Looking for input as I am in the market for a used tandem dump and caught at a cross road. Now don't suggest buying new, because that is why out of my budget. Where I am caught it between 2 trucks, one is a 2003 with 300k miles and the other is a 1995 with almost 600k miles. Not going to go into make and model because don't want to start which is better, both are solid trucks but 30k price difference. Cosmetically the 2003 is much better, my question is for someone starting out should I start with an older truck that is less money and may have break downs or go with a new truck. I can afford both but obviously the newer will cost me more money. I am just stuck on which would be the best for me. Hope the above all makes sense.
The 1995 will have a lot less emissions garbage on it than the 2003. What engines are in the trucks.
What truck's, what motor's, trannies, suspensions etc?
2003 Volvo VHD64F200 with d-12 motor 8ll vs. 1994 Peterbilt 379 Detroit 60 13speed
That would be an easy choice for me. Lots of places to get the Detroit worked on and buy parts for it. Only a few places for the Volvo.
hard to beat a Detroit. don't make tons of power but are very reliable and parts are reasonable. that alone would be the deal maker
I like the Peterbilt and says 450hp with the detroit but its a damn long truck with the front even with only have a 14' dump
I would lean more towards the volvo. I like the 8LL for moving around the job and that big nose on that Pete makes fireplugs and guardrails disapear untill you feal the bumper hook them.
Are they both spec'd the same for front and rear ends? 600k would put the detroit in the range where it was recently rebuilt or may need to be rebuilt soon.
I would take the Detroit, as stated above parts and complete engines are very available and reasonably cheap. 600K miles is not that many miles for a 60 series engine that has been taken care of. It may run a long time the way it is.
That Detroit is from the era where piston skirts would break around that mileage unless it has been inframed. All factory detroit kits come with updates to that purchase time. A very good motor either way. DD12 I have seen go to 1 mil in a road truck but are expensive to fix
so the peterbilt is a tractor conversion! then I found another truck 1985 Ford l9000 great shape and it as well was a tractor conversion. Not sure why there are so many older trucks around here that are tractor conversions. I guess ultimatly I my question is: Since this is my first truck and will be owner operated, should I go newer and spend more money and have keep it a long time or spend less go with an older truck and then sell in a few years for a newer truck?
If you are going to be doing mostly road work that is all scaled and not overweight, a highway tractor conversion may be good for you. If the tractor was a heavy spec tractor with 16000+ front end and 40 or 46000lb rear end, then it will be good for all types of work. A highway conversion is not necessarily a bad thing because then you know that the miles are highway miles and the truck probably saw less abuse than a full time dump truck. If i was buying the truck, i would get the TARE weights and the axle weights and buy the truck with the greater load capacity.
Personaly i would take a detroit in anything anyday, and a 379 just makes it better imo. We are the same kind of opreation not just starting out but we are smaller and try to save where we can. To me the older pete just makes alot more sence for most anyone right now, unless you know you have steady work everyday for the next year, and then i would still not want the volvo, about the only plus it has imo is the 8ll.
Thanks John deere and denver for the advice. Your thinking has been along with mine, start older and work up from there. I ran across a 85 Ford l8000 very close to home, has 13 speed seems very good shape 350hp cat. I could get for a good deal, was a converted tractor but its not like it will be an everyday use truck, my only fear is being 350 hp might suck because I want to be able to put a 20ton tag with my deere 160 on it. Not a lot of hills so should handle it
I can tell you from expierence that 350hp is fine, we have a KW tri dump that weighs 26000lbs empty, with a 300hp 3306 cat and a 8ll, and we pull a 20 ton tag with a 943 track loader, backhoe,dozer, and a 160 class excavator up and down big hills and it works, slow but we allways get there, we have also grossed 83000lbs in it and got where we were going, so don't pass up a good truck with a 350 cat. If you don't mind saying what is the price on the pete and the ford ?
