Working on a 1900Z with ZF transmission, hydraulics work, When I move electronic shifter I can see pressure on the dash drop then come back up after gear selected. I checked solenoids, they all are 62 Ohms. unplugged, It looks like I have 24v going to three solenoids, I can not find sequence for this to verify correct or not. I did not see any metal when I drained a little from the sump. Looking for any knowledge out there.
Is your shifter a DW-2 or a DW-3?
Not sure, it is 24volt, four forward (up) three reverse (down) style of shifter.
Hello Frankhaddad, guess it is a ZF 4WG 200 or 180 tranny. But doesn't matter. See attached pdf's for solenoids and pressure ports. br Bigbert
I didn't realize you were looking for tranny info, the tag reads 4WG-120, don't know if it would be different? Thank you for the info!
The shifter it's self should have a label marked DW-2 or DW-3 but Bigbert gave you the right info. either way you should have three solenoids hot in first gear. m3 m2 m4 in forward and m1 m2 m4 in reverse. Looks like the tranny. run the test in the second item he sent you. Good luck
Thank you guys for all the input, I will run the tests Monday if I can't get to it tomorow.
It doesn't matter it is a 4WG120. Same control System. However really old versions got 4 solenoids. From approx. 1987 5 solenoids .
This one does have 4 solenoids.
I do not have a 4 solenoid schematic with me currently. However : Two hoses need to have pressure for drive. Feel with hand. If not there is an issue on electrics or hydraulics.
Does your shifter look like this?
This is the electric coding of 4 solenoids control
No, I have never seen one like this, forward is lever up, away from you is higher gear, reverse is down, neutral in between.
Thank you, will test soon.
Hi, I'm new to the forum so forgive me for hijacking this thread. feel free to redirect me if needed. I'm working on a o&k trojan 1900 with the deutz engine. I have the 4 solenoid valve body and same shifter as described in this thread. This machine has to be revved up quite a bit and then it will slam into gear. first is most noticable. when pushing it has very little power and the engine has to be on the floor or it will drop in and out of gear. engine runs great and main hydraulics work fine. would the main hydraulic filter affect this at all? or just the small transmission filter? thoughts anyone? having trouble finding a manual or any repair info as to where I should start.
Hi Dustind. .. This sounds like dragging brakes. Brakes getting hot after some drive? Residual pressure on brakes? Is there pressure in two hoses from control valve to tranny housing? When pressing gas pedal further down do you feel engaging gear? Main filter change will not help, rather tranny filter. Could get you more details on ZF tranny via email . 4WG120? br Bigbert
Thanks bigbert. Brakes are fine, no heating or anything . Also tried jumpering the brake cutout switch to eliminate that. All my solenoids have 24v to them when put into the appropriate gears and all are moving although not very much it seems. Have a trans filter on order. If you keep your foot in it after it drops out of gear it will continue to reengage but very Sharply. The machine has always needed quite a bit of throttle to get the drive to engage but lately is almost unuseable when hot. All that's left of the tag says 448 and 617 below it. I'll check the hoses next. Email is [email protected] . I appreciate the info!
Well at idle I have one hose that's quite hard, one hose that seems fairly firm and the rest are quite squishy. There is no change on the hoses when different gears are selected.
update, new trans filter did not help.
Big Bert I could really use some help if you have time reagaurdingba fiat fr12b with a 4wg-120 transmission problem my email is [email protected] or 218-760-0525 glad to pay for some help
Hello Conkle, What kind of shifter is fitted in loader? Is there a TCU Box like EST17T or EST 25 fitted? Possibly share some pics on [email protected] Will share a Manual for 4 WG 150 (very similar to 120) soon. Regards
I have the old electric shift here is what I have going on the every thing test out with the controller good at the solenoids but soon as I start the machine I have no neutral neutral goes forward I am so lost here when I step in the clutch cut out pedal there also is no neutral
This is my shifter
Hi Conkle, this is the antique famous DW1 shifter, see attached file. Hope, your shifter is equipped with this kind of connector "AMP". There were a few shifters with round sureseal connectors built, but shipped very seldom. Hope this helps.
Thank you so buddy unfortunately I have the round connector plug do you have any idea what might be my problem I have no neutral function at all when I put it in neutral it drives forward when I step on the declutch pedal it goes Into forward forward 3rd will go in reverse. I will pay for help here I’m at such a loss and our family depends on this machine anyone that understands this type of transmission have a number I can call ya at ?
Hi Conkle, please see attached the wiring of the round connector. "AS" means engine start inhibitor (with gear lever not in neutral engine must not start). I'm afraid there is a short somewhere from gear selector to control valve. Please check signals from gear selector, then signals at connector t/m, then remove cover of control valve to check cables to solenoids. Good luck.
