what rolling equipment is better tracks or tyres currently we have a case 1840 mainly on concrete,gravel and soft/disturbed sand as well as a small amount of clay it is constantly getting bogged in the sand on our property are tracks any better? wondering if getting a tracked machine would reduce this problem the machine also sees a bit of use in a concrete floor environment is this bad for the tracks or is the abuse the same for tracks and tyres on concrete advice ideas and options appreciated
Tracks will be the best option.
does concrete harm tracks or the track life though? what track machines have similar power output to the 1840 and are ether the same height or smaller as we work in sheds which limit total machine height to less than 1950mm(6ft 6inch) however the shorter the better
Just remember , tracks are a lot more expensive to run
Just a suggestion, I've never used them but what about the tracks you wrap around your wheeled skid steer? They may give you the best of both worlds.
the machine is used on a small farm and it probably sees about 100hrs of work a year so a set of tracks would probably perish before they wear out i have seen the over tire tracks but they would make machine stand taller and i cannot afford it to be taller i need the machine as low as can be
The Cat 247 or 257 would be my sugestion for farm use the tracks are kevlar bound so when the rubber cracks the cords won't rust from manure or anything else. They are also prety small and would keep up with the 1840 mine will go in a rough opening for a 6'0''X6'8'' door with ease many don't like the asv undercarage but for low hours long life I think it would be the best they also have good speed for moveing around the farm. Also if loading height is not of consern a asv rc 50 or 60 has the same drivetrain but lower lift height with less operating weight making it more powerful than the cat from the ones I have seen and ran. I got 1500 hours on a set of tracks and then broke the frame and wiped out 17 lugs and had to replace the tracks. If that had not of happened I think I would have got close to 2000 hours and 8 or 9 years on the tracks useing it in residential construction and farm use. I figure around $10 per hour for track machine than tires but you are working with tracks when you are sitting with tires and no work means no money so I think tracks pay for them selves if work is steady. Good luck!
There are over the tire rubber tracks that seem to work well for some guys. At 100 hours a year I dont see it being econmically a good idea to get into a dedicated track machine. Solideal makes a set of over the tire rubber tracks, I am sure there are others as well. You might also look at putting larger tires on the 1840 like the 31X15.5's. These work great for soft ground conditions. I put a set on a CASE 440 for a muddy, messy job and they worked great, especially for what little it cost me to make the improvement. Generally I have issues with recommending dedicated track machines for noncontractors unless your loaded with money. Tracks offer productivity advantages over tires for operating in soft ground conditions (and zero advatages when working on hard ground, they actually cost more money to run). This can pay big for contractors, however the increased operating costs must be covered by the increase in productivity. Homeowners dont get paid so if it takes an extra two days to clear the back 40 who cares? Contractors who can save two days on a bid, thats money saved/earned. This is of course my opinion. Your mileage may differ. I would try and solve the problem by keeping your machine and adding OTTs or wider tires. Worst case you can always spend more money on getting a dedicated track machine.
the reason for the track machine is we are constantly bogged in our 1840 it has too much ground pressure and grind ability while turning in the soft disturbed sand, when on the grass above the sand it is fine but once you break the surface its all sad you get stuck then dig yourself backwards (more mess) over tire tracks would be good however we need the stance of the machine to be as small as possible to fit in height confined areas of our sheds and I no how hard it is to put on/take off over tire tracks when we need to reduce the height of the digger i have looked at tracked machines of similar power and ability to our case and it seems Bobcat t190 and ASV rc50 are the closest in physical size (they are actually shorter in height) but have the same power and a greater lift capacity and what i think are wearing a reasonable pricetag
what about getting a track system for the 1840 as in remove the wheels and get a track set for the 1840 opinions on these http://www.loegering.com/tracksystems/vts.asp
I would try the tires. I think you will be very impressed. The 1840 came standard with 10X16.5 which is a small tire. Upgrading to the 31's or 33's would make a huge difference. Heck just going to the 12X16.5 tires might be enough. The VTS is wide and takes a bit of power to run, the 1840 has 50 hp. It would be taxed running a VTS system. I am a fan of the VTS (had one on a CASE 440) but not in this application. Unless you just want a tracked machine.
the 31x15.5s what brand were they? what was the tread pattern like are they like a floatation tyre? do they fit on standard 10x16.5 rims? or with big ass tyres you need big ass rims
They were CAT brand and you would need rims. I bought tires and rims on Iron Planet for $600. The tires were near new. The tread pattern is the typical cross bar design. Even getting rims and tires is still cheaper than getting a new/used track machine.
