Hi, The Bobcat in question is an 863F manufactured in December 1998. It has about 2,400 hours. Today after warming it up for about 10 minutes in 29°F I began by removing the bucket to attach a tree boom. Before I could hook up the boom, the tilt and lift stopped working. I turned the engine off. 5 Minutes later I started it up again and the tilt and lift functions worked again, for about 20 seconds. turned it off again and checked battery connection. (installed brand new battery two weeks ago when the weather got cold because it was too weak to start the machine) Checked the BICS fuse near the timing belt cover, looks fine. Installed new timing belt about 1 week ago, before this I avoided using the machine for a while , maybe something happened when I was moving the cable and fuses out of the way of timing belt installation? Started the machine and same thing happened in less than 1 minute. No tilt or lift, BICS valve lock (light off), moves forward, backward, and turns fine. turned the engine off, started it up and everything worked great until I parked it. except the temp gauge which has not worked for the few months I've owned it(hoping to get that working ASAP) Any ideas? Btw, Today was the first time I attempted to actually use the machine since installing the new timing belt, it starts and runs unbelievably better even though the old belt looked fine. now that I'm writing this, i'm thinking that maybe I accidentally did something during install...
Well, I have similar issue (and Errors) with my T190 _ it has ACS controls and the Tilt Actuator was giving an error and 'locking up' both Lift and Tilt _ unfortunately I am 2hrs away from the machine and my Service Manual, but someone will likely come along here to ask: "Are there any CODES being shown" when the system quits..?? Mine was showing something like a M32-37 Code but forget ** was definitely Tilt Actuator, and I re-calibrated it with the series of Buttons/ BICS enable-disable/ Hand Control motions that are in the Service Manual.. Proper and more SURE way is likely with a Service PC but I am not that lucky!! Has been GOOD for 10-12 hrs since though, so I must assume that I am lucky, or just deserve a $700 break that way.. Ha!!
I probably should have mentioned that mine has the ACS controls. However it is an F-series and so the instruments are analog(no codes). The BICS is probably the most advanced electronics component in the whole machine? maybe disconnecting the old battery and installing a new one has created the need to recalibrating the tilt actuator? how would I do that on this machine?
Hmmmm.. from what I have learned, I cannot see the interaction/reaction between Battery Replacement an Actuator, BUT never know I guess!! And, I would suggest a Service Manual for ANY and ALL people who can 'wrench a bit' and want to/ need to save some $$ _ FULL of Good Info and our Farm always purchases them for our machines of all types and sizes _ that being said, I have NO idea where to point you to re-calibrate (but likely is similar to ours which has Keyless/ Upgraded Panel) as this T190 is our first Bobcat here, and only have had it for a few months!! Hopefully the Smart and Helpful Folks will pop up here soon to assist you _ I am just a dumb farmer, and 100 miles from a Bobcat Dealer, and know enough to be dangerous with some information and decent tools _ and I have an Electronics background too, so not too many things freak me out that way on the machine, and I can get my way around a schematic pretty well to troubleshoot.. Usually..
Hey axel I think left joy stick has two small green led lights that give a combination of flashes to signal different codes. Hopefully some of the experienced bobcat guys can help. Your going to need a wiring diagram and a dvom multimeter and a little guidance you should beable to resolve problem
I hoped someone had a nice conclusive answer to this problem before my dive into the 550 pages of the Bobcat 863 service manual(serial number 514425001 & above). so, I've found the pages about Actuators but nothing yet about recalibrating them...
Haha I hear you about service manuals but knowledge is power I have Lil experience with these but I like to think of bics as the middle component it receives input sends it to main controller then that sends signal back to bics if conditions are right that turns lift tilt light on then bics sends out put to tilt actuator don't try jumping or bypassing powers because it's uses reference voltage and 12 volts can make you new problems good luck hopefully someone will guide you better than I can.
