Got an old clunker grey market Hitachi EX 40 UR and it is hit and miss to get it going. Battery shows about 12.6 volts standing idle but sometimes when starting, after the glow plug lite goes off, all I get is a click down at the starter. Sometimes it will start, others, not. When this happens sometimes if i jump my battery with my truck, it will start. Sometimes, if i hold the key in start position for about 3 seconds it will then start. Today after 3 tries with the click result, I held the key on start for a few seconds and then lights out. Blew a 45 amp fuse and NAPA doesn't carry them, only up to 30 amp and the heavy equipment shop in town didn't carry them either, so i just bought a couple of self setting ones on Amazon and now have to wait 5 days till they get here. In the meantime, i am going to get a new battery since i read on the Forums that a "Good" battery should have around 13.5 volts at rest, so maybe after the glow plug cycle this battery is not giving enough juice to the starter. The starter is still the original so it might have a leak in there and here is the reason for my post: Is it normally a nightmare to get to the starter on this rig? Jeesh, it looks like I need to take off the seat (already did that) and now the seat box and everything attached to it wiring all over the place and looks like it will be a several hour job just to get access to the starter.. Anybody here run into the same problems with getting to the starters on their rigs? I am used to having to take off 6 things to get to the one thing I need to take off but...Yowee, this looks like it will take a while..
Before you do all that, you should check to see if you have a shorted out glow plug. You can check them with an ohm meter. A good plug will have some resistance. A bad plug will have none.
A battery in a machine that's not running will never read 13.5 when charging sure but not at rest
My first thought was a poor battery connection at one of the cable ends, and second was a starter solenoid that is at the end of it's service life. (in case you have not already checked these items)
Yes, bad info on the forum regarding a battery at rest having over 13 volts. Nonetheless, I bought a good 800 amp 3 year warranty battery today since I had a mechanic tell me he has had batteries that read 12.6 volts but they are defective anyway as far as getting a starter to do its thing. The battery had good clean tight connections but will top off the battery with my charger before i try to fire things up and my Fuse coming in from Amazon will be here Tuesday. It is rated for 45 amps like the old fuse but resets itself if tripped when load is taken off for a bit. It will require me to bypass the housing for the fuse holder and crimp in a couple of 0 terminals that fasten into the studs of the breaker. I could not find a replacement fuse through the major auto supply stores and heavy equipment shops. If I get a click again with the new battery, will try jumping it with my truck with engine running which worked in the past. If not, will have to tear half the cab apart to get to this starter...something am not looking forward to....
I have some large fuses can you send a picture. I'd bet your starter is bad have you tried hitting the starter test
A battery in good condition should generally register around 12.8v with the master switch & key off - with no current draw in other words. When the engine is running and provided the alternator is charging correctly then the measured value should be around 14.5v.
My excavator has a 'relay' as well as a solinoid. I'd check all the connections several times before I put a starter in.
I agree with what everyone has said about a battery never being 13.5 volts 'at rest', only when charging. Leave the volt meter connected and read the 'cranking volts' when starting (with a -GOOD- battery). It should be 'around' 10-11 volts, depending on engine and temperature. If it is a lot less than that the starter is likely bad and drawing too many amps. Of course if the battery is not capable, voltage will also drop a lot. There are battery/starter 'analyzers' for around $50 that will tell you the battery condition, charging condition and the cranking amps.
Cranking with a meter would also show a bad wiring connection. First confirm all conections and wires are good and clean. Charge battery and have it tested.
