This is on the same thought as the Medium Dozer thread. What would you operators like to see on a D4 or smaller sized dozer if you were designing it?
A nice, long and wide footprint. A blade that is wider than the tracks when angled. An actual power shift three speed trans and a real deaccelerator pedal. Foot steer or two lever steer like a D4-h. Hell, gimme a D4h with a little more balls and I'd be perfectly happy.
PTO and three point hitch.
Hesston/Fiat made a small dozer with 540 rpm pto and 3 point hitch swamp rat.Pretty handy machine,first one I ever saw was at a Hesston tractor dealer in the early 1980's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Montepulciano101.jpg Cab was also an option www.farmerservice.net/en/article/FIAT-AGRI-80-75-cingolato/282.html Buddy of mine still has one but I think the engine has trouble.I may have to take a drive and check it out
I wish that the oscillating track frame, or swing frames, like on larger dozers was available. I just completed a job in which I had a D5K rented, and although it is a very nice little tractor, it cannot follow contours as smoothly as larger tractors without cutting the earth with its tracks, as in a 90 degree corner on a 3:1 slope. I also prefer the feel of drive train and direct relation to engine sound and feel of the powershift tractors as opposed to hydrostatic, whether large or small. They are getting better, but I much prefer a D6N for finshing topsoil and blending into existing topography over the D5G. As for smaller than D4, the last tractor that I ran of that size was in 1976, and it was a JD 350 (my first dozer experience) and I thought I was really something on that "bulldozer". My how times have changed.
I'm with Qball. I really like my D3 series 2 LGP dozer, but I wish she had a little more power. I'd probably be really happy with a D5 size with a D6R power level. Hehehe. I don't need all the bells and whistles, I'm fine with a power shift (I've ran/rented Hydros) open cab, and just plain old simplicity.
td25c - nice looking machine , seems to be well built from looks atleast.
I agree looks very well built! :usa
Well you could buy one of these... http://www.struckcorp.com/ Now be sure to scroll down and watch the powerful video of the little beast in action:falldownlaugh
That sir made my day! I wonder if I can get a SU blade?:lmao
I saw one of these a few years ago in person, guy had it out in the yard going to town on the wife's flower beds :laugh
Case 450 with power...
Single lever clutch/brake wet system with clutchless reverser and wide ratio direct drive transmission for a couple decent working speeds and a medium and tallish travel speed. Six way blade and true direct injection. Oh wait, Deere 350c 400 series and 450 series have all that! Hopefully I'll have mine on the pad this week.
Ultimate dozer would have drawbar pull at least 2x it's weight. Good ac, out of the last 4 dozers I've had the ac sucked in all of them case and cats. Quiet cab. Enough hp to push loaded blade at regular dozing speeds without bogging down, basically no bog at half speed at least. I like the stable blade and Eco modes on the cat d5k2 and d6k2. A simple push button auto level that would keep the blade level to make doing pads easier, don't know why no one has done that yet. More blade weight to penetrate hard soil better. My d5k2s tracks will just stop pushing on stumps even though the engine doesn't lug much however the d6k2 will lug down too much pushing dirt or stumps but the tracks haven't quit like the d5. The case 650k I had was the best dozer pound for pound although it didn't have as many features as the cats but would over heat after 2 or 3 hours of heavy dozing. Dozer I wish I had for finishing would be a d5k2 at 130 hp with 42000 lbs of draw bar pull with a much improved ac and a auto level feature on the tilt. D6k2 needs 190 hp with 60000lbs of draw bar pull, better ac, much quieter cab, auto level tilt. My 2 cents
I would like for dozers to have quiter tracks. I wonder if having the front idler toothed to run on the chain and have short flats that would mate to the rails would help? 750J I been running is noisy as heck
That thing looks awesome, if it was anything but a hesston it would probably be fantastic, but as soon as they put their name on it, it usually means it is pretty low budget, repair often.
Here is my Struck. I have done some upgrades since these shots were taken. No more winch on the blade. I used a linear actuator on the blade so it now has down pressure. These machines are so handy for a hobby farmer I'm surprised there are not more of them around.
I just found these. Is that a kit built dozer? I'm thinking of buy one of them for myself for Christmas. :usa
That's up to you Dave. You can get them as a kit which you assemble or buy them ready to go from the factory. I will say that the service from Struck is excellent. They have a lot of long term employees that know their stuff right back to the older models like mine. It's nice to be able to call there and get proper service. These mini dozers are light weight but can do a helluva lot of work if you plan your work according to the limitations of the machine.
I'm planning to go with the kit version because I think it would be fun to build and also make maintaining it much easier. It's really more of a toy for me to play with rather than something that I need to do work with. I'm retired on disability due to a couple of bouts with cancer and I miss working on and running heavy equipment. I was a factory worker and mainly operated forklift trucks and my hobby was restoring and maintaining historic railroad equipment. I've got three Wheelhorse garden tractors that I'm working on now, which are ok but that little dozer looks so neat and I've always wanted to run a crawler tracked vehicle. I see from your new photos that you've put the linear actuator on your blade. Is that an electrically driven screw jack? How is it working out for you? Thanks for your reply. :
Hi Dave. Yes, I put the actuator on and it makes it a whole different machine. Just a bit of down pressure makes a world of difference either when going ahead or when back blading. I thinks the key is to have enough room for the end of the actuator to move around when the blade tips up from one side to the other. If everything is built with really tight tolerances the end of the actuator will like break off. I designed it so the actuator can move a fair amount with binding up when the blade follows the contour of the terrain. Sure would like to see those wheel horses too as I love to tinker with the old G.T.'S. I actually plan to paint my dozer in the future and and will do it to match one of the Case 222 tractors I have here.
I need to get some shots of my 'horses, but I don't have a digital camera yet. That's a beautiful little Case you have there. I fell in love with one like that back when I was a kid because I saw another kid trying to drive it over the mower deck at the Case dealership that was owned by a distant cousin. My Dad was shopping for a riding lawn mower at the time, but he didn't like the tractor style mowers and wouldn't buy it. We ended up with a rear engine Murray that beat the crap out of our push mower. As far as the actuator goes, it seems to me I've seen some sort of floating end for one of those that will do the trick for you. I'll have to let my brain chew on it for awhile since it sometimes takes me a bit to remember things. :beatsme
If it's significantly for grins those are pretty neat. But keep in mind once that small, wheel machines can do the same jobs faster and with lower maintenance costs, noise and ground damage. Wheel machines also usually have the option of *practical* (three point) implement attachments and most are liquid cooled diesel engines. Your run of the mill mini excavator will do the same job as a micro dozer, plus is in excavator and significantly more durable and fuel efficient. It sounds like you are going in eyes open, I'm mostly saying this for the hundreds (?) of folks who will read the thread. With a ROPS and limb risers, those things are parade winners.
