Happy holidays everyone, I am having some trouble keeping tires on the rims this is about the 9th tire that has come off in the past month, they seem to break the seal and go flat and its not the same one all the time, I'm running 55psi in the tires and been checking making sure none are low before I go out, another let go today and the o ring came right out and laid in the snow this happened with the others to, I'm running Michelin's same one's I've been running for years which are great in the snow and ice great all around tire, this has never happened before like this, I'm running the 140m now any idea's what's going on? thanks so much :Banghead
Have you checked your air gauge for accuracy?
Yes we thought of that to, tried 3 different ones we have in the shop all are within each other, we can't seem to figure it out we are running out of things to try, it's not like we are doing anything to cause it to happen you can be simply be driving straight to your next road and next thing you no it one has gone flat, we have changed rims we have tried new rims with al new hard wear still happening, anyone else ever had this problem. thanks
No punctures? Bead seating properly? That is a weird one. I would suggest talking to the Michelin dealer in the area. Maybe overinflating upon assembly to make sure its seated properly
No punctures, Yes this is what I was thinking on doing, but it seems like the tire dealer is using smaller o rings they say there not, what pressure should I bring it up to for it to seat properly?, also I was thinking about running 65psi instead of 55psi to see if that helps keep them from breaking the seal. thanks
Could you possibly be using a tyre that is too narrow or too wide for the rim..? In that case the tyre bead will not sit square on the rim and will be prone to rolling off. What width of rim do you have and what size tyre..?
Seems like you're just losing pressure as you're working and running it off the bead. Have you checked the pressure as you work?
I allways check pressure before I leave to go out, I try to keep and eye on the tire's lately when plowing but they just seem to let go, I'm going to try putting more psi in the tires to see if they hold I do have a wing hanging of the side of her in the back but never had any trouble before. thanks
Hi Nige, they are the factory size tires the machine came with from Michelin, same ones which are a great tire, I can't think of the size right of hand but whatever comes on a 140m 2007, this machine is prone to unbelievable gremlins. I never had this problem when running the 140h with same tires, my only thoughts are to put more psi in the tires and hope for the best, nothing and I mean nothing is worst than changing a grader tire or tires in the middle of the night in a snowstorm, what are you thoughts on this? thanks
I saw an article in a construction equipment magazine probably 15 - 20 years ago where they took 10 professional truck drivers with about 25 years average experience and had them "check" their tire pressures with their favorite tire knockers. The results showed that they couldn't even tell when a tire was 50 lbs. low on air. Just wondering if you'd ever spot checked your pressures with a gauge while you were running. My guess is that you do have an o-ring problem. Edit: If it were me and I was buying the tires from that dealer, I would get a 24 hour contact phone number from them. I'd bet that would solve the problem in a day or two.
So is this a new problem with the machine or has the same issue existed for as long as you've had it..? A call to your local Michelin dealer giving them the machine model and exact tyre data and asking for a cold inflation pressure recommendation might pay dividends.
This is a new problem with this machine, funny the other m series machines in our fleet are not having any issue's what's so ever with these tires, we all got new back tires changed together the same day from the same tire shop, we have 3 m's and 4 h's in our district all running that type tire, no problems on the 140h's either, I will get our mech to call Michelin, he does not like changing grader tires in the middle of the night either. thanks so much
Also Nige the engine keeps throwing a code air intake manifold comes up on screen red engine light comes on then loses power maybe 40% power loss, the code say's intake manifold sensor we changed the sensor light went out back to normal reading on screen than hour into operating light back on power loss same code on screen if we shut the machine of it seems to reset back to normal for a while then same thing happens all over again, sorry to bother you with this but I thought I ask while I got you on the forum. thanks so much
It might be something intermittent like a wiring or connection fault rather than the sensor itself. Can you be more specific - is the fault air intake manifold restriction..? AFAIK this code will cause the engine to derate if it is active. Have you checked the air filter condition by chance..?
