Was over to the gent's house where I'd purchased my dozer and he has a hydraulic box scraper from Strobel I'd noticed. I found their website and they make smaller scrapers that would work behind a larger tractor, or dozer. I don't have a tractor large enough myself but have family members that do and could be borrowed easily enough. Although these are wider than I'd like I could deal with that as have a 10' wide blade on the dozer. They have 8.5, and 12yd variants in both drawbar pull, and dolly pull styles. I don't know anything about any of these but am going to follow up with them later this week for pricing and availability. I don't need new, but now have something to start from. Here is a video found on Youtube: And a link to their website for the Forced Ejection Scrapers: – Forced Ejection | Strobel Manufacturing www.strobelmfg.com
That looks like ideal conditions for any scraper. I wonder if they would hold up under tougher conditions/hard cutting
A couple years ago I had a scraper go down towards the end of a job. A farmer friend of mine had a 12 yd strobel that I used to finish the job. I don't know how old it was but it was far from new. It worked very good and it seemed to be very well built. That is the only stobel that I have been around. I would consider them to be on the upper end for a farm type scraper. I would assume the strobel box scrapers would be built just as good.
Thanks for the responses. That box scraper is well built with 3/8" back and sides. The cutting edge bolts on and the welds appear first rate. It was purchased used from a local contractor than wasn't using it. My former dozer owner purchased it to maintain the long roadway to their property and it does a good job with this task. I have discovered Birkey's in Bloomington, IL sells the brand and I've known the construction equipment salesman there many years. Actually purchased my 1845C via him directly from Case Credit before the repossession could take place. Saved a few bucks that way and would like to give him the business if possible. Thanks,
Talked to the guy I know this afternoon and he has sold a few of the Strobel brand scrapers, and gave me a contact to go visit with who purchased one less than 50 miles distant. I will take advantage of that. Nothing used around he is aware of in this size, but I'm now in his book looking for one and he does survey his customer base for needs and surplus very regular without being a PIA.
Talked to Strobel quite extensively today. They are definitely aimed at the farm type operations rather than heavy road construction. Not a problem for me and I get the impression the 12yd unit would work well for my application. Was talking with the company owner and he is asking for drawbar size, style, and hitch pin sizes on the dozer. I'll be at the tractor this weekend and will retrieve the dimensions. The gut feeling is being a tracked machine it will work fine although less in engine power output than they recommend. Also talked to my buddy salesman and he used to sell "Ashland" scrapers. Has found one of these in good condition he sold new and is now available. No price but it is 10, or 10.5yd so another candidate. Never have seen one of these either but it is not a dolly type and bears directly upon the pulling unit drawbar.
Don't compare hp directly from a rubber tired tractor to a crawler tractor. Weight would be a closer comparison, crawler will operate slower and less slip, so less hp needed for the same size machine. never heard anything bad about an ashland either
Agree 100%. I've pulled implements in the past with both a large farm tractor, and the same implement with a crawler. Much less slippage in the same earth with the same crawler. Our first conversation there was reservation of doubt. When I mentioned 20" pads with 1.250" deep grousers, 96"+ track length, and 33K in weight, the reservations subsided. It then switched over to style and fabrication of attachment point, (drawbar). Mine is rigid and not a swinging type drawbar fabricated from 1" plate: What would your thought be on the dolly style, or direct bearing pull type scraper?
For what its worth, i would not use a direct mount on a crawler and only use a direct-mount on an ag tractor if a special scraper hitch adapter is used. Depending on the scraper, most ag tractors are not designed to carry a lot of weight on the drawbar. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with a dolly-type front wheel scraper
I agree, a dolly is easier to hook up, easier on an ag tractor. A direct mount will give you better performance, and is the only way to go for production. I'm assuming you're getting a smaller than max size for the dozer, so I'd get whatever comes along, ease of hitching vs harder to back up is the biggest issue in this case. you're not planning to get the pan stuck in soft ground trying to stay on schedule.
