We're aware that we have several major equipment manufacturers watching our board, I thought it might be interesting to hear from the members what they feel the ultimate dozer would be. Let's consider a D5-7 sized machine, they are what I see most often around my area. If you were designing a dozer, what features would you add? It could be as simple as a seating position change or as crazy as some new electronic gizmo that would automatically perform some function. Put all your ideas here, who knows, maybe you'll see some of them incorporated in a future dozer. After this thread has run its course, we'll move on to another type of machine.
I'd add weight. Not by making a dozer bigger, just making them heavier. The way I'd do this its by removing anything plastic. Sure they look nice with all of the hoses and wires neatly tucked away behind an aesthetically pleasing plastic panel... Kind of like in a car or motor home or a Freightliner that is driven every day off road. Everything plastic starts falling apart. But since everybody knows that will never happen, How about an option of a seat that can be positioned or moved off to the side in larger dozers. Rip Cats for example. Instead of having to turn your body in the seat to see your work area which is BEHIND you, how about a seat that swings around just enough to make ripping easier on your neck?
I'm with Pete, make it heavier by increasing all the material thickness, so it isn't so easy to bend if a branch hits it. If it were a D7 it would weigh about 80,000 lbs, and have the 4bbl ripper option with about 280 hp. I would retain the torque converter and powershift combo, with a manually operated clutch switch to apply the TCC for distance dozing. The only electronics would be engine control to meet the Tier3 or 4 or what ever the latest emission standards are. It would be offered in either differential steer like the big cats or older clutch brake set up. I have run all the different steering systems and still preffer the non linked cluctch brake system. Its faster, for what I do when clearing. Though it is alot more work and wears ya out more than the newer stuff. Its just one of those deals that is handy when you need it.
For me, the ultimate is: Only thing I would change is maybe to an H series, and a little bit more horsepower. For me, LPG tracks. It has the best of both worlds. We often bury equipment, and need a winch to drag it out. We will get some tough soils, and need a ripper. With that setup, you get both. Great for land clearing. Needs to be setup for GPS so it's capable of doing double duty as a finish dozer. I want one machine to do the job of 4.
This is a great thread idea; the last dozer I operated was an old D-5 with the clutch on the left side near the arm rest, so I am showing my age and the age of the equipment. But like Pete said removing the cheap components would be a start but in doing so the cost would rise so that ain't gonna happen. Now if the R&D group would look at the vibration effects of these lighter parts and work toward better reliability per operating hour instead of engineering failures for profit that would make a lot of operator and companies really happy. In our world not the best business sense but I can assure you that CAT would get a lot of business due to reliability and up time on the job. And about ergonomics with regards to the operator I believe they have come around close to full circle since I ran that old D-5. But seat position would be a huge plus when ripping and doing rear looking on a site. Doing R&D on crash load analysis it might not be safe and thus the reason for not doing more in that area? I would really be interested in hearing from the engineering groups from different manufactures in plain English about the different analysis done on equipment.
Dozer575's ultimate dozer Hello, Dozer575. Did you bother to check the specs of existing Cat models before you posted the above post? If you want an 80,000# machine, why not buy a D8R or D8T, both around that weight or slightly above and with around 25 more horsepower than you specified. The current D7R series 2 is a roughly 60,000# machine with around 240 horsepower. You want to add another 20,000# and only another 40 horsepower. That's the power of ONE D2 and the weight of about 3 1/2 D2's. Or, to put it another way, you want a D7 with the weight of a D8R and 20 less hp. That doesn't quite make sense to this little black duck. OOOOPPPSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I forgot - you don't like hi-sprocket drives, do you? The current D7G series 2 is around 45,000# and about 200 hp. Would you REALLY want to add 35,000# and only another 80 hp? Quote: "I'm with Pete, make it heavier by increasing all the material thickness, so it isn't so easy to bend if a branch hits it." Unquote. Firstly, ROP didn't say, "Increase all the metal thicknesses." He said that he'd like to do away with all the plastic and replace it with metal to increase weight. And if anything gets bent by a tree branch, what was the operator doing at the time, catching 40 winks, or 'fiddling' while the tree attacked? It is very difficult to design a dozer, or indeed any machine, so that it is all things to all users. For heavy bulk pushing, a dozer needs more weight up front than does one used mainly for trimmimg. Ditto with a dozer used mainly for ripping as the weight transfer that occurs as the load comes on the tracks greatly increases the machine's ability to put its grunt on the ground. I have run the D7G series 1 and found it a good machine to run, a good pusher, stable and manoeverable, easy to control and dependable. I have not run the D7H or R so am unable to comment. I spent 2 1/2 years on a wide Cat D5B with straight blade and ripper and found it to be a VERY good all-round machine, good at bulk pushing and great for trimming. That particular machine did have a somewhat heavier than standard ripper fitted which I have no doubt added to its performance. Maybe putting a Tier 3 or 4 engine into that machine would come close to the ultimate for me, at least in that size/weight range and for the work that I was doing with that machine, a mix of bulk pushing and fine trimming. ROP's swivelling seat wouldn't go astray either and possibly hydrostatic drive as well. More replaceable bushes in blade push arms, etc., wouldn't be a bad idea either 'cos they DO wear out and get slack. If the manufacturers are going to stay with inter-connected steering clutches and brakes, at least get them up to the sensitivity and controllability of the older separated clutch and brake systems. The inter-connected systems are easier on the operator over a day's work but I have yet to run one that was as easy to control or as accurate as the earlier separated systems. (Hey Bob, how about that? We agree twice in 24 hours.) I'd probably think up some more if I didn't need to go to bed. Yes, Angela, even I need to sleep at least a little occasionally.
ole catskinner can give some discriptive things to ponder. Cheers.
Rotating seat for ripping would be nice! Yea remove the plastic, make the windows open easyer, bigger fuel tanks... thats all i got for now
Rotating seat would be nice. So would an instructor's seat. I tend to forget that i even have windows if I have ac / heat, with the exception of diggin with a deere 310sg. How about better sound reduction in the cabs, they have come a long way, but since this is the ultimate dozer... Finish dozers - we can always use a bigger and better view of the blade. Sometime I have to get soem seat time on the new komatsu finish machine as well as a deere high speed deal. Big dozers - lets remove the nasty bumps that you find when on rock jobs, without loosing the ability to feel the dozer. -- After all this is the ultimate dozer.
Yay, first post. Why not the smaller dozer sizes? My biggest gripe is not enough weight on the front end of the D3/D4, I'd like to see an equalizer bar option like the big boys have and a hydraulic cylinder on top of the blade to adjust the angle rather than that rotten turn buckle, sometimes, it's nice just to tweak that angle while your dozing to carry or get better penetration. Another option is bogie rollers, or a system similar to Bobcat's roller set up. I'd also like to see some extra sets of hydraulic lines in the rear so us little guys can hook up to the local farmer's discs after a major land leveling project.
Welcome to the Forums Leadfoot!:drinkup
I say start making cabs a little more user friendly especially Caterpillar. Their cabs have come a long way, but I still find the cabs cheap in our new machines. Also windows that are functional, especially in track loaders (mines used as a dozer). I don't know how it is in some other dozers, but moving the stereo would be a nice touch as well. Why is it still above the operators head in most machines? Put it in the side console where its easy to get to. But please for pete's sake don't do it like they do in an excavator and put it under an armrest :bash I have also noticed companies getting awful cheap on the paintjobs their putting on our 200 000$ and up machines. We have a brand new 8T and the paint doesn't look as good as the 8N we got at Ritchie Brothers 2 years ago. And as others have said, more visibility, better feel of the blade and here is a shocker of an idea once again... operator comfort... Isolate the cabs from the chassis. And once again if anyone from Cat is reading... I have a plea from every mechanic on earth who's ever worked on a C series track loader.... make the cab tilt again. No tilt really sucks,
In response to leadfoot, back 30 -50 years ago dozers with rear outlets, p.t.o.'s and drawbars were common. But that was when they were more common in agriculture. Also the sizes were alot smaller like 35 - 60 hp. One that grandpa had in the shed was a j.d. 40. Later model was a 420, two way blade, and a three speed trans. When I ran it, mind you it had 40 years of work in a stone quarry and it was about the right size for grading anthills...
Well most of the asthetic stuff you guys mentioned is coming in the new dozers already. We had an 8T on a golf course which had the sideways seat (easily look to your right for ripping) and the computer console on your right as well. I also ran a new 6R with a sideways seat and a sixway. I have to say with the sixway blade you can see the majority of your cutting edge the whole time (and I'm a tall guy so I'm up higher than normal too). I'll agree with burnout, the quality of plastic in the 6R was shameful. I stuck my lunchpail behind the seat on the plastic and by the end of the day there were scratches all over it (the plastic not the pail). The 8T seemed to look really good inside but I was only in it for about 15 minutes showing the guy how to use the computer to change his default starting gear etc.
I cant think of many ways to improve the dozer category. Some real great machines out there right now. But excavators...
Those are probably next Steve said we would beat this one to death then start on something else.
I don't think there will ever be an ultimate dozer but from a mechanics perspective I can think of some things I'd like to see in the current production units. I think there needs to be some kind of winching mechanism that works from inside the cab for the belly pans. I don't know how many hundreds of hours I've put in pulling a pan to change a hose and then jacking or stringing come alongs and chains underneath to get the thing back up. And on that vein why isn't there some kind of adapter that I can use on the machine for dragging tracks on with. Something on the blade maybe or can be mounted on the hard nose so I don't have to use another machine and a 150 feet of chain or cable. I'd like to see equalizer bars with a center pin mechanism that doesn't have to be jacked in and out with a forty ton hollow ram. I'd also like to see a lot more useful life out of the bushings and pins. I do like the cannon style track frames on the big machines. I hate the suspended undercarriages because they add tons of cost and complexity and I haven't yet figured out yet how they make the dozer more productive. I want to see a hard nose that bolts on. That stupid pin setup they use now is guaranteed to work loose between 5,000 and 10,000 hours. Usually I don't hear that there is problem until the fan catches the guard and tries to stuff it through the radiator cores. The fix requires pulling the front of the machine apart, welding the bores, machining them and installing all new pins and bushings. I never had probems with the old D8 and D9 dozer hard noses coming loose. This issue I feel is one of those engineering for failure things previously mentioned. I have seen swivel seats in dozers and found that they get broken with about twice the frequency of standard seat suspensions. I would like to see seats designed for really big people. I really like the air suspended seats. I do like the new electronic diagnostics in the Cat dozers because they tell you what is wrong and I don't necessarily have to buy a $1,000 service manual or hook up to the internet to figure it out. On the other hand I really don't like that I can't make the engine perform to my specifications or that I have to call out a dealer wrench at a $1,000 a day and still don't get the thing running and still have to pay or they shut off my parts supply. That's all I can think of for now but I'm sure there are better minds out there that can improve on my list.