We used to have a 1840 on the farm and it was a great machine but as you said - very limited use in sand and muddy areas. We then upgraded to an asv pt 60 track loader and there was a world of difference. The asv goes anywhere, even in mud where I would have trouble walking let alone drive in a wheeled vehicle. The suspension also gives you a great ride - I can do 12hrs a day without hassle. Wheeled skid steers crush your spine... literally, I know operators that won't touch a wheeled skid steer because of back problems. Traction is also much better also. If I had to guess I'd say the asv would be close to twice as productive as the 1840 when you look at traction, operator comfort, mobility, speed, etc. We have now upgraded to the terex 60 (same as asv 60) since terex bought out asv. The operators love the machine and it is the most used machine on the farm - doing more hours than any thing else.
I would not hesitate to go with the tracked machine. The reasons have mostly been stated. I own a Cat 287, and it works where and when any wheeled machine would just be spinning its wheels. I get at least twice as much out of it as any machine on rubber, and with the suspension on the Cat and ASV machines, the ride is hands down better that anything on wheels, or any other tracked machines. Sand, mud, slopes, grass, you name it and it will go there and work productively. asphalt and concrete are not bad if treated with respect, and if you can, spill some sand on it where you are going to turn to make things easier. rock and demo take a toll, but can be done with care. Once you do the same job with tracks, you will wonder how you ever got by without, IMHO
I recently saw a Bobcat T140, I think it measured something like 77" would be a great little track machine.
Here is a interesting article on tracks vs tires. http://info.summitrubbertracks.com/...nt-rubber-tracks-convert-from-tires-to-tracks
A person should just buy a VTS set off of eBay. Ever wonder why ASV/Terex auctioned off dozens and dozens of VTS sets and dealers are dumping them on the web? Could it be that they were never really that reliable or durable for other than limited work? According to a person I spoke to at the factory this is exactly the reason Terex doesn't even market the product anymore and they won't even approve the use of a VTS on their own skid steers. He told me that they will continue to support the systems in the field with parts but will focus on OTT.
If 'support' means keep charging more and more for parts and dragging their feet to ensure the parts get to a guy... I must be the only person who the VTS works for but they totally crush a CTL performance-wise. I also don't need a summer skid and a winter skid...
I can't vouch for what their (Terex's) parts pricies are for VTS, but I do know that Terex has never really impressed me all that much as company. Terex's puchase of ASV still puzzles me. I don't think that you're the only one that the system works for, but I specifically asked my contact at the Terex factory about how reliable the system really is and he stated that the warranty cost to sales ratio percentage was higher than their ASV undercarriage costs. I remember the buzz that the system created when it first came out touting how easy it was to switch back and forth between tires and tracks, but actually didn't see many operators in my area switching once they bolted the VTS on. This caused some issues with some OEM chain cases, axles, etc. and the OEMs quickly voided warranty so Loegering had to start selling their own warranty with the systems. I also thought that the operators that didn't "go back and forth" should purchase a dedicated CTL. The VTS also started to die off as all the OEMs came out with dedicated machines- Mustang/Gehl, CNH, etc. This is no VTS bash post, and I think there are plenty of customers that the system works for. But I think it reflects the reality that VTS was meant as nothing more than a "bridge" from a skid steer to a dedicated CTL, and Terex's virtual halt to marketing it speaks volumes of it's reliability and longevity.
I wasn't meaning to yell at you(still happy from the Packer game...), more upset at Terex and how they have handled the VTS. I have a theory that certain operating 'style' also works better with the VTS, meaning if you run it more 'smooth' and not slamming it around. I put the VTS on in the spring and don't take it off until winter. I also can go any where our little ASL goes, a CTL from my experience can not handle soft ground. I can see that the areas that don't have winter like up here don't need the 'part time' track system. I won't argue there can be issues with the VTS but the biggest issue I see, the OEM's probably hate the VTS as it takes away from their CTL sales. If the OEM's would work with the VTS some issues could be addressed but again they have no benefit to do so.
The VTS worked for me. I am glad I bought them on the net for a 1/3 of new price or I might not be as happy. As it was, they never cost me a dime to run (about 900 hours). I snapped one drive chain with them on which was operator error. CAT built a skid steer that was VTS ready. That was a big deal, it showed the issues they had/have with the MTL. However CAT was the only OEM to embrace the VTS, and I am sure that was grudgingly. I get why, all the torque running through one set of axles and chains its easy to see how it could be hard on a skid steer that was never designed for that type of application. However if you use your head, you can get mileage out of the VTS. The ride is better than any CTL, however I am still happy with my dedicated CTL over the VTS at least in this early portion of my CTL ownership.
Sorry to appear ignorant, but what is VTS? Is it an over- the-wheels set- up? Just never come across the term before. Anyone got pictures?
