2014 Western Star, has DD13 in it twin to the unit I drive just one year Older. Engine would not crank so mekaniks at shop get it running and into shop as was COLD out, Starter bad. Swapped starter, still no crank, begin troubleshooting anew, no power at start terminal of starter so OBVIOUSLY a "bad Wire" or bad Ign Switch, had a switch changed and no change. Pulled a few harness loose checking pins for corrosion or wires for breaks, NADA. Finally figure they are out of their league and call the Frt Lnr/Star dealer who sends out a Tech. Reconnect EVERYTHING put on diagnostics computer and looks to Mekaniks, needs a PCM. Finds the one in the truck that directs the communications from the Engine ECM to the Truck Cab CCM and the other Control Modules, installed a "TEST" Module, started right up. Removed said module reinstalled old one, NO Start. Bad Module. This was two weeks ago and SUPPOSEDLY this PCM interacts with the ECM, a Cab Module, a Climate Control Module, Suspension Module(Lift Axles) and Brakes ABS Module. Next point becomes infinitely less then humorous, NO Modules in stock, placed on Six Week Availability schedule, HOWEVER, SHOULD a truck under Warranty come in and need same module as the replacement arrives then the six week clock resets and the wait begins anew. MIRACULOUSLY the module arrived as was notified by parts department, hour later, it was GONE to a warranty job, Six Weeks out again.
Well, that sucks. Things are sure going to hell everywhere
"Complicated" isn't the word I'd have chosen, "Unbelievable" seems more fitting!! I think I'd be sitting at the dealer when their UPS arrives!!
I love it things just going to hell in a hand basket! I think some on here scoffed when I posted parts problems a year ago. It's been this way for a while, and not going to change anytime soon.
I'd be telling dealer parts will be bought elsewhere if you cannot guarantee you'll get the next one that they get. I won't hesitate now to order parts from a out of town dealer instead of going to local one if their service is ****. I'd rather spend more time and money buying parts from a place that actually cares about service.
But reality is DM that truck has a bunch of junk related to items not needed in a dump truck Climate control? Suspension module? Power windows? We've had the PCM take a dump on several of ours. But because of multiplex wiring and Sam modules controlling all this junk that we don't need but buy anyway because we are told we need it to keep the driver comfy.
It's not the way corporate works, dealers have to follow corporate on warranty.
DM I feel your pain. We can't get RCP (reinforced concrete pipe) produced in AL for at least 6 months. It's thrown my local industry upside down to say the least.
I tried to order a few yards of concrete this morning for a late afternoon pour. First supplier (national company) was shutting the plant down at lunch because he had on drivers to staff the afternoon. Core group of drivers were knocked off at lunch for an early Sat morn pour. Second supplier (regional outfit...maybe 20 batch plants) didn't have any cement to batch a pour with. I said what do you mean you don't have any cement; he said they were on allocation and had a truck parked at the cement terminal in the hopes they get allocated a load today. He was also a no go for Monday, unless they get lucky. He claimed there were 50 trucks at the terminal waiting to be loaded. I heard Oldcastle (at least in Georgia) wasn't taking any more orders for 2022. Tried to order some CMP and was told they weren't accepting new customers. Jeez.
Never heard of that, it seems like a really stupid policy, regardless if a dealer wants to help someone out they could make it happen, have to ask my buddy who's a foreman at Freightliner dealer if that's how it works there. Although WS dealer here is absolute trash I know they would do things like that and will hide things in paperwork like buying a truck but you're buying the dump box already on the truck directly from the suppler, not from WS, I wouldn't trust them to grease my bicycle chain.