Why not hace a CCTV on the rear of the big boys with rippers? The Volvo ADT's I drive all have them, they are great for the greenies, and having a CCTV on a ripper would eliminate the need for a swivel "Captain Kirk" chair.
Does a guy with a mere 56 hours in a D6N get to chime in (howdy fellas!)? If I remember correctly, Deas called it a "chicken switch" when I was seeking some guidance here before. Does that chicken switch need to be so touchy? I swear, have any of you fellas had your teeth rattle like mine the first time you tapped the skids? I know, all you guys don't use brakes...but the first time? The sliding windows (only 3000 hrs.) rattled so hard I had to use empty water bottles squeezed in to quiet them down. Now I ain't no peach, but for you long hour fellas the isolated cab mentioned before in a previous thread would sure be a nice feature if I made my money like you folks.
I am with stump jumper. The ultimate dozer needs a buddy seat. That way when I come home after being in rock all day and tell the wife how tired I am and she just laughs, with the buddy seat and a lockable seatbelt she could know how I feel sometimes. Lol. Also do something with the platforms, it is just a place for dust to collect and every time you shut the door it just pushes more dust in the cab. A full suspension operator station (seat, controls and armrest)like they have in the new ag tractors would also be nice.
Belly pan winch: Man... you got that right... I've been trying to get something figured out just like you suggested. We've got a JD 750c, and I doubled the thickness on the bottom... welded 5/8 plate on both pans... afraid of putting a big ding in one from a rock. They're heavier now... but they were too heavy to mess with originally. I usually remove them both every year to clean them... pine needles, sticks, grass, or anything burnable; do a lot of fire work and I don't want anything in the pans to catch on fire. The front one isn't too bad... but the back one is horrible to get back on by your self... and it's usually "by your self"... Just mention "belly pan", and it seems you become the only living person on earth... I can put a bar across the c-frame and use the blade to lift the front one up (6-way)... but the back one needs to go in at a slight angle and then up. I think I've got a winch system figured out, and I'll explore the concept the next time I tilt the cab. OCR
The only thing I can think of is purley convienience stuff. I don't run small stuff, I spend most of my time on a D10T. I would like to see some sort of a deep tray that runs the length of the rear window, for storing stuff. I work a 10- 16 hour shift depending on the day. I take a jacket, lunchbox, and a gallon water jug. My biggest complaint especially with Komatsu, is that they don't have adaquit storage. I would also like to see tool boxes mounted outside somewhere. The T model has handy little storage straps, but they wear out and are kinda akward to use. As far as the other stuff the T is tops as far as I'm concerned. Would also like to see a from the factory mounted slope meter on the RIGHT side as the seat faces this direction anyway. Love the padded knee area and the air ride seat, just wish the seat bottom it's self would tilt forward to relieve pressure on the back of your legs. I also agree with who ever posted something about heavier as opposed to larger. That T is a horse, if it were heavier I think you could get longer more productive pushes, with out spinning out. Oh yeah, I'd like a 6pack and a burger too!
hey guys i think maybe a tilt seat for batter work insteard of sitting on the arm rest.thats about it morgan
gday all, someone mentioned earlier about having the armrest with seat (all as one) like what is used in ag tractors, it is good but Cat would have to beef it up a lot to take the rough treatment that the larger dozers would give it. I have a Cat tractor and I see they have now used the dash out of it in a lot of earthmoving gear and it seems durable but if they used the armrest without major work on the chassis, it would be a disaster.I totally agree on the belly plate, they are a pain in the a#$% and something should have been done decades ago. For a start the hinge on them should be on the inside so they cannot get damaged(in saying that I only have a 9L so maybe they have changed). I better leave it there cos Im a farmer and I might winge all day!! Cheers.
I have a strange idea for cat... what the hell is with not having cupholders in some machines? Our 312B has a sweet cupholder... but my new 973C has nothing? Also if cat would rework the inside of their clutch brake setup dozers like an older Komatsu it would be perfect. Put the throttle on the left hand side of the seat. Our old D85's I can put my feet up on the dash and do my dozing with just my hands. Transmission, steering and throttle all on the left hand and blade with the right. The perfect setup for me. And on a side note.... if they could work it in that my machine had more power but used about 100 gallons less fuel a day that would be great too......
Offer a Sealed version for Swamp Buggy applications. Ross
I sat on a new D155 today. My advice to all the manufactures of large dozers is. Move that seat over to the left like it was on the older cats. I wish I could show the engineers why. The other option is moving the blade forward.
My Perfect Dozer. Hey guys, Here's a few things I would like added or changed to make our life at work more comfortable and convenient. Design engineers should have to spend a few full 12+ hour days in machines and realize that we spend more time in them than we do at home. I've been running dozers for 29 years, and am a finishing operator. Anyways, my list... Powertrain I would like it to be fully hydrostatic like the small john deere dozers. I love being able to turn on a dime in tight areas. I don't do it very often and in fact I'm more known for making 6 or 8 point turns just to avoid making ruts, but in some spots you don't have that option. Trackframes Get rid of the clutter!!! I'm thinking about shoveling tracks with this one. Nothing worse than constantly hitting bolt heads, lift eyes, lips, etc when you are shoveling tracks. Please keep the surface smooth. Give us enough room under carrier rollers and sprockets to get a track shovel in sideways. Move the track tightener access so it's not right in the way of cleaning around rollers. Cab First of all Sound Suppression. I'd like to be able to hear myself think and be able to understand what's being said on the radio/2way/phone without stopping the machine to listen. I don't think it would be too difficult to add a little more padding to the walls and floors to accomplish this. More storage space!!! Seems to me that cabs have gotten smaller over time. With me in the cab I need room for the following. My lunch kit, 2 liter thermos, bottles of water, windex, paper towel, can of WD40, and a can of contact cleaner. (which I need to clean gps receiver cable ends sometimes) As someone above mentioned, a tool box mounted outside of the cab would be fine for storing some of these things. And there's always little extra's you carry with you that there is no proper place to store. I would like to see things like cup holders, ashtrays, little storage pockets (think cigarettes) put into 5"x5" modules that can be switched around and located (plugged in) on either side, wherever the particular operator wants them. I happen to be left handed so an ashtray on the right side and cup holder on the left just sux for me. If I had the ability to locate that ashtray to the left (just above the steering lever), I would be able to keep my floor a lot cleaner. Blade This is more wishfull thinking than anything because I don't know how realistic it would be. I would like to see the blade angle more. In wet material like the silty clay I am working in right now, I can't get it to roll off the blade. If I could angle the blade a little more it would sure help. I would also like to see a hydrolic wing that lowers from either side of the blade for trimming up ditch toes, etc. Tracks I would like to be able to hydrolicly move the entire track frames forward and back a few inches. This way you could set them depending on what you were doing. If you were bulking dirt, you would move the tracks back giving you more weight on the front end for digging. If you are trimming, then move the tracks forward to be more stable on the front end. I just got a D6T a few days ago with a taller heavier blade and it seems a little front heavy compared to the D6R I've been running for the past year. Moving the tracks forward slightly would fix that. This could only work on high drive machines but it would be a nice option. Computer Some machines already have this, but some (like the D6's) don't. I would like the ability to set certain things like responsivness, hydrolic speed, aggressiveness, and the ability to disable cat's quick drop [feature?] But I don't want it permanently disabled. Sometimes I need that feature (a quick jerk) to get this wet material off the blade. Anyways, I don't want you to think that this is just a bitchfest. All the equipment has come a long way since I started running it so long ago, and overall I'm quite happy. I just happen to be a critic so usually only point out the bad things Overall I love all the new technology. Please excuse my spelling/grammar mistakes. And if you are with CAT, feel free to invite me down to the cat proving grounds sometime ;P (somewhere warm when it's slow here in the winter would be great) Cheers Dennis
Move seat to the left side????????????????????????? Hi, Dozer 575. Yeah, I wish you could too. Why don't you explain your reasons? For mine it is still a little left of center and slanted to the right to make it easier to look round at your ripper or anything else you might be working with behind you. To be perfectly honest, I manage to adapt my operating to wherever I happen be sitting. I have operated centre-sit graders and loaders, left sit 'dozers and scrapers and a right-sit excavator all in the same day. No problem. Might that be 'cos I don't really KNOW where I'm at so it doesn't bother me being all switched around? LOL. And just how is moving the blade forward going to improve things? The further ahead of the machine the blade is, the more it moves up or down as you go over a bump or through a dip, thus making it harder to follow and control. Sure you might be able to see the ground behind the blade a bit more but I have done some of my best dozing with D9G's and H's where the closest point to the ground that you could see on the back of the blade was about 10" above the ground. On most 4wd compactors, it's way more than that and some people can do a great job with them. Just my 0.02.
I agree with deas, moving the blade ahead would make the machine touchier. I'm not sure but it probably would mess with the weight balance of the machine. I can see it messing with the tracking of the machine when you have the blade angled. What your doing is increasing the length of the lever that is shoving you sideways without increasing the ability of the dozer to resist that force. If you really need to have a visual marker for your blade to ground contact, park the dozer on a level patch of gound / concrete, and paint a mark that lines up to where you can just see over the track. Or better yet, get a feel for your kitty.
Bullseye. Hi, Stumpjumper. BULLSEYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Easy fix mate. All our dozers get a couple of pieces of hollow bar welded to each section of the belly plate, with matching pieces on the frame. When you need to access inside you just slip in a pin to work as a hinge, put a hydraulic jack under the other side and undo the bolts. Then lower the jack, do the job and jack it up again. The plate just swings down to the bottom of the jack stroke on one side which gives room to get in. Hinging allows for easy alignment going back up, and means it cant slip off the jacks and squash you when you're dropping the bolts. I can lower any section of belly plate on one of ours, hose the dirt out, and have it up again in 30 minutes. WARNING: Remove the pins when not in use. Otherwise if you do hang up and warp the plate you'll have to cut them out. And that's a nasty job. And leave enough room between each section of hollow bar for some movement.
