Owned this old Ford 4500 since last October used it on the property for about 2 months and seems it will get me killed within a year if I keep it. Slides all over the wet/moist clay to point of no control with the hills and when it gets going there is no stopping almost flipping sometimes especially when you are going up a incline and slides sideways. Has no power steering due to P.O. took it off which trying to turn that with loaded bucket is work out in itself, can't climb on wet/moist clay, likes to pop wheelies going up hills (yeah weights work if you had power steering), parts are obsolete mostly. Lastly if I get my semi stuck with a trailer, it can't pull it out, lacks power and traction. Now when it's dry sure works great besides no power steering. Wife wants me to keep it I see it as accident waiting to happen. So I'm thinking sell it and buy a crawler loader or a bulldozer with backhoe attachment, will take about 6 months of no projects to afford it. Question is will chains stop most of this and if not will a crawler of the sorts do the same?
I think you are on the right tracks, pun intended. The only big concern is how far flung your holdings are, and the ability to road it. If you can haul your dozer then that is solved. A modern 4wd hoe would a lot better, but still the wet clay defeats everything, and tires more than tracks. Don kid yourself though. sidehilling on a dozer is no fun on slick stuff. You need to get things flat in the one direction right from the start.
I deal with wet clay every spring and fall. I went to chains on my 2wd backhoe, and over the tire tracks on my skid steer for mud season. The chains on the backhoe made a huge difference for me. There is a reason loggers run massive chains on their skidders, they work. I went with the duo-grip chains and they've worked very well for me. I still have issues with front tires sliding on slippery surface when turning, but you can chain the front steer tires or use turning brakes on backhoe, if they work. For under $500, chains are probably worth trying out. And getting your power steering fixed, if possible.
Small Tracked Loader with a Hoe will seem awkward at first but can drop the hoe off when need just as a loader and come get that when need to hoe around!! 931, 951, 555G even a 455G will be as much as you will need. Just remember Tracks DO and CAN get as stuck or slide just as bad.
I think most track loaders will have shallow grousers. That may not work as well as you are hoping for.
I have a 931B with a backhoe. If it's soft you'll be pulling yourself out with the hoe. Most will have triple grousers, newer might have double grousers but on a slippery slope are probably worse than tires for sliding sideways. Very heavy on the back with the hoe on. Somebody else on here fixed the power steering on a Ford. I think trying the chains would be a relatively cheap way of seeing how much they help. If you do sell the sell hoe, you can ask more for the chains or sell them separately for close to what you paid. They're likely a common size. Maybe a newer 4 wheel drive TLB would be a good option? No undercarriage to worry about.
Well with shallow grousers I figure weld some rebar on them as to add height maybe skip every two of them. The ground isn't soft at all, its hard as a rock and slick as such when the clay gets wet. Seems like a crawler of sorts would have lower center of gravity to handle a slide better and not bounce as it slides around which has me worried. When I say no traction and sliding we are talking 4 degrees or more not 20 degrees which I wouldn't dare take any equipment up on that steep when wet. Another problem as I mentioned is the power to pull the semi out with the trailer, case in point I have 9k lb trailer with 2000 gallons water on it and 100 gallons of diesel with 20k lb semi and that backhoe isn't budging it even with chains on all 8 wheels on the semi helping to move. Another thing I noticed is one bump when grading with front end loader and it messes everything up, plus not enough weight in that backhoe to pack the clay down as I want or dig in with front end loader. Though might try a Piranha blade on the front of it or something of the likes with chains and see where we get.
This is what I found after digging some... HeavyEquipmentForums Another reason I think a crawler loader or dozer would be great is wildfire fighting and creating firebreaks before one gets too close.. Don't see a backhoe working that effective or that close to a active brush fire on these terrains especially if you hit a sand rock bed or scoria along with shoving over a tree without digging it up first.
All of that post is with LGP machines with wide tracks. A crawler loader is a relatively high pressure machine by necessity of excavating a path you can fit in. They do not sidehill worth a damn. My first dozer was a JD350 loader that we swapped out every other triple for a dozer single grouser. The ground was universally soft in the woods and it helped wonders skidding out logs. It would beat me to death on hard surfaces. You can get all sorts of work out of a crawler loader, as long as you understand the limitations. One of them is no tilt so you come at a road cut sideways to dig a slot to get your track down and your frame flat to the world. Cuts are OK, fills are more troublesome as you will taper off to the downhill side as you compact the thicker lift there, so you regroup and get a track down and go at it again, you spend a lot of time making little turns to fix that lack of tilt.
Just NOT a Orphan Spud, bad enough to find repair parts for still produced machines, do not fall into the cheaper Orphan Trap as I had and so many others do. Actually a median sized Excavator may do you better for the excavation for shelters, a small single grouser dozer for the remaining work.
yes on the not orphan thing. Hard enough without that handicap.