I have 2 ford l9000 tandam dumps and have had good luck with them. I pull a 20 ton tag a long with one of them and also have a JD 160LC Excavator that I haul. I have no problem hauling a machine that size my truck has a 290 Cummins "Shiny 290", with a 13 speed and I can run 75 mph loaded no problem. The only problem with the ford's are getting some new parts. On the other hand they built those trucks from the early 70's thru 1997 and there have been thousand produced so used parts are pretty common.
the Pete is asking 25k and the Ford is 15k,
I think I'd be looking in the mid. 90s for a truck that you have to make money with. That 350 cat though, that will be a 3406, and after all these years its likely closer to 400. Good engines.
They both sound a little high to me, but i don't know about the market where you are so they may be ok. I would come alot closer to giving 25k for the pete then 15k for that ford if the condition was about the same. The other thing is atleast around here the pete will hold it's value better than anything, and that could be worth something to you since you may want to update sometime.
What kind of work do you do? Are you going to be doing contract road work, or just putting around a farm, or are you going to be doing customer work. I always found the smaller boxes good for ditching and delivering to customers. When ditching here anyways you get paid for the hour and a small box means they cant overload you too much. And for the customers, a small box means a bigger looking load and they are less likely to complain. :my2c
Danvers, for this area they are fair prices. Not a lot of saturation with trucks around here. Most people either run them into the ground or send them to auctions in Florida. John deere, I do landscaping and small excavation so I want something that can get more materials there in less trips for doing septics, driveways or loam for yards. I doubt I will ever do delivery for clients. What really made me make this move is I did a lawn job last year and wasn't big enough to make sense for delivery but was a pain in the ass making 6 trips with my 650 at 5 yards a piece. Was an hour and half round trip to the pit so it ate up a whole day hauling loam. I hate renting or having someone else do it for me and if Im going to be in the business want equipment that will make me as efficient as possible to increase my profits. Ill attach the 2 pictures
The pete has the wide front tires and offset rims that are usually used for heavy front ends. If it has a heavy front end, that is the one to buy. Here a heavy front will give you an extra 5500lbs gross if I remember correctly. The pete also looks like it was just painted or just converted. There is no soot on the box behind the stack, and it has no tarp on it.
Thanks those are all things I wouldn't had noticed. Here is another one I test drove with my buddy who has been driving on and off a few years but the guy seemed to eager to get it gone without coming down on price. http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=4042527
The sterling is a straight up dump truck. It is spec out as a better package than he pete or ford. Bring a big 1/2 ratchet and crescent wrench. Pull the trans and rear end inspection plugs, check the oil and magnet and you will be set for a long time. Run up the road get it hot and look at the breather on the motor for blowby
The sterling needs at least 1 new steer tire. Did it pull to one side when driving? The C12 is a good engine for a dump truck, and you will never have to worry about the rear suspension other than getting bounced around.
Well, if i was buying with someone else's money i would buy the pete for sure, but the ford will work and looks good to and 10000$ less and that is a decent amount of money so there is another side, but the sterling has lower miles a good engine and transimission it's newer and priced less than the pete, so there is everything you allready know the way i am looking at it, what i would do first is try to buy the pete for about 23000$, if that didn't work out foget about it and look at the other 2 some more. If that is the right range for a truck to cost out there i think you have 3 good ones to pick from.
From what I can see the Ford is a LTL9000 and that is the premium model they made. It looks like it has hendrickson walking beam suspension from the picture which in my opinion is the best for a dump truck. Both of my trucks have the same suspension and they perform good. I personally like a shorter box for what I do hauling equipment, dirt, and some rock. One of my trucks have a 12' bed and the other has a 14'. They are easy to get around on and off road and the fords all have locking diffs in them which is good because if you do all types of general work you will need them. If I had to pick from the two I would take the ford.
has the dash fallen out of the sterling yet? they're notorious for the dash breaking and everything falling down and then your up the creek cause you cant find parts. I still vote for the pete. it might cost more up front but parts are everywhere for the truck and engine.