Thanks for the heads up rmllarue91. Btw, just noticed that in the manual theses are called A.H.C hand controls. on one of the handles there are two small round holes which are of course somewhat different(larger) from the ones on the photo in the manual, could those be for lights? There are however two LED lights next to the auxiliary hydraulic unlock button under the gauges. I can probably post photos in the morning
In the handle are the lights I'm famillar with. I think when you turn the key on the machine goes though it's self check and should flash a code for lift and tilt circuit if there is a problem of course. the one I'm working on the lights were bad had to replace the left handle to finish diagnostics.
There has not yet been a problem when I start the machine. The problem has been occurring during use after warm up, would the lights flash then? I don't see any bulbs in this hand control...unless they're deeper in there
Could the actuator cause these symptoms? I'll probably get around to lifting the cab and checking cables/harnesses in the next few days...
check the bics, see if any of the lights are flashing when the lift/tilt stops. if you dont have the 2 idiot lights in the LH handle, then you have a very early AHC/ACS system with the metal case controller. without a service manual, a good DVM, test harnesses, and an understanding of how the system works, you may be in for trouble. this is probaly the worst system to diagnose/troubleshoot, even for an experienced bobcat mechanic. if it's really an AHC/ACS issue, the problem could be either handle controller, either actuator,, the AHC controller, wiring, or all the above sorry to pee in your cheerios ointhead :drinkup
could the problem be caused by the seat bar switch? I've been informed that metal dust can build up on the magnetic switch surfaces and cause momentary disruptions which are enough to set the BICS valve lock on. I'm planning to take the switch apart ASAP Does the LH handle(in the bottom photo) look like one that originally had lights? Any idea what those two round openings are on the LH handle? When did AHC/ACS systems appear?
There has not been any flashing lights on the BICS when lift/tilt stops. But I haven't looked at the LH handle when that was happening yet...
there should be 2 lights in that handle. early AHS/ACS systems were introduced in '98 ( i believe) over the years the system has gotten better and better, when the the g series was introduced. actual numbered fault codes instead of idiot light flashes introduction of the plastic case ACS controller, that ca
Seat bar sensor, BICS coil open or controller yacked. The controller isn't likely, and the BICS coil is easiest to check.
Finally got a chance to run the bobcat again since I returned. No lights show up on the left hand control. When the valve lock goes off I lift and lower the seat bar, press the "traction lock override" button and get various results. results: * only the power light stays on * power light on and traction light turns on * all lights except the valve lock light are on * all lights are on but valve lock turns off soon after using arms or tilt. also, sometimes when I lift the seat bar, the traction and power light stay on with all other BICS lights off and I can still drive but not lift/tilt. how do I check the BICS coil?
just to clarify, I can drive around with the seat bar up!
thast normal with the seat bar up, and TRACTION LOCK OVERIDE button pushed it will drive. your post is still confusing me, key on seat bar down, press to operate what lights are on? when the lift and tilt stops working what lights go out, or there any flashing? :drinkup
Should traction stay on after raising and lowering the seat bar a few times? When I first turn the machine on, lower the seat bar, and press traction, all BICS lights are on and everything works. I have not seen any flashing on this maching at any time so far. Not BICS nore left hand control(although I'm not sure if the bulbs are good in the hand control). When tilt/lift first stops working just the valve lock light goes off. Then I try resetting by raising/lowering the seat bar and pressing the traction button. Different lights are on with consecutive attempts as I listed in a previous reply. I've even had all the lights back on and everything working for a short time with this method. However, turning the engine off/on is a more effective reset method but also only works until the tilt/lift locks again unpredictably...
Hopefully a 'much wiser technician' will chime in on this, I have been In/Around/Took Apart newer ones, but not much time with one as yours _ I gotta think it will be an easier fix though _ ** My first thoughts are that you seem to indicate that 'raising the bar' does NOT always Stop Machine Functions, and I would think it surely should, for Safety Reasons!! Accordingly, I would be first to look at/ Test/ Clean/ Replace the Relay (I gotta think it will still use them, but again not familiar with an 863 or the look inside) if you can get one nearby/easily _ That circuit that the Seat Bar will trigger for the Functions should immediately go ON/OFF with movement of The Bar, it is a simple safety issue!! I cannot imagine it NOT 'going Open Circuit' as soon as you raise the Seat Bar, so if you have a Service Manual with Schematics, and a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) I hope you could glean some info, and perhaps find a simple issue once you trace along the route, starting with The Switch _ from experience, I gotta think it most likely might be Relay related, so maybe a Socket (corrosion) or a Bad Wire/Connection/Crimp along the way, or ultimately the Relay itself of course _ Time and Patience will hopefully sort it out _ Good Luck once again!!