Don't worry I am looking at Caterpillar or John Deere, maybe a Case. Komatsu looks too iffy unless I am looking at it wrong. I have a John Deere stealership up the road not going to buy from there but I might be able to find parts there if I owned one.
Deere are not bad machines just pricey as are Cat Komatsu are a grab bag of issues but some people really like them, look like cat but little cat stuff will interchange Chains are not too expensive for the hoe Would keep it as are handy for little jobs where a full track is too much.
Going to have to put any buying off for now, apparently my solar system didn't like the 6 months of rain in Peoples Republic of Washington state so batteries are dead after 2 years. Flushed $1000 down the drain staying there too long, 8 batteries. Going with forklift battery this time and getting more solar panels to keep up with such load needed to keep said battery above 80% SOC (state of charge).
Make sure to keep batteries water/acid topped off if they have removeable covers. I have a solar panel for a 5th wheel and when I checked the batteries after about 8 month's they were really low on fluid. It's just a simple system compared to yours but I was surprised they lost so much battery acid. I filled them up with rain water.
KISS, generator when it's cold and cloudy, golf cart batteries above 50%, and use the hoe when it's dry and chop wood when it's damp out.
The biggest problem with the old Ford TLBs and most other brands as well is that the backhoe does not fold up very tight to the machine, but hang back a fair amount compaired to newer machines. This keeps the front end vey light when the bucket is empty. Your Ford power steering pump should be belt driven. Mine was replaced by one off a old Ford pickup. The entire system resembles an old Ford pickup and a entire system could probably be fairly adapted to your tractor. I agree with the tire chains front and rear. It makes a day to night difference. Use a old pair of cut down log truck or oilfield chains on the front. If you were closer I'd give you a set. They should be easy to find for little to nothing. Throw a wanted add on Facebook or Craigs list. The weight added to the front tires will help keep the steering axle on the ground when the bucket is empty beside adding steering traction. When not using the backhoe, dropping the bucket off makes a huge handling difference as well as giving you more ground clearance under the dipper. Now after saying this, I must confess. I sold my old Fordson TLB a month ago. I had not used it as a backhoe in the last few years after buying my 931 Cat with 4n1 and quiktach hoe.
Technically your supposed to equalize them every 30 days as I would except problem with my system is I didn't cycle them enough for use and wasn't around to do so when it was in Washington state. Had I been in Montana since I had them or anywhere but the Pacific Northwest they would of survived. Having solar in a place that gets 1.5 hrs on average of sunlight a day is not going to be cheap to keep them up. Requires 10 - 13% of the AH to charge them which at 50 amps going in on my system requires a lot of generator running time especially when it's a 10kw. Supposed to use deionized water or distilled water to fill them up. When you design a system you design it to run on so many days without sunlight while trying to keep the SOC above 80% for maximum cycles it will last. We are in a camper that fits in the back of a pickup truck none of that works on wood and such. Generator is for those very rare longer than average days without sunlight and for equalizing the batteries. Basically the system was not cycled enough and remained below the allotted SOC a battery should be at and couple times went to 0% when I wasn't around for a week. I believe the batteries on the semi dragged them down through parasitic draw. This system was not designed for Pacific Northwest rain forest as no solar system would be, it's counterintuitive. Newer system will be forklift battery that can be turned from series/parallel to series when I get my house built, which means going from 24V to 48V. Ordering some bifacial panels to put enough amps out for size of the bank and hooking up another charge controller that will follow the one I currently have and never going back to that side of Washington state, after all I snapped the rear axle on my Mystery Ship, it needs to go into retirement. Current system I built 1800 watts solar panels, Midnite 150SL charge controller, (8) GC batteries 440 AH @24V to combiner box one throw shut-down switch and 6kw 120/240V inverter/charger. Yes the inverter is oversized but it is for future growth as I need now.
Seem to want gold for them on Craigslist here for set of chains more than they want for new ones that go for $500, thinking I might make my own. Problem is I have to rip apart the steering and diagnose where it broke. Somehow they disconnected the lines to the steering ram and the pump isn't pumping out fluid everywhere as I guess that's what it would do. I can find the pump easy just not the steering ram they left the ports wide open on it for rain to get into. Let me finish this half hoop workshop and I will tear into it.