Funny you should say that, was the first thing the guy said when we went to test drive it, and then said he would replace it. The thing that made me leary of the sterling was the guy wanted it gone but it was a truck he could use and had a full service shop where they were fixing a rolled truck they bought at auction. just didn't feel right. And it has been on truck paper for 3 months. we test drove it a month ago. The pete is still an option, im not in any rush but want to get something hammered down.
yup, i'd steer clear of that truck. what part of maine are you in? i'm in burnham
I'm in Gorham just outside Portland That pete is kinda near you its over in Farmington at Haggan
I have a 89' l9000 and a 87' LTL9000. The L9000 was a factory dump and the LTL9000 was a road tractor. Both have a 3406B the L9000 is set at 350hp and the LTL9000 is set at 425hp. Now that being said you can't go wrong with that LTL. It does not have the creature comforts that a Pete will have but the Ford trucks are work horses. My truck looks almost exactly like yours and i'm here to tell you that if it is speced like mine you can't overload load it. In PA I can legaly pile #57 stone till all four corners are full. If you are hauling in a housing plan you can fill that truck with dirt till it's spilling onto the cab protector and that truck will just shrug it off and keep going. If that truck was closer to me we would buy it in a minute. $15000 for a truck that will last you a long time just so long as you keep up with the small things that break or wear out from use.
I would say try and find more info on the pete. Does it have service records, any engine work done. If you are serious about buying it, oil samples can be a deal maker or breaker. Defiantly worth the money. The front end would be the biggest factor for me though.
Thanks for your input makes me feel better about it because seems like a good starter truck for me at a price that is good for me where I can pay cash. Yea anything I get serious on I will pull oil samples I have a good setup with my local cat dealer. Thanks for all the help being green on these larger trucks is really helping me on what to look for and what will work and what won't.
I agree with "Buckfever" those Ford's are hard to beat. I started my business in 1998 with a 1974 L9000 that I still use. My starter truck is still a daily runner. If it ain't broke don't fix it. That Ford will make you the same money that a Pete will make you for less money and remember dirt and rock don't know what is hauling it.
Good point YEC1998. In what we do onroad trucks are a money pit. There is no sence in spending 50,000 on a truck that won't haul anymore or any faster then a 15,000 dollar truck. Not to toot my own horn but the LTL we have we got a auction for 9,200 a little over a year ago. Then put 3,000 in it to make it drivable and have been running it with out problems. Now watch me go to work tomarrow start the truck and throw a rod.
Haha isn't that always how it is, brag about it then it breaks! I am still kicking myself there was an 81 LTL9000 an hour away last fall, 425 cat body was perfect, guy owned it from new, 383,000 miles was only asking 7900, should had bought it, but was worried it was too old!
well looked at the Ford 9000 today, seems fair shape, hole in the the dump that could be patched, dump hoist was leaking front end was tight brakes seem fine motor cold started right up but my concern is they haven't inspected it since 2008 and have been using as a site truck. Worries me because could be a big problem that could hold it up from passing and they are firm at 15k which seems too much to me! Guess Ill keep looking!
The only way I would buy it is if they would pay to get it inspected. For that price it should be damb near road ready.
Thanks I thought the same, hard for me looking at these when Im not a good mechanic and don't really know anyone who is. they said they were using as a site truck the past 4 years means to me they were loading the **** out of it.
