Hey all, Have a 2004 Takeuchi TL150 powered by a 4 cylinder Turbo Charged Yanmar 4TNV106T-XTBL. I am not the first owner. Currently use it around my small farm for fence building, moving earth and other tasks. Some uniqueness to this setup... Intake heater, electric fuel priming and dummy lights only for engine instruments. I replaced all the fluids and filters after i bought it. The machine was always difficult to start, especially when cold.once it warmed up it would start immediately. Generally required a full charge to ensure starting when cold. Lots of black smoke when turning over. Lots of black smoke in general idleing and when under a load. After 100 hrs or so i noticed heavy oil consumption with exaust and oil discharge from the crankcase vent. I tore the engine down in place and discovered the number 1 and 4 oil rings were cracked. A lot of carbon on number 1 and 4 from hours of operation with blow by. I checked the pistons, lower bearings and cylinders for damage and excessive wear. All were within the specs per Yanmar. I flex honed, installed new rings with the older pistons and installed new lower bearings. I sent the head to the machine shop to get it cleaned and replace the valve seals. Machinest mentiones everything looked in order, but he did have to plane the head down a hair to square it up. I reassembled the machine, but did NOT pull apart the turbo, nor did i inspect it. Kicking myself (maybe). I ran it for a bit. Noticed no oil burn, leaking amd seemed to run great for about 50 or so hours. Until... It started to become difficult to start again. Lots of smoke during engine turn over. Lots of BLUE smoke when running and a ton of blue smoke under load. Noticed unburnt oil spitting out the exhaust. Crankcase vent is clean however; no smoke or oil. I have not yet taken the intake side of the turbo off yet. My question here is would a blown/malfunctioning turbo cause these symptoms? Is taking the intake side of the turbo off going to tell me anything? Thanks for the help! Matt
Removing turbo inlet will allow you to spin the impeller, and, check for axial and radial play in shaft. As my TL150s age, I find that they start better with a preheat and 1/8 throttle. I believe that's what is written in operator's manual. I don't recall the turbo being horribly difficult to remove, but, the injection pump, well, that's a PITA. When my pumps were worn out, they were hard to start when warm. Cold was always fairly easy. As an aside, I've had issue with debris in the fuel tank plugging the bottom tank outlet, and the elbow inlet at the water separator.
McCall, Thank you for the TL150isms. Its helpful to know issue prone areas on a machine. Agree, the turbo isnt too difficult to get off, just wanted to get some thoughts on the symptoms before I started pullin her down again. Yes, the manual mentions throttle setting for starting though it doesnt seem to make a diffence. I preheat as well. It really sounds like the engine is turning underload after a few revolutions. Could the turbo be bypassing oil into the intake during engine start? Requiring a lot of cranking before combustion then start? Obviously could be another issue on the fuel side? Air in the injector lines. There is fresh fuel at the water seperator and when ive taken the injector lines off fuel immdediatly shoots from then lines during turnover.
Have u TESTED the glow plugs.?? Just because the lite comes on, really doesn't mean they're working. Pull the hoses off the turbo & see if u can shake the shaft/wheel.. & look for obvious signs of oil.. Instead of pulling it down.. why not do a compression test.?? either thru the injector or the GP hole.. U did a partial inframe & didn't get the fuel system checked.. why.?? What do u think caused the rings to crack.?? I'm not saying the pump or injectors did it.. I'm asking what do u think caused it.??
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Yeah i scratched my head for a bit too when i checked amd realized it didnt have glow plugs. It has an intake heater. Fuel system: very good question. I dont know what cracked the rings. I was wondering if the turbo could do it? Explain your thoughts on the fuel system causing the upper issues in the engine. Im at a loss...
you reused the old pistons? if the piston skirts wore down, and the piston to cylinder clearance was too much, you'd get excessive piston movement, or slap. that could crack the rings.
And if the injectors weren't spraying properly, the fuel could of been spraying, not on the crown but more on the sides of the piston.. You wont know until u get them checked.. Could u see a definite spray pattern on the tops of the pistons.?? I'm not familiar w/ this engine & didn't know it has an intake heater.. u never said weather it works or not.. Can u post a pic of your engine.??
I did reuse the pistons. They were within the tolerences of the engine's rebuild manual.
Before and after cleaning of number 1 piston. It had a cracked oil ring and two cracked upper rings. Lots of carbon buikd up from burnt oil i suspect.... spray pattern from injectors appeared normal and similar with each injector, but i did not have them tested...
so you measured the piston diameter, and cylinder bore diameter?
Yanmar 106 dont really slap the pistons without smearing the skirt. Not sure if I have pics or not. Been a while. I had a 1600hr (2100 on machine) TL150 with a horrible engine knock come in. Ended up with #1and #2 skirts smeared up and down bore. No metal in oil sample or filter, no performance issues, compression test (dry) didn't reveal anything, injector still in it today (8k hours). Piston rings were unmolested. So, I'm pretty sure it's not sloppy pistons.