Shane...I would count you and Stuve in a select group of operators who have a solid understanding of the impacts that the VTS would have/could have/has had on your skid steers. Both of you also traveled a wiser route by purchasing at a significantly discounted price on the web. Unfortunately, Loegering never sold operators on the increased costs to their skid steers. CAT built a VTS ready machine for their rental fleets until they could come up with their own CTL. I don't think you'll see any CAT dealer actively purchasing any VTS systems now that the CTL exists. I know my local CAT dealer here in WI can't run away from the VTS in rental fast enough.
Regarding tracks v tires, it's a no brainer that tracks will outperform wheels in soft stuff. Smooth concrete will not affect tracks, rough stuff will cut into the tracks but will also damage tires. However before blowing the budget on a track machine, I would try to lower the tire pressure to give more contact area.
Where do tires preform better than tracks? I could see a CTL in my future for some tasks like minor grade work and running high flow attachments. My main work is tree work and stump grinding, and for that I use a Gehl AL540 which is a fantastic machine, but more tractive effort (7900lbs), lift height, and high flow would be useful.
I suspect the question of which is better, tires or tracks depends on where (and how) they are being used. While I can see the value of a tracked machine over a wheeled machine in many situations, I do not believe it to be the case for me. But, I need to be sure. First, I have absolutely no skid steer experience with tracks or tires. I will soon be responsible for keeping a 1 mile stone driveway open which is anything but flat and the area receives a lot of snow. Because of the amount of snow received and some of the driveway areas being narrow, I want the biggest snowblower with the highest flow hydraulics practical. But, tracks verses tires has been haunting me. What I now believe to be the best solution is a wheeled machine with heavy duty chains on all four wheels. The reason for this is simple. Some of the steeper areas will get slippery/icy. I believe wheels with chains will be able to give much better traction by the fact that chains can dig into and grip the ice on this type of driveway. I suspect a tracked machine would just turn into a giant sled as it would not have the ability to grip the ice. I want to know if I am correct in my thinking. Or... would a different type of machine and/or configuration be better for this purpose?
I think your on the track (pun intended). I would go with wheels and chains. You are also correct to get the most HD chain you can find. Bridgstone makes a "Polar Track" for CTL's in the Winter, supposed to be pretty effective. Those would probably be necessary if you went with tracks. I have an 85" Erskine/Quick Attach snow blower that I use on a High Flow 465. Its been optimized to run a mulcher, and man it throws snow.
Track machines are far superior in soft conditions over a tire unit. On paved surfaces, tires are better. As mentioned already, tracks machines are more expensive to operate....some more than others. With what info your giving, I'd recommend a tire machine with a set of OTT's you can throw on when needed. Once you put the tracks on/off a few times, its quick & easy.
When the VTS system first came out, our dealers were saying a minimum of 60hp????? You must also be the only person that I've ever heard say that lol.
We run both types - all Bobcats as well , each has its own area to perform in. Tracks are excellent in soft conditions and are a lot smoother operating , but hard and rocky conditions eat them up fast. Tracks are very expensive to operate but the other side of using them is we never show up and have a flat tire to stop us from working. Solid tires are the way to go if you only are in soft conditions occasionally , then get a set of tire tracks for the machine. Tire tracks are easy to swap and take very little time to change , just make sure to keep them from running loose or they will eat up your tires. Another option mentioned is oversize tires , this is a great way as well.
I know most people, okay everyone would say that is at the least a provocative or crazy claim but from what I have experienced I feel it's true. I think it performs much like the ASV type undercarriage. From my experience the CTL's can't handle any soft ground like the VTS, the VTS seems to 'climb' up. I also like the extra length of track and width for stablity. For the record I did have a Mustang MTL16(CTL) for two years, and am still running a Polaris ASL(MTL) for nine years. I've been running the VTS for five seasons now. The last thing and I think this is important - I believe in the VTS system so maybe I give it more benefit of the doubt than most. It also allows me one machine for the full 12 months here, a CTL will not be productive in a full commercial plowing scenario. It would not have the traction or the speed compared to the oversized snow tires. Okay, last crazy thoery - I feel if there was a way for the OEM's to adapt and use the VTS instead of going the CTL(or MTL) route we all would have been better off.
ASV/VTS/MTL's dont hold up as well as CTL's (solid track machine) in harsher conditions. They all have their place though, and do something better than the other. I'm glad the VTS works for you...but you are the minority(by a long shot). We have a CTL with polar tracks that pushes snow great on a 20+ acre property. It uses a 8ft or 10ft pusher with no problem.....but with the oem tracks, it was difficult to be productive. I prefer tires for snow work.
One thing I wonder is also, I'm not racking up that many hours so that may be a big asterisk? I wouldn't say I'm in 'harsh' conditions also. As for snow, I agree with you that tires are king and much cheaper.
:salute
In Australia,the customers prefer the tracks since the track will not destroy grass .