I am the owner of a dump trucking business and if you are just starting out, get something you can pay for. I dont like Volvo engines (just my opinion) everyone that I know that has one, complains about the cost of engine repairs I really like Detroit 12.7 engines, 11.1L have a bad rap and dont seem to last as long as the 12.L The Cat C12 is my favorite engine, three of my quad axle trucks has this engine I dont like the newer Cummins ISM, etc, but the best engine Cummins ever made, was the Big Cam 350/400 In the last 13 years I bet I have owned 15 Ford L9000 trucks and everyone of them were great trucks, of course the Sterling replace them and I feel the same way (except the crappy dash) My best truck ever was a 88KW T800 quad, Cummins L10, 10 speed. I keep this truck 5 years, longest ever, I would have liked more power, but it done the job KW T800, Ford L9000, Sterlings are my favorite I have owned several converted road tractors, they were OK. I will never buy another air ride dump truck, HUMMMMM bad memories Buy a truck with, dump truck suspension If you dont know how to inspect a truck, bring someone with you that knows what they are looking at. I gave this info to another member about a year ago and he didnt listen. He believed the seller, not always a good idea and he spent a bunch of money on the truck Im almost finished checkout three major things, ENGINE, TRANNY/CLUTCH, SUSPENSION It really doesnt matter what year the truck is, ITS the condition of the truck that matters. Just because its a 2001 Vs a 1995 doesnt matter to me Dont buy, just because its pretty 85 model is getting a bit old, just buy a truck you can afford, they all are going to break down and you need to have a reserve, to pay for this break down (new or old) Im finished, but I could write more
The only thing that would turn me off the Ford is the light front end, and the fact that body parts are not getting any easier to come by. The Pete is a truck that you will have no problem finding parts for, and you well have some creature comforts. The box on the pete looks to be in better shape than the one on the Ford as well.
Thanks Willis, keep going if you want, I am new to this, I own 2 medium duty truck but found they are totally different and I am open to any input or suggestions. I never ever trust a seller, they want it gone for the most money, I barely trust anyone defintely won't trust what the seller says. I don't care about pretty exterior because no matter what it will get painted to match my fleet. I am looking for something I can pay cash for, went round and round and don't want to take money out to pay for this want to pay cash. So my budget is about $20k I have been looking about 5 months got real serious in the last 2 Ill find whats right for me will just take a bit of hunting
john deere I am headed friday or monday to look at the pete, have a buddy to ride with me to check it out i will be interested to see it in person.
I believe johndeere likes Pete trucks I had one, like the one in the pictue and I sold it in 2 months. I could turn circles, with the LTL Ford, Ford and Sterling always seemed to me to have a sharper turning radius walker beam suspension is the best in my opinion also, but make sure the bushings are not worn out, that could be about a $1700 repair
Pete is defiantly not my favourite truck. I like the Freightliners and Kenworths the most. I just think the Pete is the best truck to buy out of this bunch.
I don't have a lot of experience with anything other than a mack. I know a lot of guys don't really care for them, but we have had good luck. Don't hesitate to look at an older R model, they are tough as nails and will last forever. Make sure you check (with any truck) the frame rails on a double frame, look for separation between the flanges where the rust is pushing it apart, also look where the rail meets the flange, they will split and break right there.
This is the sort of thing you want to watch on the frame. Never ever take anyones word for it, I bought this truck through DJD associates, and I took his word, which is obviously no good.
Are you sure the front end on the Ford is a light front end? I have owned 2 LTL tandems and two LTL quads and they all had the heavy front axle. If this was a converted road tractor, it might have a lighter front end. You dont need 20,000 lb front axles for a tandem, that carries 15 ton Back to the Pete and the LTL, they both have the long hoods and I never liked the long hoods, trying to get into small driveways. This is just what a driver likes As far as parts for a Ford, unless its crazy old, you can still get parts, Freightliner bought out Sterling and that where I get my parts. There are lots of salvage yard to get parts also. Yea I like Fords Watch out buying trucks out of your State, it can be a hassle, unless you have someone with dealer tags, or you are buying from a dealer I have a guy/dealer in Richmond Va, that has two great looking Ford L9000 tandems, Im not sure the year maybe 1995. If you are interested send me a PM and Ill send you his cell number. I dont know anything about the trucks except, they are white and nice looking. He can give you a trip permit, to get you across the state lines
Nedley, Have never liked DJD I talked to them a few years ago when I started my search for an excavator, did like the way I was treated when asking for more pictures before making the 3 hour trip to look at the machine, never called again. How did you fix the frame? Willis there is actually a big truck parts yard 2 towns over from me they have a ton of parts for older trucks including 9000, well I found a could more trucks in VT 3 hour trip each way to go look at, one dealer has 3 trucks, 95 pete tandem, 88 l9000 tandem and a 91 freightliner tri axel. Would like a tandem but in the price is right a tri axel might not be too bad.
