Hey guys, I'm looking for a 4-5 ton excavator to rack up some hours in and use around our property, and then eventually use for my business as I grow it more that direction. I found a Cat 304.5 that seems like a pretty good deal, but I've learned that there are many much more experienced people on this forum than myself, so I just wanted to post up the machine to get some feedback on it. Caterpillar 304.5 excavator hydraulic thumb break over boom front push blade just recently had four cylinders resealed runs excellent starts up in any kind of weather 3300 hours asking $15500 Thanks in advance for any help! Oh, and I'll mainly be working on driveways, digging out ponds, and doing forestry work with it. Courage
that looks to be a grey market machine, based on the non-ROPS lid over it. US market machines had ROPS. Just saying so you know when comparing apples to apples. Sealing cylinders at 3200 hours is nothing to brag about either. All that makes me suspect some BS.
I greatly appreciate your help! I'm new to all if this, so bear with me here. For a starter machine that I'll be the only operator of, would no ROPS concern you? Is a grey market machine a bad thing? I didn't realize Cat would make any grey market machines... are they talking about the boom cylinders? What would be normal hours to do that at?
Parts may be hard to come by for a grey market machine. Get the serial number and go try to buy something at the dealer. No ROPS is not a good idea IMO. I don't even consider them. It is a false economy to try and save money like that. Forestry work is a great place to get your ass killed with a cheesy rainshield over your head. ROPS is not just about roll over protection.
You might want to read through my thread. Repaint, import, auction, then resold (to me): HeavyEquipmentForums "1600 hours" yet the tracks were shot, bucket well worn. Things to look at - learn from my mistakes Also, is the seller local and legit? So many scams.
You did OK @Baxsie but you do have a certain "stick-to-it-ness" about you. I just want it to be clear, this machine is not what you may be comparing it to, OP. Don't look at those much higher priced machines and mistake them for a bad deal. It is the other way around.
Oh, that makes sense about the serial number Oh wow! I hadn't thought of the forestry aspect i was just thinking that our property is completely flat... I get why ROPS is a have to. I'll do that
What fo you mean about this machine being different from what I'm comparing it to?
Are you looking at more expensive machines that are not grey market? how did you figure out this was a good deal?
I don't know that mach about larger equipment, so as ignorant as this is, I did not realize that it was a grey market machine. I was hoping to find one for 20k or less. I had just been looking for a 8-10k lb machine that looked not totally destroyed and had less than 5k hrs... it fit all of those criteria, and was one of the only ones I could find that did fit those criteria, so I assumed it was a good deal.
It still might be a good deal. Just be aware of condition and as much provenance as you can. Maybe get the CAT SIS2GO app, put your serial number in, and see if common parts show up as available? If you post your serial number, and maybe a pic of the serial number plates, then @Nige might be able to tell you more about the machine. But if you need ROPS -- and you do -- it might be good to look at others.
Get a Serial Number, then we can start looking at technicalities.......... "Grey market" can mean different things to different people. Once you have a S/No (get a photo of the plate if at all possible) a lot can be identified regarding the provenance of the machine.
None of that puts a safety over his head that is worth a crap, and he mentioned forestry. I said my piece now and will fade on out of here.
Personally, couldn’t imagine using that machine without a cab.
Keep looking, you can do better. (but will likely require a higher budget...) and a long search. Personal inspection critical, with someone who knows how to do an inspection. I once owned a Komatsu pc28uu with that style of "fisher price" rain cap. Never again. Not safe for any bush work (especially for a new operator)....While you are 'focussing' on that small tree/branch in front of you (at the bucket) a 4" 'jager' is coming right at you from an oblique angle! Those small machines have very little reach so all the work is 'right on your machine' Be safe, good luck!
Literally, what kind of work could you do with, that it wouldn’t need a cab? I would be afraid to load a truck with it. Admittedly, the price and size is very appealing, almost attractive enough to source or build my own cab.
I just had a closer look at the photos. The "REGA" sticker on the counterweight is the clue. This is a "true grey market" machine that was built in Japan and only for sale in the local market. Usually it is possible to find parts & service documentation for machines such as this, even if said documentation is only available in Japanese. Not in this case - for this animal nothing exists. On the basis of that information my advice would be to walk away now.