Ripped the front off and took look around while following the lines. They disconnected the lines going to hydraulic steering ram and left it laying in there then ran the line back to the steering pump, so it's a loop for the pump. Where they disconnected it from the ram it's pitted with rust and trash in it, that hydraulic steering ram is shot. Seems to be cheaper to pay for a whole Ford 4500 backhoe for $4000 or less than spend $850 on used ram at least I will have hard to find parts on hand if I keep this thing. https://www.ebay.com/itm/C5NN3N500D...223657?hash=item1a75a9fa69:g:nEoAAOSwkvdaeM4W
It’s at C5NN-3N500-C I need along with other parts. Right where number 36 is pointing at in the picture is snapped off on the eyelet. Also missing part numbers 15, 16, 17 and 18.
I know are out in No Man's Land but has to be a Hydraulics shop around. See if they can rebuild what you have, tie rod cylinders can be rebarreled readily and the cylinder rod made by hand of replaceable parts.
Month later and still haven't found a hydraulic repair shop, all shops are frowning at what I want done and it's as if I'm not worth their time or due to Covid-19 ( insert pathetic reason ). Fast forward the FEL valve spool has gave me the middle finger and I have no clue what size lines are going on it on feed and return, it needs rebuilt or better yet thrown away with the steel lines are junk and it won't lift the FEL anymore, yes the hydraulic fluid is full. At my wits end with a backhoe I can't find parts for, next to impossible to steer when loaded, and hydraulic shops blowing me off.
Next up buy the replacement machine, see what can be utilized off the old one in special projects, junk out the remainder.
That's my thoughts exactly https://southcoast.craigslist.org/hvo/d/east-freetown-ford-4500-backhoe/7305530220.html
surely you can find one further away.
Would be thinking quite a bit Closer and Running as a Priority.
My bad, let me see if England has a few About to start looking at Case 580's at this rate of despair. Anyone have a clue on the size of fittings on it namely the bottom ones or GPM on it so I can put a generic in? After all I am still enjoying my workout with the steering on it and don't mind dropping few gallons of hydraulic fluid while digging, adds in the lubrication of getting the dirt dug up. The best feature I like is so much slope in the backhoe I can level it out on the stabilizers and dig at a 22.5 degree angle. Close but not it... https://www.ebay.com/itm/293809336652?hash=item446866b14c:g:M88AAOSwlI1fnjUe
Wait!!! We got another problem to add in the mix now is leaking diesel from the tank looks to be pin hole from rust.
If one were to flare their own hydraulic steel lines of around 3/4 to 7/8 of an inch what brand flaring tool would you use or kit?
I bought maintenance parts from the Deere dealer, and probably paid a premium. But I want my local guy to stay in business, and want service when I need it. Saving a couple of bucks buying mail order seems short sighted when someday, I need questions answered or someone to come out for a repair.
If I can find the parts I can fix it and I'm just a blip on the screen compared to these farmers and ranchers out here.
At least for plumbing, the Rigid tool is fantastic. You just have to figure out what flare type you need. I think there are two.
Trying to get a 37 degree flare JIC, not a 45 degree flare for plumbing.
Found one and it is from Rigid, just not meant for plumbing though. https://www.toolup.com/ridgid-41285-Tool-Flare-375?psrid=wtbs_608a1f773330444ec7b3fd4d
You may want to find someone who has used on. Flaring steel lines takes some effort. That little t handle might make it really hard to flare steel. I am sure copper is no problem. I have flared many 5/16" and 3/8" fuel lines over the years and those take some effort to flare. 3/4" and 7/8" will be a magnitude more difficult.
Spencer Fluid Power in Billings can do any repair related to hydraulics. They’ve built several new rods for me, and seem reasonably priced for the work they do. The cheapest rods I’ve had done cost $350 each. If I remember correctly, they were 40 mm rod and about 2 feet long. I usually feel screwed when I leave a machine shop, but that place has treated me well, and they do quality work.
I have a small crawler, a Dresser TD7G. I rarely use it in wet conditions because the track frame gets full if fine sand clumps. I wait for dry conditions when I can more easily clean the track frame out. As for sliding, the sideways thing is a bad one. Frozen ground (about four months here) it is real prone to sliding. A backhoe, I've had one two wheel drive, 3 four wheel drive. I use a four wheel drive backhoe very frequently. It is very versatile in all weather. Tire chains are a tremendous help in winter, I don't much use them in summer.
Thanks I will definitely look them up, maybe they can rebuild the controls on the FEL.
Guess I am headed to Georgia, found this for $3,000.
You do see all the welding, extra steel on the cross brace, and rewelding of the extra steel where it cracked again- on the front end loader? And that the top of the bucket is caved in from the chains they likely had over it- lifting whatever it was that's cracked the front loader arms? If they busted up the front loader that bad, what did it do to the front axle and the rest of the loader structure? Surely you can find something closer and in the extra traveling (fuel and wear and tear) saved, give a little more $$$ to get a better loader?
Was gonna say are you just digging a Deeper hole$$$$?