I was looking on Craigslist for your area and I didnt see alot of dump trucks and what I did see were very very high priced I really dont like Freightliners (but I have one) I guess its the LOOK thing As I said, I dont like long hoods. The Freightliner I have is a 2000 Fl-112 quad, it has the short hood It doesnt turn like my Sterlings and KW's, but its OK Try to find trucks from a private party, like Craigslist, that cuts the dealers markup out. I hardly ever buy a truck from a dealer, if I do I really need a truck in a hurry Im sure if you stay 1990 and newer you will find parts for any truck If the Triaxle has a steerable drop axle, and the price is right. I would say go for that one Make sure the dealer inspects the truck for you
Trust me I am search craigslist every day, the dealer in VT is more of a fix it shop that sells trucks only selling older ones not like a dealer that sells new. I would much rather buy from the owner than a dealer. Not a fan of the long hoods
Well the truck was supposed to have a 300 with a jake, but it ended up being a 237 no jake. That was a huge issue too. It was going to cost me 6-8 grand to repair the frame just to have a truck with no power up or down hill. I mulled it over for a long time and found a guy that would take it on trade toward a skid steer.I lost a lot of money, but now I have something I can use at least. Lesson learned!
Well the red ford sold for full asking which i never would had done, but when one door closes another door opens http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/3667572073.html give your opinion, I can pay cash on it, I am sure it needs work says tires and lights but I am sure there are other things, Any insight or area to look at? I like that it has a jake brake and pintle which the other did not. Thanks and Nedley atleast you learned a lesson, things don't always go as planned but if you can take something away usually that is payment enough.
ford dump truck Im not too proud to own older trucks, I am currently looking at buying a 88 KW T800 quad Older trucks seems to have more issues, that need to be corrected, than the newer ones Its a pretty big engine, for a tandem truck. This was one of the toughest engines ever made, they still make this in the electronic version I wonder if its a converted road tractor? I would check the rears real good, for wear Check the tranny to make sure it shifts OK and doesnt jump out of gear Looks like a LTL9000, so its got the long hood thingee If it has A/C Im sure it doesnt work (this is not a issue, you can add a aftermarket, that works better than factory) single frame or double frame? Ford did come out with a heavy frame, that they said was better than a double frame. It looks different, than a regular frame, its alot taller and then when it gets to the front tandem, it narrows back to the standard size. So it doesnt have to be double frame, to be OK Check the walker beam bushings, if you dont know how, ask us make sure there is no water in the oil make sure there is no oil in the water also motor mounts (leave the brakes on and with in gear ease out on the clutch (not all the way) watch the motor to see if it moves over or the gear shift lever moves over) Of course check the frame for cracks, usually around the cab areas These older trucks seems to have alot of issues with the heater/defrost controls, the cables are either broke or froze, fan switch doesnt work The usual stuff I dont know the prices of trucks in your area, but if that truck was in my area it would be about $6500 max
well after up all night thinking, I rarely ever sleep! I think it is wiser to get rid of my Ford f550 and use money from that to buy a newer truck where I will have less problems. I am worried with an 80's truck I will just be wrenching on it all the time and I am not paid to be a mechanic. So will refocus my earch to 95-2000 years in good shape and lower miles and looking at Kenworth, peterbilt and mack as all three have parts and service close by.
