This thread will document what needed to be accomplished to repower a 1989 Trojan 1500Z with a rebuilt Cummins 4BT with 130 HP. The engine repower will net a additional 37 HP over the Deutz F5L912. The original Deutz is a rebuilt engine (2006) that had a rod knock when I purchased the loader. Took the engine out and the crank was ground for -.20 rods and -.10 mains, new rings, bearings and new rod/piston. Had a Cummins Reviva 4BT and a rotary pumped 6BT sitting in the garage. The 4BT was scheduled for installation in my 1942 G506 (1.5 ton Chevy) however I will be using the loader extensively and decided to install the 4BT in the Trojan 1500Z. As with any repower, it’s never a straight drop in and bolt up situation. New metal fab and parts are always part of the process. To start with, need to see what is at hand and where we need to go. The 4BT is equipped with a SAE #2 flywheel and flywheel housing and a 10 spline 14” clutch. The Deutz F5L912 has an SAE #3 flywheel housing. The transmission is an Allison TT222-1 transmission with an SAE #3 bolt pattern. The Allison flexplate consists of 3 separate plates that are center mounted to the transmission torque converter and the 8 outer bolts mount to the flywheel. The 4BT starter is retained. The first task is to mate an SAE #2 4BT housing to an SAE #3 transmission. C and C Truck Parts offers an SAE #2 to SAE #3 adapter ring for $75.00. Others want as much as $550. The Deutz flywheel is flat and the SAE #2 Cummins flywheel has a recess for the 14” clutch. Sent the flywheel to the machine shop to mill off the ridges for the clutch and provide an index for the flexplates. With the mating and coupling issue solved, here are some of the known items that need to be addressed as the project moves along. Fab new motor mounts for the front and rear of the 4BT Fab mounting bracket for the transmission oil cooler Add Cummins gear driven air compressor for brakes Fab, find install radiator and coolant lines to engine and air compressor. Fab brackets/mounting for radiator Add air to air cooler Deal with other details for electrical, throttle, engine shutoff, etc Paul
Very interesting thread, I'll be tuned in. These kinds of swaps always throw some curves that'll test your patience. It should make a nice loader in the end. No air conditioning?
If there is any thing I can look at on mine and let you know let me know I would be more than happy to help. I don't know if mine was a repower or if it came with it but if I can help let me know
d9gdon, What is air conditioning ??? Where is it located on a Trojan loader? Since winter is on the way, I'll be looking for heat. Don't seem to have that either. Got the flywheel back today. Going to replace the rear bearing seal just because it is open and good insurance. Wife was going into town so I asked her to stop by Napa and pick up some 10 X 150 X 30mm studs. Counter man calls me to make sure I want studs. Wife gets home and hands me 8 hex head bolts. They need to hire a few more 18-19 year olds with 20 years experience. Now I'll loose an hour plus to make the trip in to town, use 3 gallons of gas and just to buy less than $8.00 worth of hardware. I want to get the flywheel together and install the engine for a test fit. Instead of starting in the morning, it looks like now I'll start late pm. Ordered a Bendix Tu Flo 550 air compressor for the 4BT. It is a direct mount engine driven unit. The 4BT, 6BT and the 6C all have the same gear drive. Don't need the power steering pump. Loader has all of the other required parts for the air system. Paul
Tdam, Can you take a pic of the motor mount setup on your Trojan loader? Would save me a lot of time to get an idea of what works. If all goes well tomorrow, I want to set the engine in the hole, couple the tranny and block the engine in the position it will be at when finished. Need to find the rubber mount portion for the engine and transmission as well. They are completely worn out. The difficult part of the fix is that the OEM mount is moulded into the bracket and attached to the transmission. May have to fab these as well. Also a pic of the set up for your radiator and air to air if it has it. If your engine has the Cummings label on the L/H side on the timing cover you can find your HP rating. The original F5L912 Deutz had 93 HP on a good day. Your Cummings s/b at least that much or more. Your tranny is most likely an Allison TT222-1. Paul
Here are some of the pics I have cant seem to get all of them from my phone to my computer. Mine had AC and a heater that came in to a unit that sat next to the right side of the seat when you are in the cab but the compressor has been removed it must have been on the top of the right hand side of the motor. You can see the black mounting bracket in the one picture. The last picture shows the engine mounting bracket that goes from one side to the other at the bottom of the engine to the 2 rubber mounts that bolt to the frame. I know these are not the best pics if they don't help at all let me know and I will try to do better
Thanks for the pics, they do help. The motor mounts look like OEM Trojan that are currently not available. I need to get the loader up and running--have a ton of work for it. Paul
Paul, Take a look at this link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-vibration-damping-mounts/=u1xzw8 Might be something there that would work.
You may find some parts you need without reinventing the wheel off of these machines that have been dismantled: http://www.machinerytrader.com/list/dismantledsearch.aspx?ETID=3&Manu=TROJAN
As I get older (and because I own mostly old, outdated stuff) I'm finally appreciative of the older counter-man... Someone who actually knows what I need or can open an actual parts book to find stuff, not "is the gas cap on the left or right side? Huh, my computer doesn't list it"
Do any of you guys know what oil should be in the Allison TT222-1 and how much? I would say by looking you are right chansey about what tranny I have. What I don't know is why my 3rd gear has no power at all and why when shut off the tranny dip stick reads full and when running in neutral warmed up there is nothing at all on the dip stick. I have no idea what is the right way to check it.
Chansey, What kind of bucket do you have on your loader? Sometime if you have time if you have a picture of the bucket I would like to see it. I am trying to get a GrabTec grapple fork for mine but I cant find a model number on it. Mine is a JRB clam shell that was welded shut and had new sides, bottom, and cutting edge installed as well. Thanks
I think this might be the service manual for your transmission It shows as TT2221-1, did you miss-type the model? ftp://38.106.177.129/gopettibone/forms/dealersold/vendor-archived%20service%20manuals/allison/Series%20TT%20TTB%20TRT%202001%20Service%20Manual%20SA%202003.pdf Or if that one is way to long: http://************/nfqmkgx
kshansen, Thanks for the link but after looking for the TT2221-1 I don't think is right. I have 3 forward and 3 reverse gears in my Trojan 1500. So I need to find the tag on my tranny. If I am wrong sorry I am still learning I know pickups and tractors but not Trojan Wheel loaders. But thanks for every thing
YuP Left the 1 out of the number Thanks for the correction I'll post some more pics tomorrow Paul
Tdam, Do your have the Data Plate info for your Trojan? Any idea of the year model? Paul
Trojan loader Pics Bucket --tag missing Paul
All I know it has a plate on the dash it Trojan 1500 and SS #. I know the cummins motor is a 1988 100 hp 4BT from the tag on it. Now a question can the oil from the tranny leak into the hydraulic oil? I am almost 100% sure that the site window where you check the hydraulic oil is bright red now and it wasn't before. Is so that would explain why my tranny is low every day but I cant find any oil leaks on the outside of the machine.