Wouldnt it be better to look for a machine with more hours, possible older, but still in reasonably good condition? Can you do basic repairs and maintenance yourself?
If you can stretch your budget to $20-25K that will open up a lot of options. I'd look for a 15-20 yr old Kubota, Takeuchi, Hitachi, Deere, etc. You should be looking for older, higher hour machines that are well kept. I've seen mini excavators go upwards of 10,000hrs with proper maintenance and a good operator. I'd gladly take a Kubota KX121-3 or Tak TB240 that was in good shape with 5000hrs on it vs the machine you posted.
Are you quite sure it as actually a Cat?
Yes, y'all have brought to my attention that I need ROPS, so I'm looking at others and have crossed this one off the list. I'm going to look for a different machine. I greatly appreciate your help! I'm now only looking at machines with a cab or ROPS. I will keep looking. Thanks! I understand that now. Oh, interesting. What exactly does REGA mean? I'm thinking that's my best bet at this point. I do all of my own repairs for my work trucks and other equipment, so that's the plan. Oh wow! That's good to know. You didn't include Cat in your list? Was that on purposem I am unsure of that now... Thanks a ton for all of your help! I really appreciate it!
@MG84 has personal experience with those machines. I know a few guys will chime in about Cat minis, but my personal experiences were not the best. Most of my mini hours are with John Deere by far, and certainly both the Kubota and the Taks next. They all get the job done IMO.
Ok, that is good to know! Would you guys recommend holding out for a ~9k lb machine? Or should I be considering say a 7k lb machine too? I ran my buddies Bobcat E43, and really liked it, so that's why I had a 9k lb goal...
REGA-tagged excavators were produced for the Japanese domestic market only by a 50/50 joint venture between Caterpillar & Mitsubishi known as Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi. They were never intended for export outside Japan but over the years a few escaped captivity and manged to cross the Pacific to land in North America and also in Australia/New Zealand. This all took place before 2012 when Caterpillar started their own dedicated assembly facilities, now simply known as Caterpillar Japan.
Oh wow! So did cat not make a domestic market 304.5? Thanks a bunch forthe info!
Cat actually manufactured two different 304.5 models for the "World" market (which would include the US domestic market), but they were both badged "304.5", not a 304.5B like the one you were looking at. A big difference. The World models jumped straight from a 304.5 to a 304.5E2 model in 2016, completely missing out all the letters in between.
it depends on what your typical job is. If you plan on doing a lot of clearing and thumb work, heavier is better. If you want to strategic jobs, the extra 10" width and 20" length can bite. My boss suggested we go bigger when we got the 35 mini. I said no. 50 is not going to fit in some places a 35 will.
Oh wow, ok, so would you guys consider a 304.5 that's not a B model? Ok, hmmm! This is interesting. So would you guys say a 9k lb machine is the most versatile size? Or would I be better getting a 6 or 7k lb machine and then down the road get a 12k or larger machine once I have my cdl and larger hauling capabilities?
you really have not given enough info on the work to hazard a guess.
Parts & service information exists for both the two above-mentioned 304.5 models plus the 304.5E2 model.
Ok, sorry, I was just meaning if that model of machine is known to be problematic or anything... Right on! I'll post up a couple of other machines in my area, just to get y'all's thoughts on them. I'm sure you guys will see lots of stuff that I'm missing.
$21k Runs good getting ready to upgrade one bucket included can deliver if needed 4800 hours have owned about 8 years I believe it’s it 2002 $16,500 American market 2008 vio 35 Mini excavator Approximately 7-8000 pound machine Hydraulic Quick attach Has a weep at the quick attach cylinder. It’s a hose or the cylinder seal haven’t looked to closely yet. 2 foot bucket Around 5600 hours The machine runs very good, Motor and hydraulics are very strong Will run all day Still in use hours will keep moving No trades Moving to a bigger machine Machine is usually on a job will have to schedule a time to meet $17500 This machine has 2500 hours which is very low for its ago. 18 inch bucket with a thumb. New tracks and regular service. We have used this machine for 5 years trouble free. $28,500 2018 one owner 35g Deere mini Wedge coupler Long stick Extra counter weight 2 way blade Rubber tracks Ready to work 3206 hrs No trades
17,500.00 firm 1997 bobcat three 325x excavator with thumb and grading blade. New seat. New boom cylinder. You won't find an excavator with this low of miles anywhere for this year's machine. $14k Pc 30 Komatsu 4990 hours $19650 Selling a Yanmar 33 vio with 4000 hours. Excavator comes with two buckets. One 15" and a 36" clean out buckets. Has a one way blade. Metal track with rubber inserts. I assume you guys will have some thoughts on which ones to run from and which ones might be worth looking into. Any that you think might be decent, I can post up the other pics of. Thanks again for all your help!