Thanks for the reply, the screen says air intake with a numbered code, the code when looked up points out faulty sensor, we replaced sensor still does the same thing, air filter is brand new, we recently replaced the main engine wiring harness in late October the code would come up briefly with red engine light then go out for a hour or two before the harness replacement, also we had to replace the air to air which had a crack in its frame, our mobile mech took the new sensor out the other night while out on my shift plowing, I was doing the shutting down for a bit reset so light would go out and get power back, the mech cleaned the sensor and that seemed to help for 3-4 hrs but now the light is back on again throwing a code, what are your thoughts on this? thanks
It would help to know exactly what the code is that you are seeing. Also the S/N prefix of the machine. B9D perchance..?
Good point on the rim width Nige. I would get out the tape measure. Also inspect O ring after the occurrence to see if it has been compromised. Talk to tire dealer about what is safe inflation pressure to make sure bead is fully seated. I would be checking pressure frequently until you get the problem resolved
thanks I will do that
I will get the code its putting out for you also the s/n I don't know it right of hand, I do know that it is a 2007 140m vhp non re-gene system, the engine is a c7, hope this helps. thanks
Not really. I need the S/N prefix and the actual code you're seeing.
I will get it for you today. thanks so much
this tire thing has been bothering me...if I was the one getting up at 3 am, at -10C to change out a frozen tire with a broken bead this is what I would probably do: Pull the problematic wheels one at a time and leak test them, hopefully with a tank, if not, the old standby of soapy water in a spray bottle. Get the beads CLEAN. And the graders I worked on years ago had tubed tires, I suspect tubeless now. Maybe it is time to get out our dye penetrant kit, or the magnetic NDE kit and look for RIM failures. Best of luck. Howard
Going out on a limb here ('cause I don't work on tires that much, but we are at 2 pages of not solving the problem yet) O ring could be sealing but bead ring has not slid "fully home" all the way out because it's bent ? Lock ring could be down and in its groove, but if bead ring is not tight all the way around (because it's bent) might allow some "walking or squirming" of the bead when it gets side loaded. Can you get a shim or putty knife in the joint between lock ring and bead ring in a spot or two ?
We ordered new rim hard wear today also running our psi at 65 up from 55 now that our winter attachments have been put on, we also did the soap and water test today with nothing showing up, some of the locks were bent alittle in a couple spots but were not leaking, with new hardwear and higher psi we will see what happens. thanks
is it the same wheel every time or all of them on that machine I really dont think there is any need at all to check tire pressure while your running if there is air in them they will stay on 55 65 20 pounds it doesnt matter the tires dont just fall off If its the same wheel every time I would have thrown it behind the shop after the second time if its all of them they would go to a different tire shop possibly the cat dealer to get sorted out
The tires seem to take turns sometimes right rear or left front tandem or right or left front tire I know its crazy unfortunately there is only one tire shop in town that handles grader tires and generally they are pretty good to deal with they are scratching there heads to they never encountered this much trouble with grader tires either , cat is 200miles away, 70 miles to next shop if you can get booked in, so we try to work with what we have and sort things out. thanks
Way over my pay grade , but I'd be going up the chain with the shop and then Michelin if the shop can't find something. Can't wait to hear how this one turns out.
Did they put new O rings on when they changed the tires? My thought is that they might have used a slightly smaller metric almost equivalent diameter O ring and when you are out in the "cold" plowing snow they are shrunk enough to leak.
...and so you might want to check your pressure as you work to see if they're leaking, then you could rule that out instead of guessing.:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse:deadhorse
No such thing as a metric tyre o-ring AFAIK. They are all inch sizes. In other news the OP contacted me regarding his inlet manifold code. As I said before I can't download procedures at the moment because I'm away from my regular computer. The registered fault is - "Intake manifold abnormal rate of change. Engine ECM code 1785-10". According to the troubleshooting guide RENR9333 for a B9M prefix 140M the diagnostic procedure for this fault is "Sensor Signal (Analog, Active) - Test". I can see it but can't download it. Can someone do the OP a big favour and download the procedure for him.....?
Are any of the valve stem caps missing? I have seen sand push into the stem before and cause leaks. I'd think snow could do the same but I'm a little short on experience with the fluffy white stuff. If that's happening and the machine is parked in a heated shop, you'd never notice it. Also, there are several wheel and tire arrangements(and certain wheel groups) that CANNOT BE USED WITH ANY OTHER TIRE AR. per the parts book. Just wondering if some components got mixed and matched.