if only the bics light is going out, give it a few seconds to see if it starts flashing before you raise the bar, or shut the machine off..... :drinkup
Make sure you do not have a seat sensor in addition to the seat bar switch. I have been diagnosing a very similar situation in my S250. My "lift&tilt" light goes out, won't come on. I did not get codes right away, then I got one for short to ground. Unplugged the solenoids and the got a code for an open circuit. Ohm ed out the solenoids and the harness and they were okay. I swapped out the controller with one from an S300 with similar options and it worked fine. I will be purchasing the new controller tomorrow. I have been round and round on other skid steer forums about this issue and understand your frustration.
I had an issue with my 863 that kept doing a lockout and I would raise the safety arm and put it back down and machine would work. finally that quit working. one day I was inspecting my engine and noticed all the ground wires down on bottom od engine were broke from their ground terminal. replaced them and zip tied everything and all is well again. look below starter for a large group of wires.
I've checked the ground wires several times and they seem quite firmly attached. but I plan to check again. There is no seat sensor on this machine. I took the seat bar sensor apart and cleaned it but nothing improved. Today I noticed that specifically when I use the TILT, that tilt/lift stops working and valve lock light goes out. I also noticed that the tilt seems a bit sluggish just before cutting out(bad controller?). I took apart the right hand control and tilt the cab up to look for frayed wires but none found. did get a bit excited when I found green oxidation in one of the harnesses coming from the hand control, sprayed some electrical cleaner, reconnected & disconnected the harness a few times but still getting locked out. maybe i need to clean the harness more? the corrosion was on just one of the pins.
Well, I will say that there is NEVER any such thing as Too Clean in any Electrical Connections, esp if they are a Low Voltage/Amperage Control Circuit at all.. ** an extra bit of Resistance may quickly make the controller 'lose connection' or get improper feedback that it needs to keep control circuits happy, and could surely cause issues.. I would say get a few wee brushes (Nylon and Stainless if possible, don't want to contaminate a connector with Ferrous metal bits!!) and some cleaner that won't immediately evaporate to help 'draw away the corrosion' and then some proper Dielectric style grease to coat the connection for later.. and if they are a 'spade type connection' make sure the Male-Female connectors are snug enough (perhaps tiny needle-nose pliers or such to carefully tighten Female Connector) so as to not make yet more resistance, and invite corrosion there as well _ Happy Cleaning!!
Thanks for the advice. I really hope it's a matter of cleaning, prospects of the problem being an actuator, BICS controller, or hand control switch are much less appealing. BTW, any way to test for those without going to the dealer? my diagnostic lights in the LH hand control do not seem to function, and dealer is very far away.
Not sure how to test, I have tried in the past and seem to have no luck. I hate taking my machine to the dealer too. they are way over priced. The internet has made things so much easier as far as saving money on parts and knowledge. this may be dumb question but are your white rub parts worn out where safety latch comes down? or how about your cab mounts, are they tight against frame?
Ok, here's some new info: As I mentioned before, lift seems to work with no problems. but the moment I use tilt both become locked out. today I did some more harness cleaning and checking wiring(looks good), fired her up, and started by using just the lift for a bit. As soon as I moved the tilt I lost both this time before the tilt even had a chance to move. (usually the tilt would move a little before locking out) Then I turned on BUCKET LEVELING and used the lift It worked fine(the tilt adjusted accordingly as I lifted the arms every time) got locked out the moment I tried to just tilt I'm hoping this narrows things down? I have noticed that the mounting bolts(round head hex) for the tilt hand controller are sticking out about an eighth inch from both sides(allowing the controller to have some play) but they will not budge in or out. looks like they've been this way for a very long time since the threads on the bolts are well worn down. the wire sheath that goes past the controller into the handle has some tares in it but the wires seem fine. can I test the controller somehow without taking it out?
resealed the control valve spools and installed a new tilt actuator. (the old actuator was full of oil and the brushes where black so I cleaned it but installed the new one anyways) now the valve lock light won't turn on at all any ideas?