Yes sir. Measures all the ring gaps demensions as well (gaps) as well. The engine doesnt knock either. Smooth operation. Im not hearing a turbo whine either, but not sure if that is a characteristic of this motor.
McCall i tend to agree. My father in law works on diesel engine quite regularly and went thru the rebuild with me. He said the pistons amd bearings were in grest shape. I onviously matched the correct pisons and rods with the cylinder numbers. Read my below reply to skata regaurding tuebo whine. Do you think the carbon build up on number 1 piston is from oil burn? All the other pistons were a lot cleaner and only number four had a slightly cracked oil ring. Number ones rings were destroyed comparatively speaking. My question is still can oil being injected from a turbo cause the ring damage i prior to the rebuild amd also becausing my current symptoms post rebuild?
I have a question.. are u the only operator.?? is it possible someone "gave it a squirt" to get it started.?? I think you'll know more when the injectors get tested.. THEN u can move on to other components. Generally speaking, a turbo wont whine unless there is serious oil starvation to the bearings.. However, they will leak/seep oil past the oil ring for ANY NUMBER of reasons.. HOT shut-down being the main cause of bearing & oil ring failure. Simply grab the wheel's AT THE NUT & try to wiggle it up & down.. its THAT easy.. & look for oil in the ends.. The wheels shouldn't be tight but they shouldn't be loose either.. a couple thousands play if fine.. IF in doubt> get a new one or have it rebuilt..
I am the only operator and I know starter fluid is a no no on diesel. I will pull the intake side off tonight and check the turbo. I do have a local injector shop to get them checked. Easy enough to do both.
Turbo has tons of play ... lots. Touching the side. Notice oil coming from the ring clamp that holds the turbo to the exahaust. First pic is with the impeller free. The second is me pushing it all the way to the metal edge.
Tara! You found the issue. If all else fails, I get Yanmar parts from ContinentalEngines in South Carolina. I know a TB53FR radiator is almost 1/2 what Takeuchi wanted. And, Yanmar only offers std and 10 over pistons for a 4tnv106t.
Stupid autocorrect. Tada!!! Was the intended word. 123908-18010 turbo
Oil piping
Muffler gasket
Yeah it says RHF5 CMP in the manual but the ID plate shows IHI RHF5 CYDU? Couldnt find a CMP in the IHI product manual.
I think the CMP means CoMPlete?
Ahhh. Okay.
Pricey...
Doesn't TPG work on turbochargers also?
Who's TPG?
HeavyEquipmentForums
just checked ebay. would these turbos work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yanmar-Mar...0094-CYEF-NEW-OEM-IHI-RHF5-Turbo/153343624864 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OEM-IH...al-4TNV106T-Engine-VC430094-CYEF/173746765514
Good info heymccall.. IF a center section {chra} is available it'll be a lot cheaper.. The part # is on the turbo.. it comes complete all u do is swap over your housings. JUST BECAUSE u found a bad turbo..keep going.. injectors & pump are next. U might be better off getting a reman engine w/ all those components already good to go.??
Gents, Its a CYDU. Ordered last night. The cheapest rebuilt engine i've seen thus far is $10k. I'm not sure what to do once i pull the injector pump? Is there a way to test the pump without tearing half the engine down?
U have to send it off to a fuel shop.. & even then u have to MAKE SURE they can/are authorized to do it.. NOT every shop is the same.. some don't have the equipment to test that pump.. its special.. Call/email around & ask if they rebuild Yanmar "MP" pumps.. & have the # off the tag on the pump.. BE CAREFUL, its on a "stick on" tag & possibly painted over.. IF IT IS painted, leave it alone.. The engine must be timed before u pull the pump.. otherwise you'll be firing the pump on #3 when the engine is on #1.. but u probably know that from previously doing the engine. Your "supposed to" leave the timing hub connected to the drive gear & take the pump off.. {center nut} The timing hub is KEYED & the pump is keyed.. so u can only put it on 1 way, if u do it THAT WAY.
Arent u tearing the engine down anyway.?? All u have to do is remove the plate infront of the pump to access the drive.. 1 nut.. Then its the 3 bolts holding the pump flange to the block. & no thank you, I want no parts of this..
I have a 4TNV manual if u need it.. its just a click away. Need ur email tho.. u can prvt msg me.
TPG, you want no part of it because it is a MP pump? I've got a lot of customers out there with them, one is bound to let go sooner or later, I know you don't like them but kind of want to have a plan of action for when one does go out. Just get a reman unit maybe, or send it to you anyway?
