-451 JLG part #7003721 That's the only style of controller that has steer on the stick along with drive. If the link above is not what you have, put up a picture of the controller/basket controls.
Thank you Off,... I'll check the link and parts #'s ,...really appreciated, ty.
Yep, OFF beat me to it, looks like Cutler Hammer to me as well. Welcome to HEF George66. :drinkup
One more post after this I can pm you Off to get that manual! Just took the big boom cylinder off and had it repacked. Not leaking any more! Not a bad job but very heavy!! Just purchased the 40f has a couple bugs to work out. It sat for almost two years. Any ideas why when the boom is extended out 1/2 way or more the boom will drift with the wind in neutral position. If its retracted below 1/2 it holds tight? The fluid is not low its right in the middle of the add mark and full. Thanks for any help on this!
Just more info on the above post when it drifts it will drift left to right or right to left. It does not drift down.
But it will still swing when you ask it to swing? We are talking boom swing and not basket rotate, right? When you grab the basket, can you push the whole boom sideways? Swing (boom) has a brake section on it between the swing motor and the swing gear box. Sounds like your swing brake is not braking. It's spring applied, hydraulically released. That's where you need to look first. It's a pretty simple assembly, just a piston, some clutch discs and plates and bunch of springs.
Yes its the swing boom. When the boom is extended beyond the half way mark you can grab the basket and push the whole boom. Do you have to take the swing motor off to get to this brake? Besides this issue the basket rotate is not working, I am hoping its just the switch, I haven't checked it yet. These are the two major problems left with the old lift! It goes very good on hard level ground it does not like soft or non level surface!
Ok, your swing brake isn't broken it's just weak or out of adjustment. Have a look at your swing motor, is there a cover on top of it? Is there an external brake disc and 2 pads on a caliper under that cover? There were 2 types of swing brakes used on the 40F, let's determine which one you have. As for the operation on soft and uneven ground......it's a rigid chassis and that's just the nature of the beast. You can get yourself out of some spots by swinging around so the counter weight is over the drive wheels rather than over the steering wheels. Aside from that, there's not much you can do. They are not off-road machines
Thank you OFF for the manuals. I have a feeling I will be looking at them everyday for a while! I think I found the problem with the swing brake. I saw a small drip of fluid coming from the cover. Took the cover off and brake is covered in hydraulic fluid. It has a leak! I could not pin point where leak is coming from it was getting dark. I will look in the morning. Hopefully easy fix?! Maybe Hose to piston or piston. Not sure what else it could be. But the oil on brake I am sure is making it slip.
You have an external disc swing maple2. Adjustment is very critical on those as the "spring" that applies the brake pads is a stack of wavey washers and there is not a lot of travel to play with. That cylinder is pretty basic inside, 1 seal I believe, a piston and a stack of wavey washers.
Yes it's the piston leaking. I have the piston off now. Hopefully once we take it apart it will be a standard size o-ring or seal I can buy local.
I haven't taken one of those cylinders apart in ages. But like OFF stated, there's a stack of Beleville washers behind that cap on the cylinder putting the whole thing under spring tension. I just can't recall if it comes unglued when you screw that cap out.
Took that cylinder apart nothing is ever a quick fix! Found a lot of broken beleville washers inside. The very top of piston housing is scored from this. Although I think it's still usable because its high up the piston won't touch it as it moves. The problem is where to find the new washers and how many to use since the broken ones are so ground up. Tried to get the washers locally the ones I found were twice as thick as the original ones. Not sure if they would work because of thickness. I could not find any part number for the washers to order them direct.
You could try McMaster Carr for starters. > http://www.mcmaster.com/#belleville-disc-springs/=tvu8fv
On the subject of the swing brake, is there a way to release it so that the boom can be turned by hand? We have an intermittent problem with the proportional valve for the swing motor and sometimes it refuses to swing to the right. It goes left no mater which way you push the control. Today one of the guys got it jammed in a narrow yard and now I think that I'm going to have to release the brake so I can turn it. What a mess! Any ideas? Model is 40F, about 1978.
My JLG rebuild is moving along, but very slowly. I've diagrammed all of the wiring I can, and have pulled all wiring & controls out of the basket. I've started diagramming and pulling the hydraulic hoses. All of the wiring and all of the hoses are in ruins. I have no idea how it unloaded itself from the trailer. I've also removed the gas tank, and am working on removing the hydraulic oil tank. There is about 6" of sludge under both tanks and in the center cavity (the machine came out of a stone quarry/concrete plant.) I've decided to strip the unit completely down. I figure it will take me at least a year to complete. Some of the stuff, like rebuilding the basket, I can do in the shop over the winter. I'll also have all of the hydraulic lines duplicated over the winter. Is it possible that one of you guys could shoot me a manual? I'm thinking that would be a great advantage, especially since I'm pretty sure the guys who owned this machine previously did some questionable "hurry-up" fixes. I did have a good time rebuilding the bent-up cable tray. I think it will work -- we'll see. I removed all remaining steel horizontal cross rods, and replaced them with 10-32 all thread covered with steel brake line. It seems pretty strong, and looks good too. Sounds kind of hokey, I know, but we'll see how it works; As long as it protects my new electric cables and hoses, I'll be happy.
My rebuilt cable tray. I'm committed now. This is what $1000 of wire looks like.
George....I have the same set-up with the joy sticks and micro switches. It appears that our machines are very similar (except yours seems to be in much better overall condition). I see yours even comes with a tow bar...nice. The spring seems like an easy fix (I'm looking for new ones myself), but a simple fix for the joy sticks might be to add weld to the worn areas and then grind them down or turn them on a lathe, to the dimension you need. (Just a thought.)
Jonesy, I sent the manuals again. This time I broke them down into smaller files in case they were blocked due to their size when I sent them on April 25.14. Let me know if they don't come through.
Put the new wavy washers in the piston for the swing break and it works!! Have a drip comming from the piston still I did not change the two seals in piston. I will order them Monday. Would like to thank OFf and Willie59 for there help.
Can anyone tell me the proper engine RPM on a 40F? There is a solenoid attached to my carb linkage, is that to pull the throttle on or off? I still don't have mine running. Any thoughts on a replacement engine I should look at?
The 12 volt motor on my emergency hydraulic pump appears to be shot. Has anyone replaced one or had it rebuilt?
Jonesy, you certainly have ambition. Your cable tray looks great. I see your electric cable cost $1000, do you have any idea what the hydraulic lines are going to be? Makes me wonder if it's worth rebuilding my early 40F.
There's no easy way to release the swing brake. No "quick release" or anything like that. If it's got the external disc brake with caliper setup, you could just de-adjust it. But be warned, gravity is unstoppable. The counter weight will always seek the lowest point. Fun ride as long as there is nothing in your way.
Any automotive electrical rebuilder (starters and alternators/generators) will be able to rebuild your pump motor for you RPM I believe is 1400 on low, 2400 on high. The solenoid pulls the governor linkage onto high engine.
Grovecomm...I have no idea what the hydraulic lines will cost. I have a local guy who does that kind of thing. I have five lines off now. Two of them are the two long ones to the basket cylinder. I think I'll take the first five lines to him and see what I'm in for dollar-wise.
I have a John Deere 310 backhoe/loader that has had several hydraulic lines break, even short, small diameter hoses are painful in the pocket book. I can't imagine what replacing everything on the 40F will cost. Keep us posted please.
Rough estimate on all hydraulic lines: My supplier says that the two 40' lines (approx.) will run about $350 each. So, that's $700 for the pair. If there is another 80 ft. of lines & fittings on the lift, that would put me at about $1500 or so, for the whole thing. He told me there are 4 or 5 levels (quality, durability, PSI rating) for hydraulic lines. He rates the stuff he uses at about a 4. I am personally not well versed in hydraulic hose applications, therefore, I bow to his expertise. He has a mobile enclosed trailer completely devoted to hydraulic lines & fittings. He does a lot of work for the railroad. I guess I'll trust his judgment for now.
Hydraulic lines...continued: As I recall, my hydraulic line guy told me he liked to use Weatherhead hose, double steel braided under rubber, with fittings that actually bite into the first steel braid. He said they will not come loose, and are not 'flared' on the hose end so that they won't get 'hung-up' when you're sliding them through things. From what I can tell, a 3,000 PSI working pressure is what I need to achieve. Does anyone have an argument against any of the above?
Good luck with the hydraulic Jonesy.
I'm considering replacing my 30 HP Wisconsin VH4D engine with a new Kohler CH940-2002 engine. My VH4D needs almost $4000 in repair after the oil pump gear split in two, destroyed the remaining gear train and starved the engine of oil until it seized. I believe the hydraulic pump spool piece bolt pattern difference will be the biggest problem, possibly requiring a new spool piece to be made or modified. I would appreciate thoughts or alternatives. Thanks all.
sorry to hear about the death of your Wisconsin That Kohler certainly has the HP you need. Not sure if the lighter weight would effect the balance of the machine. If it does, you can always add counter weight to make up the difference. I'm sure your spool piece will need need some mods, no big deal if you know the right people. The other alternative would be an air cooled diesel like Deutz, Hatz, or even a Lister. Let the adventure begin! The bonus with a diesel powered manlift is fuel economy.
Thanks OFF. Are there any other advantages to diesel? This is only a hobby machine for 40 acres in WI for trees, roof repairs, small crane, etc., I don't think fuel economy will be much of an issue for me. Will diesel fuel age issues, cold weather starting, etc., be more of an issue than spark plugs and a carburetor???? I can buy that Kohler engine for around $2000, do you have any idea what diesel would cost? These are all homework issues for me prior to purchasing.
I was curious to learn what tires I should be installing on my machine (a 40)? It has 15 inch rims, the steer tires are implement (agricultural) tires and the size is 12 wide, ribbed tread style with a tube. The drive tires are 15 inch rims, they are tires from a pickup with an all terrain type tread, size 11.50-15, with tubes. * I learned I can get the 'ag' type tires but the tire guy was nervous at first because it is a "man lift", then he called back and agreed it would be OK; he also said the pickup truck tires were definitely a poor choice. If I do the smooth ribbed implement tires at all four corners that selection may be adverse to traction....which is kind of silly since the machine is only 2wd and has a four point frame. Any suggestions?
I think I would be looking for something used on a 4wd backhoe front axle? Designed to carry mucho weight with a good traction tread.
I have a John Deere 310, 4WD loader/backhoe. When I replaced the front tires they turned out to be the same tire used on large skid-steers. Skid-steer tires are quite popular and may work on your JLG40????? Just a thought.
The so called ag implement tires size 12-15 are in the tire shop - these ones are ribbed and are likely going to be similar to the ones on the machine's steer axle. There is some thought the bias ply of the tires allows them to last longer (in respect to storage degradation, uv, etc). As to the drive axle, I may look around and try the used 'pickup truck all terrain' tire once again. I note a typical farm tractor drive tire tread is available in this size, but on parking lots this could wear perhaps, so the old school military mud snow tire could be the solution for the drive axle. The load capacity ratings of the tires (ag vs pickup) aren't that much different. Foam-fill could be a recommendation but with the four point solid frame, some tire 'mushing and flexing' helps to cross uneven surfaces.
I've read in this form before about good sources for new Racine controllers for my 40f but now I can't find them. Can anyone help with some good suggestions?
@ Jonesy, ..Hello, ..yes, my joystick problems have been resolved, only by cutting new ones out on the machine lathe, ..I checked around everyplace I could to find these, ..near to impossible it seems to find an exact replacement, ..other than switching to newer styled stick units, I really wanted the originals, so , that is what I did on mine. The springs, were an easy fix, NAPA auto had the exact springs there, but I went with a slightly larger o.d. on the coil, that made them a little stiffer to move, but not bad. Sticks are back in and working good. Thanks OFF, and Willie59 on your inputs , next thing I think I may need is a cap and rotor, points and condenser, getting I little tough to start. Good luck on your rebuild, these things are only getting older and tougher to get things for. G
The 40 f, in action ,,..
I got some tires: -for the steers I got the same size 12.5-15 implement tires. New ones are American Farmer, old ones Armstrong. The new ones are huge - feel like they could be used on a lunar rover. Would never guess these are the same size designation. -for the drives I replaced these with some 10.50-15 all weather pickup truck tires. Same as what was removed. New tubes in all. Can't install rims and tires yet as I am looking for some wheel bearings on the steer. Anticipating there may be some rake to the rig.
George66.....Looks good! Thanks for the info on the NAPA springs.
Rebuild update: Gas tank is off....not too bad inside, but noticed some slight seeping on the bottom...gotta clean it up and see about repairing....tricky business repairing gas tanks. A friend has some of that goo that you coat the inside of the tank with that is supposed to seal it up from the inside. He says it works well. Might give it a shot so long as I don't end up with any large holes. Although there wasn't much rust in the tank, the filler screen was pretty rusted up. Got about 18 hydraulic lines off, marked, and diagrammed. Still got a long way to go there. The basket is off, and in the shop for repair. I removed the double-chain link from the engine to the hydraulic pump so that I can continue to occasionally run the engine. Glad I did...the chain is rusted up and in need of replacement. Good news....I pulled the hydraulic filter out of the tank, and it looks like new....doesn't look like I'll have any issues with the hydraulic tank, although I'm working on taking it off of the unit in order to get all of the stone quarry crap out from under it.
Hello All, My first post here on the site, and this is an incredible thread for knowledge!!! I have a 40f i've been working on and it runs exceptionally well but needs a few small items. The alternator doesn't charge the battery, the horn and the backup signal doesn't work. Appears someone has done some minor electrical mods here and there. Any chance I could receive the electrical diagrams, and/or owners manual, IPL for this machine? Anything would be helpful, thanks in advance.
Howdy All! Well we had a really busy year and haven't checked the Forum for a few months and am planning on pulling the old girl (1976 40F) in pretty soon and pull the motor and tackle that drive motor seal issue again (it still seeps). I may have someone add the case drain to it and try a new seal again. I'm getting frustrated with that issue and thought I would throw out to everyone I would be interested in a drive motor or two if anyone is parting one out or find out if any other newer years would bolt on to the drive hubs. She performed well this summer and would like to make her happy this winter.
Happy Holidays to all my fellow Dinosaur owners!
If this question has been asked, I am sorry. I was using my 40F this weekend, had a couple of issues which I figured out the hard way, stuck 35 feet in the air, lost all control, alternator belt broke, once power was lost, so was control. Once I was rescued by my wife letting me down with the manual valves and I replaced the belt and recharged the battery, i was back in business, the only thing is it seems the swing is very slow, especially swinging to the right, it is very, very slow. Is there something I need to check to remedy this? Any help will be appreciated.
Was it working properly prior to the shut down. If so I think thats a good sign. From my limited knowledge I picked up here (after checking Hydraulic Fluid level and filter status) my guess would be the solenoid that controls that function could be the culprit. If you can raise OFF or Willie they would have a better handle on that issue.
Does it have Bertea or Racine valves? PQ or Cutler Hammer controllers?
Racine
Well, because the machine was working well before the belt broke......I would start by making sure you have good battery voltage. You need about 12.6 volts with the engine off and something higher than 13.2 with the engine running. Also, watch the system voltage while you swing and do other functions. Any large drops would explain your slow function. Although I don't remember any connections between the manual lowering valves and swing, it wouldn't hurt to make sure those valves seated properly after your rescue. next step if you have Racine Proportional valves, would be to "center" the swing valve.
I believe mine does have the Racine Proportional valves, how does one "center" the swing valve? is this procedure in the manual? I have not used the machine since the last post, we got snow. Now we have too much snow that is turning into slush for me to be able to move the machine, but I can test it. I will check the voltage this coming weekend to see If i can make some progress. Thanks, Pyro
Mine has Racine valves and PQ controllers.
Hello I purchased a jlg 40f I believe
Sorry about the upside-down pic. I can't figure out how to change it
Is there any way I can get a copy of a manual? Mine had racine valves. I'm trying to find out what each of them do
I have the manuals for this lift thanks to OFF. I can send them to you but they are to large for the site. Send me a PM with a good e mail and I will get them to you. Jim
Can anyone tell me where to get the PQ controllers rebuilt. All three of mine are bad. I sent one off to a repair shop in AZ for a rebuild that was supposed to be $80 labor + up to $200 for parts but when they looked at it they said it was not repairable. New one was $577. Looking for something cheaper for the other two.
You could try Hindley Electronics. > https://www.hindleyelectronics.com/
I called Hindley and they were going to get back to me but never did. May have to try them again.
Your lift looks just like mine, have you been able to locate the serial number on yours?? If so, where did you find it, I have still not been able to locate any serial numbers on mine at all.
Mine is right above the boom on the basket
I'm still having trouble with my 40F. Sometimes it works great and then out of the blue it starts acting up. When I move the controller to go up it keeps going down, when I move it to down it still goes down and other times it does just the opposite and won't let me down. The forward and reverse acts up the same way or doesn't move at all. Then all of a sudden it will all work fine for several days. Warmer temperatures seem to help. Any body have any thoughts?
Does it have Bertea proportional valves?
I don't know for sure. How do I tell. I believe it has Racine valves.
I did searching until I came across this thread... I purchased this lift for $200, it runs, drives, lifts and extends....it needs both cylinders rebuilt, it needs joysticks and controls I am unsure of what model I have or even the max working height I sifted through roughly 20pgs of this thread and figured this was the place to ask questions. I need to know what controllers my lift should have, if there is a foot pedal, what cylinder packings, where to find serial number for unit, etc I have a diesel Snorkelift TB A60 that runs awesome... I currently have the joysticks being rebuilt, a new pedal, full decal package including control box for ground/plateform... The 60' is much too large for the work that I do so I'm repairing it for resale and want to put some of the money into repairing my smaller JLG that's in the photos.
Welcome Kurtdirt1. That's a very nice looking machine you have there. Looks like a JLG model 40F alright. OMG.........what a gem! Since they were able to replace the controllers with toggle switches and the machine still operates, I'm thinking it must have had the Cutler/Hammer controllers originally. And chance of getting some "under the hood" pictures to confirm that?
Ken, looking back through this thread I see you confirmed you have Racine controllers so that means for sure you have Racine valves. First thing I would do is check your output right at the controllers and make sure they are good before you dig into anything else. The terminals on the controller you want to hit are labeled "C3" & "+1" . You should see a smooth increase/decrease in voltage as you move the controller handle in either direction. No jumping around or spikes. That's step #1.
Thanks for looking that up OFF. The reason I asked if it had Bertea valves was he mentioned it seems to operate better when it's warm. Bertea valves were really picky about needing thin viscosity oil and if someone used a thick viscosity oil it would really mess with them until it gets warm. Racine valve didn't suffer from this problem like Bertea valves did.
Hi Everyone. Could really use some help. Proud owner of a 40F that has seen better days, and has its share of issues. I really need a copy of the manuals, covering both mechanical and electrical systems. It needs some TLC, and its too hard to just chase stuff around. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!
The latest issue that has come to light is the rod seal on the lift cylinder for the boom. It started leaking pretty good now, so it needs to be replaced. How difficult is it to removed the cylinder, and are the seals available?
a very valid observation! I never approach a Bertea equipped machine without a iron cross in one hand, and a flask of holy water in the other hand.........they are just nasty.
Welcome dlindbis! Nice looking machine you've got there. I can help you out with the manuals. You may need a few more posts under your belt to activate the "private message" feature on this site. Once you do, message me your email and I'll send you the 40F manual set on PDF. Best way to get that lift cylinder out would be to set the basket down on top of that barn in the background to support the boom. Top pin is pretty straight forward, the bottom pin is held in place by two C-clamps on studs. The nuts holding these C-clamps are on the bottom side of the turntable. If you look up the number of the lift cylinder seal kit in the parts manual (once you get it) you may be able to inter-change the number to a company that sells after-market forklift & manlift parts called "Total Source". You may get lucky. Other than that, it's off to your favorite hydraulic cylinder repair shop.
That's a good looking 40F! It amazes me just how many of these machines are still out there and operating. I'd wager that JLG would love to obsolete these machines, just because they are so old, but it seems they, well, John L Grove, created something that's determined to live forever.
Mine does this with the swing and I've got it caught in a corner before - frustrating! The next time it happens, try holding the control in the direction you want to go, and then just "bump" one of the other proportional controls. That usually makes mine work for the rest of the session. I'm blaming that and other intermittent issues on low voltage to the basket which I'm trying to chase down. Racine valves by the way.
Thanks. That will help a bunch, and thanks also for the tip. I'm still thinking it wont be a fun job. I'm sure it is very heavy, and am concerned about getting the ring off the head, and being able to remove the nut for the piston, to get the head assy off. Id imagine it has some major torque on it. I do have access to a torque multiplier, so I guess time will tell.
The ring is going to be the tough one. It's been on there sitting in the rain for 30 years. Might take some major heat to break it loose. Piston nut is easy.......if you have a 1" drive impact And yes, the cylinder is very heavy.
Thanks willie59. It wasn't too badly abused. It's just suffering from many years of use, and some neglect of maintenance. The hour meter went out around 4000 hrs, and Id guess it has twice that. From what I can tell, it was a painting rig much if not all of its life. It has more than its share of wiring quirks, which I hope to eventually remedy. It has been super handy around the farmstead. Hard to believe everyone doesn't have one. I know Ive put 100's of gallons of fuel through it already myself.
And in a tight spot, tucked under that boom. I will have to figure out how to get a cherry picker or something similar in there, while having it out in the yard with the boom up. No concrete handy by any of the buildings.
any chance you would still have a wiring diagram for a 60. My control panel has a 3 position switch to steer left and right there are 2 diodes on switch and I need to know which direction they are suppose to go
Hi Troy, I have a 60F Racine basket diagram on my computer. It doesn't show any diodes in the steer circuit though. Any idea what kind of controllers you have?
Trying to post picture but not working. Square panel with toggle switches, key, and stop safety Button. Two levers on right side for fwd/rev and boom extend/retract. Two levers on left for rotate and now I'm not next to it I can't remember what other stick does on left side. United has out riggers which I haven't seen on any other ones.
Most 60F's had extendable axles, not outriggers, but anything is possible. The proportional telescope (on a joy stick) is also an oddity in a 60F. Both of those things were standard on a 80F however. Is your machine for sure a JLG product? You may need to get some more posts in before you are able to post pictures. I'm sure how that works. Having a key on the basket panel tells me your machine is one of the older models. Only time I've seen that is on machines with Moog controllers & valves. I'll check Moog schematics & the 80F schematics for diodes on the steer.
This lift was originally painted more of a John deere Yellow but now it's painted similar to other older jlg lifts I have seen. I can see where there was a name plate rivited to the end of the mast but it has been removed. I have looked the lift over for a stamped VIN number but haven't been able to find one. It has jlg sticker and the number 60 on it as only markings I can find. Fairly certain it has a straight 4 Ford engine for power. Wiring is all original and as far as I can tell it hasn't been altered by anyone and aside from a couple of broken wires in engine compartment is in pretty good shape. I can make everything work by manually pushing on the pins in the center each spool valve. I brushed one of the diodes I was talking about with my hand and it fell apart and then the other one broke and I lost track of how they were placed
If those diodes fell apart when you touched them, they were already cooked. On the toggle switch, the wires that aren't yellow will be the signal wires to the steering. The yellow wires are common to all the controls (power wires). The diodes can only go in on the signal wires with the solid bar marking on the side away from the toggle switch. This will allow power to leave the switch, but not come back. No sign of a diode on the steer of any JLG schematic I've looked at. But it won't hurt anything to have them there. Keep trying to a picture up, I'd like to see this thing.
I'll be back next to it in a couple hours and will get some detailed pictures and wire numbers. Thanks for your help
There was a 60F listed on E-Bay awhile back that had outriggers instead of extendable axles. As far as I know the 60F came with a Hercules/White 4 cylinder although I am currently working on one that has been converted to a Ford engine.
Lift has Rancine valves. Another problem came up tonight also. Only one drive wheel spins. Jacked up both drive wheels and only one spun. Other tire could be rolled until lever is placed in neutral so brake is releasing but hydrolic motor won't turn it. Any ideas on that? Enough of the diodes were left that I could tell which way they were supposed to go and you were right, power flows away from switch. Still can't figure out why they are used other then they are controlling one direction of steering and the outriggers power Selonoid with one wire in the cable going down mast. (Wire #1). wire #2 goes from steering switch to other steering direction seloniod
That's really different. Looks like it's been modified & updated a bit. Thanks for the pictures! I don't have a print for that one however. Other 60F's used the steer toggle to extend/retract the axles, but the 80F's with outriggers had a separate toggle in the basket to turn outrigger pressure on/off and then the jacks/beams themselves were controlled by manual valves on the base of the chassis. Those controllers aren't stock by the way, that's an upgrade.
Troy, send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you what 60F stuff I have.
That is how thus lift is set up also with the manual valves on base.
That steering toggle switch, is it a single pole or double pole switch on the backside? Could you post a pic of the backside of the steer switch? What about the basket rotate and basket tilt toggle switches, are they set up the same way? I'm like OFF, I've never seen JLG use diodes in this manner, I'm curious myself.
I will have to look at those switches closer, they both work so haven't really researched them. Here is the only picture I have of steering switch. I'll get a better one this weekend sometime. The yellow wire goes to the line in for power. It comes from the outriggers/steering 3 position switch. The right wire leaves switch a basically goes straight to steering selinoid. The left red wire goes to a switch labeled outriggers power and it can't be seen in picture but wire #1, a black wire has the 2 diodes that hook to both the left and right posts. Following wire #1 it and the another wire coming from the outriggers power switch join together at a power distribution strip in the engine compartment then #1 goes into other steering selinoid and the other goes to the outriggers selinoid. I haven't been able to figure out why they joined these two systems together. Seems they could have both just came off switches and went to the selinoids they were meant to control.
Hello All, I'm still looking for a drive motor for my 1976 40F. I can't seem to stop the leak and tried rebuild kit and now 5 high pressure seals. My tire is delaminating but no point on replacing it until I get it fixed. The other option is if someone knows if another year or model would bolt right on. That might be easier to find?
RSIGuy, does your drive motor have a case drain line on it? The early ones did not have the line so when the motor gets enough wear on it the shaft seal blows since there is no other place for the excess oil to go. There is a guy in our area who has the same problem and wants me to fix it, the problem is he doesn't want to pay me enough to make it worth while for me to do it.
No case drain (2 lines only on the right side drive motor, left has three), OFF suggested that last fall but haven't done it because I don't have a good hydraulic shop around. The only one around takes months to do anything and I'm not sure of their competence. I took it in once to try and have them put the kit in and a new high pressure seal but after 6 weeks I picked it up and did it myself. I don't think they ever saw one that age. Where abouts are you located? My son is in southern OR and I'm going to be out there in fall if not sooner.
When I retire, I think I'm going to travel north america repairing old JLG "F" series Good way to see the country, right?? :drinkup
Hi Excavator, I am having trouble with my JLG 60G after a fellow working for me was welding and struck an arc on the basket. It is now dead in the water. It will start and run but no functions work. I would appreciate if you could forward me the manuals so I can troubleshoot it. Thanks
Does anyone have an idea where I can buy Racine joysticks for my 40F
I think I got the last one from OFF's private collection. Prior to that we had welded on to it and reshaped it, the springs are replaceable from Napa I believe.
The Rotary Oil Coupling has sheared the bolts holding the bracket that keeps from rotating. Has anyone had experience with those "freezing"?
Please come to Montana and fix mine!
Big Blue, the manuals are still in paper form and it looks like it might be awhile before I have time to scan them, it's been rather busy lately.
I need a wiring diagram for a JLG 40 FR. I have control issues and it looks like someone already was messing with the wiring.
I'm still desperately looking for Racine joy sticks for my 40F. Actually all I need is the circuit broad. It appears that one of them has been changed. It is the only one of the 3 that works.
Check with aerialspe******ts.com in Racine, Wisconsin. S p e c i a l i s t
I giggle like a schoolboy every time the spambot catches the word C*i*a*l*i*s, dumb computer
We can thank spammers for that, all the words that have been added to the spambot lexicon because of them. Let's see if the website link gets whacked as well. > https://www.aerialspe******ts.com/ Edit: Yep...wiped that out as well.
Send them to Flightsystems, they do great micro miniature repairs on all types of PC/mother boards.
looking for 40f manuals wont let me emails posters
email is [email protected] yes there are 2 t's will be greatly appreciated. i havent messed with anything like this
welcome to the forum! All your wishes will be granted. Whatcha got?
i have a jlg 40f and as far as i can tell it has racine controls. which i believe is where my issues are. are these controls proprietary or can they easily be retrofitted? i can figure out anything but this is a little more complex than most of the tractors and skid steers ive wrenched on. im mostly interested in the electrical portion of the manuals. are they pdf?
Yes, the manuals I sent you are in PDF format. If you print them on a "double sided" printer, they make a nice manual. Your controller selection is limited by the resistance of the coils in the main valve body. On the 40F, either Racine or PQ controllers were used with Racine valves. What kind of issues are you having?
New member here and thank you for all the info. I am helping a friend with his lift and what I can tell you is that it is a JLG and the serial number is 717324. I contacted JLG and they replied that it is a model 40 and year built 1974. Right now we are looking for info on how long the roller chains should be that extend and retract the boom so we can put the boom back together. I would really appreciate if someone could email me parts and service manuals if you would, it would mean a lot to me. Thanks in advance. Also, I'm going to post this same message three times so you will be able to see my email in my profile.
