I am looking at trailers again. Just wondering what you all think. I am looking for something to pull a 580l behind a 1 ton swr truck. It has to be a bumper pull trailer no 5th wheels for me. I am trying to decide tilt or ramps. The tilt trailers have the axles more centered meaning less weight on the truck but will it be too rear heavy and wag like a dogs tail going down the road? Also I have looked at tandem singles with 17.5 tires on 10k axles. Tandem Dulles on 10k axles with 16" rubber and also triple singles with! 16" rubber. What axle configuration would be best and also give the best breaking effect behind a pick up? I know all about the dot and you have to tag the truck heavy enough for the whole load and cell and on and on. I know this can be done and safley done at that so I am not here to debate them issues just what axle set up you would choose and why and tilt or ramps and why? I have pulled a 580 behind a 1 ton in the past on a tandem dully but that truck and trailer is long gone now and looking to put my d-max to good use. Thanks
it is all personal preference. I would go for the ramps in my opinion because with a tilt deck the axels are too far foreward. and the tri axle would be best for you i think becauseit will be another set of brakes like you said. a backhoe is a heck of a load for a pick up truck and you are going to want all the help you can get. also for the trailer with ramps make sure you have a jack on each side of the back of the trailer or block it up as best you can. i saw a 550 service truck take off backwards down a hill when the weight of the hoe got behind the trailer tires it lifted the back of the truck off the ground and luckily the hoe operator has quick reflexes or the whole rig would have went swimming
Having owned and pulled many of them, I can tell you, the last thing you want is a triaxle. They are much harder to turn, I have had them push the rear end of a road tractor sideways on slick pavement or in a panic steer. Now, don't get mad, but pulling a 580l with a pickup, particularly a SRW, is irresponsible and endangering the lives of innocent people. If anything goes wrong, like somebody pulling out in front of you to close to stop, where you have to steer around them, you don't have enough truck to control it. And, if one little brake wire gets broken, just give up and pick the cheapest thing to hit.
Just wondering why in your opinion is pulling a hoe behind a pickup "illresponable"? A 15000 lb load behind a pick up is no worse than lets say 60000 lb load be hind a semi tractor? Is it? I mean a crew cab d-max weights. 10000lbs a semi weights 25000 lbs so in my eyes a backhoe behind a pick up is just as safe as a large excavator behind a semi. Wouldn't you agree? I mean pound for pound the 580 is closer to the truck weight than say. A 330 cat on a semi?
Ok, to start with a light 580l will be 15-16,000 lbs, add 6-7,000 for a trailer, now you're pulling 21-23,000. (if your 580 has 4x4, 4-in-1 bucket, extendahoe, etc., add accordingly) Pulling this on a receiver hitch you have 2-3000 lbs tongue weight on the truck. Now your truck weighs 13,000 and is pulling 21,000. Put this same load and trailer behind a large truck, I'm going to take 10,000 lbs tongue load, now I have 26,000 pulling 13,000. With my road tractor and trailer grossing 80,000, my tractor weighs 16,000 empty, so my trailer and load weighs 64,000. I'm going to load it so my tractor weighs 50,000, pulling 30,000. The amount of weight that gets transferred is the difference in pulling with a pickup and a big truck. Weight gives you traction for braking and steering control, and if you have to panic steer around something, that 13,000 is going to follow my 26,000; is your 21,000 going to follow your 13,000, or push it?
Ok Mitch makes sense to me the way you put it with that math I figer I will get a lot of people saying the same thing. However I have done it in the past and fully intend to do it again. I feel from past experience that it is perfectly safe and I do know at least here in KS it is also legal as I have seen many people do it. Around here we have a lot of guys pulling tag trailers that range from 7 tons through 60 tons. I only have experience with a tandem dually with ramps and was just wondering if I should go to the same setup again or change it up a little. I do have to watch the tongue weight closely as my truck is already heavy with all the tools and such in the bed. Just really wondering on the triple axle vs tandem dual and tilt vs ramps. I am strongly leaning to either a tilt deck over tandem dual. Or the single with ramps. I just think a tri axle will spread the weight out better on the trailer or the tilt because the axles are almost centered. Which setup will provide the best breaking effects? And yes my 580 has almost all the optional equipment cab,xhoe, 4x4,clam shell
Like I said in my original post, triaxles are very hard to turn compared to dual tandem, I have had them push a large truck sideways, much less a pickup. As far as braking, a triaxle has 6 tires on the road, a dual tandem has 8. The brake shoes on a dual wheel trailer axle are usually about twice the size of a single.
