As i have limited experience with heavy trailers, i would like some opinions re which type of heavy trailer is better suited for my needs. Will not be for commercial use, will be a flat deck with removable stockcrate for cattle and also carting my own machinery between properties with the crate removed. Will be pulled with a 400hp bogie (tandem) drive rigid truck and woulde see a max of 10k km (6k mile) per year. Will also be purchased 2nd hand, so obviously limited in what i can find. Drawbar hitch type will be ringfeder, which for arguments sake will behave same as a pintle hitch. First type which will work for me is a dog trailer, fixed rear axle and pivoting front axle on a ballrace. I am limited on length to about 8.5m (28 ft) including drawbar, so will only find two axle trailers in that length. I believe you guys call them pup trailers? Tandam axle dog trailers are limited to 18ton (39700 lb) ATM. Dog trailer stockcrates require road-train gates to allow cattle to cross the gap between truck/trailer over the drawbar. Second type is a pig trailer, this has either a tandam or tri axle group in the middle of the trailer, all fixed axles. Tandam pigs are 15ton (33000 lb)ATM Tri pigs are 18ton (39700 lb)ATM Same length limits in place as for dog trailer. Pig trailer stockcrates if a fixed drawbar design suffer the same issue with the road-train gates, however pigs can also have a sliding drawbar design which allows the trailer to be backed up to a loading ramp and then the drawbar retracted and the truck backed up to the trailer to allow an uninterrupted trailer/truck deck. This negates roadtrain gates and would also allow loading of machinery across trailer and onto the truck, removing the need to unhook the trailer to load machines onto the truck. At this point in time weight capacity isnt really an issue, my heaviest piece of equipment is approx 8-9 tons. I have been told that a dog trailer tracks better and that a pig trailer is easier to back. I have extensively towed smaller pig trailers, eg boat trailers/horse floats etc and am very competent backing these, however have zero experience backing dog trailers with the ballrace. Most dogs are equipped with whta we call a dolly lock, which locks the ballrace, however im assuming that they are still very different to maneuvre than anything i am used to. I am confident i have the skills to master it, however i am concerned i simply wont ever get enough practice doing it so infrequently. Do you guys have pig trailers over there? Can offer any insights into how they travel? The sliding drawbar pig with the benefit of not having to unhook to load truck and also easier backing are appealing to me, however are also the most difficult to source second-hand. They also seem to be the oldest, i did find a sliding drawbar pig with crate, however the suspension was worn out and obsolete, couldn't get parts for it and couldn't even find anyone interested in installing new suspension for me. For completeness, my truck crate does have sideload gates, which negate have to back the trailer up to a ramp. HOWEVER, neither my local saleyards, the meatworks i deliver to, nor 2 of my 3 properties have cattle ramps capable of supporting sideload, so that shoots that out of the water. Dog trailers are relatively easy to find second-hand and i have a stockcrate that i made for a smaller truck that i could make work for a dog. But get back to the problem of not wanting to spend 2hrs trying to back into a ramp with a line of trucks waiting on me. How hard is a dog to back?
Well I learned today the difference between a "dog" trailer and a "pig" trailer. I'm ready for a trip down under. Just in case anyone else is wondering- here's pictures. I imagine the "dog" designation comes about/ is related to our terms of a "joe dog" which is the fifth wheel portion of the trailer. Because if you have a joe dog, you can have a string of "pups" which is how the trailers were referred to here. Here in the US, there's hardly any dog trailers, mostly all "pig" trailers- for the type of use you are doing. The only dog trailers are guys that are usually running doubles and triples. Soo- if I have researched correctly (and if I'm wrong, please correct this pony) Here's a "dog" trailer Here's a "pig" trailer
For that little of use of go with what you can find in the price you want, basically anything that fits your specs with good tires and frame, and cheaper the better. If your driving it every day you should be picky on a setup, if it sees little use be picky on the price
Yes---in the trucking world there is a semi load of slang--depending on which plot of continental soil your standing on. In the U.S. most of it came from central area of hillbilly-dom. No one out here on the left coast called it a Joe-Dog, never ever heard a dolly called that and it's what it is basically. * Bottom photo{two axle tag} top photo {three axle pull-because it has a fixed turn table} multiple trailers are all still pulls--when hooked in a series {a set of joints}. A train 40' lead with a 20' {pup}. and it's the only time any animal or critter terms are jumbled with trucking out here on the left coast.
