I've gotten to the point where I'd like to invest in a TIG welder. I'm starting to do sheet metal work in both stainless and cold steel and would like to be able to weld aluminum up to about 1/4 inch. I've got a Hobart Ironman 230 MIG and a gas driven stick welder. I'm a hobbyist, repairing and fabricating for my own use and have a couple vehicles I'm working on restoring. What would be a good unit for my needs? Can a TIG pen be added as an accessory to the MIG? I'd consider a used machine too, my needs are occasional. Thanks!
You might want to search WeldingWeb. https://www.weldingweb.com/ When that question comes up, the recommendation is often a harbor freight machine- they say quality is decent and warranty solid. Aluminum tig requires hi-freq AC. MIG runs DC. Your Ironman will run a spoolgun, won’t it? TIG is certainly nice for thin material vs MIG. If you follow _weldman, you’ve seen the repairs he makes on aluminum trailers. I have a small Miller TIG w 160max output. Handles 1/16 and 1/8” aluminum okay w argon but not enough juice for thicker material. I’m a hobbyist, too. Others with greater skill/knowledge will point you in the right direction. Darryl
My Hobart actually came with a spool gun. I haven't used it yet. I've seen poor results MIG welding aluminum even from "professionals", that's why I figured TIG would be better for that.
On your gas driven welder, you should be able to setup a lift start tig to get you started tig welding on anything except aluminum. You can use an air cooled tig whip and set your machine to constant current. If you already have a bottle of Argon and a regulator, you could be tig welding for a couple hundred bucks. To tig weld aluminum without breaking the bank, you can look for an old Miller Dialarc with high frequency. You should be able to find one for $500. They are big and heavy, but run off of 240V single phase and actually weld very smoothly. If you want to buy something newer or smaller, one of the inverter type welders are pretty reasonable. There are a ton of Youtube reviews out there and it seems like this is one area where the overseas stuff is very competitive to the blue and red machines.
For aluminum you probably want a foot pedal to control amps. Some welders use a control on the torch. Aluminum takes a lot more amps than steel. If you want to do 1/4" aluminum you need over 250 amps of AC current. You also need high frequency. Inverters are the cats *** when it comes to Tig welding, especially aluminum and they use a lot less power. There are some good overseas inverter Tig welders. A lot of people have good things to say about Everlast welders and even Harbor Freight Tig welders. One of the Tig specialists on the Welding Web helped with the Harbor Freight Tig welders. Miller Dynasty series are really good if you found a used one. Make sure it works properly though. A Miller Dialarc 250 HF isn't a very good Tig welder but a Syncrowave 250 is a good Tig welder. A Lincoln Square Wave 255/275 is also very good. Lincoln had a Square Wave 175 that would be good for 1/8" aluminum but doesn't have a very high duty cycle when maxed out. If you find something post it and we can tell you if it's decent or not.
We used a Lincoln Square wave 180 doing .062 aluminum
This is how I went. Reason number one, no fancy electronic boards and modules. You can run one on 240 single phase, and 50 amp breaker, you just don't have full power if it is a 300 amp machine. The new fancy inverter machines with all the various wave forms are nice. It used to be a 700 now its an 800, this is the one I'd rather have. But I did not win the powerball, nor do I have good reason to have it. The dialarc is just fine. Oh and the Old Lincoln ideal arc is suppose to be okay, and equivalent to the dialarc in size and power use etc. Just make sure they are HF units, I think both come in 250 or 300 amp. https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/tig-gtaw/dynasty-800-tig-welders-m30129
The two R/stamp shops I work with use Miller 252 machines for cargo tank shell repairs and for 6061 tubing work. When I was at the oil company, Miller Dynasty 300 tig machines were the thing. Seems they were often broke down, so you needed two of them.
I bought a used miller . It had been a while so i thought i would just have the owner weld some thing with it and i would watch but he was showing some thing else he was selling and told me to try it . I did and it was like riding a bike . I bought it the argon tank didnt go with it so it was a while before i got one. I got it set up but some thing is wrong . It will not arc unless you touch the tungsten to the work ? I need mess with it some and or get some one to look at it. There is a freight salvage store near me that has had lots of tig rods cheap so i am stocked up .