Thanks guys. I'm not looking for maximum production at all and this is more of a family project really. I myself kinda favor the dolly wheel setup as it is seemingly easier on the pulling unit not absorbing 100% of the torsional forces on both the vertical, and horizontal planes. Either setup has a rotating type hitch on their tongues which allows twisting and turning over uneven ground. Kinda/sorta like the hitch on my motorcycle pull trailer to allow leaning in a turn, but much larger. I've not really evaluated any backing up as where the need will be is long straight runs and plenty of flat area on both side of the creek for turning around. Definitely something to consider however. I actually don't want to get the maximum size the dozer can pull and prefer to undersize just a bit. The tractor is old and parts are not as easily obtained as something more modern. Really want to operate in a cautious envelope so to speak. A broken tractor cannot perform work I'm thinking, so will be easy on it as myself and family will be the only operators. I was delivering a new New Holland mini ex this afternoon and seen an "Ashland" towed scraper off on the frontage road. I stopped and looked at it on the return trip and although much larger than my needs, was very heavily built. Never have seen one of these in the past but it was a front dolly setup. I didn't see any dozers but there were a couple of dual wheel large articulated tractors there. I don't know if this is a large farming operation, or an excavating outfit as nobody was around to ask any questions. I did find a dealer decal so going to call them tomorrow. When I finish typing this I'm going to hit the internet for some research on their products. Thanks kindly for any input thus far.
Looking at Ashland's website they seem to jump from 9.5cyd ejector scrapers to 14cyd units. Here is a link to their 9.5cyd towed scraper I'm going to inquire about: 950XL2 – Ashland The 950XL2 has a history of proven performance that you can rely on for all your agricultural applications. Designed to be pulled by your front wheel assist tractor, the 950XL2 is Ashland’s smallest ejector scraper for your farm and field. It’s narrow width allows for maneuverability through... ashlandind.com
One of my customers has a 9 yd Ashland dolly type scraper that is probably 5 yrs old. I have used it a few times and it seems to work just fine. I do know that the 12 yd Strobel that I spoke of earlier is built quite a bit heavier than the 9 yd Ashland. I realize I'm kind of comparing 'apples to oranges' (9 yd vs 12 yd) but the Strobel was alot beefier all the way around. A few yrs ago I was helping the aforementioned customer do the grading for a new shop. They were pulling the Ashland with a big front wheel assist tractor and cracked one of the main beams that angle from the front down towards the side of the bowl. Basically almost pulled the scraper apart. I don't know the horsepower requirements for that scraper but I would guess that it was too much tractor for it. Since you mentioned you have access to bigger tractors a dolly type scraper would allow you to easily switch to one of those if needed vs a direct mount.
I must have been typing during your last post. That is the exact scraper that my customer has. It cracked on the black side beam about where the 'S' is on the Ashland decal. FWIW
Thank you Bam. This is the kind of information I'm attempting to research to not duplicate the damage. My target for some reason is about a 12cyd capacity with the hp and weight I have available. I have two uncles with larger tractors that could be borrowed at will and they both tell me they have work if I purchase one of these scrapers. I really have never operated one myself so the whole world is a new experience for me. When speaking with Mr. Strobel himself his main concern was the hitch on the rear of the dozer. I sent him the same photo I'd posted earlier of the rear of my tractor, (dozer). I need to call him back tomorrow as was busy with deliveries all day today to discuss if this existing is adequate, or another needs fabricated. I receive a text from my buddy, (whom will sell me the Strobel unit if settled upon) as he did make contact and speak with them for a cost. Mr. Strobel and I discussed a few things he thought would be beneficial such as larger tires so may take a few days for an actual cost to me of the product. With both your positive review of the Strobel, and honest interpretation of the Ashland units, I'm kinda inclined to look at the Strobel unit closely. I did find out the Strobel unit I can look at is a direct mount and I'm kind of inclined with the dolly mount as see it as easier to use overall. Learning as I go as they say but really appreciate the input to guide the decision. May seem odd to look at new given my lack of knowledge, but I tend to run till something is worn out and can't be rebuilt any longer. I'd much rather have a usable piece of equipment like this which can be incorporated into a large family project rather than say a new pickup truck. Here is a new but unsold Ashland we have been discussing: 2020 ASHLAND 950XL2 For Sale in Bertrand, Nebraska 2020 ASHLAND 950XL2 For Sale in Bertrand, Nebraska at MachineryTrader.com www.machinerytrader.com Thanks,
I pull a 14 yd direct mount Reynolds scraper with a 4WD steiger. I'm to cheap to buy a new scraper hitch drawbar for the tractor and have not come across a used one. I have the drawbar supported because otherwise there is way too much weight on it with the scraper loaded. I think you are on the right track with a dolly type scraper but according to your pic I think you would get along just fine with a direct mount on your dozer. Esp since your hitch is so close to the back of your machine. If your dozer goes down and you want to hook to a tractor it would prob be more of an issue with the direct vs the dolly.