Wasnt plannning on tearing the entire engine down just yet as i put it back together a few months ago. Trying to determine if oil injestion from the turbo is causing the symptoms i described in the first post? The symtoms now are different from those when rebuilt the top half. Crankcase vent is now running clean, no oil or smoke. Exhaust smoke is now blue vice black with oil spray in the exhaust (didnt have oil in the exhaust prior to the rebuild it popped up about 50 hrs post rebuild) and some coming out of the turbo compressor which leads to intake manifold. Can oil injestion cause blue smoke (especially under load), oil splatter in exhaust and difficulty starting? I know the turbo is bad, id like to start there and recheck engine then move on from there if i have to...
Got one on hand. Thank you.
Good places to look in the event i need a pump?
I got my injection pumps at Gateway Diesel here in New Kensington. They ordered them in. You're overthinking this... unless you have hot starting issues (you said runs even), I'd just have injectors tested and put another turbo on it.
Okay. I do have difficulty starting. Crank and crank with lots of blue smoke during turnover. Its almost as if im purging the cyclinders of oil/fuel before it will start. It will generally fire up after a couple of revolutions run for 1-2 seconds then die. Ill crank and crank with preheat and finally it will start and run smoothly. Intake heater is working.
Thank for the Gateway Diesel contact.
Yeah, all those symptoms are a bad turbo.. Blue smoke & splatter.. It doesn't hardly cost anything but time to get the injectors tested unless ofcourse they're bad.. I'm AWSOME at MP pumps.. I just don't like the scenario that's unfolding here.. & in all actuality, out of the 30 or so MP pumps I'v done.. it was cheaper to get 1 than to fix the customers. U know how it goes> the last one that touched it gets the blame/has to pay.. & it aint gonna be me 6 months from now .. sorry.
Completely understand. I got a rough estimate to rebuild the pump ~1,200. Looks like an OEM rebuild runs 1500 with core charge refund. Probably better off going with the OEM already rebuilt as the qoute was just that.. a qoute for estimated labor and parts. Turbo arrives mid next week. Ill get the old one out and let to yall know the results with the new turbo installed. Thanks again for the time.
Oh, and when, not if, the hydraulic pump falls off, drill and upsize the flywheel cover to 1/2- 13 and use 12point headed bolts. And change the engine mount rubbers. The mounts cause the pump to bounce too much. And the pump casting holes were intended for 1/2 hardware, not M12 I did one to M14, but had to stay with Allen headed bolts. 12pt heads work best.
God that sounds fun! Cant wait!
If you're running in dusty conditions, this precleaner is mandatory. I used to brick the air filter in less than 200hrs. Left unchecked, a TL150 will suck dirt past the elements in less than 500 hours (that goes with the engine I referenced earlier in the thread).
On parts, looking back, I got my 106 internals from McDonaldEquipment (MECO) in Ohio.
Oil from compressor to intake manifold. Yikes!
I'd say u def. found a problem..
New turbo is here. Got the exhaust section of the old one. The turbine wheel is moving almost freely and is caked with oil-exhaust residue.
Holy Smokes.!!! {pun intended}
Put'r back together. Started up. Smoke on start. Probably to be expected as the oil from the old turbo was still down inside the intake manifold (cylinders). Its idled for 10 minutes and now no smoke and no oil splater in the exhaust. Ill give yall an update after i break the turbo in...
Slow down there dragon.. There is no "turbo break-in".. All ya gotta remember is>> NO HOT SHUT-DOWNS.. Let it idle for 3 minutes before turning that key.. I hope u lubed it before starting .??
I followed the break-in instructions that were included with the turbo. I'm a gentlemen of course I oiled the turbo.
Did you figure out your hard starting problem? I've burt up 2 starter solinoids now. I bought the machine back in October and literally everytime I fix somthing another problem comes up within 2hrs of fixing the first one.
Curtis, now that ive ran the new turbo a bit. Its starting right up. Must have all the oil from the turbo going into intake.
Mine runs perfect, no smoke, it's just hard to start and smokes while turning it over. I'm going to check the turbo asap. How much was it for your new turbo?
Yeah that sounds exactly like what mine was doing. Gotta crank crank cranks. Lots of blue smoke while turning over. Obviously it was getting diesel and my intake heater was working. Had to be all that oil. My turbo was around $800 shipped. Let me know if you need the exact model. There were very few of them that i could find online. Two choices on ebay. Im sure it was at least a grand cheaper than the friggen dealer turbo.
Turbo had a bit of play, no excessive oil. I dont feel like that's my problem. I am thinking low compression, but I hate to think that.
so there's no glow plugs on this engine? how could you even compression test it? have you tried starting fluid? how does the engine react to that?
No glow plugs. You have to test compression in the injectors ports. Starting fluid will start it quickly. I can spray it and usually hits a few times without actually starting, about the 3rd or 4th revolution it will fire up, blow tons of grayish black smoke for less than a second and clean up perfect.