New member here and thank you for all the info. I am helping a friend with his lift and what I can tell you is that it is a JLG and the serial number is 717324. I contacted JLG and they replied that it is a model 40 and year built 1974. Right now we are looking for info on how long the roller chains should be that extend and retract the boom so we can put the boom back together. I would really appreciate if someone could email me parts and service manuals if you would, it would mean a lot to me. Thanks in advance. Also, I'm going to post this same message three times so you will be able to see my email in my profile. #2
New member here and thank you for all the info. I am helping a friend with his lift and what I can tell you is that it is a JLG and the serial number is 717324. I contacted JLG and they replied that it is a model 40 and year built 1974. Right now we are looking for info on how long the roller chains should be that extend and retract the boom so we can put the boom back together. I would really appreciate if someone could email me parts and service manuals if you would, it would mean a lot to me. Thanks in advance. Also, I'm going to post this same message three times so you will be able to see my email in my profile. #3
Welcome kip1456. I'll send you those manuals.
Hey everybody, I'm new here and have a 40F in decent condition. When I bought it ($1000) nothing worked, now have all functions working. If I have theoretical understanding I can figure it out, My question is...why do 2 of the pump sections go through a on/off solenoid valve section before going to their function control valve sections? They were not working due to some switching issue and I have them hot wired for now and all is working good, what is the purpose of this redundancy? Thanks
Me again, I have been reading the entire thread little by little and found the reason for the valves I asked about.
Welcome hyd.jack! I think what you are talking about are the "dump valves". The purpose of the dump valves is mostly safety. On basket control, the dump valves are operated by the foot (deadman) switch. This is so if something should go horribly wrong with the controls or valves while you are in the basket, you have a way to stop things before there is an accident. Yes these valves do have the ability to stick or take off on thier own. Most of the time when the dump valves don't work it's the solenoids (relays) mounted to the underside of the frame under the rear of the engine at fault. Check them. One pump section is for Lift/Swing/Drive, the 2nd section is all the other functions telescope/steer/basket level/basket swivel. The 3rd section supplies extra oil volume for high drive. Message me your email address and I'll send you a set of 40F manuals in PDF format. Questions always welcome.
Hyd.jack, if you don't get it all back together and want to get rid of some parts I'm a buyer. Mine has been rewired from stem to stern and has all the latest safety systems installed but I can not get one of my drive motors to stop leaking and looking for a good one or someone who can rework it. OFF hasn't made it down for a visit yet.
RSIGuy, Don't think I will be parting out but if I do you'll be top of my call list.
I need this part! 4640154 I need this part! Do you still have this? I know this is a long shot . Christine
Welcome. What is that piece? Save me from having to look through the whole thread to find it.
JLG 4640154 Valve Motion Control
No longer have it sorry. I gave it to member "superdaveweld".
Hello everyone, new to this site and am looking for some advice.... I have found a JLG 40F for sale with several problems, mostly wiring which I believe we can sort out with a diagram but the big problem is that the hydraulic pump was removed because the drive side was weak and sent to hydraulic shop, they said it was not rebuildable and scrapped it so now there is no pump and I don't even have a part # to use to find out if they are available and how much! Would really appreciate some info so I can decide how much this is worth or to run away from it, LOL. Thanks, David
Welcome Bronco71! Original JLG part number for the main hydraulic pump is #3600042 It was a 3 section pump, 20.5 GPM total @ 2400 RPM. Section 1 - 9.5 GPM, Section 2 - 5.5 GPM, Section 3 - 5.5 GPM
Thanks, I figured that would be quite a few $$$$. The new price I just looked up puts this pretty much out of reason.....
Is there any chance of finding a used pump or alternative replacement?
None that I know of, but if anyone who has posted here with a 40F ever parts one out.......it will sell quickly I'm sure.
off can you tell me if this is the right pump for the 40F?
Do you now if this is the right hydraulic pump for the 40F part # #3600288
Just get some local hydraulic shop to make up a replacement, it ain't rocket science. I can refer you to a great place in Ohio if you strike out locally.
It's not the style they had originally. Also, that pump is marked 24 volts and a 40F is only 12 volts. That's a hurdle you can't overcome.
My bad, that's the drive motor. I didn't look at the part number, thought you just needed a three section pump.
The pump is what I am looking for, after reading a lot of this thread I would like to save this machine from the scrappers. I have fixed up scrap dozers and track loaders but this is a different creature, lol. I have a friend that works on hyraulic/electric equipment, mostly k-loaders and lifts, for a living so I am not too worried about working on it as long as it doesn't cost me a fortune in parts. I have a hose crimper and can make my hoses so that isn't a problem either. So I am researching this pump to get an idea how much to offer for this lift without getting burned in the long run....
any idea what brand of valves and controllers your machine has? That makes a big difference in whether it's worth fixing it up or not. Message me an email address if you want the 40F manuals. I'll send them to you.
40f Hi off I am a proud owner of that 40F now and I was wondering if you could send me what you have on it! I will be more than happy to pay you for what you have! The biggest thing now though is how to get a pump I took it by a shop here in town and they said they need a number on it or information to know what I need on it if it's a two part pump ect. Because it is totally gone! The owner took it off and sent it to a shop nod wasn't able to get it back. Any help anyone can give me pull be greatly appreciated!
Funny how that is the same story as the one I'm looking at that is now gone It's a 3 stage pump BTW, good luck with that....
Idaho is a long drive from Texas......you think it's the same machine? Sure sounds like it though
Welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forum. Message me an email address and I'll send you a set of manuals on PDF. It's a 3 stage pump, made by Cesna, 20.5 GPM total @ 2400 RPM. Stage 1 - 9.5 GPM, stage 2 - 5.5 GPM, stage 3 - 5.5 GPM JLG Part #3600042
LOL, mighty big coincidence. The seller,Tracey, isn't responding now! Pulled the ad also. Oh well, I'll stick to my dozers and track loaders, only wanted this to build my shop so I'll just rent one.... good to see it not being scrapped out. If suite1010 is actually in Tx or knows someone here and got this same machine and was going to keep it in the area we could have got together on it.....
Yes it probably is the same one I have moved to Texas it was located in Mansfield! I m sorry I didn't mean to take it from anyone! Did someone have plans to get it? I have been talking to the man for about a week and he couldn't meet until today! My email addy is [email protected] Again I am sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes.
LOL,no problem. I was researching it before deciding to buy it or not. Off has helped a lot. Are you rebuilding it to use or to resell? I was mainly interested in it to make it easier to build my shop and would rather fix one than rent one.... Welcome to Tx and the forum...its a small world!
Had my head firmly up my butt when I wrote this.......what I meant to say was the pump is a Cessna 3 section pump. Commonly called a "triple" unit or triple pump.
Does anyone have the number of the Hydraulic pump or a picture I can get? I know this It's a 3 stage pump, made by Cessna, 20.5 GPM total @ 2400 RPM. Section 1 – 9.5 GPM, section 2 – 5.5 GPM, section 3 – 5.5 GPM JLG Part #3600042 but I am in need of the CID, Shaft Size and anything else I can find out about it!
Oh awesome I did take it all apart and it looks like I do have everything but the pump! Thank you for your help and do I owe you anything for the manuals they are alot of help already! I think I may have found one and I may have found a cross reference number but I am not 100% sure it will work! Just FYI I mine seems to have 16 splines on it? does that sound right? I put pics with it. Could you tell me what the first pic is it is some kind of pull lever for the carb (maybe Choke) or to switch from gas to propane but it doesnt show it in the book!
Pumps is easy, 9.5 gpm X 231 = 2,195 cubic inches per minute, divided by 2,400 rpm =.914 cubic inch displacement. 5.5 =.529 CIR each, abbreviated version. You can always go a bit smaller, but try not to exceed those displacements, and check pressure specs and ratings if you go with a substitute replacement. Shaft size is irrelevant really, you should be able to get just about anything off the shelf or made up to replace one half of that old style chain coupler. Measure the hole the pump fits into and across the two bolt centers, that will give you the SAE two bolt mount size. Four bolt will work also probably, just have to drill some new bolt holes in that round adapter plate.
Originally, that is where the choke was. But on your propane conversion it could be a shut-off valve for the gasoline. Can't tell without seeing the back. There seems to be 2 hoses going up to it that could very well be be propane lines. I'm not sure about running propane on these machines. They were slightly under-powered to begin with and going to propane loses about 20% of your power. If it's a dual fuel system, you'll have to try both ways and see what you think. And when you find a pump that fits the application, please post the part number of it in this thread for the other 40F owners to reference. :cool2
Lantraxco thank you that's great to know! I will see what I can find and I will be glad to post it off! I actually ran it off of propane and gas both and it doesn't seem to mater where that pull valve is in or out so my guess is maybe it is a choke it does tie directly into the carb but oh well no big deal it runs that's the important thing! One more quick question for whoever can answer I think I may purchase a crimper to make my own hoses is there anything you guys would recommend?
I think this is it! Part number is 3600139
I Found it! it is JGL (New Part #) Part # 3600078 and this is a pic of it!
yeah, that pump looks about right. Hope it works for you. As far as hose crimpers go, any place I know of that sells hose & fittings will crimp your hoses for free when you buy the hose & fittings from them. Are you in a remote area?
Yes I am off! Well kind of I am about an hour from anything
Can anyone tell me what year model this may be? Also what is the best place to get tires for these?My Pump is on the way, they sure are proud of the though! $1600.00
Suite, where is that plate located? On the basket? Is that only a 2 section boom? maybe it is only a 27 foot. The 40F had a 3 section boom. How about a picture of the basket controls? Tires are an issue. Goodyear is still making rib implement tires that size, but to my knowledge no one is making grip tires. Maybe the tire recapping people can put bobcat style tread on a rib imp carcass for you? Would be something to look into. My contact at JLG (who used to date serial numbers for me) retired, so I can't help you with a date. I can tell it's an early model, pre 74. I just noticed the cable tray on top of the boom is way short as well. Must be only a 2 section boom. As for hose crimpers, the cheapest thing you'll find is an old Imperial Eastman K20. Still do a acceptable job on a crimp. Not pretty, but they work. I know they do "HY" series fittings, might do more.
I just purchased a twin to the 27n pictured above, serial #718695. The ID plate is mounted to the basket support, and yes it is a 2 section boom. Control levers with morse cables operate the boom and travel, toggle switches for everything else. Although mine runs and operates very well, the boom cylinder leaks out of the rod seal pretty bad. I would love to find a seal kit and hydraulic and wiring diagrams. The PO "altered" the wiring, I would like to know what wires control what. So far I've found no info on the net, so any help would be much appreciated. Thanks, Tom
Hi Tom, if you message me with an email address I'll send you the 40F manuals. Not sure how much is the same. I'd never seen a 27ft until these two units showed up. Wiring should be close to the same, minus the things activated by cables. That explains the extra-long control levers in the basket. Didn't see that one coming!
Yes sir off it is in the basket I really think this one is a three section boom but I could be wrong! It sure looks like it's got a third section but will not know until next week when I get the pump in if the the hydrolics even work! It's funny the guy I am talking to a JGL has not been able to determine anything from the serial number, thanks for the help again!
Off, Thank you very much for the manuals. A quick look through tells me these will be very useful. Suite1010, sorry it's only 2 section, 27 ft to the bottom of the basket. Where are you ordering parts? Jlg website shows Alta Equip. about 30 miles from here, guess Ill print my new manuals and take a road trip. To repair my boom cyl. I'm thinking I can raise the boom most of the way up and support it with my crawler crane, then remove just the rod and piston, leaving the barrel in place. Anyone see a problem with this? Thanks, Tom
Insley from a place called US rentals in Greenville Texas it's a rental company that J GL gave me the name of but they were the cheapest on the pump that I can find everyone else wanted 1900 to 2000ordering a hydraulic pump from them
Oh also I don't know about this lift but I am but I have an alltech boom truck that I had to take the whole shaft out in order to get the piston out, Then I took the whole piston to Herco hydraulics in Dallas and they rebuilt it for me. Cost was about $300 but all the seals we're gone!
That's the system alright. Support the boom on something you can count on, and remove the cylinder. If you can get the gland (top of the cylinder) undone, the barrel can even be honed in place if required. They were tough to break loose 30 years ago, I could just imagine what they are like now. Good luck!
The way the cylinder and base are nested in with everything else between the side plates I really don't want to mess with the barrel if possible. The boom does not seem to drift down so I'm hoping it's just the gland seal. The extension on the other hand drifts down slowly at full hight, but with no external leakage I can live with that. Overall the unit is in very good shape. Bought it at my neighbors estate sale-drove it home. Tom
That telescope drift (extension) problem could very well be a leaking holding valve. The holding valve looks like a rectangular shaped block held onto the back on the telescope cylinder with 4 bolts.
I tried this method and could not get the cylinder cap loose. I built a spanner wrench with a 6 foot extension and tried using heat and could not get it to release. My cylinder barrel is steel and the cap is aluminum. I had to remove the cylinder from the lift. I then applied a lot of heat which was hard to judge with the aluminum cap. It still would not come loose. I let it cool over night and tried again the next day and it came loose. There was rust on the inside of the barrel so the piston would not come out. I had to use a porta a power and push it out with hydraulic oil while heating the barrel. Never use air pressure! I called JLG and got the seal numbers and then had a local dealer order them. I replaced the hydraulic oil and the tank filter at this time. I now have what seems like air in the hydraulic system. My boom lift, extension and drive have a chatter effect. I have tried bottoming out these cylinders and I still have it. Could a dump valve be stuck open some? Swing seems to be smooth. I also have an issue where once the machine is hot I will sometimes loose the high drive in forward only. My boom wiring is very bad. Is JLG the best source for new wiring?
Welcome hbw, do you have a 40F? You might just try running it for a while. Sometimes it takes quite a bit to get the foam worked out of the system. After that you could try attaching a pressure gauge to the test port on the proportional valve bank and see what you have for pressure. Need a set of manuals? Just private message me an email address and I'll send them to you. They will help you both with troubleshooting and finding part numbers. Is your boom cable worn where it runs through the ladder (cable tray) ? That's pretty common.
Tom, if you can't get your gland to break loose, you can always take the whole cylinder out. The lift cylinder is secured on the bottom end by 2 U-bolts. The nuts for these U-bolts are accessible from the underside of the turntable. Swing 90 degrees over the side, everything will be right out in the open. There will be pounding involved, as the U-bolts get rusted right into the base.
Thanks for the reply OFF. I bought my 40F a few years ago to paint my house and farm buildings. My intent was to sell it when finished but there is no way I could live without "my old man ladder". My hydraulic problem started after I rebuilt the lift cylinder. When I first start the machine it acts like I lost prime to the pump and there is a delay for anything to move. After running a while the hydraulic chatter will get better. I will pm you for the manuals once I get 3 posts in. My boom cable is terrible in the ladder and anywhere if makes a sharp bend.
According to the factory build sheets, a 40F uses 64ft of 16ga x 24 conductor cable (16/24), type SDN ITT JLG part number for it was #1060039 There is also 64ft of 12/4 SDN ITT cable running up the boom, JLG #1060012
Getting my 3rd post in. My 40f has Cutler Hammer controllers and Racine valves. My serial number is 739027. In an earlier post someone had questioned how to take an extension cylinder out. I was able to extend the boom until I could take the front cylinder rod pin out. Removed the rear pin and hoses and slid the cylinder out the back of the boom. Total job took about 3 hours. My lift cylinder took at least 3 days with a lot of head scratching.
That is by far the most trouble free controller/valve combination you can have on a 40F.
Hello all, I'm new to this forum and am on here because I just bought a JLG 40FR at an auction unseen. Had it shipped home and am starting to find all sorts of wiring problems. Engine doesn"t rev up when foot pedal is pressed. (solenoid to governor works when jumpered) Nothing works when panel switch is in ground position (Unit has to started from basket) Any help with wiring diagrams would be appreciated
post #2 All the hydraulics work, but only from the basket, and very slowly as engine won't rev up without a ground assistant
post #3 A diagram of the panel in the basket would also be helpful. It appears the msachine was used by a painter and all the writing is obscured at the switches Thanks in advance
Welcome Namao! Send me your email address in a private message and I'll send you the manuals. Any idea what brand of controllers and valves you have? Makes a difference in the diagrams. By the way, I'm located in Fort Saskatchewan.
Hi Off its Robbie I am back and great news after $2600 in parts I have managed to get the old 40f back up and running, my question is I have no control for boom in and out and when I switch from the ground to the boom the engine dies! Can you give me any advice to try on this I am assuming it is a safety (wiring problem) but not sure where to find it!
If you get this thing going, you should have a party! Maybe even buy a lottery ticket.
Hi Robbie, I'm not too sure how a 27N is set up but the 40F had a separate ignition and power circuit for ground and basket that joined up at the main control box. I would start by switching to basket control and then checking the basket for power with a volt meter. Does the basket have an ignition switch? if so, start there. Make sure you have power to the switch and from the switch (when it's on). After that, follow along on the drawings in the manual. If you have no power up there at all, go back to the ground control panel and open it up, see if the wires were taken off the back of the ground/basket switch for some reason. Could be an adventure. On the opposite side of the machine from the engine dipstick, there will be a valve bank with 2 or 3 valves on it. One of those valves is your telescope. Check for broken wires, and bad grounds.
Awesome! I got the controls working in the bucket. thanks so much OFF!
can you tell me something else I got everythin working except the in out function to extend the boom! I went up in the lift and the lift slid or fell back in does that mean it is probably a bad cylinder?
the telescope cylinder slid in when you boomed up? That could be a bad or totally disconnected cylinder. I've seen "F" series telescope cylinders split wide open end to end before. More common would be a leaking "holding valve" but that's more of a "fade" than a "slide".
No this was a slip almost a slam but no leaks from inside. Thanks bud I'll tear it apart and see what I find!
can I ask what you paid for yours? Just curious
Hi off sorry to bother you again but can you kind of head me in the right direction here! What is the best way to remove this cylinder? does the boom need to be up or all the way down or will it matter and will it be removed from the opposite end of the basket?
Yes, the telescope cylinder comes out of the base end of the boom (opposite of the basket end). There will be a pin on the basket end of the boom, and another pin on the base end of the boom. Knockout both pins, undo the hoses and you should be good to go. As far as what position the boom need to be in when you pull out the telescope cylinder, that depends on how you are lifting it out. I wouldn't advise going over horizontal as you don't want the cylinder to come shooting out. It's heavy. You might have to knock out the base section pin first so you can manually extend (pull) the boom out until the basket section pin becomes visible.
Hi all, great forum. I just bought a JLG 40f. I believe it is the one the member "painter" posted pictures of in post #1032. with that said I did not get the lift from him and the gentleman I got the lift from had no manuals or info for it . so I started searching and the best info around is this forum. I am hoping to get the manuals for it from someone here that would be a great help . there is wiring issues that is a common thing I am learning. the lift has no engine. I am planning on installing a 22hp horizontal shaft v-twin .most of the wiring through the boom seems to be in good shape but there are issues in the basket. I believe all the vales on it are the Racine valves.
her are a few pictures of the valves
I was told the telescope cylinder was rebuilt about a year ago. I was trying to use the auxiliary pump and a jumper wire to active the valves. the pump works and the valves click when energized but could not get any movement at all . is the auxiliary not enough to operate this way. im sure this lift has been sitting a while and was low on hydro oil . I put oil in but is there a possibility of air in the lines? any help would be greatly appreciated !!!!
I was told the telescope cylinder was rebuilt about a year ago. I was trying to use the auxiliary pump and a jumper wire to active the valves. the pump works and the valves click when energized but could not get any movement at all . is the auxiliary not enough to operate this way. im sure this lift has been sitting a while and was low on hydro oil . I put oil in but is there a possibility of air in the lines? any help would be greatly appreciated !!!! by the way I have no ground controls at all nothing wired in and what is in the basket I was told was not working .
Welcome to the Forum ssimps1972! Good news, those are Racine valves and they are what is called "solenoid valves" or "bang-bang valves". Very trouble free and easy to work with. Normally that aux. hydraulic pump will not have enough power to raise or extend an function. It will only lower or retract. They might have be able to raise the boom a bit when they were new, but very, very slowly if at all. If you send me an email address by private message, I'll be glad to send you a PDF copy of the 40F manual set.
Thanks a lot i sent you my email
jlg 40f Hi OFF, I am looking to pull the trigger on a jlg 40f but it has issues, the description reads intermittent problem with boom in and out, steer and basket level, they said wiring is good, maybe low on fluid or valve sticking. Is this a nightmare or easy fix?
Welcome tdc748. on a 40F, the boom telescope, steer and basket level are all on the same valve bank. It's a Racine solenoid bank which one of the easiest ones to repair should it need to be repaired. However, my first check would be the grounds on that valve bank, my second check would be the solenoid that operates the dump valve for that valve bank. (or the ground on the dump valve). Pretty easy stuff, I can't see it being nightmarish at all. I'd put money on the dump valve solenoid being the problem. It's located on the bottom of the cross member under the back of the engine.
jgl 27F hi off i need to pick your brain again! on the telescoping i ordered a new solenoid valve and when jgl sent it the old one only had one plug in wire, the new one they sent has two permanent wires is that going to be the same? i just need to ground the second wire right? also what is a list of problems that it could be? i know these 1) solenoid valve bad (should there be any voltage going to it?) 2) bad ground 3) bad cylinder could there be anything else? I am having a had time trying to find the problem. thank you again! old one new one is similar to this
Yes, one wire to power, the other wire to a good ground. Doesn't matter which one you ground. Those are called FPS solenoid valves. That is an old baby.
JLG Manuals My husband purchased a JLG 80F recently. This thing is a monster. Whoever had it last, painted it to make it look nice and painted over all the markings that identified it. Once we finally figured it out, he contacted JLG and they were nice enough to upload all three manuals to the website. Sounds like they will upload any manual if they have it.
Welcome calimomof5, and thank you for the heads-ups on the 80F manuals now being available on the JLG website. They didn't used to be there, that's for sure. I'll be downloading a copy of each.
JLG 40F Manual NEEDED Hi there! Certain I'm late to the 40F party but I am also in need of a manual. Please advise best way to get one. Thanks!
Not sure if I'm doing this correctly but I wonder if you would kindly send me a 40F manual, OFF?
Welcome bayousammy! If you make one more post, you'll be able to send me a private message with your email address in it. Then I will send you the manuals. No worries, the party never ends.
Thanks, OFF.. I appreciate the advice!
I'm trying to PM you but am getting a message stating I'm not authorized to look at your profile.
OFF, I'm unable to access your profile. I'm getting a message stating I'm not authorized to do so. I also tried right clicking but didn't get the correct menu - only got the "copy/paste" options
OFF, I'm unable to access your profile. I'm getting a message stating I'm not authorized to do so. I also tried right clicking but didn't get the correct menu - only got the "copy/paste" options
OFF, Please email the manual
Sorry! I didn't mean to over post. I'm unfamiliar with how these forums work. THANKS!
No, it's not over posting. You needed to have 3 posts to unlock the private message feature on this web site. You'll want to edit out your email address from you post. I've got your info, I'll send you the manuals as soon as I get home tonight. There are always programs mining for email addresses, best not to leave them out on display
Thanks for all your help! Truly you are a Godsend
My wife would argue that point with you, but thank you. Manuals sent
hi all, getting closer with my 40f got new engine installed , rebuilt lift cylinder but have had an issue with one valve being weak or slow I swapped I what I believe to be the main pressure relief valve from one valve bank to the other and my functions then worked as they should .. but also leaving the other valve bank weak. I have not found a part # in the manuals (still looking) anyone on here got any ideas on where to go for one or a part # there is one on each bank and one on the high drive I believe I have two that are bad ...I have tried to adjust them but doesn't change anything so any info on this would be great!
ssimps1972, have you tried taking one of the weak relief valve apart to look for a broken spring or dirt, or a leaking seat? Which functions are weak/not working? The JLG part number for that pressure relief section of the valve you're showing is 7002301
Sure did didn't see anything that was obvious there is a spring steel retainer that I broke that would fit around the forth part in the image locking it into the second. after I rebuilt my lift cylinder its still would not lift, the basket tilt and steer are on the same valve bank and barely moved. so I assumed I had a pressure problem. so I swapped the main relief form that bank to the swing ,telescope , and drive bank witch always worked well . then my lift ,steer ,basket tilt worked great. but swing telescope and drive don't want to function. as there are thee of the these valves I then swapped the one from the high drive valve to the swing bank and still don't have those functions if I put the original valve back in they work fine. so im assuming that I need to find a rebuild kit for these valves or a replacement. Thanks once again on the info OFF but I am unable to locate that number or a cross over number online as of yet if you know of a place id be all ears here is the serial number of my 40f 713884 and they are the racine valves. I think this is my almost my last step if I can get working valves all that is left is wiring in new joystick and ill be set work
thing is, that style of Racine valve was used by JLG all through the G, H, HA series. They should be fairly common. A 60H catalog shows that same valve section as #7002304 I can't tell from the pictures, is that relief section just a relief, or is it also the dump valve? (does it have a coil on it?) If it doesn't have a coil on it, that makes it a Racine #994436 for the entire relief valve section. Or a Racine #707869 for just the Relief Cartridge Assembly. It's called a "Racine 3/8" Externally Adjustable Series Relief Valve". See if you get anywhere with those numbers. You've pretty much eliminated anything else as being the cause of your problem.
the line at the top is feed from the pump and the side line tees into the return at the bottom of the valve ....there is no solenoid on this block. hope that helps
thank OFF for your time
Ok, those were the correct Racine part numbers then. Hopefully they lead you to something. If not, you can always install another form of hydraulic relief valve. You could install it inline with that side port & the hose that tee's into the return. All that Racine stuff is rated for 3000 PSI by the way. And you are very welcome.
Greetings all I’m yet another pilgrim new to this site but not to life. I’m a very lucky neighbor to a gentleman that used to own a logging company and still has lots of acres in eastern Oregon and has lots of neat equipment I can burrow like his JLG 40f. I’m very appreciative of being able to borrow stuff as I got a small 40 acre farm which is too small to own other than a couple of tractors, but as I get older having the right tool for the job does make life so much easier, that and I like to return things I burrow in better shape than I find it. That said this gent knows his craft, he can take parts piled in the middle of the floor and make them do something meaningful, not so with me. I remember for example, that he pulled the engine of his service truck with its own crane by slaving the hydraulics, he’s grown up with that kind of stuff. What I’d really like to do is burrow this equipment again. Everything works on it but it would be extremely helpful if I had manuals so I could pull services and such before I drive her back down to my neighbor lubed up with new oil and hydraulic fluids in her.
Welcome CCC3, I would gladly send you the JLG 40F manual set on PDF, I just need an email address to send the files to. It's not really recommended you post your email address here in the topic, so if you make 2 more posts (for a total of 3) it unlocks a feature on the site that will allow you to send me a "private message" containing your email.
I shall sir Thanking you in advance I'll be talking to you soon Cheers
On that note This beast is powered by a Wisconsin, is there a NAPA, oil hydraulic filter number I can use to at least begin that process or at least an Engine model for filters, plugs, distributor cap etc etc ..It might already be somewhere in this thread since this is a whole bunch of good info to ferret out. Thanks once more Cheers
Should be a Wisconsin VH4D engine, been so long since I've worked on one I don't recall the oil filter number, bet OFF knows though.
The engine is a Wisconsin VH4D. The older ones (the majority) used a NAPA #1106 engine oil filter (external threads like mason jar), later models used a NAPA #1051 (normal spin-on) Hydraulic filter is a JLG #2120055, NAPA #1436
That makes sense. It looks just like the engine I had on my baler. Thanks for that
Perfect I also have the info you sent me. thanks once more for reaching out. My neighbor hopefully is going to be a happy camper when I return this.
You are very welcome CCC3. That's what this place is all about. people helping people. I'm sure your neighbor will be very happy.
Hi guys my JLG 40is up and going but a little rough to operate. I have included a pic of the original joystick ....sorry about the snow was wondering if anybody has seen this style ....I replaced them with newer 4 position joysticks to get up and going but the contacts on them are just switches.... on and off ....so all functions move fast and stop fast creating jerks of movement . I know it needs to operate smoother so that's my next goal. Thanks to OFF I have the manuals and these original controls don't seem to match any of them in the manual. the racine controller part 1600001 in the manual looks like it uses potentiometers and square wave generators to smooth out functions but I haven't seen where any of this was on my machine. I know I can get a 2 axis joystick with dual potentiometers for around $50 can also get a square wave generator board for around $10 but not sure how it should be wired .....any thoughts on smoother operation would be great. my goal is smoother operation and the speed of the operations would be controlled by the joystick. thanks for your time
well, I've never seen anything like that controller before. Looks home made. Ingenious, but crude. You can't use the proportional controllers unless you have proportional valves to go with them. Can you take a picture of the valve bank you have that's located under the main panel? Some 40F's had valves that were either on or off. There was no "feathering". Original controller on these were made by Cutler/Hammer
Agreed, that looks situationally engineered, but to know what control valves for boom, swing, and drive would be most helpful.
what a great term! The guy who built that was doing some serious thinking, my hat's off to him. 4 micro switches, one for each axis.......perfect.
