New D6T with the new emissions stuff just showed up today and the Cat Mechanic talked to us a little bit about it and it really doesn't sound good. Pretty much every 4-6 hours its gonna be down for at least 30 minutes doing a re gen. Given this is only when its not in a condtition when its in a hard push, but on a D6 expecially with a 6ways blade its not usually in a hard push. It's usually rubbing down slopes and finishing. This one in particular is gonna be knocking down base rock for the first week. Just wondering if anyone has any first hand experience with them?
I didn't get a chance to run it, but we had a 349 for a few months on field follow. My understanding on the regen is that it runs automatically as needed with no interference to the operation, unless you switch it to manual, in which case it may affect it, but not till it's almost at 100%. *edit... I realize a 349 is a hoe, not a dozer, but the tier IV system should be similar across the board on the machines.
I really would not believe much of what anyone said unless they have run the machine.I think all co. have got theiir stuff together here.I hope so
I did a regen on a d6t when it was only at 20% and it took less than 10 minutes. What you need to do, is do a manual regen at your convenience, at lunch or at the end of the day for example. It needs to be at least 20% but the lower it is, the quicker it is. Until we see enough of them in the field to get some good numbers we won't really know how often it needs to be done. it may be daily or every two days. There are factors that change this.
Well we've put maybe 3 hours on this thing so far but I also think the Cat mechanic was just trying to cover his butt too because he is responsible for all repairs on this machine. He did say the other day that the machine was at 40 percent and it took almost 45mins to regen. He said this will happen every 4-6 hours. You also have to hit the right perimeters for it to run a regen. On a Hoe and a 349 usually you are production digging I would think so you are constantly at those desired RPMS and engine load were the egt's are high enough. at 60-80 percent it derates the motor 50 percent and at 100 percent it derates the motor like 90percent then when it gets to 140 percent the dozer will not run but in 30sec burst and at this point you have to replace the whole DPF system. Now as the cabs they are extremly nice, theres a decelator next to your left thumb which I think wuld be nice. The only thing I don't think I'd like is the shifter is now a buton to move from forward to reverse instead of twisting the knob.
Equipment is getting way to complicated, glad I'm in my later years, I guess the new generation coming up won't know any different, for me just reading about it makes me sick.
About the 349 that jimbruce is referring to, when it first came on the job it was set up to regen for a bout a half within a 8hr day. After about a week of takin a lunch break and letting it regen.. they let cat know that it wasnt workin out that great and it needed to work straight through. So they came out and set up the computer to do the regen on the fly while working, and also have the choice to regen in between trucks or whenever needed. It worked out great then. With the dozer i dont know, but they will probably be able to have the same set up on them. And Kman, ur probably right about 6's not usually be in hard pushes most of the time, but our company uses them like there 8's haha.. so we would def. need a different setup.
I mean Im a younger generation I'm only 25 and started out on a 627B and then was given a 627F by far my favorite scraper. hardly any break downs and tons of power and I hate the wobble stick controls I like haveing all three. Form a mechaincs point of view this thing is a nightmare. Just to change the DPF system its a day of downtime for the dozer. I mean for smaller companies thats just not acceptable. A day to change a filter and the filter is 5000 dollars, your also leaving it in the operators hands to make sure that machine is operating right. its fine when you have a select few operators on them and you can trust them but what happens when your whole scraper spread are these machines, Not every operator is the sharpest tool in the shed. Also Everyday every scraper is down at least 30mins for this regen thing. I mean im sure cat will perfect it in the next 4-5 years.
her is a link to the new D6T with tier 4 technology and you do not have any downtime when the regeneration is set to automatic you can even set it to regenerate when you leave the machine and after it has finished it will shut off by itself http://xml.catmms.com/servlet/ImageServlet?imageId=C639671
I hope that is all correct but after the brief talk the Cat Mechanic gave us the other day some of that info isn't all correct.
I'm thinking maybe your mechanic needs to brush up on what it has and how it works. Most of it seems correct and we have it on our machines but is not activated from the factory. High speed regen, delayed shut down, idle shut down and key off regen are all disabled and will need to be enabled with ET if the customer wants it.
Lee, any idea why these features are disabled from the factory? Seems like things most customers would want.
The only reason i can think of is for safety reasons.
Run it Over the years training and working with mechanics and most other people the only way to really find out about something is to run it.20 people can be in a class and here the same thing and come out with 15 different answers Read the manual,check it out and then.run it and then tell us about it.
Are mechanics went to a 12hr training course in peroria for the tier 4 crap! He told us that cat is basically telling there customers what they want to hear, because they are trying to sell dozers, of course they are not going to give the customer the same training course as the guy thats going to be working on it!
I am glad that I am old enough that I won't have to deal with this much longer. With all of this coming on new machines and everything else to do with it makes it even more difficult to try and turn a buck.
Again people tend to hear what they want.I really don,t know of a major co.that puts out information for customers that is not to everyones interest.It seems to me that a lot of people look at tier4 as not needed.While I am sure their will be bugs lets run the units and then see where we are.
