Im building a tow behind compactor out of a couple compactor wheels. And need to get some wheel inserts cut out. The inside diameter is 47” for the compactor wheels, so I’ll be getting 4 discs cut out but unsure of the thickness to use. 1/2” or 3/8”? It’ll be done on a plasma table so I can get the exact centre also marked out. Compactor wheels are 63” tall, and 38” wide. Filled with oil. I’ve attached a picture of the wheels. I’ve taken the 3rd packer wheel off the tractor and make it into a towable unit as well with its own road tires on the back so it doesn’t need to be trailered. Put the tires back on the tractor and now am wanting to make the two wheels into a tow behind compactor as well.
3/8" might be OK with a thicker disc around the middle for extra support. Are you putting an axle all the way through or just welding a stub axle on each side?
Will just be a stub axle on each end. So was thinking 1/2” with some L bracket/ gussets. But the 3/8” route might be cheaper and more difficult to centre at the same time. Steel prices are high so I cut up an old rod weeder that my grandpa bought 30 years ago. It had 4”x4” 3/8” wall square tubing for the frame. I have my pieces cut to size ready to be welded together. The hitch is 4x8” and I’ll make it run all the way through so make it more rigid. I have attached an image of a design I am going off of. The hitch will run the entire length. With the packer supports being welded to the side of the hitch. And each wheel having its own frame to tilt. i need to figure out my bearings and pivot points as well.
Degelman makes land rollers for agricultural and they use a stub shaft on the ends. It’s supported with 4 gussets you can see in this picture. Was going to use a similar bearing and bearing bracket on my design as well. That way the bearings are replaceable.
well, 1/2” plate and 2-7/16” to 2-15/16” shaft seems to be the ticket. Found two different companies that listed their specs. And they line up fairly well
make sure to take some pictures of the build. Someone may find it useful in the future.
start off with the tractor. It has the tires back on it. The tires are filled with fluid, and the valve stems are toast. So it’s up on blocks till the tire guy can make his way back to the farm to replace them.
Here’s the rear mount packer that was on the back of the tractor. i cut up an old heavy cultivator to use the landing gear, and the hitch the landing gear is solid steel. 1.5”x3”. I welded it directly to the back of the frame of the sheepsfoot. Added a 3” gusset to help support it. I will add more support on it later if I feel it needs it.
i did it a little bit different to raise the machine. With the rear landing gear fixed permanently mounted on the rear of the packer. I needed to push the hitch downwards to lift it. So instead of mounting the cylinder up high and pushing down. I would’ve needed to build a support over top of the roller. I decided to have it push up off the front frame. Onto another heavy bar. the added supports are 3x3” steel welded to the hitch and the lift bar. the lift bar is 5”x3” heavy wall square tubing. It probably weighs 100 pounds by itself at least. Had to use a tractor to get it up there.
i left the hitch of the cultivator alone. It worked as a cultivator, so it should work as a packer as well. Its adjustable, and the tongue can tilt up and down. Which I have noticed in the 5 minutes I used it. Is a good idea, the hitch can move up and down and tilt on the tongue and doesn’t transfer it to the tractor.
This is where I’m at tearing apart the heavy rod weeder. It’s been sitting in one of the other yards for my entire life. pieces I have cut ready to get ground down cleaned up and put into a square in the shop. all the little cultivator shanks that came off of it. Unsure what I’m going to do with them. Scrap them or try sell them on classifieds. Oh and my helper in the back. that’s the keep pile. Lots of good heavy steel, pry bars from the rod, and there’s 6 idler shanks. Later I’m going to make a 3 point hitch ripper to put on the back of the tractor. Driving through the field to the combines with the tractor and grain cart with 500 bushels of canola in it for 4 days straight made quite a hard pack area. Hopefully the ripper I plan on making can break the hard pan and compaction.
solid steel bar that runs for the width of the main implement minus the wings. the hitch itself is adjustable. And it’s quite thick for a rod weeder. This thing was built to last. the drawbar main centre hitch, that runs from the tractor all the way to the back of the rod weeder. 6”x4” and at least 1/4” thick wall.
the 4x4” square tubing that made up the main frame of the rod weeder is 1/4” thick. Plasma cutter has made these two builds a heck of a lot easier. the first frame for the first wheel in the shop laid out and set up square. The floors not perfectly flat but it’ll be a lot closer then out in the gravel. the wings were mounted with these hinges. And a 1” pin going through, I was debating on instead of having the packer wheels pivot from the front on a pin. If I made them tilt on a hinge instead.
they’re built quite heavy. But still unsure how I want to make them tilt/hinge.
heres the two packer wheels out in the pasture letting the cows scratch on them. No they won’t tip over. They’re so heavy they squished into the ground when I put them down with my excavator. the inside diameter of the pipe is 47”. 1/2” wall pipe. So they must’ve used a normal 48” pipeline pipe to construct them. they measure 63” across from tip to tip of the knobs. But it’s sunk into the ground 3”.
got the weeder torn down even more. i got a couple nice 2-3/8” solid steel bars out of the floating hitch set up. 66” long a piece. Long enough to run straight through the wheels completely. And mount the bearings to.
still have two long pieces of 4x4” tubing from the frame left. Going to be using it for the cross pieces that will have the pivot pins. If I do decide to go that route. my terrible little drawing. Making sure I double check my dimensions and make sure I give myself enough room, and have enough tubing.
Your 3pt. ripper will likely need a lot of weight if it doesn't have down pressure.
Looking good!
Tractor has down pressure 3 point hitch. Also going to run a cylinder for the top link so I can tilt the shanks. We’ll see how it turns out. The end plates on the packers are going to be pricy. Probably in the neighbourhood of $1,500 just for the steel let alone cutting.
Does anyone have experience with these tow behind compactors? I’m torn on how to make the wheels tilt. do I utilize the hinges that came off the rod weeder? Or do I make pivot pins like most I see on the internet? I feel like the pivot pins would be a longer lasting option. But I’m stumped on how to make them actually able to hold the force without just pulling right out without using $200 bolts and nuts large enough. Today I got all my pieces of steel cleaned up ground down from cutting. Welded up the second frame for the packer wheel. Cut the piece of square tube off the one axle and cleaned it up some. Have to do the other axle still, remove some of the extra pieces off the main drawbar hitch. Then get my wheel frames and put them beside it so I can see where they should be sitting. Make sure they’re far enough back that they won’t hit the duals of a tractor.
I'd use 1/2" or 5/8" plates on either side of a thicker plate (3/4" or 1") in the middle with an 1 1/2" or 2" pin. Shouldn't be as much force on the tilting as there would be on pulling.
My only concern would be longevity of the hinges. And once they wear a little bit the drum will be trying to be pulled on an angle since it will be pulled from one side. I’d like to do the pivot pin in the front, if there is a way. That way it can be greased and the frame will be stronger.
I like the bottom pic hinge, looks easy to replicate and you can just get round stock and weld a plate on one side and drill a big hole on the other for a pin, add washers to space the slop out. If you plan running this thing a lot get the round stock threaded and buy some nuts.
I was looking at a double drum packer coming up in an RB auction. It had 2 seperate square tube frames. Each frame had a pivot in the middle of the packer and the tow bar was basically a tee with pins connecting it to each of the frames. Just thinking if you could get some bent or damaged hyd. cylinder rods, you could use those for pins with the nut or bolt to tighten them as required. Would need bushings preferably with grease fittings but you wouldn't need to grease them very often.
I want to do the hinge method, it would be the easiest to build and the cheapest. But I know I should do the pivot style at the centre of each frame like the first picture. I am thinking eventually I want to put a heavy semi trailer axle at the back and put a hydraulic cylinder so it can be lifted. That way it can be moved with a tractor down the road instead of always having to trailer it. And if I do the hinge method I’m not sure how I would keep the drums suspended, and to mount the axle on the back. I don’t want to paint myself into a corner, and take away the ability to add that later on.