I work for a county highway dept.with roughly 100 dump trucks. We quit buying any truck with a double frame 30+ years ago. The road salt gets between the 2 pieces and rot out the frame. For quite a few years, GMC did not offer a single frame and we ended up with a fleet of 95% Ford L8000's and 5% IH. Those L8000's were good trucks for us. Getting rid of the last one this year. I bought my 87 LTL9000 a few years ago by being patient.
I hear you on not wanting to be wrenching on it all the time, but you need to expect to have to do some wrenching if you own a big truck, new or old you are going to be wrenching, just not as much on a new truck. We just got an '06 F550, they are a lot of truck in a little package!
Check these guys out, they always have a few trucks in stock and they will take anything in trade, including your F550! http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=4080477&dlr=1&pcid=2000775782
I don't know what kind of work you do but I can say owning a big truck will either make you a machanic or broke paying one. I've said it before and I'll say it agian, I HATE ON-ROAD TRUCKS. Compaired to equipment they require alot more tlc. The best advice I can give is if this truck you buy is going to be something you plan on keeping for a long time keep up on all the maintanace. Even the little things. When you start letting thing slide it will snowball. Before you know it you will have a truck that is not worth making right and you will could of still been a good truck. Had this happen to us. Bought a 89 L9000 and over time put a lot of money in the drivetrain. But not taking care of the small things gave use a great running truck that is to far gone every where else.
Ohh i know whatever I buy I will be working on, have 3 other work trucks that constantly need attention. I just meant more of I don't want a money pit, I don't want to buy a worn out truck that everything has to be fixed on and that spends more time in the shop than working when I could had spent the money for a bit nicer truck and maintained from there. I am a maintenance freak so no problem there! Just don't want to buy old and cheap hoping to save money just to be putting it all out fixing a tired truck.
I hear ya Seaside LPS. Having a good platform to start with is always a pluse. Hope whatever you buy lasts you a a long time without many problems.
Can't catch a break, so went and looked at the Peterbilt, so it has over a million miles, was an on road tractor that had a sleeper and they did a ****** job patching the cab when they removed the sleeper, the bottom of the dump was beat to ****. Certainly is not what their asking and is defintely not what I want. Back to searching!
The other part of buying a little nicer truck, is when you do have to work on it, you are putting money into a truck that is still worth something, rather than spending money on a truck to keep it going that you will never see again.
I would never consider a highway truck with a sleeper that has been removed.The front axle is never heavy enough for the wheelbase with a dump bed.8LL trannys are great for dump applications especially in reverse,up hill,around the tree,watch out for the septic tank,etc.
Some trucks with sleepers do have heavy front ends. I know of some companies that spec 20,000 fronts in all of their highway trucks.
I have owned many dumps and I know everyones situation is different. All my used trucks were Ford LT 8000 and KW T800's, all great trucks, but like all trucks, constant money pits and too much down time. I ended up buying two new Sterlings in 2002 after figuring what my repairs and down time was costing me. I sure don't regret this decision. If you can't buy new, buy used and budget in complete component rebuilding as needed. To me rebuilding a cheaper older truck is better than spending more money on a slightly used newer truck that may need the same repairs. No one has said anything about boxes, but I would not have one with cross members if all possible, Good Luck
No crossmembers Around here unless you only haul gravel or mulch those unitized steel beds get all bent up. Same goes for aluminume. Out here we have about 6" of dirt then nothing but rock.
No cross members with the AR 400 steel floors, the only way to go, I don't care what your hauling. Better to have the bends front to back then side to side ripples. The side to side ripples hold dirt, rock whatever your dumping, will never clean out even with a vibrator. Your right about the aluminum. If you would haul mainly dirt, 3/4" plastic liners are the only way to go, vibrators are nothing but trouble. Good Luck
I have a 96 Pete with over 1M miles, and a 07 KW with 130K miles. Things are going to break eventually, and they're going to be repaired/replaced. Then they'll be new again. IMHO a huge factor is who you've got driving them.