:deadhorse I think rotating seats are good, so your whole console moves with you. Cat had this thing with right ways angled seats, for better blade and ripper visibility, so if it rotates, you can watch both sides of the blade and the ripper, hopefully at the touch of a button... Kinda like in a TLB... lets not go there...:deadhorse:angel I think that making the cab quieter means that you can't hear what your machine is trying to tell you. I have never actually run a dozer, but that is what I would love to operate. Sound suppresion is good, but not too much, you still got to hear your machine.
Does anyone else have mice problems if the equipment sits for days or months? The buggers are awful on my older equipment, I can only imagine what they would do to newer electronic stuff. To the end of durability and longevity I am not an electronics fan, I really don't see these newer machines lasting like the 70's model dozers. To be fair to the new dozer I ran at a field day, it probably doesn't drop to a low rpm with the deaccelerator due to emissions, and maybe you could develop a touch for the brake. But man a new dozer ought to be able to be stopped and started moving smoothly. I guess it would start smooth enough if you could get stopped smooth, but seemed kinda designed to just change directions without feathering to a stop. Things I would add to the list: Mouse proof, All electronics and harnesses need to be easy to trouble shoot and not require a company field tech. Brakes that can be feathered. Long Lasting!
I second the mice proof.That has been my thought on the electric drive D7E the rodents would have a field day on the electric harness Midwest must be the only place that rodents live in heavy equipment:beatsme:usa
Size matters We have a poll for age of members on here how about one for size? 6'4" 300+# makes the cabs awful cramped. Size 16 boot gets stuck too easy. Love to use foot rests on our new D6. Have to wear old football helmet to get in and out so I don't knock myself out. This thing is like sitting in the center seat on an airliner with fat broads on both sides. Pete
I always get that seat:Banghead:Banghead
Ultimate dozer. Hi, Folks. The Ultimate Dozer? Getting EVERYBODY to agree on this would be like trying to get a unanimous vote from the U.N. on shooting Robert Mugabe to end his dictatorship --- just not going to happen. In the D5 - D7 class? D5's, D6 's and smaller tend to do more trimming than bigger machines, the D7's included, so they tend to need a different balance from the bigger dozers which are more commonly used for bulk pushing and ripping. As mentioned in an earlier post, I personally consider the Cat D5B wide guage that I ran for 2 1/2 years to be the best all-round dozer that I have ever run. It could bulk push better, pound for pound, than a D10R. It would fill that 10 foot wide blade right up and boiling over the top and still keep on cutting more and loving it. The same D5B was also a great little trimming machine. Most of the work that I did with it was levelling house pads to +/- around 1/2" to 3/4" - ignore the grouser marks - with laser monitoring, not laser controlled. It was great for this sort of work 'cos it could also RIP. I can't remember another small dozer that ripped like that little jigger and I've had my ample butt on a few. AND, it didn't have ANY electronics. It had an uncertified, imitation open ROPS canopy on it that could have made a good cab if it had been closed in. For sure, it would have had more room inside than the low-roofed toilets that pass for cabs on current model Cat dozers. Cat engineers, are you listening? With the current cost of running earthmoving equipment, you don't want the operator having to stop the machine, get off and go somewhere far removed from the machine every time he feels like a drink of water. How about some space AND some stowage for a reasonable sized drink container and a reasonable sized lunch box? Controllability is another issue that needs some attention, especially steering. Diff steer is great where you have room for it. I have found the diff steer machines that I have run to be a real PITA in tight spaces. Hydrostatic is way better in this regard. As for inter-connected clutches and brakes, they would be nice IF they were as precise as the earlier separated sytems but I have yet to find one that IS. Back to R+D on this one, fellers. An isolated cab might be nice too, provided that it didn't flop about like a fresh-landed fish. I once drove a truck - for one short trip - that had a shock absorber mounted cab. When the truck went around a corner, the cab leaned outward so much it felt like it was going to fall over the side. Un-nerving, to say the least. Still on cabs, I once operated a D8K dozer that had a front window in the cab that sloped outward toward the top. It was brilliant in the way that it eliminated reflections, both during the day and at night. The later Australian-built Cat 12E 17K graders also had this feature and they were great to use too, for the same reasons. Why has that 'technology' been shelved. A/C and radio controls where you can get at them, speakers that you CAN hear clearly. In short, a good power-to-weight ratio, good balance, good controllability, good all round vision, operator friendliness including good in-cab features and comfort, and GREAT reliability. Can any of you manufacturers fit ALL of that in one machine? Just my 0.02.
:lmao:lmao:falldownlaugh Do you know where i am f-r--o-ho-ho-m? AAHH hahahahahaha. I nearly wet myself, mhmhmhmhmh mm:falldownlaugh:laugh:laugh Do-o you-o kno-haha-w how-ow-ow many times we talk abo-oh-oh ut this here???? hahahaha
Getting A Laugh Hi, Bellboy. Glad you got a laugh out of it.
Nope...NE gets them too!
Ultimate Dozer They already built the ultimate dozer. Caterpillar D8H 46A built on the cusp just before the K's were released. I have owned and run both. The 46A with the 300 HP spacer plate engine is an amazing machine. What's more, I can work on them because there are no computers or other electronic junk to corrupt the system. Just raw bullet proof horse power. We use them for dozer work as well as pulling scrapers. :Banghead
Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums Greg! :drinkup
When I bought my D5B, someone had welded the oil-drain access on the front pan closed, so you had to drop the pan just the change the oil. I fixed that with an air chisel and some fabrication, but getting the pan back up was always a pain in the ass running chains underneath, and having it slide this way and that until I welded a hook on each side of the pan at the center of gravity.....now I just stick a come-a-long on each side to the ROPS and up she comes. The rear is still a pain, although I've seen some on the D6's that I've worked around that are hinged at the front, so you can put it back up with a jack.
I have often had the same thought. Actually, there is a company called Morgan Forestry Products that builds a line of heavy skidders that have a system like that in the cab. Here's a link to their site to see what I mean. It shows a picture in the brochures they have online. http://www.silvatechgroup.com/morganforestry/index.html Brian
gimme a d8h. good power, good control, decent comfort, great sound.the new d3s and 4s are crapola, imho. too jerky and too light. deeres are way too light, they git to chattering too easily. 8rs are ok as are 6ms. the finger tip steering sux, though. love diff steer.
The Ultimate Dozer? With a belly pan winch. Took a while too... Lol Here's some pictures of the winch I just installed, to lift the back pan on a 750c. First, I cut a chain splice in half and welded it to the pan bottom for the winch cable... the one to the left is just to show what I used. This just shows how I attached the cable. I actually double lined it by running the free end back on the drum. This is the dinky little winch I used... lol My Brother bought it a couple years ago, and it's just been laying around here. It's basically an ATV winch... I think he said it cost about $45.00. Another winch picture... dragging pan under dozer. This shows the winch starting to lift the belly pan. I'll post the rest tomorrow. OCR
That looks like it will work great! You must be putting your snooze time to good use. LOL Getting the pan covers back on was always one of the worst parts of the job. Would also make it nice to be able to keep it in place when unbolting instead of eating a face full of dirt and grease as it gets looser and is falling on you!
What did you use to weld the chain splicer to the pan? If the chain splice link is made of forged steel no problem, low hydrogen rod like 7018 works great.
Nice job OCR!!! You are coming closer to building our dream machine.
SSSSSSSSwwweeeeeeetttt! I like it too !
hinges work too I have a couple of hinges made out of strap welded to the sides of both belly pans on mine, they swing out of the way if you don't need to do much under there, and come back easily with a comealong under it. The winch idea is a great one too. Great job! My idea of a new dozer would be a new 6D or 7G, made from all the old dies, but with the blade cylinders mounted on the hardnose. Not one computer, and on 12V. 3306 motor is very inexpensive to run long term. My earmuffs with a radio in them suppress the sound level just fine in those metal cabs. Parts are already on the shelf everywhere.
How bout a hands free headset two way radio. mount the transmit switch on the blade control and while there at it tap in the cd\radio with a volume control beside the transmit switch that way you dont have to stop working to have that 10 min radio convo with your wiggle wagon driver
A belly pan winch. I guess "Tomorrow is Yesterday"... lol For 25c though: Maybe a few more pictures now... The last picture was winch starting to lift the belly pan... This one shows the pan about half way up... just to the point where the back starts to hit some structure for the track frame pivot. This is the place where the swearing would usually start in earnest. In order to get the back part over the top of the structure, the pan needs to be moved forward, and the back tilted up... very hard maneuver if it's on a floor jack, or some other support. As can be seen, all I had to do was use one hand... I was holding the camera with the other... and give it a gentle pull, and push down to lift the back end... and a gentle push, and the pan edge was over the structure. This was kinda like a "hand shake", signifying the end to a 10 year feud... and believe me... I had never touched it with that attitude before... :lmao Now you can see that the pan is butted up against the tab with the two bolt holes... these are the two rear attach points. I'll point out too... all this maneuvering was easy, since the pan was hanging from a free swinging attach point, and more or less balanced. Just a little more winching, and since it was pulling at a slight back angle, it sucked the pan right up tight to the back. You can also get a little better view of how I rigged the cable around the chain splice... kind of a loop affair... I sure almost every one has used this "knot" themselves. Winched the pan up tight, and every bolt started by hand!!! I even had a hard time believing that, didn't have to pry, or move it a bit. This just shows the bolts, inserted hand tight. This is just a picture of the belly pan, with the bolts in... still hand tight. But it also shows the "structure" part, that the pan has to go over, that I was talking about earlier. And that more or less "wraps" it up... lol OCR
This is a classic case of 'necessity is the mother of invention'. That is clever, but simple, OCR, you should slap a patent on it, before the big manufacturers copy it, you may never have to work again. Well done.:notworthy Rn'R.
A belly pan winch. Thank you very much, my friend... OCR
Excellent work OCR ! I like the double rigged cable.I'l inform "starfleet command" on your progress.Live long and prosper OCR.
Really nice OCR!
I like the idea of a reversable cockpit. might work well with a skidsteer type lift on the back of a small dozer and a bit more speed. it would make a small machine a whole lot more versitile. The Dozer would now become a dozer/skidder/mulcher/loader.
Most cat equipment with the waste handler package comes with bellypan actuators. The pans are bolted in place but then pivot on a hinge and are lowered by a electric actuator after the bolts are removed. Either switches mounted with the hood switch or a remote on a long cord. These are actually more of a pain because they don't work, are seize or have been disconnected. So now when you remove the pans you have to assume they are disconnected and hook up the chain or use a jack.