Actually what I am going for is the hydraulics, the steering ram and such, the valve controls maybe spare engine parts, the boom on the back and it's controls. I tried few places and been looking past two months, found a dismantling place that had whole one they wanted $6k for it whole with small tree growing through it or $500 for the controllers each and $1250 for the roll cage. I don't want to toss a backhoe cause I can't find parts or buy another one of different brand trying to find parts for it too. Actually minus the bucket it looks in better condition than mine. https://www.machinerypete.com/detai...lass-search-highlight-ford-span/4500/20245575 Here is the ones I have found so far that were either sold, dismantled and sold or didn't have parts https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings/construction-equipment/auctions/online/204270851/ford-4500 https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/204187067/1976-ford-4500 https://spokane.craigslist.org/hvo/d/elk-1978-ford-4500-industrial/7292068276.html https://skagit.craigslist.org/grd/d/oak-harbor-ford-tractor-backhoe-4500/7299879870.html https://skagit.craigslist.org/grd/d/oak-harbor-ford-tractor-backhoe-4500/7299879870.html https://www.equipmenttrader.com/Salvaged-Equipment/listing/1970-FORD-4500-5005017593 There is more to this list but you get the idea and they are all over 1000 miles away.
Not trying to discredit anyone, just I'm at my wits end, either I A. Do what I am doing B. Attempt fixing it enough to not drop 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid a day (almost like cartoons where a hole pops in the boat and you stick your finger in the hole to plug it only for another hole to pop up) or wag the boom around after each bump or it go all the way one direction going sideways across a hill. C. Consider the backhoe total loss and spend $10k plus to get another backhoe make/model that has issues of some sort. D. Say fuq it I had enough stress. I'm sore after running it for a day and it's not cause I'm weak, it's there is no power steering and I "might" get 3 loads a day loaded up in the rinky dink grain truck to dump it only a mile down the road (across 3 properties) 2.5 to 4 tons of gravel.
I bought a T/L/B in about the same condition although it didn't have a steering problem. I repaired the worse oil leaks as soon as I got it home. After that I just kept fixing one thing at a time as my budget and time would allow. Eventually I ended up with very decent looking and dependable machine. Spud; I had to replace every hose on it. I replaced every hose on the backhoe all at once with hoses made up by a a CNH dealer's shop. They were sorry ass poor quality junk ! I replaced all of them with Parker and Aero-Quip hoses. You are not alone in the misery you are dealing with.
Got a call from the guy this morning he is 78 years ago with him asking where I was it's been a week since talked with him when I just called him yesterday This could go sideways in so many ways it's not funny.
Go see him.Tell him that he told you could have it for FREE ! LOL !
Wife said same thing!
Sorry spud, I'm not trying to be rough on you, I just think that with your location, I'd be looking for a better piece of equipment. Replacing hoses is no fun if you have to travel 6 hours to get a hose. If you have to give $3,000 for this one, and if I remember right you had to give something similar or more for the one you have. Then by the time you figure the fuel and wear and tear on the hauling vehicle- and you have to count that- look what you've spent fixing truck and trailer. I'm thinking you could have been better off buying a $20,000 one that's close and in much better shape, and it would have been cheaper in the long run. Buy something you can use on the property for the next 20 years, not something "just to get by" for a little while. You'll have already spent over 10k between your old one and this other one in georgia, I'm going to say closer to 15 if you figure your hauling and repair work. Good luck.
4x4 Cat - so parts are at least available. I don't think the cat ones are the most popular because they are kind of slow, but I think they are pretty hard to hurt. Under $10,000. https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/204310863/cat-426 If you could stretch the budget a little, you could end up with cab and a real horse of a machine. This is 100+ hp and almost 20,000lbs. 4x4 at $14,000 https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/204375543/2001-cat-446b
MULTIPLE Pluses on that even if is 'Rough', 4/1 bucket, ROPS, 4x4 and CAT with parts available.
Nice backhoe in first listing though look at picture of back boom hydraulic ram, looks to be welded right above the pivot point. Anyways here's the dilemma, got here when we did in middle of winter ran backhoe far as possible till enough is enough and won't go any further without replacing and rebuilding tons of parts with the backhoe I am going to get. We are talking rams, steering ram, boom, and other stuff you can not universally get to replace and can't be repaired and for any future repairs. Would love to afford one of those you have listed but that would require about 6 months of savings and a pole barn needs to go up in next 90 days or less (main atrium) if possible which requires excavation of about 40 by 32 feet for whole project of 5 to 6 ft down to make it level enough, it's about halfway there. At latest I need this done before first frost hits here. Also have a gravel pit that I am moving rock from that is precarious on time frame of anything can go to shut it down before I am done i.e. they decide to sell the place, that I am taking too long, their son wants to move in and doesn't want anyone there list goes on. This will not jut be a grab a parts backhoe either, between the two I will decide which one gets all the parts that I am getting, the one that doesn't get the parts will be stripped down to basic tractor format, which FEL and backhoe will be taken off along with all hydraulics except the hydraulic motor, at which point I will convert the tractor to a hydraulic driven bush hog with other implements to run by hydraulics. I can always drive a tractor with no weight on the front without power steering that's easy and won't be mowed much, might get one or two cuttings here a season just enough to keep fuel from any wildfires away. Not going to spend my whole summer and next winter in a truck camper with nothing to do cause backhoe went down and all my projects are shutdown. Somethings you can't put a price on out here especially when it comes to my sanity.