Add a hole to pin in the bottom to lock up the hinge for travel
You know you'll do the pivot style in the centre of each frame
You’re right. I convinced myself that Doug the pivot pin style is a better option for me. I want to be able to add the tires onto the back, not only for transporting down the road. But to be able to lift the packer to turn around if need be so it won’t tear up the ground all the time. Or my yard. Plus the hitch doesn’t tilt, only angles up and down. So if one packer was solid to the hitch if it leaned over it would bind on the pin. Make more work, to make less work. didn’t get pictures, but haven’t gotten much done on the packer recently. Been fixing combine, and getting an air compressor I bought at an auction running. today I welded in end caps for the ends of the square tubing for the wheel frames. Also filled in a couple holes that were for the pins. Took them outside and put them beside the hitch on blocks. If how I have it set up right now is how it will be final product. I’m looking at 9’ wide, I was hoping I could get it narrower then 8’6 for simplicity of on the road and trailers. But I’m confident with this design that it will be sturdy and long lasting. I measured the shaft I want to use for the wheel axle, and on the paint it measures 2.43” which is 2-7/16”. So I’ll have to take some paint stripper and strip the paint off, and get a better measurement. I don’t want to have an inaccurate measurement because I’ll have to order these bearings in special order. I’ll have extra material after I cut the axles to length, two pieces roughly 18” long. Not enough to use them for the 4 pivot pins. But enough I could take them in and get a machine shop to make two. I’m thinking of getting them turned to 2-3/8”, get them to make 4 large castle nuts, buy some 2-3/8” rod, get them turned as well, and some thick walled pipe with inside diameter of 2-3/8” to use as a bushing to reinforce the frame. Plus that way I can drill a hole and put in grease points.
Havent made much progress, took thanksgiving weekend off. Now yesterday and today were absolutely disgustingly windy. 80km/h winds today, single digit temps. Not appealing. But I did go into the city and got bearings. $950 later I have four 2 bolt pillow blocks. Four 2-7/16” bearings with extended collars. And eight 8” 3/4” bolts to hold them down. I’m going to add 1/2 plates to reinforce the frame so that’s why I went so long for the bolts. also got 20,000lb weld on D rings so I can weld them to the wheels to handle them easier.
got the bearings installed in the pillow blocks. I was going to go with the 4 bolt flat flange bearings. But price and availability made me go with these two bolt pillow blocks. They had them in stock and a bunch on the shelf so if one ever breaks I can easily replace it. Each one of those bolts/washer/nut combos was $10. Crazy how expensive things are these days. $215 a bearing/pillow block combo as well.
If you'd go back Monday they'd probably be even more expensive.
Why is that? Carbon tax went up again? Or is there something else I’m missing? Lucky I dodged the credit card fee on these. It’s stupid these days. provincial sales tax Federal sales tax Carbon tax Credit card fee Recycling fee Luxury tax what else can they come up with?
Inflation
Buy some 1 inch Nord-Lock washers. About $5 each if you buy a box of 100. Individually are $8.50ea. I needed 40 and thankfully they had an open box so I got them for $6.25. $250 still seemed like a lot for washers. The bolt shop messed up on the bolts though. They didn't want to sell them to me but I had already paid for them. Odd they cancelled my order, without my knowledge, but just happened to have 40 1x1 1/2" gr. 8 fine thread special order bolts sitting on a desk. I got those for $2 something each. The guy said they were below their cost. I needed 60 5/8" Nord-Lock washers and it was cheaper to buy a box of 100. Huge price jump going to 1 inch size. Buying bolts at big box stores are a rip off. Peavey Mart or UFA isn't too bad because they sell common gr.5 hardware by the pound instead of individually where you have to write all the numbers on the bag. That is so annoying! Half the time you can't find a pen or one that works. Then you get some guy not sure what he needs standing in front of where the only pen to be found is and you're like get the eff out of the way so I can get these 2 damn bolts I need.
Starting to look like a compactor now.
Interesting chain of events happened, I have the single roller packer up for rent. I’ve had a dozen people wanting to buy it outright. But that’s not the interesting part. I talked with one guy, and he mentioned he wants to trade me for my double drum packed I’m not finished yet. Here’s what they’re offering to trade Now the catch, the transmission is toast. Engine runs. worst comes to worst. I have 4 wheels to make two more packers. And part the rest of the machine out.
Is it beyond economical repair then?
Transmission is very simple and basic, wouldn't be hard to rebuild if you wanted to do it. It could have done nothing more than toasted a clutch.
I have no idea, the guy originally contacted me offering to trade for their “self propelled packer”. But he knew nothing about it other then the transmission was bad. So I was interested, thinking it was a smaller old padfoot which would be a good trade for me if I could replace a hydraulic motor or pump. But last night he came back with pictures and I was surprised to see it was a 67,000lb compactor. how would parts availability be on these? A quick Google search brought up one post about the d343 parts starting to be discontinued by cat. i was not able to find the kind of transmission it has other then it is a 3 speed power shift. When I put in a serial number from a similar unit that I seen on an old classifieds ad the CAT parts website has no parts information but recognizes the serial number as the specific machine
Is the Serial Number prefix of the one in the photos 43N.? Do you have a full Serial Number perchance.? The 825B shares the same 3-speed powershift transmission as the 36H-prefix 824B Wheel Dozer so parts shouldn't be a problem. I'd imagine a lot of internal parts such as clutch discs, plates, seals, bearings, etc, are also common with a wide range of other models apart from the 824B There are literally thousands of D343 engines still around and I am not aware of any major issues with parts availability, either OEM or aftermarket. Hopefully others can confirm that.
I don’t have the serial number off the machine. I sent them a message right now asking for it. is the transmission a divorced arrangement with a prop shaft or is it bolted to the flex plate? what would you expect a transmission rebuild would run roughly these days? Just parts. If they’re as simple as you say I could probably tear it out and see myself.
Yes. It's not really a shaft per se, just a double u-jpint setup. LH side is TC output, RH is transmission input. Sorry no idea on cost but with the resources and facilities you have available to you I have every confidence that you could do it yourself. Attached SysOp for the Power Train.
Ah yes, I have the same style coupler that hooks the transmission to the engine on my Allis Chalmers M-100 grader. Which the splines are right worn out. I’ll be picking the brain of the owner to see what he conditions it had before it was parked. thanks again for your knowledge.
Just because he says the transmission doesn’t work it could be a bad pump or a hundred other things. It’d have to be properly diagnosed first. However nothing in that powertrain is complicated. For a start there are no electronics involved.
So just got word, the person operating the machine said the transmission slipped a couple times. Then went into neutral for good.
Loss of pressure somewhere by the sound of it. It would need diagnosing properly to find the culprit. $64k question is how much time are you willing to invest in the diagnosis.?
Not as much as it would need. So I’ve shied away from it. Plus I don’t have the money to invest into fixing and maintaining that machine at the moment. My packer is almost done and it’s going to be usable. My buddy is going to be cutting my steel tonight for the end plates gussets etc. But we had a blizzard for the last two days now. 10-12” of snow and rain. Icy roads. So I never got a quote on the bolts I wanted to. But guy was guessing 2-1/4” bolts 12” long would be $180 a piece. And the kicker… the nut would be $12. So $8XX and change for the bolts and nuts. machine shop quoted me $1100.
Could you use round bar with flanges and several smaller bolts or thread solid bar internally and use bolts like some Cat hydraulic cylinders have? Could probably have external threads machined on solid bar too for a big nut. If you could find some old hydraulic cylinder rods, you could weld a plate on the end with a bolt hole for holding it in place like a pin on a machine. The 1 other idea is having both ends threaded for a big nut or internally threaded for bolts. $180/bolt does seem a little high. Do the bolts need to be 2 1/4 inches?
My thought is that if that packer gets dropped in the mud, potentially stuck. All that weight is being pulled by the front pivot pin. The thicker diameter the bolt is, the more material it will have as the bolt wears down from pivoting. Continuing to give the strength over the years. I watched the hydraulic press channel and seen how strong the bolts are at this diameter and it gives me the utmost confidence that it will not fail. I would be comfortable with 2" diameter bolts as well. I can get heavy walled tubing with the inside diameter of both easily. What im going to do is cut out a hex shape out of 1/2" steel that the bolt will have, and weld it to the back side of the wheel frame to prevent the bolt from spinning in the frame. That way the bolt is untouched, easily removeable and replaceable in the field. I'm not just making this so that, i can take it easy on it and last for ever. I'm planning on renting it out and have to accommodate people who will trash and not care for it at all, and then hopefully last for a good amount of time. Over engineer with sheer strength and size, for my lack of actual engineering.