Thank you so much
Try laying the Tig torch parallel with the part you're welding and then tilt it up till the tungsten gets close to the metal. It's common to have to scratch/ touch start a Tig torch. High frequency start for steel helps and needs to be continuous on aluminum. Don't know what welder you have but if it's made for Tig welding should have a switch for high frequency with 3 positions, off, start and continuous. Some newer machines have lift arc starting where you touch the tungsten and the arc starts when you lift it slightly off the plate. If you have a foot pedal (or hand amptrol) you need to step on it to get current.
I would not want a touch start TIG nothing, good way to pollute the electrode. HF is mandatory for Tig. My opinion.
It has a foot I need to try it agin . Its been a while I cant remember a lot about what i tried but I remember when i tested it that i didnt have to have the tungsten very close to the work and it arced but when i tried it at home I had to touch the tungsten and it really messed it up were it needed to be ground to a point agin.
I bought 14 years ago a Miller Diversion 180. The manager at Airgas assured me it'd be a fit for me. I wanted to weld aluminum. I found it to be a great little welder except for low duty cycle. I probably was able to weld 6" outside corner joint on 16 gauge aluminum sheet before I had to give it a rest. I found it to be a great steel welder, but steel was not my primary material. Steel doesn't require as much power as aluminum does. My son bought a Primeweld MIG, loves it. I feel if I wanted to TIG steel, I might choose a Miller Dialarc 250HF, or Lincoln Idealarc equivalent. Older transformer based machines are great for steel TIG.
If you have the room and the power abilities, you will not be disappointed with a Miller Dial arc HF or a Miller Syncrowave, with the latter having Squarewave technology, which is better than straight waveform. A Miller Dynasty would be the cats meow. The new inverter stuff, I hear is awesome but I grew up with transformer welders and will die with them. Too old to learn all them buttons.
I now have a Miller Dynasty 280DX. It is a great welder, 13 years I've had it I believe. A steel TIG does not need the features an aluminum TIG needs. You might use an air cooled torch for steel, You pretty much need a water cooler & water cooled torch for aluminum welding. I did weld aluminum with a Dialarc 250HF. The sine wave fixed at 60 HZ is not ideal for aluminum, you'll love a transformer for steel. Transformer based welders are very power hungry, while inverter based use half the input power. Some worry about all the electronics in an inverter welder being undependable. If you want to also be able to weld aluminum, look for: High ampere output. High duty cycle. Most are rated with duty cycle at less than full output, a 300 amp peak welder might have a 60 % duty cycle at 200 amps. Look for the best duty cycle. I want square wave supply, with adjustable balance. Aluminum is mostly welded with AC power. Sine wave power dies twice per cycle, 60 cycle dies 120 times per second. Shielding gas is a poor conductor, it must be ionized to be more conductive. Electrons are concentrated in the Electrode Negative half cycle. They are very effective at ionizing the gas. Electrode Positive half cycle, electrons are less concentrated on the greater surface of a workpiece, less effective at ionization. Square wave, the current never dies, it only changes direction, ionization isn't lost. HF, an overrunning High Frequency at high voltage / low current helps to maintain ionization. Adjustable frequency is a nice feature. High frequency narrows the arc cone, low frequency gives more penetration.
There is no arc on newer machines with touch start Tig. The arc starts when the tungsten is lifted. A minor touch won't contaminate the tungsten to where it has to be cleaned. There are thousands of x-ray pipe joints done in the field with Tig using just a plain DC engine drive welder. Touching the tungsten is inevitable and it won't be very often with experienced welders. As far as Tig welders a Dialarc HF is a basic low end machine for Tig. It will work but if you went to a Syncrowave would be a big step up. The Dialarc HF machines were being blown out at discounted prices when the Syncrowave 250 came out. I've heard a Lincoln Idealarc with high frequency is nicer than a Dialarc. Idealarc's are a little better for stick welding too. I guess it depends on how much you want to spend.
In steam boilers to lay the root and hot pass thats all they do most any pipe work in the field is hf less
Snycrowave ? I see many forsale cheap at times, but they are in need of circuit boards. There are places that fix them I suppose but?
13 or 14 years ago I still had a lot to learn about TIG. I asked everyone I could find. Dealers felt Syncrowave was the Rolls Royce of TIG machines. At the time the 250 was well over $5000. Airgas in Rutland told me about the Dynasty 280 new to the market. I had heard of the Miller Dynasty series, I wasn't believing a mailbox sized welder would do what an 800 LB would. They assured me it would. It certainly does! I've never actually used a Syncrowave, I do know it lacks a few features I consider important. Like any new invention, it gets refined, a better model comes to market, rendering the Syncrowave obsolete. My Dynasty weight 54 LBS, cooler about the same. It puts out 280 amps at 60% duty cycle. I love the Dynasty, but there are others with better prices.