You have a no win dilemma. Parts backhoes like Jeeps & Power Wagons are certain to have the same failed parts as the beloved one. You spend several thousand buying & transporting. Then you still need to buy more parts to fix. Meanwhile, the jobs you NEED to do with the machine go undone 'cause you are occupied working on a backhoe that won't be very valuable repaired. I have owned four backhoes, those I sold, I sold at a profit as long as I don't factor labor. I'd have been better off to buy a nice one first.
Been down said road with my own orphan, derelict donor was to be runner, was in worse condition than runner and had to rebuild anything coming off it except rails, where shoes were the epitome of crap anyway. IF need to get it done now or over a few months are going to be wasting much time swapping repairing and hammering on second unit rather than running it or first unit. Trust me, been there done that, be less expense renting one now from a rental shop, getting the work done needing done and then working machines LATER.
One aspect of buying a decent reasonably priced machine is that it can be bought with a smaller bite out of your finances. All the while you are repairing and replacing parts, it slowly becomes a very nice and (hopefully) dependable machine. That is what I did and i would not hesitate to do it again. Naturally I had hoses burst at the worse possible times, but It was never a disaster as far as getting something done.
Spud your time is worth lot more than you are paying yourself. you have a goal before first frost, and your plan has you wrenching and fixing old iron through the prime working time. If you are backed into a corner by this decision, go rent something for $1200~$1800 and knock out all that work with nice working iron, and focus on goals done rather than money spent on a rental. It is in your budget now and gets the important job done and right.
There is a method to this madness, insanity for sanity.
I would make #1 priority getting that pole building up, so you can work on old iron in the winter by making a tarp ball around it and heating with some propane.
"There is a method to this madness, insanity for sanity." Awesome, Spud !!! LOL !!!!
Thanks as I have just passed your house (Illinois)and I know for sure I have passed @DMiller house and @crane operator house (Missouri) as I sit here typing this in Kentucky. BTW got the part in Friday for the Subaru hub/stub assembly, CV axle all installed with new brakes and the car is on the back of the trailer right now, plus I have driven 1500 miles so far in past 48 hrs be there before noon tomorrow... Maybe I can get lucky and sneak it out of there for $2000, hold my drink watch this...
Reading this thread it sounds like maybe you are planning to build your own house? Starting with the pole building? Sounds like fun! I just got my first backhoe a couple days ago delivered. I totally agree with what a lot of people here are saying, try to buy a good machine in the first place, or go fix your current one. Buying a second machine for $3000 just for the parts and transporting it back home.... in your situation I wouldn't reccomend that. Just find a shop to repair the power steering and move on. Or find the part you need online and move on. You got other work that needs done bro! You cant be dicking with this thing too much longer. And yes, Id be buying chains for all 4 tires and seeing how that works out for you in the mud. I looked at a old ford 750 backhoe (posted about it here) before buying my current case 580 super k. So glad I didn't buy that old ford. Ya I'm sure I could have gotten it up and running and maybe make it a nice machine over time, but I stretched myself as much as I could to buy the nicest machine I could possibly buy, and with just a few small repairs should be ready to work for me this summer. I spend 11k on that 580... the Ford I could have bought for $3500, maybe $3000. And a big part too of spending that extra money initially was that now I have a machine that is 4x4 and extendahoe, which the ford didn't have. Our time is valueable. Good luck in whatever you decide to do man! Keep us updated!