How about a nice tall cab so you can get in and out easier with cupholders and lunc box holders and on the 6 way blades extend them another 2' so you can get more angle out of them to windrow material more efficiently. lights whats with the $20 lights i hate them it gets cold and they break off, they suck because they arent powerful enough to see infront of the machine most nights. 12v outlets please i need one for my phone and the other for my sat radio ! Make a factory port for adding other electronics such as 2 way radios without haveing to wire a inverter in Glass keep it big and cheap i dont need to buy a 1000 dollar piece of glass for the door with those holes in it let me get it from a glass shop or atleast make a factory window cover that is easy to put on not those dumb steel plates
Seems to me that the after-market would beat the manufactures to the punch by offering replacement hinged belly pans. I would think there would be opportunity & a large market many older machines have sprung / bent pans.
I thinking the other night int he light rain & dust while on the 11 backing up a 15 degree slop having the mud run down the front window why not have a gutter to stop this also why not make the engine oil dip stick 6 inches longer so a little easier to put back in the dark overall very happy bout all I would change some may have other ideas.
Yair...about belly pans. I like to make them hinged on one side. No big deal to lift them up then and it encourages keeping crud cleared away from around sump. First off though with the old 9G's (rigged up for scrub pulling) I welded lugs onto the pan at the ballance point and lifted it with a couple of purpose built slings attached to the head of the blade lift rams...that is to say I raised the pan into place by lowering the blade.
Sompthing i always wanted to see is a u/c ejector so you dont have to shovel as much muck. I love the winch on the belly pan, But what happens if the winch seases when the pan is up, even a broken wire? you may have to torch the thing off
My ultimate dozer would be: 12' blade 200+ hp engine with close to 10L displacement hydrostatic transmission LARGE radiator and oil cooler (and not side by side like JD does it) with large fins. Both mounted on brackets with roller bearings, and both can be pulled out in the field quickly for cleaning when conditions warrant. Pressurized cab similar to that of modern ag equipment. A little roomier, with room for stuff, a buddy seat, and a 12v cooler. Air ride seat with control console mounted to the seat, not the cab. PLENTY of bright lights, and good backlighting on everything in the cab. Sloped hood and operator seated up on the dozer near the rear for good forward visibility, and unobstructed rearward visibility. Shields and belly pans that are easy to open and remove. Easy to remove cab and hood when access through the shields is not enough.
I will put my 2 pence into the mix, and would love a response from some Cat person! Put proper tiedown points on all machines that allow a chain WITH THE HOOK ATTACHED to pass through! The 2 recent machines I have fought with this on are a D6N and a 320B. On the D6N there were nice loops on the front and rear of the track frames, but they were too small to pass a standard 3/8" grab hook. I had to remove the hooks in order to use the chains through. I know most people probably don't use them, but I was trying to follow the tie-down rules as enforced in CA and needed more points! The 320 has some good points in the web between the tracks, but again, it is just barely too small to pass a chain through. You either have to pull hooks or use shackles (which aren't always available to poor truck drivers). Oh, and on the smaller equipment like Backhoes, if the tie-down is a welded-on loop (as opposed to a hole in a thick plate), make the metal thin enough that a 5/16" grab hook can hook on. And on the back of the 436C (etc), put some tie-down holes in by the outriggers. The ones in the swing mount are too close to the center making things less stable, you can't reach them from the ground on a taller trailer, and they take a lot more chain. (Our JD 410 I can do a 6 point tie-down [bucket, 4 corners, hoe] with 3 chains and 6 binders but it takes 5 chains for the same pattern on the 436 due to the location of the tie-down points) Oh, and make some sort of latch to hold the outriggers up. A plate/slot/pin would be great, or some sort of hook. I got an old JCB TLB on the ranch here that has some nice swing down outrigger latches. I got tired of heavy long chains and binders or ratchet straps, so I grabbed about 10 feet of some small gauge chain with about a 500# rating and use some spring links to hook it between the outriggers. It saves me a lot of time and energy, but it should still be built in since everyone is supposed to mechanically secure them! How hard would it really be to provide better options for tiedowns? My question to Cat is, why were they sized too small like that? Was it done on purpose? My other thing would be designing things so that dust and mud tend to shed or are easy to clean, since I never seem to get operators that clean before it gets hauled, and I never seem to get bosses that plan my time to clean all the nooks and crannies packed full of dust. Make it so either it's easy to clean, or the dirt is secure enough for transport! (and to think my wish list for tie-downs was that long, be glad I haven't spent much time operating newer dozers! I assume a lot has been improved since the D9H's I ran...
I think it would be neat to have some sort of slope gauge on a dozer. It would be cool to run a dozer on a slope and tell exactly if its 3:1 or so on.
How about a dozer that Makes alot of noise,blows black smoke and you come home at the end of the day feeling like you realy worked as hard as your machine... I truely miss the smell of raw black smoke first thing in the morning when i used to fire up a old machine, it gives me a rush to start my day when i go start my 850c and smell a little black smoke and listen to that great sound that comes out of that 5'' chrome stack !
hey ocr this may help grab a large(not to big) trolly jack cheap ones are fine rip off the rotatable lifting point and replace the cup with a 10''x10''x3/4 plate obviously welding the pin to the center it worked well for me hope it will for you
Ran a d-5k not long ago. The balance of the machine was nice and the power was ok. My problem is that cat seems to be making these dozers way to sophisticated. Do you really need to be able to adjust the speed of the hydrolics in the blade or the tracks when crowding or turning. Keep it simple like the older machines and a good operater will find a way to make the ol girl grunt.
I had some chains made up.About six ft long with a grab hook on one end and a slip hook on the other.Slip hook fit those Cat tie downs just right.Slip hooks make tie downs easier and faster.
Buckeyebarton you are correct. The problem is that Caterpillar and all of the rest of the manufacturers are hiring way to many software engineers. None of them have ever been on a machine and know nothing about them. All they see is the amount of capacity in the computer that is being put on the machine. Now they have to write software to fill it. Was on a Caterpillar tour in Peoria a couple of years ago next month. Asked that question. All I got was basically a dumb stare when I told him that one operator I have would spend his whole day fooling with the hydraulics speed and waste ten times as much time as he would save with adustable speed. The rest of the guys would never touch it. If I had a machine with it on it I would have it disabled so as not to tempt anyone. Oh ya, sooner or later it is going to quit working and than what do we do? We pay through the teeth to get the da-- thing reprogramed.
HOW about a dozer that is built 100% in america,, with american parts!!! I have two D-8T's and a D-7R and cannot believe how many parts on these machines are stamped "" MADE IN CHINA""
how about cat starting to build brand new d6c again. new production and no electronics to mess with.
The ultimate medium dozer...I thought there was already a such called the Deere 700J? :roll I believe the power to weight ratio is awesome, adjustable hydraulic responsiveness, can counter-rotate the tracks if you are in a tight spot, really quiet in the cab, lunch box and drink holders, 12v plugs, easy to see blade from cab, can do some impressive finishing work with the 6-way blade (10' blade, not sure about 11' blade), has great balance to me with the winch option, work lights are pretty impressive (has place to add 2 more front mounts with the SWEEPS option to make it perfect), everything is easy to grease and check fluids, belly pans are fairly easy to pull. This is on a LGP model with 24" tracks which can go to 30" pads in the future if need be. Now it could use a better radio w/ sirius satellite radio and a remote control, but I am not the type to complain. Justin
Caterpillar D6T series1
The Best Reply So Far
Another Great Reply. (A D4d as well would be good)
hello, i once come across somthing like this but i, think is funny but and now i understand that environment is the best teacher. i run a d6r series 2 with c9 engine for almost a decade nd now am having alot of problems with it inwhich some times i had odered a parts from abroad which is a waste of time so i decided to change the engine with 3306 DI, do you guys have any idea about what am trying to do.
I would like 2 c a d7 with a pendualating under carriage and slope meter not just left and right percentage but also ford and back big enough so as we know 4 sure wat gradient we are on when doing batter work have made my own like a crude batter board in the cab but a proper made thing how good would that b
To me it's all a matter of budget, there are such beautiful rigs out there and, to me as an operator with low budget I would get one of the Kobelco type of thing, used, cheap, reliable with good worldwide support (almost), some like this: http://www.italiantrivelle.com/cons...lldozers/fiat-kobelco-d150-2003-used-395.html But, if I am a good earnings company I would go with the best, CAT or Hitachi, like this one but new or D6: http://www.italiantrivelle.com/cons...lldozers/caterpillar-d4-h-overhauled-384.html Also Hitachi makes interesting machines to me. Cheers!
Yep, I understand completely, my suggestion would be order a new c9 put it in and go back to work, or trade for a strait d6r. The wheel is already round, don't try to reinvent it, ben there, done that, my 2 cents
D6C = bulletproof, 1st dozer i operated at the age of 10
Install some type of electro magnetic field that travels through entire machine not effecting any electrical components or producing any type of shock, only to repel water away from all metal therefore solving plugged tracks, rust and frozen dirt on blade.
Steve, I am a new member to the forum and would like to know how do I post a question to the members. I am doing this post as a "reply" to your post since I do not know otherwise! and while I am at it, here is my question: I am trying to find out the year of a CAT D6H-LGP DOZER and the serial # is 3YG00363
DOD May 10 1988
Yup. My vote for best Cat dozer ever. Especially the late model 6C's. Bet they would sell a few if they were to build them. Cheers LB
I figure Cat would if they could but it wouldn't meet Tier standards for emissions.:cool2
my idea of a great mid size dozer would be: 3306 tier zero all mechanical motor @200 hp high track finals, 12' semi u blade 45000# working weight w/ripper 28" pads xl tracks so you could use a two axle lowboy to move powershift with a lockup torque convertor that would unlock at low throttle for inching around, also with no e controls. a real soundproofed cab that you can see out of.
No, actually they would not. They offer repowerpackages for some 'newer' older machines...so that they can meet emmisions. It wouldn't be difficult to dig out an old design, change a few mounts and panels, and accomodate this type of wish. But, they'll never do it. Do some research on the type of machines they are offering in India and some of the other eastern countries with Tier 2 emmissions, presently. You'll find significantly less machine and cab electronics where there are little/no mechanics/techs able to service the more complicated modern machines we have here. Small operations and/or folks who try to do their own maintenance and rebuilds would strongly prefer these 3rd world machines, but you'll not find them here. Sad....