Can I get a copy of the wiring diagrams of the 40F, sent to my email, [email protected] . I just purchased one and trying to fix it up a bit, not all the controls in the basket work. Thanks, Kent
I sent them to you earlier today, diagrams and a set of 40F manuals. Should be everything you need to make a hit record. Enjoy.
here is the valves are they the proportional valves ???
Thank you, looks like I got some work ahead of me.
Those are Racine solenoid valves, what we often refer to as "bang-bang" valves. They are strictly open or closed, there is no Mr Inbetween. You are finding them a little too harsh?
just seems to be too quick... hard to bring it in close to something , what are my other options ....flow control vales? by the way according to JLG this machine is a 1974 JLG model 40. the original Wisconsin engine was gone when I bought it . I installed a 22 hp horizontal shaft v twin. I mention this because I read that the original Wisconsin engine would idle @1500 rpm and topped out at 2800 rpm. the V twin engine I installed idles at 1800 and tops out at 4000 rpm. although the machine will function with the engine at idle speed I wonder if the extra rpm at idle creates more flow or gallon per min. that's why I ask about flow control vales. the functions of the machine are smooth but if you want to get a few inches away from the roof or rain gutter it moves quick enough you would probably hit before you could stop. no fine adjustment. maybe I just expect too much from an old machine.
Hello Everyone, I thought I would mention again in case anyone decides to give up on their 40F I am still looking for a drive motor or two. Off, any chance JLG used the same motor or bolt pattern on newer years? One of those may be easier to locate so I'm thinking.
Trouble with auxiliary pump on jlg 80 hx Hello! Im new on this... actually i need to know where the problem is on my man lift jlg 80 hx. Everything is working, all functions...but the auxiliary pump (12VDC) doesnt make the boom lift go down, or up, nothing...just makes the telescope in or out. For legal certification i need the auxiliary pump working on 100% functions... Please, i dont know how to make it work... can you tell me where i can start searching and testing? Thanks a lot for your time!
Welcome what needs to happen for the boom to react to the aux. pump - the aux. pump needs to produce enough pressure to overcome/open the holding valve on the boom lift cylinder. The boom lift holding valve "release pressure" is probably a little higher than the other functions like telescope. Step 1 is to attach a pressure gauge to the system (should be test ports you can hook into) and make sure the aux. pump is producing it's rated pressure. If it is not making enough pressure, there might be an adjustment on a relief valve or you might have to replace the pump. You should be able to find specs for all this stuff in your manual. You can download a manual for the 80HX from the JLG web site if you don't have one. I question whether the aux. pump will ever "lift" the boom. If it does, it will be very, very slowly. And make sure your battery is in really good condition. It's going to be 30 seconds before you see any movement at all.
Thats was a fast answer! I im going to try what you say, it has much sense. Thanks so much for your help, im going to try it now, and i will tell you what happened at all... Have a nice day!
Can you use the auxiliary power to operate boom down from the ground control station? Also, will aux power operate boom swing from platform and ground controls?
Hi guys I am back again in hopes for some help! last time I was here I couldn't get the telescope function to work on my jgl 27-32 so here is where I am and I need to see if you can tell me what I need to replace, I found out that the valves are not opening or closing Everything seems to be working because the valves are being magnetized but I am not getting any fluid flow to the cylinder so I put the hoses o a different bank and the telescope worked! Could the valves be stuck or bad or what and How do I get them off if so?
Sounds to me like the "dump valve" for that valve bank is not operating. A dump valve is a valve that dumps hydraulic pressure back to the tank until it is need by a function. What other functions are on the same valve bank as your telescope? Do these other functions work? If so, what happens when you activate another function on the same bank and the telescope? Does it work then? If there are no other functions with the telescope bank that are working, trace the supply hose to that bank back until you find the dump valve. It will look like a block with a pressure relief adjustment on it, and solenoid coil.
Dump Valve Yes sir everything else works and functions properly but what I did is to take the two hoses off (Telescoping) and I put the telescope out line on the lift cylinder and left the other side off and let it squirt fluid out and it worked great!
I know nothing about a 27-32, but maybe a totally failed telescope cylinder piston seal? Maybe?
No sir it's not because when I hooked it up to a different bank it all worked. In other words I moved the hoses around to test the cylinder piston and be sure it was ok
Jgl 27-32 Willie59 and Off thank you guys so Much for all your help everything on my boom is now working thanks to you two! I was lost when I started on this thing and now I can do just about anything to it! Here are pics of the only other one I can seem to find like mine, It seems JGL is pretty proud of it to because this is theirs and it is in their personal collection! It is somewhere between 1965 and a 1968 Model! I plan to try and make mine look just like this one!
Hey Suite, thanks for the history lesson! I had never seen or even heard of a 27-32 before you showed up with one. That's the color scheme all JLG's wore when I started working on them in 1980. Glad everything worked out for you.
Hello gentlemen , I am the proud owner of a well used JLG 40 ... I am going to assume it is a 40f but no where does it give a letter designation ... I don't have any photos .. but I will get some .. it has a Wisconsin vh4d ... looks like a long block was put in .. the sheet metal is the same color as the machine and the block itself is a dark metallic green color ... it has racine bang bang valves so for sensitive work you have to idle it down ... but its light weight well made simple basic and inexpensive ... I am looking for manuals and possible parts sources .. all functions work as they should with the exception of travel power ... it does have a two speed .. pulls the engine down something terrible in high range even on flat surfaces .. In low range I don't expect it to drag a trailer behind it but it seems to me it should at least have enough oooomf to climb a landoll trailer to haul it ... I tried giving the relief on the valve bank a tweek to see if it improved ... other function on that pump section seem to work as they should so I don't think its a pump wear issue ... Some of you guys are virtual authorities on these things and any help is appreciated .... I suspect a seal in the swivel could be bypassing .. I am under the impression there is a cross over relief of some sort in the drive system because with one wheel off the ground it still tries to pull on the weighted wheel .. could there be an issue there .. My expertise as you might say it in construction equipment and quarry toys ... thank you again Ralph .. ps. I wont be this formal again ..lol
Nope thats all JLG .. Mine is identical only things missing are the steel tower that protects the joystick and the rubber boots to keep the critters out of them ... only way to slow down the functions is rpm control unless you want to plumb in a proportional flow valve ... which is a good option really and the necessary controller and proportional joysticks ... I am guessing we have very early models .. I bet yours doesn't have the belt driven alternator either ... I will post some photos of mine .. I'm new and not sure exactly the process of putting photos up so ... nothing like a short learning curve
oh well that didn't work ... that last post was directed at the last page photos of the joystick with the micro switches .. now I need to find a 10 year old to show me how to post that reply with the reference ..
Welcome Ralph, did you try using the "Reply With Quote" on the post with the picture you were trying to show? it should have worked. The biggest thing with your drive is engine RPM. Try to get a tach working on that engine. I'm thinking it's 1600 rpm on low, 2400 or 2800 on high. They don't climb or travel like the new machines, that's for sure. Does high drive bog the engine in both forward & reverse or only one direction? If it's only one direction, I'd suspect a weak coil not opening the valve fully.
It does it both ways ... and its possible the rpm's might be low ... ill stick the old photo tach on it ... it just gives up on a pull... almost stops pulling down the engine when it does ... very distinct difference in how the ...boom up ... function pulls the rpms down vs travel... something else mine has that I haven't seen on any other ,, it has a brake on each steer wheel .. looks like a trailer brake they put a spring applied hydraulic cylinder on ... when you travel it releases the brake when you stop the spring reapplies them ...
The 40F had spring applied, hydraulically released outboard, dry disc brakes......on the drive wheels. Nothing on the steer wheels. Your machine isn't 4wd is it? The only time I've seem a 40F bog down when you shifted into high drive turned out to be a problem with the drive valve not opening fully, causing the added flow of high drive to "dead-head" and almost stall the engine.
Sounds like he's describing a 4WD to me as well. And if I'm reading his last post correctly, when pulling a steep grade, at a certain point the engine RPM stops dropping and holds but the drive just falls flat out. If that's so, may be less of an engine problem and more of a drive circuit problem. However, as was stated by OFF in a previous post, the 40F was never a machine that could "climb a tree if it could get a bite on it".
Willie thank you .. no its 2wd but on the front steer wheels it has a individual hydraulicaly released brake... I really need some pictures
I suspect as much on the drive issue .. and those are precisely the symptom as you described it ... I am talking about loading on a landoll trailer that is maybe a 15 degree slope ..
Komatsumech, if you use the private message feature to send me an email address, I'll send you the manual set. That might be a good place to start.
I have a 40 ft jlg and my swing brake is not applying. I have the external disc swing. Does any one have a Manual for this or what are the common problems
Welcome DR.LS, I can send you a copy of the 40F manuals in PDF format, all I need is an email address. You will be able to private message me your email after you've made 3 posts on the forum. Your swing brake problem could be as easy as adjustment. It is spring applied/hydraulically released. The spring that does the holding is a series of wavy washers inside the barrel of the little hydraulic cylinder. They do break or flatten out sometimes. In an open area, working with someone you trust, raise and block the boom so it can't come down. Have your helper operate the swing function from the ground controls, while you adjust the pads up until they just almost touch (about 0.020). (first make sure the caliper mechanism moves freely of course). If after the adjustment if brake works, great. if it doesn't grip, you have weak spring washers. They are called "Belleville Washers" and should be available places other than JLG. Edit: the washers could have also been stacked/assembled wrong by someone in the past who didn't understand their function. Worth checking.
JLG 40F manual I need a JLG 40F manual . Have not found one anywhere. Was hoping someone had a copy I could download
Welcome sportnatic! Yes, we have a set of 40F manuals in PDF format that I'd gladly share with you. Just make one more post to unlock the private message feature and then private message me an email address I can send the files to.
Ok thank you
The other question I had was when I was extended out it was dropping it leaking off about 8 inches a min.. The lift cylinder is damp but not leaking badly.. Any suggestions on this issue?
Well, two things could be causing it. The cylinder has a "holding valve" on it. Also called a "lock valve". It looks like a rectangular metal block bolted to the cylinder near where the hoses are attached. These lock valves can leak. The second thing is that a hydraulic cylinder can leak internally without have any evidence of an external leak. The oil pressure just seeps past the piston seals from one side of the cylinder to the other.
40F manuals Thanks for the reply. looking forward for more info if needed from this site.
I hate to feel stupid but how does that small cylinder for the swing brake come apart. With the two holes in the top I assume it unscrews?
DR.LS, that's not a "I hate to feel stupid" thing, that's actually a funky cylinder. It's been a long long time since I've done one, but I recall they have belleville washers inside loading the piston to push the cylinder out. If I recall correctly, you have to "cage" the rod/piston before you screw the head of the cylinder out, otherwise it will come unglued on ya when you screw that head out. OFF can most likely confirm this.
DR.LS, you are correct. Those 2 holes are what you use to unscrew the top out of the cylinder. The tool used for that is called a "spanner wrench" or "pin spanner wrench" or "adjustable pin spanner wrench". I think what I used to do is put the cylinder in a big vice so that the vice pushed the rod and then unscrewed the cylinder gland, then released the cylinder.
Need some help please I have purchased a 40f and it is in need of many wiring repairs. Would you be able to send me the info you have to my email? Thanks a lot in advance. My email is [email protected]
Welcome Falcon81, I'll get a set of manuals emailed to you today when I get home from work.
That would be awesome! Thanks so much.
Hello everyone, newbie here. I have what I believe to be a JLG 40G 2WD with a Wisconsin MVH4D air cooled engine that I recently rebuilt. I've finally been able to power up the lift and start working on the mess of electrical wires and hydraulics. I was googling the internet and came across this forum and am just amazed at the amount of information I've learned already. It would sure be handy to have some service manuals and/or electrical/hydraulic schematics that are floating around. I hope to post some pics and certainly more questions in the near future. It's nice to know there is a support community for these old dinosaurs.
Welcome Dwor, the 40G was a model JLG made for a relatively short time between the "F" series and the "H" series. The company I worked for back in about 1982 had a pair of 40G's. Unfortunately I threw out all the 40G manuals and schematics I had when I cleaned out my toolbox about 20 years ago. From what I remember they were first generation PQ controllers on Racine valves and very similar in wiring to the 40F. The thing I remember most about them is the sliding hood. I can send you 40F stuff, that's all we've found at this point. Might be something more out there. There has been mention on this forum of a 60G also.
Thank you so much. The 40F info would be much appreciated. From browsing the forum, I recognize a lot of similarities between the 40F info and pics posted and my 40G beast. I've been reverse engineering some electrical and hydraulic schematics just so I can wrap my head around what might be going on with my lift, and just in case I end up ripping the old harnesses out and replacing it. They are indeed Racines. I would like to know more about how those PQ controllers are wired and/or work in term of electrical signal.:bash
1 more post will unlock the private message feature and you'll be able to send me your email. I'll send you the 40F manuals. The proportional valves work on the principal that they are always centered. When centered there is no flow to either direction of that function. A coil the valve is hooked to the controller with 2 wires. Testing those wires at the controller (or valve) with a volt meter will show approx. 6 volts once you move the controller enough to turn on the micro switched power. Moving the controller in one direction will increase the voltage to approx. 10 volts, moving the controller in the other direction will decrease the voltage to approx. 2 volts. This change in voltage influences the spool to move off center and supply oil where you want it. Voltage sweep is smooth and steady on a good controller, jumpy and full of dead spots on a bad controller.
I love learning theory of operation:thumbsup. That way you can apply the knowledge to an almost infinite number of problem scenarios. Are schematics of the PQ's in the manuals and are replacement controllers still available? I think mine are "jumpy", or even an all or nothing/on and off action. I'm wondering if these can be electronically serviced….the circuit looks relatively simple, i.e. no integrated circuits or micro parts.
The JLG part number a PQ controller on Racine valves is 1600036. If you Google that part number you'll get lots of hits, some in the under $300 range. The JLG part number for just the PQ circuit board was 2900453 but that number doesn't seem to exist any more. Maybe NOS somewhere. I had a bunch but I've given them all away to various people in this thread.
See the next post for the translation. :Banghead, , :Banghead, :deadhorse,
Hi all OD1 here, I'm back with another in a long line of 40F Dilemmas Well I’m back, it’s been a while. I’m OD1 the founder of this blog. I’m still working on my 40F which has developed a new dilemma. I’ve made some improvements to the throttle and choke and placed 2 new filters at the 40F rear to hopefully relieve the inherent problems with the Bertea valve body, and at the same time added one for the Bang-bang side. So I finally got the hoses installed thanks to “OFF” who has been there for me through this interior mess. Okay so I had to pump out the tank to install the new lines and at that time I removed both valve bodies and did a partial rebuild, and added 2 new springs to the Bang-bang valve body. Cleaned everything up and reinstalled. Refilled the reservoir, primed the fuel pump and started the engine which was sitting for a few years now. Kicked right over. Had to deal with a hydraulic leak but that was fixable. Here’s where it goes bad. No functions, I’m running everything from the ground control. I cut all the lines to the platform and only have ground control. Okay so I thought I’d let it warm up a bit. So while it’s warming up (I was a little bored) I threw the switch from ground to platform. The engine dies, which is normal, and then I threw it back to ground and it’s running again. Maybe 30 sec. later I do it again. Same response engine stops and then starts. Then it just dies. I hit the starter button, nothing, choke button nothing. I check the breakers all look good. I didn’t have a multimeter with me. I thought maybe the switch throwing was just a coincidence, maybe the alternator wasn’t functioning and the battery was just dead. I went and got a 4 amp charger and connected it up to the battery while still connected to the 40F, (I’ve done this before) and the charger shorted out. In the past when you turned the key you’d hear a click, now nothing. The switch that functions the ground to platform seems physically to be in great shape although I did not test it for continuity. This is what I did so far, I disconnected the battery, and cut out 2 diodes that I found in the main panel that seemed to go with the ground box. Remember the other box (platform) has been removed and the wires have been pulled out. Did a diode check and they’re like new. I did see 2 or maybe 3 others way up in there but I’m not sure if this is a diode issue. I’m dead in the water. And I don’t know what else to look for. I’m hoping someone else has gone through this and can point me in the right direction. Thanks so much for taking the time to read this through. I'm so happy to see that this site is helping so many. Regards, OD1 :Banghead
Hi OD1, one other path current might have to ground is the alternator. Try taking the big power wire off the alternator and see if your drain goes away. The engine dying probably had nothing to do with flipping the switch back & forth. Check for continuity between the positive battery terminal and the chassis (ground). It should not have continuity of course....but if it does, start disconnecting wires one at a time until you loose continuity. Start with the large wires, any small wires would have probably melted/burned.
Jlg 40 Hello, I picked up what i believe to be a JLG 40 lift. any idea where the ID tag is ? I am in need of a manual but local dealer won't help with identification tag.
Welcome Mr Chevy, I remember the tags always being inside the basket, on the square post right under the control panel. Some where fastened on top of the boom, near the basket end. A few guys on here have never found it, probably the plate fell off or was taken off. Two more posts will unlock the private message feature, message me with an email and I'll gladly send you the manual set for the 40F
Jlg 40 Mr. Off thank you for your reply. I could use the manual it would help. Everything seems to work except the forward and reverse and drive. Previous owner claimed the valves would stick. Boom works up down extends out and rotates good.
Jlg 40 It is being delivered this morning so the fun will begin
Jlg40 Not sure how to PM
It's easy with a little help. Left click on my name "OFF". A drop down menu will appear with the choice "Private Message" and a picture of a envelope. Click that, and you're in business
Hi Off, Thanks again for your advice. I started at the alt. and 4 disconnects later the short was still there so I ripped out all the wires that ran on top of the engine. After reconnecting the wires to the starter solenoid I connected up the battery. No short, so I then continued to connect up another solenoid located near the alt. and then the alt, last was the solenoid for the throttle. Seems good. The engine tried to turn over but the battery was dead. It's on the charger now. Tomorrow I'll give it a try. You were right about the switch! Not related, just weird timing. The hydraulic tank is just a few inches above add Off, Do you think that could effect my testing tomorrow? I had time to make a brief test before the engine shorted out and there were no signs of life from the hydraulics. Even the Bang-bang was dead, and before that side worked. Take care! OD1
it should still work even with the oil level well below the add mark Barr, give it a try. Maybe your starter was so rusty it was staying engaged. Those engines are so noisy it would be hard to hear. That would make a big short and kill your battery.
That's good to know about the oil. Now I'm wondering about your starter theory. Anyway all the wiring that ran on top of the engine is gone, and away from any direct heat. Before the engine cut out I could hear the hydraulic oil circulating back into the reservoir. Sounded like an old washing machine. Zero functions working though, not even the bang bang side which worked before I did the rebuild. That worked before without needing a warm up. I'm hoping it's something easy like an air lock, etc. No leaks now though. I thought I'd run it for 20 minutes and then take pressure readings. If you have any thoughts please let me know. This 40F has been dead now for 7 years now, Talk with you soon, You're the best ! Hope your rebuild is going well.
Morning Barr, sounds like maybe you have a dump valve that's not closing. There should be one dump valve for each valve section, try & locate them all and test then to make sure they are getting power when you toggle a function. The dump valve solenoids are those big silver relays under the rear of the engine mounted on the frame. Hope you weather is holding, it was only 2C here this morning
Afternoon Off, It's way warmer here man, but the leaves are falling fast. I just came in and saw this message. I thought the same thing, which only proves my psychic abilities are working. I checked the pressure and it's bad, so the first thing I did is cut the wires to both of those dump valves which were all pieced together and replaced them. I don't know how to test them to see if they're functioning. Here is the pressure readings, both readings are before and after those new filters. All readings are the same before and after the the filters, Bertea = 500 PSI at 3/4 throttle, engine screaming 600 PSI Racine = 2 PSI at 3/4 throttle, engine screaming 25 PSI
Okay I just reread your post and I see know what you mean, I'm going out now to test the 2 dump valves.
Forgot to hit reply on that last message that's why the time is only a minute later, Just came back in, When The key is on both relays engage. That does not change until I turn the key off. When I hit any position switch on the ground control panel nothing changes. Neither solenoid ever goes off until I kill the main power.
When I saw the low PSI readings I thought maybe a blocked filter, but all 3 material type filters are new, and the one internal that is in the input of the Bertea was just recleaned prior to your nifty 90 deg. adaptor. My other thought is what if I confused the input and the output on those 2 new filters? I don't think I did but if I did would, or could that reduce flow like that? I thought of switching the bang bang filter to see but that would mean another loss of oil, or maybe even another pumping out of the tank.
yes, those solenoids and the dump valves should be powered when ever ground control is selected. When basket is selected, the dump valve power runs through the foot switch (for safety sake - so you can control things should you be up in the air and one of the functions sticks and takes you for a ride you don't want to go on). When the dump valves are not powered, they are exhausting hydraulic flow back to the tank. When they are powered, they stop this exhaust flow so the pressure can go to the function you need it on. You mentioned a lot of hydraulic type noise, is that still going on? Any chance the lines you added for the filters are directing most of your pressure back to the tank?
I sent you a message a while back as far as the hose positioning. You thought they looked right. It was the email with the pic's. My thought was maybe I confused the filter housings. Maybe the input side on both filters are reversed? If so could that reduce the flow? Remember before I added the filters I still had low pressure, but not low like this, almost nothing on the bang bang side, and less than 800 PSI on the Bertea side. No extreme noise from tank now. Maybe it was air mixed in firing through. Quiet enough now.
I sent you a message a while back as far as the hose positioning. You thought they looked right. It was the email with the pic's. My thought was maybe I confused the filter housings. Maybe the input side on both filters are reversed? If so could that reduce the flow? Remember before I added the filters I still had low pressure, but not low like this, almost nothing on the bang bang side, and less than 800 PSI on the Bertea side. No extreme noise from tank now. Maybe it was air mixed in firing through. Quiet enough now. I'm going out to see if I can drop one of the filters to see if I can find a direction arrow of flow.
Well 4 hrs. later. Pumped out the tank again, and switched the lines around on the filters. The direction flow was wrong on the Bertea but it made zero difference. Max is still 600 PSI. I don't know what's going on, Did I screw up both valve bodies when I did the rebuild? There are a lot of hoses there, maybe I connected them up wrong? To have almost no pressure on both sides seems pretty weird. I just don't know. :Banghead:Banghead
The pressure is really low on the Bertea, and zero on the Racine. Maybe the filter in the tank is blocked? It was new, just changed it before I pumped out the fluid. The barrel I pumped the fluid into was sparkling clean though, The fluid is a light green, but there's a lot of black in it. A gallon looks almost black.
Well another day. I checked the tank filter and it looked new so I left it. Checked all the hose lines on the Racine (bang bang) and they look to be hooked up right. Checked out all the electrical for the Bertea, and the bang bang and that's all good. Started it up and let it warm up for 20 minutes. I played with an adjustment on some sort of mixer for the Bertea. I went out and in and found the pressure would drop some in both directions. I settled it in the middle with a gain of maybe 75 PSI. I then tried the swing and it worked, both left and right. Only had maybe 700 PSI but it was smooth in both directions. Not enough pressure to lift the boom though. I'm thinking if I cleaned out the small internal filter that's built into the Bertea I'll gain what I need. Only a guess though. Now as for the bang-bang, I have ZERO pressure. Dump valves electrical activates. Does anyone know if that valve is serviceable? Again I'm not sure if that's the issue. I rebuilt that valve body a few years back. All I did is clean it out and changed 2 springs. It's ridiculously simple in there. it's split into 3's, Each has a single rod which is grooved. A solenoid on each end pushes it from side to side lining up the grooves within the valve body. That then allows the oil to pass through. There didn't seem to be a difference in the way those rods were installed. Non directional I thought, but now I'm not sure. The bang bang side worked perfectly before. The 40F sat for a few years after the rebuild dry, without any hydraulic oil. Could that have done something? I'm just giving you all my thought here. If you have any please chime in. Thanks for reading this through, OD1
Okay, I read through some earler posts and see someone else had issues like mine with the bang bang not functioning, they cleaned out the dump valve. I'll start off with that tomorrow.
Hi All, Does anyone have a part number for Modular Controls Solenoid for a dump valve on a 40F? I have the coil part number which is 30502-12VDC. I need the part number for the complete part. sv9-10-a-0-12dq or SV4-10-0-0-12DQ, something like that. Thanks,
Hi Again, I didn't hear back from anyone so I went ahead and purchased 2, SV4-10-0-0-12DQ, as replacement valves for the dump bodies(they're normally open) and the 30502-12VDC solenoid. They seemed to be a perfect match. Before installing them I flushed out the dump bodies with brake cleaner and while they were on the bench polished up the outside. They look new now. But I still have only 600-700 PSI on the Bertea side, and ZERO on the Bang-Bang. I thought maybe it's an electrical thing. Measured the voltage at the new valve and only had 4.69 volts. I ripped out the wiring and rewired them. Now I have 12Volts, but still no pressure.
Od1, when you follow the hoses, does one of your hoses run from the pump, to the dump valve, and them to top of the bang-bang valve bank? Three pressure hoses coming off your pump, right?
Just curious, does your machine have an auxiliary pump and does it work? Just wondering if you get the same results using the aux pump
Yep, it does have an AUX pump. I haven't tried it.
Hi Off, Yep! The hose with the 90 that I had to extend runs from the top of the bang bang down to the new filter. Out of the filter into the dump valve. And yep again to the 3 output pump. One feeds the bang bang, one goes to the Bertea, and I'm not sure about the 3rd. Before I removed the bang bang I marked all the hoses with symbols and did the same on the valve body. All the hoses seem to be correct.
On the Bertea it's different though. The out hose is connected to a mixer that is off of the other dump valve. That then runs to the new filter. Then out of that filter into the Bertea at the place where it's internal filter is. That's the small hose reduced and with a 90 that you made for me. I've played around with the adjustment on that mixer to get the most pressure. It's very sensitive. A 1.2 turn in either direction reduces the pressure. There is another needle valve where I take my reading for the Bertea just after the dump valve that seems not to do anything.
Those are the bang bang side. Its the hoses that are 90's in both pictures. I'll post new pictures of that dump valve rebuilt soon. Looks new.
Again these were taken before the dump valve rebuilds. The dump valve closest to the engine (cleaner looking one) goes to that iron part with the test port, from there it goes to the mixer on the extreme left at it's bottom. Then it comes out at the top right (new hose) and runs to the new filter. Then out of that filter into the bottom of the Bertea (that's where that short 90 is that goes into an internal filter).
View attachment 160199
I found a picture of the Bertea's bottom line. The hose connects where that twisted wire is.
that Racine dump valve directly above the main panel with the off/on switch, what is that connected to?
I believe it goes to the 3rd portion (rear output) on the main pump. I'll trace it tomorrow.
I know one hose will go to the pump. Where does the other hose go? To a valve bank maybe?
Here is a picture of the 2 dump bodies rebuilt. I installed a common ground and installed bushings in between them for easier maintenance.
Hi Off, Thanks for your reply. Okay from pump rear to the input of that single valve body, then out to something that runs up through the the area between the reservoir area and the fuel tank area. It gets kind of lost in there. If I could lift the boom I could be more of a help on that one.
an exhaust back to the hyd. tank maybe? 1 hose in, 2 hoses out? gotta be the high drive valve
figure 2-28 in the service manual shows a hose running from both valve banks back to the aux. pump. If that aux. pump was internally damaged, hydraulic pressure would have a path to exhaust. Do you still have a aux pump? Maybe try blanking off the hoses to it and see if you have pressure then??
Hi Off, My mistake, that hose runs back to the Bertea. In the above picture you'll see your 90 deg. you fabricated for the inlet on the Bertea. There is an internal filter in there. There is a large line above that and over back towards the engine a bit. That line runs to that Racine valve.
In my many attempts to get things to go I played with the adjustment on that single Racine. I closed that needle valve all the way in both directions with zero response or change in any pressure.
As for the AUX pump, Yes it's connected. Which hoses need to be disconnected? Not sure there. I'm going out to take a photo of that pump, hold on...
Okay OFF, above is that pic. There are 3 hoses coming off of that pump. All different sizes. Do you want me to cap off each one? If so can you make out their sizes from this pic.? I'm now worried about something I did a few years back. I removed the cylinder up by the platform and had it repacked. It has not been reinstalled. I took the 2 hoses from that cylinder and put them together with a union. Seemed right at the time, not sure now.
od1, if you can identify the hose from the aux pump that goes back to the tank (exhaust) that's all you'd need to cap for the test. Those cylinder hoses you joined shouldn't bother anything.
I could be wrong as it's been ages since I've worked on one of these machines, but I think there's supposed to be an in-line check valve to prevent pressure from the main pumps causing the aux pump to rotate the electric motor and return pressure from the main pumps back to tank. This was part of my reasoning for asking if od1 gets the same results if he works the unit using the aux pump.
Hey Willie, You may be on to something here. I removed a waterman filter / stabilizer. It went between the Berta and the dump valve for the Bertea. We thought it wasn't needed. Dave if you read this chime in. Maybe that's the problem? I'd have to figure out a way to get that back inline though.