Yes our time is valuable, either I spend twice as long or three times trying to steer the old one with no power steering on each task and add them up to a month. Been looking since January for the part online at least a rebuildable core I don't care if it worked or not, it's not a universal ram you can buy on www.supplysurplus.com or any sight for that matter. There is 3 different variations and the one I did find that doesn't work with mine that was in stock at the time was $850. That's just part of the problem for an example. So lets say all is lost with backhoe, $11k would require another 6 plus months of doing nothing, zilch nothing. Then lets adding rental for a machine $1500 a week, not much can be had in 40 hrs in what I need done, more of if I have 400 hours I might get it done. Now lets break down the costs of getting this @$3000 which would equal $1500 in fuel and the rest of expenses are for bean counting. That's $4500 which would get me about a month in rental of 160 hrs or so and you only have some work to show for it but no machinery to complete task at hand. I'm not picking 232 pound poles up by hand setting them upright in the holes on top of the 200 lb reinforced concrete pads as I weld them to the anchors, surely not picking the trusses I welded from pipe up either. Took a week vacation cause I work from sun up to sun down 7 days a week here and went and got it, it sits on back of my trailer now for a paltry $2200. Could of been a wasted trip but we are taking it as a vacation so as to make more of it than just getting a backhoe. Had to put some muscle into it but I got it on the trailer with a chain hoist and a dedicated wife to help. Loading it up was fun it was almost as if we were in suburbia in Seattle plus the traffic coming by, no room to park except in a ditch and signs saying no trailers over 30' or over 18 tons, but we did it. Had previous owner not put his di ck beaters on it would of drove right up the ramps, no he pulled the injectors with no clue thinking he could bleed the air from the lines that way. I sat on the nose facing backwards and straddling the hood bottle feeding it starter fluid while the wife drove it up the hill out the yard. When we got it lined up with the ramps it was very steep the bucket dragged and we started it while in gear and pulled with chain hoist at same time. When I get it home I will spend another week move parts around and we will have a operating backhoe till next spring which by then I will have enough saved up to buy a nice one and possibly sell the two as a deal package.
I've said it before and it still holds true. NO ONE SHOULD GET INFRONT OF SPUD MONKEY. he will absolutely steam roll right over you and not think twice.
I admire your creativity and perseverance Spudmonkey. You sure are an interesting person ! I mean that in a good way. I also like your reasoning for not renting and buying a parts machine. I would have done the same.
I would have bought a parts machine too, but not that far, I thought you were going to Tiblisi. Next time, give up pictures of the problem first, there's always a way to cobble something if you don't feel like buying a whole machine for one part.
With Ford you think the power steering would have been used on other tractors and just need to find out which ones. They were pretty popular in the day and a tractor wrecker somewhere might just have what you're looking for. I know for some heavy equipment there is a network of dealers who sell used parts and have a data base to help find what you're looking for. The shop that did my engine found a cast oil pan used to replace the stamped pan that got a hole punched in it through the opening for the drain. Had to cut bolts the proper length to install it but the cast pan is a big improvement. The cast pan was $350 and a new stamped pan was about $750 if I recall. I have a bolt on cover for the drain plug now.
4500 was built from the 4000 farm tractor. Scratch the yellow paint, there is blue underneath. Axle was beefier, maybe power steering too.
Even if that part is the only one in the world, lots of tractor makers used a similar power steering system based on a sloppy mechanical linkage operating the valve on the top, and the valve operating a similar cylinder. I know Spud could fit a valve and cylinder from a Ford, **, Leyland or whatever's at the junkyard into that backhoe. Or run lines from the existing valve to a hydraulic cylinder mounted on the tie rod like newer systems. Less hassle than running to Georgia? maybe not. So if the new power steering doesn't work quite right, we can figure it out, probably.
New one works pretty well from the cranking and the wife was able to drive it as I rode the hood up the hill. Plus I can fill it when I crank on it turning the wheel to steer it up the trailer. Anywho disclaimer: I did not take these pictures, but enjoy! Team work!!! Wife driving I'm spraying notice the exhaust smoke... Nice place to set the ramps up Up we go
Got to admit, wife did get a sort of vacation to another state.
Yes she did and a few states she hasn't been to. I will play nice and reward her with a trip to Laura Ingalls Wilder house in South Dakota on the way home since she enjoys the Little House on the Prairie books amongst others. Watching Blackhawks flying over our heads here in Kentucky near Ft. Campbell KY and she is giving me this weird "don't you think about it" look
You're spoiling her. But manning the hoist tugging your sorry A$s onto the trailer will keep her in shape! 1980 early winter the town water system was 100 years old galvanized 2" water pipe. It was surprisingly good condition except where a thread had been cut. It might run hundreds of feet, with factory threads on galv 21' pipe, then a 16' with cut thread one end. The close friend hired to dig my water line was nowhere to be found when the operator of the water system came to me. He worried about me turning the street off in cold weather. It was about to turn very cold. After an hour or more trying to locate the owner of the Ford 4500 he had brought, I dug it up to make the tap. As luck would have it, the field threaded joint was 2' from my tap. It started spewing! My friend got involved. By 7:00 PM in December we had a section replaced & tapped with a union. That 4500 was one of two bought new by brothers on the same day. Not that one, the other is still in use by the grandson of the other brother. I hate the thing! Four lever control is no fun, I can't move it without a front bucket full, front wheels don't touch the ground. steering is with brakes. It seems to always be wallowing as if two flat tires.