Still no tilt or lift. Installed a new valve lock solenoid(got a great price for it), but no change. getting 1.9volts to the solenoid with engine running, with seat bar down and "press to operate" button pressed it goes up to 2.1volts. Installed new heavier grounding cables to the battery. OHM tested any grounding cables I could find. My local dealer said that the problem is probably somewhere before the BICS controller since it is not flashing. I've called dealers around the northeast and got answers ranging from "it's probably the BICS controller" and "It's probably the metal box controller". They all end up saying that I've done everything possible short of bringing it in to their shop. Not an option for me right now any way to figure out if it's the main controller (metal box) ? if all was functioning properly.... could the BICS lights all come on with the actuators disconnected? While resealing the spools and replacing the actuator I had also disconnected all harnesses to the hand controls since I was replacing the rusted shield(kick plate under the seat) as well. Two of the harnesses were initially accidentally reconnected to previously unused ones(noticed this later when checking connections, unused ones had old dirt coating them on the inside). could this have caused the controller to fail?
Do you have the diagram for what the flashing on the left handle means? my left light is on and the right one is flashing two times,one pause, repeat. When sitting in the seat, the BICS panel behind my right elbow just has the Valve lock light completely off(no blinking) all other lights are on(solid). Ive now replaced the faulty actuator, the Main AHC controller, the BICS controller, BICS lock solenoid, and put all new (much heavier than original) grounding cables to the battery. Just before replacing the left handle, I did voltage testing on the wires going into the main AHC controller with the engine running. the results are in the attached photo. any thoughts?
new controller kit After many hours of troubleshooting over the course of about a dozen phone calls with a Bobcat service technician(trains Bobcat dealers),who in addition to his own knowledge corresponded with some "old timers" who worked at bobcat during the building of this model, we came to the conclusion that the only next logical step would be to install the "AHC Upgrade Kit W/Push Button Float" part number 6727297. It only cost about $3,200 so I thought why not... Just installed the kit today. still no tilt or lift. :Banghead planning to call bobcat Monday...
Hey Axel, Any resolution to this problem? I am buying the same machine today with same issue. Would like to compare notes and get this resolved. Thanks
Howdy kilohertz, Fortunately I was able to return that ridiculously expensive upgrade kit... It seems my machine had a few issues which did not necessarily happen at the same time but did create a continuous flow of malfunction for some time. The main problem seemed to be that one of the relays was shorting due to water ingress. Before figuring this out I had already bypassed the bics valve lock by installing a manual switch. DANGER/WARNING: DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK! Worked great for a while but I still did not understand the source of the problem. Finally one day I went to start the machine and battery was dead (I had NOT left the lights or anything on). I put a new alternator in since the one I had in there was still under warranty(the previous alternator change had solved the problem temporarily). This time it allowed me to run the machine but after about an hour I noticed that my voltage was dropping below 12v while running. I shut the machine off and the voltage kept slowly dropping. I started shaking and feeling cables going to the alternator and battery. The cable going into relay from alternator was so hot I almost burned myself. Using pliers and screwdriver I quickly removed the now SOFT(melting) relay as boiling water spilled out. Lots of corrosion and rust. New relay and base(aka connector) got everything going and allowed me to remove my rigged BICS switch and bring machine back to original safety specs. I'm guessing that in the beginning the compromised relay only caused a micro change in voltage(which supposedly is enough to trip the valve lock). Bypassing the problem and getting the machine running allowed me to ignore the problem until it literally led to a meltdown. But also allowed me to find/solve the problem. There were other issues along the way but this was probably the main problem and likely caused some of the other problems. An actuator out of neutral was another issue(causing valve lock) now that I think of it. but that was caused by my having opened it up out of curiosity. causing a few months of confusion that no one(even "specialists" could figure out. A vague forum mention of resetting neutral tipped me off to the fact it was something I caused. And now I know how to fix actuators flooded by oil from leaking spools lol! Anyways, let me know how it goes. Good luck!