My dream dozer would be a Komatsu D85ex-15 which may be a little big but you can do small jobs as well as large one. Would be fitted with a air cab, heavy duty cannopy and cab guarding and sweeps, bull tilt blade with tree pusher. Would have a komatsu winch because they pull well and are built heavy. Anyway Dads knows someone who has owned a few dozers and the komatsu D85ex is the best machine he has ever had. He has owns a Komatsu D60E-8 like dads which has been teriffic machine for Dad. 2x Komatsu D65EX-15, owned a Cat D7G and not sure what else.
I'm pleased with the progress that (Cat) well, all have made. I'm old school and...for the most part still like open cab w/ROPS and sweeps. Yes Sir, I' ran my first High track (D-8N) and fell in love with the ride, yes, and speed. Beat the hell out of that 46A and D-8k that I ran for many years. The company bought me a D9-R and yes, I was in love...of course it had a U-Blade. Wouldn't own a straight unless it was a 6-way. Think back to...what was it, the D-6c or d model Cat, blade control up by your arm pit? What about the hour meters hidden underneath the floor boards?? All the high tracks that I've run (many) the seat is at an angle to make easier to rip (2 or 4 barrel). Enclosed cabs have their place, I acknowledge that (again, loved that D-9R) however, if one needs to step away before it rolls (happened to me on an 8-H)...easy, off the uphill side track and I'm outahere. I ran a D-11N model and when summer time came around they would never get Cat or??? to fix the A/C. I told them one day, we need to fix it soon or, it's gonna be open cabbed. They drug their feet (called my bluff) and I took off the doors (yep, cut the water line and wires to the wipers)...still hotter than a bitch so, I went back and took out the back window. Sorry, it cracked upon removal but, I had a great comfortable afternoon of pushing. You're right!!!!! the owners were pissed X 10 but, they fixed the A/C!!
Right on!!!!! Love the 46A, tougher than nails she is. U-blade and 2 barrel rippers, spent many years on em. Beat that new 8k all to hell...it couldn't take the extra 20 hp. Great way to go with that spacer plate...a quick 20hp!!!!
Steering combined brake prombem D6d The steering and brakes are combine and was wondering if when you pulled the steering cluch lever the valve dumped the brake pressure or applied presure?
Volvo L180 G-series wheel loader fitted with a 5.8m3 rehandling bucket that is optimized in shape and larger than the 4.6m3 general purpose bucket. This, coupled with the boom suspension and rehandling counterweight, provides faster filling times, a higher fill factor and up to 10% improved fuel efficiency.
As a former logging road builder in Upper Michigan I always thought a high drive dozer with an up/down adjustable drive sprocket height and equipped with track adjusters and lower roll frame that would extend when ever the sprocket is lowered so the tracks could extend or retract depending on the ground situation. I know it's a little far fetched but if you never ask.......
Ive been wanting to post here for a while, but didn't figure I had enough experience credit. But there are some things that need to change to bring dozers into the modern world. Ag tractors have a load of features that make life easier for the operator/ tech. I suspect its because the guy who runs and fixes it, also makes the payment. So convenience features drive sales. To begin with, the cab has to go. I'm not a big guy, but getting in and out is still a head bashing, hip pounding experience. Its a relief to finally reach the seat where its safe. Oh crap, I forgot to turn on the electric disconnect.... Biggen the cab. Find another place for the bats and hyd system, push the sides out, fill the space with ballistic glass. Get a training seat inside. Another great feature of ag tractor cabs is how the doors fit at the floor. The cab floor is high in the centre, and slopes down to the doors. When you open the door you create an unobstructed path for dirt and mud to fall out. The cab floor cleans itself. Brilliant! Visibility! Considering the level of safety awareness in the industry, its hard to believe the cab is still allowed. Day 1 training with new guys at my place involves putting them in the seat and showing them how little visibility there is. Men working near the dozer are in mortal danger because the operator simply cant see them. Way too much steel in the cab frame, rops, etc etc etc. Add a couple monitors and the gets way worse. I realize the cab is intended to last as long as the frame, and it takes a pounding from the type of work dozers get into. But for every guy who needs protection from flying debris, trees, falling objects, and objects flung up by the tracks, there are 100 guys wishing they could see the blade better, or had a place for a lunch cooler. Mine has an eco valve on the trans oil dump. There has to be a better way. It takes too many hours to drain cold oil out of that hole. Make it bigger or something. The hydraulic oil tank drain is over the track shoe. Works great for oiling the tracks, but not for getting the oil into a drain bucket. I concur with others. Brakes work like hitting a bridge abutment. They've been using brakes on things for a few years now, and they generally modulate pretty well. Swing out radiators for cleaning. Such an easy idea its hard to believe its not in place already. Belly pans that remove themselves. Not rocket science either. Pickup truck spare tires have a hand crank winch for lowering and lifting the tire into position... On the plus side is the high drive. Cleaning tracks is so easy. Getting the finals out of the dirt. Makes too much sense. Might cost a little more, but I think its worth it. I like how they standardized to one size wrench. The other day we removed both tracks, installed new idlers, new carrier roller, new cutting edges, all with one socket. Nice. Diff steer works great. Tiller handle is intuitive. Those are some of my ideas anyway. Nothing that hasn't been said before...
backup camera,seat might be shifted a bit on cats but still hurts my kneck after bouncing around all day,should be standard,they are only 240.00 $ been slowly installing them in every thing I have
I listen to all those speaking of newer machines downfalls and tripping points and I see my forty year old Allis is right in there with them. Seems the industry has learned little while making strides in making the machines 'better'.
In one word; Servicability. I've spent my life working on cars, motorcycles and such. When I started to buy and use heavy equipment, I was shocked to see how poorly thought out some aspects of the machines were. In a world where time = money I expected the ability to keep the machine up and running would be a high priority during the design process. Ive' now worked on Cat, Deere, Mack and some cottage industry brands. Inaccessible bolts, seals that you know will go bad over time in locations requiring major disassembly to get at, hoses trapped between two large hard to remove parts, no proper drain points for fluid systems, etc., etc. I could make a list that goes on for pages. There's nothing like reading "Remove ROPS and cab from machine..." as the start of a procedure to replace a simple hydraulic return hose when all it would take is to make the hose 3" longer to clear the cab. It's why older used machines are frequently such a money sink. Once the second or third owner has the machine, they can't / won't service some of the more difficult to do items due to cost or effort. When the machine no longer works right, it gets cleaned up / painted and is put up for sale. In my special hell for the people that create these things, they would spend all day every day fixing 30 year old, extra greasy, rusty, neglected machines on the Alaskan north slope...
I hear ya and feel the same pains. Started off in the industry in 1976, machines have not changed for the better nor for serviceable. I own a '74 Allis, it is as or more serviceable than a comparable Cat or Deere twenty years newer and as far as hydrostats I really think NOT even close. Manufacturers do not care if not serviceable, actually preferring to keep them as far out as tenable so they keep a market share of repair time and good turnover as owners care not to work on their own machines. Many mechanics I worked aside in the 70's gave it up years ago unwilling to keep up with tools changes 'Upgrades' and the incessant training that never met the mark as to teaching how to effectively work on these critters. Pay has not followed garage rates as the impact of hours losses against 'Book time' mounted in the late 80's/90's. Is easy enough to take a new machine, tear it down and reassemble three or five even ten times with all the handy tooling for a given charge time but being in field or after hundreds of hours in soup and muck changes all parameters. Cars and trucks are the same, nothing left to the owners for servicing just maintenance items as lube and oil or filters, everything else is buried alive. Times have changed but not considerations as to expense.
Ferdinand is right, they really make it hard for mechanics to reach those places if they need to be fixed. They just designed it just for the sake of "not our problem anymore once it is sold". lol
I too agree with Ferdinand on most of his points, especially the Paint Job Overhaul machines.
Looking at some of the newer dozers seems like some of these suggestions have been incorporated. Looking at the new Komatsu. Forward cab rear cooling with stacked coolers able to keep clean fairly easy. Great visibility. John Deere has done a lot to improve visibility and operator comfort. Case tried a tilting cab for a series. Then quit doing it. Not sure why seems like a awesome idea. Not sure what cat has done, don't know much about there later machines. Out of my price range. It's crazy how soft we've become compared to 30 years ago. Pretty soon one guy will operate a couple dozers from a office remotely. A lot easier to build a machine that doesn't need a cab to house some bitching operator that doesn't want to show up to work. Not trying to be a pill, I like nice comfortable stuff as much as the next guy. But there's a point we're you have to be able to afford it. And afford to maintain all this fancy stuff. We don't have the option to buy simple stuff any more. If you can find something simple it's some no name import crap that you can't get parts for. Every farmer and rancher used to own a dozer and grader just to mantian there roads. They were simple machines that lasted a lifetime that they could afford to buy. Now the fancy machines cost more than you can afford to buy and if they last ten years the plastic and wiring is rotten. Better have a good banker and just keep financing that new fancy machine. These new machines are only good for the bankers and corporations that make them. If they build a machine that is simple and lasts for ever then how would they stay in business. This trend will eventually put operators out of a job. Can't afford to pay a person to operate that fancy machine anymore, it costs to much. Lord help us. We need simpler less complicated cheaper robust machines.
yeah , a lot of those old dozers are still going in NZ , a good D47U sells around K$7500 . Well sort after and tightly held by subsequent generations of family farmers . Simple , two spanner sizes do most jobs . Fancy kung fu D31's have a nasty oil seal that's a major job @ about 4000 hrs . Just so happens a lot of affordable second hand imports come in around 4000 hr mark . I don't think the wheel needs to be reinvented with designing a "new dozer" , they are there now , just not built any more . I have always thought the high track Caterpillar were designed by somebody working for Komatsu , engineered obsolescence . If there has been a peak in excellence in Caterpillar of longevity , cost , simplicity it must surly have been with the D4D , D6D ,D7G , D8K and the D9H . I had not forgotten the D5 , just don't see it measured up .
I hear the new D65EX Komatsu dozers are tough to beat
Looks to be a cloned 850K Deere depending on the drive train. I will stick with the old junk.
I agree with DMiller. I will stick with the old junk. What ever happened to the old TD-15 B, where it had an optional roll cage, a 140,000 pound winch, and 1 button to start the dang thing, and 2 switches, a kill switch, and a switch for the lights. The new junk, as Magard says, lasts 10 years, if you're lucky, and don't screw anything up. The new machines have climate control, DEF, satellite trackers, radios, on board diagnostics systems with 48 independent computers, and laser planning software. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS WAY?!?!These old machines, they last FOREVER, and you couldn't kill that thing if you buried it in the ground for 10 years. What about the small rancher who doesn't need a $450,000 piece of plastic, but needs a powerful machine to do some digging, move some trees, or knock down an old building?