Sounds like you got a abnormal sized bucket on the back cause I manage to keep the wheels on the ground until I hit about 21 percent grade and it's doing a wheelie up which I put the stabilizers down just in case it gets out of control. As for the four lever controls, only part I hate is not having ability to work 2 or more controls simultaneously unless this new one I got can do so, then I really would be moving along. Without power steering, steering was done with brakes here too best I could with something in the FEL bucket.
Transport latches are usually non functional on these hogs & boom settles. Gotta frequently pull it back up.
Holy smokes, at those prices listed earlier i stole my 4500, and it works really well. I just saw one of these machines at 1500 for the whole machine with a bad motor in ohio. Ill say i really like my 4500, i bought it with a bunch of advice from these guys, if you find one not too far from pittsburgh i can do some scouting for you. Seems the prices around here are way better than out there.
ALL Wives have that "look", is fair warning that the reprisal will be severe IF you go there!!!!
@Spud_Monkey if you roll through Dayton on your way home (seems unlikely) look me up! You guys are beasts hoisting that thing on the truck and your ramps look terrifying!
Hey Spud. You are missing a lucrative opportunity if you are not youtubering your adventures. There is a sizeable segment of viewers who just eat up all the "will it start" and "cheapest worst in the country" videos. You get someone like Vetech hooked who likes a good mechanical/trainwreck drama and he will be talking about it to every counter jockey he runs into. You will have 1/2 million subs and the money will be rolling in before you know it. You seem like a younger, but just as ornery Warren - Western Truck &Tractor Repair. Seriously. I am only half joking...
the 4500 was actually closer to a 5000 than a 4000 series. power steering, transmissions, and others were similar if not exact to 5000 models. Owned a couple 4500's and still have one. In there days they were severe workhorses. Ford made the hydraulics so powerful and the metal so thin than most of them broke in multiple places. I recently rebuilt the front power steering cylinder on mine and it was not to bad a job. Did have a slight problem when I got it back on the tractor, wheels always pulled in one direction which is why I took it off in the first place. Took it back off and when through it again. This time I powered it up on the bench with air pressure and sure enough the attached spool was slightly leaking in one direction. There was no way to adjust anything in the spool to keep it in any sort of center position. I had to figure for a while but then put a dial indicator on the spool and found that moving the spool valve 0.020 resulted in no leaks. Took the spool valve apart ( hard to get everything back together, not enough hands) and installed a 0.020 shim on the proper side. Worked like a charm when done. One other note: The design and operation of the power steering system being so complex, it is absolutely necessary that there be no play in any of the system. this goes from the drag link ends, the various sector arms, and the cylinder ends. I had to completely remove all these components and make new bushings where necessary. Any slop and the system won't work right. Good luck.
I guess I was wrong, I thought it was "slop compensated" like the ** and Leylands. I'll have to look up the system and see.
Well after 4000 miles, 2 trailer tires, one semi tire, and an arsehol Illinois DOT officer I made it home. Speaking of which I like to apologize to the residents of Illinois for wasting few of your bucks after being threatened by one of your officers cause I pointed out he was wrong. Pulled into weigh station and he pointed me to the back of all rigs which was fine, I parked and went in with my paperwork he wanted registration and said he could ticket me for no MC or DOT authority numbers since he didn’t believe I was hauling my own equipment which he proceeded to call in my car license plate to see who owner was, so I calmly pulled out the registration to my car too and handed it to him. Seemed mad at that told me to drive back around and get on the scale and he would give me my registration back afterwards. So I proceeded on to the scale and he walked up and said he could give me a $2000 ticket for no fuel permit since I am over 26k, I said I’m registered as farm vehicle and he said no I’m not it’s not on your plates, yes I am it’s on my registration. There is no farm plates in Montana and I can run my veteran plates on this rig. Welp he got mad and told me to leave that he never saw me here or he was going to put me out of service he will find something. So being proud of my work and angry told him let’s get started cupcakes. By time all was said and done and I got back on the road it was 3 hrs later ticket free. Never knew was a class 1 DOT inspection was but I sure know now.
Thing about this forum is not many to see what is done here and I can chose how much I show and how much information one gets of me. Sell your soul to YouTube and they got your banking information, full name, address and anyone can get most of this information through a FOIA Freedom Of Information Act. With said information you are now a puppet, do as they say or else they can crash your life. Other ways to make money if one wants to, I rather be poor and happy than mediocre rich and stressed out. I have walked both roads and many others.