Pretty sad actually, boss is angry of it and called his salesman, explained the next two ordered will be cancelled if this does not change. The next two are the replacements for these two WS’s and have as yet not been completed at factory. He buys Pete’s and is having less issues there yet Cummins is getting more picky as to small fleets performing any warranty repairs at all while the closest dealer is 45 miles away. He can buy two Pete quads tomorrow sitting on that dealer’s lot as the machines are X series Cummins the aero cab conventional cab model with automatics not stick transmissions and GVWR is lower than the Stars. He just is holding off for what he wants spec wise. KW here has zip in stock and no idea as to when can make a delivery. Markets are changing rapidly in trucks, are many small Shops as this looking to cease operating as getting too hard. As to concrete, mix companies we deliver to have had shingles out for several years, Drivers Needed, current pay rate is $26/hr to start at all of them. Big companies in STL are paying end dump operators in median haul routes $.61/mile or $24/hour distance halls are across the board and still no takers. The Frtlnr dealer here is the Star dealer, cannot get techs to sign on, old hands are sticking around as are getting $35+/hour tooling bonus’s additional percs and yet are still slipping to retirements. The lot at all the dealers are loaded with warranty work as **** is what rules the road today and the manufacturers are getting stingy with warranty pay outs as their profits slide pushing these marvels of rolling crap. The Star I drive has a rather nasty glitch, below 30F after start the machine the gauges go back to sleep. First out are tach/speedo, next all the engine indications left side dash followed by all the chassis indications right side. No Air or oil or fuel or alternator. Shut it off for fifteen minutes sometimes will come back, others require battery cables off for count of twenty. And at those conditions the gauges will still roll in and out as want to. Last straw for me is lift axles, lead axle has kingpin play, has bushing play beyond realistic in trailing arms, mekaniks tried to order parts but Star cannot seem to identify the axles by chassis number The WS COMPANY installed to get right parts. The dampening shocks are junk where on the wrong bump or severe enough road crown that axle will start oscillating HARD, only way have been able to stop is to jam on brakes as just tripping lift has been found useless as will not dump air while it does this. Again the boss is not amused where is trying on his own to get the stuff to fix it, also unsuccessfully.
Warranty-Warranty is paid for when buying new vehicle, extended warranty is also paid for. It's a contract. Dealers can get into hot water under those conditions when not honoring warranty. If you walk into a parts department and order a specific part that is on back order and the dealer all ready has one setting on the lot waiting for that very part that rig is going to get it. The parts department screwed up, never should have called that part was in-knowing full well they had one under warranty setting/waiting for the same thing. I have already been down this road with the boss. He thinks because he owns all these Freightliners that he should get preference over the parts and preference on getting repair done. No BOSS it's first come first served. That's the fair way to handle it. There are trucks setting all over the U.S. waiting on parts that are under warranty, many waiting for the same parts. Even if the dealer initiates a critical order to pull one off the assembly line there is only a 50/50 chance you will receive it. I deal with this daily, I have been managing shops, buying parts for years. I have been dealing with this scenario for over a year. Try taking care of a FLEET of tractors and trailers that I deal with. I'm not messing with five or ten dump trucks, Hell I wish that's all I had. I have to buy just the standard run of the mill parts with enough inventory to carry me 6 to 7 months in advance. A simple 30-00471-20 air filter for a Carrier Refrigeration unit has been on back order for 9 months. I have to buy where ever what ever brand I can get a few at a time. If a dealer shows six in stock of lets say a Baldwin brand, that dealer will only let go of three. Not one person on here is going to enlighten me with their wisdom of running a shop or ordering parts.
I agree TS, it is not gonna get any better any time soon, this is just that iceberg starting to roll and show how really HUGE it is that was hidden. Small shops as the one I run out of I suspect are doomed, too specialized as to product hauled and areas served where will end up with a fleet of broken awaiting parts that will not arrive soon enough to save the customer lines.
Anyone who ever watched MASH! That's kind of what this is {this we can save, this one we can't for now}. I run a MASH unit for trucks and I'm Hawkeye. It's that way everywhere.
That ‘just in time’ philosophy of parts production supply and inventory has really come home to bite everyone in the ass all across the board no matter what business you’re in. It’s been brewing for years ever since the first bean counter hatched the idea to make his company’s bottom line better.
I remember complaining in the mid 1990s that JIT was going to be a problem but it took 25 years for the chickens to come home to roost. I ran my own business on JIT until we had fires and public safety power shutdowns out here which gave us an early wake up call as to supply chain issues. So we were already used to pre ordering before the TP fiasco became a big thing. Still there are certain filters I can't get or have to substitute. My local NAPA is very good and resourceful, many intelligent people have been there for decades.