Just as a curiosity would the wheeled packer have the same neutralizer on the left hand brake pedal as the corresponding wheel loader ?
Got my steel cut out. Four half inch plates for the hubs of the packer wheels. Eight 3/8” swivel plates for the pivot pins. Sixteen 3/8” gussets to support the axle. Then 1/2” bearing support plates that will reinforce where the bearings are on the frame, to help prevent the pillow block from trying to rotate and distort the frame. oh and a 4” box end wrench that I’ll weld a bar onto so I can try and break free the axle nuts on my rome breaking disc hangs. More snow too, melted yesterday, this morning had more.
Good progress on the cut steel. You're more than half way there
Also ordered four 2” bolts and nuts. $146 a bolt, $14 a nut. Two weeks out. Should have the welding done by then. Only thing left I need to buy is some thick walled pipe for bushings in the frame for pivot bolts.
How's it going with the welding?
As you can see, exactly where it was last I left it. I got busy land clearing, did 50 acres almost this fall early winter, and in the mean time it got extremely cold since I got back. Had a week and a half there of -20 or colder. With close to -40 windchills. So I’ve been in my shop working on my snowmobile getting it ready for the season. Then I need to do some work to my truck. But after that I’m going to take my hoe and try and walk the wheels one at a time into my shop through the door so I can weld them. That way I can use solid wire instead of flux core.
What's the scoop on the sled? I had a hot rod Arctic Cat about years ago. D&D big bore, clutched, piped, stripped every extra pound off I could, etc. I could pass anything but a gas station. I ran it for about four years. After three rebuilds and a near death experience, I gave up chasing that high as I just didn't have the funds to support the habit. She was a rush though.
I have a f7 engine with a d&d big bore, rktek head, speedwerx lightened crankshaft i built for a drag sled. Lost interest once i went to the mountains That sled is a 2019 arctic cat alpha one, I have a bunch of lightweight parts on it. Jaws pipe set up. ECU flash. Just powdercoated the suspension which is that neon green in pictures.
Looks like you could maybe have used a little more voltage to flatten your welds out a bit but looks pretty good.
I wish i could've, would've helped me. But afraid my mig welder is only a Hobart 210MVP, and it's maximum is 3/8" steel. I tried to weld everything in an area while it was all hot. That's why i overheated my welder probably 12 times working it so hard. Did not follow the 30% duty cycle lol
I had same problem before, in the end the constant overheating caused the duty cycle to get lower and lower until it just couldn't do the higher settings. I splashed out on a 3 phase model around twice the capacity, and not had overheating stops since. Now, have to watch distortion of the workpiece instead
Oooh, i hope i didnt wear out my welder doing this project. I dont have 3 phase power on the farm. I'm ordering steel this morning for the bushings and what not. Trying to figure out a cheaper alternative for the pipe to align my bushings and bearings. I dont want to spend the money to buy the full length steel i wonder if PVC or something would be straight enough.
Aren't the bearings self aligning where they will allow for slight mis-alignment by swiveling in the housings? PVC might be close enough to align them or what about a wood dowel. You could check a dowel on a flat surface kind of like you check a pool cue for straightness.
Bearings will be fine. I'll measure the reinforcing plates close. the holes will allow me to move them around a bit. But the part that is most concerning is getting the bushings straight. Cant find any pvc thats 2.5" so i called an exhaust shop and got some 2.5" exhaust pipe to get cut i'll run it through the bushings in the square frame to make sure everything is lined up. I'll get it cut to 8 feet long so i can run it through the frame completely and then the two cross bars as well.
When I needed a piece of tubing to use to line up the swing pivots on my backhoe I just took the piece of 2 1/2" tube to a machine shop and had them put it between centers and machine 5 thou. of it. If I had a way to turn it could probably be done with emery cloth. It was about 2' long and cost $40 to turn it down. It should have only been $35 but the miserable grumpy guy at the machine shop charged me more than the original guy who gave the price. A 2 1/2" tube in a 2 1/2" bushing is too tight of a fit. Not sure how big your neighbors lathe is but might be able to turn some off one side and then turn it around to do the other side.
Got all my bushings cut to around 4" long, so will just be putting them in, giving them a rough turn. $60 an hour he said for lathe work. They're at my neighbors place right now. i think he said saturday. I was a little concerned with the cross bars strength being enough to support the weight of the drums and packer frames. I plan on putting wheels to transport them on the back so i added an extra bar across.
How much do the packer wheels weigh and what size are the axles? It puts a lot more stress on the axle and bearings picking the packer wheels up. I'd be worried about bouncing when towing with the packer wheels lifted. Might be good to have some kind of lock when in transport position so it takes the weight off the cylinder and stops it from creeping down. Something like a transport pin or lock like backhoe loaders have for the boom.
I'm not sure how much they actually weigh, they have oil or diesel in them. My 230 hoe can lift both of them at the same time. The axles are 2-7/16 solid steel with four 3/8" steel gussets that go to within inch or so of the bearing. My concern is definitely when its bouncing as well. I may end up taking another piece of steel and weld it to the inside of the frame like i did the ends where the bolts go through. I was going to make a heavy pin to lock the wheels in transport position. Was also looking at getting some landing gear from the back of an air drill since they're designed to function in the same way as what I'm wanting to do.
I didn't realize the axles were that big. You don't really have to lift the packer wheels that high. Just enough to take the weight off. If the pads just barely touched the ground wouldn't cause any damage.
I'm looking to make it get around a foot off the ground. So no matter the height of the hitch of the tractor the wheels wont be dragging going down the road. Today i managed to head into the city and got two hydraulic cylinders to try out to see which one would work better, and the original one i wanted to use was the better length. 28-1/4" collapsed length with 18" stroke, 4" diameter. So should be able to lift 17,000 pounds which it will never have to lift that much. I also got that piece welded on the part that pivots down where im going to mount my axle. Also bought a tarp because its suppose to rain tonight and tomorrow morning and i covered everything to hopefully avoid it getting all rusty and then having to take all the rust off again.
So, some things i still have to do to finish... 1. Make the bushings on the packer drum frames greaseable, 4" Square tubing with a 3" round pipe inside. So if i could find a grease zerk adapter/extension that's an inch long i could drill a hole in the top of the frames through the bushing and then install them. 2. Install a grease zerk in each pivot plate pair. 3. cut out gussets to reinforce the pivot plates, will need 16 gussets for the packer drum frames and 16 smaller gussets for the main hitch frame. 4. Weld on a top and bottom cap onto the two 3/4" plates that the rear cross bar is welded onto to make it more rigid and so that when the packer wheels are down it wont try to flex and twist. 5. Make a limiter strap/stop for the packers on how much they can pivot, and a locking bar for transporting. 6. Cut out twelve 1/4" washers for the pivot bolt/nut. 7. Figure out how to retain the nut from loosening as the drums pivot. 8. Make mud scrapers for the drums, was thinking about just going and buying some little scraper ripper shanks from a farm supply place since they're only $20. And are easily replaceable, if i make a holder for them. 9. Cut out and weld on the end cap on the open side of the square tubing. 10. Cut out and weld on corner braces onto the packer frames where the square tubing meets to help reinforce where i welded. 11. Build the rear axle assembly with transport lock.
You can thread the grease zerk spots 1/4" and buy 1/4 to 1/8 adapters to get a little spacing or you can just weld on 1/8" pipe collars (coupling) that should give you the space
That's what i did with the cross bar frames, but i didn't have access to the bushings on these ones. So i have them welded in now and i either have to cut a hole in the top of the tubing now to weld onto the bushing, or just drill a hole through the top and then tap and thread it down.
Looking very good, nearly there When you mentioned pins in your circle plates my inner voice of reason (pessimism?) said no no. With the leverage would they swell the inner edges and chew up the two opposing surfaces? Pins through welded on top tubes on the square sections nearer to the drawbar would have less leverage/ be stronger? Just my gut reaction. Looking forward to seeing it dragged about. Very handy bit of kit.