Hi Willie, I was just looking at the hyd. schematic for anything that would bleed off pressure on 2 sections of the pump. The way the schematic is drawn, there is no one-way valve protecting the aux. pump. I haven't seen one of these things in 20 years either. Just grasping at straws
The Racine and Moog systems never had a inline filter in that location. But Bertea is special......we already know that. I can't see any harm in removing it short term.
removing the internal filter would be difficult for me because the hose now needs to bend 90 deg. to connect to the new filter. Also the connection now is a #6 and it would need to be much larger, and probable changed to NPT, it's a JIC now. I thought maybe it could be related to the removal of that waterman valve. It was between that internal filter and the dump valve. We removed it Dave. The feeling was it was not needed because the pump source didn't share anything else so drop in pressure due to another function being used was unlikely. If it needs to be put back I'll have to disconnect the new filter due to hose end lengths and fitting conflicts. All those lines are JIC on both ends now, and that Waterman had NPT fittings, and they are also smaller.
Today I disconnected the hoses from the AUX pump and ran a pressure test. No change really, 700 PSI at almost full throttle. ZERO still on the bang bang side. I dug out that Waterman filter and converted it over to JIC to match the new hoses from the new filters. I'm posting a picture of it. It says waterman filter but it isn't a filter, it's some sort of pressure valve to maintain, or regulate pressure.
I don't know should I reinstall it? Seems like it would just lower the pressure I have.
I really can't see not having that filter/accumulator (?) in the system causing your no-pressure issue. What else did you change as far as plumbing goes? Just install that other hydraulic filter?
Hey Off thanks again for all your help. Just those 2 filters. Tomorrow I thought I'd pump out the tank again, (lost count now) and try to remove the internal Bertea filter and replace the same fitting without that filter. It's a Boss type which I have none of, and I'm not sure of its size. I'm hoping that I'll be able to use that same fitting without the filter being in there. If I can I'll also disconnect the filter for the bang bang and connect those two hoses together without the new filter. In the meantime I'll leave the AUX pump detached. What should the ideal running pressure be? Is there a range like 1,500 - 2,000 PSI ? :Banghead:Banghead
For SAE o-ring boss fittings, simply measure the OD of the male threads, the thread pitch will correspond with that measurement, if we are in fact working with SAE o-ring boss fittings. For example, a dash 8 (-8) will be 3/4" OD on the threads, 16 threads per inch, 3/4-16. > https://www.surpluscenter.com/images/techhelp/SAE.pdf
Oh, forgot to mention, any time you're working with SAE o-ring boss fittings, you have to use 900 series o-rings, any other o-ring will fail. Using the -8 as an example, you would need a 568-908 o-ring, preferably in 90 durometer.
the manual says 2500 PSI maximum, so I'd say your 1500 to 2000 PSI is right in the ballpark. If your pump is making pressure, the only places you can be losing pressure is where pressure regulator valves and dump valves vent back to the reservoir. Gotta be something stuck or venting/leaking and a fairly large venting in the case of the solenoid valve bank to register zero pressure.
Hey Willie, Well man, that was scary right on the money. The filter measures 3/4 inch on the male side. I'm not sure what would be best here. If you look at the pic. the JIC side reduces to a size 6 JIC. The hoses run from the dump valve to a new external filter and then back into the Bertea. Those hoses are both 1/2 inch. I was thinking maybe increasing that Boss fittings JIC side from a 6 to an 8. My thought here is it would increase flow. Also I'd remove that internal filter, and just run the larger new external filter. I sent a message to OFF as well,
Hey OFF, Thanks again. Man I hope it's not the pump. We did a test several years back. I don't have a flow meter so we connected the pressure gauge and disconnected the coil on the dist. and cranked it for each pump section. The gauge maxed out within a sec. each time. Maybe not the best test but that's all I could do. We did do a pressure check after but I can't find the record of that test. I remember it was low and it gained 100 PSI when I changed the tank filter, and another boost when I flushed out that internal Bertea filter.
No, that's a very good indication that your pump is working fine. I couldn't remember if you had actually done that test or not. So your pump is making the flow, but somewhere you are losing it. Since it's not on the ground, it's got to be going back to the hyd. tank. I don't think the schematics in the manual match what you have there, and I can't tell much in your pictures either. When you had your dump valves off, were you able to test or check that they were normally open and closing fully when power was applied to the coil?
No, since the coils and valves were new I just installed them. I did dismantle the dump valve completely. Examined the needle valve and spring. Flushed it out with a can of brake fluid. Did that for both. After I rewired the two of them and had 12 volts on both. Before the rewiring it read 4.6 something per. Before I dismantled the two valve bodies the Racine worked. All I did is replace 2 springs that return the shuttle back to centre. I then flushed out the valve body with 2 cans of brake fluid. I didn't take the valve body apart except where the shuttles are. There are 3. All the hoses were marked and I double checked them against the diogram, and the pictures I took showing the markings that I placed on the valve body and corresponding hoses. Oil is going around for sure. Every hose I open is full. Still I feel it's something I did. I switched the shuttles around placing them in the body where they slid the best. They didn't seem directional, but now I'm worried about that. I also lightly polished them by hand. I did this for the Bertea too.
Okay this is what I did today. Started by draining the hydraulic tank, then removed the internal filter in the Bertea and flushed it out with brake cleaner, then reinstalled it. Then I opened each of the new filters and inspected them. They were a little heavy but still good. I drained and filtered the oil that came out and reclaimed it. I decided to leave the filters out. I tightened up the two filter housings without the cartridges installed. My feeling there was to see if those new filters were the problem. I then reconnected up the AUX. pump's hoses. Fired up the Wisconsin and waited 10 minutes and shut it down. No leaks and I felt the air must be out so I connected the pressure tester. No change, 700 PSI at full throttle on the Bertea side, and ZERO on the Racine.
Hey OFF, hope you're well. The valves I got are normally open type. Glad I got that right. Same specs as what was on there before except instead of just 1 o-ring there are 3. Not sure how to test them. I put power on them and they each moved but not sure if that's a proper test.
OD1, In this picture, there are 2 aluminum blocks on the left side. They look like pressure relief valves. Have you had those apart at all? They are called "flow dividers" in the parts book. They could also be bleeding off your pressure. Your 3 manual decent valves are closed, right?
Hi Off, I did open the block bolted to the body. It was clean but it's hard to say what's going inside there. There is a minimal gain when I play with the adjustment screw on the side (just out of view on its left side). The one laying on top of the Bertea valve body was never touched. Should I open it? Is there a way to bypass, or directly connect the hoses? The decent valves are closed an have been tightened with a huge monkey wrench. Tomorrow will be a good day to work on the 40F. Warmer than today, we got our first frost last night Dave. We're catching up to you. Stay warm man, talk with you soon,
Opened up those two flow dividers today. The one with 3 hoses has a shuttle inside. There are a few slight scratches on that shuttle, but I mean slight. Pushing on that is a large spring. Nothing looked out of place, and it was clean in The 4 port one, I just opened up the adjuster area. Small needle valve in there with a small short spring. Looks like maybe that was worked on, The 2 springs in there are 2 different colors. Maybe it's like that because there 2 different tensions? Other than that nothing to report there. I tried to get some info. on both of them but came up with nothing. The 3 port one is made by Fluid Control or Danfoss Fluid Power, part number 2F95-P4-4-4-158 (that 8 may be an S, bummer is both parts exist). The 4 port one is made by, Hyrdra Flex. part number 705706 or maybe, 4540035, or maybe UPXA2B3XAA100. There are 2 companies with the same name out there. Pretty confusing.
Is there any way to do a bypass test of some sort? As for those 2 dump valves, I only have the ground control connected up. In the ground position those dump valves are powered at all times. Not sure if that's right? Shouldn't they shift on and off when I use a control switch? When I turn on the key there are 2 solenoids that engage, and stay engaged.
yes, the dump valves are powered all the time in ground control. That is correct. What you need to do is figure out where you are losing pressure between the pump and the valve bank. It looks like there is a dump valve and a pressure regulator in line to each section - both of which have a return line to the tank. Blocking off these return lines will raise your pressure if either of the valves are returning oil to the tank. Should be the bottom line out of each but confirm that beforehand by following the hoses. Installing a valve you can close off for test purposes works too. Gives you more control than a solid block/cap. Having your spools installed the wrong way in the valve body could also be causing your problem unless they were exactly the same both ways. Watch this video on "open center" hydraulic systems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9b7wC16qkA
The spools seemed to be exactly the same. Direction wise anyway. I'll look around maybe someone over at Parker may have that answer. I'll price out some high pressure shut off valves this week. Do you think I could do the test with 2 valves? I could go block by block. Thanks Off for your help and patience.
what a great thread what a great thread, I've only made it through the first 15 pages and wanted to post a picture of what I believe is a 60F, can anyone confirm that's what I have, I can't find any markings whatsoever. Just brought this thing home today - had a bad fuel pump and a poorly rebuild, installed & adjusted carb so it wouldn’t run. I've got that part all sorted out and except a non-charging alternator it runs good. Because it wouldn’t run I had to reverse the caps on the drive hubs so I could winch it on the trailer to get it home. When I went to put the caps back the shaft inside didnt pop back out, any easy way to get them back engaged? It seems manuals are rare, I haven’t had any luck finding anything, with the exception of this thread - OFF seems to be the man with the old documents - any chance I could get the wiring & hydraulic diagrams, if you have them? For some reason the hatch for the out rigger controls was welded shut - I opened it up but haven’t tried to operate them yet- on tomorrow's agenda along with the alternator. I'll post some more pictures if it as I get it back working as it should. Thanks, Jason
Welcome Jason. You might even have an 80F there, it's hard to tell from the photo. Is the engine a 6 cylinder Ford 300 or a 4 cylinder White/Hercules? That would tell us. I've got lots of old documentation om both 60F and 80F soas soon as we figure out what it is, I can send you some. No manuals for those however. I only have a 40F manual. What brand of controllers in the basket?
It's got the 4 cyl White\Hercules & was dual fuel but it looks like the carb has been changed and most of the propane stuff is disconnected. No idea on the controllers, I'll take some pictures today. Thanks! Jason
Ok, so you do have 60F with outriggers rather than the extendable axles. Check out post #33 of page 3 of this thread, it shows a page of the different controllers JLG used on the F series machines. Let me know what brand of controllers you have.
Make that post #31 for controller ID.
Racine? Cutler-Hammer? Also I noticed the swing motor was loose - so loose it has broken all 8 mounting bolts (more than once - see the picture) You can see where it has been re-positioned and re-drilled a couple previous times. Is this something common? As for repair can I simply remove the 10 bolts holding the housing on and remove it to bring to a machine shop to fix? What's the process for removing that housing? Thanks, Jason
Correct, Cutler Hammer controllers. I've never seen a basket control panel quite like that one before. It's either really old or heavily modified. None of the 60F's I've known (about 6 of them) ever had a problem with the swing gear box. But none of them had Cutler/Hammer controllers either. They are either off or on. There is no feathering, nothing gentle. What's the 5th joy stick for? Must be Steering? That's just a bearing housing you're looking at, nothing special in there. Keep it clean, lift the top off and take it away for machining. You might need a big puller to pull that bearing off the shaft. One word of warning, with no swing brake on the swing, the counter weight will always find it's lowest point. Chain the boom down. If you're loading or unloading it on a trailer or ramp truck and that counter weight is on the high side..........it will suddenly swing until it's on the low side......causing the boom & basket to wipe out anything and everything in their path.
Yup its steering, although I believe its been modified because all of the controllers are 4 way when only 2 way are needed. On the front of the panel there are switches for basket up\down, drive speed low\high, engine speed low\high, emergency power, choke, start and key on\off. Thanks for the heads up on the swing - we won't be moving it but I'll put a tie down on it to make sure it stays put. I'll see if I can get the bearing housing off tomorrow if the rain holds off. Any chance you have hydraulic\electric diagrams\schematics for what I've got? Everything works now but I'd like to be prepared when things go wrong. Much Thanks for the help so far.. Jason
I've got a parts manual for the engine, but all the diagrams I have scanned in are for Racine controllers. I'll have a look through the paper "archives" tomorrow but honestly, I've never seen a 60F with Cutler hammer controllers before. I might have some info/manual on the swing gear box as well. Private message me with an email address and I'll send you what I've got scanned in PDF format. Dave On the machines that came with C/H controllers, they only had 2. Steer & drive were on one, lift & swing on the other. Telescope was on a toggle switch.
Looks like your PM box is full -J
fixed
It happens.
Lucky for me I caught it when I did - got 2 bad bearings, one catastrophic Here you can see the housing off with its swiss cheese flange And the junk bearing - Timken JM205149 (bearing) and JM205110 (outer race) This one wont spin either - gotta get it off to see if the seal has a part number on it.. Next to get the housing on the lathe & clean things up -J
If I should be posting this stuff to its own thread just say so - I don't mean to hijack this thread. Gonna be a couple days till I get the new bearings & seals - so I'm taking some time to fix the planetary housing and clean up the numerous poor repairs Plan is to drill the broken bolts out on the mill Re-tap and clean up all the threaded holes After that I'll fill all holes with some grade 8 bolts, secured with jb-weld. Then I'll cut the bolt heads off and fly cut the entire surface Then drill & tap 8 new holes I'll finish up by installing studs, bearing grade loctite & stage 8 locking fasteners Should last another 40 years. Jason
No, it's just fine here, this entire thread is about info that concerns the F series JLG, a whole bunch of information cataloged in one easy to find place as opposed to scattered in numerous threads across the forum. I can't say about your rotation gearbox, and it's been years since I've worked on an F JLG, but I recall some of the older JLG machines had planetary gearboxes that required timing the gears upon reassembly. I don't know if that applies to your gearbox, maybe OFF can confirm.
Usually they were timed, but some weren't. You have to clean everything up well and carefully look at the ring gear, each planet gear and the sun gear for little X's or dots etched into one tooth or between teeth. If you don't see any markings, assemble and rotate by hand to confirm that everything is meshing, no tight spots. On a planetary that's been abused as badly as that one has, I doubt you'l find and tight spots anyway.
JLG 40F torque hub I dont know if I can ask my question here but...... My JLG 40 F has a torque hub broken and the Wheel just fall down. I see that the spindle shaft brooked from the plate. Can I change the plate only or I have to change the complete torque hub. Second request is about a command non responding. I cannot backup and I suspect an electrical problem. Can you send to me the service manual for the JLG 40F.
Broken torque hub shaft Can I change the spinner only or I nead to change the complete hub. I also have an electric problem..... I cannot backup. Can someone send me the jlg-40f manual. thanks a lot...michel
Broken torque hub shaft Can I replace the spindle only or I have to change the complete torque hub. I also have a backup problem and I suspect an electric problem. Can someone can send me a service manual / electric diagram / hydraulic diagram. thank a lot...Michel
Hello Michel, just send me a private message with your email address in it, and I will send you the manuals in PDF format. I've never broken a spindle on a 40F, but I certainly have on other pieces of equipment and the spindle is always available separately.
Newbie with 40F problems Hello, and thanks in advance for all the great information. We have a 40F with a V4 Wisconsin, Bertea Prop stack, and PQ controls. If you are still emailing manuals and diagrams, I'd sure be grateful for a little early Christmas present. Our unit has problems with lift, drive, and swing not working; as well as hi-drive bogging the engine. I've read so much good info on this thread already, I'm not even looking for answers right now!
Thanks in advance.
Oh, and if anyone has the voltage sweep values for PQ controllers, that would really help. I skipped many of the middle pages, so I'm sorry if I'm asking for a repost...:tong Merry Christmas
Welcome exwestracer, check out post #99 on page 7 of this topic. It explains how a PQ controller functions with Bertea valves. Click on my user name, it give you the option of sending me an email or private message where you can give me an email address to send you a manual set & drawings.
Page number depends on the size of the monitor of your device, on my computer it's page #3. But you are correct, it's post #99. :drinkup
Already screen shot that post and we are using it for testing! (At first I didn't realize it was for Bertea) Email sent. THANKS!
One other quick question: I'd read earlier in the thread about the possibility of the dump valve poppet spring being weak. On the Bertea valve, is there any spec for how hard the dump valve poppet should be to open manually (removed from valve body)? I can open it with light pressure with a screwdriver on the valve head. We are checking to make sure the solenoid pilot ports are clean. The dump solenoid does appear to be moving the pilot valve. Thanks again.
Thanks, OFF. Those manuals and LEGIBLE drawings were very helpful. We have it nailed down to the Bertea dump valve not closing. (I can see you all sitting there nodding your heads ) We have verified that the solenoid is working and the pilot valve is opening and closing. We have had the poppet valve out, cleaned it, and verified that it moves freely; but it still wont build any pressure in the valve stack. Is that something that can be replaced, or does someone have a fix for it? Thanks
Glad you got the stuff. Actually the member who started this epic sized topic (OD1) is having exactly the same problem you are with his Bertea equipped 40F. I had very little exposure to Bertea valves, so I haven't been much help to him. Every JLG I worked on "back in the day" was either Racine or Moog or FPS valves. I hope you find the answer, I'll be cheering you on. Condors used Bertea valves and in the Condors the valves were virtually trouble free. The difference is Condor used a John Deere hydraulic piston pump that only made pressure on demand so it didn't use any dump valves. What ever JLG engineers did to make Bertea valves operate on the gear pumps/dump valves JLG used at the time, didn't work as well.
Well, we are still about stumped on this. We've had the dump valve and pilot valve completely apart and found some bad o-rings and debris. Replaced the o-rings and cleaned everything out, but we still have no motion out of the Bertea stack. I'm wondering about the bypass line (no. 44 in the picture). Is that the outflow from the dump valve? If so, can I install an "inline" valve to close it off to verify once and for all that the dump is the problem? The schematic shows the flow line from the Hi-drive connecting at that same port, but ours does not seem to be plumbed that way. Any other ideas on absolutely verifying that the dump is the problem? We've checked everything electrically and there is no signal to the dump solenoid on lift up or down, but swing and drive controls appear to be operating the dump solenoid normally. Update: Swing, Lift, and Drive are working (by manually closing the valves on the stack), but this is WITHOUT energizing the dump valve solenoid. CONFUSING....
JLG 40 F I have spent many of the last 48 hours reading this 92 page thread (more like a book). Including mine, there are more than 75 machines recorded here. I am not counting the many other JLG's mentioned. Wow at the information. This is the only thread where so many contributors have been invited to use the same thread, on any site, that I have been a member of. Strangely impressive.
:beerchug
I think even John L Grove would be proud. Not so much that we've compiled all this information on his machine in one thread, but that his machine would still be so prevalent after all these years to compile all this information in a single thread. It seems he built a machine that refuses to die and be carried off to the scrap yard. Hat's off to John L Grove. :drinkup
I looked over my 40F again today after reading this thread. I am not the original owner, but I have had it for years. Because many here have posted about their serial number, I looked for mine, did not see it. I am sure it is there somewhere. I will post pictures soon, need to understand the how-to-post
THank you for your time Gentlemen, thank you for your time and knowledge, we recently rescued a 40F (we believe) from the weeds and could really use a copy of any paperwork you fine fellers would be willing to send. We are having several functional and control issues we need to systematically diagnose, so having reliable information is absolutely necessary, we have been trying to interoperate from a 40H manual with little success. I have spent hours reading this forum and am glad to find that you are all still in contact to potentially save my rump. thank you in advance!
Welcome BFG! after reading all this, you know the drill. Send me a PM (private message) with an email address and I'll gladly send you what we have.
Willie, I admit that I am amazed every time another JLG F series comes out of hiding and surfaces on this forum. I have no idea how many they built, but they must all be present and accounted for!
Naa, there's still at least a half a dozen still out there in hiding, they'll show up here in due course.
Hey all, this is my first post and I have to say first I'm really impressed by the amount of community and information around the 40F. I've been scouring the internet for a service manual in PDF for mine (which could certainly use some work). If I understand correctly, OFF seems to have it and has been so gracious to pass it along a few times. Thanks for all the time and love you've put into documenting these old machines - it might just keep mine alive!
Oh I forgot to mention that I figured out that mine is a 40F by comparing it to pictures on google images, etc due to the fact that there is no discernible plate with a serial / model number visible on mine. It's been painted at least once, but there's no rivet marks or outline in the places it would be found. So 40F is my best guess, based on what I've seen, and I'm almost 100% sure that's what it is. But if there's another model that's similar I'd love to hear about it.
Welcome to HEF bigboy2000. :drinkup You need to get three posts in to drop the probationary member status, then you can send your email in a private message so we can get the info to you.
The ID plate on the 40F was typically in the platform. Not unusual for them to disappear as old as those machines are.
Thanks, willie59. I'll have to take a more confident look at it. Just to be sure, when you say the platform do you mean the one located under the boom or the one you stand in. I assume you mean the platform the turret sits on, but never hurts to ask Also, thanks for the warm welcome :drinkup I'll send you a PM about the 40F manual - thank you so much
Hmm... maybe I haven't been authorized yet. Can't seem to PM you after having made three posts. :beatsme Here's my email address: email edited out by moderator I'll just edit it out afterward Thank you willie59 and OFF
40F vs 40-45 To tell a 40F from an original 40-45 look at the turntable plate the boom rests on. If there is a rod going back to the lift manual descent valve, it's a 40-45. If there are three valves directly mounted to the plates it's a 40F. Or a G. Also the F models had a quick change platform that hung from hooks and slid into a slot on the bottom with vertical pins probably replaced with bolts by now. The 40-45's platform set on top of the upper panel and bolted at the bottom with two horizontal bolts. The F's also originally had a weight capacity indicator on the end of the fly boom dubbed a "pendulum" by JLG.
Welcome bigboy2000! The manuals have been sent, your address can be deleted now.
Welcome Rick39! Sounds like you've got some serious knowledge behind you. Ever have much to do with Bertea valved 40F's? I only ever saw 2 of them the whole time I was working on JLG's and never really got very involved with them. We've got a couple guys here having trouble with that mess of flow dividers, dump valves, pressure regulators, and what ever else it is they have plumbed in there. Help would be greatly appreciated.
We had lots of units with Bertea valves. From the factory they had to be run a long time in the winter before the functions would work. JLG's fix was to thin the oil with up to 20% diesel fuel. Yes, there is an adjustable flow divider between the pump and the valve bank that splits the flow between the function spools and the pilot valves. That pilot flow allowed the "jet diverter wand" to do it's thing in the pilot valves. As I recall turning the adjustment on the divider out increased the pilot flow. Too little pilot flow and the functions would not operate. Too much could damage the pilot valves at worst or at best waste what little power the units had.
That's great Rick39, good to have you aboard. We used to cut our hydraulic fluid 50/50 with kerosene btw, just to keep the Racine machines going at below -20 So that crappy little "Waterman" filter, that was inline with the pilot pressure?
Yes, exactly. The pilot valves were vulnerable to contamination hence the filter. The later units had a much higher quality Parker canister high pressure filter. The old style wasn't the best. The Bertea valves had only one coil per valve. 2.4 volts commanded full stroke one way and -2.4 made it go the other way. No square wave generator was needed unlike the Racine or Vickers valves.
By golly I'd like to welcome Rick39 here. With him being from SE PA, that's the home of JLG in McConnellsburg. I've been through that plant, pretty fascinating. And yes he's spot on, the 40F machines with Bertea valves didn't like heavy viscosity oil at all, they need the viscosity of cooking oil, especially in the cold climates.
"By Golly" is right Willie! I'm sure glad Rick39 showed up. Both "od1" and "exwestracer" need his expertise. I'm wondering if the cold problem isn't the reason I didn't see many Bertea equipped JLG's in Western Canada. They knew not to send them here. All the older ones were Moog, and then everything after about 1977 or 78 was Racine.
Thanks for the warm welcome, Willie and OFF. We never tried to get bertea units to operate at -20 but as OFF says they needed 50/50 oil/kerosene. Rather thin oil indeed! I read through most of this thread and took quite a trip down memory lane. Started dealing with JLG's when the F's first came out in late 1976. Hard to believe it was 40 years ago. How times have changed... Back in the day boom lifts were still rather rare and we would travel long distances to deliver and repair them. Customers were in awe of them back then. Now they have no more luster than a shovel in the eyes of users. I remember driving the 40H prototype at the factory (back then if you said "the factory" everyone knew you were talking about McConnellsburg). What a big difference in performance!
Wow, Moog! Haven't seen a Moog unit in a long time. Back in the day a new Moog controller cost $1,600... Like $6,000 in 2017 dollars! Back in this thread is a picture of a rather rudimentary joystick with individual switches and a spring loaded stick. Believe it or not that was how the older units came from the factory. JLG switch part numbers start with 436. The switches for that arrangement were 4360001.
I remember the picture you're referring to. I thought it was a replacement controller that some clever person had fabbed up. I had never seen anything like it or the 27N with cable operated valves. I've learned a whole lot of stuff about JLG history in this thread. One of the Moog machines I was friends with back in the day was a 60W. Nobody was ever able to tell me what a 60W was all about. It looked like an older version of a 60F. Any insight on that one?
Yes... All the older 60's had hydraulic outriggers. The oldest one of them I know of was S/N 188. The oldest 40 I ever worked on was S/N 16. JLG then figured that a 60 would work on rubber if it was 10' wide. That was the 60W. That made the unit a pain to haul so in 1976 JLG got the idea to make the axles extend to 10' but be able to retract to 8'. That was the 60F. JLG did make outrigger versions of the 60F by special order. We did sell a 27/32 (before I started) that had hydraulic outriggers. Back in the day JLG made quite a few special units. Have you ever seen a Grinell special? It was a 40-45B and later units were 42C's with a special removable platform and could be used as a forklift for unloading sprinkler pipe.
I never even noticed that 60W didn't have extending axles like the 60F's! & I always wondered about the 42C. They were way beefier, like a short 50F, or a short 60F even. Now I know why. Thank you I had a blast working on the JLG F series stuff. They were good times, I really miss that. These days you just call a phone number, they tell you what's wrong and you change the part. No fun or adventure in that at all.
The 42C was kind of an answer to a question that no one was asking. 4000 lbs. more weight and only another 8 HP to move it, a 38 HP VG4D vs. a 30 HP VH4D. It was supposed to have a 1000 lb capacity but was radius limited at that load. When the 50F was introduced on pretty much the same frame it made sense. The 40-45B was the forerunner to the 42C but few were built that I ever saw.
I worked on all manner of Aerial lifts from the mid 80's up through mid 2000's. In the late 90's into the 2000 era I purchased my JLG parts from Aerial Service And Parts in Shippensburg. Can't recall their last name, but the owners were Randy and his wife Beverly. I know Randy used to work at the plant and all the folks at ASAP new their stuff on the JLG machines. When I made the trip to the plant for training, 2003 I think, I stopped in to meet Randy and Bev, super nice folks. They eventually sold the business to Best Line Equipment. I had a blast at the plant, the manufacturing capabilities they had were impressive to say the least. At that time the hottest item was the QuikStik machines. I never got to ride in one, but when they told me what they would do I just said to myself...DA-YUM!
Oh, and Rick39 mentioned the H series. IMHO, one of the best models JLG ever built. The 80HX model that had the extend axle function that was all done at the platform, no pins to set or steer cylinder to manually set, dang good machine!
Hey Rick39, Glad to have you on board.
I worked with Beverly for a few years before she married Randy. Schaffer?
Man, I just can't remember if that's the name...got way too much crap in my head.
Hi Barr, good to see you. Do you know the flow divider valve that splits off into the pilot pressure line to the Bertea bank Rick39 is talking about?
Rick39, is this the flow divider valve for the Bertea pilot pressure?
Yes, that's it.
The pilot flow goes into the side of the stack on the inside. The fitting in the valve has a screen behind it. Above that fitting on the valve is a relief valve for the pilot section, don't remember the pressure but around 300 psi or so. JLG specified a flow to the pilot section but most people used pressure to set the divider valve. I used to turn the adjustment in, then slowly out until the engine sounded like it had a slight load on it. The dump valve has to be closed, so start from the ground controls and make sure it operates from the overrides before adjusting. Make sure the pilot valves have a signal, best to check milliamps on one of the wires going to the pilot valve. Don't remember the value, but maybe 500 ma at full stroke?
Thank you sir! :notworthy
It has been mentioned before in this thread...a quick search overlooked it...what degree grade can these JLG 40 F machines climb?
The manual doesn't give a spec that I can find, but from what I remember the climb angle is not that great. You may want to get a winch to help it along. A 40F will not climb like a modern 4wd machine will. No where near it. Low drive, and high engine is what you want to be climbing in.
Officially the 40-45 and 40F had to be mechanically assisted on grades exceeding 20% (roughly 9 degrees). In the real world, 20% is about the angle of a rollback deck and few if any would climb it without being winched. On a good day with 254 motors maybe 15% would be possible. What really made the units climb was when they went to piston drive motors in the H models. Double the horsepower didn't hurt either! OFF is exactly right, climb in high engine low drive.
OFF & Rick39, thank you for the quick answers. For loading on a dovetail gooseneck trailer, a 4 foot vs 5 foot dove may not matter then. (I asked this question more directly on another thread I started here at HEF and got no response.) BTW High engine, low drive is the way I load. I found a 30 foot, 14000 GVWR trailer, I am considering buying. 26 foot flat, plus a 4 foot dove.