Tdam, Do you know if you have a "wet" flywheel housing? Other than that, the engine oil and trans oil have no relationship. Do you have a "combo" oil cooler where 1/2 is for transmission and the other for oil? Paul
Paul, It looks like the tranny fluid is going into the hydraulic oil. On the right side of the machine I have a sight glass for the Hydraulic Level and it has turned red. Engine oil is fine. I have put I think 5-6 quarts of oil in the tranny and after it sits over night it reads the same every morning. I thought that there was a hydraulic pump that ran off the tranny but I might be wrong I have been so dang busy I really haven't took the time to look better. I do know that if I put a couple of quarts in the tranny in the morning the tranny seem to work a lot better and the oil has to be going some where. Thanks Trevor
Trojan Transmission Tdam, Does your transmission look like this? This is an Allison TT2421-1 and there is a link between your transmission and the hydraulic system at the external hydraulic pump. Seal blows and you have the condition noted. This pre-dates the Allison TT2221-1 While you are checking your machine, take a look at the output drive on the transmission and the driveline. Almost impossible to find one if it is a mess. Worked on one several years ago. Paul
I try and look in the morning. I know it looks something like that. The thing is my tranny has one lever that is your forward, neutral, reverse selector and the lever is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gears. So I have 3 speed forward and reverse tranny.
Tdam, Do you have a photo of the side view of your loader?
Here are some pics of the preinstall prep Rear main seal replacement After the main seal was replaced, the flywheel housing follows The flywheel was reinstalled. Had a little light rain and you can see the outline of the flexplate. The flywheel was machined flat and the 8 mounting holes were added to accept the flexplate. This is an SAE #2 housing and 14" flywheel. Paul
OK so I Finally found a tag on the tranny. this is what is on it. Clark Model 11.2HR18347-6 SERIAL JUSA32398 I don't know why my pics showed up the wrong way.
Tdam, The trans is a Clark-Hurth 18000 series and now owned by Dana Paul
Thanks cor the info. Is that better or worse than the Allison? I know less about the Clark transmissions than the Allison's.
There are also two versions of the Clark-Hurth transmission. A short drop and a long drop, the short drop was more commonly used on smaller equipment. Clark and Hurth transmissions have been around for a very long time and are as good as any other. I've had this transmission in several tractors and loaders. On another issue, look closely to see if your loader had a ID plate on the drivers L/H side. Mine has on there and it lists the loader as a 1500D. Go figure ..... Paul
Reviva 4BT Ran into a little snag today. The SAE #2 to #3 would not fit as intended. It was from a military truck and of course they do things differently. My AutoCad 12 is not compatible with windows 8.1 so had to install AutoCad 15. Took 3.5 hrs to install. Took the dwg to Choice steel to have one cut from 1/2 plate with their super CNC plasma cutter. Had to buy a 4' X 4' X 1/2" plate and one adapter was going to cost $275. If 4 of them were cut, cost was $315, so I'm having 4 of them cut. Don't think the current project will be my last one. Wife says I owe her 17 more years so I'll be 86 years old then. Received my $200 air compressor today. Removed the power steering pump to see what I had to work with. The oil supply port for the injection pump was fed from a tee with one side capped. Installed a 90 deg 1/4 flare with a swivel female X 1/4 flare male I had in the garage to get the oil supply line away from the block. Tomorrow I'll get a hose that is 1/4 X 1/4 flare female and the air compressor can be permanently installed. Fits just fine under the injection pump with easy access to all of the ports. Just had to bend the dip stick tube slightly in order to reinstall it. Need to make a cover for the rear of the compressor as it is equipped to mount another accessory on the back of it. The compressor also has a support bracket installed. Need to make a bracket that mounts to the block and air compressor. This is the original power steering pump This is the timing cover opening to accept the air compressor Engine oil supply Test fit of the air compressor Air Compressor supply port More pics next week when I get my adapter plate. Paul
Had a thought, I'd like to add one more horse power but don't know how to get it to work well for this project. The saddle is large and doesn't fit. Anyone have a XXX full quarter horse saddle? He's 17 hands and 1480 lbs, in tact and just a sweet as he can be. Never bucked when he was 3 yrs old, just let me saddle up and now that he's 4, he can't wait to get out. Paul
Is the ID plate the one on the left side of the dash cuz all mine says is 1500 or is there a plate on the tractor. I have a 1500Z maintenance sticker but that could have been put on by any one at any time. Are the Clark Trannys hard to rebuild? I still think my 3rd gear is week but I still want to dump all the fluids and all new filters. My tranny I am sure is a long drop. I don't think my loader has been used much at all the last 3-4 years I know it was a city machine somewhere in California before it was brought to Nebraska a few years ago. For the age it seems like it was well cared for.
Had a setback this week. My JCB 1700b blew a head gasket and been dealing with trying to find a replacement head as the one I have is cracked. I was able to get a few things hooked up on the 4BT. View attachment 125737 View attachment 125739 Called Wabco for a part # on the compressor cover--they sent one free of charge View attachment 125738 Connected oil line to compressor and routed oil dip stick
Received the flywheel housing adapter. Not clear on the photo, however all 24 holes are center marked by CNC plasma Had a new turbo oil supply line made up. Old one just didn't look good Ran new JIC hose for water supply & return lines. Don't have to worry about clamps I will be running an intercooler on the loader. Air in & out will be 3" aluminum tubing, picked up a 10' stick for $18.00. This is just a mock up. After the radiator and intercooler are installed, the engine is ready to go. Need the backhoe for installation. Anyone have a head for an AG Perkins 1004.40T ???? Paul
Got a couple of hours in on the 4BT, to get as much as I can possible do since by backhoe is down and I am unable to get the engine in the Trojan loader. Here are a few of the items I got done today. This is the Wabco cover that was sent to bme Cover installed Had a difficult finding the exhaust adapter for the turbo. Since it is metric it has to fit properly. Found it in a heavy truck exhaust supply house. This is the rear support bracket for the air compressor. There is an OEM part that mounts to the block and attached to the bracket. Didn't want to waste the tine to go to town so I decided to make one.
Trojan Repower with 4BT Layout for the bracket Didn't want to rob air from the engine so I will be installing this Kabota air filter to provide air to the compressor The air outlet on the air filter is 1-3/8" and the inlet to the compressor is 7/8" so I purchase a 1-3/8" exhaust coupler and cut one side up the pipe 1-1/2" and the cut perpendicular to the pipe to form a Tee. Used a long socket with a body to fit inside the air compressor casting and then placed the socket inside the pipe. Used ball peen hammer to shape the reducer and mig welded the pipe. Polished up the weld and painted it. Works well. Paul
Does anyone know a part number for the donut gasket and adapter ring for the compressed air discharge on the turbo?