That's a good point and I'm thinking of renting a mini to do a little work around the place, as well as see how well they work. The little dozer will be mainly a toy, other than snowplowing. Most of my equipment are really toys to me anyway. I'm just happy to still be around and able to play with these things. Thanks for your comment and I'm going to post some photos of other equipment I've operated on the Old Iron forum. Dave:usa
In reply to "swamp rat" many years ago i owned a International 340 GAS w/ a 6 way blade that had a 3pt. set up and it had down pressure. I can't remember if it had a PTO.
Have a short track JD350, works great in tight spaces, needs some regrousering though.
Hi.... Newbie needs some useful advice....I've got my eye on a 1976 Case 450 that has been basically been rebuilt. Does this size Case equal a JD450? What should I look at to make sure machine is solid? Thanks
A Case 450 is quite a bit smaller than a JD450. Closer to a JD350, if that. Do a search on Case 450 weight and I am pretty sure There is a thread here on it.
Take a look at this thread for weight info:
John Deere 450H Dozer, 6-way, Cab, Ripper on You Tube Here's a machine you can make a living with, small, but quick. Deere 450H Hydrostatic Transmission, power to both tracks with a full load turn, also counter rotates. Easy to move with a one Ton Dually and a good traler. This one in the video below should weigh around 18,000 lbs as it is set up with cab, six way dozer, and rear ripper A friend has this one and I got a couple pretty good video's and I will also try to put pictures also. He said he's thinking of trading it for a good farm tractor. It would be a good way to get a nice Dozer if someone has a spare farm tractor. http://youtu.be/nzwbfL55IpA .
Give me a good old 33000 serial number D8H with a ripper and a straight dozerblade. That the perfect dozer to run. Mike Nebergall X Quad Operator
D8 slides just outside the ring of 'small dozer'
A cross between a D4K2 LGP and a D37PX-23. The Controls and everything else of the cat, but with the Komatsu cab style. With a tier 3 engine.
I owned a nortrac dozer it was/is a great little machine, came with 3 point and PTO, did A LOT of work with it. I looked at the struck dozer but for the price and what you get, could not see it????? I used my nortrac for logging, snow removal, pond digging, leveling and so on. It always started with ease even on the coldest of days, and never gave me any troubles.
If you happen to decide on a John Deere 450, be sure to consider an LGP with the 24 inch pads. That is an awesome machine.
350 C JD 8' 4" wide ?? Why do you recommend the "24 " grousers" I was under the impression they were hard on the chains and rollers ? I have a chance to buy a 350 C with wide grousers, the width of the machine is 8 feet 4 inches according to the seller. When he told me the width I couldn't believe it, and still have my doubts, the machine is a distance from me so I can't go look at it but it is selling cheap. What are your ideas on this information concerning the width.
Cat "K" Series hands down i love the ability to change the blade speed based on application, the balance and visibility is excellent! integrated accugrade controls the new D6K is going to have a cross slope built in!
Too bad I did not see this post when it was started but the answers would be the same.I will concede to the post about the D8H but although the balance of it is just about perfect,you could piroutte on top of a pile of rocks with it and it would be completely comfortable there it is a little larger than Steve was looking for I think ) I would have to pick the smaller John Deeres in the small dozer categories and I have had the opportunities over the years to sample the competition which is probably no surprise to those that follow my posts.I don't think that I have ever wished for more power in any of them as just about any of them will spin the tracks in the right gear.The P/W ratio seems just about right as far as I am concerned. About the only thing they could have done to "improve" their dozers would be to add a "live" undercarriage as another poster mentioned but that would add to the cost of production in what is probably a very competitive market since the the bean counters and not the operators purchase the machines.Ron G
Any LGP dozer will allow you to operate in soft and wet conditions where the narrow pads just won't. I have spent a lot of time in wet ditches and a narrow tracked dozer would have never allowed me to get the production that the wide pads would. In regards to undercarriage wear ; an LGP will have accelerated wear but the amount or severity compared to a narrow padded machine would be determined on what kind of conditions the machine was run in. Material with a lot of large rocks or broken concrete is detrimental to getting a lot of hours on the undercarriage.
Owned and ran a Case 450B for years... it was OK. have had a 850C for years, it's OK too but I would like it better if it had very narrow shoes because even with standard shoes it is planted so well it turns hard. Was a fill-in operator for another contractor that had a old Deere 450C, WOW could that old machine push! He traded it for a brand new 450H, very maneuverable- great for grading around a lot of trees and structures- but a DOG when it came to flat out pushing, very disappointing for work that involves more than 1/2 a blade full. I like Deere machines for their hydraulics- fast, precise and strong. Ran a D6MXL for about 30 hrs., primarily grading around foundations, OK machine but did NOT like the fingertip steering- had my first arthritis flareup in my left fingers with those controls. Ran a D4 late model with the wider shoes (not LGP) on slopes for a day, it was the most stable dozer I have run by far.
I worked for a contractor that had a couple of high track D5s in his fleet,one was an XL with that fingertip steering and the other just the conventional steering that you would expect.I would take that one any day over the fingertip model.They did say that the XL weighed a little more.They were both great dozers.Ron G
I've had a Deere 350b, Deere 450E Caterpillar D3B and know a caterpillar D5k XL. They all had there pros and cons for sure. Caterpillar and Deere are hard to beat for reliability and resale jmo. I'm very happy with my 100 HP D5k.
It does'nt look like anyone has mentioned the G model John Deeres. Thought JD had a good idea when they used the same transmission in all the G models, 450,550 and 650. Their winch was also a huge improvement over the old winches. I have owned the older 450 and 550 models, they were ok but I wouldn't go back. It is sad that they no longer build the G model especially when I've heard some not too flattering things about the H and J models. Not a fan of the direct drive models but I know people who have them and are quite happy with them.