Yesterday Seth & I went to an old one time farm where the bachelor owner had died of Covid. The plan was to pick up a bulldozer. He said it ran, but engine clutch is stuck, can't get it into gear once running. There was a crane easily large enough to hoist the 13000 LB crawler. There was also a Michigan loader. We were assured they all ran & had been parked that week. Long drive, we had good batteries fully charged. Used up a battery plus a booster pack to get the dozer started to lift the blade. Crane wouldn't start. Loader wouldn't start. Electric motors (IE starters) are designed for specific voltage. Current (battery draw) is limited by magnetic choke. If voltage delivered to the windings in the starter is low, magnetic field is weak, magnetic choke fails to restrict amperage. Current rises sharply. This makes voltage loss in cables & connections much greater. You'll lose voltage in the cables, but the worst losses come where joints are made. Crimp connections where terminals clamp to stranded cable are an overlooked serious issue.
Thanks for all the replies. I will wire in the new reset fuse when it gets here and see if the starter works with the new fully charged battery. If not, I would not know where a "relay" to the starter is but have a friend who was a helicopter mechanic in the Army and specialized in electrical issues. He might be able to find the problem. Looks like there is some sort of "computer" under the seat and also a toggle switch but not sure what that is even for. Last year i had a problem where the machine would start but all the hydraulics were dead and it turned out to be a weak battery and bad alternator which did not serve up enough juice for the primary hydraulic pump circuits to kick in. The machine had the original alternator in and probably still has the original starter.
Just an update: My new fuseable link came in and I installed it plus topped off the brand new 800 amp battery and installed and still a no go. All the idiot lights come on, glow plugs activated and cycle to off but when i turn to start, just the same click coming from the starter. So the only way to get to the starter other than pulling the engine, is to take off the sea, then the seat frame box, unbolt from the side arm controls and remove the rear heat shield behind the seat. I took off 7 pieces just to be able to see the starter and find that the main hydraulic line going to the pump is in the way and also the exhaust manifold. I was able to unbolt the top bolt of the starter by coming in from the front with a double extension but i can't even see the bottom bolt from any direction and will try "fishing" for it today with the wrench and extensions.. Going to have to put some sort of towel under the area I am working in since if I drop the bolt or my tool, it would be almost impossible to get it out. Once I get the starter out will take it to the auto parts store to see if they can test it. Even though it will be expensive to replace, I am hoping this is the problem other than some mysterious wire connection deep in the bowels of this thing that is the problem. I recently replaced the alternator and got a knock off from NAPA for $130 and i think the Kubota brand was triple that price.
I'll say don't buy a cheap starter. As hard as it is to get to it you don't want to do it twice. There is still a chance the problem isn't your starter. I don't know where your solenoid is located, it could be the culprit. Your problem is consistent with bad cables or connections. Bad cables, solenoid, connections, or battery can ruin a starter. We deal with standby generators. Real common for a machine to have a bad battery AND a bad starter. I'm not there to prove which came first, but I believe loss of magnetic choke causes high current in the other components including the starter. High current, no work being done, most of that energy becomes heat inside the starter. 2017 we went through an old bulldozer in winter. It got new cables, all shined up connection points, new starter, two new HEAVY batteries. It remained a hard to start nightmare. I'd take batteries out, charge them, warm them up, it'd start right up. One cold winter day that remedy didn't work. I went through the starting circuitry checking everything, every connection. Almost back to the batteries, under the seat where it took about an hour of wrenching to access, the bolt connecting negative battery to ground, nut was only started. Tightened the bolt, It now starts like a dream! I immediately knew what happened: The phone rang. Answer the phone, when you get back to what you were doing, you forget where you left off. As an electrician, after finishing all connections in a project, go back with a torque wrench & check tightness. Torque is critically important in electrical connections. "1/4 turn before it strips"
Corroded or loose connections were the first thing i looked for and everything was cleaned with emery cloth and snugged down tight. The solenoid is on the starter and in the worst position, blocking the one bolt at the bottom i need to remove the starter. I think I can get to it with a stubby box wrench if i disconnect the 1" hydraulic line coming from the pump but i am concerned it would introduce air into the hydraulics and don't want to make matters even worse. It is almost like I need to lift the entire engine up 3" to get the starter off. Who are these idiot engineers that design these things?. I agree, not going to put in a cheap Chinese knockoff starter since this is a nightmare to get to the starter so don't want to deal with it again anytime soon. I will have my neighbor the Kubota mechanic take a look at it ...maybe there is a special tool or something I am just not getting here but had another guy look at it today and he is stumped too. Trouble is, over the last year the starting issue was a hit and miss but one thing held true...once the machine was up at operating temperatures, when shut off it would always start. never had a problem if the engine was warm. Now that I can see the starter I will give it a few raps with a hammer when trying to start. I heard that sometimes it is in a bad spot and just a vibration of the hit, like the expansion of the metal when warm makes it go but nonetheless, the starter needs to be rebuilt. From disassembling the parts to get where i am it looks like I am the first to do this and this machine is around 30 years old i am guessing so a starter is bound to be on its last legs.