Good luck, Mitch
I concur with Mitch completely. I have done it, but I do not like pulling a backhoe behind a pickup with gooseneck trailer, let alone a bumper hitch. That said, I have owned both a triaxle and tandem axle with duels, and much prefer the tandem axle for the reasons Mitch mentioned.
A DMAX weighs no where near 10k. Your going to be lucky to get to 7k. My old SRW 1 ton diesel weighed 7200 with an 8ft bed 4x4, and a crew cab. I think you need to go across some scales to get your weights right. IMO, your nuts. I have hauled 12k load on a GN behind a 1 ton and its all she wanted going up or coming down hills (17-18k total weight). It really worked that truck hard and hence the reason I sold it and upgraded to a International 4700 for my towing. Pulling atleast 20k off of the bumper of a 1 ton SRW truck is asking to get killed or kill somebody. Put your family in the car that pulled out in front of you and then tell me its "SAFE" to pull. Electric brakes don't work nearly as well as air brakes do. Also, just because someone else does it, does not infact mean it is legal to do. People speed all the time and its not legal for instance.
I agree with this guy^^^^^^ I wouldn't even pull a backhoe on a bumper pull behind one of our 550's.
Yes my truck weights 10112 lbs to be exact on a cat certified scale. As far as my comments about seeing others do it and it being legal. I meant around here it's a fairly common practice. I know of at least 5 other guys doing it. It has been a few years since I pulled my last trailer that's gone now and was scaled by the dot more than once. Never got an overload ticket. I called our local motor carrier office to check and make sure nothing changes. The officer told me "axles are axles and weight is weight." Just don't over load any one axle and your golden. Also Max axle weight for any single axle is 10000 lbs and tamdems are 34000 lbs and Max on any 1 tire is 5000 lbs. So I figure 3 7000 lb axles just put the hoe on far enough to say throw about 3000 lbs across the young to have enough tongue weight and I should be good to go. How ever no one here has really chimed in on a triple single or tandem dual. Well Mitch did and I am greatful for his opinion. I figered that most people would say not to do it. But the facts are I already own that truck and that hoe just need to figer out what trailer. Thanks to every one with there opinions and especially to the guys actually trying to help me figure out the best path to take.
2 12000lb. axles are much better than 3 7000 lb. axles for usability in my opinion. There may be more brakes with 3, but you will have bigger brakes with the duel wheel 12000lb. axles. The wear and tear caused by the torque when turning on a 3 axle trailer will cost in the long run. On semi trucks you are allowed 20000lb per axle if it is a single axle, and 34000 for a tandem in most states. In regard to the best path to take, I have to stand with the others; for your safety and those around you a bumper pull trailer hauling a backhoe is not an option in my opinion, regardless wether or not it is legal in your state. Good Luck!
Check out the size of the brake shoes on the 6 & 7k axles compared to the shoe size on the 10 & 12k axles. I think after you do some math on the braking area you will see the larger axles should provide better braking. As far as comparing the 17.5 singles to the 16 duals I'm split on that, but I would lean towards the duals. More rubber on the road for traction and generally a wider stance. What year is your duramax? One thing to consider when planing to pull a tag trailer with a pickup is the receiver. The older D-max's (07ish) came with receivers rated at 7500 lbs, which obliviously wouldn't be a great idea to hook 23k pounds too. Some of the aftermarket receivers and new pickups are rated somewhere around 15k with a weight distributing hitch. Ive never seen a pintle hook with a weight distribution setup. As far as legality goes, my math isn't working out the same as yours..... What is the GVW of your truck? I would assume your pickup is relatively new because at 10,100 pounds before the trailer you would be over the trucks GVW and axles rating. But when you add in your 3k of toung weight (which the receiver and pintle are not rated for) puts you at 13,100 on the truck. There isn't a SRW pickup in production with a GVW to cover that, actually only the late model duallys have gvw's that high. So I respectfully disagree with you on the leagal part. Dually pickup with a gooseneck, without 2k pounds of extra tools and gear in the back, sure legal. I personally agree with everyone else that its not a good idea, but it is potentially legal. Comparing a pickup grossing 35k is not comparable to a truck grossing 80k. The main difference in my opinion is a jake brake and air brakes. As someone that has piloted both, Ive found towards the bottom of long steep hills in the pickup you have a hot transmission, hot brakes and your fingers crossing you wont be forced to stop before the bottom. But in comparison, same hill in a peterbilt with a jake at over double the weight and I don't even need to use the brakes until the bottom.