triples = wiggle wagons. after that I got nuttin'
No your spot on Crane Op. I was going to post pictures as well but forgot. Not that it applies to my scenario, but just to be picky. A dog trailer has a non-removable ballrace on the front axle. We have what is a converter dolly or simply dolly, that has a fifth wheel turntable that is used with semi trailers for our doubles and triples. Truck Shop, tag trailer is something else again over here. A tag trailer has a single or tandem axle group at the rear of the trailer, not in the middle as does a pig. So if you guys are mostly pig trailers then they should track ok. Or are they tag trailers? Anecdotally that is the issue with pigs, they don't follow the truck as well as a dog, but i have no first hand experience of either. A tag trailer wont work in my situation for a variety of reasons. A dog is the easiest to find second-hand, as stated I'm sure I could learn to reverse it, but I'm concerned that I simply wont use it enough to either get or stay proficient. And also the more fabrication required for road-train gates to allow loading across truck/trailer. And unhooking trailer to load machinery on truck.
Dog trailer for sale not far from me, right length on airbags. I would need to modify my other stockcrate to suit. Pig trailer, sliding drawbar, perfect for what i wanted, obsolete suspension can't get parts. Tag trailer, no good, won't work. Dolly for semi trailers
A tag here is a tag--it doesn't come down to exactly how far back the axle is placed, it's any trailer with frame built tongue--no dolly. That is a fixed turntable--the ballrace as you call it is known as a German Ring in technical terms.
If you can reverse a dog trailer without a locking pin then go for that. It will save you setting 1 up.They are much easier on tyres and follow the truck better on the road .
Can you MC rate your rigid? Numerous options open up
Don't think so Cliffy, spoke to DOT at Farmfest about length limits and such. Got told that can tow a dolly, but not attach a trailer to said dolly. Also not MC licenced, only HC, not an insurmountable issue, just another hurdle. But even if I could, still come back to same issue of, am I going to get/stay proficient at backing dog type set up (which dolly and semi, would behave as), with my very limited usage.
Dog with a dolly lock is no issue to reverse. Pull up straight lock in and they track fine. You should be able to set one up if that trailer doesn’t have one. How bad is the suspension on the pig trailer? Pin the bush replacement?
Yeah mate, it's probably just fear of the unknown. I have absolutely zero experience with a dog, and as your well aware, you have to back in correctly to the ramp otherwise it simply creates much bigger problems. Again I have very limited heavy vehicle suspension experience, but the pig pictured was noticeably nose down and there was play in pins/bushes when moved with crowbar. Done my homework for a change and discovered (from memory) VA series BPW axles/springs. No parts available. Any experience with pigs, how do they track compared to a dog?
Only towed pig with bartlett ball setup with rear set axles. Towed fine but weight is half on truck so have to be wary of axle weights. We have a old dog trailer with a non locking turntable as a water trailer. Its a bitch to back. Very similar to the one you posted above.
Place I used to work for had two axles with a 5th wheel plate on them. The front of it connected to the tractor 5th wheel. They called those Joe dogs.
Keep practising ol mate, once you get the hang of they're a peice of ****. On the front of the trailer measure from the centre to halfway across and make a mark on each side. When you see it in the mirrors it becomes the point of no return. Steering them is opposite to a pig trailer. Simples.
Biggest enemy of backing a pull type is length of tongue, longer the better, plus a two axle turntable is way easier to back than a single.