You are a wealth of information, Spudmonkey ! I never knew how much snooping YouTube does until now. Thanks for exposing that ! Google is the worse outfit for an invasion of privacy in the US there is. I think they own YouTube. The fiasco with the know it all (not) cop was awesome. Kudos to you. Fascinating trip you went on ! Your photos are priceless !
Welcome to the class 1 recent inspection club, and welcome home!
Thanks!!! Duck Duck Go for searching, though they give nothing but companies results when searching for things on first page, run a VPN ( I am on here with random IP addresses from random countries) and use a DOH (DNS over HTTP) Cloudfare is basic one there are others out there and if you want to get creative run a Tor it's basic onion routing system that bounces off several IP addresses every so many seconds minutes. Basically goes through one IP address to another to another then to the website you want to search and moves around. Yes Google owns YouTube or Alphabet company that is what they are called. There's you some more wealth of knowledge to wrap your head around. I'm sure if they could of given an anal cavity search they would of went with it to top it off. Thanks!!!
Dam, Spudmonkey you sure on top of the ways of the internet. I also use a VPN at times. I have for years ! We can see fascinating things in foreign countries that cannot be seen with US based IP addresses. Duck Duck Go is an awesome search engine. I also have been using it for a while. Especially in my Iphone. I never felt a need to use the Tor browser. It blocks some things I want to see on the internet.
I've recently learned what a PC & a CDROM are.
Been slapping a keyboard for 35 years or more played with my first one was IBM room computer a college tossed for the "PC" ones and my dad dragged it home and so it began from there. Commodore 64, Apple, DOS, Windows 3.1 and everything afterwards.Built them also as my dad did as side business and I helped build them too. Incorporate that with heavy equipment with where the future is going with them and I fit in that niche if I can get my hands on the software and hardware or know what the parameters are to run multi meter on them. Might want to forget that knowledge CD Rom (Compact Disc Read Only Memory) are now writable with CD burners which CD's in themselves for programs are going obsolete for SD cards (Secure Digital) and online subscriptions for the program. instead of just buying the program. PC's (Personal Computers) will eventually phase out though always be work stations for businesses that share their work over a LAN (Local Area Network) and in some cases WAN (Wide-Area Networks)
Dealt with much of this late in life at the Nuke, ended up getting our own PC and comfortable with that, had a netbook to take on cycle rides to research and review what was around us as came to stops but that has fallen to disuse as iphones got more capable. Eventually I suspect all data lines will become wireless, more apt to be screened by third and fourth parties, more able to be hacked into/onto by the less than desirable types but then again may end up with a solar neutron EMP burst or worse a weapon used as a high altitude neutron EMP and wipe out 99% of all our conveniences. Not too electron smart but manage to get thru it, SAM or CAN-BUS throws me some but I relate back to the early Cadillac high tech electronics that were damned similar, we do ourselves a disfavor making machines as we deal with too reliant of sensitive electronics, they do/did not do away with the repairman just changed up his job. Edit: Had a Demineralized water plant and demineralizing system for the condenser water system as well a number of old analog systems that would throw up in a heartbeat at the nuke, learned to drive them in hand to support operations when the electrical side took a dump, all that has been uprated to fully integrated electronic controls, lose a frame and lose the equipment as there is NO IN HAND methodology without the electronics system driving. Such is what happened at Colonial Pipeline, too dependent of electronics controls where as hacked could not be over ridden to successfully use the system. Not everything man has needs to be electronically actuated, electrically yes, electronically not really.
What happened to the Colonial Pipeline and all the other systems that have been compromised by hackers is inexcusable.
Got the backhoe up and running after all new lines and such, well the front end loader controls that I took off the recently bought backhoe hydraulics are doing the same as last ones I taken off. No power to lift the front end loader up unless max RPM, other than that all hydraulics run fine no leaks on the new lines so I know it's not losing pressure from that, I can hear it in the controls the hydraulic fluid circulates back. Anyone want to give a gander on rebuild price or should I just swap it out for a new universal one (Which is the direction I am looking at).
Please throw some gauges on it to verify what you "hear" I'd be interested in input and circuit pressure. what are the odds two valve are both internally bypassing
It's just the lift bypassing is what I hear when pulling lever. It has power to push down just not lift, at idle when pulling lever it goes down. It would be about 3 weeks before I could attempt at getting a gauge on it.
You have a cylinder blown internally It will get hot as the oil circulates too fast thru it.
You are correct! I found out after I performed a country side hydraulic test, crack line a half turn and if it shoots over 20' it's working and it did just that so I knew the valve body was still good. Got off and accidentally found it by standing next to it I could hear it gush inside the cylinder while I pulled the lever, something I couldn't hear while on it. I need some hearing aids or something. Anywho now I need to repair a lift cylinder, which in mean time take one off the other backhoe I bought and run it till winter then rebuild it.