D4H LGP II 3304 Engine w/ Powershift Transmission Full armour 6-Way Blade Side & Rear Screens Limb Risers 12-Hella Ultra Beam Lights 5-Slot Ripper Brush Blade Attachment 125 HP Oversized Transmission Cooler Full Face Respirator for those dusty days fighting fire.
D5 K2 LGP gps ready is the sweetest small dozer right now for finishing dirt an aggregate and making cuts of less than 4'. Anybody asking for auto level just can't run a dozer well. The LGP tracks keep the machine nibble on its feet without destroying everything it runs over and will help on the wet days. It is fast and not very noisy with a very good line of sight to the blade. It is still solid frame or no floating/pivoting tracks so you can feel and predict what the machine is doing so you make a fine grade. It has enough power to spread 1500-2000 ton of gravel a day and not let you get behind and to keep the tracks turning when making a cut. The only thing I would change on the D5 K2 LGP is make the blade control manual instead of electric over hydraulic. This post may ruffle some feathers here but I'm interested in seeing what others think of what I have said.
The Ultimate small dozer....one that runs
I'm new to this forum and I haven't read the back log of posts on this thread so I'm sorry for saying that any H series cat dozer and the word ultimate should not be used in the same paragraph. I have never fought a fire with a dozer so I won't pick on the antique d4h configuration that you mention. Those dozers are obsolete and are that way for a reason. I would assume that the reason you would pick that machine for fighting a fire is that if it gets burned up it is still worth what it was before the fire.... SCRAP price.
For the record, I have spent around 500 hours on a D4h and it screwed up my opinion of caterpillar equipment for a decade because it was such a pig. Furthermore if I were to fight a fire with a machine it would hands down no questions asked be a 963b or newer series crawler loader.
Dozer Jomer, can't say I disagree.
I spent around 5500 hours on a 650G in the late 90's early 2000's and was quite fond of those machines. What I am not fond of is how my knees feel from pushing the foot steer pedles and bracing myself from the very harsh shifting direct drive transmission . The H series John Deere's were very nice however blade articulation was not as good as on the G series but was made up for by the addition of counterrotating tracks. A few more horsepower and a sharper angling blade on the 650 H would be very hard to be by any dozer
dresser td7h is a great little machine
Completely new here. I looked for a thread where we introduce ourselves but didn't see one. It will take me some time to look around and get familiar with the site. I am a former precision machinist who went back to school and have worked as a manufacturing engineer (General Dynamics) in the aerospace/defense industry for over 30 years. I am on my last week at my job and am going to retire next Thursday on the 31st. So I wanted something to do in retirement, because I like being outside and in the woods is better. I bought a 2004 model John Deere 450H LT to have for a hobby. My son just bought 20 acres of neglected, wooded land to homestead on so I should get plenty of practice working on that place. I have been doing some cleanup and small tree clearing with my JD farm tractor with front end bucket but ran out of horsepower and traction. I will be doing some limited transport of the dozer between my farm and his place, about 31 miles one way. I bought a Big Tex GD25-28+5MR that I will modify with some rough cut oak boards placed on the ramps for traction and will pull it with my F350 dually powerstroke. So, I am here to listen, read and learn because I am ignorant to dozer work. Familiar with tractors but not tracks. Bear with me as I hope to ask the occasional newbie question and learn from those with experience. Thanks
I have a lot of hours (years) on 650Gs,we had two of them and they were not the same either but neither one was foot steer but they were fantastic little dozers and superb for fine grading for road base as well as spreading top soil etc.I would buy one new today,in fact I liked them better than the "H" models. They were surprising in fact for the brute power they had for bulk pushing,they could really hook up and seemed to have a good P/W ratio but all John Deeres hook up well if the growsers are not worn down too much.Ron G
I would also have to go with a Dresser TD7H, We have had one for over 20 years, and work the snot out of it daily. I will miss it when it dies.
The Ultimate samell dozer would have...... The one thing I don't like the most on any dozer is, no were to put your lunch bag! It slips down behined the seat and then you can't put it out, then it gets chushed if the seat is worn! How hard is it for Cat, Komatsu and the others to make a flat spot with a net along the font?
PTO and three point hitch. https://www.exptools4u.com
I would love to see a dozer made of that has a lot less computers and wires that on them now. I know it's all nice and fancy when it's new. When they get a few years old I think you suppose to just get rid of it and buy new again. That's hard to do for us small business .
I have a Deere 450C and it's a powerful little machine and small enough to haul with my f250. I was impressed at it's ability to knock down mesquite trees.
:my2cMy ideal dozer. Hmmmmmmmm. I like the Yanmar T-80 AG crawler. I've not ran one, but boy do they look cool! They have a narrow stance, rubber tracks, three point hitch, PTO, and are available with a dozer blade! I think this is a good start. I would like to see a compact rubber track Tractor. Maybe use the drivetrain components from a CTL, but offer a blade, 3 PT and PTO. I was thinking of a machine about 48 HP Yanmar Diesel, 4 range hydro drive, overall weight of about 4500 lbs, with rubber, and quick change to steel tracks all with a 6 way dozer blade. A machine this size could take the compact tractor market by storm! I love the versatility of our Bobcat T-190 and just wondered to myself why there isn't a compact tractor made similar to something like this, but m ore as a tractor instead of a dedicated loader. When you have a fleet of common construction equipment at your fingertips, something unique is always a fun thing!