Yeah I knew that applied to a pig, didn't know about a dog. Unfortunately with stockcrates on you need it to be as short as possible to facilitate the road-train gates allowing loading over drawbar gap. We are also limited to 19m (62.3ft) combined overall length, in this situation, which includes drawbar, so the longer the drawbar, the shorter your deck space.
Or set the turntable back some--no different that any 45' plus trailer here, kingpin settings are anywhere from 12" to 48".
With the dog type (haywagon) how do you put weight on the drives. Keep the bed loaded? That would be a pain way i look at it here in the coal country it wouldnt go so well
Out of the four photos I posted, three of them have a hinged drawbars, so no downweight on the ringfeder hitch, only the weight of the drawbar itself. Only the tag trailer has drawbar weight, therefore transfers part of the trailer load onto the truck. Tags usually also run a different hitch, usually a Bartlett ball. I'm not sure on tags, but dogs and pigs can't ever weigh more than towing vehicle irrespective of other weight limits. So I can't have a 2 axle dog loaded at 18 ton ATM, behind my empty bogie drive rigid truck, tare weight of 11 ton. Even though all individual weights are good as is the GCVM (Gross combined vehicle mass), trailer weighs more than truck, scalies would ticket you. Edit---Actually that is probably not totally accurate. I'm not a truck driver nor profess to be an expert relating to any of this i only know what I know researching stuff as it applies to me and a little bit of experience. But we do have what they call quad dogs, which have tandem axle front and rear, which are towed behind rigid trucks. These are usually tippers and would have to exceed the 19m length limit and also the 1 to 1 weight limit. But they operate under some sort of PBS (i think it called) exemption scheme. But for the average Joe Blow like me, what I first wrote does apply.
Rode by a drywall, metal stud, sheathing distributor today and while stopped at the light saw they had a "dog trailer". Single rear axle flatbed with a single axle front with a drawbar. The front axle appeared to oscillate. Without this thread I wouldn't have known to call it a dog trailer.
I was under the impression ranchers down under loaded "pots", that's what we call livestock trailers in America, from the side, and not the rear.......or is this just sheep trailers??
Half true. It depends on the location. Side loading is more common in areas that run multi combination(road trains). Areas that run single and ridged usually load from rear. (South and coastal areas)
I stand educated. Thanks
Cliffy's right although it has changed a bit. Most rigids with new crates these days have side load and pull out horse ramps. As I stated earlier the issue is that neither my local saleyards, the meatworks I deliver to, nor 2 of my 3 sets of yards have loading ramps that will allow side loading. In hindsight probably a waste of money getting the sideload gates, although I do use the horse ramp a bit. That picture is when the truck was new, about 100km on clock. Truck still looks good, but crate paint has faded and cattle **** and **** has tarnished the polished alloy parts of the truck.
In America it's a pull trailer with fixed turntable, can be 2 axle or 4 axle.
Perfect for CO he likes horses. *
What is that metal thing over the lower part of the windshield for?
low flying roos.
Low flying stones
Don't know if they'd slow a roo up too much, might help if you got wedgetail eagle coming at you. But Tones is spot on, called a stone guard, I would say the majority of cabovers that get onto dirt roads have them. I reckon mines got a few dents in the last trip, with all the rain we've been having, the mosquito's were pretty big.
Trucks like the ones below are a perfect windshield catchall, mainly because of airflow at high speed. A small rock or gravel will surf the airflow over the nose and make contact just above where hood meets glass, then a crack starts going up through center. Usually caused by following to close. *
Have found a sliding drawbar, tandem axle pig trailer with stockcrate that I'm going to have a look at in a few days time. Spring suspension. No photos yet. Apart from cracks in frame, obvious damage etc. Any tips to avoid buying a lemon. The last one I looked at was built in 1984, so luckily I done my homework and checked because suspension was obsolete and could no longer get parts. This ones a bit newer but will still check same. Anything else?