Warranties are a funny thing that is full of profit in normal times. These are not normal times! Normal times have warranties being the exclusive realm of the manufacturer. The dealer is only a caretaker who does the initial inspection, research and interpretation and submits that info to the factory for final judgement. In the late aughts and teens the warranties were so lucrative that the dealers sold a warranty package that wasn't with the manufacturer. The dealership administered the programs and took on the risks of the extended warranties. I've heard of customers who thought they signed paperwork for an extended factory warranty only to find out the dealership kept that money and now wants to fight any claims against it. In my opinion an extended warranty is an insurance policy and should be regulated under state insurance rules. I might try to bring that up with the insurance commissioner next time I hear of the problem.
Absolutely it should not be in front of a truck already at the dealer waiting for a part, but it should be next in line, not behind another truck that might come in a month later and continually pushed back, that is the BS part. Dealer gives preferential treatment here, there is construction company with around 50 freightliners and the dealer caters to them huge, buddy hates it but told from higher up's they get it because of how many trucks they buy. I can't think of any dealer that doesn't give preferential treatment around here and most openly admit it. The John Deere dealer admitted it when trying to regain business from smaller guys like me realizing their mistake for ignoring them for years. I don't necessarily blame them, if someone owns 100 trucks and turns them over every 4-5 years they absolutely should have priority on things compared to someone with one. To what extent the special treatment should be is the question.
The part that confuses me is why some have plenty of stock and others don't. It's seem to be only the truck side of things with nothing in stock. I have yet to experience any issue getting Volvo equipment or John Deere parts, if it's not in stock it's brought in next day for pennies. It does cost money not having stock if someone else does though, I will not wait if I can drive a few minutes and get the part right then.
95% of the time the inventory order for 8 shows in that amount of time, taking the pressure off.
If you had Radar he could trade your old broken BBQ and some tins of beef for the parts you need lol.
I run into it hit and miss. Thankfully most of our stuff is older so we miss the modern warranty related issues. Weird stuff like oil, 1R1808 Cat oil filters etc have a delay. Did have to wait several months for IMT articulation joint parts. When I order stuff now I double what I need when I can get my hands on them. We’re gonna use it.
I'm curious, is this just ebb and flow as in happened in the past this way on getting parts or this is new and this is a sign that we are headed down a rabbit hole? I'm not that old and haven't been around on this blue marble that long as most of you, so I don't know. Was the Carter days like this with whole oil embargo?
There are so many contributing factors to this going back years, this wasn't just caused in the last two and a half years. The public has been lulled/sold into thinking they need these innovations with the sales pitch {It's a improvement that will help change your life for the better}. The only lives changed for the better are the bean counters and CEO's of corporations. I know this is low hanging fruit-But does anyone really need power door locks, power windows, climate control, power mirrors, rear camera for backing up, heated seats, heated steering wheel, video capabilities, surround sound, all wheel drive {most front wheel drive cars do very well}, 350 plus hp and up, auto transmissions with more than 5 speeds, cars that park themselves, a tail gate that folds into a step-work bench and missal launching pad. All of that crap listed above creates a over designed wiring, fuse, relay and control module nightmare. The only ones really benefiting from it is the manufactures. But this stuff was created with little to no support in the long term. There is absolutely no reason to manufacture a truck with air disc brakes except to create massive parts sales, but with just in time delivery dealers in many cases got use to running low inventories {the standard reply became-be here tomorrow by 10:00 am}. Years back every little parts house across America had on the shelf at all times {piston/ring sets, camshafts/lifters, complete gasket sets} with the advent of the $55,000 dollar throw away car that disappeared. Along with many people capable of doing their own work. There is nothing wrong with electronic fuel injection or common rail for diesels. But when manufactures design bogus features like Detroit and one example is the computer controlled water pump with a magnetic clutch to reduce parasitic power loss {bogus-has made zero change in fuel mileage} then cannot supply the futuristic piece of crap for the last 4 years {constantly on back order} and charge a $1,100 for it--It's time for the consumer to tell manufactures--{I'm mad as Hell and I'm not going to Buy it anymore}.
