I thought of this agin today and wondered if anyone here had a answer ? Why back when alot of cars and pickups have 3 speed manual transmissions why was the first gear higher in a 3 speed than second in a 4 speed? A pickup with a 4 speed granny low first wasnt needed all the time and 2nd was good for normal take offs . I have owned several things with 3 speeds and years back owners manuals showed transmission gear ratios . I looked at every owners manual and repair manual i could find to find a 3sp with a 1st that was as low as a pickups 2nd in a 4 speed and never did find anything .
Because 3 on the tree was a passenger car transmission in a 1/2 ton, and only offered in 1/2 ton. Early on there were threes on the floor in pckups but those were all top loader transmission. Although Saab offered a 4 on the tree with a V4 Ford engine in many models in the 60's. The V4 Ford was actually a industrial engine-----------------------------------------------------and a turd. * And in the 50's some {speedsters at the time} thought it was a bright idea to flip the column shifter to the left side of column, so instead of lifting up/pushing up for second gear it was downward---a speed shift, hip daddy-o, 22 skidoo.
I have a couple ideas: 1. It was cheaper to pay Gomer Pyle to replace clutches than it is nowadays 2. Rear drive ratio/tire size may have been smaller to make up for the tall 1st gear
You left one out----In those years pickups were just that pickups--hardly anyone towed a trailer and if they did it was odd. These days the same vehicle comes in 150 to 550--prime mover with more gears than a semi.
I put a car 4 speed in a pickup that had a three on the tree so it had a 4 on the tree . Reverse was on a seperate lever so i operated it off a pto cable. My daily driver right now is a 1982 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4 250 six 3 speed. I dont know how many GM 4x4 had 3 speeds but i have only saw 2 the one i have and a buddys 1977 . I helped him replace it with a 350th automatic. I bought my pickup to drive while i was fixing up another . The low range in the transfer case helps. I tell every one that the guy that bought it new never test drove it or it would steal be seating on the lot.
Our 3 speed column cars and pickups down under here, always have the shift lever on the LHS of the steering column! Saw a taxi driver many decades ago, who drove his old "3 on the tree" Holden sedan, by taking off in 1st gear, accelerating the engine up to about 1500RPM in 1st - then dropping it straight into top gear! He was too lazy to make the effort to lift the lever up to 2nd gear!! Oddly enough, his old Holden taxi had done about 400K miles on the original 138 cu in, 6 cyl engine, and was still running just fine. My luck would be, if I tried his driving technique, the big end bearings would all be flogged out by 20K miles!! I'd have to opine the high first gear on the "3 on the trees" was reliant on the old-style engines torque to move off the line - whereas the 4 speed trannies were especially designed to get heavy loads moving, and particularly on slopes. Many 4 speeds in cars and pickups had a first gear that was too low for stating off, for everyday driving, anyway. I bought a new Holden 308 cu in V8 sedan in 1972, it was fitted with a "close ratio" 4 speed (manual). This was apparently selected to cope with the 240HP of the 308, because the engineers in GMH decided that the standard 1st gear in the "regular" 4 speed, couldn't cope with the torque/power of the 308 V8. However, GMH fitted a 3.36 rear axle to the car to enable reasonable takeoffs without major clutch slippage. This resulted in a 308 that chewed through fuel, and which revved way too high at highway speeds. (I might add, when I was 23, 90-100mph was a favourite travel speed of mine!) So ... I fitted a rear axle out of an automatic V8 Holden, which was a 2.73 ratio! The engine revs went back to around 2200RPM at 70mph - which made for great fuel economy! - but getting off the line in first gear, now involved a huge amount of clutch slip! - however, I could pull 60mph in 1st gear!! Mind you, it was great being able to pull 120mph in top gear, too!!
My pickup i think has 3.73 but it could have 3.40s with about factory height tires. It does ok on the high way. Tire size on a rig makes a lot of difference when things are not good.
Fond memories of the old 3 on the tree. Learned to drive one of those when I was 10 years old.
Chevy 1/2 ton down the road next to RR tracks when about 12. Four years later my uncle gave me that rusty piece of crap for first vehicle. To me it was worth a million bucks. Couple of years down the road when column linkage failed mounted one of them short little chrome shifters with the wood knob on the floor. Was cool if you had a chick sitting in the middle while shifting, three dudes in the front not so much.
There's a Meatloaf song in there somewhere.
This is my floor shifter after the column messed up on the guy i got it from . The plastic knob broke i turned this one out on my lathe . The Crow Royal shifter boot was his ideal.
Never had a three on the tree. My first car was a four on the floor '69 Charger R/T 440 Magnum, Dana 60 Posi, no A/C but did have a Craig Powerplay 8 track under the dash.
3 on the tree 4 on the floor my first ride was 4r100 with a 7 three most days or a 5 speed with a 2 speed rear and a 8.2 pincher
My first car on the floor, 1964 442. But my first was a 56 ford short box on the column. nmp *
I think the answer to your question stems from top gear direct. Top gear direct has no ratio, highway speed is determined by rear end ratio. For a three speed, which many cars and light trucks were back in that day, to get from zero to top gear direct requires a certain first gear ratio and an even spread ratio to second and another even spread ratio to third, which was direct gear, no ratio. Jump to a 4 speed, you've got more room for even ratio spread between the gears, which obviously allowed you to make first gear in a four speed a lower ratio than a 3 speed. This does not account for OD transmissions, which, I could be wrong, but I don't think any 3 speed was ever an OD transmission. And in many trucks back then, with 4 speed, first gear was a "granny gear", very low ratio for starting out.
3 speed with add on overdrive was common in the '50's.
Yes, add on, my point was, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a stand alone OD equipped three speed.
Overdrive transmissions were all Borg-Warner front to back. 1973 was last year-Ford only. Studebaker sold more overdrives with more options than any car manufacture. I had a BW in a 57 Ford Fairlane 2dr hardtop, with a 312. *
I stand corrected, was unaware of that. So that makes me ask the obvious question related to the thread, did that tranny come with a lower ratio first gear compared to a standard 3rd gear direct transmission?
Willie---there were two versions of the BW one was the R10 which was for autos, plus the R11 which was a slightly heavy duty model for pickups. I would suppose the R11 might have had a lower ratio 1st for the fact it was used as a heavier model. I know the R10 that I had was not all that low in 1st.
Or, and I'm no gearhead, and never been an automotive aficionado, but genuinely curious, is it the case the first gear ration was pretty much the same with other 3 speed tranny's, but since it had OD you could use a lower gear ratio in the rear end thereby giving you a low gear ratio for first gear compared to other 3sp tranny's but still have a good ratio, lower rpm, for highway speeds?
https://vintageautogarage.com/content/resources/Borg-Warner-Overdrive/Overdrive%20History%20and%20Operation%20R-10-R11.pdf
Most cars back in those years with manuals had rear ratios that hovered in 3.70 to 3.55. Compared to 60's 70's with a average of 3.08. Some Chryslers were 2.76 something.
A friend has a 1969 chevy c10 with a 3 speed OD on the column. He glued a togle switch to the knob and splits every gear like a 2 speed. I had a 1984 Dodge van that had a 4 speed like a 3 speed with 4 being a OD . It was a panel van it worked well and the ratios were good.