Had an issue with the turbo exhaust as the turbo is different from most as it has a 22 degree bevel Found the proper flange for the turbo exhaust. It's a Cummins oddball as the turbo exhaust has a 22 degree bevel on it. Grand Rock Co makes the proper flange part # T321-2 and the Breeze clamp Part # 1V0321D02 fits just right. The tube is 3" and you can increase size if needed. The compressed air discharge on the turbo is another issue. Searched Cummins Quick Serve and found the following parts: Turbo Compressed air Flange 90 Flange 3918800 2.75 X 3” 90 deg Clamp 3069053 O-ring 3919852 http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...d-e4e2-44a8-8e65-cff553a895fb_zps00e27785.jpg Cummins had only 2 flanges in Germany at a cost of $647.00, O-rings at $27.00 and the clamp at $33.00. Found a individual who parts out bread trucks and has a flange for $50.00. Drew up the O-ring on CAD and took it to a local gasket shop. Got 5 rings for $5.00. Need to be careful with the material for the O-ring. Vitron is questionable at 400 degrees whereas red silicone is stable well above 400 degrees. http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...2-6a3f-47e0-963f-5e8b0d8a9edd_zps97ddf473.jpg Additional photos http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...a-e8aa-4129-b72e-28272e1ce733_zps6669df4f.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...4-db60-42f2-905e-f9dc6d8bad03_zps94191398.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/sancobg/HoseMockup_zps0a9be2c5.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/sancobg/AirFilter_zps8192c50f.jpg The 4BT was going into this G506 http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/sancobg/G506-2_zps4d5318b0.jpg to create this priorities changed based on need to clear some land. Paul
Had an issue with the turbo exhaust as the turbo is different from most as it has a 22 degree bevel View attachment 125904 Found the proper flange for the turbo exhaust. It's a Cummins oddball as the turbo exhaust has a 22 degree bevel on it. Grand Rock Co makes the proper flange part # T321-2 and the Breeze clamp Part # 1V0321D02 fits just right. The tube is 3" and you can increase size if needed. View attachment 125903 The compressed air discharge on the turbo is another issue. Searched Cummins Quick Serve and found the following parts: Turbo Compressed air Flange 90 Flange 3918800 2.75 X 3” 90 deg Clamp 3069053 O-ring 3919852 http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...d-e4e2-44a8-8e65-cff553a895fb_zps00e27785.jpg Cummins had only 2 flanges in Germany at a cost of $647.00, O-rings at $27.00 and the clamp at $33.00. Found a individual who parts out bread trucks and has a flange for $50.00. Drew up the O-ring on CAD and took it to a local gasket shop. Got 5 rings for $5.00. Need to be careful with the material for the O-ring. Vitron is questionable at 400 degrees whereas red silicone is stable well above 400 degrees. [/URL] Additional photos http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...a-e8aa-4129-b72e-28272e1ce733_zps6669df4f.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums...4-db60-42f2-905e-f9dc6d8bad03_zps94191398.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/sancobg/HoseMockup_zps0a9be2c5.jpg http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee520/sancobg/AirFilter_zps8192c50f.jpg The 4BT was going into this G506 to create this View attachment 125906 priorities changed based on need to clear some land. Paul
4BT Reviva Update Been waiting to install the engine, but still have not found a new head for my JCB backhoe that I need to install the engine. In the meantime I have been working on little things that will help eliminate some of the work after the engine is installed in the Trojan loader. The 4BT SAE #2 flywheel housing did not come equipped with the usual inspection hole so I had to make one so I can access the torque converter and flex plate bolts. With the hole drilled out, you can see the flex plate Continued
4BT Reviva Turbo Tubing Since the charge air cooler showed up, I decided to mock-up the radiator with a card box and fit the 3" hose and tube to the engine. Picked up the wide clamps at a military surplus store for $2.00 each. Couldn't let a good bargain go by so I purchased 30 clamps. Much better than the the narrow clamps you get in a kit or auto parts store. Scored on the tube to, $18.00 for 10 ft of aluminum and $5.00 for 5 ft of 3" stainless. The installation will be pretty straight forward. Don't have the radiator in hand as yet. The box is 6" and is up against the fan and air cooler. Will probably be enough room for all the components without having to move batteries or rear panel. The motor mounts will have to be worked out as well after the engine and trans are coupled together. The trans mounts will be replaced and some automotive mounts that will work similar to the unavailable OEM units. Paul
Haven't made much progress on the loader repower. Other pressing needs arise. Head on my JCB 1700b cracked and had to find a replacement. Took 5 weeks to locate 4T.236 LJ Skid steer was having starter issues. Took it in & rebuild was $187.50. Worked for a day and quit. Starter would spin and seemed to have torque, however it would not turn over the motor. Took it back to the shop. Pickup the starter 2 days later--replaced field coils--no more problems. Actually burned them up during testing. Had interesting situation with adapter ring SAE #2 to #3. Had to buy a 4' X 4' x 1/2" plate to cut just one ring. Fee for cutting 4 adapter plates was $25 so I had 4 cut. I figured I'd use a drill press because the center spots were provided by the plasma cutter. Didn't work out well due to drill drift and was off just enough that the ring would not go on the housing or torque converter . Took a 2nd plate to the machine shop. Center plasma cut hole fit perfectly on the index for the converter. Made 2 pieces out of 1" round stock to index the plate on the table. Moved X-axis from hole center to the opposite hole until it lined up. Rotated plate and doubled checked everything. Clamped the part on to the table. Used OEM dims to find center. The digital readout on the mill allowed for an array of 12 holes @ 30 deg. Drilled the first hole and continued by going back to the 0.00 ref. There were 3 holes that were slightly off as the drill came down. It come to to a choice of trusting your own layout or that of the CNC plasma? Trusted the layout and drilled away. As you can see, it was the right choice and it fits as it should. The engine and all the hardware is ready for installation. Now its a matter of available time. Paul
Hey Paul, fancy finding you here! I've read a lot of your stuff on CF. I found this thread in searching for possible swaps into a Case w9 wheel loader. Years ago, I was told that a cummins swap was the way to go, but I'm still searching to see if the original bell is a SAE or if it's CASE only. Spun main bearings several years ago, and been sitting in the shop ever since... I loaned it to FIL, and wasn't aware he needed to keep an eye on the oil, and running up and down the gravel pit ramp at a steep angle.. well, guess what! Overall, the machine still good shape, good tight converter, loader pins and bushings good, bucket edges are basically new. and the brakes are still working! They are hydro vac brakes. Steering, well, it's kinda a white knuckle ride.. I did pick up a rebuildable 401 case engine, last year for scrap value, but before I dive into this, I want to see if the cummins would work first.