There’s another P/N (2P-4005.?) that can be used as a replacement. Some deal about 1R-1808 being for industrial (or non-machine) engines and the other Part Number being for machine engines. The manufacturing process is apparently different but the filter media and the thread size is the same. I just looked it up. You can use a 244-4484 (12 micron) element or 275-2604 (22 micron) or 272-1788 (35 micron). All those numbers are the latest version of the venerable 2P-4005. Our choice was generally the 275-2604 on mobile equipment.
Around where I used to live, about 30 years ago the local JD ag dealer decided to cut back on parts inventory and started to charge ‘freight’ on daily parts orders from the closest Deere distribution centre. Up until then, they did not add the freight cost to a daily order. You could save the extra freight cost if they added your order to their weekly stock order but if you needed the part asap then you paid the extra cost. Within a couple years, all the other ag dealers in town were doing it too sometimes the extra freight cost was not proportional to the size of the part and was split among the other daily order freight cost
You sir have won the internet, couldn’t be said anymore true. I was just curious if this has happened in the past or we really are going down a hole that we never been down? The sudden stop of allowing people to legally own petrol vehicles in states is going to exasperate the situation worse. I understand the whole climate thing they are pushing for, out of sight out of mind by pushing for electrification, but damn it’s more wasteful to ditch a perfectly good running bare bones vehicle to scrounge up resources for all that you listed for a new car. I can’t do new vehicles, my airways close up with whatever they use to make them and same with used vehicles that are under 15 yrs old. Wife inherited her moms car it’s 07’, I can’t ride in it especially on warm days or if it gets warm in it. So just think what these new and close to new vehicles are doing to your health in that regards.
I could not agree more! I would love to be able to buy say a new 1980 Ford F100/150 short bed with a 300 in-line six and a three speed automatic. Rubber floor mats and nice quality cloth seats. AC would be nice but not critical. Wife has a I think two year old Nissan Rouge and I don't think she really knows how most things work or if she really uses half of the do-dads. I've only drove it a couple times and there are so many buttons on the steering wheel I'm almost afraid to touch them.
LOL I'll keep all the comforts of the modern pickup truck. Not pining nostalgic on a vinyl bench seat, 4 speed manual, AM radio and no A/C. Spent enough time riding and driving in those trucks.
I agree-but they leave no options. I have a 2006 Ford Ranger 4x4 auto. No extra power equipment. It's comfortable, quiet, drives nice. bought it for $6,000 cash with 55,000 on it-zero problems. It has 125,000 on it now still runs the same as when I bought it. After 2006 model year Ford changed to standardized electronic gadgets, 2007 to the last year 2011 were problematic.
The logistics problem stems from just in time manufacturing one truck delivery could supply a weeks worth of parts in the stock order and carry days now it takes airplanes and 5 truck delivery the other end of it is everyone is over buying right now cause no one knows if you can get it myself included Now everyone is putting an inventory buffer in there operation for consumables I know a lot of plumbers last year bought pipe before the next increase and sat on it to use as needed one bought almost a years worth of PVC pipe if only a small percentage of companies do this there are huge ramifications and it's not a small percentage of companies The other thing that really burns the parts situation is year over year updates so some parts were on used for 6 months of production and those tend to be problem parts I am young so the closest mess I can remember to this is internationals max force debacle and the lesser talked about cat truck both those are a prime example of things manufacturers paid dearly for in reputation
I bought a new F350 last April replacing my 2011 F350, both gas engines. This new truck has automatic everything and Ford has attempted to make it idiot proof with all the computer control. A Ford tech told me there are between 20 and 30 processors on it depending on the options. I got the XLT, a little nicer than base model but not full blown fancy. I've been having a hard time adjusting to it with all the computer control and really wish I could have bought a new 2011. I always put additional equipment and lighting on my trucks to make my work easier and this one has been very difficult. I haven't been able to locate an ignition switched power source for my snowplow without triggering tilt alarms in the electronics. Until I talk with someone who knows I've had to rig up a plug on the battery and pop the hood and plug it in every time I want to run the plow, then remember to unplug it when I'm finished to avoid killing the battery. I like some of the conveniences but I could do without my truck trying to override my driving inputs. It's only going to get worse