Mini Dozer with a cable blade ...... I love it ! Not sure if the trailer & tie down chain are rated for that machine ....... Better move that rig after dark so DOT don't get any ideas . LOL
I've got lots of thoughts. Finally! A small dozer is mentioned besides a 450 anything. I've never run a TD-7,8 or 9. I'm wondering how they push compared to my orphan ca 18,000 lb x 100 hp Daewoo DD80L. I enjoy this machine. I paid too much 10 years ago compared to what they bring today since they are no longer made but it only had about 1200 hours on it. Only has about 150 more on it now. It is our farm dozer but I had it out in 95 degree heat all day today pushing trees and building waterways. Never missed a beat never got hot. Something must be wrong. The hydraulics fit it. I can run fast over irregular ground pushing small brush and if I get my rhythm right I can follow the contours with both tilt and blade lift. It is an electric over hydraulic Sunstrand hydrostat with hall effect input devices, wheel slip detectors, engine speed detector etc. In other words, Fly by Wire and it scares the crap out of me that it will fail someday as so many others of its kind have. I suspect most of the problems are from storing outside and wiring connector problems. Ours has been barn stored since we bought it as with all our equipment. Good barn cats and a large black snake in the machinery building seem to keep the mice at bay from chewing on wires. It sat for nearly five years while I finished up my career and I've gotten it out finally now that I am retired. It is simple in principle but a wiring nightmare and where do you get a new microprocessor? All machines are being built to be obsolete in just a few years. A local dirt contractor who prefers the older non Tier engines said Cat tells him his '97 tractors are antiques. The Daewoo DB58 engine is like a Cummins 5.9 but with wet sleeves and it has SEVEN main bearings. These things are in service all over the world. It is very happy between 1500 and 1800 rpm and stingy on fuel since it is naturally aspirated. At 100 hp rated the thing is hardly working. I've got some fitting leaks to fix tomorrow so I'll pull the seat and the inspection plates to access the aft end where the pumps are. It has a nice simple welded plate box frame and Berco track group I'm told is the same on a D5 Hystat. The machine is a 2001 model and I'm fearful that some of the O-rings in the Type 62 fittings are getting brittle. I've thought about selling the machine and buying a TD-7, 8 or 9 or even a Komatsu 32 or 37 but I'd like to run one for a bit first and that is a tall order to fill in a meaningful way. I've also thought about a Case 450 or even a later model 350 with the planetary cutting clutches. Those are nice since they can power steer but they would not do the work like I did today nearly as fast. I shy from Cat and JD since they tend to sell for more than the others and the orphans. The way I use a dozer it is hard to justify a very expensive and late model one but there is nothing else that can do the work of a dozer when you need one. One other thing in buying equipment new or used that I've promised myself I will do If I ever buy anything else: GET A MAINTENANCE MANUAL AND DO A FULL SIMULATED MAINTENANCE PROGRAM TO SEE WHAT IT REALLY TAKES. Some of these machines are almost impossible to work on in any reasonable way. My hams and forearms are not the size of broom sticks. My favorite small dozer would be not new, 75 to 100 hp, simple but with wet clutches all-round, new tracks and otherwise refurbished, planetary finals, 15 to 18" grousers because I don't need wide pads and they are rough on chains in rock of which I have very little, medium long tracks, six way blade, small ripper, no computers at all and 14,000 to 18,000 lbs. Heavier is better but I don't want to try to pull one with a one ton truck. Had enough of that kind of thing. It would be outstanding to replace my PC-40 with an 7.5 to 10 ton trackhoe with blade. That and a dozer would do a lot of hard work for me.
Cat grader now has a 30ish thousand dollar wiring harness. At CONEXPO a Cat VP was extolling the virtues of their triple redundant fighter plane technology steering. Why? If the steering fails, and I can't remember it ever doing so on a grader, all you gotta do is stop and fix it. I'm still just pushing dirt and can't think of a single reason I need triple redundant fighter jet technology in my steering. If I had about a billion dollars I'd start a new equipment company and call it Just Basics. Rugged equipment you can work on with lots of off the shelf components, few bells and whistles but all the things that make an operator comfortable and able to work well all day and any wiring would be simple, easy to trace and repair.
Here's a monster and it's for sale in Cottonwood Calif.
And this one here has a four ripper set up, now that's a power house. Truck Shop
Wisconsin engine in the 4 shank walk behind ripper ? Wonder what the engine was in the Cletrac dozer , Waukesha ? Pretty nice looking machine !
D4-D CATERPILLAR 75 HP 3048 X 762 9 TON
I'd like to place that same order for something old school A TD-7E
Just bought one of those last Sunday... have to go pick it up this weekend. It is going to be the other half's garden dozer.
Wanna buy a TD7G? See avatar.
I have two of these made by windolph. 4 feet wide and about 8 feet long. One has rippers in the back.
I bought one of those from a guy that farmed up in Naches west of Yakima. I was buying a John Deere AO from him. The cultivator was so cool I bought that too. I can't remember the manufacturers name but it was out of Portland I believe! Cool to see one again!
Just bought this place so I am out of the real iron purchasing program right now. That will change and I am going to pick up a "7" for custom work your just about 24 months ahead of my plan... the flip side of that is I will give it some thought.
Ryan: Cute little beasties. Rick
Thanks i also have a 1939 d2 3j that looks huge compared to them
I have always wondered about these dozers. I remember seeing them advertised in "Southern Equipment Guide" newspaper back in the late 1990s and early 2000's. What kind of parts does it use that you cannot buy? Can you go to the Doosan dealer and still get every part? Is it made of components that you can buy at random general parts houses? It's a joystick hystat? It uses a pump and motor system that is used in other machines also? I assume it's the same size as a Cat d3 or Cat D5 hystat? I wish you would make some informative videos of your machine. How to run it, features...etc.... might even increase value of your own dozer if you posted to Youtube and it became a source for the dozers and potential buyers....
I looked at a JD450 yesterday.Someone had put new undercarraige on it along the way,it had a winch and a C frame angle blade on it. For a machine thats probably close to 50 years old it was tight and ran well.Seems like the ideal machine to me,the only other thing needed is talent in the seat.
I want live hydraulics, and a winch. Finding a functional winch for my Dresser that won't ultimately cost 6000 by the time it's functional has eluded me. I did find a $4000. winch the seller described as "fair" with missing pieces
I agree looks very well dozer.
Here it is gentlemen! Built 1968 and 50 years running strong and probably will be running 50 years from now.. pedal steering if you want to lock up a track or powershift the steering levers and make a nice power turn
Great collection!
I had a 450B - S/N dates it 1969- from the mid 80's to the mid 90's, bought it with about 9,000 hrs., sold it in good condition with about 12,500 hrs. Only did an U/C and had a crack in the block between 2&3, regular maintenance. It smoked a little- I believe it was slightly overfueled and it was loud for a little diesel even with a new muffler but what machine for what it was.
Oh, I see, posting dirty pictures now! Short tracked JD 350 with snow grousers (mostly worn) Just completed putting in a driveway so an astronomy group could utilize a couple abandoned fields as parking lot and observatory area. The road was about 5' below the edge of the fields rock wall and there was a big void on the other side, nudged the rock wall into the void and pushed excess dirt atop that to make a 20 foot wide driveway entrance, spread two triaxle loads of gravel atop that. First load leveled it out and then I set to trimming back the edges and cleaning up the slope and approach flare, it came out looking pretty nice.