Rancherman, I'm always working on something no matter what it is. This $3,000 loader is worth saving and the Cummins 4BT is the right choice--parts availability and more HP. I have seen a lot of Case equipment with the Case/Cummins engine in them. Most likely it is an SAE 3 since most early equipment had the smaller transmissions in them. An easy way to tell is to look at the bolt pattern. If it has 12 holes and are EQUALLY spaced, it will be SAE. If it is something else, less holes, one hole will be odd-ball for indexing or the pattern will vary. I bought a 1996 Scat Trak 1700C (now Volvo) that had been sitting for years and was in pieces, engine would not turn over and had a few parts missing such as an oil pan, radiator, oil cooler and drive cover plates. Original oil pan was a 90 lb cast iron monster. Called everywhere trying to find one and no luck. Made one from a standard 4.236 engine. Added 2" to the depth and a few more mounting holes. Got the engine fired up and reinstalled it. Used an early 70's Ford brass radiator for $35 that fit the opening and bought an EB special Hayden oil cooler for $60. Had to draw the missing 1/2" plates on AutoCAD and had them cut on a CNC plasma cutter. Fit perfectly including the holes that were also plasma cut. I like the fact that I can make the drawing, take it to Choice Steel, down load the drawing to their system, program tolerances and a day later I have my parts. Added fluids and fired it up. Ran extremely well and hasn't been touched since. Have replaced the starter and two hydraulic hoses during the 1,000 hrs plus that I have used the machine. Best low $$$$ purchase I have ever made. I really like the float function for cutting and leveling. Total investment is about $2,700 and my free time. Took about a month working in short 2-3 hour spans to complete. Paul
Just in case anyone was curious about the skid steer here's a few pics Looks good now, but when purchased, it was disassembled. Head was installed and torqued down Only item lacking is an OEM type air cleaner The radiator and cooler look OEM Radiator is brass and 4 row Made bottom support from a Chevy top core support and fab'd side mounts No problems with heat The door was bent so badly that when it was in the closed position, there was a 12" gap at the top A little heat and some pulling got it to fit perfectly New latch from Volvo dealer was only $76 Not too bad for a piece of equipment that was ready to be scrapped Will be getting new paint and decals in the spring Works all day and only uses about 1 gal of fuel per hour Paul
Thanks Chancey. I need to get a few more things unbolted, and 'see' what's what! Cummins are pretty easy to find, and cheap, plus PARTS are still available! I have my choice of several NA 6bt's (good runners) for less than 1500. I'd have at least that into rebuilding the 401 Keeping it 6 cylinder should help too with the 'counterweight'. I'll REALLY need to get the steering up to snuff, the cummins will turn about 500 rpm more than the case engine, road speeds will be 'interesting'..
Keep in touch if you need anything Where are you located? Paul
If you're concerned about it spinning too fast, it's very easy to set the high idle speed on either the VE Bosch rotary pump or the inline B model pump. There are screws that restrict the throttle arm movement. Probably better to do it in the governor, but that takes a shop and money.
Chansey, I'm in Nebraska Shimmy1, Good idea on limiting rpms, even with the limiting screws on the throttle arm. I'd think I'd still be in the powerband of the engine. I think the original engine was 80-85 hp? The cummins @ 3/4 throttle should be close to that. Funny, the last year or so it was running, I'd go down the road backwards. It was the only way to go in a straight line. LOL< really don't need more SPEED!
Hi All, Finally got a chance to get back to the Trojan/4BT install. My skid steer had 2 Hyd Hoses blow and the skid steer was getting hot. Replaced the hoses but had to do some trouble shooting to get to the bottom of the over heating issue. Took the fan off then the pump. Held the impeller in one hand and turned the shaft with the fan pulley attached. Impeller turned but there was no pressure or turning on the pulley. Took the pulley off and couldn't believe what I was looking at. The Pulley has a pressed bearing with the bore keyed to fit the pump shaft. The keyway and half of the shaft was gone and no key found. In essence, the fan was turning but the pump shaft wasn't. Couldn't find a pump locally so went on EB and found a new complete pump and pulley for $116. Put this experience into the knowledge bank. Don't assume anything. Need the skid to hoist the motor into the Trojan. Did a test install for clearances and found that the only obstruction was about 1/2" on LH side on the starter flange. Need to cut some of the support post to clear the interference. Will do this in am and will be able to start on motor mounts, radiator and air cooler. Lots of room to for everything else. Absolutely need to get the Trojan running ---- lots of work backed up. Trying to sell my JD 450 so I can buy a motor grader. So far I've only had chain kickers and low ballers. Told them I want to sell the JD not give it away. I guess they don't know the value of a 90% undercarrige and a 6-way angle blade. Will post pics soon. Paul
I remember in the past consulting with a Deutz dealer about the availability of some lower end parts for something that I was working on and was informed that he did not stock parts for whatever I might have potentially needed because they never needed them because they do not break.I never forgot that and I do remember seeing a lot of them when I was in Germany in the army,we had a grader from sub-post with an air cooled V8 Deutz diesel in it and I always admired it.
Back Again ..... Got a good 4 hrs in today on the test fit of the engine. Oil pan clearance is about 1". Had to grind a small amount of material from the torque converter housing bolt holes to clear the head space for cap head Allen bolts Here are a few items I still need to: 1) There is 1/2" gap between torque converter drive plates and flywheel. Will fab a 1/2 thick spacer to fill the gap and connect to flywheel 2) The starter wiring will have to be moved from right side to left side 3) Adapt cable & hardware for throttle 4) Fab mounting plate for trans oil cooler 5) Fab mounting Brackets for radiator 6) Fab support bracket for air cooler 7) Fab engine motor mounts 8) Connect misc electrical wires 9) Add a whip line extension & valve from oil drain plug so oil can be easily changed Pic shows grinding for bolt head fit Fitment issue for starter Post cleared for starter The blue ring is support for flex plates-- gap from flex plate to engine is 1/2" Will draft in AutoCAD and have a ring plasma cut and engine can be installed Engine sitting in place The items that need to be done are typical for any engine re-power and are not unexpected. The issues encountered are really quite minor for a project of this type. The build for the motor mounts is not difficult, just time consuming because you have to work with the items already in place. The engine fits extremely well with plenty of room for installation of the radiator and air cooler. The batteries do not have to be moved. All sheet metal will be OEM without modification. Next week it should be ready to fire up. Happy camper ...... Paul
