Since it's such a frequent topic in various threads, I thought I'd ask specifically about those who have completed training at a heavy equipment school. If you've gone to a school, was it worth the cost? Did it help you land a job? Did you go directly into the seat, or did you still have to work your way up from a laborer's position? Do you feel that you're better as an operator than any of your co-workers who may have learned "on the job"? Did school simply give you a head start, or are you ultimately more highly skilled than someone who didn't go to school? Any ideas on what the schools could do better, or are they already as good as they can be? What would you change? If there's any insight you may want to offer beyond the few questions I asked, feel free to speak up. and certainly, if you're not yet a member, or are a member who doesn't post regularly, your opinions are important too--What do you have to say? I'm not sure our membership here represents a true cross section of the industry--those who are seeking information might be more likely to find their way to this site, and join, but it seems that there are a whole lot more folks who ask about schools than there are who talk about what school did for them.
Well, I guess I"ll be the first to bite at this one. I graduated from Pennsylvania College of Technology for Heavy Equipment: operator emphasis. Was it worth the cost, I think for someone with next to no prior experience in the business, yes it helps. I went from school to the company I'm currently working for, and a good portion of being hired at and at the pay rate I have is because of the reputation of the school. Did I learn anything more than someone who'd just been hired and worked their way up? Maybe maybe not. What I did get however was a broad coverage of anything I may come across, may it be PM, GPS, or gradestake layout, something that a lot of companies don't have the time to teach their employees from square one. The course at PCT is a 4 semester course and the third semester is seat time training. If anything about the school makes it worth the time and $$ this would be one of the big ones, because you are on a 150 acre site with no more than 17 other students and an instructor, so it's possible to get the hand of the controls and concepts without live utilites, live labors, or 20 machines right around you (always). Did it make me an expert operator? No, but 15 weeks for 6-hours a day and 4 days a week, I've learned a lot from it, that I can use in the real world. Most of the companies that hire PCT students don't garantee instantaneous machine time, but you're laboring time is shortened, but still valubale to see how things go from the ground up. I personally have been on a Volvo A30d for the last few months, in the next couple weeks, I may not be, time will tell. Overall, schools aren't for everyone, this course especially goes over a lot of basics, it was 90% worth it, there were some classes that either weren't taught well or may never be used by me again, but thats how the course is set up. IT got me a foot in the door with several good companies, where I start from there is based on how busy they are, how well I did in school, and any prior experience, and of course the willingness to work hard. I hope I answered what you wanted to hear. If not someone else can I'm sure:wink2
I wanted to hear what you answered, no matter what it was that you had to say.
About four years ago I had to go for some training at the commercial safety college in Nova Scotia. The training was how to properly evaluate a driver when giving road tests. During this time they took us over to where the backhoe course (field training) was taking place. There was approx. 12 students and 6 backhoes. I believe it was a six week course. They was into their third week when we were there. I found it to be really good. They had a very knowledgeable instructor that was continually trying to bring out the best in them. He had them trenching, ditching, loading and back dragging. Always starting the day with a pretrip inspection and grease the machine. Each day the instructor was evaluating the students and recording their progress. He pointed out to us which students were naturals and those that were struggling. He told us that he had students in the past that have quit the school because they wasn't cut out to be an operator. This training wasn't a walk in the park, it was hard work and the students definately got their moneys worth of seat time. To me, yes you cannot beat experience, but if a person has the training like I witnessed at this school...I would recommend it for anyone starting out wanting to be an operator. I would also think that if anyone has equipment training from a recognized school, it should make a difference when applying for a job as an heavy equipment operator.
Associated Training Services Does anyone have experience with the Assoicated Trainging Services schools, based out of Wisconsin, but schools across the country. I am interested in their excavator training program, but it seems they don't put you onto the excavator until the third course, or until you are about $12,000 into it. Seems a little steep and too long to wait. Anyone have any thoughts about them, or know of some really good excavator/demolition training opportunities for my family. Thanks.