Well, no one has expressed concern that the 40 F will overload a 14000 GVWR trailer. I will take that as good news to move forward with a 14000 GVWR trailer purchase.
That depends on the empty weight of the trailer, if the unit you have is actually a 40F (a few units on this thread thought of as 40F's are not), and the configuration of your JLG. An older unit with no platform rotator and a 5' platform will be a bit lighter than if it has a rotator and an 8' platform. Not only are the components on the platform end heavier but they necessitated heavier counterweighting and in some cases extra weights on frame sides. Also consider that the unit is fairly long which limits how it can be positioned on the trailer in order to axle the load properly. Too many variables to make a judgment from behind a keyboard.
Rick39. Thanks for commenting. My JLG still has 40F on the boom. My reasoning in the 30' trailer is better control in positioning some of the weight onto my truck. The platform can be placed over the neck or at the dove, whichever gives me the best balance. I figure with no one expressing overload concerns (since 1/17/17) , the load is acceptable. **EDIT I just finished a weight balance search.** **20 to 25 percent of my load will be on the truck, so the 14000 GVWR is plenty for the 40F.**
Would it be possible to get a copy of Schematics,Parts Manuals for JLG40F. I'm a proud new owner of one. not sure on pump type yet ,was running 5yrs. ago . It's in good shape, 1287hrs. on it, there's very little wear on the machine. Been sitting outside in grass frame on ground. wanting to get to know more about it before i start it ,and get it dug out of ground . Thanks Paul.
Hello
Hello, and welcome Catz4! Hopefully the tires are ok on your "sunken treasure". Tires tend to rot when they are left un-inflated for long periods of time. That size rubber is getting really hard to find these days. Get in one more post to unlock the private message feature, then send me and email address that I can send the manuals to.
Thanks Hello yes tires are going to have to be replaced they are rotted to bad, they have tread large cracks not safe to use. Maybe next week get it dug out back at shop to see what I've gotten into.
I hope to see some pics on a 1200 hrs 40F posted here. Nice find indeed.
I'm gonna apologize in advance if this question has been asked because this forum is long as can be. But can anyone point me in the direction of parts for a 40F sn736017? Specifically swivel motor parts. Need oil seals in gland nut badly. And possible a back up motor. Thanks in advance.
Have 40F home now comes TLC !
Did you get the counter weight with the unit? It bolts on to the brackets in front of the engine. If not you may want to ask the seller what happened to it. Also the unit can be towed if the torque hubs are disengaged but the tow speed should be limited to 5 mph.
Your counter weight is missing Catz4!
Yes, it was taken off 40yrs ago. The bad / good is I have to figure out how heavy it should be to build a new one ,or slim chance find one close to me to buy. Good is that this unit hasn't been extended all way out , the electrician used this for most changing bulbs and ballast in parking lots. Is it possible to get copy service /parts ,wiring &hyd schematics? When weather gets nicer will drain all fluids change filters ,TLC clean then will try to start it. would like to read up on this lift first get to know it.
No the counter weight was taken off a long time ago. I disengage hubs worked to get unit out of hole, pulled out on road, went about block brakes started smoking. not going back so I only had about 10 blocks to go . I pulled hubs that way I know motors,brakes are released. Brakes rotors are in good shape don't want to damage them. At 5mph wheel bearing be ok short distance. Gear lube was going to change anyway. Planetary Sun gears gear lube looks new ,good to see . Boom has very little wear on it , most of life of this boom was never extended out very far. I believe this since unit hasn't had the counter weight on it in 40 yrs. Unit was used in parking lot maintenance light bulbs ballast. A few years ago when scrape was high previous owner almost scrape this unit. Sure glad he didn't .
Certainly! Use the private message feature to send me an email address you'd like the manual set sent to, and I'll get it right out to you.
Hi Austin022, when you say "swivel" do you mean the basket swivel or the whole boom "swing"? One we verify that, we can find a JLG part number for what you need and start Googling it. There are more places all the time specializing in obsolete parts for forklifts and boom lifts.
I found this number on my 40F today. 03 507200 Is it my serial number?
Hello, know this may be wrong place. Trying to find wiring information for JLG 60FR thanks
Hello. My 40f has been doing good over the years. However it has developed a new problem. Everything works as it should. But when the lift warms up after 20-30 min of use the going up goes really slow. It will even totally stop moving up after a while. All other functions work fine after it has warmed up. I have noticed if I put "hi rev" on it will go up good and fast until the mercury switch kicks in! Any suggestions!
I'm working on an old JLG 60 FR. I know this is an old thread, but it seems to contain more info than the rest of the web. I'm wondering if anyone would have a copy of the service manual or more importantly wiring schematics for this machine? The wiring has definitely been messed with over the years and I'm having multiple issues. For example, it moves ok in one direction but not the other, but the "good" direction of travel changes if I switch the valve wiring around in the panel. The steering also quit working now. I believe I may have mixed up a wire because it worked before I touched anything. I typically do general maintenance on a wide array of equipment and autos, and I have some electrical training so I think I could get to the bottom of this if I had a little info..
Hello Luckytalons, no has come forward with a service manual for a 60F as yet. I believe I have some wiring diagrams in PDF at home, I'll check later today. Any idea what brand of controllers your 60FR has? Racine? Moog? PQ? It makes minor differences in the diagrams
I may actually be able to help with that. After going thru the whole dilemma with the dump valves (which were fine) we ended up with the same situation where boom up and rotate only worked in one direction. Turns out there was a bad ground (brown wire on ours) in the ground side control box. Because the system switches polarity (UGH) it will work fine one way but not the other. Hope this helps.
The machine has PQ controls. I got the steering working again. I disconnected a wire by accident. The drive issue would be nice to fix. It seems strange that it moves very very slow in one direcrion and fine the other way until wiring is flipped around. For now I wired in a switch to reverse the direction easily. I appreciate any and all information I can find.
Wow that sounds like a promising tip. Thank you! Even if that's not the exact problem I'm getting a better picture of how things work. I have been suspicious of a ground issue. When I look at it again most likely Monday I will be checking for good grounds. Thanks again.
@Luckytalons These 60F drawings are using Racine controllers on Racine valves, closest I can do at this point.
Awesome! It's great these drawings exist. Thanks again for taking the time to help out, and for holding on to this rare info for the benefit of others.
Hi All, I’ve been working on the 40F for a month now and unfortunately, it’s no further along. Too many issues to post them all here today, but I have 2 that hopefully can be fixed easier than the rest. 1st one is with the Racine valve body (bang bang). I removed it and reconditioned it, new O-rings, flushed it out, cleaned up the fittings, changed 2 springs, and unjammed the platform leveler. Reassembled it and connected it back up. No leaks, looks good, but now all functions only work when I manually engage them. Switch works, voltage is 11.5 volt at each end when the switch is thrown; spool glides freely and returns to center. I’m thinking I may have reassembled it wrong. The only part of the solenoid that I was not sure of when I put it back together were the 2 heavy metal parts that are separated by a single spring. Each of those metal parts has one end tapered and one is larger then the other. I placed the 2 tapered ends pointing towards the center with the spring between them. The smaller one I think I placed at the outer edge, and the larger towards the valve body side. All of the hoses were marked before and the functions work so I’m feeling they are not the issue. 2nd dilemma is electrical also. I blew the alternator using a booster pack. Took out the diodes. I had a backup alternator laying around, a nice new Bosch alternator. Had to modify its housing a bit, not a big deal, needed a bushing, and had to drill it out a little. Bolted it up, connected it to the 2 leads and tested my switches. Heard all the proper clicks, so I fired it up. Nice full charge on the meter tested the tele to see if the extra voltage would help or fix the problem with the bang bang. Nope still nothing there, so went to shut it off, and well couldn’t. Tried everything, switched the control box from the rear to the platform, turned off the key, went underneath to the main kill switch and still nothing. I was going to hit the choke, but I pulled the fuel line instead. After the switches all worked fine again. Weird! There is another place to plug into but that lead seems wrong. I tried that after but the normal clicks I hear when the key is turned to the on position aren’t there. Those are my 2 dilemmas for today!
First of all Barr, you may have power to the solenoid valves, but do you also have ground? You need both to make those coils work. The new alternator you installed is back feeding into the ignition circuit. That will be through the small wire. A diode will fix it.
Hey Off, Thanks for your fast reply. The neg. side of each solenoid has a short jumper to ground. The ground is one of the 4 long bolts that holds the solenoid in place. That in turn runs into the valve body which is bolted directly to the 40F's frame. I tried switching those ground leads and the positive leads thinking maybe there was a polarity issue as well. I took pictures before dismantling the body from the 40F and all the connections seem to be like they were originally. I just came in and pulled the small wire coming from the alt. The battery has a full charge. I started the 40F up and without the small wire connected it was possible to shut it off. While it was off the meter read zero of course. I then hit the tele switch in and out. The meter went into the neg. in both positions, so the switch and the ground connection must be okay. As for the diode, I see what you mean but why would that be? The old alt didn't need it. What type or property should that diode be? The connection from the alt goes directly to the positive side of the coil now. Not sure about the large red line. I think it may go to the gauge, then out to the starter solenoid.
WOW, I'm just seeing this. Sorry that I've not checked in.
Hi Rick39, I've played around with that adjustment. There is little response. I have it centered in that either direction the engine rpm's drop. Did you say there is a filter screen in there?
Okay today was better Dave, I installed the diode. I wasn't sure of the properties so I just matched one to the 2 that were in the panel. Found out the hard-way that it's directional. Charge is great, and all switches are functioning again. Thanks again OFF. You are amazing man!
As for the Racine solenoid's they are grounded. I'm leaning towards me assembling them wrong. I put it together with the leads facing the outside of the body. Then goes the larger liner with the taper side towards the center. Then goes the spring. Then goes the smaller liner with the taper facing the center. Then the thick end plate held in place by the long bolts (x4). As for the inside, the spool or shuttle followed by the flat washer with cut outs they go on each end. Then the 2 springs, one on each side, then the push rod assembly one on each side. If anyone has pictures or drawings or schematics from the company that would be great. If I press and hold the brass push pins on each end the valve works. I have voltage up to the solenoid when the switch is engaged in both directions. You can feel it push back when you through the switch but it's like it's not strong enough to work. If it were one of them I'd say it must have worn out but all six at once probably not. Any input welcome. Thanks,
Anyone out there with Bertea knowledge? Here's where I'm at. I am thinking the problem is within these 2 valves. I have zero functions from the Bertea valve body. ZERO. Even when I manually engage the valve body nothing works. I have dismantled the valve body and cleaned it. Removed the fine screen in that body and cleaned it. The dump valve has been cleaned and a new solenoid and valve has been installed, even though the old one checked out fine. Adjusted the Mobile-Monoblock valve pictured. It did nothing, no change in anything so I placed it back where it was (I hope). Adjusted the Fluid Control Valve pictured and cleaned it out. Did not find any filter in there. Thanks again for everyone's help especially OFF who I've tortured now since giving birth to this thread.
Hi, I found a break-down and assembly of the Racine solenoids. I put them together correctly so I'm still unsure what's going on there.
I'd like to put a test port on the pilot control valve pictured here. It's the one marked Fluid Control inc. It has a drain plug that is 1/4 inch below the adjuster. Does anyone know if I would get an accurate read from there? Thanks again,
Hello. I have an old 40F that I'd love to have any available manuals for. I see this forum has been amazing at supporting those of us with these old lifts. I've been unable to determine if mine uses Racine or Bertea valves yet. I'd really appreciate if you guys would be willing to email manuals for both to me. My email linked to my profile will work. Thank you in advance.
Manuals Sent
Welcome to HEF jokins. The Racine/Bertea valve discussion only applies to the proportional functions drive, boom lift, and swing, other functions are bang valves. It's pretty easy to distinguish between the two, they both are a stack of three valves where the Racine valves have two coils with wires going to them on each stack of the three valves, Bertea valves are different because they have noticeable "control knobs" to manually operate the valves in the absence of electrical control power, Racine valve do not have those manual control knobs.
WOW now this is content AA++ Lads question to follow I'm sure when My Machine finally arrives..
Welcome GTRClive. Are you getting a JLG 40F in the future?
Well short story.... I bought a 40H 6 weeks ago, from a local Equipment company, for the price i paid they where going to service it. It was 300klicks away at another depot so knowing they agreed it would be fully working I was happy... In the end I lost my **** over it as they kept coming up with lame excuses as to why it wasn't ready for shipping to me. Asked for my money back and in the end they gave me a discount and they delivered it for free (was going to cost me $600 to ship).... It finally came yesterday and sure enough it couldn't even drive of the rig or down my drive.... Had to unlock the axles and drag in down the drive.... So lets say I was really happy to find this forum with like minded Muppets like me that loves to fix things them selves.... Oh I just saw your in AB to... Calgary or Ed ??
40H's are pretty straight forward, shouldn't be a problem getting it moving again. It will most likely be a lack of current getting down from the basket or a lack of hydraulic pressure at the right times. I believe you can still download the 40H manuals directly from the JLG website. Adventure time! I'm in the Edmonton area.
I've been working on a 60F with travel problems. When I move the travel controller one way there is nothing, the other way bogs down the engine but no movement. Wire #13 goes to approx. 6 volts when controller is moved off of center and then down to .54 one way and up to 9.45 the other. Wire #14 goes to approx. 10 volts off of center and does not change. Any ideas?
The controller is working fine. What happens if you pull one of the other levers just a bit and then try to travel? Any difference? Racine proportional valve bank, right? Will travel work manually on ground control when you push in the little pins? Have you tried to center the spool? On ground control, turn the allen head adjust screw (it's pointing at the ground) outward until the function starts to engage, then turn it in until the opposite function starts to engage. Count the turns from one to the other, leave it in the middle of the two and retighten the lock nut.
Thanks OFF, I'll try this next time I'm out there. I forgot to mention that I did switch wires back by the valve, between the drive and the swing controller and then the machine would move.
Man! This is like a gold mine. We just started working on a 40F today and I have been looking high and low for info on these things. It is pretty scarce. It would be awesome if I could get a set of those drawings, OFF. I think this is probably the longest running forum thread that I have ever come across.
Anyone know where to find some of the bigger wheels/tires? Mine has the solid tires. Doesn't do very well on the ground. Are the hubs the same size as newer models?
BDub, I have went to our Cenex Coop (not sure you have one down there) and they cross referenced or matched the existing with a similar tire. We have a standard farm type tire you'd find on a wagon perhaps on the front (we foam filled them) and a standard one you'd find on the rear of a tractor (also foam filled). I can't answer the question on the hubs. I have been trying to find out for a couple of years if any of the drive motors from later years will work on my "76" model as I have one that is worn enough it won't hold fluid with new seals. Good luck
If I remember right, the older machines did not have a case drain line back to the tank. So if the motor has any amount of wear on it the oil getting by the pistons will build pressure and blow out the seal instead of draining back to tank. Shouldn't be to difficult to install the line, the biggest thing is whether or not the center post is drilled and tapped. I believe they are Parker motors and last I checked, about 2-3 years ago they were still available from a hydraulics store.
EX, Thanks for the feedback. Mine does not have the case drain and OFF suggested that awhile back but didn't find anyone around here that's capable of installing it as I will require drilling, tapping and a fittings installed on mine. I may have to expand my search. The drive motors on ours are made by Hydraulics Inc. ( Sturtevant, WI.) and from my research was purchased or swallowed up by Poclain Hydraulics. Efforts to contact them with a need for two motors to match (if they even make one that will bolt on) mine have not been successful. If you have any contact info or leads would be appreciated!
Thanks for the reply. The solid, forklift type tires don't work very well on the soft ground. They seem to sink very easily. As heavy as these are, I would like to find some wider tires for it.
Take a look at these, they are not original. I can get sizes if you need them.
Does anybody know if there is a chain replacement or inspection timeframe for a 40f?
Typically, if you use it commercially it should be inspected annually. I'm not sure on the chain replacement as ours is still in ggod shape. OFF or Willie?
My last post was April of 2014. Been working on it ever since. Finally got it completely rebuilt. 3.5 years. I'm kinda slow. Sure wouldn't make a living at it.
New basket, all new paint, 1 new tire, all new hoses, all new wiring, new engine.
before pics (2014)
I'm a proud new owner of a JLG 40F, everything appears to work but more than a few hands have been in the wiring. I'm wondering if somebody would be so kind as to send me the manuals? It appears to be all racine valves.
Btw Jonesy that is a beautiful old machine! Maybe someday I'll have the time to clean mine up as good as that one.
And from reading this entire thread it appears I need three posts before somebody can pm me, so this should do it. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Just purchased a JLG 40F, hoping for any manual I can find. Any emails would be appreciated. Thanks!
In searches for the original 40-50, would you have to add any additional info? Thought I had a 40F, but am not sure now with this info. Thanks again!
I found a plate on the bucket that shows it as a Condor Lift - is that a kind of knock off from the original JLG machines? I cannot find searches that combine the two. Any help appreciated - thanks!
Hello All !st time poster. Hats off to all the knowledge base on this forum!! Not trying to hijack this thread but I have a question about a 40f that I acquired.( I have a bertea proportional valve bank. ) I have no pressure to the bertea valve bank. (swing lift drive). I also can not find a dump valve in the circuit? I know the pump is working. Is the dump valve in the bertea valve bank? If so where are the wires going to it. I have three sol. and three sets of wires. Im perplexed. Any help would be appretieated Thx Ed
Then we'll provide a link to the thread specific to your question: Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums.
Sorry about the double post. Im not very forum savvy . My mistake
When I'm up in the platform working the machine runs fine then all the sudden shuts off will not restart from platform the motor just turns over I can't seem to find out if it's the solenoid or some safety switch that needs to be replaced from the ground everything works will start right up if I wait a half-hour sometimes I can get in the platform and it'll start right back up
Hey Mike, Is your choke connected to a solenoid? If so do you have a choke function on the platform control?
Know the choke solenoid is broke I have manually have to choke it but when it's running and it shuts off I never have to choke it after that it should just start a usually starts right up that's that's why I'm thinking it's a safety issue because if I if I depress the foot safety switch it automatically kills the motor
I can get in the machine right now get in the platform and operate it for about a half hour then then all the sudden it shuts off
I had one do the same thing .It was the timer relays in the upper control box .They are black and mounted on the far right corner of the box .Replace them both .When you do .Do the one at a time replacing the wires so you don't get messed up .
Upper control box can you explain where alittle better . Is in the the platform or engine compartment
There are 2boxes in the engine compartment
Hi Mike It is in the upper control box in the basket .When you open the box it will be under were your drive joystick .They tucked up in the right corner . If need call me on my cell 908-305-8457. thanks Ed
Ed when I get home I will text you a few pictures if that's ok
sounds good
My controls
Hi Mike, I can't think of anything in the ignition circuit that would cause what you're describing. They are pretty basic, just point to point wiring with nothing in between but connections. First thing I would do is check for proper voltage at the positive terminal of the ignition coil, both when the engine is running normally and after it quits and won't restart. Look for hot spots that mean high resistance on connections and toggle switches. If you're voltage is staying good, you might have an engine type problem.
Thanks for the help guys still tring to diagnose the problem keep me in mind if you guys think of anything
Hello, I am new to this forum and I have recently purchased a JLG 40F Boom lift, I am having a very hard time finding a service manual for this machine, hopefully someone can help me, thanks in advance!
Hi everyone, It seems that it is next to impossible to find a manual for a JLG 40F. IF some one has one, could you please send me one. Thank You
I got you John D. Check your PM's.
I have a JLG 40F and it is leaking hydraulic fluid out of the telescoping tubes, any where I can get a repair manual for it? I have a feeling it’s one of the connections or a seal goin bad. Also trying to figure out how to pull the cylinder out. Any help would be appreciated.
Welcome Glbuilders! Just use the private message function to send me an email address you would the manuals in PDF format sent to, and I'll get right on it. I believe all the connections for the telescope cylinder are located on the very rear face of the cylinder. Take the cover off the back of the boom (3 small bolts) and you should be able to see if it is leaking from one of those connections. Hopefully it is, that's the easiest fix possible. Also check the basket slave leveling cylinder mounted on the top of the basket end of the boom. Your leak may be there also. There is a procedure in the service manual for removing the telescope cylinder if it comes down to that. Good luck
Just wanted to put a BIG thanks out to OFF and willy59 for their continued help in this thread. OFF has informed me the main shaft seal on the hydraulic pump for my 1979 JLG 40FR is a C/R 9878
Thank you Shredon, it's been a pleasure helping you. And a big thanks to the Heavy Equipment Forum for giving us a place to get together like this. And od1, the member who started this topic/thread. Sharing ideas and information - the good side of the internet. That seal information actually came from another member who hasn't posted yet but has been in contact though the PM system. Additional thanks to Shredon for converting the PDF manuals we've been sending out to a newer format that is searchable and take up way less space. Each section is now 2mb or less instead of 6mb+
Hey all. I am a newbie needing help with a 1984 JLG 40G I have owned for 20 years and kept going. I have the parts manual and maintenance manual. It doesnt have any good electrical troubleshooting or even electrical parts layout and identification. I have a problem mentioned by Senior member OFF back in 2013. The lift wont swing, lift, or drive from either the basket or ground controls. OFF said check the dump valve solenoids near the engine on a 40F model. Mine has relays that look like a Ford starter solenoid. Some behind the engine and a couple near the Racine valves. Can anyone suggest where and how to check the solenoids and which one it would be? I Would like to have a decent schematic to follow if anyone can help. I have tried the 40H wiring diagrams but they are different. Any parts layout diagrams in existence? It would be nice to know where each electrical part is and its function. I have always fixed every problem in 20 years but I dont have enough info to fix the drive, swing, and lift issue. Also I am a bit ignorant of what a dump valve is and does. The second story roof on the house is off and it is raining every day. Please help anybody
Hi D 40G, as a person has removed the roof and added a second story while still living in the house.....I understand what rain means. Those solenoids I mentioned do look like Ford starter solenoids, only they are silver in color. Quickest way to make it work? Take a good sized jumper wire with alligator clips on it and connect the large terminals of each solenoid, one solenoid at a time. One will blow the horn, one will make the aux. pump kick in, one will make your lift/swing/drive work, the other will make your telescope/steer/level work. There may be others for things like an electric choke. Once you've identified each solenoids function, you can pin point the one you're having a problem with. You can operate the 40G with the jumper in place, just remove it when you shut down or it will drain your battery. On ground control - you should have power to one of the large terminals and to one of the small terminals. There may only be one small terminal. If it's got two small terminals, the other one is grounded. What this solenoid is doing is powering the dump valve for the proportional valve bank. A dump valve dumps the hydraulic flow/pressure when you are not using any functions. On basket control, the dump valve is operated with the foot switch. On ground, it is powered whenever the ignition is on.
I tried every solenoid with no lift,or swing movement. There are 8 total. One for auxiliary pump, one for fuel on solenoid, one for starter, one for horn, one for high speed motor. I have a Duetz 2 cyl diesel so one is glow plugs. The two left must be the dump valve solenoids. The 2 close to the Racine valves are one for starter and other one for?. One of the back 4 must be a dump valve and one near the Racine valves must be the other dump valve. Think the dump valve for the lift, swing and drive is bad? Wiring is spliced everywhere on this machine. I have replaced 2 plastic connectors with amphenol quality ones. It was a rental machine before I got it but the best I could find for $8500 20 years back. It was bought with 5200 hours and now has 7560. It is a personal machine not used often now. Manual doesnt identify dump valve location. i really need to wash 34 years of dirt and grease off everything but afraid water might damage the Racine valves or something. I tried taking pictures but the relays are hard to see through all the wiring and hoses. i used to do machine tool wiring and this thing looks wired by a 5 year old. Plus no wiring schematics or part ID schematic. Has 4 relays on a circuit board and 3 transistors and about 20 diodes. Not sure of what they do either. Thanks much for your advice and help. Your instructions are excellent.
Is the dump valve on Racine proportional valves on a JLG 40G electrically controlled? Seems like it has to be if a solenoid similar to a Ford starter relay controls it. Could mine be clogged or stuck to not work? All the manual says is Racine proportional valves have a built in dump valve. No wiring diagram or parts layout diagram to refer to. Going out to take a picture of the proportional valve assembly to see if I can identify where the dump valve is.
This picture according to a 60H manual is my dump valve. Is the pin sticking out the end supposed to be loose? Can I put 12v to the coil wire to try to activate it? Going to try to trace down which solenoid activates it. Wiring is a spliced mess on my 34 year old machine. Do they stick very often? I tried a jumper on every solenoid but none activate it. Next I guess is put a voltmeter on the terminal and jumper the suspected control solenoid to see if any voltage gets to it.
There is 12v to this with key on. The pin in the end moves easily in and out with the power off or on. Never noticed the pin before.in the end to know if it moves. It seems like I have the right parts breakdown for it IF the 60-70H is the same. How do I test it? Cant hear it make any noise because the fuel ON solenoid is so loud. If I am supposed to be able to hear it click I need to disconnect the fuel solenoid and then the key is on the other side. Are rebuild kits available?
Brilliant me, the battery + terminal is 15 inches away. No click or noise when power is applied. It seems like it should click and maybe the end pin move too.
It looks like the coil is replaceable. I have a part number even if a 60H is the same. It is a JLG number and probably not available.
I fixed it. The Deutz diesel is a great engine. Most fuel efficient diesel I have ever owned. Vibration caused the coil ground wire to break the crimp connector off. Crimped a new one on and it is a swingin. and a liftin and hopefully a drivin, havent checked yet. Thanks much OFF for pointing me in the right direction and after finding what it loolks like in the 60-70H manual, I was able to troubleshoot it from there. Coil had resistance so I figured it was good. Grabbed the ground wire and it wasnt connected. The coil is still available from a dealer I found for $55.94 +.
D 40G, sorry for not being there for you, I wasn't near a computer all day. Glad you found & solved your problem. Good job. Bad grounds are very common on valves, and a real show-stopper. For Future Reference: The Racine dump valve looks like a Racine solenoid valve (Bang-Bang valve) that is used on basket swivel, basket tilt, steer, telescope, only with one coil rather than two coils. A good way to find a dump valve is to start at the main hydraulic pump, and follow the hoses. The first thing you come to will be the dump valve. Typically a pump will be 3 sections, and each section will be tied to a dump valve. One section for the proportional valve bank, one section for solenoid valve bank or banks, and one section for high drive.
You still were the only one who by making the comment that "if your swing lift and drive isnt working check the dump valve", that led me to find the problem. I googled over and over in different ways till it found your 2013 post comment. The old machine hasnt had high speed drive for about 15 years. I dont have high speed motor function either. I did buy a clone chinese solenoid for high speed motor last year, but it only lasted a short time. I might try to troubleshoot the high speed hydraulic circuit to see if it is something simple. It doesnt seem like the mechanical parts of hydraulic devices has changed much in 50 or more years. I needed to learn more about how each part works. Before the internet it was go to a library that had a manual and hope it could help you troubleshoot your proiblem. You are close to my age so you know well what we went through fixing things in those days. I would not have found a JLG lift manual. I have the factory manuals but it isnt well written and lacks troubleshooting electrically. The H model manual is better written and had the dump valve breakdown. Someone like ypu could have found the problem in 15 minutes. I was getting worried I had a problem that parts werent available to fix. Thanks again for taking your time to help teach people like me with your many years of troubleshooting experience. Without your knowledge, most likely my machine would have been dead for a long time.
Glad I could help D 40G. The JLG company didn't spend a lot of effort on the "G" series. They were sort of a filler between the "F" series which they built for 10+ years and the "H" series which was in production for 10+ years also. The "G" was only in production about 2 or 3 years. The company I was working for in about 1982 had a pair of 40G's. Only ones I've ever seen in person. There was no factory support in those days. You either figured it out, or you didn't fix it. Now Genie tells us that if you haven't found the problem in 2 minutes, you're wasting time and you should be on the phone to the factory tech guys. "the times, they are a changin"
Hi all , another newbie. Just bought a 40f ?? or a 40-45 serial number 724285 not sure of year,a lot of info here is still soaking in. Machine all functions work other than swing of turret hoses jump but nothing happens .Took pump and brake off opened up brake and full of goobers and jumungee bad.need to find oring kit and clutch brake kit . It is and Ausco brake looking to get any and all manuals , has cutler hammer controls. not sure of valve bodies don't look like racine more round with one wire. Wisconsin engine hrs about 2400 no id badges any help will be great thanks
new to jlg only reason I think it is a 40-45 only has one let down knob on front plate of turret. has a let down valve on back of boom ram
Welcome. Sounds like an old one you've got there. The majority of "F series" I've seen had 3 manual valves on the front of the turret. Some did have Culter Hammer controllers so that's very possible. When you pulled the swing motor out, did it turn at all when you activated the function?
no it did not turn at all the brake was full of juumunjee (crap) all cleaned up now just have to find the clutches ,plates and springs and o-rings
Hello, first time post, I have been reading this forum for about 3 yrs since I have owned my JLG 40f I now have a problem with the lift, travel, swing group of valves and was wondering if I could get some wiring, hydraulic schematics? Thanks for all who have posted all the information on this site!