During the test fit of the 4BT, I knew that there was going to be a gap between the flywheel and the flex plates on the torque converter drive plates. Just didn't know how much. The gap was 1/2" between the FW and plates. Drew this up and took it to the local steel supply house to have it plasma cut. Having 3 made just in case there is a need in the future. Only the inside and outside diameters will be cut. The 10 holes will be spotted by plasma and cut on a vertical mill. Depending on how true the plasma cut is, the inside ID will be machined. Last time I had this type of work done, it was absolutely right on. Motor mounts will be next. Part will not be avail until Friday, so we' can just wait for the paint to dry. Paul
Yeah, on the tugboat I engineered on for a time, they had German Reintjes gears, to rebuild them they had to be removed from the boat and sent to their repair center.... but they claimed they were million hour gears so the boat would probably self destruct around them before they failed/wore out. LOL
Got my flex plate to flywheel spacer a day early (late pm today) which will give me time tomorrow to have it drilled and possibly install the 4BT less the motor mounts which I will have to fab after the engine is in the loader. The air cooler and the radiator will be an easy install because there is ample room for both. The bolts for the flex plate to flywheel are a real pain to get out. I'll chase the treads and oil the bolts so I can hand tighten as much as possible. Having paws like a bear doesn't help either. I'll have some help Saturday and if we're lucky we may even get it fired up. Unless something really unexpected comes up, the loader will start earning it's keep by next weekend. Paul
Cummins 4BT Repower Trojan 1500Z Wheel Loader The 4BT is officially installed in the Trojan 1500Z. The 1/2" thick spacer plate was just what was needed to get the torque converter plates to fit flush with the flywheel. The housing was tight at the support post These pics were taken prior to leveling the engine. Fab of motor mounts doesn't look too difficult. The rest of the install will be re-routing of cables and electrical wiring, install of radiator, air cooler and all the other misc odds and ends remaining. Will post a few more pics along the way, but the install is basically complete. Paul
Finally had some time to work on the loader today. The spacer that was made to make up the gap between the flywheel and torque converter drive plates fit perfectly. Made the front motor mounts today. Used some spring perches from a heavy truck that were L-shaped for the lower plate. The engine came with "shop fab" mounts attached to the engine. Made them work with the pieces I made up. Used mid-90's Dodge 2-piece cab mounts for the motor mounts. Works great as the lower half goes into the lower plate and protrudes about 3/8" above the plates. The upper half has a molded-in steel [late and a recess where the protrusion nests into. I have used these on other installations and the work exceptionally well. The Trojan OEM transmission oil cooler would not fit in the position where it was installed for the Deutz. Even if it would have fit, I would have had to add a cooling fan because the Deutz had a sheet metal air duct supplying air. Stopped by a heavy truck parts salvage yard and picked up a oil cooler from a C-15 Cat engine. I just need to run water to the cooler. The tube bundle has large castings on both ends that mount to the engine. I have removed these and will be modifying the tube bundle by machining bell ends with bolt tabs to tie the bell ends together to keep them from leaking. I'll attach photos of them fab parts later. Tomorrow the radiator and air cooler go in and then all I have is electrical and we'll fire it up. Paul
Had a few hours today to work on the Trajan Loader 4BT Conversion Mocked up the air cooler in the loader today. Thought that the 3"x 90 deg elbows would not clear the hood and structure. Finally got it to fit with about 1/2" clearance on each side and 3/4" from the radiator. Started to work on the oil cooler. Removed the BIG pieces that bolt to the engine block on the Cat C15 oil cooler. These are mounted to the block and hold water from leaking by using 4.25" o-rings on each end. Pressure holds them together by mounting the assy to the engine block. Since the one for the loader will be a stand alone cooler, two end caps were used along with the Deutz hose hardware and welded them to both ends. If the cooler ever fails, it's a throw away. Need to fab a mounting bracket and run water lines to and from the oil cooler. The oil supply and return on the cooler are flange type similar to the type used for a thermostat. The fab will include a flat plates, gaskets and fittings to match the Deutz hoses. Had a water radiator hose in my odds & ends bin that fit the top return perfectly on the radiator and engine. The bottom hose will require a 24" pipe, two 90 deg ells and a reducer. Have good clearance for the fan and hoses all around. I was going to post pics tonight but I left the camera with the loader. Just have to wait one more day. Getting closer to firing it up. Paul
Progress Pics Original motor mount that was installed on the engine. Reused this portion. Completed motor mount using heavy truck suspension L-bracket and Dodge cab mounts The radiator mounting flange was within 1/2" of the loader frame and was able to use 1-1/2" angle iron to mount to the frame and to the radiator flange on both sides. Fast and easy attachment. That's a $35 1970's Ford brass radiator. This is the OEM Deutz transmission oil cooler. I was not able to use it, just could not make it fit behind the engine and cab. Removed the fittings for reuse on Plan B oil cooler CONTINUED
Trojan Loader Repower with Cummins 4BT Part 2 This is what a Cat C15 engine oil cooler looks like. It is held together by a 1/4" thick o-ring that fits into the housings. When installed, the housings apply pressure to the oil cooler to keep it from leaking. I had to figure out what to do with it to make it work. Decided to blank off the ends with plates and install the OEM fittings so that everything would bolt up like the original. No other changes required. Still have to blank off the oil supply and return and weld fittings to it. The completed assy was mig welded and leak checked--one pin hole !!!!. Need to come up with a mounting bracket of some sort. This repower has been hassle free. Nothing that was not expected. Things to do yet; Fab lower radiator hose Fab mounting brackets for air cooler & connect Run air lines to compressor Provide filtered fresh air to air compressor Fab lever assy for throttle. Injection pump is now on the opposite side Electrical re-wire & change over to 12 volt system Not difficult, just takes time and since I am retired I just work on it as the weather permits. Paul
Managed to complete a few Items today Mocked up the lower hose. Need to work on this The air cooler hose clears well. The fabricated upper support is seen on the cooler Fitted the intake hose to the cooler. Need to cut a longer aluminum tube to complete Made a lower cooler support bracket from plate and 1"X1" angle This is the upper support made from 1/2" sq tube and plate Will have a few hrs tomorrow to work on a support bracket and chase parts for the throttle linkage and then electrical. Not going very fast, but the craftmanship is ok and functional. Paul
Nice work and thank you for sharing with us.Ron G
4BT Lower Radiator Hose In post #65 , noted that I needed to work on the hose problem to make it look like it came with the Trojan loader Here is what one person did and seems quite proud that he was able to solve the problem .... 7 clamps no less !!!! I will try to do much better. Paul
Maybe you could use some single wire hose that is used in boats. It's flexible won't kink or crush. I've used it on allot of my old equipment.