Built in money makers designs that create huge profits for manufactures like Freightliner. 2019 and up Cascadia--Fog lamps $201.33 fill full of water mainly left side, I've replaced 18 last three months. 2019 and up Cascadia--Headlights $778,27 top brow marker burns out non replaceable have to replace complete unit. Replaced 13 in last 4 months. 2019 and up Cascadia--Electronic water pump, only runs full tilt on hills. $1,100 Replaced 5 in last 4 months. 2020 and up Cascadia--Lane change avoidance camera mounted at top of windshield/takes special windshield with pre mounted camera bracket. $750.00 replaced 8 in last three months. Standard glass $350.00. That's just four items out of many. The left side fog light-I bought the last available in three states, one left. Headlights I keep four in stock because of shortages. The water pump I keep two in stock because of shortages. The glass-sometimes the trucks have to run with cracked windshields because none is in stock oem or aftermarket. Now does the Cascadia need all these standardized features----No. It's a major profit zone to double the money made off the original sale. Problem-it was bought hook line and sinker as a benefit to driver comfort and better fuel mileage, the same sales pitch for the last 100 years. The companies who bought this crap are squealing like a pig. But they have no one to blame but their own bad business decisions. Now all those items I listed above are passed on to the grocery store. In the end you get to help pay for it. Freight rates right now with the price of fuel and parts/repair overhead-West to East 43,000lb net load of processed french fry's--$14 to $16,000 bucks. So when you go to the store, just remember the truck that delivered the load has X amount of worthless garbage designed into it that is causing/adding to inflation all because of greed and designs that eat profits in this business. Someone is going to pay and it's you.
If you listen to the greenies, they tell everyone just how great the just in time "lean" delivery system is working. They are quick to point out that there are now few obsolete manufactured parts getting tossed out. They can't see beyond their nose to see all the prematurely junked vehicles and machinery setting around for lack of repair parts. It's going to get worse before it gets better. No doubt about that.
To make you happy old-iron-habit I know a wheat farmer that still stands by his D6's-won't own a rubber band machine.
Ford used to be able to get you an upfitter guide that might have an ign. source. But failing that, there is a device called a Charge Guard that we have been using since the early teens, when Dodges would fail to start if you had tapped a tiny relay off the ignition fuse. The Charge Guard senses if the battery is 14 volts and turns on its output since it knows the engine is running. And shuts itself down with a programmable delay when the batt voltage gets to resting level since it knows the engine is off. Another plus is if the alternator breaks en route the accessories will shut down to save battery so you can get home before dead.
How many do you want? I can send you however many LF691A you want, and I'll pay the freight. $20 per filter. That's $15 cheaper than that Cat one with 48 cans worth of aluminum in it. And before ANYONE has **** to say about a Fleetguard LF691A not being as good as a CATERPILLAR 1R-1808, I have a 3196 that has had a 691A for 5000 hours, and all oil samples are as good today as they were the first time I tested it.
Power windows door locks have been in vehicles nearly what 30 years? The systems should be so bulletproof it's not even funny the problem is they keep changing little stupid parts, and it would make everyone's lives easier if they would keep many of the components the same but that wouldn't make them as much money. I don't want any of the driver assistance garbage but the comforts are nice. Buying my moms Ram 3500 Limited with every single option and in some ways i've missed things like heated seats, nav, backup camera, etc. Needed no? But it's kind of nice. Been driving a 09 ram and 2011 ram the last 2 years and while they are fine, other stuff sure doesn't hurt to have.
Run all Fleetguard, never had an issue. Although some seem to think running Fleetguard on a Cat motor will blow it up
*************The filter media isn't the same as an OEM filter***************
****************The filter made for an OEM as a branded filter doesn't have the same micron rating as the makers house filter***************
Dahm you guys get stuff cheap there, last one I bought was $27 and that was in 2019 I bet it's like $40 at least now.
I need to blame Cat then! Because their oil analysis came back incredibly good.
My order came in yesterday. $10.06 per filter on sale. I got 24 of them for what Cat wanted for 7. Same thing goes for the filters for our CaseIH equipment. HF6555 are $30 from my filter guy, $58 from CNH. HF35305 are $52 from my filter guy, $130 from CNH.