Nice work. Does the Dozer have angle or tilt?
Yes indeed you use the same 3lb sledge hammer for each function, drive the taper pins out and the left side of the blade goes up and down, use a rock or a block to get it right and then hammer the pins back in. angle is more tricky as you have to slide the arms out and then pin them after you unpin the blade and move the arm to the correct hole. I'd simply love a 6 way blade for this dozer, it does have the valve already.
any one seen new d5 from cat we can all throw laser away . what will we think about when we are running.
Another dirty picture of an ultimate small dozer.
I like that and you have the ultimate track loader in front of it!
My Dad purchased this 440-IC in 1960. I's had its second major overhaul in 2003 and a fresh engine in 2018. Plan to offer for sale about Spring or Summer. I have a Komatsu D21a-7 to replace it with.
Looks nice but need to loosen the tracks a little.
I love that machine, great image Willie!
I need a small dozer for my farm, I would love something cheaper but could last long. This thread gave some insights!
Is that the original color yellow for that year? I have a 1966 6 way blade has the red undercarriage and blade.
It's very close. Couldn't find a formula for the correct Dresser yellow, so we had to create the formula.
Love mine, bought in for $900, needed injector pump, then replaced torque converter housing, had weld around flange, leaking replaced and works well in the Berkshires Northern CT
How did the D4c XL with power shift compare to the Deere’s of that time frame?
I just picked up a Sutter 480 Dozer yesterday, been wanting one for a very long time!
Curious how well that Sutter would compare to skid steer?
Welcome to the Forums Craig60!
Remarkable machine! Predecessor, but dissimilar to a compact track loader.
I haven't operated a skid steer. I like that it has steel tracks grousers as I will be operating it in areas that can be steep.
I use to have an old D-4 to keep the ranch roads open with. It got old and tired. Then I rented a Case 450 for a week to work on the roads. Then I rented a D-3 to work on the roads. Just wanted to have my own dozer again to clean up and maintain the roads with when ever I wanted and not wait until there was a lot of work to do to rent one to make it worth while. I like that I can haul the 9,000 lb dozer myself.
The predecessor to the SWACO I believe. These are used to make trails on public lands out here in the west.
Its Sweco.... and yes it is. Partner ship split and they are both (Sweco and Sutter) are still building the trail dozers. I know they are for building trails, I've been wanting one for over 20 years. National Forest and BLM buy a lot of them.
I'm old. As a child, I drooled, wanting a Case backhoe loader. Before the first of these were bulldozers, & very small hoes. George Connors built a military surplus every wheel drives truck, added a Bantam hoe. He was the dominant machine digger locally. Donald Edmunds bought new the first Case Construction King. He dominated the new home business locally. Like everyone else, his truck was a clapped out town truck. He didn't own a trailer. Hook the loader bucket over the tailgate, drive carefully.
Thanks @CM1995
https://olympic.craigslist.org/hvo/d/carlsborg-cletrac-model-restored/7403514063.html
First of all I am not a dozer expert by any means but have owned a few. Our new D3 (formerly the D5K) is one fine small dozer. Cat refined their small dozer line as they were falling behind with the G and K series IMO which resulted in a very well balanced finish tractor. Ours is LGP so that has something to do with balance. Speed is infinitively proportioned along with power to the ground. Only have 300 hours on it and of course it has a lot of electronics so time will be the true judge.
Our D4K is a dandy little tractor, so If this is an improvement, it should be great
That's a good looking dozer CM! I wish mine looked that nice. Based on the amount of paint still on the cutting edges, the machine in the picture doesn't look like 300 hours just yet. I assume this was taken within the first day or two.
DG that pic was taken when it rolled off the lowboy new back in April. Might have had 30 hrs on it. Haven't used it alot it has 300+ on it now.
Does it have the blade shaker? Our 4 does, and it's the craziest thing I have ever seen.
It does. Pretty neat feature in sticky clay.
The shaker is pretty a neat feature. Once you hook up a guidance system it loses this and becomes the automatic button.
I had one of those about 50 years ago, when I was just a kid. Mine had been converted to a ride on unit. Someone had put an old tractor seat on it, and moved the controls. Like a lot of things, I wish I still had it.
Buried under a pile of rocks (it wasn't worth the commitment to restore) I have a Roto-ette. It's the predecessor to the Troy Built roto tiller. One wheel behind the engine, & the tiller was two very short augers. Might have tilled 18" wide, with a gap in the middle.
My friend had a 350. It had been a bog tractor with some ridiculously wide tracks on it. Blade was equally wide. Whether the set up for wide tracks was John Deere, or a machine shop build, I don't know. By the time he got it it had standard tracks, but set very wide. He did a lot of land clearing on overgrown farm land with 16" diameter trash trees. Burning a pile of brush pushing into the fire, a track derailed. He had a panicked minute crabbing away with one track, decided he best not do that any more.
Any thoughts on this? Case Minotaur
Have to wait and see how operators like it for dozing.
A real dozer has a disadvantage of the operator not able to see the bottom corners of the blade. Mine has about an 8' blade with about 6' track width. Only with the blade square across, can I see the bottom corners. I'd have to run one of these to say, but the advantage of most skid steers or track loaders is the operator can see the whole cutting edge of the bucket. Makes grading easier. This looks to be a very narrow blade & it mounts very close to the track idler, so I'm not sure how visible things might be.
I find the blade visibility (particularly to the corners) is better on a dedicated dozer (I run a D5k). Whenever I have run a skid steer with a dozer blade attachment (admittedly only a few times) the loader arms obstruct the view of the blade corners.
How bad did you mess up to get that contraption as punishment?
Here’s our little fella dozer (Mitsubishi)
Being a grader guy, I like an angle blade tractor. I ran our D6 today, and it erks me to no end that I can't see the corners. Tractor guys always tell me to look at the back of the blade between the track and frame, but I would still like to see the corners, or at least one.