My cousin was the one who suggested just putting the pin in the pivot plate, but i had the same idea as well, that much weight will take that hole and open it up. Well tonight, i paid a little extra to get my steel cut out. Tomorrow if the weather cooperates i'll be trying to finish welding. Also bought a gallon of yellow rust paint and a 3 pack of spray guns... Never painted anything before in my life, so a crappy packer i built is a good way to start. Only thing left after i weld this stuff on is to finish the transport axle/tires. Got to call my neighbor and see what he wants for those combine tires and hubs. Edit: Thats a lie, i still need to make mud scrapers for it too. ugh.
I grew up washing dad's DeVilbis JGA's and got promoted to putting on the primer coats, I am still excellent at putting huge runs in topcoat Dad used to put a "dust" coat on concentrating on the harder to get corners first, but not getting to heavy a coat, then second coat (still not heavy) when 1st still tacky, then third coat to get the gloss. Me, I'd still have paint left in the pot so would go for a fourth, that's when big curtains of runs start rolling down everywhere. Ugh. When doing full respray, you'll dance back and forth over the least viewed sides, or trickier bits, getting your three coats on, you'll have finished third coat on some of it before the dance takes you to the dust coat on the main parts of the job. Set you gun up so the trigger doesn't go full bore. Open it up slightly for later coats. I love painting, even with runs. It means you've done it all, even the scrapers! Cheers.
Those large pivot bolts that you're having all the trouble with "tightness" I would suggest you really need castle nuts secured with a split (cotter) pin, or maybe Nyloc nuts might work. Re the weld cracking. Could you maybe try preheating the area to somewhere around 150 DegC before you start.? Another thought. Cut all the welds off and weld the two inside beads first, then you can weld the outside beads with better access. Maybe smaller size beads rather than one large one and hit each one with the needle gun afterwards.?
Maybe some Loctite on the big nuts would be a simple solution? You could probably drill a hole in the bolt and make your own castle nut too. Some preheat would definately help with the welding since you're really pushing the limits of your small Mig machine. Would be best if you could get a bigger welder, even a stick welder to do the highest stress welds but lacking that a good preheat would help to get better penetration. More smaller passes gives a finer grain structure than 1 big pass but having the pieces hot and keeping them hot with 2 or 3 passes will make for a stronger weld. Another thing that helps to stop cracking is to weld from both sides inwards so you don't leave a crater at the edge. Cracks can start easier at the crater.
I dont know if i said it in a previous video, but you are correct. I should drill a hole in each flat of the nuts and then take an angle grinder and cut out the slots, but it's so difficult to cut or drill into $90 nuts haha. I did not know about the smaller beads being stronger then one larger. But i did take out the torch and heated the area, very warm. Welded it super hot uphill, made a mess, then post heated it. Then did another pass on top of it downhill because im far better downhill them uphill and it made it look a lot better. I'm not sure what type of loctite i would need for such large fasteners, i couldn't imagine it being cheap. I agree with making my own castle nuts. That way it would not come loose. I learnt something new today about multiple smaller passes being stronger. I wish i would've known at the beginning of this project. But i guess if i ever have to do some repairs down the road, or build something else, i am going to be doing the smaller passes. Also good to know about starting the welds at each end. I always try to stop at the end of my welds and let the material build up to try and get rid of the crater but it doesn't seem to get rid of it completely.
They make a Loctite for larger than 3/4" fasteners. Not sure you would have to drill the nuts to make them castle nuts. The slots wouldn't have to go too deep and you could kind of round them with the cutting disc since you'd want a decent sized cotter pin. I wonder if you could put the nuts snug like you want them and just drill hole right through the nut and bolt? The other thing I've seen is to thread the nuts for a set screw. Tighten where you want and then tighten a set screw or 2. If you need to adjust just loosen the set screw. More beads does give a finer grain structure but you have to put enough heat into the material you're welding. To give an example, you could heat your plates almost red hot but if all you had was a 120 volt Mig welder with .023" wire and did 4 passes good luck on having the welds having the same strength as I good pass with a 3/16" 7018 or dual-shield flux-core at 250 or so amps.
Could you lose the inside washer completely (the one under the bolt head)? Would give you another quarter inch of thread on the outside to drill cotter pin holes in?
That is an option, but with the limited clearance i have between the drum and the bolt head, i have to remove the drums completely to remove the bolt. What i could actually do is remove the 3/8" thick washer, and replace it with a 1/4" thick washer that goes around the bushing. That way i could tighten the bolt down as tight as i want, because my bushings stick out farther then the cross bars. So it would tighten down on the bushing and there would be no preload on the pivot plates. And with my frame going from front to back it would put the force onto the rear cross bar until it deflects that 1/4" ( from removing the 1/8" of thickness from the front and back thick washers).
Does your bushing go through all the way then? If it does, that might be worth a try, doing it as you say.
Well, i had heated up the 3/4" plates quite warm, Then cranked my welder up as hot as it could and welded uphill. It was burning 1/4" into the thick plate and drooping down, but i managed to keep it going and while i worked uphill it would hill the cut. My welder is hooked up to 230v, and was on #7 which should be 210 amps? One thing i am having issues with, is the flux core wire is grounding out inside the gun behind the tip so i often have to remove the tip then cut some of the wire off and then put the tip back on.
Yes, there is two separate bushings, one in the cross bar, and the other in the packer frame. 3" OD, 2.52" ID. Then there is the full length bushing that runs all the way through both of those bushings. and i cut it so it would protrude out of the bushings slightly so i could tighten the bolt so it would lock the bushing onto the bolt. But alas, my cross bars were not perfectly straight, and my dimensions are slightly off. Same with how i cut my bushings. My chop saw never cuts perfectly straight.
Well, if you can shim things or adjust it somehow to pull up tight on your inner long bushing? On the welder, are you changing the tips often? New ones have less grounding problems, until the first time they do, after which it's a downward spiral of annoyance
I could probably get a few different thicknesses made out to shim it perfectly. That's actually exactly what i'll do. Leave my bolt and nuts intact. And then there wont be any positive pressure on the pivot plates making them easy to pivot. Lessening wear on everything. Good idea. I don't even want to admit how many tips i've went through, these stupid things arent cheap. I got to the point where i would remove the crap wire, clean the tips as best i could. Then take a toch nozzle cleaning tool and remove the burs from the inside and keep using them. But my issue is the wire shorting out pre tip. inside the part of brass that the tip screws into. "contact tip adapter", come to think of it, that coil that goes inside that may be missing...
Do you have the insulator on the nozzle between it and the diffuser? The diffuser is the part the gas comes out and the contact tip goes in. Looking at the size of the nuts, I think tapping them for a set screw or even a bolt could work good. There's not really any force trying to loosen the nuts. They just can't come loose. It would be easier to do too.
This is a diagram of exactly how my torch looks like. Which one are you talking about? I have removed A so i could get into tight areas, then accidentally touched C to the work piece and melted the spring washer that holds A on, so i have to buy a new C to be able to put on a new A. I'm starting to wonder if my dad was welding and took D out and didn't put it back in.
D is the liner. C is the diffuser. The insulator is the white plastic type material inside the nozzle (A). It stops the nozzle from being electrically hot. If you removed the nozzle you must be running self shielded flux-core wire. Without the nozzle everthing is electrically hot and it's very easy to accidently touch C or B to the work and cause arcing. I'm not sure if your Mig gun uses a jump liner at the gun or it's a 1 piece liner right from the drive rolls? It's what let's the wire feed smoothly through the long power cable. If your gun uses a short jump liner and it was removed would cause all kinds of problems. If it's a 1 piece liner and is cut too short will do the same thing. Could your dad have cut it shorter because he couldn't thread C on? If the mig gun is coiled up it could make the liner protrude further out of the gun where the diffuser (C) wont thread on. The liner is electrically hot since the welding wire goes through it. The liner needs to be the right size for the wire being used. It's most critical with smaller size wires. If it's too small will cause problems. Most liners are good for a couple sizes of wire. What wire are you welding with? If it's self-shielded flux-core I'm a little worried it's not the proper wire for your project. Basically you want something comparable to 7018 stick electrodes. The common self-shielded wires you see in box stores or even in welding supplies are general purpose wires that aren't designed for dynamic high strength loads. They also have low penetration. I guess if you put big enough sound welds they could still work though.