Track down some cold weather O rings. We had purchased some from Tech tire supplies. I believe they have a green stripe. The weak link here is the O ring; perhaps off shore and not quite up to spec. They are in the Tech catalog on page 71 and they list a standard and arctic option. Also an L ring for rims and rings that not quite compatible. The latter only seem to be available in 25 inch diameter. IMHO they make the best tire repair supplies and their catalog is extensive.
Are those recaps or virgin tires? Seems odd to me to have that much trouble across several different tires. I'm assuming the tire you're talking about are X ones or something to that effect. We've had excellent luck with those. We did have an older set of tires (not Michelins) that had air get between the tread and the carcass of the tire. They just literally "bubble". I have seen some recaps that had some chunks out of the bead and gave grief. I think whenever the tire shop dealt with those, they threw half a pail of their "goo" in there to seat the tire.
Thank you so much.
hi/ sorry about quality, if I could figure out how to send you a email or set as an attachment file I would. if someone could help in this area that would be great if you need more info please ask. if you would like info about the engine derates also please ask Regards Mark
Mark, you want to get hold of Adobe Acrobat Pro or whatever it's called these days. The software enables you to print direct from SIS to a pdf document (instead of a paper copy via a printer) that you can then email. Because I'm working from a tablet right now I don't have access to that facility.
use cutepdf its free
Thanks guys, I have both of them but I do not know how to attach the files in this forum to a member Thanks again mark (finally figured out how to multi quote ha ha )
What you have to do is send an HEF email or PM the member in question for their contact details then attach the pdf to an email. HEF emails don't allow attachments.
That happens to our loaders with the snow tires sometimes. As a rule the snow tires are softer. The L70 I run in winter went for her winter tires this year, and the tire shop couldn't get the bead to seat at all. They took the rims to the machine shop, and ran a bead of weld on the....bead. No flats at all so far. I have slipped a rock tire on the rim before, and ruined the o-ring. How many hours on your grader. I could see worn rims doing it.
Thanks Nige, that's the answer I was looking for, thanks again I just realized that the poor quality is with my conversion from pdf to image,I may need a better quality image converter. Mark
If you can get hold of Acrobat Pro you won't regret it. It allows you to cut, paste, edit, and otherwise bend, fold, & spindle the documents once you've produced them. It really is the Rolls Royce of the document converters.
Thanks that's fine I emailed a copy to work , I just enlarged it for better viewing, our mobile mech will be looking at it, he also installed a new pressure sensor today cheap fix 60 bucks, I ran the machine today no lights but it takes a couple of shifts for it to throw a code again then it acts up more frequent with the engine de rating with same code, I believe its in the harness seems like every time you move the harness problem stops for awhile, we will see. thanks so much
You could be very well right, there is a little over 8000 hrs on her now the tire are new NOT recaps we ordered new hard wear for the rims we will see what happens, thanks
for a bit of humor, I have my own tire work to do today...the 3.50/4.00-4 (yes, 10" tires) for my shop hand truck keep going flat. $13.57 worth of tubes are showing up today, so I am going to fix leaky tubeless tires for the hand truck with discount tubes from Amazon! And the word is THRIFTY and NOT cheap. Howard
You too? I just bought $12 worth of tubes for the 4/4.8-8's on my log arch. Next time it's getting bigger rubber.
Any one hear a squeek coming from Howard's direction? I've had good luck with stopping slow leaks on those little tubeless tires with that nasty "Slime". Good luck with those 10 inchers, those little ones can be more a struggle than a 22.5!
Oh, the slime worked for the last 10 years...now the tires are lifting off the bead after a few days of sitting. This hand truck was purchased in the early 90's and it is just good enough to keep in use... As for the logging arch, how do you get enough load capacity out of tires that small? I have seen guys build them out of 10.00-20 medium truck axle stubs and hubs. And it is tough to get my tire hammer on those little wheels, luckily I have some 6" tire irons that came with a motorcycle tire patch kit. Howard