What I've been kind of thinking is the weight of the machine being 32K, the weight of a scraper about 15K, and about 12cyd of material at about 2500# a cubic yard, and using a generic figure of 1.3 times tractor weight for the tractors drawbar pulling force of it's weight. Lots of liberties taken but using the figures this would mean the tractor is tugging 45K without any cutting forces impressed upon it other than rolling resistance. How much force is exerted when the bowl is empty and the cutting edge is working I really don't have any idea of how to compute? I'm thinking the dozer should be able to pull about 41,600 pounds at the drawbar hitch so may be a little heavy but I don't know anything for certain. All except tractor weight are assumptions at this time.
Going to forego the 12yd scraper idea as my tractor is deemed to small for this application. Turns out my computations are not far off and although I would have the drawbar pulling force needed, the tractor would be at the extreme end of it's performance envelope. This equates to a very slow travel speed, and elevated operating temperatures of the machinery. I find neither appealing. Have found, (via reference) a 10yd scraper to look at which is a better size for this tractor allowing a window of cushion to operate within.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you end up with and how it works out.
Thanks. I want to match the tractor to the implements for most efficient use.
When using a decent sized rubber tired tractor I don't think you would notice much difference between a 10 yd vs 12 yd scraper under 'normal' conditions. I have never pulled a scraper with a crawler though.
fwiw. i have a small soil mover direct hook up to pulling unit 4 yard heaped. does not work well in close quarters behind a crawler because of the short tongue it takes far to much room to turn it around. a dolly type would be much more suited for use with a crawler
I was furnished a handbook of engineering data to work with and help with calculations. It gives drawbar pulling forces required for different types of soils vs depth, and width of cut. To pull a 12yd scraper when full just before stopping the cut requires just over 40K of drawbar pulling force on the horizontal plane and this is where pulling unit weight and traction is a large player. I have published data on the tractor. The target towing speed of a production scraper in action is between 4.5, and 6.0mph but I don't know if this speed is during the cut, or transport to dump area? To attain 42K of drawbar power my tractor is down to .56mph in low gear. Based on this information, it is why the tractor is deemed unsuitable for the 12yd scraper. Of course any manufacturer data is based upon ideal conditions, perfect, or new equipment without wear, etc. All thing equal, a 10yd scraper would require less power from the tractor being narrower in the cut width and less weight in the bowl. This data of course is variable upon scraper design. However, a 10yd scraper may still be too large given the target cutting speed desired for this tractor. Being that I'm not looking for production speeds there are tolerances available and I have yet to evaluate this scenario.
Was looking online for comparative data and found a common farm tractor around here being a New Holland T8-300. To use the same 14K drawbar criteria as my 140hp dozer provides requires 191hp at the flywheel for the same pulling power to the implement. However this same pulling power is at 5mph in eighth gear with dual rears. This is also unballasted with the front wheel drive engaged. There was less than 3% slip in these tests. I don't know percentage of ground slip in dozer testing as don't have that information. A T8 series New Holland is a real "horse" of a tractor for sure and they are quite heavy. I've delivered several and hauled them in for service, but they are nowhere near 30K in weight.
In my opinion, your cutting speed should be slow unless you are in sand and have to pump the bowl. If you snag a large stone or deadhead, and rip the drawbar off the tractor, you will be having a bad day
I certainly agree but don't have any idea what is normal, or acceptable. No production involved so speed certainly is not a make or break contributor, or leading particular, but is a player non the less. I've never pushed anything with this dozer yet, nor even had it in high gear at speed. At this point just relying upon other's experience and published data to finalize opinions. Any input is appreciated and none is discounted. Thanks,
It seems like in my neck of the woods that the scrapers you are looking at seem to hold there value pretty well. That always seems to help in the decision making process. That being said, you could buy a 'decent' Terex TS-14 for half the money. Use your dozer as a push cat and at least double.... maybe triple your production vs a 10 yd pulled with your dozer. Obviously there are downsides like 2 more engines to maintain etc.
I'd seen where finding something that doesn't have a lot of wear to it is pretty close to new pricing. That is probably the main reason I'm entertaining/looking at new heavier than used as of recent. I've located a few inventories that some "deals" can be had to move them. After my projects are complete, then hopefully it can be sold off for a decent return. Here is a short video I seen on youtube w/a D6C as the pulling unit. My tractor and this series competed in the same market segment so assuming performance would be very close. Interesting to see how these actually work. So far most of the scrapers pulled by dozers have been the dolly style:
Received a text today for pricing on a new Strobel 12yd scraper and that is not going to happen in my lifetime. I also asked about their 8.5yd unit but no response to that. Far too much $$$ for a part timer to have. Found, (or should say uncle found) a used but almost new and in excellent shape "Holcom" 8yd scraper that was purchased and found to be too small so another larger unit was purchased. I need to call the owner tomorrow for a price. It is in Illinois near my uncles place and about 20 miles from where the work is needing done. Here is a link to Holcolm: https://holcombscraper.com/product/model-800/ For now however, the search continues.