I like it when I post the costs of worthless crap people buy in their vehicles. It makes the me me crowd of capitalist get quite. Plus A Cat engine isn't so supreme that it only requires or should have Cat filters. If that were the case it would be more of a delicate {dandy lion} than the tough kitty cat people say it is.
People like extravagant crap to own and extravagant lifestyle. Even if they can or cannot afford it.
We had 29 Freightliner Coronado's, every drivers side power window regulator was changed at least once, some three times. Passenger side window regulator the same to the tune of $170.00 each time Plus 1.5 hrs. Cascadia I've had to replace 10 so far out of 62 trucks $210 same labor. Window switches I buy 6 at a time. Already had a T990 with 54,000 on it have a widow motor fail, that was covered under warranty, but the truck was tied up for 4 hrs. It doesn't mater though anybody who eats french fry's got to pay for it one way or another. Just pass the inflation along it's the american way.
Is that just crappy parts and build quality or driver abuse? Either way it's a sad indictment on us as to where we are as a society today.
Two fold--Designed with too small of electric motor for the weight of glass and friction in window channels, if operated with engine running charging system at 14 plus volts instead of engine off with static charge of 12.5 the window regulators would last longer in some cases. Big problem was getting drivers to stop running windows up and down without engine running. Usually it took one time of window stuck half way down in cold weather or a rain storm and lesson learned, others three times. But this also caused unnecessary fuel use and starter wear. But I already addressed this above-with lousy designs and huge parts sales by manufactures.
So how much you want for that Ranger? Double the miles so half the price?
I will keep it to the end.
Sorry but the only way you will catch me give up my power passenger side window is with AC. Its hot as hell out so i need the windows down and when i go into the pit you can bet i am gonna put the windows up so my truck does not fill with dust. Some people call me a princess.
A/C is fine that's been around since early 60's. Entertainment centers that's another story. A passenger side power window is understandable-preferably air powered. One moto mirror passenger side that's ok. But the rest of it is hog wash.
When I drove for a living I never rolled the windows down. Heat in the winter, AC above 60F. If the AC broke I would fix it. I did not want the dust in the cab or the wind blowing papers around and messing up my hair. Or the noise.
We pulled the power passenger window just a while back in one of my ford 9000's . Orielly's had a window crank that fit it. I got long enough arms to reach it, if I'm sitting still, its kind of a trick while rolling.
I rolled the windows down to clear the BO.
It's those dam parts guys, I'm telling you! It's a conspiracy
Don't bring your personal hang ups into a perfectly reasonable complaint on the state of the world today. Haven't you covered this in counseling?
There's enough stink to go around for everybody.
Boss is really getting frustrated of FRTLNR and their sister or associate companies. He is approaching 70 where has decided will retire then as will his wife leaving the business to his Son and a Brother, I will be taking my leave as of that day. Bought hood hinge pieces as Salt had destroyed much of them if corrosion had not damaged beyond use for the W900, close to a grand for the two sides. Parts are out of a Reasonable range now and climbing, where it stops I suspect will be as trucks get parked.
Sounds like fertile ground is being planted for class action lawsuits.... Only the Lawyers will make out from this.
Why does a power window or a fm radio or a heater control or a taillight or a have to be controlled by a computer? It's a switch , a motor and a power wire. Why do you need a computer in the middle? When a guy pulls up next to me and tells me I got a taillight out, I don't need a computer on the dash to tell me. Antifreeze a little low in overflow and truck completely shut down idling on roadside. Can't move until all the little control modules say we're happy , lets go. Ridiculous . Desk jockeys should try running this junk in the mud and salt and snow .
The contractor that does the Clay Pit Excavation at the Bigger Pit got tired of Deere's explanations and avoidance games, sold EVERYTHING with a JD Name Tag, has now purchased four and going to add four more Cat(Do NOT know series yet) twin engine Belly Pans, newest is fifteen years old, HAD ACERT engines in it, no longer. NO Emissions Systems to flare or foul or cost exorbitant downtime for a Filter or Sensor. He had these years ago where was told the Articulated Tractors and drag pans were the Bee's Knees, he begs to disagree now. Cat here stated have full parts availability still for the ones he bought.