have a case 1845 for years wanting to get more horsepower 80-90. am considering used machines 2010 and older and under 1200 hours hopefully. would like opinions on top five choices thanks
Takeuchi TL 140/TL 240 would be good machines to look at, of course if you already had a Case and were happy with them you could look at like a 440CT.
We have a Bobcat T770. They came out in 2011. If you're stuck on a 2010 model, I would go for a Cat 299C.
John Deere CT 332. Very powerful machine, very stable, great visibility. So far pretty reliable, I've brought it form 2000 to 3000 hours in the last year. Expect to change a drive motor every once and a while. ~5000$ I changed one at 2000 hours. Since then I made the mistake of bringing 1 inch gravel to my site. That stuff gets in between the drive motor and the frame and just gets crushed! It pains me to hear my motor crushing gravel, but the motor took it no problem for weeks. I am very impressed. Also these machines are cheap used for some reason. I spent 22k for a 2007 from the dealer. Maybe I haven't discovered that reason yet. But it is a very strong machine, and I am happy.
TK, Kubota, Case, The biggest issue with the JD's do seem to be the drive motors. They just don't last. Reason why they're so "cheap" used is because they don't make big hours w/o major repairs/maint. which are a small fortune...........
I'll be looking to replace a T250 in the next year or so and won't be going with Bobcat for dealer and parts support issues. The T250 has been a good machine, had a few of them but can't wait on a part for 3 days while the machine is down. The three I would consider is Cat, Tak and Kubota. Locally the Kubota dealer is a very small operation compared to the Cat and Tak dealer and that gives me some concern for product support and parts availability. Have not run any of these brands newer machines so when it comes time to purchase it will be a demo bonanza.
With ctl's you really need to consider parts and service availability. Especially if you are buying used. They are all very capable machines in the right hands. They can also destroy themselves in the wrong hands. They all will break down, a good dealer can make a huge difference in how you fare with a machine. I have 3 Bobcats now (2 770's, 1 870) and have had decent luck with them. Main thing is I have a great dealer within 15 minutes that has the service and parts thing figured out. The T-300 and 320's were solid machines as long as final drive oil was changed religiously. The Taks have always been solid, seems like any vintage of those were solid.
We bought a 770 last winter. Really am enjoying the machine. Any advice what to keep an eye on? Only thing I kind of wonder about is the number of moving parts in regards to the floating bottom rollers. Does it need to be kept clean? How many hours have you put on one? How tight do the pins and bushings in the loader stay?
Shimmy, We are putting 800 to 1000 hours per year on them. I am using the lease program and rolling them every 3 years to keep them under warranty. I couldn't beat the depreciation putting that many hours on them with the straight purchase. Bobcat has unlimited hours on the lease. The use is varied from the tiling crew to the dirt crew. I have never had any undercarriage problems at all, and they are in the mud a lot. I have had a couple of drive motors replaced, always past 2000 hours. I had a controller for the regen system burn up, that was a $5000 part, why I won't own tier 4 ctl's out of warranty. The pins and bushings will hold out if you grease religiously. We do it every tank of fuel, which can be quite often depending on application. Overall good machines, we use them as dozers and have lots of attachments, so they get worked pretty hard.
I think that the cost of keeping these machines under warranty needs to just be factored into the purchase of the machine. If you plan on keeping the machine for 5 years and it costs 8K to maintain a bumper to bumper warranty on it than you just factor that into the purchase of the machine. It sucks to have to do that but all that technology that makes these latest generations of CTLS and high end SSL so productive has no limit on what it can cost to maintain them. The costs of can quickly get out of hand, makes it difficult to plan for maintenance costs when a simple controller can cost $5k for example. At least you know that, for the most part, you have fixed maintenance cost while the machine is covered under warranty.
I have owned every brand out there at one time or another. The most important aspect of a purchase such as this would be strong dealer support after the sale. We run only CAT equipment now after a few decades with Bobcat. The CAT dealer appreciates my business and takes amazing care of us all year long. We get parts delivered to our shop within 24 hours of ordering and they do what they say and say what they do...If I had pick the top three CTL's I would have to say , CAT, Kubota and TAK...we put a couple thousand hours on per season per machine and CAT reliability is hard to beat in my humble opinion. We run the 299 XHP and 289D in the CTL line plus a bunch of bigger CAT iron...good luck, demo before you buy and go with a dealer that can and will support your needs after the sale...
I couldn't agree more with PAFARMER. CAT's strong parts/customer service is what we needed. Our 299 is a work house and I have never given it a job it couldn't handle.
What do you think is typical lifespan of a drive motor? Brad SEIN just said at least 2000 hours.
Maybe not. My Case ate two before 800 hrs. That could have been attributed to the previous owner's lack of maintenance, but the manual says to change the fluid at 500 hrs and at that point one of the drive motors was already history. I'm a little gun shy so I check the fluid level a lot and change it at no more than 200 hrs. In fact, I changed it yesterday. One had nice clean looking fluid and the other was a bit darker. You can guess which one won't last. Case, Cat and JD use Bonfiglioli drive motors. If only for that one reason...I put them in the same category. My next ctl will be a Kubota or Tak.