I have a Kubota diesel in a skid steer I use on the farm that has the same or similar starter issues as you describe. A friend who knows Kubota well was telling me about the unique solenoid setups on those starters, there is an internal copper (moving) part that gets corroded from use and does not make contact anymore. I can't remember what it is called but when I took it apart his advice made sense to me. He said take it apart and clean up this part in the lathe, I used emery cloth instead, put it back together and it worked, for a while. Now it is acting up again. I rap the starter and solenoid with a small hammer and that usually gets it going, if not I boost it and that always works. Just getting that extra voltage or amperage seems to be enough to overcome the corrosion. In my case the starter is fairly easy to get at so I choose to monkey with it instead of shelling out 4-500 dollars. In your case where it is so difficult to get at, I would put a new Kubota starter in.
Commutator. If you are lucky, that's what fails in your starter. It's where the brushes ride.
Snow Farmer: Yeah, I think our starters have the same "disease". It is supposed to be raining tomorrow so until I get the Kubota mechanic out there to figure out how to extract this starter, i think I will hook up the battery and give it another shot while tapping on the starter now that it is exposed. Even if i can get it to start, i will still have to exchange it but would be nice to know that I found the problem. Electrical gremlins are the worst, especially if you have not knowledge of how they work other than how to hook up the negative cable to the negative post of the battery....real basic simpleton stuff. Talked to a mechanic today and he said there are other things out there that require ridiculous things to get to parts, some GM products require you remove the cross member to get to a starter etc. I still say that the penalty for the engineers who design machinery this way should be nothing short of the Death Penalty...or they at least be required to pay for replacement labor owed due to their design...
Nope, curb stomp them, nail their testacles to a stump, push them over backwards, feed them massive doses of laxatives, while water boarding them. Feed them rat poison. Dump their rotting bodies on the lawn at engineers school, with a note.
Just an update on the saga of the Kubota starter.. After about an hour of excruciating pain I was able to dig that thing out of the bowels of the track hoe. I gave it to my neighbor who is a Kubota mechanic and he took a peek inside and said the contacts were in pretty bad shape so I took it to a starter rebuild center up north and they called and said it is ready for me to pick up. $90 to have it rebuilt so guessing new brushes etc but it is the original Made in Japan starter and would rather have that rebuilt than buy a Chinese knock off for the same price with their Harbor Freight warranty of 90 days. I think I still other electrical gremlins inside the wiring though. I energized the switch and put a volt meter to the small wire that attaches to the starter to engage it. It should have read volts when i turned the key all the way to the spring loaded right which is start position but it showed nothing. I ordered a start push button switch to bypass the ignition switch altogether since it must have a bad connection somewhere and was the underlying culprit with the "sometimes it will start, sometimes it won't " scenario. When I get the starter, I will first try with the old wire, ground the starter and hook up the heavy battery cable to it and hit the switch just to be certain. If a no go, will put in the by byass push button. That "clicking" sound I thought was coming from the starter when it was still in the engine was not coming from there but apparently some thing to do with the hydraulic pump on the engine, probably energizing some on-off flow valve?