Thank you do you happen to have the diagram to the clutch cut out
The pressure cut off was usually wired up like this: Wire from selector to solenoid M3 (F) and wire M1 (additionally to M3 in R) was lead through brake switch. Closed with no brake pressure, opened with approx. 30% of max brake pressure. For neutral whether M3 nor M1 must have power. M2 and M4 with 24 V is K1, only M4 is K2, no M2 and no M4 is K3. Only M1 is K4 which also drives F.
If you where to take a guess buddy could you think of what direction to send me in my friend ?
I have a 1985 1900Z with a similar problem. It will barely go in either direction until it is warm, probably takes 20 minutes before it will do anything more than a crawl. However it will move full speed for 5 or 10 seconds when it first starts up, even when cold and then comes to a stop for several minutes. If I shut the machine off and start it again it will move fine again for only a few seconds.
Hi Todd, are you sure the wheels are spinning free, no draggingof brakes?
Sorry I have been away for so long Just a refresher her. Fiat allis fr12b Transmsion has no neutral at all. Neutral is drive. some times there is mo reverse until you shift it to forward I believe 2nd or 3rd once you do that it will go in reverse then from there yiu can shift it into reverse and all reverse gears will work. But still no neutral all neutral gears are act life a forward gear if you step on left pedal it will also act like a forward gear no neutral. I have been told it sounds like a spring in valve body is broke ? I have tested the shifter all the solenoids are working correctly. I also bought 2 new solenoids and switch some around just trying stuff. Still no change. I have used it as is for about 40hrs of run time and all gears are strong just gears reverse sometimes don’t go in with out shifting or to forward 3rd it derives in reverse in toward 3rd then you shift it to reverse and all reverse gears work all neutral gears act like forward gears. And all the wiring to solenoids are correct and verified. I also bought all the repair manuals service manuals and wiring diagrams. I’m so confused and need guidance I have every manual everyone may need of and one needs just hit me up
Hi Conkle, just to be sure, the FR 12B got a ZF 4WG120 as far as I remember. with shifter DW1 (big thing) or DW2, smaller. Did you get a manual for this tranny? Else get me your email address and I send you. Are you able to fit some pressure gauges on control valve to check clutch pressures? If solenoids are fired properly and pressures do not move when switching shifter (and solenoids), there is something wrong in control valve (broken spring, dragging spool, debris etc). If pressures change according scheme I'd rather expect some issue in clutches. Not neutral means loader moving forward? KV and K4 are forward clutches. Dragging KV or K4 piston might create force to forward. Shifter DW1 in neutral always got pressure in K3. shifter DW2 in neutral got K1 in pos. 1, K2 in pos 2, K3 in 3 and 4.
Hi All, I have a 1900 Trojan that always ran out very well but all of a sudden it's sluggish. It moves forward and back but very slowly. Any suggestions where to look? The emergency brake is not engaged...
Steve, does it shift through all gears? Or just in 3rd/4th forward? 3rd reverse? Which transmission? ZF 4WG120? Which shifter?
Hey Bigbert, It will shift through the gears, yes. It just falls on its face when it does. No power. There are 4 forward and 3 reverse gears. I'll be at the machine at 1pm. I'll get the tranny and shifter info then. I really appreciate you responding! Sreve
We jacked the entire machine up and the tires were still sluggish.
The numbers we're getting off of the transmission are: 4642406152 and 1B-288 87 and ZP3
Hi Steve, I'll get you a manual of a 4WG150 in a PN. Yours is a 4WG120, pretty old, guess a 4 solenoid version. See page 24,25 in manual. Does your control valve look like shown there? 4WG150 is same as 120 tranny, got bigger clutches.
Hi Bigbert, Thank you very much for getting the manual! I really appreciate that! I'm hoping to work on the Trojan again tomorrow. I'll keep you posted on any progress. Thanks
Hi Bigbert, i am having a problem with my 1900z. I have the same controller as Honda Steve. I have no 1st/2nd forward gears and no 1st/2nd reverse gears. I do have forward 3rd/4th gear and reverse 3rd gear. The trans is sluggish in those gears I will be checking the oil level. machine did sit for quite a few years. The parking park operates as it should. As read this thread and i see you talk about a brake Switch with air lines going to the trans. Could you send me a diagram for both the Trans and that brake switch that you are referring to. Also, i have to jump the starter at the starter itself to start the machine. I am not sure where or if this trans has a neutral safety switch built into the gear shifter or not or in the trans itself. Any help would be much appreciated Thanks Doug
Hi Doug, please check your conversations. Assume CCO system doesn't release forward and reverse clutch in 1st and 2nd gear. Pressure switch underneath brake pedal faulty.