Just curious... How does worn old gear oil damage the seals. When mine went on the JD 332, it was the rear seal of the gearbox, where the track cog/gearbox spins against the hydraulic motor. I think its a metal on metal seal?
Just like yours...Bonfiglioloi's "Lifetime" duoseals were the problem with both of mine. My theory is that the seal heats up and whatever contaminants are on it can get sucked into the final drive case when it cools and compromise the gear oil. Changing out the duoseal requires removing the drive motor from the final drive, which requires a complete disassembly of the final drive from the outside cover, including all of the gears etc. Case wouldn't "rebuild" mine and JD didn't want anything to do with it. The CAT shop said they could, but that the cost would be equal to or greater than purchasing a rebuilt unit so they just replace the entire unit. All that for a $100 seal.
The number of hrs. a drive motor will last varies a lot. Mine packed it in at 1350 hours on a CT322. To make things worse is it was a bearing that went so it made a huge mess throughout the whole hydraulic system and took 1 pump with it. Some machines are more prone than others.............
My Cat salesman has a 279 that he's ready to send out for a demo, I haven't set it up yet..:cool2
What y'all waitin on CM ? It's only money.....he he he
What would be the reason for the radial lift 279 instead of a vertical lift 289 CM? For what I do, I would hate to go backwards to a radial machine when I have had a vertical one for so long, and see many advantages with what I do to the machine. My 287 is still going strong at 4,000 hrs, though it creaks and groans a bit and shows a few signs of being operated pretty much constantly beyond rated capacity. You are on the right track to go Cat, and leave Bob out of it, regardless of which one you settle on.
Jerry I don't like the vertical lifts for fine grading and that's 95% of what this machine does for me. I don't need a lifting or loading machine, already have those. Also with the vertical lift there are more P&B's to grease and ultimately change out.
When I was looking around for someone to rebuild the CT332's drive motor, I spoke with a guy in Ohio who said he could do it for 1200$ to replace the seal. He said he had 5 of these motors though sitting on his counter becuase of bad bearings. He figured out how to do the seal replacement but he could not find a replacement bearing source. How did the bearing breaking cause issues through the whole system? Was this bearing on the motor side? if so I'd guess it sent bearing pieces through the system?
Hmmmm, CM. Now I'm curious. I've never graded with a radial. 773, S250, TV320, 299C, and now my T770. What do you feel happens differently with a radial?
Yes, something like that............ Looking for a used motor in decent shape in case anyone hears of one (or two) Our dealer wants a small fortune for the motor, and along with the pump and few other bits and pcs. the machine isn't worth re building unless I can find used parts....
Well I'm basing my opinion on the older Bobcat models. Had a T190 and the arms were loose, not sloppy as I bough it new but not tight like 863G I had at the same time. The arms on the vertical machines were positioned higher which limited visibility from the cab. Also there are more P&B's to grease and ultimately wear out. The radial machines like the T250 seem more stable to me on the bucket end without the side to side motion I'd get from the (new) T190. Like I said above a CTL for me is a fine grade, demo clean-up, silt fencing installing type of machine. I don't need to load tandems or tri's or unload materials from flatbed trucks with the machine.
No disrespect to anyone but grading with either my 299 or 289 CAT is simple as can be and I'll put either on them up against just about anything out there. To say the vertical lift machine can't find grade is simply not true on these newer machines....they can load a Tri axle, , lift a small house clear off its foundation and fine grade with laser precision. ....I kid you not. You can't compare these newer vertical lift CTL's to something 10 or even 5 years old...they are two totally different animals....
The sight lines on the radial lift machines are cleaner, no way around that. Example would be working around plumbing subbed out of the ground when preparing concrete pads is much easier with the radial lift machines. Both machines do a good job, no real difference there that I notice, but there simply is less obstruction in the way with the radial machines.
I agree that the sight lines on a vertical are worse than a radial, but neither are good, just that one is less bad than the other, in my opinion. That is why I build brackets and mount a convex mirror on each arm. I can see beside, behind, and down to the ground right behind the track with ease. It sure makes tight quarters a breeze. Yes, I occasionally break a mirror doing clearing or demo, and it is easy to do when the boom is high enough you can't see them anymore, but that is a small price for the gains in safety and production by being able to see where I am going.
I never said they can't fine grade, I said I prefer the radial machines for fine grading.:cool2 Plus the visibility is better. There must be a market for the radial machines or they wouldn't make them.
You can't go wrong with either Kubota or Cat. Takeuchi makes a great machine but not a fan of radial lift. Never ran a Bobcat skid steer so can't say anything about it. Deere makes a good unit, but I personally hate the Cabs. The only brand I would not buy is Terex, and the new Case/New Hollands
Mustang dealer by any chance?
Good point CM.....I simply look at my camera.....I would agree that someone must want them or they wouldn't build them..
Either a dealer out someone starting a CTL museum...
There is nothing wrong with the new CASE machines. I have two of them. They make me money. I have not seen anything that would give me reason to change to something else.