Thanks Axel! That is awesome news. I have just finished figuring out my 853 wiring issues, it was stolen and stripped and I am just piecing it back together. Aux hydraulics and all that. I found a couple of bad relays as well, really well rusted, they sit right at the back of the engine. Also corroded fuses. It's all repaired now and works great, but the 863 I am picking up is lighter, has real gauges (not BOSS) but has the AHC joysticks with similar problems to yours. I am on the prowl for a PDF of the service manual, with wiring diagrams. On my way to get the machine right now, I tried it out yesterday and it ran fine, the ghost only appears once in a while. I'll report back when I get it home. Thanks!
yup, mine is same. It's a 1999(manufactured in 1998). Has AHC but analog(not digital) gauges. I ran mine yesterday for a few hours, parked it while it rained, and when I ran it after the rain I was getting hesitations when using tilt and lift at the same time. kept running it and problem went away after about 10 minutes. I think moisture is still getting in somewhere and causing problems. Have to build a bigger shop store it out of the rain and snow!
Excellent, well let's keep in touch and try to get both our problems solved together. Waiting for downpour to let up here then off to pick it up. I have also read about bad grounds, a big clump of ground wires under the engine?? I am an electronics tech so hopefully will be able to figure this out. Bad grounds can cause all sorts of strange problems, especially in low level circuits like the joy sticks. I will get the history on the machine as well, bills and such, think they spent $10K chasing the problem so far, sticks, actuators all replaced multiple times, works fine for a few months then starts acting up. Sometimes works for a week, sometimes for 5 minutes. I am betting it is going to be a simple problem, but ultimately will take some serious troubleshooting of wires and circuits to locate the source of the issue. I'll keep you posted. Cheers
OKay, well she is home, got it off the trailer and within 50' of the trailer the tilt/lift quit. From what I have researched so far, I have learned to look at the lights on the left stick, and the BICS, so what I have on mine, BICS tilt/lift light is off, all others are on, machine still drives, and on the left stick solid light on the left, and 5 flashing on the right LED. I'm colour blind so can't tell you what colour they are. I steam cleaned the whole machine and I am very happy with it, very good condition and 4500 hours, like new 6' digging (toothed) bucket, decent rubber and overall in very good shape. I'll do some research into the 5 flashing lights code, see what it I come up with. I found a service manual for the 763, don't know if it is close enough and if the AHC circuits are the same....really would like to find the 863 manual. Cheers
Until I find wiring diagrams I am going to have to ask some questions to understand the system. Does the AHC computer drive the BICS, ie does the AHC go thru it's self test and then say "hey, I'm good, you can activate the tilt/lift valve" or does the BICS computer go thru it's test, looking for everything to be in order, then it gives the green light to the AHC box? Ran it around the yard and up and down the driveway and it didn't fail again. With it's history and all new actuators and sticks, I'm leaning to something missed by the dealer and like your issue, a relay, fuse holder or rubbed wires. Thanks for the help. PS, just found the little plastic operators manual in the side box and I see that 5 blinks means actuator at fault, mine being the tilt actuator. If I understand correctly, the actuator is simply a motor and pot, motor 2 wires and pot 3 wires, still could be wiring harness as there are 5 wires to fail there. Just need to finish my job with the 853 this week and then I'll be able to dive into the 863.