You might find it even funnier if you consider the following: I am the boss, and therefore there was no punishment handed down....I actually chose it each time. I'm not sure if you're poking fun at the me running the skid with the dozer blade, me running a skid, regardless of the attachment, or both. In truth, I used to scoff at skid steers and thought that they were nothing more than glorified wheel barrels. I bought my first one (an '06 Bobcat A300) and grew to find the places that they work well and now even enjoy running them. They have their place in my opinion. Now putting a dozer blade on them...I still haven't found a my "happy place" with that set up. I'm definitely NOT a blade hand but I still like seeing the corners too. I usually try to set up my pushes so that I can and then angle (if I need to) after I begin pushing/cutting. I have found that this seems to work pretty good and one gets even better at it after putting some time in.
Just messing with you DG. I’ve tried a 6 way blade on an 863 Bobcat once - what an abomination that attachment is on a skid steer.
When I first purchased my 1845C tractor I installed new tires with ballast and "demo'd" a new "Grouser" brand six way dozer blade attachment for it. Not only was there not enough power available, there also wasn't enough weight. I couldn't even approach a full blade load and with any angle set the tractor would not push straight but rather want to slip to a side. I used my TLB to do the spreading of the gravel for the drives and parking area(s) as this wasn't going to work. I did use the skid steer to backdrag and groom with my bucket once the gravel was placed. As mentioned above the six way blade was an "abomination" in the application I found, but at the time I had very little seat time in the tractor. I have no problems pushing snow with a 102" wide "Meyer" snowplow modified to fit the skid steer plate, but there is still not enough tractive effort to the ground for even light gravel work.
I think the problem is the blade gets too much load too easily and the force on the cutting edge causes the machine weight balance all on the front wheels. It basically digs in and doesn't have enough counter weight at the back to prevent it. Skid shoes prevent this on a snow blade but don't work very darn good in dirt. I imagine a CTL is a little better but still too short to get the right weight balance. Pushing from the loader arms probably contributes to this as well. That's why this Case machine has extra push arms down low and a completely redesigned dozer blade attachment. If it actually works properly could be a bit of a game changer.
All snow blades I've seen for skid steer are pivoting so the loader can be frozen in one position to plow with the blade floating to follow terrain. Snow being less dense than driveway, shoes do the trick. That ain't gonna work on dirt. A "Harley Rake" uses gauge wheels to follow terrain, I'm not sure that will work with a dozer blade.
The Sutter 480 has been working out pretty well for me. Got some good use out of it this spring and summer. Cleaned up a slide and a lot of other things. Tried to send some picture, but it said the file is too big.
I haven’t worked on the newest redesigns yet but the K series were very much easy machines to work on for many service operations. much better than working on a D6N. The Ks also seemed overall quite reliable when taken care of. the new D5 (D6N’s new dress) is supposed to have a cab that pulls off in a few hours easily at least.
Wow! Scrolling back through this thread and wasn't expecting to see the cletrac. That was my post. Ended up selling it to a guy in Michigan for $4k.
In this quote you (CM) mention that your opinion was that Cat was falling behind with their small dozers. This makes for, what I believe to be the opening of an interesting discussion. I have heard many folks talk about the superiority of Deere dozers with the introduction of the J models (some may even say with the H models). While I haven't been in the seat of a J model Deere, I have been in an H, and I've been in several Cats (C, G, Ks). I personally don't see the small Cat dozers falling behind. I currently own a D5K, and have always felt that Cat dozers have set the bar that others strive to reach. I would love open this discussion to hear what other owners and operators think. I'll start by saying that performance, longevity, support, and re-sale (maybe other things too) should be part of the criteria for the discussion. I have already said that I haven't operated any Deere newer than an H, and I don't think that those on par with the Cats. Are the J, K, and P (has anyone even run one of those yet?) dozers better performers than the Cats? If so, in what way? Even if the J's and K's are superior performers, how much so? In my opinion, the Cat dozers have superior undercarriage, bushings and pins, and better longevity over all. Is that disputed?
About 15 years ago (Now 83) I had two properties that needed dozer work. I had two different dozer people out to do some dozer work for me. Waste of money. Could do about as much with my tractor and a box blade with a riper. I decided I wanted to play in the dirt and play with the Tonka toys. I had a F350 truck and 12 gvw tailer and I didn't want to change equiement to haul one and thought the mini was the way to go. First one was a Massy Furgerson 200. Had a nice cab and had sat in a field for about 7 years so the mice had pretty well taken it over it. It wouldn't run. Had a fellow push it up on my trailer with a Case BH. Got it all cleaned up, painted, rewired, used it quite a bit. next thing I knew I was getting callls to come out and do small ddozer jobs (fence rows, trailer pads, repairing roads, etc.) Used it for a year or two, and it was needing major work soon. No parts available, Little cab was nice in cold weather, had a heater) Some fellow came along that had money that was burning a hole in his pocket, out of my life and into his. By this time I was about ready to semi retire and close my auto repair business for 30 years. Still wanted to stay small. Bought a Case 350. Not as efficent as the ** 200. Painted it up good, repaired cyl. leaks and sold it. Ran on to a old Allice HD4, low hours, Excellent shape,Used it for a few years, hard to get parts for it too. That was during the housing boom in 2000 or so. Did alot of back fill and conturing yards. Found it was more efficient to do just the rough stuff with the dozer and the finish work with my little NH 1900 with box blade and York rake. Some where in there some septic pumping and installing co. wanted me to do work for them as it was cheaper for me to do it than pay his own men plus he could move them on to another job and I would close up and alot of times picked up extra work because it was a new house and needed gutter drains, yard clened up and smoothed. I had also bought a small JD skid steer and JD 50 track hoe. Co. I was doing dozer for septic, sold business, and housing went bust. I sold the HD4 and that was when they were inporting all those little Komatsu and Mitsubushi dozers. I foun a little BD2H with a 8 way blade ( yes 8 way) did alot of work with it. Finally my wrists and fingers got to bothering me alot from pulling on the levers, and getting older. Fellow who I was doing septic work said build up a septic pumper. Not near as hard on the old body and more money. Still have the little Mitsu and my son had learned to use it on his farm. Any of you ever run the little Konatsu? I hear some of them have a joy stick. Wonder how that would be on the hands and wrists. Sold my septic co after 15 years two years ago. Was getting too hard for me to do it all by myself at 81. Went to a homeless shelter for men and offered to pay some $40 a hour to help me. IL could still drive and maintain the truck but was just too hard dragging the hoses. Couldn't find any one to work. So that's why I sold it. The little dozers have their place. Alot of the small jobs the felllows with the big machiners are not interested. Hope I didn't bore you with my experence with small dozers.