It it were me id use some pipe have a muffler shop bend it for me and just use rubber hose on the ends
Thanks for the suggestions The radiator outlet is 2" and the engine outlet is 2-1/4". I agree that a formed tube with short nipples is probably the way to go. Picked up some material yesterday to make a bellcrank lever assy for the throttle. I was able to re-route the cable from the pedal over to the LH side so that I can reuse it. As with any project, it's the little things that eat your lunch. Paul
Progress Update Finished up all the cool air tubing and connected it to the turbo. Looks good. Finished the the throttle linkage and just needs to be bolted in place. I found 2 Gates hoses that end up parallel to the radiator. Need to fab a tube with 90's at each end and cooling system is complete. Need to fab a support platform the the transmission oil cooler and plumb it in to the engine block. Last but not least, the electrical, it's all straight forward. I leave the electrical to the very end. You can always reroute wires as needed and not have it in the way when working on all the permanent things. Was gonna post pics, but I forgot to take the camera with me. Will have to wait til Monday to post. Wife gave strict commands that this weekend was hers no matter what. I guess that Cupid fella has a lot of pull, at least more than I have. At this point I am a day away for firing the loader up. I wish I could say I was extremely excited to be so close, however this has sorta been routine throughout my career as a Plant Engineer. One large machine failure after another, if parts are not available, redesign or fab what needs to be done and move on to the next. After ntthe loader, I will be working on my Honda VTX 1300 trike. Has a Champion diff and frame section. It was involved in a crash, no forks or any thing up front. Have a Sportster fork assy to mount on a 7 deg EZ Tree and Harley spoke wheel and tire. Had to cut the frame in pieces to get the motor & trans out. Purchased a new frame and mounted the engine and trans in the new chassis last winter. Want to ride this summer Paul
"I will be working on my Honda VTX 1300 trike. Has a Champion diff and frame section. It was involved in a crash, no forks or any thing up front. Have a Sportster fork assy to mount on a 7 deg EZ Tree and Harley spoke wheel and tire. Had to cut the frame in pieces to get the motor & trans out. Purchased a new frame and mounted the engine and trans in the new chassis last winter. Want to ride this summer" How about doing a topic in the TGIF section here on the Trike build?(Rebuild?) One word of caution about trikes, being a three track vehicle if there is something like road kill in your lane you will almost definitely going to hit it with one of the three! That's is one advantage of sidecars, like mine, as long as it's not too tall you can straddle it between the bike and the sidecar! After this Trojan repower the Sportster front on a Honda should be a weekend job for you!
I took "kshansen" up on the suggestion to post the trike build on TGIF on the form. It is titled, Honda VTX 1300C Trike Build. You are welcome to follow along. I still have another pending project and that is a build on my G 506 1-1/2 ton truck. The 4BT that is in the loader now was supposed to go into the G 506. This is what it looks like today. Have stripped it down to just a chassis. I have a complete 1996 Chevy 3500 HD that I want to use as a donor for the running gear. Engine will be either a 4BT or 6BT with an Allison and 4X4. This is what I am aiming for when it is completed. Paul
Here are pics from last week. This is the lower radiator return hose installation. Looks OEM, plumb, square and only 4 clamps. Throttle linkage to connect to 4BT cable and loade throttle pedal continued
Part 2 The air cooler install is complete. Overall I am pleased with the final fitment. Things still left to do Connect throttle cables Make mount for oil cooler Connect water line to oil cooler Connect air discharge hose to air compressor Electrical wiring Add fluids and fire up Will not be working on it for a few days. Drafting drawings for a commercial remodel. Paul
That army truck is a cool machine.That would be from a generation before mine,world war II stuff like the old command cars.That stuff was sold as military surplus and used in my generation,born in '41 and grew up watching them as log trucks during the fifties going past my school during the day on the way to the mill.That was excitement in those days. We had four grades in one school with less than 20 kids in the whole school with one teacher for us all.Ron G
Ron, Thanks for your nice comments. Both the wife and me wanted something unusual for our Sunday ride-- the G 506 will do it. I'm not a "purist" when it comes to vintage vehicles, especially military vehicles. Just to get the chassis to some decent state would be in the mega bucks. The cab has a wrinkle at the top of the rear window and the left fender has a small chunk out of it. There is only one rust spot on the truck, just forward of the passenger side where the floor meets the outer skin panel. Paul
Years ago when I to be active on the "Allpar" bulletin board there was a member there that had an old 3/4 ton all restored with A/C in it and as I remember everything else was original.That really brought back the memories.The only time I ever got to ride in one was during shift change while on guard duty but I shall never forget it just the same.Thank you Paul for providing the pics and commentary of your projects,they are greatly appreciated by most of us and we look forward to them.Ron G
I was able to get a few hours of work in today. Fabricated a "U-shaped" turbo exhaust elbow Fabricated a support bracket and base plate for the transmission oil cooler Fabricated a bracket to mount the throttle cable from the foot pedal Tomorrow I will tie up some loose ends and fire it up Will post pics tomorrow after it is running. Paul
How about a YouTube video?
kshansen I'm just an old man keeping himself busy so that I don't have to worry about what I could have done when it's too late. You tube video .... naaah, I have more projects to complete. On the Trojan repower, finished what I had left and fired it up. Took 45 minutes to get the air out of the fuel system. Runs great and no smoke. Did run into a minor snag, the oil drain plug must have been bumped along the way because I have a major oil leak. Lucky that I have enough room to pull the pan without removing the engine. Here are a few pics of additional fabricated parts. continued
Part 2 The exhaust is not connected so don't get too excited if you see a turbo elbow pointing up. Just didn't want the exhaust in my face. Need to get the hood on so I can set the exhaust tube. Here the linkage is connected to the throttle cable and the oil cooler and hoses connected. The wire was used to hold the fuel shut off in the open position while bleeding the system The loader has a rear panel that was used to support the fan housing and air cleaner on the Deutz. When installed it fit almost flush against the air cooler. Had to cut away 80% of the panel to get air to the air cooler and radiator. All the original mounting tabs remained the same. The air intake filter had to be turned 180 deg to fit the turbo intake on the LH side of the 4BT. Only had one glitch on startup. Had an oil seep on the turbo oil line .... I left a full turn loose. Not bad for all the hoses and couplings that had to be added. All of the OEM fittings on the loader are metric and so is the ID of the hoses. Converted as much as possible to JIC flare for ease of obtaining parts locally and not paying 4 times as much from a dealer for metric. Tomorrow after the oil pan is pulled and fixed, I will be trying the loader out. It wasn't a fast engine repower, but I only worked in spurts as time permitted. I hope that what I posted may help someone else who is planning a 4BT repower of older equipment. I'd love to show you pics of black smoke, but there isn't any ... burns clean as can be. A week ago I was in Espanola, NM to view the remodel I am designing and ran into a friend of mine. He has a heavy truck and equipment service and we always end up talking about diesel engines. I had a John Deere 4039 that he was storing for me and he asked if I was interested in a trade. He suggested a straight across trade. The JD engine for a complete running 6BT. In a nano second I said yes, let's load it up now. The 6BT is home sitting next to another 6BT I traded for some tires. I will post a few additional pics of the rear panel modification and the hood installed and then I will end this thread unless someone has questions. Remember that the only critical part of this repower was the adapter plate from SAE #2 to SAE #3 and the flexplate spacer. The flywheel housing adapter can be avoided if you start off with SAE #3 parts from the beginning. The engine came with an SAE #2 housing and flywheel so I used them. The spacer will still be required. The rest of the work is primarily re-using what you have and make it work with the Cummins 4BT. Paul
My mind was reeling trying to figure out the plumbing on your induction until I gave up and read about what your next step would be.I love to watch things get done in sequence instead of oh,oh,we should have done this first.You should patent your work there,maybe market a kit for it.Does Cummins know about you?LOL.Ron G
Ron I should have been more clear about the turbo intake situation. The OEM air cleaner had the air outlet on the wrong side to work with the 4BT as well as the rear panel being up against the air cooler. The mounting brackets for the air cleaner have been removed and will be rewelded so the the air cleaner is flipped over so that the outlet is on the left hand side. I also have the Kabota air cleaner for the air compressor to install. Didn't want to rob air from the engine. You are correct about doing things in sequence. I usually start with the gear train (engine & transmission mounting), engine hard parts, moving or actuating parts, oil lines, air and water lines and finally intake and exhaust. Tends to work for me. Didn't have to re-do anything after it was installed. Installing a 6BT would have been a nightmare on this loader. Its just too long for the cavity. The Trojan 2000 and above have a driveline to run the torque converter and much more room. Stan, a friend of mine, converted his Trojan 2000 to a 6BT about 12 years ago and is still going strong. The machine is a beast. Paul
I don't know how bad the weather is in your area, but here in central NM, it dropped down to -1 deg from 45 deg the previous day. And to top it off, it even snowed. we got 2 feet at our door step. Paul
That is funny Paul,thanks.Ron G
Ron My daughter says I have a sick sense of humor-- Paul
Good one Paul. LOL. I have followed this thread with interest for a long time. I have done a few re powers in old "toys" and you go about it in a good logical order. You have done a very clean job. Congratulations. I normally have to redo a number of things because I put the cart in front of the horse. Pictures of the old girl working would be great and welcomed.