I think It all depends on the student attending the school. One guy could go through coasting along onlyin interested in getting some seat time, then thinking as soon as he gets out of school he'll get hired on as a big shot operator. while another might go to through the training taking in everything he can, knowing that the school will get his foot in the door as an operator, and teach him some very valuable information not just on moving joysticks, but reading plans, being able to visualise what you are trying to accomplish, etc, working safely, etc. Example being i know a couple guys that went through different "heavy equipment operatoing schools" One guy has been a laborer for the last 3 years since he got out of the school, probably less than 100 hours spent in various machines, he's got a bad attitude and he thinks he's better than he really is. On the other hand there are people like Jim Bruce, which seems to have really benifited from the program he attended. If i was looking to hire a guy as an operator i would take everything they told me about how long they have been operatoing, what school they have been to, whatever, and throw it out the window. You stick a guy in a machine and watch him work for a couple hours and you will know if he is worth hiring or not.
Hands on experience versus school But what's the value of hands on experience compared to a formal training school?
I think anybody who has been around a while will tell you that no amount of "schooling" will duplicate what you get from real world experience. That's why I asked whether people thought schooling made them better operators overall, or if it just gave them a head start over those whose training has been all "on the job". My presumption is that early on, whether it's in the real world, or in a school, you can't begin to absorb the experiences that you'll accumulate in the real world that'll make you a seasoned operator. You're too busy getting the fundamentals down. (And just because that's my presumption doesn't make it right. Feel free to express your disagreement.) The question is, whether it's a better deal to pay, cash out of pocket, somebody to teach you the fundamentals, or to "pay your dues" by working your way into a shot at being an operator, and learn the fundamentals there. (My personal opinion is that the laborer had better be learning the fundamentals of the profession already. Then, learning to manipulate the machine is the only hurdle to becoming an operator.) I knew a guy whose favorite saying was, "you pay for your education". He'd say that every time he made a mistake that cost him time or money. It was his way of expressing that he'd learned a lesson, and the mistake wasn't going to be repeated. If you learn strictly on the job, somebody is going to pay for your education, whether it's in the form of you taking a lower pay rate until you're considered "experienced', or your boss, because every greenhorn mistake you make is going to cost him time and money. It probably usually comes down to some combination of those two factors. And all that brings us right back to the first question I asked, whether it's worth the money? To phrase it a little differently, of the two options, which is the more cost effective?
I agree that there is no substitute for real world experience. Schools in my opinion can either give a guy (or gal) who doesn't have a lot of experience a chance to learn more and get their foot in the door with people of the industry. Or it is good for those who want to learn some of the other aspects of the job, from estimating, to surveying to mechanic to operating, or managing. Even the best schools won't turn out expert operators (however some do come out with that attitude), that takes time, in the real world doing something real. I had the opportunity to help install a catch basin and ADS pipe behind one of the school's buildings during my semester operating, and I really feel I learned as much from those two (or three) days as I did in the week it took me to dig my first trench. There is something different between just digging a trench for practice and digging one that will actually have something functional in it. Our one instructor always made a point of reminding us that we were at the school to learn more than just "how to move a bunch of levers". And I think that some of the other stuff I mentioned before will make me a better operator in the years to come than just starting from the ground up.
I attended ATS in Lecanto FL .... :nono . The first job I landed was a 623B . None of those in FL . The foreman said I shouldn't mention "the school" anymore when looking for work. ATS was a giant sandbox where we all got into the seat the first day :laugh :laugh :laugh .10 men 6 pcs. excavator,mini excavator,D5G wide track,924 loader,backhoe and a boxblade.All brand new and all rode hard. $10,000 loan overnight got me a CAT key, a couple of lesson books from the '70's, and a genuine diploma from the stationary store. Job placement was a joke. What it did was got me comfortable in the seat. When i got back to CA, persistence+$23a month put me on C list local 12 and a problem with compaction made the job last 8 days which automaticly made me eligible for initiation and I am now on "B" list. Wage here is $32.99hr. overtime is killer:thumbsup . Hope this gives some insight. School was like a vacation