Tungsten is cold in lift start, or even scratch start. There is no puddle to dip in until arc begins. While pipeline welders use it all the time, I don't think very versatile. It works best for rig welders welding pipe.
Dynasty 300 I think was the first Miller inverter Tig. Excellent Tig welder but not very good for stick welding. If the board went out was too expensive to replace. I know a guy who wore out a Dynasty 300. He replaced it with a Dynasty 280 and said the 280 was even better and put out more amps. Not sure how it was for stick welding as he never welds stick. Biggest negative is the price. Other than that he can use a smaller water cooled torch on the 280, he also has a Tig welder from a Canadian company, Canaweld and says that welder is just about as good at half the price with everything included. Canaweld welders are assembled in Canada from what I've read. The price of welders, especially name brands is absolutely ridiculous now. Makes it hard for people to get into welding or justify the cost to get set up.
It could be said there are cheaper welders better specs. now. I was playing catch up, I had wanted to weld aluminum most of my life. 13 years ago it was Dynasty 350 or Dynasty 280. I sort of wish I had gone for the bigger. Been a few times 280 isn't enough. I even suplemented with helium once. It was expensive, but it got the job done.
As I mentioned my work will be mostly sheet metal in auto body work and occasional repairs of aluminum truck bodies and perhaps some light fabrication with aluminum. I won't be welding high pressure pipes LOL, and for heavier steel I'll likely use my MIG. I've seen several Miller Syncrowave 250 within a couple hours drive for under $1000, the Lincoln welders mentioned seem to be quite a bit higher. In looking at photos it's been difficult to determine if the units are complete. I'm seeing reference to a "pen or torch cooler" and some are mentioning it's not included. My guess is I need the welding unit, the torch or pen, gas regulator and foot pedal. Is the cooler an accessory or option? is it necessary? I don't anticipate needing high production capacity and my bigger welding jobs should be at lower settings. Thanks for all the replies thus far!
You don't need a water cooled torch unless you're doing a lot of welding. A Tig pen is just a hand held rod holder with a thumb wheel to make feeding the rod easier. It would be a help especially with aluminum where you need to feed the rod faster. A Tig finger is nice to have. It's a heat resistant sleeve you put on your finger so you can steady your hand on the hot work piece. A Lincoln Square Wave 175 would probably be a good Tig welder for you but a Syncrowave 250 in good condition under $1000 is a pretty good deal especially if it comes with a foot pedal and other accessories. A Lincoln Square Wave 255 is a good machine but has push buttons for all the adjustments. I had one. It's a good Tig welder but apparently some welders would poke holes in the control panel with the hot tungsten. I made a plexiglass cover for the controls that could flip up.
I've really been loving my $300 YesWelder. I have another $250 tig/arc from them, the $300 does mig/tig/arc(dc only), and wow, it's really good at making me look like a decent welder. i'm NO WHERE near as experienced as you guys... but I just welded up my aluminum trailer, and hell ... with the YesWelder in 'Auto' ... honestly it reminded me of using a hot air plastic welder. I know that's weird to say, but damn if it didn't feel ...easy to do. Time will tell if it's a good weld or not, it's right on the tongue to frame joint that it cracked. I guess we'll find out if the welder picked the right settings or not.
Have heard mixed reviews on Yes welders but if it works for you great. I'd probably look at Everlast or Harbor Freight.
You might have an air cooled torch, or a cooler & a water cooled torch. In either, there is a duty cycle for the torch also. Air cooled torches are usually heavier, more bulky. The cable feeding the torch runs inside the water tube. This cools it, so you can use a smaller copper wire for a water cooled torch, makes the rig less bulky & heavy. I might choose water cooled even if I weren't welding long or heavy metal. Aluminum melts at around 1200 degrees F. Logic would tell you it should take less energy to weld aluminum, the opposite is true. Aluminum conducts heat away from the weld joint, and radiates into the air, so it needs a lot more energy to weld. You will not be pleased if you go with a low amp / low duty cycle welder if you dabble much with aluminum. Sine wave welders are fine welding steel, or stainless. AC, it is mostly Electrode Negative that makes the heat. A 50/50 balance means a lot of the heat energy is lost. Cathodic etching is less effective. Cathodic etching happens in the EP half cycle. I compare 75% EN in square wave about equal to 50/50 sine wave. It sends the other share to heating the weld. My former sine wave welder put out 310 amps at 60% duty cycle. My current one maxes out at 280 amps, 60% duty cycle but it is more powerful for aluminum. I don't do it often, but I struggled with full penetration welding from both sides on 5/8" 6061, had to add a bit of helium.