One other comment, in my diagnosing the 853, I have found the BICS to be very sensitive to power supply voltage, ie when I start the engine, if it cranks too long, even though all 4 lights were on when the cranking started, once the engine starts, if the main 12V line drops too much, the BICS craps out and complains and looses it's brain, some lights stay on, others go out. Shut down, start right up again with less cranking and away it goes, happy happy, all lights on. I was thinking of adding a capacitor right at the BICS to help hold the voltage up while cranking, but the root cause is probably still some bad connections somewhere between the battery, and the BICS. Food for thought. Yet another PS..just thinking about which computer drives which computer, if the flashing LEDS are on on the sticks, that would tell me that the AHC computer senses a fault, and thus is keeping the BICS from turning on. This machine is a little more complex than the 853. The BICS needs confirmation of safety bar down, operator in seat (853), and it seems, an okay signal from the AHC computer, in order to activate the solenoid for lift/tilt.
Another update...after getting it off the trailer and running it around, I discovered that it was only failing when using the bucket curl, not lift or bucket dump, just curl. Repeatable multiple times, I could start the machine, lift, tilt down, the moment I hinted at curl or tilt up, fail, right light on left stick flashing 5 times. So when I got home tonight I raised the cab and steam cleaned the underside getting ready for troubleshooting. Was actually pretty clean once I removed all the dirt and fluid muck. AHC harness has been changed, update kit installed, controller replaced and sticks replaced, all within the last 3 years. After I finished pressure washing it I decided to do a quick diagnostic and pulled the actuator plugs and cleaned the pins and sockets, just blasted a little WD40 in there, they were damp from the wash. I then unplugged the big round socket/plug right at the back of the cab's bottom side and reconnected it. Looks like the AHC wires run thru that big plug, and down to the AHC controller, thru another one of those big circular plugs. Well between the cleaning and plug disconnecting, I have not had a single failure tonight. Ran it around for a while, then shut it down and did it all again 4 times, no failures. Seems the issues are in the plugs/connectors. Hopefully this is all it needs. I was pretty amazed at the poor choice of connectors made by Bobcat. The pins are barely large enough to support 2 or 3 amps, little dinky pins and sockets. I much prefer the older blue/black connectors of the 50 series machines, larger pins, better connections and higher power handling. Oh well, I just fix 'em, I don't spec 'em. Will for sure have to properly waterproof them if this turns out to be the issue. Cheers
Well it rained quite a bit last night and the 863 is bugging out. worked for a while then hesitated for a while then worked etc... I alternate between using the BICS bypass I created and the original setup. sometimes one works, sometimes the other, sometimes neither. Most of the connectors I ever checked look like new inside, and all have been dry. The 5 flash on the sticks can indeed mean bad actuator. A quick check is to switch harnesses and see if the problem transfers. However it can also mead bad ground....... seemingly infinite possibilities. In my case the code shows up on both sides. I have a brand new actuator and brand new $500 AHC harness. sometimes both lights are flashing like it's christmas while everything is working great.
Thanks for the update. I worked all day on my machine. I completely cleaned each connector on the machine, including the 2 big circular connectors that go the AHC controller and the one at the back of the cab, like yours, they look pretty much like new inside. Then I removed and cleaned all the grounds on the starter, 3 big 10ga wires. Also cleaned all 8 fuses and holders at the back, bottom right corner of the engine bay. All wiring harnesses look great, all safe inside the split covering, no visible rubs or problem areas. Started and drove it around for a while with no issues, great! It's fixed. Tried it a few times and no problem. Decided to detail the machine, even used Armour All on the gauge pods and seat, machine looks great. Anyone ever detailed a Bobcat? Then decided to grease all the fittings, went to curl the bucket to get at the fitting.............................and it crapped out. DAMNMIT!!!! Only did it once, but it was enough to discourage me. Started raining so I came inside and am having a beer and watching the hockey game. Still something not right....we'll get it.
One other thing I noticed while I was playing around with the sticks, various movements trying to get it to fail..... If I hold a stick slightly off center before activating the hydraulics, I get and error code (flashing LED in the handle), but, it's not symmetrical. If I hold the tilt stick just a hair towards the center (curl) I get the error, if I hold the stick way off center (dump) I can activate the hydraulics, not get the error, and the bucket actually starts moving as soon as I press the operate button. Seems to me like the potentiometer is not centered in the stick. I also noticed the same phenomenon in the lift stick, and my sticks are new. I wonder if they should be dismantled and re-centered? Food for thought.