I forgot to mention on previous post that my lift has Bertea proportional valves, but the dump valve for the proportional valves says Racine on the end of the valve, Is this common? Thanks
Anything is possible. I have yet to see two of those 40F's that were built exactly the same using all the same components. PM sent on the manuals. I also have some good Bertea drawings I can pass along to you.
Thanks Off for your help, my e-mail is [email protected] Let me know if I owe you anything for the manuals.
Received the manuals and the extra drawings for Bearta valves, still haven't found my problem yet but i'm working on it. If I run a jumper wire from the battery to the Racine dump valve and manually turn the knob on the end of the lift valve I can get it to work, so I think I have a wiring problem. Thank you for the manuals they contain a lot of information!
hi I see this is an old thread but I happen to be looking for some manuals for the 40f as well
Hello Bail, welcome to the Heavy Equipment forum! I'll do my best to hook you up with those manuals.
thanks I would appreciate it a lot, I have a machine that worked great until today when it decided to steer in one direction only. I'm not sure how to differentiate between the different types of valves< bertea and racine? thanks again
Well, all the steer valves in 40F's were Racine, referred to in this thread as "bang-bang" valves. Most common problem would be a bad ground or broken wires at the valve coils. Usually located in a stack of 3 valves on the same side of the machine where the hydraulic tank is located. manuals sent
@bail Check the steer toggle switch first.
hey Im not sure what you mean by steering toggle, I do have a steering select toggle below the main control panel but I only have one steering axle. the drive axle is fixed in place by factory as far as I can tell. I will take some more photos of the control panel and ground control panel later to show you what a mess it is. I enclosed some photos of the steering/drive joystick. I don't recognize these from any of the options in the manual, I'm assume multiple people have worked on machine over the years. do you recognize this joystick? one of the little springs was just laying in the bottom so I put it back in thinking that would fix it...haha wishful thinking.
wow, that's really old! One of the first JLG's, they made their own controllers for a while. Good news is, that controller is made up of 4 very common micro switches, and most likely one of them failed. Check the power into and out of the micro switch that moves - when you steer the direction that no longer works. That will tell you whether your problem is a control, or further down the line. Later JLG's used a spring loaded (return to center) toggle switch for steering. It would be quote easy to convert your machine to a toggle on the dash for steering. All you'd need is an unused hole.
I happen to be looking for some manuals for the 40f as well if any one would mind sending them to me. I am looking for safety stickers(decals) also.
Hello, and welcome to the Heavy Equipment Forum. I have the manuals you need, and I still have some of factory function & safety decal/plates for these machines. Let me know which ones you're looking for.
new owner of a 40f and don't know much about them. i'd also really appreciate the wiring diagrams if you don't mind sharing. I bought mine needing a head gasket which turned into needing a motor. I put a 30hp diesel in it. got it running but as soon as I start it the boom starts to go up. and that's about all the movement I get out of it. it did swing left one time from the ground box. the bucket controls aren't doing anything. my email is [email protected] if you could send me any info id really appreciate it.
@landon baker I'm on it. I'll send them tonight when I get home from work.
Does anyone know what the tire pressure should be on the 40f? The stickers that should have the pressure on them are gone and the manuals don't seem to say. Also what diameter are the valve stems? they're bigger than automotive so I'm guessing .625"? Other than tires, the old lady is still limping along!
I'd go a minimum pressure of 50 PSI, maximum 65 PSI. There are two sized of common valve stems, .453 and .625, any tire shop should have lots of them.
Thanks Off, I guess it's the bigger one then, the tire shop said they didn't carry them. And of course I now have one leaking around the base!
My 40F has 72psi posted by each wheel. These appear to be stenciled on and not decals so I don't know if it's right or not.
that tire shop must do nothing but passenger car tires. Try another one. They aren't uncommon at all. Try a NAPA store, they sell them too. These are good ones. https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NTH90438
depending on how many ply the tires were, it could be correct. I was playing it safe. If you've ever had a tire "zipper" on you while filling it up.......you learn to respect the rubber.
It's great to see that folks are still watching this thread! It's been my number one place for 40F info for almost 10 years. Thanks guy, especially off!
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Anyone know where I might find rubber boots for the Racine style joysticks?
Not sure I have any left, but I'll look tomorrow and let you know.
7000428 is the JLG part number for the Racine controller boots. I found some here on a Google search: https://www.surplusstockworldwide.com/Search/Brand/JLG/CurrentPage/5
Thanks for the help. I didn't have the number when I had searched for them in the past.
Need help please!! Jlg 40f Back story- drive, up down and rotate was bogging motor down so pulled filter out by Bertea valve, cleaned put back in. o some lines looking for small inline screen filters with no luck. Fired it back up and now have no bertea valve operations. Tried bleeding some lines close to the valve, played with the flow divider a bit, let it run for quit a while. Found that if I had high idle and high speed on I could get all my movements but only if I’m driving forward and back.
Hello Asa Tower, I saw very few Bertea valved 40F's back in the day, so I never became good at them or even figured out how they worked. I've attached a Bertea valve manual. Hope it helps.
I didn't realize until now I could attach files directly to a post. That one above is a little large, Mods, let me know if I've done a bad thing please. Here's the Bertea basket wiring schematic. Check out those 2 diodes, they appear to be in play in this situation.
Thanks for the reply I ended up finding the problem, it was the dump valve causing all the problems. Took apart and cleaned, good as new! Just did head and manifold gaskets as well very smooth machine
Hello Everyone, This is a awesome thread! I have been reading through and have learned a bunch! I'm new here and hope I can make some connections and get some help? I have a 40H that wouldn't drive. read all through the manual and talked to local guy who told me to clean the spindles the coils go over on the racine proportioning valve. This unit has been setting a couple of years with very little use! I cleaned everything up and then tested the functions by pushing in on the little center pin. They all seemed to work better until I pushed the one for forward drive, it went in very hard [almost a pop!] and now nothing works except when i go to the basket and put my foot in the Deadman switch the lift takes off in forward! I'm assuming the valve for the forward motion is stuck. My problem is how to get it to pop back out? Do I have any options without taking that valve apart and if I do, it looks like there are a million parts that could potentially fall out! Any advice for a Newbie?
Hi Chuck, You've got Racine proportional valves? Later model "H" series went to Vickers. What happens when you push the other small button for the other direction of drive? Will it push? Does it have any effect? At the bottom of the valve section, there is a set screw with a 1/2" lock nut on it. This set screw adjusts the centering of the valve. Sounds like your valve went full stroke one way and got stuck. You may be able to bring it back by adjusting it the other way. Screw the center set screw in about 3 full turns, try the drive. Then if that does nothing, screw it out about 6 full turns and try it again. If that doesn't work at all, you'll be taking the valve apart.
Hi Folks, I have just purchased a JLG 40G (date looks like 82) that has been sitting outside for a long time (about 7yrs) without the engine cover on, View attachment 202607 in the Vermont weather. The engine runs good until it is under load, then slows to about idle or less, moving it was a challenge I noticed the oil has water mixed in, I will change that tomorrow evening with any luck. it seems to have lots of electrical issues, (responds when it wants to) I believe I have seen every function work at least once, (with the exception of the AUX pump), but they are all very sporadic at best. Overall the machine looks to still be solid, I would love any and all advice on these issues, and if anyone would be willing to sharing any manuals for this, I would very much appreciate them. I'm really looking forward, to putting her back into good shape. Thank you all, this is the best place I have found for information on these machines.
Hi John, welcome to HEF. I don't have a manual set for the 40G unfortunately, but they were made up from parts somewhere between a 40F and a 40H of course. The 40F manuals I can email to you. I believe the 40H manuals are downloadable from the JLG website. I looked after two 40G's back in the early 80's, they were brand new machines at the time. I remember the sliding hoods being a real pain, even when new. Probably why yours was left without a hood on it for so long. Yours has a V-4 Wisconsin gas engine. I think most of them did. Those engines absorbed rainwater, so I think your first project should be to drop that oil and filter and start fresh. A tank of fresh gas and set of spark plugs might fix it right up. When it falls on it's face under load, to me that's bad plugs/bad gas. Replace the oil in that "oil-bath" air cleaner too. The fact that you've witnessed every function work at least once is very encouraging. I think I might start by opening up the basket and ground panels and spraying everything with some sort of water drying/displacing spray. Look at all the exposed wiring, like on the valve body for rusted or loose connections. There are several ground wire connections on the valve of each function that like to rott off. Always - start with the simple stuff first.
Will do, Thank you! I hope to have an update after the weekend
Drain the float bowl on the carburetor too if you haven't already.
Flushed the oil twice, then filled with 30W rotilla, this made a big difference, but now I cant engage drive to test it......... Pulled the entire control panel apart, sand blasted and painted the housing, nex ti will clean or remake every connection so I will know they are good. Also testing the components as best as I can in the QR controllers. There was a capacitor laying in the bottom of the control box, very corroded. I have tried to research as best I can for its specs. not finding much... I tested it, and it is totally dead. I have found a different machine with a capacitor in the same location, but not sure if it actually is the same. Does anyone know about this capacitor, value and or function? It may be a 1000uf 25V if it is the same as the other JLG model.
I'm looking at a 40F PQ controller/Racine valve drawing, and it shows a 100uf 25V capacitor. JLG part #1540002. The drawing shows it going from terminal #35 to terminal #25. #25 is grounded, which makes sense. but What it actually does in the circuit? It's in series with a diode that runs to terminal #36, and that's listed as ignition power. Might be something to do with stopping the engine from continuing to run after the ignition is shut off. It is involved with power supply to the controllers however. The diodes they used are JLG #3990001, spec'd as 3.5 amp 1000 volt and #3990010, spec'd as 6 amp 1000 volt. I'd go with 6 amp if you need to replace any. That's what most of them are anyway.
On the ground control drawing, it shows another capacitor. This one is 1000uf 25V and uses the same part number as the basket control one they spec'd out at 100uf. Maybe that 100uf I saw was a misprint. Go with 1000uf. That's all I've ever known them to use.
Will do, thank you
I think I am making headway... New Gaped Plugs, Adjusted valve lash, replaced Carburetor, messed with throttle, and governor adjustments. Checked mechanical advance, to be sure it wasn't frozen, very little change... tweeked the timing counter clockwise, made it a little worse, tweeked the timing clockwise, a little better, five more tweeks, the engine is really starting to sound about right. I used the machine yesterday to do repairs to my roof, tweeked it one more time when it stalled trying to swing the basket. I was actually able to use it, and move it almost like it was meant to be used, big sigh of relief! I still have a few more things to fix on it, but it is looking positive Thank you OFF for your advise and support. I really appreciate your assistance, and this forum for being here, and giving lots of ideas and advice.
I need help finding parts to rebuild my JLG 45 master cylinder. The machine looks like all these pictures of 40F's but I think it's a 45 something. Early model for sure. I removed the piston from the master cylinder and it had aluminum insides with seals. Anybody have any documentation I can compare to what I have?
I have a 40 f. Recently it has started slowly bleeding down on the lift cylinder. The cylinder was rebuilt not long ago maybe 100 hours. Worked flawlessly until now.I can't figure out what exactly is the holding valve in the system? Can anybody help me? Any other suggestions as to where to look for the bleed would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome Kbitt. The holding valve for the boom lift cylinder is a rectangular aluminium block bolted to the hydraulic piping on front of the boom lift cylinder. They do go bad sometimes. JLG part number 4640265 The other possibility is a leaking manual decent valve. Make sure all 3 valves are tightly shut.
So is a holding valve the same as a counterbalance valve then? If so could I pull the return line back to the valve off and see if I get fluid from there? would that be an accurate way to diagnose if it is the counter balance valve? I am speculative of the manual descent falls. It is an older machine that set for quite a while. I used it quite a bit over the summer. Had the lift cylinder rebuild at the end of summer. Had no problems for a while after and then it slowly started leaking off.
yes, same as counter balance. How fast is the boom dropping? Were the manual decent valves used/disturbed at all over the summer?
I will hire you today! My 40f worked fine last fall when parked. Tried to get it going today. The drive, lift, swing will not work from the ground control or basket control. Is this more apt to be an electrical problem or hydraulic? If its electric would it be the wiring in the basket? Thanks for any help!!!
More than likely, it's the solenoid for the dump valve on the proportional valve body. There's a cross member behind the engine, on the underside of that cross member are about three silver 12 volt solenoids. One for the dump valve, one for the horn, and the other for aux power. Might be four of them down there. Horrible spot. Take a good jumper wire/test lead and test each solenoid by connecting the large terminals of each solenoid together. One will blow the horn, etc. One should make your drive/lift/swing function. Common stuff, available at pretty much any auto parts store
OFF Once again you saved the day!! Put a jumper on the solenoid, and that was the problem! I will pick up another solenoid at the parts store. Looks like the standard 12 volt solenoid. I want to thank you again!
Good to know it worked out.
Just acquired a '79 JLG 40F, s/n 751138 everything seems to work. The kingpins or bushings are toast, I wonder if replacements are available? Steer tires are junk, new ones are on the way. There are over 90 trees on the ranch, a couple dead ones. I quit climbing 15 years ago.
Here's the new to me JLG 40F.
I wonder what switch is missing in the pic?
Welcome! the mercury switch seems to be hanging there. It should mount on the side of the rear boom cover. They break real easy. Nice looking machine for it's age. Hopefully all Racine valves. I'd be surprised if those king pins and bushings are still available. Know any machinists?
I was wrong. Do a Google search for JLG #3420308 King Pin and #0960301 bushing, I see several places offering them for sale. The pin is a little rich at $240, but the bushings are only $12 something each. If you need a set of 40F manuals, message me with an email address I can send them to.
Thanks for the reply. That's the butt connector where a switch used to be. What's the mercury switch for, too much boom angle or lean? Probably takes four bushings? I really need manuals, not sure where to click to message?
The mercury switch senses the boom angle, or at least it did in 1979. These days it's all done with micro-switches. The purpose was to cut out high engine RPM and high drive when ever the boom was above horizontal. Safety device. Yes, 4 bushings.
Should I replace the switch, are they available?
I don't think they are available anymore. Society doesn't like liquid mercury used these days in anything. Pretty toxic stuff I guess. Not that a 40F is a fast machine, but you wouldn't want to be traveling 40ft up in the air in high drive & high engine. That's playing with fire. Let your fear guide you, remember to shut down the faster functions when up in the air. Being a lineman though, you probably have no fear. They were over-designed however. I remember them telling us you could blow a wheel off with dynamite, while fully extended, and they wouldn't tip.
I have fear, that's how I stayed safe for over forty years. I was thinking if I have a senior moment and forget to throttle down I might have a wild ride. Over design is a good thing, we count on it. Are Racine valves easily identified? New steer tires just arrived. Thanks for all the help.
Here's what a 40F with Racine proportional valves looks like, marked as circle #1 in the picture. this is Bertea valves. Note the big knobs. I have very little experience on 40F's with Bertea valves. Because they crapped out in the cold, JLG didn't ship Bertea machines to Canada. I only saw one or two Bertea machines, (maybe the same machine twice) so I never learned how they operate well enough to diagnose & repair over the internet.
Uh oh, I have Bertea. Probably can't get the joystick rubber bellows any more have you heard of any substitutes? I lived in Anchorage for 25 years, drove through Canada a number of times, eh. My son is in Fairbanks, he's moving down here next year but is keeping a cabin up there.
MSC Industrial Supply in AZ (928) 775-4918 has the JLG (Bertea) joysticks and parts for the joysticks; p/n B1 knob covers and p/n B6 boots are in stock and plentiful; not cheap but not crazy! They have other control parts too. I may have found a non-mercury replacement for the mercury switch. I haven't decided whether to order and try it yet. I'll let you know.
I have a 40FR, Serial# 744748. How can I determine what year this machine is ? Thanks J.
I have owned it for 25 years or more, used to by parts from ASAP in Pa. but that’s no longer an option. I would just call and they would send what ever I needed so I never needed a parts book. Never used the machine for hire, just around our personal property and could absolutely Not live without it, so convenient and safe to get where you need to go, (up high).
My '79 40F is s/n 751138 ... so it's earlier than '79?
I've been told that the first two digits of a JLG serial number are not the year of manufacture. There is really no way to tell, other than to contact a friendly JLG dealer and get him to run your serial number. Even the older machines seem to remain in their system.
Does anyone still have the manuals for the 40f?
Popping in to say how glad I am to see this forum is still alive... I'm the proud owner of a brand New-to-me JLG 40f from 1979..... Has the Bertea valves on it, needs new hoses going up to basket tilt and needs a complete overhaul on the wiring . Hopefully I can get it it brought back to life again, as things are definitely not running quite right. I've only made it through 11 pages of the 80 so far, so I'm not going to ask any questions until I finish reading through everything, so much information to digest! One thing for sure I'll need is the wiring schematics, and it seems like OFF is the one that holds these magical documents in their possession. I hope it wouldn't be too much trouble to ask for those
I have a new to me 1977 40f and it keeps blowing the seal on the turntable gear. I know it’s blowing fluid out of the drive motor but cannot locate the problem. There are two hoses that come from the pump, two that go to the tank, and two that go to a pipe looking thing up top. I don’t know where to start. I do not know what the purpose is for the pipe looking thing but it doesn’t seem to have fluid in it. If it’s supposed to then I may have a restriction in the lines. If not is there a pressure relief valve somewhere that I need to replace? Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I can’t figure it out soon I think I can take out the fill plug on the gear drive and put in a nipple. From there I can run a hose to the top of the tank and let it recirculate the fluid. It runs and operates fine it is just making a mess
Do you have any pictures? I'm not experienced with this problem on this machine, but I have seen instances where hydraulic components blow their internal seals and start making a mess through a weep hole. Usually the weep hole is there to prevent pressure build up from causing further damage
I don’t have any pictures at the moment but the hydraulic motor that sits on top of the turn table gear is blowing fluid past the shaft seal. It is bolted to the top of the turn gear so it fills it with hydraulic fluid until it pushes the lower seal out. I replaced the shaft seal on the motor but it still blows fluid out. The seal is only rated for low pressure so it is definitely Over pressuring the seal.
From what I've learned from reading through this entire thread, I believe that the rotate motor is the same as the drive motors, and that some of them came without drain back to tank line. This would cause them to blow a seal after they started to wear down a bit. One solution was to add a drain back to tank on it, but some people have found that on their drive motors there isn't a threaded hole to add a line to relieve the pressure so it would take some strategic know-how to figure out where/if you could add one.... Somebody more knowledgeable than I will have to chime in though, I am a novice when it comes to this.
Hey all. Just joined. Ive read through the first 12 pages so far and have learned a bit. Still getting a grasp on the valve function and which are which. Im helping work on, what I'm pretty sure is a 40G. The owner says that he thinks it was pieced from two machines. Ive borrowed it for some work on my roof and it has symptoms that show up after several hours of use. it does pretty good until certain functions stop working from the basket. Specifically lower and rotate L&R. Raise still works. Which is an issue when you can raise, but not lower, LOL . Two things in common when the problems arise. We been running for 4-5 hrs and Ive used the 110v power to run a skil saw for 15-45 min. I was in the basket when these happen. My helper is able to use the toggle switches on the ground to lower.
If I could get manuals and diagrams for the G model. That would be great. Thanks
Also, we had an extra pedestal so took two PQ joysticks and tried swapping those, they seemed to make no difference. These symptoms happened twice. About a day after the first time, things were acting normal again. The right rotate has been slower from the beginning and reverse drive has less power than forward
Good morning All. Need help finding a manual for my JLG 40-45. Not having much luck. I have seen a few posts ,in this thread about 40-45s so hoping to find a Manual Id be willing to pay for one. I would like to rebuild this Machine! Thx Ed
More Picsd
More Pics
Push button switch at the engine needs replacement. Oh well. But, the reasons for todays post...The rotating on/off switch at the basket. I opened the control box to tighten the switch so it will not move while trying to use it and noticed wires hanging loose. Am i correct...there are 5 places to connect wires, but the switch uses only 3 of them?
Always with these machines, first thing you check is the available battery voltage in the basket control panel. When/if it drops below 11 volts, all sorts of bad things start to happen. Everything shuts down at about 9 volts. Any yellow wire should have power with your foot on the pedal.
40F manuals are yours for the asking. All I need is an email address to send them to. I've sent out probably a hundred of them already. JLG's lawyers haven't contacted me yet, so I'll continue to send them out!
I replaced a switch. Engine is spinning over using the ground controls, but not starting. I want to check parts in the distributor. The rotor button is stuck. Any suggestions of removing it without damaging it? I expect all the parts inside the distributor need a good cleaning/sanding.
try two flat bladed screw drivers, prying on the base of the rotor, as close as possible to the distributor shaft.
A good way to check the operation of your distributor points without taking anything apart, is to put a voltmeter on the negative side of the coil and ground. As the engine cranks over, you should see a rising/falling voltage reading 0 - 6 - 0 - 6 - 0 - 6 approx. If you don't, the points are bad.
The engine will run for a few seconds when i squirt fuel into the carb..I poured 5 gallons into the tank. Looks like a new fuel pump is in my future.
Hello, just introducing myself. Gonna read through these 80 pages first but I have 1980 JLG 40FR #762429 with some joystick issues, owned it about 5 years had no issues really till now
Welcome! If you need a set of 40F manuals, just message me with an email address I can send them to.
ok that would be great thank you, im mainly looking to see where I can get a replacement side/side joystick. no part numbers on it is the problem
Done like dinner
thanks, just like that im looking for JLG 1600040 PQ Controller...so far seem hard to find or even a cross reference part number
A controller that number comes up in https://www.tmsequip.com . You have Bertea proportional valves?
I saw that as well on the tms site. I was just shocked on the $430 price tag. I believe i have the Bertea valves from this forum since I have the manual lowering valves on the front of the machine
This is my machine
Yup, PQ controllers alright. Nice looking machine. But all have the manual decent valves on the front of the chassis. Bertea has a set of manual knobs right on the valve body. The others do not. Racine valves are far more common, specially with PQ controllers. On the side of engine where the oil filter is, look to your left and down below the frame rail. There is a large, 3 section valve body down there. In the parts manual, section 2, page 2-57, is a picture of the two brands of valve bodies. #27 is Racine, #32 is Bertea. Use that picture to determine which valves you have.
Thank you I will check that out soon as I get done work, what has me thinking it’s this joystick is the fact the swing switch still works at ground level, just not in the basket. It was interment for a few months
Joystick
check that micro switch. I believe it turns power to the controller card on when the handle is moved off center.
So today found out I have the Racine valves which puts me at getting PQ controller found a part number through the PDF you sent me. 1600036 seem to range from 300-600 bucks..funny thing I plugged the bad controller in today just to do some more testing and when the controller is plugged in, nothing on the basket works. Only the horn, no deadman either. Unplugged the controller and everything works so leads me to believe I need to order a new one from somewhere
Considering trying to deal with napa concerning wisconsin engine parts. What machine category and manufacture date am i best to use on their site?
My running issue is the fuel pump. I purchased a couple of 12v pumps. The lift runs again. However, one of the 12v pumps quit on the first day. I am already using the other. They look identical. What pump, and source is recommended? I want it to be dependable, 12v or mechanical, either is ok.
Well on that thing you don't need a fuel pump made for a race car. Too much pressure will cause flooding. I've used NAPA products professionally for over 40 years. I trust them. This would be my choice for a JLG 40F, In my NAPA Canada system, it is FPN B0141E, hopefully that number translates to NAPA USA.
Thanks OFF. I presume it is self regulating in the 1 to 4 psi range.
Hello, everyone. I found this forum when I was sent pictures of a free manlift that I thought was a 40F when I tried to match it up to internet pictures. Now that I have it, it turns out to be a 42C. It has been sitting for some time and has all the normal issues that you guys are probably used to. It has a 3cyl Duetz air cooled diesel. Ive have that in running condition now. I brought the engine up to governor speed and it started dumping hyd fluid from the solenoid valves on the left side of the machine (same side as the injection pump and ground control switches). I found two bolts missing that hold the lower half of the valve assembly to the upper half. The bolts are allen head, maybe #10?, that are installed vertically. I found one of the bolts on the ground under the machine broken off and the other had just a broken piece in it but no sign of the bolt. I hope this isn't too much background.... I removed the valve and disassembled it. Some of the O-rings are formed in the shape of a teardrop (either by design or age). I guess what I'm asking for is the same as everyone, please: any insight to my immediate problem, how to source parts (I can't find a brand on the hydraulic valve to source seals), electrical diagrams, manuals, etc. You guys know the drill.... I own an auto repair business and have the skill set for testing and repairing a machine like this but I fell from a ladder a few years ago trimming trees (I didn't have a manlift- LOL) and am now paralyzed so access to some of the stuff to work on it sometimes requires a helper so if you tell me to test something I might not be able to get it done right away . I don't have very good pictures at this point but can certainly take others if needed. I'm not actually even sure if my efforts to attach pictures worked.... so we'll see. Thank you, Jeff
Welcome! Those are Racine valves. If you'd like to message me an email address, I'll send you the Racine valve manual. I see someone has added some relays there beside the valve bank. Must have been a voltage drop problem or something needed a bit of a booster. I can also send you a set of 40F manuals. They might help some, even though your 42C looks more like the physical size of a 60F. The diesel engine is a huge bonus btw.
Thank you for the fast reply. That's wonderful. Since all of the wiring has been man-handled at some point, I really have no idea what is original and what isn't. I hope it's ok to toss out my email here. I would really appreciate any info you have. I've found approximately zero info on this machine on the web. Are you saying this machine looks bigger than a 40F? If so, that would explain the protesting coming from my equipment trailer...... When I figured it for a 40F I assumed it to weigh around 14,500....
Got your email address, it would be a good idea to edit your post and remove your address, just in case.
If you look back in this thread to pictures of 40F's, I think you will see they have a smaller base or platform. Your 42C looks like it was built on a 60 size base. Somewhere in here is a discussion about the 42C. Check out posts #1395 & 1396 way back on page 70. We had one of the JLG factory guys drop by once and we asked him all sorts of questions.
Thanks a ton for all of the info. I'll admit while I read many of the pages in this thread, I did not read those pages. I'll do that now. Thanks again
I just purchased a 40F (serial number 728396) and not sure what year it is. Everything works on it but want to get up to speed on it, preform all maintenance (so I know when it was all done), and fix her up cosmetically. She has set outside this barn for the last 2+ years….not sure before that ( I believe I am the 3rd owner). I did have to use a shot of starter fluid to get it started but once started she seemed to run pretty good. It was last inspected in August 2017 and no issues were found. I did find a hose that has a gouge in it going up the boom but not leaking. I am so glad I found this thread as it has a wealth of info! Hopefully I can get a copy of all the associated manuals and diagrams. I have only read 10 or so pages of this thread so far and look forward to another 70+ pages!
One other observation when testing it out before purchasing, It is very jumpy when going in reverse and trying to steer it at the same time. I assume it has to do with the joy stick control on the basket but haven’t had time to look into it yet. First up will be changing oil and adding fresh fuel to the fuel tank. Then lubricating all the points outlined in the service manual.
Hello, I just aquired this lift which I believe is a 40f. I would like to find manuals. for it. When I got it all the valves were sticking, I have them all free now except 2 which are still sticking half the time. There seems to be some water in the hydraulic fluid. As soon as I get all the leaks fixed, I am going to change the fluid. Mike
Good morning all. Still working on resurecting my 42C that was sitting in a field for years. My current problem: The rotating function is not working properly. I worked for most of one day then is started slipping. Meaning that it is not very responsive when you attempt to rotate and does not stay locked in position when you stop rotating. I removed the hydraulic motor nad sent it to the hydraulic shop. They said the brake did need work but that the motor seemed to work fine on their test bench. I reinstalled it after the brake repair and it works exactly the same. Working on it this weekend, I noticed smoke would come from the hydraulic motor when I operated it; the sort of thing you might expect to see from belts slipping. I'm doubtful there are belts involved though. I'm now suspecting a problem in the coupler that the motor mounts to but I do not know anything about the inner workings of that part. I have to get a friend over to help with this since I can't reach that from the wheelchair and I was hoping someone might be able to give we some ideas what to be looking for as we take it apart. Thank you.
Hi, normally I get a notification when anyone posts in this thread, not sure what happened this time. Your "new" machine looks good. I see you have Cutler/Hamer controllers which means it will be a very dependable unit. The parts to repair those controllers are quite common so should be easy to find the "blocks".
Hi Mike, just message me an email address and I'll send you those manuals right away. Sorry about the delay, I didn't get notifications and I wasn't checking regularly either.
Off, I appreciate your help. I just sent you a message. Update on the lift, I rebuilt the cylinder on the back of the boom that keeps the platform level as the boom moves up and down. Wow, is my oil contaminated with water and sludge! Next up is to fix the leaking wheel hubs, and then flush the hydraulic system.
Does anybody know how much oil the hydraulic system takes on these?
I can't find capacities listed in the manual either..... I remember it being about a 45 gallon drum, maybe a little less.
Does anyone know what a good replacement starter relay would be for the 40F? I am having intermittent starting issues. I have a new battery and am in process of replacing some very old / corroded battery cables and want to replace the starter relay while I am at it. I couldn't find a part number in the manuals....it just references the starter relay.