I agree with Ferdinand. In MY special Hell, I would put them in the middle of the North Slope, in a crappily built shop that leaks heat, waiting a month to get a specialty part, no manuals, no computers, and no specialty tools, with a long line of dozers and angry operators waiting fpr their machine to be fixed while work goes on without them on the TAPS*, which is costing the repair shop money, and the operators. *=(Trans-Alaska Pipeline System. Google it.)
OK to ship some car/light truck designers to the special hell?
heck yeah!
It's crazy to think that if you've been around for 25 years or more, you can almost pinpoint the high tide mark in pretty much all things mechanical. The point at which, in later models 1 small lever was replaced with a choice of 5 buttons & 6 solenoids, where you couldn't see the engine for all the gizmos plastic clipped around it. Somewhere in the late '80's was the rough time it happened. There are still some nice machines turned out before tier 3 that seem beautifully bombproof compared to the latest highly technical, incredibly expensive, very weak offerings. Apologies, been quite a day and on 2nd beer just before dinner.. Ps. Crook donks d9h gets my vote!
80's were bad, lots of manufacturer sell outs/mergers/cloning and converting that all in all failed miserably, then the 90's sort of settled out with 953B and other almost electronic crawlers the Liebherr Deere combination almost complete then the 2000's and all hell again with the D series loaders, absolute low hour fall apart crap, high dollar replacement parts that were scarce and then a few getting reman'd that did not last, now we are in tier 4 looking at the next run of crap to come out and Shantui Crawlers are becoming the rage, clones of lesser grade whatever in the hell they can make work together. Not good, not at all good.
I agree machines aren't easy to work on and even some older machines were hard to work on depending on what repair was needed. That said, sometimes it is very difficult to make things easier to service because of space limitations, size of components, etc. My dad sold sold turf equipment for years and listened to a lot of mechanics complaints. Some were legit, like putting a pipe extension on an oil drain so it didn't run all over the frame. My dad had enough clout in the industry he called the factory and had this change incorporated. On the other hand he said if you tried to build a machine with everything the mechanics and operators complained about fixed, you wouldn't be able to build that machine. It would be an over engineered piece of crap.
What I do not get as to the newer hard to work on equipment is the engineers still do not go talk with the field as to most common failures and what to do to make those easier to work. Rerouting lines, electrical, not burying soft target components well out of reach when they can be mounted exposed. And a lack or considered waste of time for allowance to do so is no response as to companies wanting to sell a quality machine. General Dynamics can build a Abrams war machine three guys can change an entire power pack in under four hours, engineering at HE builders can improve their machines further than they have.
Dealer support. If the manufacturer builds a machine that we all could work on. Then why would the dealer need machanics. Dealers have to be making good money of the shops. Think about all the return business they get. I thought the case dozers with the tilt over cab was a good step in the direction of making them easier to work on. But they stoped doing it. To expensive to build and hurts the dealer. Even if you take it to the dealer to get worked on it still shortens the job time to fix which hurts the dealer.
Unfortunately for dealers, shop work hasn't been as lucrative as most people seem to think in the last ten to fifteen years. Good dealer mechanics are not easy to come by and customers are always picking them out of the dealerships offering a few more dollars per hour and some autonomy on how service and repair work is accomplished. The issue with design comes from the government with legislated systems being bolted on top already crammed engine compartments. You have to try to make the machine look good after that so more sheet metal is bolted on top. That's more a point on how or if you voted in elections twenty years ago. Yes there are a lot of aspects now on machines that make it different and needing new skills to troubleshoot and repair them. But back when I started the issues were much the same. Gear and vane hydraulic pumps that lasted about 2,500 hours, diesel engines that needed an in frame at 4,000 to 5,000 hours. I worked on a Hough loader one time trying to change a starter. Because of the frame clearance I had to unbolt the engine and lift it with a crane just to get the starter out. I don't need a hundred ton press to remove a sprocket from a dozer anymore. They did away with the pancake press rigs and all the special brackets when working on steering clutches and final drives. I can change control patterns in excavators now without having to cut up the bell cranks and rods underneath the cab. Motors in an excavator can be swapped out in about a day and half by one person with a service truck mounted crane. I don't often need to use a multiplier and big torque wrench when the hydraulic wrench is available. My point in all this comes from the perspective of looking back over forty years of making a living in this industry. I'll take a computer, harness connector and some software any day over five foot long bars, twenty pound hammers, fifty ton jacks and hundred ton presses. If the job was easy anybody could do it. No one says you have to buy a machine and when you do you have to accept it for what it is.
In its day, a D7E D339 75E military version dozer. Not fast but certain and reliable well balanced machine. Whatever you put in front of the machine it would reach down and grunt throwing the four paint can size pistons to the work.
oh, yeah! Just like the TD15B
You still needed to find someone with the expensive hydraulic pullers to touch the final drives on those models. That design was out of date when Cat was still plugging along with them. International had planetary final drives and a track frame pivot shaft not connected to the final drives out for decades before Caterpillar borrowed that idea.
That's true about the puller's , its the only job I have had a mechanic do on any of my dozers in nearly 40 years , bugged me . I think though that the pullers will still be used on the old D7's in fifty years when they dig the grave's for the new model D7E , such is progress .
I was the proud operator of a new D7r many back in 1998. I was annal about taking care of it.bear in mind i am not current with what new machines come with. But I think it would be helpful if they had a display simular to my chevy silverado that tells how much oil life is left, and maybe warn the operator if the tracks are out of adjustment, or something is not working properly. It would also help to see how efficient you are operating and have the computer score you! Cat and other manufacterers should have and app that makes it easy to order parts and remind when services are needed. I am currently a truck driver but still have a passion for heavy equipment. I am biased in favour of cat dozers and loaders because they are the product of many years of research and improvements.
Sounds like spending more up front money for something that a decent operator would not need. Easy to check the oil hours written on the filter when you grease it and check oil. A operator would soon know the tracks are out of line by the wear marks on the rollers and other undercarriage parts. You see this when you clean the tracks. What would you do if the dash told you the tracks are out of alignment? There is no adjustment screw. Bent dead axles do not fix themselves. Make them with less BS options and lessen the problems is my idea of a better machine.
Manufacterers need to look To start with the tracks are adjusted by tension. If they are too tight the pins rollers and idlers wear out faster. Cat started oil analysis back in the 1990's because you cant just rely on hours. As oil got more expensive it made sense to test it before changing 50 something gallons of transmission oil for example, on my D7r. If a $40k pickup can justify having fancy Technologies to aid in taking care of it then how much more an expensive dozer. Cat dont mind just selling you the parts as you know. I have been away from it for awhile but the undercarrage represents about 1/3 of the cost of maintaining a dozer. So track adjustment/ tension is crucial. Most under carriage wear happens when you are backing up because the tension is redistributed across the top sprocket and front idler. So it qould would more than pay for itself to have a built in analysis of oil condition/life and operator efficiency, like my pickup has.
Machines are already Technology overloaded, need to get them simplified and less prone to failure of the 'Extra' **** then can use them when in a iffy stage just to get by for a day longer as weather or situations arise. Used to see old machines leaking like had bore holes in them or metal flakes showing in oil, owners fed them oil or had good operators that knew to back off some until that rainy day to repair where now a machine with tender electronics gets a weak solenoid or a bad signal due to a slight amount of corrosion and the iron lawn ornament will not work, not good.
You fight until die but computers are already in just about every hight dollar machine and will only get more envolved. Agree or not the technology aspect will continue to advance. So may as well join them and figure out how to make it save you down time and money. I do understand that a good operator is the main key to preserving equipment. A display may not make sense but a simple warning light could makes you investigate what is happening a little sooner. It is a good conversation to have.
When you need a pocket cheat notebook as to codes, coding and how to trip the code repeater then the machine is TOO excess electronic. Cat, Deere, Liebherr and the others all onboard with these high tech marvels of wasted mechanisms are seeing why that is in the loss of demand in foreign nations where the availability of mechanics able to diagnose such mechanisms is at a premium(IE S. AM, Africa, SE Asia) They do not take the surplus machines as was once done in the past where the power company boom trucks sit in lots with few buyers, the heavy equipment prices are dropping on the later machines while the older straight forward mechanicals are still demanding high dollar worn slick. Technology may advance but where it is unnecessary the market dries up. The machines may become the wave of the future in the other lands as time moves on and the availability of the old machines also dries up but the prices will reflect that. Good friend and neighbor, excavator on the side just bought a used 953D, spent $55,000 to get a machine originally listed at $84000. Had been sitting on a lot for some time, had a fault code and a warning light that would not go out. Guy was tired of it not moving(two years ONE looker) and had been frustrated on the storage. Guy bought it, spent a little time ended up buying a reman drive joystick for $4600 and cleared the code. Took two weeks of winter spare moments to find the issue going thru every wire and all the resistance checks. He fully expects this monster to be a electronics mess as was never taken care of but was cheaper than buying a 953B in decent shape that is already almost 20 years old.
A quick question for the electronics suggestions. Just how do you think you could integrate some kind of electronics into the machine that could measure an undercarriage? Second thought is that oil analysis is not the be all that you are thinking and was really introduced in the marine industry as a way to check fluids in machines running super high hours with long amounts of time between shut downs. I saw that program started by the US government in 1972 when I was in the USN. It started long before then and Caterpillar had nothing to do with it back then. The issue was one of insurance. A main propulsion engine goes down, a ship might be stopped at sea with possible catastrophic consequences. The program was sold as insurance to those ashore running machines in large fleets and I know from a factual basis that just changing fluids on the manufacturer's specified intervals that the oil analysis program is for the most part a waste of money. With that in mind just how much money do you think it would cost to add that function to the capital cost of the machine? On the other side of the issue is you putting that information in the hands of the people who have every incentive to find ways to charge you more money? That is really what electronics and telematics is all about. Put all that stuff on a running machine bouncing through the rocks and debris with a operator that doesn't speak english and tell me how long it might work and how much it will cost. As far as warning lights and buzzers go I don't have enough fingers and toes to tell you how many times I've seen warning lights with black tape over them and buzzers disconnected or physically broken. The computer revolution is all about replacing operators, not enhancing their abilities.