Yes, i most definitely found out that everything becomes hot haha I have one spot i needed to get into that was super tight so i took the nozzle off and now i need to replace everything up front haha. My liner has quite a few arcing spots inside with spatter in there. Not sure if its one piece i needed to get some welding done yesterday before it started to rain on me. I've went through 20 tips now doing this project and it seems to get worse as time goes on. It's always when im starting a new weld, i press the trigger and when the wire touches the work surface it arcs and then stops pushing wire. I have to take the tip off and just behind the tip the wire melted and it feeds into itself and makes a ball behind the tip itself. Usually fusing itself to the tip and melting itself inside. E71T-GS wire, but i should've been using E71T-11 reading the difference of multi pass and single pass wire.
Oh no, that's what I expected. You're using about the worst wire possible unfortunately. E71T-GS doesn't even meet any AWS specs. E71T-11 does allow for multipass welds but it's still not designed for higher strength dynamic loads. E71T-GS is probably worse than welding with 6013 stick rods. Sorry for being a little harsh but you've got some big heavy pieces and you're welding them with wire designed for sheet metal and very light duty applications. In the field it's not too bad if it breaks but pulling it on the road at higher speed with a little bouncing could be really suspect. Kind of comparable to the tire with the cut on the sidewall. It holds air but would you trust it for long? It's too bad you didn't ask for recommendations on what wire or even type of machine to use before you started this project. If your liner was arcing you should change it. It's possible it has arced on the inside as well and that is causing the wire to not feed properly when you first start.
Well thats unfortunate, before i purchased any wire i used google and searched 7018 equivalent flux core wire, and it came up with E71T so me not knowing any better seen the GS and went with that. Looks like i'll be redoing a lot then, the drums were at least put together with solid wire in the shop. You never mentioned what wire i should be looking for to replace my GS with. Doing reading and T-8 wires were the ones i was suppose to use, but i cant even use them. 8" spool is as big as i can fit in my welder, and 0.045 tips are the biggest tips i can find. Not to mention i can't even seem to find a supplier that has it local to me.
I didn't mention what wire would have been better because the welds were already done. You found the answer yourself though. The numbers or letters after the E71T are the most important. The E means electrode (electric welding) the 70 means 70,000 tensile and the 1 means all position. The numbers after basically tell the type of loads and applications the wire is for. The T means tubular (flux-core). E71T- 8 like Lincoln NR232 or 233 would have been a better choice but knowing the GS is only recommended for single pass welds should have been a red flag. Don't feel too bad though, I was in a welding supply once and the guy at the counter was absolutely clueless. A customer asked for some 6010. He went and looked and they didn't have it. He came back with some 6013 and said it's only 1 number different. I just kind of bit my tongue thinking what an idiot to be selling in a welding supply. The 1 number different is the most important of all the numbers. A good way to tell if an elecrotrode or wire is designed for dynamic loads is to look at the spec. sheet. If it it lists low temperature impact strength values it is designed for higher strength dynamic loads. I think most of your welds will likely be OK if you used a lot of preheat but the more critical ones like on the wheel lift or main pull hitch you should at least reinforce them with 7018 or equivalent wire. Even just welding an inch or 2 at the ends of the existing welds with the stronger rods or wire will add strength. Would be best to do a little grinding and weld towards the center. If you can move the packer into the shop you could use dual-shield wire. You could even use solid Mig wire turned up hot as it is basically equivalent to 7018 if done properly. .035" would work. I wouldn't use a smaller size.
If possible use the holes on the shanks to mount them. Maybe even burn a second hole and make them elongated to compensate for wear. You only need them on one side. I'd suggest the back side so they clean any packed mud the quickest. DON'T weld them. They are spring steel which requires special rods and procedures to weld. If not done properly will snap off pretty easily. What you could do is weld a couple pieces of all thread or grade 5 or lower bolts on the frame to hold the shanks. Grade 8 bolts could snap off easily too.
Honestly, i didn't even know what the GS meant. All i seen was the e71T, being in an extreme rush needing to get back to the farm for seeding i grabbed it and left. Not many options for me to find wire around. I have an old Forney stick welder, but needs some work, new plug wired in and electricity is the last thing i went to mess with, especially a 240v outlet. Last time i used it was probably 7 years ago. 7018 rods on a stick welder was by far a better option but it takes so long to stick weld compared to a mig and i have been on a tight schedule, only able to work on it between loads. Most of the welds i did with the flux core wire were on 1/4" to 1/4" steel. Except on the back of the packer on the 3/4" plate, and the wheel lift bar, but i heavily gouged that down to a point and built it up, with the wrong wire. So i'll be gouging that out to redo if i do decide to use it. The heavier welding on the drum and the axles/plates was done with solid wire with mig mix gold shielding gas. I tried calling around today and i wasn't able to find someone who knew what they were talking about for what wire i should be using, and none in the 0.035 or 0.045 wire sizes, everything available was very much larger. I am definitely going to take your advice and take everything apart and redo my welds again. Grind them out and reweld them with the appropriate wire. I purposely haven't welded on the main pull hitch. It is left unwelded exactly like it was when it was a rod weeder. I purposely attached the support bar with the bolts to the hitch because i didn't want to weld it to effect the structure of the weld onto the towbar.
I was thinking about sandwiching them between the cross bar and another plate that i would be able to tighten bolts to the crossbar with. My dad came and looked at what i was doing because we just finished seeding and he said "just weld the suckers on" and i thought the that you couldn't weld cultivator shanks. I figured that they were spring steel. But didn't know you couldn't weld spring steel. Do you think the all thread when welded to the cross bar would bend and wreck the 1/4" steel? I never thought about putting allthread on. I was going to try and cut a piece of 1/2" steel drill and tap it for a bolt. But allthread is WAY easier. By the way, for anyone curious this is the same model implement that i start with. I just cut it all up and used majority of the steel.
The numbers on rods and wire can be confusing. Sometimes you'll see a chart showing what different stick rods are used for but seldom for wire. A lot of people even on the Welding web only consider the tensile strength. I got tired of explaining mostly to one person that tensile strength is only a very small factor in determining the strength of welds and consumables. I think if you just gouged out a couple inches on each end of the welds you need to be the strongest would be sufficient. I think if the all thread or bolts had good welds would work. Material would have to be wet to stick to the packer wheels so it wouldn't put too much stress on the bolts to scrape it off. Bolts with the heads cut off would be better because the threaded portion only has to be a thread or 2 below the thickness of the shanks. It could even be higher if you used washers then there's no notch effect from the threads right next to the heat affected zone at the edge of the welds. Spring steel can be welded but requires specialty rods and procedures for it to be successful. Not really worth trying if there's other options.
As a suggestion if you decide on some improvements to the design you could consider something like the (not to scale) illustration below for reinforcing gussets at the corners of the tubular frame. They would spread the stresses out far better than the rectangular plates you used initially.
I'm struggling to find your recommended NR232 or NR233 in 0.045". Everything i can find on the internet is larger diameter. Would those be welded into the corners? Or remove the rectangular pieces and replace them with those?
It looks like the smallest T-8 wire is .068".Edit: Dual-shield comes in .045" in 15lb. spools that would fit your machine, Hobart Excel-Arc 71. Too bad your project is almost finished. It would have been a good excuse to upgrade your welding machine(s). Maybe you can find someone to fix your stick welder plug? The gussets Nige suggested could go inside if there's room or on top and bottom of the frame. The concave curve is so the packer wheels won't hit them.
Does it make more sense if the tubes are superimposed over the gusset.?
Whats the benefits of doing dual shield vs solid wire? I dont think i'll be tackling any projects like this for a while. Caused me quite the headache now with using the wrong wire. I do have room in between the drum and the frame. Yep that helps, in a perfect world i would've gotten those shapes. But the amount of material those would've taken would've doubled the price. For right now i may be able to make a gusset in the corner to fill in like yours does, with some pieces that i cut out for where i put the bushings between the two cross bars. They're 3" wide, and 1.5" down. I could cut them to fit snug into the corner maybe.