I just read it in the service manual that it has a 40 gallon tank for hydraulic.
Is the starter relay black or silver? Does it have 2 small terminals, or only 1? black with 3 terminals (only one small terminal) NAPA UNI-ST82 black with 4 terminals (two small terminals) NAPA UNI-ST81 Silver with 4 terminals NAPA UNI-ST85
It is the black one with 4 terminals. Thanks @OFF !
@OFF , I forgot to thank you for the info....it is working again! Also, is there a place to look up the serial number to verify the year it was made?
You're very welcome, I'm always glad to help. The only way I know of to date an old JLG serial number is to contact JLG or have a friendly JLG dealer contact them for you. All my old contacts are dead by now I'm sure, and we went Genie in about 1990, so I haven't made any new JLG contacts.
I am new to this and not really much of a computer guy, but I bought a 40’ jlg lift a year or so ago. It’s a 1980 and now none of the functions are working at all. The local dealer only could tell me about this forum and couldn’t find what he needed for a wiring schematic. A lot of the wires and fuses are burnt up in the box behind the hr meter. Do I have scrap metal now or is there anything out there?
Hello JWells. I can email you JLG 40F manuals and wiring diagrams as well as try and answer any questions you may have. I just need an email address to send the manuals to. Best way to do that is to click on my name, and in the little box that comes up, choose "start a conversation". That will send me a private message where you can put your email address without the whole world seeing it.
On units made before 1980, the first two digits on the serial number seems to me to be the year. People have told me that's wrong, but I don't think so. I worked on a lot of JLG's made in the 70's and the age seemed to fit.
Ok thank you! Also is it possible to buy original parts for a machine this old, such as that hr meter box I mentioned? Or do I look for an old dinosaur burial ground to try and get those parts? The local dealer can’t seem to have any luck, and the bigger dealers towards the bigger cities don’t want to help because it’s over 20 yrs old.
I have a new problem with my 40f. My basket level cylinder was leaking so I rebuilt it and now it will not go in and out. I am getting fluid to it but it will only go out and not back in. Is there a specific way to install it to get the air out?
Start by looking up the JLG part number of what you need in the parts manual. Google that part number, you might get lucky. Many places sell obsolete parts and "jobber" parts. Also give that part number to your JLG dealer so he can run it. Dealers can't look up a part that old, but they can still run the number in the JLG system. Those two methods are all you have to work with. That main control box is going to be a tough find. However, I did have a NOS 40F basket control box in my dead stock, (I gave it to the person who started this thread) so it's not impossible. Good luck
Have a look in the service manual for a bleeding procedure for the basket leveling cylinder. Make sure your lock valve is installed correctly and your hoses are on right. Have you tried tilting the basket from the ground controls? If you get it to move, run it fully extended to fully retracted a couple times and all air should be gone.
Just popped hydraulic hose tonight on the basket up and down. Any tricks in changing this line? Anything to watch out for? Looks like a long hose!
It is a long hose alright. What was the reason for the failure? Wear spot? How are the other hoses in the boom looking? not a nice job for sure. The method is to couple a new hose to one end of the old hose, and pull the new hose in while pulling the old hose out. Problem is that those hoses are often tangled and wrapped up around each other, and not as easy as it sounds. Somewhere in the archives I have hose lengths, I'll see what I can find.
According to the JLG factory 40F build sheets.......you need 550 inches of 1/4" hydraulic hose (#4 hose) for the basket tilt function. The fittings are male 1/4" NPT.
@OFF , if you find the info on all the hose lengths, I could probably use them as I have several that are showing a lot of wear or are starting to crack.
So when driving the lift, the machine comes to an abrupt stop as soon as you return the joystick to center. Is this normal on this machine or should it be a more gentle deceleration? If it should be more gentle, what would I start looking for as the probable issue?
On the "F" series JLG's there is no "ramp" feature to the controllers. If you're driving and you take your foot of the foot switch or let go of the controller, the brakes are on and the wheels are locked up at that moment. Sudden, abrupt, a little rude. The feathering or the ramp feature on controllers did start being used until the "H" series.
You want lengths for all 4 boom hoses? It won't be today, but I'll get them listed in here. There are only 4 hoses in the boom, right? Basket tilt and basket swivel?
Yes, there are 4 hoses. I know that two are for basket tilt and figured the other two were for the telescope function.
Ok, I had someone check it out and they thought maybe there was an accumulator or something that might be bad and causing the brakes to suddenly lock vs a ramp down / smooth deceleration.
I am wanting to fix the leaking drive motors. Does any one have a part number for the seals? Went to one hydraulic shop and they couldn't/wouldn't help me. Trying another shop but if anyone has those numbers that would be a huge help. Thanks
Seal kit for drive motors: JLG PART # 7000311 - SEAL KIT,
I just got a 40 FR, I’m commenting so I can find this thread again, tremendous info in here!!’
Welcome to the Forum.
What a mine of information on here so thankyou to all who have posted in the past. Ive just started looking after one so may have some questions (hopefully not stupid ones) but its not in the best condition but somewhat re-purposed Very much looking forward though. jlg5
Welcome to the Forum! I look forward to helping with any problems you may have.
Thank you kind sir and my immediate question if i may is were they all made with diesel engines and any idea of manufacturer (cant find anything on it)? Many thanks
To my knowledge, the 40F only came with one engine. It was a Wisconsin VH4D, and air cooled, V-4, 30HP gasoline engine. I'm sure we'd all be very interested in what diesel engine you have in your 40F. Must be air cooled, right? In later models, JLG commonly used the Deutz F3L912 or F3L1011 or F2L511.
It is indeed sir cooled sir and not something I have seen before. thanks for the tips on the Deutz engines and I’ll have a look
A picture might be worth a thousand words in this case.
I suspect it will sir and will do so when next up there which will be tomorrow evening. Big job I’m guessing is the retract chain has snapped (at least I gather that is what it is for and does look a bit challenging). very much appreciate your interest and help and advice though sir that is for sure.
I'd be happy to email you a set of manuals for your 40F in PDF format. Just message me with an email address.
You are indeed the oracle kind sir and i will take you up on your most generous offer. You are also correct regarding the engine that is indeed a Deutz (i found this baked on oil covered plate whilst having a route round): [url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/150029270@N05/BLy69U] [url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/150029270@N05/cC7p9w] Next on the agenda is this there chain? [url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/150029270@N05/0x8c49] [/url][/url][/url]
The first diesel JLG 40F I have ever seen! Thank you for the picture. Very nice engine to have in there.
Thankyou sir, It can be a bit of a bugger to start on a cold morning but is indeed a bonny wee thing. That said its better with the leak repaired on one of the delivery valves and appears quite robust (of which in the hands of our people needs to be lol).
Hi everyone just came across this forum while searching for manuals for my 40f. First I want to say thanks to everyone sharing their time and knowledge on this forum. You are a blessing. I think I have a loose connection somewhere as it’s intermittent. When I raise the boom up it hardly moves but if I blip some of the switches (like speed) it starts working for a few times. Same goes for forward and reverse. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I also have had a problem with the drive motors ever since I owned it. It will drive forward in high and low with ease but reverse always has less moving power and slower in low while high is pretty much useless bogging the engine down and barely moving at all.
BTW from reading earlier post I believe I have the Racine valves
Welcome for the heavy Equipment Forum. I would start with your machine by checking the voltage available in the basket. Any of the yellow wires in the basket control box will be the voltage supplied to all the controllers and toggles. You'll be lucky to have 12 volts way up there (long run of cable), but if it drops to less than 11 volts, things start acting up. The foot switch is a trouble spot for voltage drops, but it could be any of toggles in there dragging it down. If you'd like a 40F manual set, just send me a PM with your email and I'll send you the files right away.
That one I would start by centering the drive valve on the proportional valve bank. I've detailed the procedure here in this thread a time or two.
Centering On the proportional valve bank, on the bottom side, you will find three 1/2" lock nuts around Allen head screws. The drive is the section with the biggest hoses. Loosen the lock nut on the drive section With the engine running on ground control, turn the screw in until the tone of the hydraulics changes, signaling the start of that function. Turn the screw in the other direction until the tone of the hydraulics changes again, counting the number of turns of the screw from one to the other. Turn the screw to the half way point between the two, and lock it down. A good safety measure would be to jack the drive wheels off the ground during this btw. This would allow you to see the movement begin rather than sense it begin. Also keep you from getting run over should things go wrong. Centering lift & swing would not have the same potential for personal injury of course.
Thanks OFF , I’ll see if I can figure out how to send you a pm . You nailed it, I checked and only have 10.2 volts on the yellow wires. I’ve been tracing wires all day and looks like the power is 10.2 coming from the back. The battery is coming in at 14.1 volts with engine running. I’ll keep tracing.
Thanks again the manuals came through and are helping already. So I have it traced back to the back panel. The wire that heats up the ignition coil on + side and also goes to distributor is causing the voltage drop. Disconnected the distributor wire and voltage is same as battery. It has the electronic ignition in it and the module must be the problem. If I disconnect the coil wire from panel and jump it straight to battery I have 12.3 volts on the yellow wires when pedal engaged and everything works fine. I’m assuming my module is starting to short out in the distributor.
If you only have 10.2 volts with the ignition switch off or on, your problem is down on the ground some place. The horn wire in the basket has a dedicated power source you can "borrow" from if you need to for testing. Nice big 10ga wire
Thanks for the detailed procedure on how to center the valve for drive motors. Definitely going to try that after I get my voltage problem figured out.
I haven't posted in a while because we haven't had any problems we couldn't handle. But now our 40F has lost the pulley from the accessory drive below the distributor, that drives the alternator, and it's gone. Can anyone give me the dimensions so I can get another one? It's the Wisconsin VG4D engine. Thanks.
Did everyone go home? I really need some info on that pulley, we're dead in the water without it. Thanks.
Mine measures 3 1/2” outside dia
Also a 3/8” belt width
I gave it my best shot back in July, but I couldn't find any mention of that pulley anywhere, JLG or Wisconsin. So I left it up to someone who still had a 40F to come to your rescue. Thank you TJK
Thank you all, I really appreciate the help!
Hello all. I am new to this forum and posted the following in a new thread. However, I probably should have posted here. I assume the 40F and 50F are pretty close to the same as far as the mechanics and electrics. I have a very used but well running JLG 50F with a Wisconsin gas motor that does not want to drive well. All boom movements up and down, etc work great just moving it requires me to tow it with my backhoe. The first problem is that it will not move up even the slightest incline. I know the high idle does not work or the drive switch. I even revved the throttle by hand while I had someone else in the bucket driving and did not make a difference so I suspect it is the valve that allows more pressure to the drive motors. I tried to download some schematics but they were too fuzzy to read. I bought a manual but who knows when it will actually get here. I imagine that once I have the proper diagrams, I can troubleshoot the electrical issues. The second issue is that one wheel will spin if not on completely flat ground. I have been told I can adjust some valves to get "posi-traction" to work but have no idea of what those adjustments should be. If anyone has any ideas or directions for these adjustments it would be greatly appreciated. I apologize if these issues have already been posted, I tries to search through this thread but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. Thanks in advance, Scott
My 40f will spin too if not flat on ground. I swing the engine-counterweight side over drive wheels with boom in and it’s enough to keep drive wheels flat on ground.
Drive wheels spinning on unlevel ground is very common with these. There are "overcenter", or "counterbalance" valves in the drive wheel circuit(s), but these are to be pressure adjusted adjusted equally. If maladjusted, they will give you fits. IMO, the first thing to do in any t/s is to ensure full hydraulic pressure is being developed in the system, and then isolating into non operational sections to "drill down" into problematic sections.
Yes, the 50F is a little larger version with a larger Wisconsin engine, but they share most systems with the 40F. I agree that probably the first thing to do is getting some hydraulic pressure readings and find out what's up. Getting your high engine/high drive working again would be a bonus too. These were never "off-road" machines btw. I can offer you a JLG 40F manual set, just message me with an email address, and I'll send it right out.
Thanks, once I get the electrics working, I will check pressures. Is there a decent pressure gauge you could recommend? And I would assume there are test ports or something like that to check pressures?
I did some quick voltage checks after bypassing the swing joystick with a toggle switch. (Going right was intermittent, toggle fixed that) I will try to rebuild the joystick at a later time. In any case there is only about 9.5 volts at the basket control. Obviously With over 100 ft of wire there will be a voltage drop. So my question, is in understanding the way the joysticks control the valves. Seems like it is just a potentiometer that will increase the voltage the further you push from center. So in regards to my drive problems, will this big of a voltage drop cause the valve not to open all the way, thus not sending enough power to the drive motors? Am I thinking about this the right way or am I missing something? Thanks.
I have a question about the drive valves/solenoids if anyone knows. The machine stopped driving in one direction and I found a broken wire on the drive valve solenoid. To splice it, I had to remove the solenoid because the break was right next to the body. Fixed it replaced it and it worked but then it would not drive the other direction, this time broken ground wire. (I must have broken it when replacing the solenoid). Fixed it and not drive does not work at all. Solenoids are getting power. And when I push the pin in it will not work either. When I push the pin in on the swing and lift, those work. So is there something I could have screwed up when putting the solenoids back on? Something to block the hydraulic flow?
well, two things commonly happen when taking those valves apart. 1 - a small part you didn't notice gets flushed out with the oil flow 2 - you get a piece of dirt/grit in there and it stops things from moving freely. do you know what brand of controllers (joysticks) your machine has?
They are PQ controllers
Thanks for the Racine Manual. When I took the solenoid off, I may have lost the poppet. There is a rubber piece at the end of the plunger. Would that encase the poppet or is the poppet in between that and the valve? If so, I may have lost it. I suppose I should have taken the whole valve and repaired it on the bench. Where might I get parts for it?
I am working on a JLG 40 F, it has a Parker 3 spool valve. I am in need of a couple Electric actuators for this valve or parts to repair them. Parker part number on the actuators is 234912-23A Any help wood be much appreciated!!
Those are Bertea valves. The JLG P/N for the pilot section is 7001307. Unfortunately NLA from JLG for the past 10 years. What is going on with them? Do you have enough pilot flow? Also Bertea valves do not function with cold oil unless the oil is thinned. If you are stuck maybe Hindley still has someone that knows how to repair them.
I have one that has a broken paddle inside and will not function. The second one only will work in one direction!
I believe my pilot flow is ok, because one functions as normal and other will work I one direction
Hello! I have been reading thru this thread for a few days now. Recently my brother and I purchased a 40F that has been sitting for 20+ years. We have repaired the tires and got it hauled home. Now we are beginning to work on getting it running again. It has RACINE valves and the majority of the wiring looks like a birds nest......any way OFF can work with me to get some schematics sent to me?
Welcome! I'm still around, all I need is an email address to send you documents.
Schematic is help full, but not necessary! 40F is straight forward toggle switches switching power to solenoid valves. Once you dive into it it’s pretty easy. I have a completely gone through, fully functional JLG 40F that I would sell to anyone interested. Contact me for details if interested! Thanks Dan
What you describe is the version with all solenoid valves and Cutler/Hammer controllers. By far the simplest and most trouble free 40F they made. A good machine for someone. I really enjoyed working on them all. It wasn't like today. Now when you walk up to a Z45 or Z60, you know it's an exact copy of every other Z45/Z60 you've ever worked on. The 40F came with at least 5 different controller makes and layouts, and 4 or 5 different control valve setups. 3 different engines. You didn't know what you were facing till you opened the covers.
Hi everyone, new to the forum and to these machines, I asked the shop owner at the end of my road if i could help him clean up the outside. He had a lot of metal and machines he gave me these two. idk the years but ones a jlg 40f thats how i found yall. the other i think is a WHITE my80b. i think if anyone has better info please let me know. Thanks in advanced
second post for the looks
3rd for the membership
Or is it four to change status
On my 40f. First looks I had to clean the inside of the starter. And got her to turn over. Im losing volts on the coil when starting (12v to 9v). Alternator doesn’t seem to be working, I’ve found wire rusted off. Idk what the small wire does that comes off and goes to the coil. But I’m not getting spark at all. I love the old stuff because it’s simple and build different but looking at prices of the alternator I might as well sell parts to buy parts. Dang. Anyone know of a cheap alternative for an alternator that does the same thing? I would like to do a 110 plug at the basket just in case we need it.
Can someone please send me the manuals, diagrams, and anything else helpful on the 40f I messaged OFF and Wille a few days ago.
I got you. Normally the system sends out notifications when someone needs something. It didn't this time. Good thing I checked.
40F....One of the (very old and decayed) hoses for the bucket busted...so I need new hoses. What are the specs that need to be met? The information I need to provide...whether ordered online or having them made locally? I prefer to have the hoses before I finish disassembling.
which hoses are you changing out? All the hose in the boom? I can help with specs.
Hi OFF. I think there are only two hoses going to basket (sorry, I said bucket earlier). These only control the tilt of the basket.
ok, there are 4 hoses in most 40F booms. That is - machines with basket rotate. Not all machines have basket rotate. I'm thinking it's the basket level hoses you want, not the basket rotate. Basket level hoses are both #6 (3/8), two wire braid, with #6 (3/8)male NPT ends. One hose is 468 inches long, the other is 456 inches long. Basket rotate hoses are #4 (1/4") two wire braid, with #4 (1/4") male NTP ends. Both are 550" long.
Schematic.
Basket level are the hoses i need. My basket does not rotate (wish it did). Surprised they are NPT. The hydraulics must be lower pressure than I think. *Basket level hoses are both #6 (3/8), two wire braid, with #6 (3/8)male NPT ends. One hose is 468 inches long, the other is 456 inches long.* Thank you for the information.
Male NPT is quite common in older hydraulics. Double braid hoses are rated for 5000 (3/8) to 6000 (1/4) PSI so the fittings have to stand that much. JIC came later. Check your hose couplings/ends to make sure. Those hoses could have been replaced with something else by now. We're talking 42+ years since it was built.
What do you suggest coating the threads with to help seal the connections?
what I'm using these days is Permatex 80632 Thread Sealant with PTFE but any thread sealant will do the trick.
OFF , thank you so much for your support.
you're very welcome. Always glad to put my useless/outdated knowledge to work. Here's a picture of hydraulic connectors. Bottom one is the hose end, top is the connector it attaches to on your machine.
Hi All! I just bought a JLG40F. But it has some issues I’m hoping you might be able to help with. Starts great. Everything moves properly from the rear control panel but as soon as I switch to the basket control it stalls. Wiring in the basket doesn’t look great with a few broken wires and a few broken in the engine compartment. I saw someone had wiring diagrams. Any chance I can get a copy of those? Also can anyone send me a pic of the labels for all the basket controls? You guys rock! Thanks!
Welcome Dichotmist. Your manuals are on the way. What I suggest is first switching to basket control, and then checking the basket for power. Start at the ignition switch. at least 12 volts in, and with the switch on, you should see close to 12 volts out. Toggle switches are a common trouble spot because they are so exposed to the elements.
Hello all, I have a JLG 50FD that I have been fighting a few issues . I am looking for wiring diagrams and any other info anyone may have on this machine. My main issue is the house does not turn right now. I tracked it down to the pilot valve Bertea p/n 234912-348. Look like the outer coil ring broke. Any one know where to source these. Looks now to be a Parker part number 234912-23A . Looks to be expensive from what I have found. Any help would be great, Thanks!
Sloate, get on eBay and find a single valve with the pilot valve coil in it, search 234912-23A and a few will pop up. Anything from A to D will work as long as the 234812-23 is the same
Sorry typo on the number 234912-23A to D
I have looked before but just did again and I did find one on there that was priced more reasonable. I not trying to put a lot of money into this old unit. Thanks for the info! Does any one have a wiring diagram for this 50FD? If not one for a 40F should help, I'm sure they are wired similarly.
40F With Bertea valves
Thank you for those, will be very helpful and looks like the 50F is wired about the same.
I got the valve installed and all back working now! Does any one have a idea of the weight of this 50fd? I am guessing 15-18K...
Hello all, I recently bought a 1980 30f. Pretty good condition, runs great. The ground controls work well, but I had intermittent basket control, and low basket power. Replaced the foot switch (full of water and corrosion), now I lost all basket control, except for starting the engine. I can't find wiring diagrams without spending $$. Can anyone help?
There are two micro switches inside the foot pedal. One is for the start circuit, the other one turns on the hydraulic power to everything. On ground control, the hydraulics are live all the time. But on basket, the controls only work when your foot is on the foot switch. My guess would be that the micro switch controlling your controls/hydraulics is out of adjustment or just plain bad.
the cord (wiring) running from the basket to the foot switch would also give trouble.
The micro switch is new, but I did find corrosion between the the cord and the petal. Replaced the cord, and all is well. Thank you.
I have a 40F Thats been sitting for a year. I parked it when I blew a hose going to the tilt basket. Just changed that hose. The old girl fired right up. Everything is working good Except the steering now! Had no problems with steering before it was parked. When you turn the switch for the wheels to move left or right, you will hear the motor start to bog down a little like normal. (I believe that tells me the pump is being activated) I took the hoses off at the steering cylinder and only would get a trickle of fluid through it, when I activated the switch. Anybody have any ideas what could be wrong? Thanks for any help!
well, the first thing I would do is determine whether or not the steer valve is receiving power from the steering toggle switch. If it is, the fact that the pump is tying, and neither direction works, makes me wonder if maybe that valve has a bad ground wire. Rain/wet is the enemy. A good way to check is put your test lead onto the same valve terminal as the ground wire and get a friend to activate the steer. If you suddenly show power at the ground terminal, your ground wire is not functioning. I take it the other functions on that same valve bank are still working. If nothing works on that valve bank, we need to go down another road.
Thanks for the quick response OFF. Yes all functions seem to be working except the steer cylinder. Best way to find the steer valve is just follow hydraulic hose back to it?
Look back to page 82 for post #1630. Pictures #2 and #3 show valves that could be steer valves. These are what you are looking for on your machine. The one you want will be the only valve in either of the Racine solenoid valve banks that has small hoses going to the hydraulic swivel unit. Another method is the process of elimination. Disconnect a wire from one valve at a time, and see what stops working.
Thank you OFF For your help. Will do this tomorrow!
and don't forget to mark each valve as you figure out what it does.
Since this seems to be "The Thread" for JLG lift questions... I have a 60FR from 1977 with the Ford Engine. It's been "fixed up" over the years and I am trying to get it workable. The main cylinder leaked so bad it would take 5 gallons to lift it. I pulled the boom off and rebuilt the cylinder but have a couple problems. 1. I don't see any manuals available for this particular model, just the 60H. 2. There are two electrically operated bypass valves, one for the Racine valves (Travel, Lift, swing) and another for the Vickers (Rotate, Level, Extend, Steering) valves. When I enable the Racine one, the engine bogs down. Since this is the only one that goes through the filter, I assume the filter is clogged but I cannot undo the filter even with a 4 foot extension on socket. This sound reasonable? Any hints on the filter? 3. Now that I have the lift cylinder repaired, when I go to lift the boom the engine just barely has enough power, if I switch hoses and run off the other valve set, it raises just fine. I think this is related to #2, but thought I would ask. 4. There is a pressure relief valve attached to the basket level, this makes no sense to me and I think someone just plumbed this up wrong. 5. I had to make a new link for the cable Track, if anyone needs one, let me know and I'll make one for you. I have it all drawn up on the CNC. PM me.
Skymoco, I believe that solenoid valve bank you have there is made by FPR. (Fluid Power Research). They were pretty trouble free for the most part. There is a high pressure filter inside a large metal canister, I assume that's what you refer to. I believe that was a JLG only part number. There were two sizes, a very large "early" and smaller "late" model. I almost think I would look into replacing the unit with a Genie part. Much more common and easily available. Certain functions did have pressure reliefs just to keep things from destroying themselves. Nice job on that cable tray plate. I remember taking whole cable trays apart, pin by pin to clean and lubricate. Fun stuff.
Off, thanks. I really enjoy working on this older stuff and making the parts I need. I assume that JLG would have this filter, here's a lousy picture, I'll get a better one once I get it cleaned off. I sprayed it with some dawn detergent and will wash it off in the am. I was hoping to get a filter at NAPA, but perhaps not.. Replace it with something like so: Filter
That's the older or large style high pressure filter. What's inside there is something that looks like this. This is actually the later & smaller version but they are much the same. That metal mesh is both inside and outside with a multi-fold fiberglass looking filter media between the layers. Made to withstand 6000 PSI pressure. You won't find anything like that at NAPA unfortunately.
I pulled mine off and it's pretty clean, I poured some fluid though it and I don't think that's my problem as it flows through about as fast as I can pour. I ordered one anyways as it doesn't hurt to replace it after all these years. Next I am thinking maybe the relief valve is stuck or something on this valve body. Even when all the valves are closed (no electricity to it) the engine bogs down when this gets fluid. Any idea where to start with it?
when on ground control, those valves are seeing full hydraulic flow/energy/pressure. On basket, the valves are only powered when you have a foot on the pedal and a control activated. Here's some schematics:
On that Racine valve bank, there will be what is called a "dump valve". It will be on one end or the other - or remotely mounted and hooked up with a large hose. This dump valve has a single electrical coil on it and a pressure relief valve and test port. Test & Make sure your relief isn't set way high.
It's a little complicated as mine was stripped down and just used as a crane to set trusses so the wiring was all removed and what I got was a pile of controls and wire. I am slowly rewiring it. I redid the engine wiring and that works great, even the automatic throttle. There are two dump valves, when I apply power to this one the engine bogs down and just about stalls, this is without power to any of the control valves. The other dump valve doesn't change the engine rpm at all. My understanding is that when I apply power to the dump valves, this should just barely change the rpm as there is only around 100 PSI back pressure through the control valves. This is the dump valve I am applying power to. I'll get a hydraulic tester and start checking pressures, I don't see a port on the valve, but there is one at the filter. Appreciate your help.
Hello everyone, I need a little help and this is the place for it. Backstory is that I’ve got this jlg for “free” (get it running then use it to fix the roof of this hoop barn and I get to take it home) I thought it was a 40f, after googling for hours every brand of man lift and guessing 70’s era based on the Wisconsin and how it’s built. I got a 40f manual on eBay, after perusing I guess this thing predates the 40f. I’m guessing based on user “OFF” that it’s a 40-45? All standard bang valves zero proportional anything, lower controls work which is a miracle, the Wisconsin burns oil but who cares. Here’s my problem, most I can figure out (been figuring things out since I was a little kid) I just need details. I’ll start with the biggest ones first. 1: Fly boom won’t extend. After getting the thing running I was able to drive it by walking back and forth holding an rc car battery pack and manually operating the “steer” and “drive” solenoids with alligator clips. After getting it under the hoop barn I’m trying to fix, I stung out and watched a mangled chunk of (#50?) machine chain slide out of a hole under the main boom. I think it’s a 40-45 because it has a single fly boom chain instead of the 40f’s double chain. I’ll dog off the fly boom to something heavy and sting in the main boom till I can get to the guts and replace the chain. I just need to know what size chain it is. Again I think it’s #50 2: I think it’s 1 wheel drive right now, dunno how that can happen without oil spewing everywhere. Btw my God hydraulic oil is expensive! The previous owner had passed and his wife is managing the extensive “junk” aka treasures collection and this is part of it. 3: controls are shot at boom tip. I can identify diodes up there, im guessing to mitigate any electrical weirdness after a coil Is de-energized but I can figure that out. It’s just switches on this thing there’s nothing fancy. 4: there’s two packs of three solenoid valves that I’ve identified what they do, but there’s another up above the rest, I’m guessing it the hi-drive? But it’s a two way valve so that makes me confused. I’m having to decipher based on my 40f manual what is going on with this thing. Oh and this talk about dump valves I have no idea I can’t find one on this thing but there is an extra solenoid on the crossmember, one for the emergency power pack and the other ???? 5: finally, the hose carrier (power track) on the back of the boom needs some love. I’ve disassembled it as best I can and have been straightening individual links on my anvil so that I can reassemble it in a working fashion. If anyone can provide me with some info on the cable track that would be great, as a couple links need to be replaced, and at $500 ish for half the length I need, I’d rather try to fix it. (Did I mention the lift was free?) whew I know thats a lot but thank your lucky stars you’re not the broke ass dipsh$;(t who’s trying to fix it haha
Welcome Boogered40F, There are some tips on telling the difference between a 40F, and an earlier 40-45 on about page 70 of this thread. There pre-1976 basically, if your manual decent valves (look like outdoor water tap handles) are mounting on the plate under the boom rest and connected with long rods, you have 40-45. 1) your boom won't telescope without the chain. It's broke. 2) best way is to jack the drive wheels off the ground and support with blocking or jack stands. You'll see what wheel moves and what doesn't. These were not off-road machines. 3) For controller identification on the oldies, see post #1210 on page 61 (of this thread). Also see post #1344 on page 68. This is most likely what you have. 4) best way to identify what each valve does is to pull one wire on one valve and see what doesn't work anymore. Those solenoids down on the crossmember behind the engine were typically for the dump valves, horn, electric choke if equipped, and aux. power. 5) look back in the posts, last page or so, member Skymoco made up some new plates. Post #1745
Thanks OFF! 1) Yeah I know the boom’s busted, even though the first boom does extend since it’s the one attached to the hydraulic cylinder. just needed the chain size if you knew it but i guess I can measure it to know for sure. I’ll have to make my own chain adjuster bolts anyway since they’re missing. After completely removing the fly boom and verifying the integrity of the chain that’s left behind. Kinda spooky thinking that only one chain is what keeps that fly boom from slamming back into the main boom while it’s in the air. 2) I’ll see about getting some pics of the “controller”. It’s going to need to be completely rebuilt. It’s beyond busted and if you switch to upper controls the boom starts to sting out by itself. 3) I’ve got the valves laid out, swing, sting and drive on the left side if you’re standing facing the counterweight. Basket tilt, boom, and steer on the right. It’s the valve above both packages that has me stumped, by itself and a two-way valve. I guess hi-drive but I’ll figure out a way to prove it.