A joystick would probably be easier on hands and wrists. I think some of the fancy newer machines you can adjust the sensitivity and resistance of the joysticks. I've heard the ** dozers were good machines in their day. The MF200 would have sipped fuel with the 3 cylinder Perkins. It must have had a lot of hours on it because those engines are as bullet proof as they come. The engine parts are readily available.
When you are in the seat, can you see the cutting edge bolts on the back of the blade?
No but I can see the outside edge of the end bits.
My Dresser TD7G has a kind of narrow blade. If I angle it at all I can't see the corners of the blade from the seat. I have contemplated adding little flexible wings to indicate blade height. My friend grew up with two TD7E. He can lay a lawn or even a flat pad preparing for concrete slab flawlessly by eye. He recommends angle the blade, do a series of short pushes to finish grade. Don't push far enough to let the tracks fall into a dip where you cut too low.
I notice talking to a lot of the guys at work, that none of them like our D4K. They like the cab, and what not, but they all find it a bugger to operate. Everyone, including myself prefer the old D3G, or 450 Deere. Last time I ran it, I noticed I could see the bolts, and for some reason, it made me in my mind, want to roll the blade forward, like the grader to start the cut. Anyway, it made me wonder if perhaps the blade as set too far ahead. Nowhere near the machine now, but is that top link not adjustable, and if so, is there a factory spec for what the pitch of the blade should be.
Our D3 is a Next Gen not a K series. We rented a few K series and decided to pass until the Next Gen came out which is a different tractor than the K's IMO. Our D3 is LGP and fun to operate.
It sounds like yours is pitched forward too much to me. I'm not familiar with the Ks, but every dozer I have run has been adjustable. Usually on c frames it will be on the left blade support which usually has three holes from which to choose. On a D6N it was in the top link center of the blade.
I just looked at the D4K brochure; the top bar center of the dozer is adjustable. Adjusting the pitch back should improve grade ability and be more forgiving.
I looked at it today,, and it was parked beside our 450 Deere, and it is way too far ahead. I think some adjustment is in order.
Always was fond of the Allis Chalmers H4-HD4 then 652 and 653 dozers. Would have liked to see those AC designs with updates to 2024 with a wet back end, cabs with AC and Heat and production of parts and tooling here in the U.S. OEM tracks for the units mentioned was done in Springfield Illinois so the talent is here to build the U/C.
We try to ship them neutral (even threads on both ends of the link) and let the operators adjust to preference.
ompact dozers need to be agile, especially in tight spaces. A short wheelbase and tight turning radius are highly desirable.
oh of course a balance between power and fuel efficiency is crucial. nobody don't want dozers that can handle heavy work without consuming excessive fuel lol
Can't sleep? Playing with AI?
No just cleverly disguised spam. They weren't remotely close to Montana.
Sorry CM, I should have just reported it.
Dozers with a short wheelbase and tight turning radius?? They don't even know what a dozer is. LoL
No worries. That one was very crafty. They had many posts that didn't smell spammy but the IP address doesn't lie -they were around the world from Montana.
I would look at the new Cat D1 or D2 dozers. All the features in a small dozer you would ever need.
hey, I have the option to buy a Komatsu D31A-17 locally. It's an older machine - I'm guessing late 80s to 90s at most. I know so little about most equipment till I tear into it... I'm asking here because, you know - are these good for their size - about 11k lb? Are they prone to problems? how's parts availability? Also, since I've been working on a smaller 10k excavator with steel tracks, I note there's supposed to be some droop in the tracks when at rest. Here's a photo from the ad: and the tracks look taught to me. That might be normal for dozers? This has a 6 way blade, which sounds like something that would be fun to have. Anyway, my current equipment is all Deere. There may also be a chance for me to pickup about a 15klb deere dozer, but I have no idea it's model, have not seen it. I'm not chomping at the bit, and really don't need this - it's a nice to have. But is this dozer a waste of time and money based on it's model?
D31s were great little dozers for their size, a lot of times people will run wore out tracks tight to keep them from jumping off
Look at the gaps in the grouser pads around the sprocket and idler.
That track looks tightened as far as possible and needs to be loosened.
Looks like a whole lot of headaches to me, and you will never have anything but a money pit with no matter how much you repair it. No residual value either.
How can you say it looks like a whole lot of headaches from only 1 picture? Overall it doesn't appear that bad other than the track is too tight. Would have to operate it and do a thorough inspection to tell what kind of shape it's actually in.
yeah, I've decided against it. doing a pretend parts request has yielded higher prices than expected for roller and tracks. I don't want to play that game. Here's the original ad -might be of interest to someone. Komatsu D31A Dozer - heavy equipment - by owner - sale - craigslist Price drop $3,000. Komatsu D31A-17 Dozer in good condition, runs well and starts very easy. Has 6 way blade. Great little landscaping dozer, repairing roads, pushing burn piles and snow. Buyer will... kalispell.craigslist.org Lower rollers for this machine are close to $200 each. Takes 10 of these - so... $2000 in lower rollers. I can't find upper rollers quickly. Air filters are about $80 as of 4 April 2025. Anyway, it's not hard to find parts overall for this. However, you can find sprockets, idlers, tracks, track pads, track adjusters pretty easy. they are somewhat more expensive than my 50ZTS, but ... considering the use case, it's not so bad really. you can get a full rebuild kit for the engine - and importantly things like radiators, alternators. So.. that's really good. I'm dealing with a lack of parts for my 50ZTS - specifically no radiators, so I need a custom one made. still, while this looks like fun and could be repaired by the owner.... I'm going to pass. thanks for the notes and advice!
I’ve seen equipment like this over my years. Significant oil leak on the track frame, likely needs an undercarriage. Might need engine or transmission work, older hoses. Old dozer doesn’t have any current value except as scrap.
There are much worse machines that have been brought back to good working condition.
Yes you are correct if you like junk. Hence the money pit reference. You can put thousands in this and have NO value. Looks like pieces are missing on the track frame too. I would value as scrap and take it from there. A lot of people like junk and I’m sure it will find a home, but here where I am from those sell per scrap prices so if you get it home you haven’t lost anything. You aren’t a serious operator running junk.