We have been through this before; with our cars. Remember in the 60s when you could fix your own vehicle? When you had lots of room under the hood and could make your own modifications? Remember when you could buy a good used car for less than $1000? And just how much has air quality improved? Visit L.A. or the inland empire in the middle of the summer & answer that yourself. Population control, (border control, not abortion) would have been a much better way to improve the air but that interferes with the tax and power base.
Ive been babysitting some IT4 gear for about 6 months now with no issues.....but we dont have the mexican border problem up here....i'll bet that's why.
what machines re you baby sitting??? Like was said erlier if you have machines that are in a steady push, or digging production, or under a constant load you wont have any problems because they will be in the RPM's and high enuff EGT's to run the regen cycle, on machines like a 6, or a blade, if you are finishing you are not putting that machine in the RPM and egt lever it needs to run a regen cycle to therefor you have to do it manually.
In the Operations and Maintenance Manual for the D6T it states that "Automatic regenerations can take place throughout the operating cycle of the engine." So I would expect that even during finish grading operations there will be automatic regeneration taking place unless the automatic mode has been disabled manually. Have you had time to see this automatic regeneration take place during the finishing operation?
No it can not! The dozer has got to be in the upper RPM's and be in the upper EGTS, and you cannot get up to 13-1400 degrees by pushing a few crums around, am i not be clear about this or what??? It will not run an auto regen unless you have a load on the tractor, and it can get hot enuff egts. And if you are in a push that lets it get hot enuff and it does run a regen in the middle of your push as soon as you get to the end of your push and back up, it resets the regen so it has to do it again. All this info is stright from a Cat mechanic that sat threw a 12 hour course. He also said cat isnt really worried about there larger machines since they are usualy under a load, its the smaller tractors that they are keeping a close eye on
So you guys finish grade in low idle? I'm curious as to if Lee-online has more info on the parameters, since he too is a Cat mechanic and has crawled all over one of the new 6t tier 4i's
Again your mech is a little confused. a D6T uses and active regen system. This means when it regens it sprays fuel through the ARD head where a spark plug ignites it. This is how the temp get up to 1000F inside the DPF. This is best done a low idle while the machine is in neutral. It will also do a high speed regen where it regens while the machine is working. It will not do a high speed if the machine is being worked too hard though. I think it needs to be worked less than 80% based on fuel settings but don't quote me on that. High speed regen takes longer and burns twice the fuel. This is why low speed regen is preferred and why high speed can be disabled through ET.
ARD head pics from my other post The rusty thing is the ARD head. you can see two fuel lines, two coolant lines and the spark plug wire.
Yup...I agree with Lee. Your mechanic should view this video. [video=youtube;cq7NOIgoXm4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7NOIgoXm4[/video]
Im just telling you word for word what are mechanic told us. And no we dont finish at low idle, we are wide open 2nd gear when we are finishing, but usually when you finish its pretty close (a few tenths) therefore you would be putting the dozer under a full load cutting a few tenth's. Unless you like to get it within a couple feet and turn it over to the finish crew jimbruce, but we like to get it pretty close before we pull the scrapers out and bring the finish crew in.
Ok i watched that and am a little confused on the high idle regen? So if you are working the machine to hard it will not do it? How will you know if you are working it to hard? And if you are working it in the right conditions that it cn do a high idle regen, what happens if you have to back up and hit the decel pedal, we were told that if you did that it would reset the regen and you will have to do it again? There are alot of variables and a few things that they made very unclear in that video. But i guess i will find out soon enuff, tommorow we are supposed to be firing it up, so will see how it goes!
Why ask us the questions.. ur mechanic will tell you
But, mabye you should watch it again. Its a 23 min video all about this stuff, whats not clear?! Where did you get working the machine to hard it wont regen and that you need the right conditions for high speed regen? It simply stated that if the dpf gets to 30% compacity and conditions are correct then LOW speed idle will/can occur. HIGH speed regen occurs at 70%, while the machine is running. Nothing about running it to hard. Have another look, and know what your talking about before you go on a rant, and waist our time reading it.
Low speed regen will only happen if you are in N and the parking brake is set, watch the vid! Also high speed regen will only happen if you are running the machine at 80% which means that whenever you back up if you are in a steady push it will reset the high speed regen and it will have to start over. And this is the first tier 4 machine are mechanic has seen, he really dont know much about it either.
But yeah your right i learned everything about tier 4 from that video, i could proably teach ppl about it just from watching that 20 mn vid! LOL, Next time re-read what i post and think about the questions i am asking before you make me waist my time reading and replying to your comment!
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Correct, which is the part where i said low speed regen will occur if conditions are correct. But anyhow i wouldnt start teachin people, cat will have all types of machines back in the shop for dpf replacments, hahaha
Have you even worked around them, or just seen them in the vid??? We have a tier4 6T and we are getting a tier4 140M which ill proably be on, then an E series hoe, havent decidided what size we want yet
Ive only worked around the 349E, like i said earlier in this thread. It was 1 of 4 demos that were sent out for field testing