I finally got to use my CT322 today for the first to remove snow. I have a large gravel parking area to remove snow from and it worked great. Only problem I had was that my lane out of the parking lot intersects perpendicular with a paved road that is on an incline. As I pushed snow out of my lane and across the road off into the ditch on the other side I packed down a thin layer of snow that got very slick. I did not have any traction issues running perpendicular with the slope. But I turned into the slope a few times to move some snow in a few places the plow missed, and had myself a couple rodeos. I found out very quick rubber tracks do not do well parallel on a slick slope, seemed to do ok sideways on the slope. It's not an extremely steep slope, but I had two scary moments sliding forward, sideways, and even backwards down the hill. Wouldn't be such a big deal except the sides of the road drop off about 30 feet on both sides as it crosses a big coulee. Anyways, long story short, does anybody have any tips for better traction on slick slopes with these CTL's?? I was contemplating going and getting a bunch of really short sheet metal screws and putting a few in each traction pad, but I dont want to risk ruining a couple thousand dollars in tracks. Any thoughts?
Slow and steady and don't spin the tracks, it turns the snow under you into ice. Going over the same spot like you were will also ice up an area because it packs the snow down. If I'm pushing snow to the same place over and over I try to keep it clean down to the base weather it's pavement or gravel surface, this is obviously easier if there is a good amount of frost in the ground. If there's ice pack under what you're clearing it's tough,move gone on a few scary rides sideways and backwards before and ended up with nothing more than a puckered arse luckily. There are some tracks that do better in snow and ice than the block patterns do, when I need to change my tracks next time I'm going to go with something like these... https://camso.co/en/construction/products/ctl-sd Here's an interesting comparison too....
Bridgestone makes a Polar Track (or at least they used to) that is good for icy conditions. The cross bar type tracks are better than the block type in the snow.
Bolts with large fender washers work better. Only need a few on each side to keep it from sliding. You just don't want to constantly spin the tracks as to rip the bolts out.
So do you mean you drill a hole all the way through the track and put a bolt through with a nut?? Or like a wood thread type lag bolt???
I'd try something like an i-grip track stud, but here in MD, we rarely get enough lasting crappy weather, to justify...
That was kind of my thought behind some hex head coarse thread sheet metal screws. And with the thread diameter being pretty small, track damage should be minimal if they tear out I would think.
I drill a hole thru the track and put the nut on the outside. With the bolt sticking out another 1/4 of an inch. I only put 10 or 15 on each side. You do have to use your head and not sit there an spin the tracks. There only purpose is to keep the machine from sliding. Doesn't take much. The track studs that DIYDAVE suggested are not a bad idea either.
Some of the screws WILL pull out and when they do they are guaranteed to find their way into your car tires. If using screws I like the dedicated ice screws vs. sheet metal screws.
as a snow contractor you probably dont wanna be pushing snow into the ditch across the street? You can get fined???? Polar tracks are great however 4-5k for a set and if you run them in the summer they will melt off!! we ran camoplast SDs as mentioned and are comparable and all season!!! But basically tracks kinda suck for snow work, just to much surface area....
Very good point, I did not think of this problem.
I live in a rural area in the county outside city limits, no fine issues to worry about. Thanks for the track info.
You could also rig up a bar magnet, to sweep for screws, if they pull out. I like the ones that are purpose made, they look like they will stay, plus they have a hard center... I wouldn't go overboard and load the track up, just enough to fo the job...
I have no experience with studs in tracks. But I think something like this would work good. http://www.maxigripicestuds.com/
Those look interesting, but now Twisted has me worrying about flattening my vehicle tire lol
I have installed 10,000's of dedicated ice screws over the years. They do occasionally fall out even when used for their intended purpose so I could only imagine they would be more prone to failure under a high load such as a SS track. Operating on hard pack snow and ice is a different animal than dirt. The more the tracks spin, the worse it gets. I would suggest changing the operating procedure for the conditions or use a bolted solution. Good luck.
Parking it and not doing snow is the best advice I have! I cleaned my storage yard and house driveway and that was more then enough snow removal with a CTL for me. So inefficient, and pays horrible at least here anyway it's not even worth it.
I would think if you could find something on this order in the right length you would be golden. https://www.denniskirk.com/woodys/1-075-in-mega-bite-carbide-studs.p080205.prd/080205.sku
Not doing it for pay, clearing my own property.
That looks like it may be a decent option.
I used the bolt through and nut trick on mine... It was the only solution that sort of worked. I was plowing my own 3km long driveway with my t300. Eventually I gave up and bought a dozer. Way better haha. Pro tip... Heat up a drill bit with a torch to punch your holes through.
So for the guys that run bolts, do you take them out in the spring or just leave them in year round?? I would imagine the threads a ruined and probably have to cut the nut of to get them out?? What diameter bolts do you use? Any additional track damage seen from this method? That's a long driveway coastal. I dont think my wife would let me buy a dozer, already got a payment on a $20k + skidsteer that's not making any money haha.
Yes, Cut the nuts off in the spring and get rid of them. I use 1/4 or 5/16 and only let the bolt stick out of the nut about the diameter of the bolt. Keep in mind they are not for more traction they are there to make the machine more stable and keep it from sliding!!
All I want is no more oh **** moments haha!
