Went to look at a JD 450 today. She's been sitting for about 5 years, but I think there's a good chance that she'll run with a hot battery and maybe a sniff of ether. Should be a 1967 model, SN 56121. Had a ripper at some point, but it's MIA. Would be good to have one on it; looks like the model 3110 ripper is what it needs. Track pads are JUNK, but sprockets and idlers looked ok. Not sure about the chain (any thoughts?); but it would be nice if the chain was useable because new chain is about $2,000 per side for the sealed and lubricated (SALT) stuff. Engine has had some welding or brazing done on the block; that makes me nervous. Also has an aluminum radiator that appears to be from an automotive application. It's a dry clutch machine so there's a decent chance that the steering clutches are rusty. Owner said the machine would quit moving on an incline or decline. The engine wouldn't die, but the machine wouldn't move. Could be steering clutches need adjusted or replaced or could be low oil in the trans. Any other ideas? Plan is to go back tomorrow morning with 5 gallons of diesel, a good battery, a jump pack, some tools, trans oil, and ether. If it will start and move, I will probably purchase it.
Even if you get it going, you are going to be doing a lot of work, and some parts may not be available on that vintage of unit. Expect to have to change a lot of hoses, tracks could be seized, but you never know. If you decide not you can keep your battery. Can always negotiate more depending on what happens. Simon C
Re the tracks. It maybe that someone has fitted the old grousers onto new chains at some point. Hard to be certain though so measure the pin centres which will confirm.
that's not a straight dozer.
If the block was welded it's most likely because it had straight water in it and froze. Could have taken out the rad. too. I think the tracks are pretty worn but need to some pics. of the bottom to see if the roller flanges are close to or hitting the pin bosses. Pics. of the rollers and bushings on the tracks would help too. If it stops moving on hills could be the clutch is bad. I think old JD's might have used a clutch. If not could be a transmission issue. Most if not all parts will be obsolete. I had a 1987 JD355D and a lot of parts were already obsolete in 1998/99. Might be some used parts but would require some searching. This 450 is much smaller but is still most likely going to be an exercise in frustration.
I think he means a 450 with no letter designation after it. Guaranteed.
Good point on the block and radiator. Will try to get better pics of the rollers and bushings. I'm headed that way in 5 minutes to see if she will run, but I want to get underneath the machine so I can check the frame to see if it's cracked, powertrain mounting bolts are still in place, and crossmembers are still bolted and not welded in place. Thanks for the input.
Dont go find a d3 or d4 lots more parts around get a c model and have wet steering clutches.
A 450C is the only one of the series with wet clutches. Dry steering clutches will probably be frozen and an ongoing problem unless you use the machine regularly.
It looks like the front idler in one of your pics is out towards the end of it's adjustment. If the rail height is still decent you could take a link out to get a few more hours but it looks like it is going to take a set of chains sooner rather than later. The pads are done. With all that being said, I personally would have a hard time justifying putting new pads on that chain.
I think wet brakes were still optional on C models. I have dry brakes and they work good. Some owners tie the steering levers back so they steering clutches don't seize up.
Some bs where converted c it was standard issue
Spent a few hours messing with it today and I've seen enough. It's a turd. Nothing is in good shape and there are lots of half-ass farmer fixes. Got it to turn over, but it wouldn't start. Probably a good thing because it had a severed hydraulic hose, so all the hydraulic oil would have ended on the ground.
No! No! No! Don't!
Would have to look at a brochure. A lot of people thought the 3F/3R transmission was standard equipment on the C models but it was optional. You could still get the 3F/1R. My 931B is odd. It has a factory quick attach backhoe and a 4 in 1 bucket but the 3F/1R transmission. I had the steering clutches and brakes rebuilt and it steers very easy. Only the odd time I wish I had a lower reverse gear. It does prevent high speed reverse. I also never use 3rd forward.
I don't know if you can where it is sitting. Crawl up under it get a good look at the transmission housing. Bolts break connecting the front crossmember to the track frame. Lazy, or rushed mechanics weld them together. This stresses the crossmember, it breaks. The whole front of the tractor is cantilevered off the rear crossmember. Eventually it pops the transmission housing. Sprocket I see is newer than the shoes. I expect the shoes have 5000 hours on them. It is unlikely chains & other parts would last that long. Chain wear is measured by driving up a steep hill. with chains well stretched, at bottom measure as many segments as you can. Likely pitch is ?6?" or ?6.5". You are hoping for as close to that as possible. I think an extremely worn chain might wear to 1/4" extra. Don't expect any parts to come from John Deere, anything available will come from aftermarket companies. In the day these were used exclusively by one logger here. He bought ten in one purchase. Probably owned 20 functional 350 & 450 at a time. There is a story of the crew doing a selective cut on a large parcel of mountain land owned by an out of state owner. Ten or more years later, the owner wanted to cut more trees. Logger boss sent a truck to deliver a crawler. Driver called to ask what he wanted to do with the one already there. I was told it had brush growing up through it. They salvaged parts from it.
I wanted to get under the machine to check the frame and crossmembers for cracks and repairs and check and powertrain mounting as well, but I culminated before I got to that point.
Video is up in case anyone is interested.
In 2015 it was time to own a dozer. New was WAY out of budget. I found a 450 C at a good price. I ran around on it a bit, listened to it a bit. It was one of those typical Vermont places where a big dairy farm had been split up & sold. The house & barn were on a few acres. Seller told of using the dozer to clean up decades of neglect, smooth it all out to ready for grass seed. It was early December & I didn't have the heart to drive it much. I certainly didn't want to push any dirt, the place was manicured by an expert. I agreed to buy it, but my trailer was in need of a fresh deck. I recruited Howard to transport it & give it a good looking over. He backed it up on a pile of logs, offering a unpleasant space to crawl under. He throttled it up on high idle. In minutes, the winch was smoking. Winch not in use, no explanation for smoke. Crawling around in 2" of fresh snow, we found a rubber hose that didn't belong there. Followed the hose to the crancase vent. Significant blow by in pistons, didn't agree with the hour meter. While under there, Howard & then I spotted lots of fresh yellow paint on the transmission. Then the flat steel plates welded to the outside of the cast iron transmission housing. We had wasted two trips, but he saved me from an expensive mistake. I later found a John Deere crawler rebuilder in extreme northern VT. He likes to talk! He is expert in every aspect of these little tractors. Says the typical story is the bolts attaching the front crossmember to the track frame break off. Shortcut mechanics weld them together istead of the bigger job of separating & extracting the broken bolts. This stresses the front crossmember to breaking. Puts stress on the transaxle case until it breaks. He says he looks for cheap tractors with good transaxle case as parts machines. He can revive a damaged machine with a solid casting. Repaired castings are always a failure waiting to happen for the new owner.
Yeah, after my fiasco with the free Cat 977H (had roller frames welded to the crossmember), I'm not buying anything that I don't get underneath and inspect. There's a 450C project local to me that I need to check out again. Owner was high on price when I looked at it last time, but it's got good bones.
The straight 450's were not good machines. Many many issues.