^Exactly Give me bombproof, well laid out, durable machinery please future manufacturers. Less sensors, computers, sensitive wiring looms, built in nail varnish stations, abs, traction controls, ... Operating since the 80's puts a foot in both camps, machines that had oil pressure gauges on the dash got replaced by a red bulb, then later with fault codes. I preferred the pressure gauge. Then there are the checks an operator should make including walking round machine having a look, saggy tracks are easy to spot, other components you can cast your eye over when pulling the dirt off the track frame each shift. It baffles me that anyone would want more complicated technology stuck on when it all seems over the top already. I appreciate everyone has different views, but there doesn't seem to be choice, it's all super hi tech or nothing. I'm all for the advances we've seen over the years in things like better braking, differential steering, pilot controls instead of long levers, powershifts etc. Rant over
Cat's Latest >MORE HIGH TECH< DOZERS D6XE Electric Motor Drive w/diff steer D6-D6XE All new replacement for D6T series D6XE https://youtu.be/26wZnyD__vE
Ever closer to a Battery or Fuel cell power source machine.
A friend that is a Finning mechanic in was at the unveiling in Los Vegas last week and got to run one of these. He was quite pumped up about it, but then he is young enough to be very computer savvy.
2nd link
I just still do not see the necessity to electrify a machine with an engine in it for motive power, is NOT like a train with need of multiple drive motors to make better tractive effort.
The D7E wasn't highly thought of when it came out and I only remember one that came into my area of Washington State. I don't know if it was ever purchased. There was also the issue of the electrical system retaining a charge after the engine was shut down. You needed to go through a procedure to discharge the electricity before working on anything or you could get slapped real hard for touching the wrong thing. As I recall the price of the D7E was nearly the same as the D8T. I have to wonder how much time the D6E has to achieve specified sales numbers before a decision is made to keep it or toss it out.
Called Degaussing just as with the old PC screens, have to rid the residual stored charge or the incidental contact could flatten you. Started decades ago with Submarines and naval surface vessels with tons of electronics.
The ship I was on did degaussing to eliminate the magnetic signature of the vessel. It made it harder for torpedoes to know who you were and when to detonate. There was no static charge to drain away. The Cat people told me their electric system retained a charge across the motors and other components and there was a switch on the machine and a procedure for draining that charge away. When I asked why that wasn't something automatically done they didn't have an answer.
There's a debate over which mining trucks are better, electric or mechanical. Big wheel loaders are electric or mechanical drive. I think you'd have to take 2 machines and work them in the same conditions and see which is less expensive to operate and maintain over a long period and also which one would have economically the longest life span.
Cat shipped 500th D7E electric Oct 2012 Claims 1.4million gallons of fuel saved “With diesel over $3.50 a gallon in the U.S. and even higher in Europe, that’s several million dollars going directly to our customers’ bottom lines,” said Scott Johnson, worldwide tractor product manager. “This financial benefit, as well as the corresponding reduction in emissions, will compound as field population continues to grow.” Ref: https://www.cat.com/en_US/news/mach...00thd7etracktypetractorwithelectricdrive.html Cat & Volvo, Komatsu Hybrids, excavators, wheel loaders mostly about reduced fuel burn. Personally I'd like freeze @ R-series dozers. Electronic engines are okay, additional electronics just add to 'more stuff to go wrong'. High Drives are bullet proof, D6H diff steer typically goes of 20K hrs without touching internals, ditto engine, torque and trans. No special care, just oil changes per Cat spec's and S.O.S occasionally. My 1st experience with Cat S.O.S was mid-70s. Cat dealer used re-chromed crankshaft in D342-46A engine. S.O.S results keep showing high-iron. Receive phone call, 'check oil pump', check this, check that Remedy, pull engine, remove crankshaft, grind to 0.050" undersized> problem solved @ my customer's expense (again). I inherited representing customers' $$$ interest from my dad, *** screw ups caused by dealers' people. Good talent gets hired by local contractors who pay higher wages. Off-topic (large dozer) article about repowering economics versus purchasing new form 2012. 2012 repowers were on hold due to lack of Gov grant funding. https://www.constructionequipment.com/cat-d11-repower-doubles-machine-life
Cat claims a lot of things that may or may not be enhanced, open to interpretation or might be out right lies. Everyone is claiming more efficient fuel consumption and their interpretations of why their machines are better. I believe data from end users over anything a manufacturer's marketing department wants to broadcast to the world. Chances are most of those 500 D7E tractors are demo models and in dealer rental fleets because they couldn't be sold at those price levels.
With all the fuel Efficiency claims we should be sending fuel BACK to the refineries!!
Was an electro-magnetic signature(magnetic Field), have to discharge or induce a counter current to that electrical signal to get rid of it. We had issues at the plant with retained electrical signatures(Induced voltages) where we had to ground EVERYTHING, our electricians referred to it as degaussing.
Of course manufactures hype their products. Data from Product Link shows 'less fuel burn-reduced operating cost per hour' for large scrapers repowered with C18,C15s (versus 3412,3408Es) per Dave Peed who owns/operates over 100 57Es though out the US and Canada. Per Construction Mag survey only 30% (my memory?) of Product Link users are monitoring fuel usage. When you take of your footwear, we're grounded to the earth; the way our genetic design was intended, original degaussing.
That's fine for Mr. Peed and 57E machines. How many D7E machines is he running and what are those costs. Repair and down time costs are never backed up with facts in marketing materials. I haven't seen where they were tracked in Product Link either. I was warned about being the grounding path to earth when doing an inspection on a D7E. Thinking about a heart suddenly stopping or burned internal organs is a nightmare I don't want to experience.
We had a line worker that ignored a Ground Everything rule, reached up and grabbed at a 'Pothead'(transformer connection) where a DC induced voltage discharged to HIM, he died. The ability for electrical high tension cables swinging in the wind to undergo a field from the Earth and develop a induced voltage/current potential is pretty scary. We had large electric motors at the plant we physically grounded all phases to keep them from building current like a ignition coil Supersized. On these machines one would have to be Mechanic, Electrician, and have high voltage safety equipment to work on them. Anything over 300v ac or dc was considered as High Voltage under OSHA and NFPA.
With all these descriptions of unfortunate accidents what comes to mind is Wile E. Coyote getting smoked by some ACME invention and Road Runner going Beep Beep and he disappears in a puff of smoke.
Repair/downtime in marketing materials, all I've seen is grand total test hours, not specific item caused downtime. Cat service adviser shows how-many events, improved part(s), engineering approved work-arounds etc. Current Cat equipment receive wireless update ECM flashing from Cat support. Product Link, subscription > Essentials > option > 10 minute cycle notifications with instant engine off/on alerts and instant events-fault code alerts can be used to track (and record) non scheduled downtime/repairs. Alerts via direct email or text messages and dealer support contact. How this works in the real-world, 'sit down for lunch in Irvine, Calif with Peed sub-employee-welder-Rick' just back from Canada...discussing Product Link. Rick, 'yep received phone call 57-39 low fuel pressure, change fuel filters', developing problem resolved. If fuel filter clogging is a trend, then corrective action needed to be taken with the re-fueling equipments' filtering. Telemetry (Product Link > Cat ET etc) are diagnostic tools used to prevent non scheduled downtime. Cat Diff Steering D6 mid-sized dozers / D8 sized steering > plus D10 sized planetary finals. Cat's Diff Steer is a hydrostatic steering system that doesn't reduce power to the tracks while turning; i.e. beats the competitions' hydrostatic motor drives during side-by-side comparisons tests. (Ref: video link below) AND is not affected by system wide hydraulic micro erosion wear requiring expensive multiple component replacements. Patent US 4434680A https://patents.google.com/patent/US4434680A/en New D8T video, read 1st commenters reply >Roger Meeker, "Trust me, if I could find an impartial firm to perform a scientific study like we do....I would definitely do it!" Well ya, 1) why would an impartial firm absorb the financial cost to perform the side by side testings? 2) Hey, John Deere, "give me a new 1050K on the market for 3yrs to side-by-side test against Cat's New D8T" Scientific Study: 1) can be replicated 2) can be falsified; results could not be replicated using the same testing methods I would not purchase or recommend purchasing any of the OEM's newly released models for 2.5-3 years, until the bugs are sorted out or junk label is applied. PS: Video @ 1:46 notice cutting edge arrangement, e.g. different angles @ outer edges that direct material more efficiently to improve productivity. Similar to Australian invented SpadeBlade without infringing patents.
Nice video from marketing but how about doing a study to a comparable machine. Maybe a Komatsu 155AX. I was working on Komatsu differential steering in 1993 on D65EX and PX machines. It isn't anything new. You have brought up a salient point though that hasn't been addressed anywhere. While working at a Cat dealer I saw that Product Link was an option and was only good for a year on a new machine and had a big extra charge to keep it going. Even the rental company had to pay to have it installed on new machines. Very few companies would pay the subscription. I'm pretty sure it is standard now but at what price added to the new machine. I know both the Deere and Komatsu dealers keep telematics on for the life of the machine without an extra fee. I don't know if they would go fix it if something went wrong with it. I'm not certain the Cat dealer fix it even under warranty. I absolutely believe in waiting the 2.5 - 3 years on a new model. But lots of bugs show up at 3 - 5 years as well and you get to pay for those on your own. I still say don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see, especially from an entity that stands to gain at your expense.
Side-by-side comparison with Komatsu 155AX, 'per Cat-Roger Meeker, coming soon '...Product video reply 1 month ago. That comparison will interesting, Komatsu lead the race with increasing complexity, e.g. electronic controls and telemetry required to help keep the equipment running. Versus Cat's manual>hydraulic control system (later electric over hydraulic). Cat has dominated production class dozers with low tech 10-11s. Example of Designing Around Existing Patent(s) Cat Diff-steer (patent 1980) is simpler-KISS compared to Komatsu's (1st patent 1993) D65EX-2D15 with HSS. HSS requires complex steering controller, cross shaft-gears etc; i.e. more component parts to wear/break and require additional maintenance/repairs. Cat's early manual tiller/diff steer, electronics = backup alarm switch // replacement parts after 16-18thou hrs (open ROPS) = tiller control shaft's sealed ball bearings, 4ea clevises and pins. Per Komatsu (internal use only) literature their diff-steer design is simpler. Ref: https://vdn.komatsu.eu/new_equipment/displayfile.ashx?fileid=15825 Literature for salespeople to razzle-dazzle potential customers using engineerings' subjective interpretations. Example page 27, dozer arm's cross sectional area (ratio) compared to D7R. D7R arm upper-lower material 25mm compared to D65-14mm; D7R has increased compressive strength. Komatsu (humbled Cat where so many had failed with 'Mura C = surround Cat') Komatsu's historical failing has been less than ideal product support, i.e. parts on back order, can often = parts no longer in production // typical service life to major repairs has been 7500-8500 hours. 1st S. Cal Komatsu dealership MDCO; Demo-rentals with ****-poor service personnel = established bad reputation for reliability/service. Have a rock-job, rent a Komatsu to destroy , that went on early 70s to mid 80s. John, I don't have a answer for you, but out of curiosity I'll find out at later date. Have Hitachi EX1200 line boring job on the hook, $$$$
I sale all sizes of Dozers.