Unless you are working inside or along buildings, in backyards with narrow access, etc get the largest machine you can that you can safely haul. I'm assuming you don't have a class A CDL, so should be looking at machines in the 4-5 metric ton class. These will weigh between 9-11k and will require a 14-15K trailer and heavy 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickup to pull. As I'm sure you've figured out, the model number roughly equates to the weight in metric tons, although most tend to run a little heavy. When you start doing any sort of land clearing, stumping, loading, digging in hard ground, etc the difference in performance between a 3.5t and a 5t is substantial. As for brands, I tend to prefer the Japanese built machines sold for the US market: Kubota, Takeuchi, Hitachi, Deere, Yanmar, even IHI/Kato. I don't have any experience with Komatsu mini excavators, I think they are pretty good but some did use some odd proprietary parts and electronics. The Japanese invented the mini excavator and IMHO still corner the market. Cat machines were other makes just rebranded until fairly recently, some were decent so were not. I've never been impressed with the Bobcat mini excavators I've run, they were ok but not great. Kubota KX121, KX040, U48, Takeuchi TB240, TB045, TB250, Deere/Hitachi 50 models, Yanmar Vio 40, Vio 50 would be some of my top picks in the age/price range you are looking at.
The machines with the extra boom or stick joints, just no.
When you find one you like, find out where the nearest parts / dealer is. Of course internet is always available, but you can't beat talking over the counter to a parts tech.
I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to share all of that information with me! It all makes sense. I don't have my cdl yet, so I do need to stay under those weight limits like you were saying. I especially appreciated your specific machine model recommendations! Oh, I didn't notice that part. Again, I'm a total novice! Oh, good thought! I'll do that! I know locally we have a John Deer, Cat, Case, and Bobcat dealer, but i don't know about any others... I had kind of been hoping to pick up a mini ex this year, and then a CTL next year, but I've been struggling to find a good deal on an excavator at the moment. I think i might have found a pretty good deal on a CTL though, so I think I'm just kinda going to take a multi pronged approach and just try to get whichever I can get the best deal on first since they would both be useful to me.
I would heed @MG84 's list of recommended units. My list would be basically identical, we have owned and operated all of those machines (except Takeuchi...and I have heard nothing but good reports on those). Unfortunately for us ,the nearest dealer (I have seen is 400km away in the Vancouver area) Personally not a fan of Bobcat (would be my last choice). I rented a brand new 4.5t for a week when I was up in the Yukon back in 2016, it was very unpleasant to operate in regards to the hydraulic 'feel'. Granted it was a rental unit and maybe was set up badly??? I agree also fully with @skyking1 ; avoid any with articulating boom/sticks (grey market). The Komatsu we had was actually nice for loading height as the boom is pinned to the right of the operator (similar to a full size excavator)...but a lot of extra pins/bushings, as well as a fair bit of extra weight of high. Remember a 10 minute personal inspection will tell you more than any amount of pictures/written descriptions... Maybe check out your local dealers for used units...We found our 210 (Hyundai) and 50 (Deere) at Finnings (Cat) and Brandt (Deere) respectively. Better/same pricing as the private market and no worries about stolen, sketchy history etc..
My 2 cents: Steel or Rubber tracks? I prefer steel hands down over rubber now that I've used both. When I'd only used rubber tracks, I thought they were better. Forest service around here requires rubber tracks below certain sizes, so I'll never get a FS contract (Oh woe is me). That said, steel tracks take a hell of a lot more abuse, but also damage everything they touch. rubbery tracks don't do much ground damage, but get screwed up by sharp rocks and debris piles if the operator is ... new or careless. Go look at a rental fleet in your area. look at the tracks - see what they use. ask them what their preference is.