I guess it's a spare valve then. How about basket rotate? Some machines had it, others had fixed baskets. Hi-drive was usually a single acting valve, not a double. With a machine as old as yours, anything is possible.
It doesn’t have basket rotate, I’ll try to incorporate some type of electric basket rotator eventually. The mast that the basket sits on has been messed with so much, there’s no longer a slot for the bottom tube of the basket to engage with. Someone welded it in place, then probably had to remove the basket so they cut that section of the basket out. There’s been some real low intelligence modifications to this thing. When I get back out there on Saturday, I’ll verify the fly boom chain link size, hopefully it’s a #50 because I found a gate chain tensioner kit of the same size that would work. I’ll have to build a couple wooden gantries to hold up that boom section while I remove the fly boom. As far as the hose carrier is concerned, I might just order a 1’ section of carrier from McMaster-carr and hopefully I can get those links to incorporate with the existing ones. It appears to be of similar design.
Time I get on the forum Have had a little chat with Off to get manuals . Thank you for them. Friend said what you doing today. That led to coming home with a 40F 2wheel drive deuetz diesel engine.Have looked by the basket on the boom but not able to find a SN. Looking at the pictures of a 40F leads me to believe we have a 40F. Has Racine valves .When we 1st started we had rotate and boom up not down cause of wires tore out of the little soleniods. The other valve steer and basket level both work correctly. telescopes out but will not retract. The drive lift rotate valve leaked so bad that I removed it and replaced Orings and broken bolts on the spool spring ends. Disassembeled and rewired the small soleniods. Now have lost pressure to that valve. Reading thru the forum a couple of times ( packed full of good information) I discovered I was going down the wrong trail thinking the two side by side dump valves were for each of the dump valves. After figuring out I was on the wrong hyd schematic. Thanks to the picture Off had of the dump valve on his desk I now realise we have the Racine integrel dump valve. Jumpered that solenoid direct from the battery still no pressure . can push in the pin on end of the solenoid that does nothing also. Taken the solenoid off and jumped. Plunger will move but can easily be pushed back. Solenoid reads 3.5 OHMs. Is that in the acceptable range? As a starting point I believe there is a manual for this valve, would be in your debt if could get one. also a part # for the solenoid if thats the path you would suggest. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.
Should also add that have checked and verified that ground is good and working. No clicking can be heard when applying battery power of 12+ volts.
Where did you find the serial number I can't seem to locate one on my 40 f
Does anyone know a supplier to get a replacement Racine drive solenoid? The wire has broken off at the body so there is no way to splice it.
check this out, it sounds like you need the same piece. It's a coil. Racine Info
Thanks! I found a supplier and have one on order.
Please I need these drawings aswell
What supplier
GCIRON out of Hollywood, FL. Part wasn't cheap with shipping, but it worked and was the only place I could find it.
What drawings are you looking for? Wiring Schematic? Racine or Bertea valves? type of controllers? do you have the 40F manuals yet?
The cylinder that lifts the main boom is leaking bad. Time for a rebuild. All hoses and top pin are removed. The bottom pin is not cooperating, got it to move about an inch and it stopped. Wow, so close and so far away. Is there something I am missing here?
Do know what I mean when I say the lift cylinder's lower pin is secured by something that looks like a main bearing cap on an engine block? It is. The nuts are under the chassis, 4 of them. have you undone those nuts? pounded the bolts up with a dead-blow hammer to loosen the caps?
I will look for those 4. The cotter pins at each end of the main pin easily removed. Thank you OFF.
Does anyone have a parts schematic for the racine proportional valve solenoid like I have in the picture for a 40F? Wondering if I'm missing any parts. Have a parts break down for a 40h that is different from what i have pictured . Put a manual valve on to test. Functions worked with another valve and able to verify that have good pressure . Pushing in the solenoid by pass pin does nothing. Have completely gone thru several times. Did find missing push pin (made one out of a drill bit) Was missing small spring and spring poppet installed backward by previous owner all in the same section. Took the solenoid to electric repair shop. they say solenoid is good. Took the valve to a hydraulic repair place where it sat for two months before they admitted to not having a clue how to test. This leaves me with more questions than Oak Island. The questions I do have are, 1. Are any parts missing in the picture of solenoid parts? 2. Which way does the pin circled in red go in, narrow side toward the valve or wide side? 3. Is there any places anyone knows of to have them check this valve out? 4. Anyone have a lead on a working used valve? 5. If anyone has replaced this valve with another brand would love to hear from you as to how you did it and what you did for controlling the valve.
The picture you put up is what I would call a Racine Dump Valve.
Here's the part numbers to go with the diagram you posted. I don't see a spring in yours - ref. #20 I don't see a ball - ref. #26 If that picture of the valve I posted is the same as the one you're working on, I have a new one.
This is a solenoid valve, but the parts are quite similar. Might help
Hello, I have a JLG 60g with Racine valves and PQ controllers. I am attaching two pictures of the one controller I have still functional and a new circuit board I received. The older board gives my 6 volt output off center. The new one appears to be a little different and does not give me 6v off center, it goes right to full voltage. Can anyone identify the possible model number of the older circuit board in hopes I can locate two of them? Thank you!
Here's what the card should look like.
What part number did you purchase? The newer boards for the "H" series are #7003737 and I believe they are a different voltage on the coils. Double check your wiring, make sure it's hooked up right.
I purchased part #7003706. I found my wiring from the control box on the basket to the machine had wires spliced and soldered and I just received my new roll of wire to rewire everything. I reached out to Aerial Specialists and they have found the right circuit board for the machine. I am going to rewire the basket controls and clean up the mess of butt connectors added in over the years. Thanks for sending me the picture of the right circuit board! I will update with what I find as I go.
This is the controller they sent as a direct replacement. They do not have a schematic of what wires are what? I am guessing red and black are power and ground but don’t want to mess up the other wires.
That looks more like a controller you would find in a 60H. I only saw two 40G's in my whole life, never did see a 60G, so I'm no expert on them. Typically, the yellow wire will be supplying 12 volts when the foot switch is activated. The orange & orange/white would be the function wires going to the coils on the valve body. I would guess at the red wire being the aux control power, black being ground, green I have no guess. I have 40H manual handy, but they use a 9 pin connector and I see your new controller is only a 6 pin. I'll go look for a 60H manual, if I find one and it helps, I'll be back.
Here's the only PQ controller I could find my JLG stuff with 6 pins and the right colour wires.
Thank you for this schematic. I will wire this in following this diagram and see if it works. I greatly appreciate your help on my project!
Hi I have a 1979 40FR jlg lift I just bought at a auction. It has a 4 cylinder Wisconsin engine. It definitely has some age and element wear on it. I'm wanting to try to bring it back to life. I have had the engine running, it has some carb issues I can handle that but the hydraulic hoses are shot in the track going to the boom,and I do believe I will have issues with the wiring. Does anyone have a hydraulic diagram and a wiring diagram if so I would greatly appreciate it.
So I followed that diagram with the new controller I received. In the factory wiring going to the proportional valves I had one ground tied to one of the positive coil wires. I removed that and grounded it to the valve and ran the yellow wire to one of the drive coils and green wire to the other drive coil. The valves are operating correctly now. So the controller is definitely a little different than the original controllers I replaced with but I will order two more of the same controllers and wire the other solenoids in the same. Looking forward to seeing this thing operate again!
That's good to hear! I love it when a plan comes together.
It's been awhile since I've needed assistance. I'm needing parts for a Moog Model 60B Proportioning Control Valve. Anyone have any or know a source?
I have the Moog manual (probably shared it with you already) but I no clue where to find Moog parts anymore. Sorry.
You did share the manual and it has been priceless in keeping it going. I can jump the dump valve and manually push the over ride button on the side of the valve an all works in both directions. I can apply power to the white wire going to the solenoid and it will drive in one direction. Contacting the black wire does nothing. So I'm assuming the magnetic coil is bad ( Hydraulic amplifier ).
Started my 40f today first time since last year. All went good except no boom up or down in the basket. It would work good from the ground controls. Any idea where to look first? It has bertea valves if this helps.
I only ever worked on one (maybe 2) JLG 60 with Moog valves & controls. It was an old baby for sure, I think it was a 1973 or 1974. I have no idea who might still have Moog parts. I have nothing for them. Sorry. Is this hydraulic amplifier just a coil of coated wire around a bobbin? Is it contained in such a way that you can't get it apart to even see the wire? I'm wondering if maybe someone who custom winds electric guitar pickups might be able to help you out?
Hello all My priorities shifted last year , but am ready to finish repairing. Two cylinders need rebuilding. The cylinder that lifts the boom is my chosen starting point. The top pin is removed as are the hoses disconnected. The bottom pin moved an inch or so ,now stuck and no longer cooperating. I need suggestions on getting the pin to move the rest of the way out.
Off has suggested in another post to leave the bottom pin in place and lean the cylinder forward if I remember correctly. You would have to have the boom raised quite high and supported well to do this. A rooftop has been suggested. Doing it this way would also hold the cylinder and make it easier to unscrew the cap if the cylinder has a screw on cap. I have rebuilt every cylinder but the lift cylinder on my 40 year old 40G.
Hi maple2. I never had much to do with Bertea valve 40F's. But, if your boom up/down works from the ground controls, then you must have a basket controller problem. Sorry I didn't notice this sooner.
Hi i have a 40 jlg and the farm front solenoid valve is leaking on the 6 way lock. Can i take the apart and is as simple to fix with new o rings or done it need a whole new soleniod? And if so where could i get its very hard to find info on these. Thanks
If it’s leaking between the solenoid and block O-rings should fix it. If the solenoid itself is leaking then have to replace solenoid
I have the Bertea 6 way block on a 40h jlg does anyone know where I can get a replacement solenoid for?
I purchased a possibly late 70s, 79 JLG 40F Boom Lift today. When you step on the safety switch in the basket, it stalls the engine. Any suggestions? Trying to find a wiring diagram any thoughts? Thank you in advance.
Problem inside the foot switch. Bad diode in there most likely. There are two switches also. Can you get the cover off the foot switch without a cutting torch and sledge hammer?
You can start by checking voltage at the ignition toggle switch in the basket. If drops off to nothing when you step on the foot switch, you'll need to get the cover off and look inside the old girl.
Thank you! The cover is off and my husband says both of those things make sense. Fingers crossed!!
Here's a basket wiring diagram for you
Been looking for information on a 27FN. That I’m looking at, specs would be great, also service and parts information. Would any of the 40N info cross over to this smaller unit?
Welcome to HEF. The way JLG used model numbers, I would say your 27FN is a fairly normal F series JLG. The "N" stands for Narrow. The 27 was a 40 with a two section boom instead of a 3 section like the 40F had.
I'm going to try pasting the JLG 40F Parts Manual files here.
JLG 40F Service Manual
Part 3 of the 40F Parts manual
Off thank you so much for the info. The unit has no forward or reverse movement, owner keeps saying hydraulic filter. After reading most of this thread , I am not as concerned as I was. May have to go pick it up.
It looks to be in really good condition. I doubt the hydraulic filter is causing no drive, but it could be something very simple. On page 2-53 of the parts manual, it shows all the different types of basket controllers they used. Does your 27FN use any of those?
Pics of the unit show what looks like the cutler hammer.
I agree, Cutler Hammer. Very reliable and you can still get parts.
I just finished reading this entire thread, and went through the manuals.WOW! I feel like I know these units personally. I have been thinking of purchasing the one shown above, now I want to, to apply what I have learned. Awesome group of people on here with Off being at the top of the list.
Ended up buying what is supposed to be a 40F, but after reading the forum again I’m wondering if it truly is. Serial number is 732326. It dose not have the basket rotate, it does not have any dump valves? It has Racine bang-bang valves, no proportioning valves. Two of the manual emergency valves are shaft driven from the front of the boom support, the other is at the back of the boom. I have figured out what the 2 valve banks of three do, but it has a single valve with opposing solinoids, one I believe is high drive, not sure what the other is. Another thing I noticed is that the 3rd section of the pump feeds the valve bank on the right, by the hydraulic tank,the middle section feeds the single valve, the one closest to the engine feeds the valve bank on the left side by the main control/ wiring box. Any ideas if it is a 40F, and what the seconded side of the single valve might be for?
It can still be a 40F. They came with different options (like basket rotate) and could have had any of 5 different styles/manufacturers of control valves, and 4 different controllers. I take it you didn't end up buying the 27FN you posted pictures of? The 40F's with all Racine bang-bang valves (solenoid valves) and Cutler/Hamer controllers were by far the most dependable in my opinion. Usually a single coil valve is either high drive, or a dump valve. I don't have the contacts anymore to look up your serial number.
It has dual coils on the single valve. Will get a pic later. Both hose disappear toward the turntable.
No I didn’t get the 27f was quit a drive to look at, and it sold before I made up my mind.
what I always did when I was "mapping" out valves on a machine, was disconnect a wire from the valve, and see what function stopped working. Work your way through all the valves that way. Sounds hokey I'm sure, but very effective. A picture of the machine you bought would be nice to see
I can tell by your serial number that it is a Pre-1980 machine.
And all "F" series JLG's had manually operated emergency decent valves. With one of your valves being on the boom, and no basket swivel, I'm thinking you have a fairly early machine. That 73 at the beginning of the serial number might be accurate as a year.
Been busy working on it in all my spare time. Here are some pics.
More pics.
Some of what I have been working on.
It is getting some (a lot) of much need tlc. Most was apparent when I looked at before purchasing. The big surprise was the engine, seller said that it ran but needed a tune up, sounded good, no knocking, not much oil smoke, but seemed weak. Got him to come down 1,500 on price, got it home checked out the functions all worked with the help of jumper wires for testing (I knew the basket control cable was shot) decided to check out the engine, only running on two cylinders, no compression on 3 and 4,(well now) pulled the heads, two burnt exhaust valves, rust pitting on the cylinders. Wisconsin engine parts are expensive. But it is going to live again.
It is getting some (a lot) of much need tlc. Most was apparent when I looked at before purchasing. The big surprise was the engine, seller said that it ran but needed a tune up, sounded good, no knocking, not much oil smoke, but seemed weak. Got him to come down 1,500 on price, got it home checked out the functions all worked with the help of jumper wires for testing (I knew the basket control cable was shot) decided to check
would you like a VH4D shop & parts manual? Very nice work on the panel btw
I downloaded them off the internet, but thanks. I believe it is a 1976 model. Rims were date stamp in late 1975, controllers had a 1976 date stamp on them. Thanks, it is time consuming, but rewarding.
Also working on making an electrical basket rotation system, simpler than running hydraulics.
I have a 50f that worked for the most part until the engine gave me too many problems. I got a great deal on a 3 Cyl Yanmar Diesel and made the swap. Had to do some modifications to get the radiator to fit but could not be happier. Uses much less fuel than the gas engine. Actually quieter than that air cooled gas pig. Starts every time, etc. Now that I have a reliable engine, I have been trying to figure out the right RPMs. It has a governor and I set it up to run at 1400 RPM for idle speed. Right now I have a throttle cable to speed it up but plan to install a solenoid for high engine at 2400 RPM but I could make it anything I wanted up to 3200. Though in testing, the only time I would want a higher engine speed is for driving. But every function is working a little different. When I go up and down the speed stays governed at 1400 RPM. If I have it at 2400, it bogs down to around 1800. Telescope tilt and rotate don't seem to put too much stress on the engine and it pretty much stays at whatever RPM I had set. At the end of the day, the only time I would ever want more than the 1400 RPM is for drive. It drives at whatever speed I have the engine going the engine does not bog down at all, just drives faster or slower. But swing is where it gets interesting. No matter where I have the speed set, left or right swing bogs the engine down to around 1000 RPM. So I believe the motor is maxed performing but putting alot of stress on it. It would not seem that the swing should require so much power. Any thoughts on the RPMs I am using or the reason the swing is taking so much power?
Scooter.crew, The swing actually has restrictors in-line with the hoses as they leave the valve body. This is to slow the swing down to a manageable speed. That's what is bogging the engine down. Pressures might be set a high also. There is also a by-pass block on the swing to limit swing pressure in case of emergency/accibent. The Yanmar makes a very nice little conversion. Good choice. And the diesel will run at least a week on the fuel tank of the 50F that the gas engine would burn through in 8 to 10 hours. Good job.
Thanks. Another issue maybe you can help out with. I have PQ remote controllers. I replaced one of them a couple years ago, new one worked great. I just replaced another one but this time I was able to find just the control board from Aerial specialists for half the price of the full controller. Got it all hooked up and now is works fine, however, there is a delay in turning off. When I move the lever the lift immediately responds, but when I center it, there is a delay in stopping movement. Even if I go full opposite direction there is a delay in changing direction. Both directions are the same. Are you aware of this problem? Is this a defect or something that can be adjusted. There are 3 small adjustment screws on the potted control board labeled Hi, Low, and Ramp.
What you have there is an updated controller from a "H" series. What you describe is adjustable. The adjustment is called "Ramp". There is a special harness to install between controller and its plug-in while setting it up in series, in milliamps. BUT You can wing it. With your small flat blade screw driver, turn the ramp screw about 5 turns in one direction. If it gets better, turn 5 more. If it got worse, turn it 10 turns in the opposite direction. It takes lots of turns to get any action.
Thanks for the help. I had turned the screws but I didn't know I had to turn them so much so they didn't make a difference obviously. Now it works well, if fact i was able to adjust the min screw as well and now I have much more control. Before is was like a switch, all or nothing, Now the controllers work as advertised and are actually proportional.
Hi All, Bought a 40f a while back and didn't even know who made it or the model number until recently when I saw another one for sale online as it had no tags or markings on it. Mine is an early one with serial #711424 if I read it correctly as it is stamped very lightly in the frame. Mine also has no "controller" on it as all of the switches are wired directly to the valves. Also thanks to OFF for sending me the link to the manuals.
Having a new issue with the old 40F! It will occasionally start to drive forward/backwards on its own when another function is used. Also the telescoping in/out function will also occasionally engage when another function is used. Anybody have an idea where I should start looking to resolve this?
Looking back, I see your machine has the Bertea proportional valves which I didn't get much experience with. (they didn't like Canadian cold, so very few found their way up here). However, I have a Berta Valve manual.
Thank you off. That should be a big help. Did quick back reading on this thread where willie59 mentioned dirty pilot components of the valve can cause the symptoms. Is it possible just to change the hydraulic fluid and new filter to solve this issue or would the pilot have to be taken out and cleaned? What is recommended for the new hydraulic oil for the 40f if this is done? Universal tractor hydraulic fluid?
Yes, things are sticking on you in both the Bertea and Racine valve banks. Could very well be dirty or contaminated oil. Good first step. What we used on them back in the day was a universal SAE 22 hydraulic oil. You don't want to put anything too thick in there. Tractor fluid is usually in the SAE 40 range. There is also an Arctic 15 hydraulic oil we use now. I would recommend that if you use your 40F in winter temperatures. I have also used Dextron type automatic transmission fluid. What ever you can get for cheaper?
It's been over 30 years since I've worked on those machines. But yes, Bertea valves, pronounced Burr tay uh, are very picky about cleanliness of oil. The reason other functions move when you work a function is whenever you work a function it closes the dump valve. That sends oil to the Bertea valve body. If one of the spools in a valve section isn't centered, that oil will make a function move, even if you're not working that function. That's typically caused by the Bertea valve is dirty inside. More than once I've removed the Bertea solenoid and removed the valve spool, clean things up, put it back together and it now works proper.
Going to change the hydraulic fluid in the old girl. Using the parts books you provided a while ago, it shows a wire metal mesh screen above the hydraulic filter element located in the hydraulic tank. It appears mine is missing? It is part # 7000704 Looked up the part number on the internet. Did not seem to find it under that number. Did all the 40f's have this screen? Also, on the high pressure hydraulic filter (mine is exactly like the one labeled #4 on page 21 of this thread). I tried to remove it today. The little canister did not budge. I did not force it. But it seems to be on pretty tight. This just unscrews off right? Is there any trick to it that I am missing? Lastly in the service manual it says when changing the hydraulic fluid, mix your hydraulic oil with 50% diesel fuel. Does this sound right? It won't thin the oil to much and hurt the pump? Thanks you for any help!
Considering that service manual was written 40 to 50 years ago, that may have been what was recommended back then. And I don't recall the oil specs, but I do know the Bertea valves don't like thick high viscosity oils. Typical Dexron transmission fluid or AW32 hydraulic oil is about the equivalent of an SAE 10W oil. I'm thinking if you use an ISO22, like Shell Telus 22, Chevron Rando ISO22 etc, which is equivalent to an SAE 5W grade, I think it would work fine
Was that recommendation for the oil/diesel mix in the Bertea manual? We used to mix 50/50 Kerosene and ISO22 hydraulic oil (I couldn't think of ISO yesterday) in the winter, but that was before synthetic oils were invented. Never had a pump fail, but it was always a risk. Modern oils are much better. The hydraulic filter was the same for all the F series JLG's. The 80F had two of them stacked. I had a couple left, but I think I finally threw them away somewhere at the start of 2025. That part number you posted doesn't sound right. I looked it up, the tank filter is a number 2120055
The high pressure filter canister weighs about as much as a large dog, and is very tight. Like a 48" pipe wrench with a 6ft snipe on the end kinda tight. No fun at all. But I believe Bertea systems also had smaller inline filters between the pump and the valve bank. Have a look.
Thank you Off and willie59 for the great information. I found the small high pressure filter, it is identical to the one pictured on page 21 of this thread. It's about the size of a coffee cup. Put a pipe wrench on it today that thing did not move a hair. I was hesitant to turn it more, did not want it to break. Is this filter under pressure maybe? Looks like maybe a bleeder screw on top of this filter. Maybe crack that a little let some pressure off? I looked everywhere for the high pressure canister filter that weighs as much as a large dog! Could not find anything like that. What area would that be located?
I'm going way out on a limb of memory here, but there's something telling me there's a fine mesh screen within the Bertea servo where the pilot oil enters the servo to prevent debris from getting in that area, have to take it apart to find it. But I could be wrong, been too many years. And years ago I've worked on old Skyworker bucket trucks from back in the 70's, the bucket control didn't use pilot pressure oil from the pump to operate, like most bucket truck controls do, nope, the controls on those things were their own independent hydraulic system. Had a small reservoir of oil at the bucket controls. Once you got all the lines bled of air, when you work the actuator at the bucket, each function acted like a master cylinder that would send oil down the boom lines to the valves at the lower. I recall on those machines you had to use ISO 22 cut 50/50 with Kerosene. If you didn't the oil was too thick to work the controls.
That picture on page 21 of this thread, circled as #4, is a newer version of the old type high pressure filter I was thinking of. The old version is huge. In the 40F parts manual, page 2-57 figure 5 shows the big old beast. Page #2-65, figure 2-36, item 67 is the inline filter used in the Bertea systems.
I just joined the club I purchased a 75? 40fn last night. Im not sure what is all wrong with it yet I need to get an alternator belt and it is leaking inside of the boom. What hydraulic fluid should i run? Im pretty sure if have the bertea valves.
Ill try to post some pictures once i have enough posts I looked through most of this thread yesterday and I didn't see any 40fn im guessing the n is narrow
Here's a couple
Welcome! Yes, N is for narrow and you have Bertea valves and controllers. And I see it's been converted to propane. Everything working or unknown at this point?
What i was told was that everything was working then about a year or so ago when they tried to move it only forward or reverse worked. Well I loaded it and looked at it in the middle of a rainstorm. They installed a new battery it starts and runs but the alternator belt was missing and kept losing voltage so nothing was working great. But once it was drove and winched up the trailer it did drive both directions. But fluid coming out of the boom had to hold the boom in with a come-along. Hopefully i can get a belt for the alternator and find the leak next week Hopefully its just a hose i will probably be replacing all of them anyway but if its a cylinder i can handle that also.
Ok i got it looked at a little bit functions are strange it always wants to boom up but the up and down controls mostly dont work from the basket. I can control up and down from the back but its still always trying to go up i had to hold down most of the time. Telescope works but pours fluid out of the boom when i retract looks like that cylinder is going to be the first project. All of the toggle switches are kinda touchy i think I will just replace them all. Steering does not move at all i can hear something happen but they dont try to move ive tried with the black knob in and out. Im sure i need hydraulic fluid haven't decided what to use
That black knob you mentioned is to put the steering into "tow mode" which allows the steering to free-wheel or follow while being towed. It could also have seized king-pins if the 40F has been sitting a long time. Put it up on jack stands, disconnect the steering ram and see you can get movement, either in the wheels or the ram. On your proportional valve bank, each valve has a knob on each end. Make sure those knobs are out all the way. Each function can be operated manually on ground by screwing in those knobs. Try and get a good strong lamp up your boom to see where the oil is coming from. It could be just a hose or broken fitting. And Oil! ISO 22 hydraulic oil is the thickest you can go. See the top of this page where it is discussed. ISO15 would be better for Bertea systems. ATF works also.
I do have the steering working alot of the time now couldn't tell you what i did lots of the problems are due to low fluid I belive I will see if i can find some buckets tomorrow. I had to turn the lift knob in so it would stop trying to go up all the time if im in the basket down doesn't seem to work and if im at the rear controls I just have to hold down all the time. To me it doesn't look like there are Any hoses in the boom to leak they all go through the power track. I can tell its not coming from the basket hoses. And I can see where the hoses hook onto the block on the back of the hydraulic cylinder that is all dry.
The only hoses that connect to the telescope cylinder are the two hoses that connect to the manifold at the rear/base of the cylinder. The oil feed for the rod side of the cylinder is a piece of welded steel tubing inside the boom, not a hose. If you have major leaking while retracting the boom you most likely have failed rod seal in the gland of the cylinder, which requires break down.
The previous owner told me they used the farm and fleet brand john deere tractor hydraulic fluid which I think is more like 10w30 should i just plan on replacing all the fluid with iso 15? Do you know how much fluid it will use i read the resivoir is 40 gallons maybe I should just buy a 55g drum that's going to cost near what i paid for the lift
Universal tractor/trans fluid, including Hy-Guard and Hy-Trans are at least ISO32, which is equivalent to SAE 15W. Bertea valves don't perform well with that viscosity grade fluid.
I've seen a telescope cylinder split from end to end. It was on an 80F. We dragged it inside a warm shop at -40, left it for the weekend to work on Monday. I guess because of the lock valve, the oil couldn't escape and release pressure as things warmed up & expanded. JLG had no explanation for it.
Wow, I can imagine the noise that thing made when it popped.
I downloaded the service manual a few pages back is there a 3rd part? mine stops on page 5-34. Also I built a tow bar to back it in my shop that was no fun backing up maybe would have been easier with a tractor but mine is a little too small for this heavy thing.
Only 2 files to the service manual, sorry. That's all they wrote. 3 files to the parts manual, 1 file for the operator's manual.
Here's some better diagrams for you. Specific to Bertea
Thank You!
Im very glad I had a this scissor lift
Ok I fixed the leaky telescope cylinder, added about 25 gallons of hydraulic fluid, pulled the spool out of the raise bertea valve and cleaned it up mostly looked fine there was some small debris stuck in some passages on it, fixed the microswich on the basket controls for the raise just adjusted it and replaced the spring for that joystick. Everything works good except if i swing, telescope or drive the boom raises as long as i hold that joystick down at the same time its ok. Works the same with the ground controls im always tapping that switch down. Any ideas what else could cause this?
Sorry just needed to type it out I guess. Ill pull the pilot side of the valve apart next time i get to work on it. A little more Info on my telescope cylinder rebuild. With the kit I ordered everything was right except the piston seal nowhere i went could come up with a seal that would fit those dimensions so I had to machine it to fit a different style seal.
Yes, your lift valve spool is not centering (returning to center). Could be adjustment, could be dirty. On page 92 of this thread, post#1835 there is a copy of the Bertea Valve Manual. If you haven't already, check it out.
Just an update I cleaned the pilot valve and it made no difference. So I swapped it with the swing pilot valve now it always swings left and goes up. I did not expect to make a new problem swapping it ill have to move it back and hopefully it goes back to just 1 problem
Anybody have a good guess on weight im thinknging of buying it for parts
I'm showing 11,600 lbs for the complete machine, and 2,275 lbs for a complete boom assembly. How does 9,325 lbs sound?
That sounds great thank you again
I ended up buying that parts machine it has the same bertea valves and controls as me so that should be helpful. It is also dual fuel so hopefully I can figure out how to add that to mine.