DREAM DOZER https://ma.cat.com/dreamdozer
Brilliant idea. It would help like all the backup cameras and gadgets on the new autos. A CCTV that could take the pummeling may be a challenge? Brilliant!
Companies are going Autonomous or remote operator these days, many are already fitted with multiple cameras as they reduce in size.
Autonomous equals robot? I am old school as far as machinery likes and dislikes. I see the value of technology but am too simple to catch on to circuit boards and complex wiring. Cameras seem pretty simply but I would rather drive and sweat and feel the rumble and scrape of my old dozer rather than have the new rides described in some of the posts here. I am not sure what the ultimate dozer would be like, but like my grandfather used to say, "you gotta like the dog you own and take care of it;its the best one you have". Not quite ready for anything fancy. I would like to try a camera for the rippers though.
I have seen in other threads discussions concerning pure vegetable oil running diesel machinery. I wonder if any of the big manufacturers have seriously considered earth friendly/pocketbook friendly engines run on pure veggie oil? I run pure vegetable oil in my Duramax and have zero complaints for the fre oil I put in with a smile.300,00plus miles to date...)
Have a number of veggie burners around here, only real issue is cold, cloud point too high fuel gets too thick and will not flow. Conventional anti gel additives do not work on the goo.
I heard that Cat is making the cabs a lot easier/faster to pull on the “new” dozers. If so thank God because working through the hell hole in the cab floor goes right to the top of my “this really sucks” list. If I can pull the cab quick and easy instead it will be so much better.
The electric D7 has a tilt cab. Cat has always been kind of late to making things easier for mechanics. Tilt cabs have been standard on other makes for years. I do like the high drive finals and the ability to remove a transmission out the back of the machine rather than pulling pans and dropping it out the bottom.
Id just like to get hydraulic track adjusters on my D7 17a and I think I would be happy as with her. Great machine to do maintenance on everything was made to be pulled apart with ease, and a beaut to operate so long as you have a 15 knot cross wind to get the dust out of your eyes. Also has a nice big seat to crash out on at afternoon smoko time while shes cooling down a bit too
It's been 12 years since I first responded to this tread. 12 more years of all kinds of abuse has worn my body down. I ran my first CAT 2U in 1978. I remember the owner always talked very loudly and walked like a bent up pretzel. He'd tell me to slow down and take it easy on my back. I can remember thinking to myself, " shuddup you grumpy old man. You dont know what you're talking about." Boy was I wrong. So after 42 years of operating, repairing and moving equipment, I gotta say that.. you were right Elmer. I should have listened. Now my only real concern is a comfortable seat and finding a way to easily and safely climb down off of a machine, any machine while I wait to regain feeling in my hands and legs. And to think that once upon a time I used to make fun of those grumpy old timers with their crooked backs and bent legs as I watched them crawl off of their open cab machines. Now I am that grumpy old timer.
We all become those grumpy old men
We all become twisted old men, grumpy is optional.
Cat d6k or a deere 750/700k lgp
I liked the early D5 high track LGPs, I forget the model but Ceccanti had one on Mchchord AFB and I did a lot of prep ahead of the grader crew, during the C17 expansion.
I've got over 10 compression fractures in my back laying in a hospital bed right now. I should have hopped back in the skid steer. LoL I think I should start chain smoking and drinking like fish because some of those grumpy guys live well into their nineties with no serious ailments.
Sounds nasty Dave, did you drop in a hard hole, or an accumulation of holes catching up with you? Good luck bouncing back.
How's it going, Welder Dave? A South Georgia fan 8s asking. Neill
I'm just done. I'm trying to be positive but if I passed away I'm OK with it. Not trying to be negative but it's the honest to god truth. I feel like a paralyzed and sore old man. Just being rid of the pain and uselessness I feel would be a comfort. It's hard to explain. I'm fighting but the thought of no pain not a care in the world and just going to sleep is really refreshing.
Thank you for the reply, Dave. Sometimes its hard for a hard-working person to just relax and let the meds and the medical mechanics do their jobs. We know you have excellent care, so just relax as you can and let them work. If your mind gets too active with worry, try counting to yourself as follows: 10, 1, 9, 2, 8, 3, 7, 4, 6, 5. When you've mastered that, add 10 to each number, then 30. It should bore you to sleep. I use it all the time to de-stress. Neill
Cat D7 by far. Very versatile. Can still do finishing work while doing major ground breaking work at the same time.
I got an opportunity to operate a CAT D5G. It's a smaller machine, but still very powerful. It's handy because you don't need a lowboy trailer to move it around. You can move it to site with a medium duty truck / dump truck and an equipment trailer. I don't have much authority on dozers. This was the first machine I got to operate. I had a blast! Only problem is now I want one! Check it out:
My baby is the CAT D6T, I have logged hundred of hours with her, every chance I get I would be out playing in the dirt. Seth would get mad sometimes cause I be out playing instead in the office working. I am anxious to jump in the D9, it's always out on projects though. One day when it comes back, Id like to take it for a spin out in the back pasture.
A brand new D7G and I’d be very happy ! Best tractor in that range for me!
I don't know if I could put a brand new machine to work. I wouldn't want to scratch the paint! Bring on the old iron! It's all I can afford.
Only new until first scratch, then beat on it like a drum!!!
The perfect medium size dozer for me would have a bogie undercarriage, Load sensing, low effort hydraulic system, comfortable and adjustable air seat, Quite cab with lots of open view, Integrated GPS, hydraulic belly pans, differential steering, super efficient/durable IVT transmission that gets all the power to the ground, High track.
To this day anything Caterpillar & “E” model gets avoided at all cost due to a particular Power Shift D7E that nearly sunk dad. 30 years later & Pops still has the serial in his head from all the trips to Yancey to get that devil back moving. 8 hrs from purchase it got a new engine. 10 hrs later a new transmission. Then a new TC. Then some additional cooler work. And so on & so on until it was on the float to Mobile Bay. We are certain there are some Colombians in Columbia that have a hit out on us due to us selling that machine to a Central American broker who sent it to Columbia. Now here I sit on this rainy Tuesday wanting to buy a TD15E for a good all a rounder & wondering how much pushback I’m going to get on it because it has an E in the model number.
Maybe E stands for expensive?
"CAT" says it is Expensive!!! Machine bought Used or New? What was engine failure from? Trans and TC? A TD15E is about as Orphan as any out of production company machine will be. Sand Plant here has a D7E that looks tired but runs well, serves well and requires little beyond routine maintenance.
It was wore out when he bought it evidently: ran good when they tried it out before buying it but…. That one was a 4 cylinder early power shift machine. Regarding the TD15E, I thought so too but evidently there is TD support moreso than I realized here in the Southeast. I am intrigued. Cummins 8.3 for power & 2 speed steering. I’m trying to find out more.
Regarding a CAT, it sure doesn’t stand for Economical.
It only gets worse when you get into higher letters. Compared to some of the problems you hear about on electronic machines with emissions controls E may stand for economical.
I apprenticed with the Local CAT dealer & was employed by them until the recession of 2008. I believe the dozers from the late 1970s thru the pre-emissions early 2000s were the best overall.
they need to design a dozer that doesn't have computers and tons of sensors and hydraulic pumps and trans pumps and it should have a small gas engine to start first and get the oil flowing and warm and then engage the diesel engine to start it, the blade could run off of cables and a mechanical winch and never blow a hose or cause heating issues and it would have a direct drive trans that would not over heat if maintained.....and it would take real operators that were real men to do the job of operating it,and they could be called cat skinners.....oh,wait a minute, I think it has already been done..lol
ACMOC usuallyHas Cable 6s, 7s, and 8s up for sale, buy up and enjoy!!
Yeah,it was just supposed to be humorous.
I’ve heard said if it’s not a Cat it’s a Dog….. My first Dozer was a 1996 Cat D5C which I picked up in about 2005……. I used it for about 4 years. Cleared land to build fencing, built 4 ponds, cleared pasture land, and then sold it for what I paid for it. I was thrilled to have it, found that I really enjoyed developing land with it, but thought it too expensive a piece of equipment to just have setting around most of the time just so I could go make improvements with it when I wanted to. Then I bought a good size piece of land out in New Mexico against the National Forest and had a big and sudden need for one again. So in late 2018 I picked up a 2013 model Case 650L and oh my goodness, what a difference. I realize that a 2013 Cat would be awesome too. What a pleasure joystick operation is compared to that old foot steer. I could only be on that old thing for 2-3 hours at a time, now all day is no problem….. I picked that Case up with 1780 hours and I’ve got about 2080 on it now and can’t think of anything I’d change on it (well, other than closed cab) as I just really enjoy the ease and speed at which I get things accomplished…..But that’s in a personal use capacity. I’m sure if I was a contractor and using it to make money, I’d want a lot of things different…..
HELLO I WORKING ON A D6 R CATERPILLAR DOZER. THE FUEL PUMP IS NOT PUMPING FUEL IN THE ENGINE. DUE TO THIS THE OIL PRESSURE ECPLODED THE HEAD TWICE. WE CHANGED THE HEAD AND ALSO THE INJECTION NOZLES. NOW THE ESM IS NOT SIGNALING THE FUEL PUMP TO SUPPLY FUEL TO THE ENGINE. THE BOOST PRESSURE IS ALWAYS ZERO. THE ENGINE IS CRANKING AND TAKES OFF UNITL THE CYLINDERS DONT HAVE THE FUEL, SO THE ENGINE SHUTS OFF. PLEASE RECOMMEND SOME IDEAS DIAGNOSIS FOR ENGINE RUNNING.
Don't use all caps. It's considered yelling and you should have started a new thread with your questions.
Mine is d8k .No electrics
Only mecanics
D8R