Dual-shield has better penetration and less chance for cold lap because it basically runs in spray transfer.
So, i got a cord put on the welder with the proper plug. With my new 1/8" 7018 rods i got a couple rods into welding. Ground off most of the old weld and then put a bead or 3 or 7018 in its place. First rod i did i commented to my dad, wow its so easy to get a brand new rod started(never welded with new rods before). On the 4th rod right in the middle of welding, it felt like the welder lost half its power, can't hold an arc at 110amps. It wont strike and start arcing, it sticks EXTREMELY bad, even when lightly feather light striking a match. Put a handful of rods in an oven and heated them up thinking it was moisture, with no change. Tried putting it up to 180 amps, and it still wont even arc, i could barely get it to start welding. Once i got it welding i had to hold the rod so it was almost submerged in the puddle or else i would lose arc. And then most of the time the rod would freeze in the puddle. I figured since the welder is so old and hasn't been used for quite a few years, it kicked the bucket. So i bought one off the classifieds that was functioning. Same Forney brand, but 225 amp welder instead of 180. Got it home and tried it out, and it wouldn't weld right, just like the old one. Same issues, no arc, impossible to strike and start the arc without it sticking. Even cranking it up to 225 it keeps sticking and wont let me stick out hardly at all. Even took it over to another shop on the farm and same issue. I've wasted twenty rods now, and got myself hot under the collar. Here's a picture of the first couple welds that i did BEFORE the welder started acting up. This is 1/8" 7018, on 1/4" steel. You can see to the right of the weld, i could not get the rods to start arcing. I lightly dragged them down the steel to try and wouldn't start arcing.
What size breaker were you running off? It sounds like insufficient input current and/or an over heated breaker. Maybe bad cable connections on the stinger or ground clamp. Can you rent an engine drive welder? It would solve any electrical issues. You might have exceeded the duty cycle but with 1/8" rods shouldn't have.
I believe it was a 50 amp breaker, it never tripped the breaker, but i did go and flip it off and left it for a while, then turned it back on to with no change. Tried plugging the welder into a different plug, with no change, it was less amperage and did flip the breaker eventually. I used the set of almost new cables that came with the welder i bought, and the almost new cables from the old welder with no change. I also cleaned the cable plugs, male and female ends. Old welder where you move the cables into different holes to change it. Electrician is coming out Thursday to take a look at the breakers to see if theres something going wrong.
With the kind of projects you do you should look for a better than bargain basement welder. An inverter would use a lot less power but if you get your power checked out and it's good look for a used Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DC or Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC. A good welder would pay for itself in 1 project. I don't really understand people who have money for equipment but never seem to have any to buy the proper welding equipment for their needs.
This is the welder, not some cheap Chinese junk like the new forneys. Will have to wait and see what the electrician can find out. In the mean time i'll get all my mud scrapers cut out. I did go to the store and found grade 5 all thread. 3/4", i got 9 feet of it. still debating on how i will mount the scrapers. The flat plates that were holding the shanks onto the cultivator, well i just cut them all off. I'm thinking i'll flip them upside down and then use those to sandwich the scrapers tight. I just seen a post online saying that one guy couldn't get his forney welder to run ac/dc 7018's, could strictly only run AC 7018 rods
The older Forney's were just basic AC buzz boxes. If you tried a new Forney DC inverter you'd never go back to AC. Should be able to find a good used Idealarc or Dialarc AC/DC in the $500 range or less. You'd be amazed how much nicer and easier it is to weld with DC current. Night and day difference with the right machine.
I just looked on the classifieds, no luck to find one. If i could find one one for under $500 i would buy it if they're as good as you say, but there isn't one within 500km.
There's no rental outfits near you?
I've used these wires in the past and they're available in .045". https://www.hobartbrothers.com/products/product-details/?hbproductname=FabCO%20Triple%208 https://www.hobartbrothers.com/products/product-details/?hbproductname=FabCO%20XL-550
I think he needs 15lb 8" spools to fit his machine. I posted earlier of a Dual-shield wire that would work for him. Being that he welds outside sometimes stick would be the best solution and having DC current is so much easier to use, especially for out of position welds.
I hope you got it for less than $350. It's equivalent to an AC225 Lincoln. I've used a Forney and will say it was better than a Miller Thunderbolt. I saw an Acklands/Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC somewhere in Sask. for $1000 but that's a little high. If it came with decent cables maybe $750. It is more than twice the machine the Forney is. I wonder if putting an add on Kijiji looking for an Idealarc or Dialarc might turn up something?
Yup. Even with my suitcase feeder and engine drive, stick certainly still finds a lot of use for me. So much less setup time is just one facet, as is consumable cost much less for a small repair job.
I saw an Idealarc in Alberta asking $300. Another nicer looking one asking $700 and a couple good looking newer Dialarc's around the same price, 1 even had a remote control. An Acklands branded Dialarc is likely around 30 years old so should be a little less. Age isn't a big deal though if it works.
Are you close to Regina? There's a Red-D-Arc location there. They rent and sell used welders. They will even load test used machines to make sure they are in good shape. Some machines come with a warranty. I'm not sure what a used Maxstar 150 or 200 inverter would be worth. A 200 would be better but 150 amps is more than enough to burn 1/8" 7018 and 5/32" 6010/6011. The nice thing about a small inverter is you can easily carry it around and they use less power. They are the largest welder rental outfit in N. America with thousands of welders. Many are made especially for them by Miller and Lincoln, maybe other manufacturers as well.
I would definitely have tried those if they came in the 8" spool. I've never welded with DC current before, i was quite comfortable with how the welder was acting when it functioned properly the first couple rods. You're really selling the DC welder lol. That picture was one i seen on kijiji of one similar to the one i bought. I was able to get mine for $60, with a helmet, some bronze braising rods, wire connectors, 400 amp ground clamp, stinger, and the cables. Couldn't go wrong, was a gentleman retiring who had his own machine shop. Might go back and buy a few other things from him. Regina isn't too far away from me no, electrician comes tomorrow so if he says theres nothing wrong with the power i'm going to have to figure something else out. Maybe i'll take my welders there regardless to see how they handle a load test. https://www.princessauto.com/en/stickmate-160i-stick-welder/product/PA0008785206 DC powered stick welder 160amp, any review on this one? Brand new with warranty sounds appealing, but i'm definitely looking at one of the ones you suggested first.
I saw that Forney asking $350. Normally I'd say to buy from a welding supply but Hobart are basically the consumer version of Miller. They're usually almost identical but may not have as many features, in Mig machines mostly. They are much closer to the commercial Miller machines than the Lincoln box store machines. The welder at Princess Auto wouldn't be a bad choice but only 30% duty cycle meaning can only weld for 3 minutes out of 10 and has to cool off for 7. The description is a little wrong, 5/32" refers to the size of rods it will burn not the thickness of steel. Princess Auto has a great warranty policy. Could probably burn 5/32" 7018 and be easy to move around. You'd notice a big improvement with DC over an AC only machine. It is an inverter comparable to a Miller Maxstar. Would be good to see if Red-D-Arc had a used Maxstar but might be close to the price of the Hobart. They might have a used 200 amp Maxstar that would be even better and have a higher duty cycle at the amps you use. If you get the Forney working you could still look for an Idealarc or Dialarc for less money. They Idealarc has a 50% duty cycle at 200 amps and could burn 3/16" rods. The Dialarc is similar. I wouldn't pay Red-D-Arc to load test your machines. Wait to see what the electrician says. I forgot to ask if you're using an extension cord on the welders? If it's too small could cause the issues you're having. Another advantage of an inverter is you don't need as big of a breaker or extension cord. If you're considering the welder at Princess Auto ask them if it ever goes on sale. I've got a sale price on several things at PA even if they weren't on sale at the time just by asking. Normally it's 30 days before or after but I got a sale price from 3 month's ago.
Yeah, thats the one i just got the picture from, not the welder i bought, but same model F225. I will call Red-d-arc and see what they have for used units if my power turns out to be functional. I was not using an extension cord at the shop i was welding at originally when i ran into the issues, but i was using a 25ft 8/3 rated to 40amp cord at the second plug in our other storage building.