old-iron-habit Been gone since Tuesday on a trip to Texas--1910 miles round trip. Didn't hit any weather on the way out, but on the way back it was a blizzard white out from Amarillo to Albuq. Ice was really thick. You'll have to wait a few more days for more pics. We really did get two feet of snow and I'm very tired. As for the 4BT repower, I'd do it again in an instant now that I know what needs to be done. Much easier to gather the parts up front and just go do it. This was a lot of figuring out what to do to make things work and still make it look like it was intended to be there. Besides, I have the AutoCad files for the adapter and spacer. Anyone know where there are any Trojan loaders just waiting to be brought back to life ???? Have 2 6BT's just waiting to give new life to some idle iron that's worth saving. Any late model Trojan 1900 or 2000 will do. I'm interested in a dead motor grader as well. Thanks for the comment on workmanship. Paul
Trojan Loader Repower with Cummins 4BT Fuel Injection UPDATE I know, I haven"t posted more pics, but I will as soon as I replace my camera. I don't believe Samsung did a "drop test" on asphalt. After all the minor items were finished, I started the Trojan loader and drove the loader 6 miles to a property I am working on. Parked the loader and returned the next day. The loader tried to start and quickly died. Tried to start many times and had the same result. Started trouble shooting; Injectors were dry, no fuel Checked the lift pump and had fuel at the filter and injection pump inlet Fuel tank was 90% full No fuel or air leaks Loosened the fuel overflow valve, stroked the lift pump and had fuel flow Shutoff solenoid was wired open Tightened everything up, primed the lift pump. Engine started and ran for a few minutes and died. Retraced the earlier steps, engine started and then died again. Something was causing the injection pump to starve for fuel. Checked the fuel filter. It was new and very clean. Backed up to the lift pump. Removed the fuel feed tube and blew air back towards the tank. Clear and free flowing. Removed the lift pump plunger body. Good seal and good suction. The body of the lift pump where the fuel inlet is attached there is a large nut attached to the housing that holds the check valves. Removed the nut and could't believe what I saw. There is a debris screen in the housing and it was completely full of trash. I had checked this when I installed the engine and it was 90% plugged up with dried fuel residue when the engine was in a step van. Cleared the debris and reassembled everything. Ran for a few minutes and died again. The debris screen was plugged up again. Went through this several more times. Removing the tank was not something I wanted to tackle. Had a Parker filter housing & filter in my stash of goodies. Installed the filter ahead of the lift pump to trap the debris from the tank because there is more debris still in it. I'll drain the tank and see what comes out. Did a little replumbing and took a while to get all the air out of the system. Fired up the loader and ran it under load for about 5 hours. Had very good power, however I noticed that the engine RPM would vary at times. Removed the overflow valved and inspected it more closely. The ball had some pitting and could cause it not to seal, resulting in the injection pump pressure to drop. Since I have two 6BT's in the garage, I pulled an overflow valve and installed it in the loader. Problem solved. Since I don't like robbing parts from a good engine, I wanted to replace the overflow valve. Called the "Stealership" and was told it was not available. I asked, "What's the fix?". Reply was, "Buy a new injection pump". You've got to be kidding me !!! A quick search on EB revealed that the overflow is readily available from $35 to $150 depending on where it is sourced. This just goes to prove that if you don't troubleshoot and find the cause of the problem, you can spend a lot of $$$$$$ changing parts. Now that all is good with the loader, it's a real pleasure to work with it. Since the loader has good power, I can set the bucket for a 1" cut with the bucket and cut really flat until the bucket is full. Looking back, it looks like the cut was made with a motor grader. This has been one heck of a journey, but I like the results. Yes, there were a few challenges to overcome, parts to be made or modified and definitely tested my troubleshooting ability. Time for a little rest and on to the next project. The loader is a keeper for sure. Paul
Good one Paul! Glad it's running good now. Don't you love it when someone thinks nothing of telling you to buy a new pump or other part for hundreds or thousands of dollars when the real problem is a $50.00 part?
Big smile here,thanks for taking us along with you.I have a lot of P&S cameras here if you need one,cameras that you would miss but would not cry if you dropped it.Ron G
I hope that I have made a contribution to the knowledge bank for those individuals that don't work on these motors very often. The two items I last noted are overlooked most of the time resulting in the replacement of a lift pump and in the case of fuel pressure loss, buying a new injection pump. These two items are just not discussed as "routine maintenance" items. I don't even want to think about how many people have gotten shafted by their trusted "Stealership", after all, they are the experts and were are just stumps in a forest and don't know any better. I must be "very old school" because I fix things and not just change parts, although in the end some parts will need replacement. For many people, having to buy new parts is a very hard financial loss and sometimes they just can't afford the repairs. In the end, the fix may cost me $50, but on the wrong side of this it could have been many thousands of $$$$$. I just can't believe that the "Stealership" would not support their product. They would have taken the pump, replaced the overflow valve and sold it as a "reconditioned pump" for $1,500 plus installation. Thanks for the input Ron and KS and to the 8,000 visitors that have stopped by to see what is going on this forum thread. If just one person benefits from my posting, it's well worth the time and effort. Paul
I for one appreciate any information that people post regarding repairs that were made and solutions to problems they've encountered. Nice work on the repower. Any chance you post a picture of the location of the offending valve? Thanks
4BT Injection Pump D2B These two items can cause real headaches and frustration. After correcting the problems noted, the 4BT starts immediately. One or the other of these conditions can be the cause of hard starting. Here are the pics requested This is the overflow valve location. It is on the inboard side of the engine at the front of the injection pump toward the fan There are overflow replacements that are adjustable so that the fuel pressure can be controlled for performance This is also the location for installation of a pressure gage The debris screen is located inside the body of the lift pump. Paul
Just one more item as far as bleeding the system after it has been opened. When you are finished with you maintenance tasks ..... DO NOT CRANK THE ENGINE Step 1 Loosen the banjo bolt that connects to the injection pump that feeds fuel from the filter. Stroke the plunger on the lift pump until clear fuel is flowing--no air bubbles. This may take a few seconds or a few minutes, be patient When you have only fuel flowing, tighten the banjo bolt Step 2 Loosen the banjo bolt on the overflow valve 2 to 3 turns Start stroking the lift pump again to clean air from inside the pump Once clear fuel is flowing, tighten the banjo bolt Step 3 If you had fuel trapped between the injection pump and the injectors, the engine should start quickly If your injectors are dry, it may take 30 seconds of cranking to get the engine running It takes a while to get all the air out so let the engine idle for a few minutes. If you get good throttle response, you are good to go Paul
Thanks for taking the time to post that.