Found these two videos. Looks like when he starts the cut the back tires are off the ground and it's sliding on it's belly. Seems like that might make it hard to cut while transitioning from a flat to a downhill slope. thttps://youtu.be/2A0u5zUzkfE
Thank you. I would agree and seen the hinge point for the rear frame on their website. Not so sure that would fit all needs but again lack of experience. On the job I'm anticipating there is loading on the down slope, and dumping on both the up, and down slopes from the creek at the bottom. According to my uncle the excavation company that purchased this one builds ponds and such for livestock brooding and feeding.
I don't have a facebook account myself. My daughter does and forwarded several links from there in "Marketplace". I should say there is surprise on my part as never knew something like this existed. I've heard of "Marketplace" in the past, but it's always been involved with baby clothes, appliances, and such; never with anything like construction equipment for sale. Many of the links appear to be by private owners also so the scope is broadened for search.
Reverting back to an earlier posting in my first inquiries to a scraper; the one I looked at that was being converted to hydraulic but not finished is a "Heil" brand. That name is popular around here in both dump bodies, and tank trailers, but until this I'd not seen that name on anything else. I spoke with the selling party of the Holcolm scraper and it doesn't sound as something I'd like. As mentioned, to start a cut you drag it on it's belly with the rear wheels elevated. It is not, (as I'm told) very aggressive in starting a cut and kind of lacks when transitioning from a horizontal to a slope. The guy said that once a slope is established it does very well as it is not "top heavy" when heaped full. It was just not large enough for their needs. I forgot to ask what they purchased for it's replacement.
I suppose putting smaller tires on the front would help that, but unless you have some laying around already, that could get expensive.
Talked to my uncle this morning who has ran across a "Buffalo" brand 8-10yd pull scraper in southern Illinois. Never heard of them myself and this unit was talked about at the "Liar's Bench" over coffee with friends he meets each morning. It's about 40 miles from his house so going over to have a look.
We run a converted Letourneau Ls 11 yard scraper behind a 8030 New Holland FWA tractor at 300hp. Full set of weights on the 8030 and traction is still the limiting factor. In light soils or sod you can load the bowl so fast it almost flies out the back and heaps up past the hoop. In clay you are lucky to get a level load with it spinning as you pump load it. I think a 250hp 4wd tractor would be a better match as the traction would be much better and 300hp is not needed. I can hardly load it past 70% torque before it spins out with all axles locked. Our 4wd is 600hp so a bit scared to put it behind that.
That is interesting. Don't think I've ever seen an 8030 myself. Plenty of 8000 series and newer tractors however and with a full set of weights they make the trailer "swayback" so damned heavy. Couple their weight with 300+ in horsepower and it's a lot of pulling power. If you are lacking traction with that combination, these are a hard drag for certain. R. G. Letourneau didn't build anything light weight so that by itself is a load. Uncle has a T7-260 New Holland, and a cousin has an articulated John Deere something that is well over 300hp. Both raise cattle with uncle being a feeder operation, the cousin a finishing and market operation along with farming almost 3000+/- acres. I drive for the cousin during harvest and much of these interactions are driving this very subject of the scraper. Both could use new ponds, or enlargement of existing ones. Once a scraper is finally settled upon, there will be room for more pasture, and a lagoon also. This is an 8770 I repainted myself in 2020 and it pulls a scraper, but I don't know any more than that. It is local to me so next time I bring it in for service, I'll ask some questions. This is another cattle operation also. Photos are at, and in my shop:
This what i had. 9150 CaseIH & Isaacson KS1200 that i converted to hydraulic. I just sold the tractor but still have the scraper for sale
I may have to revisit that original "Heil" scraper I looked at in the weeds. Much of the hydraulic conversion from cable looks similar to what I've seen here. It is not raining now so maybe I'll get over there tomorrow.
2023 CUSTOM WELDING & FABRICATION FP700 For Sale in Bend, Oregon Welcome to MTC Sales. We specialize in used farm equipment ranging from tractors and hay equipment to land management implements. Whether you need to buy or sell, we can help you achieve your goals. Our inventory is continuously changing, so check back frequently! www.mtcsales.net Ran across this one on craigslist. It's 7 yards. I doubt you're interested but I thought it was an interesting way to lift the bowl. If nothing else, pans are always interesting to look at!
On that one, i’m not liking how far the router wings stick out so far ahead of the cutting edge and it appears there are no replaceable router bits