Hey kilohertz, I have a similar issue with an 873G. Have you been able to resolve your problem? If so, what was the fix, and if not, any thing else you have tried? Cheers!
Hey Kansas, Yes I have tried many things, and thought I had it nailed...was working flawless for 3 weeks then all of a sudden started acting up again, only tilt fault again. What I did was removed both actuators, reset the neutral position of the tilt actuator by taking the gear cover off and moving the sensor gear a few teeth, to get the actuator to be recessed to about .2" into the housing, when centered. Also swapped tilt with lift actuator to see if the problem would move. Also found that when I was installing the actuators, the little pin with the ball on it, seemed to wiggle out of center just while I was installing the actuator, which made me think maybe it was wiggling out and binding on the teflon sleeve groove...then I noticed that the end of the spool valve has a flat on it, so I thought that maybe the pin should be installed in such a manner that the little ball sits in the gap between the spool and actuator. Shazamm! I thought, that must be it. well it worked for 3 weeks and now it is acting up again. Last week when it crapped out, I noticed that when I powered up the AHC system, without the engine running, I could hear the actuators operating, but the tilt was only moving in the dump direction, not curl, and it sounded much slower than the lift actuator. Then the tilt quit completely, no actuator movement at all so I raised the cab and swapped the actuator harness connections, the tilt actuator still wouldn't move, so I wacked it with a ratchet and it suddenly popped back to life. Worked about 80% of the rest of the day, maybe one or 2 more failures. I still don't think it is the actuators as they are all new about 400-500 hours ago (changed twice in 2 years), plus I had swapped them 3 weeks ago, harness has been changed, new joysticks, new AHC controller, joystick upgrade etc. It's always the tilt that fails. So I am now thinking that after the previous owner spent $10K trying to get this fixed, and the local Bobcat dealer hasn't been able to fix it, it must be something in the hydraulic block, the spool is binding, folded over or damaged o-ring, something inside the hydraulic section that is causing the spool to bind or get sticky...something that if it had foot pedals, you wouldn't even notice as there is so much force available from your foot, but the poor little actuators with a little .9A motor will crap out at the littlest bit of resistance. When I get the machine back to my shop I will pull the spool valve and see what's going on in there. Keep you posted. Cheers
Hey kilo, I think I found my issue. There was a socket inside the connector that goes between the lift handle sensor and the AHC controller (3 pin, red, black, and green). On the controller side I found that the socket for the positive voltage had a bad crimp and might not have been seated deep enough in the connector. The pin from the lift handle sensor was very loose. I couldn't see that until I took the connector apart and inserted each pin into the sockets. I made a video of the repair if you want to check it out: I've finished up last weekend and have run now for a couple of hours with out throwing a code. I still can't explain why the error would happen only when I operated the lift and tilt at the same time. I consistently got the 32-40 error though. I did have leaking spool rod seals so replaced those as well. Plan to make a video of that as well. Regards for Kansas
Cool, your machine must be newer, I don't have any "codes" as I just have 3 analog gauges, no BOSS or modern equivalent. My machine is still on site and should have it back at my shop in a few days. My connectors have 10 pins?? going to each actuator, on the joystick there are 3 to the joystick pot, but my harness has been changed as well as the joysticks...maybe they had a bad run of harnesses. I will check that before dismantling the hydraulic system. Thanks for the update. Cheers
Yes, I have a new machine with the deluxe instrument panel which can display error codes. BTW, I had a similar issue with the lift actuator running when I powered on the machine and pushed the PTO button. I could also make that happen when I wiggled the 3 wires right before the connector. Note that my issue was with the 3 wire connector that comes from the handle sensor going to the AHC controller and not between the controller and the actuator. If you are getting some uncommanded tilt you might consider swapping the handle sensors and see if the issue moves with the handle sensor. The handle sensors on my machine are the same. Even though the handle harness was changed out they probably reused the connector and probably only removed the pins on the handle side of the connector. I would try removing the sockets on the controller side of the connector and the pins on the handle side of the connector and see how tight they fit together. Or, at least push those rubber round seals as deep as possible into the connector and see if that provides a better connection and prevents the uncommanded curl with your tilt. If you dig into the control valve I found it really nice to remove the control panel and raise the lift boom. You have a lot room to work from the top side and it makes it a lot easier to see the wire harness. It doesn't take that long to remove the control panel. Do you have a service manual for your machine? Good luck.