Been a while since I promised to post some additional pics of the loader. A lot has happened since I last posted. Yes, the Trojan loader is finished and has been working extremely well, Couldn't be more happy with the results. No overheating, no leaks and plenty of power. Since this was an automotive engine application, there have been no issues with operating the loader. Since the loader is unlike a backhoe or tractor where the power level is set and the governor compensates for load variables, the loader is always acceleraing and hifting gears. For this application, no govrnor change is required. After about 15 hrs, the transmission oil cooler tube burst internally and contaminated the coolant and transmission. The raditor flush took care of the engine, but the transmission was a real pain to get flushed out. The oil was almost white when flushed for the first time. I added 4 gal of fresh oil an additional 3 times before it was clean. The new oil cooler is an aftermarket 15 row unit and a 9" cooling fan. Initially I ran the loader without the benefit of a fully functioning electrical system. I had avoided working on the electrical because all of it had been butchered by the previous owner. I split the wire harnesses apart and connected as much of the OEM wires as were available to the components that were required such as temp, pressures, lights, ignition, etc. The rear of the loader was completely stripped as wires wre cut, or shorted out. Using an inexpensive wire tracer ($17.00) which generates a tone into the wire and a proble allows you to follow the wire and locate its source as well as all the branch circuits. I also added work light to the loader. A neat little trick to keeping harnesses and wire neat and clean is to ise inexpensive tubing for protection. In this instance I used 1/2" irrigation hose for harnesses and 1/4" hose for single wires. I also used uninsulated butt splices on single wires and then used shrink sleeving to protect the splice. This allows the harness to fit inside the 1/2" hose. The reason that the wire butchery took place was the a wire bundle containing 15 wires was cut by the frame at the swivel joint and was not detected because both ends were not visible. After splicing the harness, 50% of the issues were resolved. Continued page 2
Page 2 The brake switch had been abandoned and a switch and plate had been added to the brake pedal. Tested the OEM switch and it worked fine. Deleted the kluged add-on and restored the original. The reverse backup switch was in-op and they had added a switch/lever to be activated when the transmission was in reverse. I left it as it was. Since I had debris and rust particles in the fuel tank, I installed a Parker housing and filter as a trap to keep debris would from entering the fuel pump and clogging the screen. I don't like using rubber hose with clamps where suction is involved so I installed a 3/8" hard line from the tank to the filter and a fuel hose with JIC fittings from the filter to the pump. It's just a precaution. Here are a few pics of the final installation of the exhaust and intercooler tubing. It took a while to do things right the first time. I intend to keep this loader for a long time therefore I wanted to make sure that everything was permanently installed and secured. I have my 1942 Chevy G506 and the 3 wheeler Honda VTX to work on next so there is no end to projects. Thanks for following along and perhaps I provided some useful info and insight on what it takes to complete a 4BT conversion. Paul
Ooop's Forgot one more item that I want to get fixed. The bucket float switch on the control lever didn't have any wires going to it and the switch was broken. This function is really nice when loading trash or fine grading 'cause you won't be digging holes. The knob screws off and there are two small socket head Allen screws that hold it together, The problem I forsee is getting the correct switch so that it fits inside the knob. Paul
That rocker switch does not look too special. I'd start with a search at Graingers or McMaster Carr. unles you have a good electronic parts house near you. Just remembered another good place to check Mouser Electronics http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?N=254107 If you can't find one there you are real fussy Looks like 866 pages of toggles! PS: like those aluminum diamond plate electrical power strips on the wall!
I haven't examined it closely. Maybe there are numbers on it that can be crossed over. It is a spring NO center for off and on in either direction of the toggle. Two separate functions. Not sure of how it works with the hydraulic control. Haven't located the point where it connects either. Perhaps there is a complete OEM replacement from another loader. Paul
Sounds just like the switch we had on a genset control. It was connected to an electric motor in the governor. It basically turned a knob on the governor turn one way and engine sped up and the other it slowed down. You just watched a frequency meter and nudged the switch one way or another till it read 60 cycles. Guess you need to do some research on the hydraulic control system to figure out how it functions in your system. None of the Cat or Komatsu loaders I'm familiar with use this kind of switch operated float. If I remember I'll check to see if I have one of that style left at work on Monday.
I'm half asleep but I thought that that switch declucthed the drive train so you could rev up the engine?Yawnnnn.Ron G
That could be a possibility! I know on our Komatsu WA600 there is a switch on the hoist lever that kicks the transmission down to 1 st gear. So if when digging in 2 nd you need a bit more push into the pile you just tap the button and it drops into 1st. Then back to 2 nd when shifted in to reverse. That way you can keep your left hand on the steering at all times.
There is a control valve on the left had side forward of the cab. The hydraulic lines go to the tilt cylinder. I can't find this part listed on in the brake section or hydraulic section. The electrical lists the item as item #16 "Switch, Magnetic Addition Hydraulic." Paul
Good write-up on this re-power. I am planning to swapping out a Continental F245 for a 4BT in a 1960 Dynahoe backhoe. My Dynahoe has a Borg Warner T-12 directional trans coupled to a Ford 4 Speed trans. I'm planning to re-drill the Continental adapter and maybe flywheel to fit the Cummins motor. If this doesn't work, I'll have to get an SAE #3 adapter and flywheel and an adapter ring to go from there to the SAE #3 bellhousing. I will also be documenting my swap. Do you have a web address for C and C Truck Parts? I am having a problem finding them.
Gunslinger Thanks. Just great to have the 4BT in the Trojan. Although I did not install a muffler, it's really quiet, starts instantly and everything function very well. The Cummins SAE 3 stuff is plentiful and reasonably priced. When I made My adapter, I had to draw it in auto cad (24 holes) and then drill it on a mill with DRO on it to be sure it was precise. There was no margin for error. I don't have a web address for C and C. Good luck on your repower. Paul