For 1/8" rods you should be OK with that extension cord. I have a feeling something went wonky with your power. I added some notes to my previous post. Too bad I wasn't closer or I'd bring my old SA200 Lincoln over. You'd be amazed at how nice it burns 7018 compared to AC. Yes, that much difference.
My guess was a broken wire somewhere. Put the welder just at the plug in the second shop and just try on a flat piece of metal.
Either way i very much appreciate all your responses, it has helped me immensely. And I'm glad you mentioned the wire differences and lets me fix issues that could possibly arise later on. That i can do today, we had a thunderstorm over us for the last 4 hours building constantly, so it's quite muddy everywhere now.
You mean to say that you have never had the dubious pleasure of arc welding while wearing wet boots.?
I was trying to fix a leak on a golf course irrigation junction. They dug a hole to get at it but the ground all around was soaked. I was wearing welding gloves but when I put my hand on the edge of the hole to jump in I got a steady shock. I wasn't welding and the welder was only idling but it still electrified the ground. From what I've heard that's where DC current is much safer than AC current. In wet conditions the current basically leaks out of the cables.
I'm glad you took my advice as I intended it and are going to beef up the more critical area's. Would hate to have something break at the worst moment. I was never trying to put you down or call you out. Just trying to pass on what I've learned over a few decades in the welding field. It's refreshing to have someone read my advice and try to learn from it instead of going on the defensive. Your packer build is pretty impressive. I wish I could find some cheap packer wheels to make something similar for my oval track. The prices for used pull type packers I've seen start at about $12,000! I've seen self propelled for less money.
Yep, quite honestly im kind of scared of welding in wet conditions. So i'd rather not, we have had a thunderstorm every day for the whole week so haven't made much progress on the packer. The electrician came yesterday and determined that the electricity is just fine. Getting proper voltage and drawing the correct amount of amps. Sure enough though, the original welder worked just fine the first rod i used in the shop i have been working out front. So we went over to the big shop and checked the welder i just bought. And he knew right away the sound of it that there's something not right. It's not buzzing like the other one. And it did the same thing, wouldn't arc, would just stick. Power also tested just fine in the big shop. So time to call for a different welder see if they have a used one that would be good for me. I want the help, thats why im posting so much about the build. If anyone can see what im doing and then find ways to improve it i'm all for it. Since its going to be pulled down the road by a tractor, last thing i want is for it to be breaking and getting out of control. I've calculated that with the packer wheels lifted and the transport tires down. I'll have too much tongue weight for a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton truck to tow it. Probably 2,600lbs of tongue weight, that is IF the packers weigh 4,500 pounds each. I know I'm not an exceptional welder, so trying to minimize the reasons for anything to fail. You're definitely right, I'd love to find a self propelled unit for less then $12,000. I'm thinking im going to sell my other little tow behind packer and try and find a self propelled one with vibrate.
Can the new welder be switched for different voltages, maybe it's set for 460 volts? Could take the cover off with it unplugged and see if anything looks fried or not right. If it's no good tell the guy you want your $60 back. It's not much but will buy a box of rods. Could you lift it so the packer wheels are still lightly touching the ground to give less tongue weight?
I'm worried about it starting to bounce unless they get completely off the ground. It'll want to start skipping i think. The closer i can get the tires to the packer wheels the better i'll be. Just moving the axle 8" farther forward elevates 600 lbs of tongue weight. Weight Distribution Calculator See how moving components around your vehicle can affect the center of gravity, moments of inertia and the weight distribution with this simple but effective drag and drop calculator. www.racingaspirations.com This is the calculator i'm using, which is meant for race cars, but i have some calculations. 55" from the drum axle, to the axle of the tires. if it was directly inline with the L shaped piece that the hydraulic cylinder is attached to. And 132" from the drum axle to the hitch where the pin is. So i can use the calculator to set my wheel base to 187". Make two weights and put them 55" from the rear axle, and 132" from the front axle, set the weights to 4,500 lbs. And then i can play with the axle position to try and get my tongue weight where i need. And there's no way i can make it truck towable.
There's probably trailer weight calculators online too but good to have an idea how much tongue weight and how much on the wheel hubs with the packer wheels lifted.
I haven't done any work on the packer recently, got preoccupied in other things on the farm. Rebuilt a gear box on one of the swathers, investigated a leak on my excavator under the cab, found basically half of the nylon pilot hoses had pin holes and were all sweating everywhere. So i removed 23 hoses and replaced all of them. $1,400 birds nest, and the hoses outside diameter was slightly larger then the original ones so it was an absolute CHORE to replace all of them and fit them in the holders. But meanwhile doing that my turbo seized up, so i took it off and put it on the bench, there was a piece of rust scale that got lodged in the exhaust turbine. Priced out new ones, and the cheapest i could find was $6,000. So i cleaned it all up, hit everything that i could with the needle scaler to remove any chances of that happening again. I also just bought at an auction the Hobart stickmate 160i welder, for 1/3 of the price at princess auto, its brand new in box. So going to get that tomorrow then i could try out DC welding.
Let us know how much nicer DC is for welding. Only thing to watch is not exceeding the duty cycle. Usually doing a weld then chipping it extends the welding time quite a bit. Hook the stinger to positive for most rods, especially 7018 and 6010.
That welder is TINY. Surprising how much power it can put out for being so small. Definitely different then AC welding. I'm struggling to weld overhead. Trying to re-do the welds on the underside of the cross bars on the hitch since it will be getting the weight from the packers while its lifted. Definitely smooth and on normal welding it does a good job. Trying hard to remember 30% duty cycle.
Why do you make things harder for yourself? I think your plasma would have blown the holes through your mud scrapers but why not bolt them from the top? Much easier to weld. Put anti-seize on the studs.
I definitely used the plasma to put the holes through, instead of piercing i just made a cut from the first hole to the second hole. Worked well. I made 20 mud scrapers, so i have scrapers on the back of the drums, and the front of the drums. 16 in total, then 4 spares. my three 36" sections of 3/4" all thread made me a few extra studs as well. Each scraper is held on with two 3/4" studs, a flat washer, a lock washer, and grade 5 nut. 32 of each. Let me tell you, it took me a LONG time at the bench grinder to taper the end of the studs and clean the threads after cutting them on the chop saw. The scrapers are on the bottom because I'm trying to keep the dirt below the frame. Don't want the packer to get covered with dirt so if i can scrape it off below, be it on the front or the back, as long as its below the frame. Plus it just looks nicer with them below. I ended up welding the studs to the frame with the flux core. Not critical for them to get 7018. But i'm going to have to weld the transport tire frame together using the 7018 and do some overhead, so i best figure out a way to practice. I cranked the welder up to 160 amps and tried it. I was surprised it really melted well. It's been a few years since i really welded stick.
I meant you could have made the holes without starting at the existing hole. I don't think you needed double scrapers. Once any dirt is scraped off it won't pick up more until it does another revolution. It won't pick up mud from the top side. It depends on how hard dirt and mud get packed as too how strong the welds need to be. The flux-core you have is not good for your application. Keep a short arc for overhead welding and a slight weave helps control the puddle. If at all possible try to get it positioned for flat welding, especially where you need the highest strength welds. I bet your 973 would play with the packer.
I tried, but i burnt myself way too many times trying to pierce through. The way i did it made it easier. When people back up that's when the dirt would be coming around over the top. Either way, it got more weight and more cleaning on the drums. If i didn't use the flux core i'd still be underneath there welding on the studs, and having to die grind the droops of bead so the scrapers could sit flush. not enough room to get grinder in there. If they break off then i'll re-do them when they break with the 7018. When overhead 7018, is it pull with a 10 degree angle? Definitely going to be welding the transport tire frame together completely in the shop. I'll tack it together on the machine though. There will inevitably be the spot on the underside of the frame where i'll have to weld overhead for the brackets that the pins will go through.
Weld overhead basically the same as you would flat. The rod has to be at enough angle that the arc pushes the the slag back from the puddle. 10 deg's. should be OK.
For some reason i just can't get ahold of overhead. Vertical welding where i have access too i can KIND OF weld, i really stress the kind of part. So to make up for it i just did 6 passes, i wanted to practice anyways. Got some steel cut out for the transport tire system on the back. 1/2" steel plates, 2" hardened pins. some 3.5" 1/2" wall tubing and with a replaceable bushing. Definitely looking forward to being done this project.