Axle, what reference did the attachment come out of? I would to have something similar for my 873G and my service manual doesn't provide any reference for this kind of information. The neutral voltage for my hand controls is 2.15V and I would like to know what is supposed to be. Looks like it is 1.89V for the 863F. Thanks, Steve
well this is the first place i have found something close to what mine is doing. I have been trying to google and find anything that could help me. I have a 99 863 as well and everything worked great with mine. I parked it and let it set for about 2 weeks ( weather was bad and had lots of rain) I have it parked under a roof all the time but the sides are mostly open so i am sure moisture still gets to it. The issue I am having is I can start up the machine and operate the lift and tilt until the first movement of the machine. So when I fist start the machine I can lift the bucket and tilt it back but once i move the machine forward or reverse all bucket functions act like it is locked. It moves slightly and i can hear the pump working and a slight movement in the bucket in both tilt and lift but only maybe a quarter of an inch. I feel like it could be an actuator but I have no clue where to even start. This is my first skid steer and am trying to learn as I go. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance
Do you have error codes to reference? Is your machine a G series?
I actually do not know if there are any codes or not. how can i tell if it is a G series? I know it says it is an advantage series
DO you have 3 analog gauges in the right instrument pod, or the BOSS controller, with backlit display with bar graph type gauges? Mine is the F series, think it is on the serial # plate?? Can't recall, mine is the Advantage series as well and I have analog gauges, no BOSS computer. Are all lights on the BICS controller when it stops working, little black box on the back wall beside the right side of the seat in the cab? Cheers
Start up your machine and when you get the lockout press down and hold the "Headlights" for a few seconds and if there are any codes they will appear in the hour meter display. Looks for the code(s) before you shutting the power off. I have a tag under the serial number plate that says what series the machine is. Someone with a little knowledge of the serial numbers could probably tell you if you post the serial number. Since you mentioned actuators I assume you have hand controls for lift and tilt?
I completely forgot about this forum and still have the issue only now I have no tilt or lift at all when I start the machine. It is an F series. I have done a lot of work to it but still have not fixed the issue. I have a new BICS kit on it's way as well should be here in the next day or so. Has anyone had any luck fixing theirs?
well I got it fixed last night, it wound up being the BICs itself. the last coil was rust on the BICs. I replaced with a new one and it works great now. Also fixed the creep that it had that was long overdue and rebuilt the throttle clutch that kept the throttle in position. going to pressure wash it and get a new belt to drive the hydraulics. I noticed cracks in the one that is on it now. just glad the tilt and lift is now fixed.
Hi guys, Well I'm back working on my 863F, same problem as before but now much worse, tilt only works for a second then quits and sets a code. I just reread this whole thread to re familiarize myself with the system, sure wish I had foot controls. Axel, wondering if you figured out the problem with yours? I am going to be diving into best can this week, it is on a job site so a little more work to work on it. The only thing I have done so far is to swap output from controller to the actuators and the problem moveds from tilt to lift, tilt actuator seems fine. I think this means it's either the joystick end or the controller. I'm going to swap the joystick inputs to the controller to see if the problem moves or not. To refresh..the history on the machine before I bought it..over the period of about 5 years, both actuators replaced twice, maybe 3 times, all new joysticks and harnesses (the AHC update kit), a new controller was tried but they couldn't get it to work so went back to the old one, which after all the updates worked for 6 months. After spending $12K on it they gave up which is when I bought it. The saga continues... Cheers
Did you get this figured out? I have a 863 same issue. Thanks!!