What machines do you have and many hundreds of thousands $$$$ have you paid for them? You're making a lot of assumptions about this dozer. It might be missing a cover on the track frame and could have oil on it because a hose was replaced. There's nowhere else for a bunch of oil to come from. For a farm or hobby machine it might go 800 or more hours the way it sits. For a machine you might get for $15 or $16K, if the engine and power train are in good operating condition it could be worth putting new undercarriage on it. There's no way to know how good or bad the machine is until it's inspected in person. You can't condemn it because it might need some repairs. The same machine with new undercarriage they'd be asking $25-$30K. There are several other threads of people considering fixing up machines that truly are scrap. This one runs and drives and the hydraulics work. That's a great start and it could be a great dozer to fix up. Whenever I wonder if all the repairs I've done on my 931B cw/backhoe were worth it, I consider to replace it with a new machine would cost well over $150K.
Sir everything I have is paid for. Go ahead and play bleeding heart if you want to, but the machine is junk. There’s an awful if iffs in your rant.
You're assuming a lot in your assessment. You don't know that machine inside and out. So what machines do you have? What year and how many hours do they have? Do you trade them in before the warranty runs out? Do they never need repairs? Doesn't matter if they're paid for. Not everybody can afford perfect machines that don't need repairs and lots of owners aren't making a living with them. I have a skid steer I bought new and can do more work with the 4 used machines I bought than if I bought just 1 of the machines in perfect condition.
At the risk of getting sucked into some drama: I am a professional excavation contractor, and have been for many decades. I own many earth moving machines and trucks. Most of which I have bought new, yet several have been from the second hand market. For sure, the dozer in question would not be something I'd be interested in owning as a professional. I'm not a fan of open cab dozers, this particular dozer is too small for my applications, and I require machines that would not be a high risk of breaking down when schedules, etc. demand the job get done. Even if this dozer fits the later requirement, it does not fit the former two. The D5K that I own was bought with 3,400 hours on it. Even though it's at least still relevant to what is available on the market today, I have still done a lot of repairs and spent a fair bit of coin to ensure it's a dozer that won't let me down, can get a lot done when I need it to, and is still somewhat pleasant to operate. As a contractor, I had the money to buy it outright, and have had the money to make the necessary repairs as preventative, instead of post failure. That being said, I am aware that many on this site are hobbyists, and as such may have interest in this particular machine. When reading the original query about this little Komatsu, the poster does not seem to be in a production situation. He used phrases like "6 way blade would be fun to have". He is not even sure about proper track tension. While I could decide from this that he is a hobbyist, the information is not enough. That determination, based on the little bit of info I can glean from his post, could be as potentially false as condemning this little dozer to "junk" status from just the one photo, without further inspection. In fact, what one person might decide is junk for him, may not be junk for all. I'm not sure where the bleeding hearts comment came from as I don't see WD bleeding. I think that he is simply trying to point out that someone might buy this machine, and enjoy restoring (if required) to the state of service that is acceptable to them, even if that status is not what everyone would think is acceptable. The value of the machine may not necessarily be monetary, it may be in enjoyment, or even in the pride of overcoming whatever challenge that had to be overcome to restore it to whatever level of service that they were hoping for. Maybe even finding something that everyone else had determined was junk, when they only did some small repairs to it, and had a perfectly good running machine. Would it be worth it to make that machine perfect and in new condition? Not likely if only from a monetary stand point....But that is probably true for any used dozer. BTW, I initially thought that the dirt clinging to the undercarriage might be due to grease leaking from a blown track tensioner seal (and may actually be), but it also might be the headgland of the C-frame lift cylinder. It looks like it's leaking. There is even oil collecting dirt on the C-frame visible in front of the tracks. Torch away!!
I was writing this long note, but DGODGR wrote my thoughts well enough. yes, I'm a homeowner that likes small to mid-size heavy equipment. My first machine was a Deere 410B backhoe, my second a Deer 50ZTS. both were bought used and broken. Both took a summers work to get working again. Both are used about 250-300 hours per year. they'll last me forever. I love these kinds of projects. After I posted and started looking at things from your various points of view, I started looking up prices on stuff. this machine will be too expensive for me to get up to par. it probably works fine (for a homeowner) as-is. but I don't have a way to transport it or my other gear yet. my new project is a pair of Case-Davis 30+4 trenchers. I went out this afternoon to buy them, so I wasn't around for this bit chat. When I decided against the dozer, it was basically in favor of these. Yep, these fit the description of one man's junk. But I can make a skidder out of the pair of them; which is my full intent. these things are just big hydraulic pumps on the end of a wisconsin v4. they must weigh a full ton each! Anyway, I value your opinions, all of you. my knowledge of this kind of gear is getting better, but you've all forgotten more than what I'll ever know! I've asked questions and received good advice. thank you, everyone! Anyway, this is a great resource for a hobby level person like myself. This thread seemed a good place to ask since everyone had an opinion on "The Ultimate Small Dozer". My apologies for disrupting the thread. won't happen again! You guys rock, have a good day.
Not my thread or forum, but no apology necessary in my mind. That's what forums are for!
To round out my machines I wanted a small dozer. I found one I liked 90 miles from home. Painted up, it looked good, a John Deere 450C. $8500 seemed fair. I ran it around a while, but the whole area at the seller's place was newly manicured & seeded down. I didn't want to ruin his property, so I limited my running it. My trailer needed work, I asked Howard to haul it. Howard is a natural mechanic, just seems to know what to do every time. He started it ran it at high idle half hour. It started smoking from under the winch. Investigating the source, we found a hose from the crankcase vent. Smoke was blow by in cylinders. We also found welded repairs to the transmission. I walked away from that machine. I later learned the track frames attach to the chassis with a cross member at front. Bolts should attach crossmember to the track frames. These bolts are prone to breaking. It's a big job to get broken bolts out. Lazy, or hurried mechanics weld these. Weld is too rigid & cross member breaks. This puts strain on the transmission, breaks the case. I ended up with a Dresser dozer.
I worked on the reverser on my 350B,,, had it working great and of course I am the last person should be driving his own machine and may have overheated it again. Its sluggish. I priced tracks and sprockets a while back and replacement was cheap as pins and bushings,,, wonder if that is still the same. I dont recall exactly what was with the reverser, a bud helped and it has been a while.