For your vertical welds weaving is easier than stringers. You could do the 1st pass with 3/32" and weave about a 1/4" wide. Then you could do a wider weave over top with 1/8" or even just the 3/32" rods. That's the great thing about stick welding, you can use smaller rods to make more difficult welds easier. Larger vertical welds are basically like putting horizontal beads on top of each other. Don't worry about how wide you weave either. As long as there's no slag inclusions you can weave as wide as you like on steel. There's a bunch of wife's tales that weaves should only be 2 1/2 or 3 times rod diameter, etc, etc. One of the main engineers who helped write the ASME codes told me he would challenge any weld procedure that limited weave width on steel. He said there is negligible difference in grain structure compared stringers or narrower weaves. For overheard practice on some scrap first to get the hang of it. DONT put water in the drums! Only takes one Oops I forgot to drain the water before the weather turned cold. Weather can change in a few hours in Western Canada. Use windshield washer fluid or something else that won't freeze. The packer is already heavy, why the need to drain it anyway?
I was hoping to be able to use water to make transporting the packer easier, easily drain the drums to alleviate the tongue weight. IF it has oil or diesel in the tanks, the weight is staying in there for ever, i dont want to deal with draining the oil/fuel out and making a mess. Good to know about the vertical welding. My issue for overhead is that the transfer from the rod never works out. I try smaller stick out and it bridges and freezes in the puddle. I'll have to get some more practicing done today.
Little update, back has been in rough shape, wasn't able to do any work on the packer to finish the transport axle/wheel set up. Have steel cut out for the brackets, and pieces of pipe ready to go, just haven't gotten a good axle to use, still want a 10k or 12k trailer axle with electric brakes. But in the meantime, i have used the packer to compact the entire building pad for our new shop, did a lot of with with it so far. And never had any issues, except the one nut came loose. Which i haven't figured out the way im going to secure the nuts from loosening. I'll get a picture of the building pad and the trenches i've compacted with it.
Darn, too bad you weren't closer. I just hauled 61 axles from a trailer shop to an auction yard and am helping to sort them out. There are a few 10K. Two are torsion axles with hydraulic brakes that were never used and worth about $2000 new. The owner of the shop wanted them gone and was going to send them to the scrap yard. The foreman and I convinced him they were worth more than scrap so he said we could have them and keep the money. There was also a large steel rack for them. It was cut into 6 sections I hauled to the auction yard. I think the auction starts next Friday and runs for 10 days. There's some good 7K axles as well, some unused. I can get some pics. and more info if you might be interested. Thought about taking them to RB's but they want a min. sellers fee of $150 for each lot. It would cost more to sell them than we'd get.
I have had ZERO luck trying to find a good used 10 or 12k axle. That's what im really banking on to find. I wonder how much shipping would be on one of them. I really want electric brakes, so i can tow it behind anything with a electric brake controller and have the added braking capacity. There's a manatoulin depot in Regina i can go to and pick it up. I had bucket teeth for my track hoe shipped that way from ontario or quebec and it wasn't too bad actually. Small pallet.
I'm helping to catalogue them tomorrow. Should have had it done today but the guy wanted to spread them all out first. Then he's asking if I can tell if axles match just by looking at them. Some axles are 2" difference. Most are marked. I suggested taking a pad and writing the dimensions down so they're easy to match but he didn't quite understand why the pad and pen. I hope he takes some commision off for me doing all the work he should be doing. We want to try to get the most money for them. I know there's some 7K unused with electric brakes but not not sure if there's a 10K with electric brakes. I don't think it's real expensive to add brakes. New 7K hubs with brakes and drums are $180. 10K are wider brakes but I can't remember the price. I'll see what axles might be suitable for you. I know there are 2 10K axle tubes with no hubs or anything that will go cheap because they're plain. The hubs and brakes can be added.
I’ll be honest I haven’t read this whole forum so not exactly sure what “nut” you are talking about, but couldn’t you tack weld the nut once you have everything tight? Sucky part is if you ever needed to take it off it would require you to torch it off, but it wouldn’t come apart again.
So each drum has its own frame that's independent from the towbar frame. And in the middle of the front, and the back i created pivot points, so the drums can lean in either direction independently. Instead of using a pin(because my frames weren't perfectly true and square) i opted to use large bolts and nuts so i can tighten them to straighten everything out. I also put a bushing material inbetween the bolt and the frame so it will wear the bushing instead of the bolt. That thing was expensive.
How big of bolt we talking? Maybe a nylon nut will keep it from backing out if it’s not super huge.
I spent several hours today helping to catalogue the axles. I wasn't expecting to spend that much time and forgot to take some pics. Unfortunately there's only a couple options for 10K axles. There's the 2 axles with torsion suspension and hydraulic brakes listed seperately, but the same, and 2 10K bare axle tubes listed together. They should go pretty cheap like under $100 I'm guessing and maybe under $50. It all depends if someone is interested in them. New they are 16-$1700 each. They have 43" spring centers. Talking with the foreman at the trailer shop new hubs with drums and electric brakes for them are about $800 each. Then you need wheels and tires. If a 7K axle would work there is a new unused torsion axle with electric brakes. Thinking it should go for a few hundred $$$. A torsion axle may be a good option for your packer because it would provide suspension if you hit a bump or had to travel on a rough road. You wouldn't have to do anything too elaborate to make use of the suspension like you would with spring suspension. I asked him how much safety factor axles have but he wasn't sure if there's a specific amount. He did say axles are much stronger than their ratings. I'd say if your packer is under 10,000lbs. a 7K axle might work. I can't remember if your hitch takes any weight or it pivots up and down. You're not going to be pulling the packer all the time and you're not going to be going faster than maybe 50kmh on a smooth road. Just my thoughts though. If you really want a 10K axle it might be worth looking at used equipment and scrap dealers for an old trailer that's not road worthy but has a suitable axle. The last option I can think of is to buy some 6000lb stub axles from Princess Auto and make your own axle with heavy pipe or square tubing. Hope this helps. Let me know if you want some pics.
I cant even remember what i used now, i think its a 2" bolt. So the head of the bolt is 3.5" i believe? The nuts were $180 a piece, with no option for nylon lock nuts.
$800 per axle? OR $800 per hub? I never thought about using a torsion axle for it. That would alleviate the shock load when hitting a pot hole or wash boards on the road transporting it. But guarantee it will be well over the 7,000 lb rating, and if its going down the road I'd like to try and keep it legal as best i can. That's why i was hoping to go with a 10k or 12k with brakes. With it being almost winter, and snow in the forecast in the next 5 days. I think buying an axle will have to wait for now. At least until our shop is built and i can work on it in the warmth.
$800 per hub. Big price jump on the 10K axles. You can get short torsion suspension without an actual axle but I don't know if they come in 10 or 12K size. Do you want it highway rated (high speed) or just farm rated like other tow behind implements? I don't if it would require an inspection to be able to be highway rated. I know some trailers coming from the US to Canada have to be inspected by a 3rd party. Trailers from Lincoln and Miller for welders require it. Interestingly the gov't. wanted a Canada wide outfit to do the inspections and the only applicant that applied was Canadian Tire. What does CT know about trailers?? About all they do is see if the lights work properly. It's a joke. I think they also do some custom built/homemade motorcycles from out of the country.
That sounds like my kind of inspection if i had to get this thing inspected. but they wouldn't have a clue what they were looking at. . I was hoping to keep it legal for simple fact of the other idiots on the road. Doesn't need to be highway speeds. It's not going to be going slow, and probably will never see a highway. Just gravel roads. My neighbor still has those large combine axle hubs and tires. But the no brakes thing was kind of unappealing. If someone goes down a decent hill with that packer behind the truck, it will have quite the push without any brakes.
I wonder if you could have a hitch with a surge brake control and then run hydraulic brakes? That would work with any tow vehicle. The biggest issue is you can't back up very fast. My dad used to pull a trailer with surge brakes and there weren't any issues.
Not sure what your thread size is but these are about $40 not including tax or shipping. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/n...-8/locking-type~nylon-insert/thread-size~2-8/