I retired a Syncrowave 250 that was old and playing games with a Primeweld that appears to be playing games also, despite multiple setting changes as advised by the manufacturer. I am a 30 year Miller guy but their offerings are limited and prices are too much. I'm considering an HTP Revolution 2500 which is on Black Friday sale into next week. It offers AC TIG and aluminum wire feed without a push/pull gun. A spool gun is too bulky in tight areas. I guess I could put a push/pull gun on my Millermatic 252 but that would not solve the TIG issue I'm having.
Trying to Mig aluminum without a push/pull gun is an exercise in frustration. Manufacturers claim they work but everything has to perfect. Need a 6' gun hanging straight down. That's the very reason they make spool guns. I'm not sure you can get a push/pull gun that works with a MM252 but maybe you can. Miller makes a special 350P for aluminum and also has a special model for autobody work.
I'd have to look. I feel a push pull set up was available for aMM252. I have a spool gun uses 2 LB spools of wire. I confess, I've never tried it. I really enjoy TIG & haven't ever done a major project in aluminum where speed would be an important factor. My son talks of building a tank for a fire truck tanker. I don't know if I'd still TIG that. I think it'd be a sure thing to make a leak free weld with TIG. I'm not confident it'd be free of leaks with MIG. ........ We have two small towns share a volunteer fire company. One fire house has a low door where the 1976 International tanker is kept. It is getting crusty in the frame. The plan is to replace it with a much newer truck, but near every manufactured tank would be too tall for the building. We can build a 2500 gallon tank lower & wider than the 1400 gallon cylinder shaped tank on the old truck. That tank of steel was built 1976 by a member no longer living. It seeps in several places
Was over at my LWS recently, and they are selling ProFax welders. IIRC these are the older Miller welders made in Mexico, now badged Profax. https://profax-lenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/MC2526PXLN.pdf Might be an option.
Is LWS Lampton welding supply by chance? Just curious
any of these should work on that machine; https://www.millerwelds.com/accessories/mig-welding-accessories/mig-guns/push-pull-guns
“Local Welding Supply”
I look at welds everywhere my wife makes me go. I notice MIG welded aluminum, and TIG welded aluminum. Manufacturers will use the cheapest process they can to meet the specification of the contract, they also will use the lowest skill level weldors they can find. I feel non critical welds are MIG. Critical welds are TIG. Many other factors influence, thin aluminum needs TIG, tank welds get TIG, or an automated process takes human flaws out. Still, if I want a perfect weld in aluminum, I use TIG. Not true in steel, there are skilled people, other processes can make a perfect weld in steel. When I first learned that MIG welds are suspect when fusion is critical, I couldn't believe it! Then I witnessed a few perfect looking MIG welds (steel) had little fusion to the metal, I got concerned. I had never seen a stick weld with poor fusion, except rust ignored, then it is obvious.
If done by a competent welder Mig aluminum is perfectly acceptable for most applications. Tig with wire feed is used for larger critical welds. I'm not familiar enough to know the differences between cold wire and hot wire wire feed. I would think hot wire would be used for more deposition on larger weldments. Seeing manual Tig welds by experienced welders are works of art.
Still I see tanks built by automatic processes. I would practice a while before attempting to weld a fire truck tank of aluminum with MIG. Fixing a leak is a big job. I can easily run a TIG bead I'd feel confident with. Seams on a tank would require 160 feet of continuous weld, plus structural frame, plus hatch, & quick dump. Not sure how long it'd take to weld that much. Certainly MIG is a whole lot faster.
Years ago a buddy rigged my mig up to build a aluminum portable deer tree stand . The welds looked good you couldnt weld a very long weld the wire would expand in the tip and seize . I was going to ness with it some more but never did. I wondered how the welds held up . We dont live to far apart i need ask him someday.
General purpose large tanks could be done with automatic Mig but if the tanks had any pressure or chemicals would likely be done with automated Tig.