They will help with those moments, I'd have one hill I would get 3/4 up, run out of traction and slide all the way back down...so exciting! I cut mine out, it didn't seem to hurt the tracks, but I sold the machine the next summer and didn't test the long term durability. The ideal setup would be to heavily spike an old set of tracks and use them for winter tracks and just swap tracks for the season.
Just remember that if your plowing commercially, you will scar the asphalt. May not be a big deal, depending on the customers. I have seen customers with multimillion dollar homes get pretty worked up about having their asphalt scratched and gouged when using chains on skid steers. Just something to keep in mind.
Yeah that would be nice to have 2 track setups. I am still debating on whether on not I want to bolt it, or just get more accustomed with how it operates in snow. I have a better idea now what to do and not do. I am still concerned with drilling through the tracks, as I imagine they are like a tire with cords running through them and drilling through a bunch of the cords in my mind would compromise the integrity of the track. If I was generating income with this machine I'd be more inclined to do it, however this skidsteer is just home use not making me a dime and tracks are expensive haha!
you don't want to hit the steel cords going through the tracks, that would suck.
Kxnate, What kinda machine do you have? I have an ASV RC30, and it has no steel in the tracks. I still would prefer to use screws, just deep enough, to not go through the lugs. If you use a bolt, you also will want to line things up, so that the head of the bolt is not lined up with the UC rollers, that may stress both the track, and the rollers, unless the head is real flat, or countersunk...
Hi Dave, I have a 2007 John Deere CT322.
Another thing I tried was metal roofing screws with the rubber washer, they gave great traction but eventually pulled out. You need to use lots of them though.
I have a Cat 289D which came with the heavy duty C Block tracks which sucked in snow. I replaced them seasonally with the Cat medium duty tracks which have a z bar tread. Night and day for traction, even works on glare ice. Just don't try it on ice with a dusting of snow however, then you will need ice screws!
I have several hundred hours in the seat of a 277C pushing a 10' snow pusher doing parking lots for a local factory. I thought it worked very well but it is dead flat around here. We had a big FWA tractor for the heavy spots and used the 277 mostly for tight areas and close to the building. It was an entirely different technique running it on ice and hardpack.
Well we got about 6 inches of snow last night, I just finished clearing it all out. Things went a lot better today, I used several of you guys' pointers, specifically clearing the asphalt portions down better, and better track control starts and stops with better finesse as to not spin the tracks. No major rodeos today so thanks for everyone's input! I dont think I'll stud these tracks at this point in time, maybe whe they are due for replacement I may stud them and keep them as winter tracks, but operating technique definitely helped a ton!
I installed a set of the carbide studs from Clawm.com on my C190 and they work great. We had over 20" of wet snow in one of our storms earlier this winter and I plowed about 2 miles of hilly gravel road in about an hour. I had no problems with slipping at all even though parts of it had been driven on earlier and were icy underneath. I was worried because I have the big block type treads which I'm sure would be terrible in conditions like that, but with the studs I had great traction. And I'm in a similar situation as you Kxnate, I use my machine on my property and my neighbors for logging, road maintenance, moving dirt, and other chores, and I also have to be able to plow us out so we can get to work. Take a look at those clawm studs on their website. They're a bit pricey but are holding up well and have also really improved my grip for logging. I'm working on some pretty steep slopes and have much better grip now with the studs installed. And no issues so far with them damaging the tracks or ripping out. They are holding up well. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow.
I use shortest snowmobile studs...they come with a drill attachment...they can be put on quickly
We have a Case TR340 with C-pad design tracks - which are absolutely worthless in snow & ice. Last winter (2018-2019) was one of, if not the snowiest winters (and coldest) on record for us. As I was searching for ways to improve traction, I investigated snow tracks and various track stud designs. I decided to try the Grip Studs brand of studs (other similar brands like Marrkey are available on Amazon). These were among the moderately priced stud options. After a hard season of use, I can say that I was extremely happy with the traction aid that these studs provided. The design of these carbide studs includes a wide auger screw, which holds extremely well. I don't believe any of the studs released from the tracks over the winter. The other thing about this stud design is that, if they did come loose and fall out, the wide auger design seems less likely to find its way into an unsuspecting tire come spring time. The main downside to studs in general is that, when driving on cement, any skidding or turning resulted in a decorative etching embossed in the floor. Since we keep our loader inside during winter, and since we have to make a right angle turn (on cement) to drive the machine inside, the etching was hard to avoid. A work-around for this problem would include laying down rubber belting or plywood on the floor to protect the cement. Although carbide studs have their place and worked well for me, I am interested to hear more responses from people who use Camso SD tracks or other similar 'ZigZag' design track treads from other resellers. As well, if using these ZigZag tread tracks in summer, how do folks like them in mud? Longevity & etc. ?
Has anyone tried tire chains? The would need to be modified and joined together to make them long enough, also would have to be wide enough wrap around the edge of the track by 3-4". I don't have enough chains lying around to try it, I wouldn't want to by new chains before I knew that they would work. I'm sure they would have to fit snug or maybe have some type of clamp on the edge to keep them in place. Let me know your thoughts.
That looks interesting, I am curious how well they stay on the track and I bet they are expensive. No doubt they would lock up well on ice.
The pics are of a set of ATV chains that I have, I just threw them on there to see what they look like. They should be wider to keep them in place.