I have bought a JD850C dozer that the trunion balls that connect the push arms have been neglected and wore down creating a lot of slop. Can these trunion balls be welded back up to fit new end caps and get any life out of them or is this a waste of time?
I'm going to watch this thread, I have the same issue with my D6C, I think I can swap mine from side to side and if built up with weld, the Front side would be original and they are not hardly worn, I'm hoping to get some extra life out of them with that plan.
The fast and dirty way would be to cut off a 1/4 inch off the cap. More if needed, but someday you will have to pay the fiddler and replace the ball and trunnion.
If it was a Cat machine the answer would be yes. Replacement trunnion balls are generally available in the Parts system. Welding on the replacements is not particularly difficult but needs to be done carefully. JD - no idea, sorry.
I have flipped and built up weld on a d8 before just to get though the season as the socket had to be cut off the arm and replaced also so a little more time involved and didnt want to tear up the new ball until both parts could be replaced otherwise no it wouldn't have really been worth it to build up
You can weld on the trunion or weld in the cap to tighten her up until you have time to do it right. There's good aftermarket parts for Cats. Don't know about JD.
If you build up with weld use a specific rod like Stoody Build Up LH or the equivalent Lincoln Wearshield rod. It won't mushroom like standard rods like 7018. It costs more but using 7018 would be a waste of time and money in my opinion. Grinding it the right profile would take a lot patience but worth it in the long run. Would be good to use about a 250-300 deg. preheat.
Swapping from side to side and putting some weld on the worn side to take out the slop will work. You will be hard-pressed to find any weld material that comes close to the hardness and depth of hardness of a new trunnion. A set of new Chinese-origin aftermarket trunnion balls will provide satisfactory service. For the wear in the casting on the end of the push arm, I've seen owners buy a new trunnion end cap, and then cut the curved part of the push arm casting off, and weld the new end cap on, to save on buying the whole casting that is welded into the end of the push arm.
The Stoody Build Up is the same rod that's recommended for idlers, rails and rollers and other metal to metal wear. It's a medium hardness. For a final layer there might be a higher hardness rod that could be used but then I think you'd have to worry about spalling.
Seen an apparatus used for grinding those trunions after buildup one time but I think it was home built by the man using it. To me it looked like an extended output shaft hydraulic motor with form ground grinding wheels mounted. The motor rotated around a circular ring that looked like an automotive flywheel with no center and this mounted to a stanchion that was welded to a track frame centered on the trunion. It rotated around the trunion and the depth of grind could be adjusted. I never seen a job from start to finish, but he had wheels for different sizes and radii of trunion balls, and mating but reverse ground tool bits for the push beam saddles used on his boring bar setup. I believe the same hydraulic power unit was used for both setups.
Maybe things have changed but a year ago Stoody was only selling it in drum quantities. I purchased a similar product from another vendor in 30lb (+) spools. Worked well on bottom rollers.
I was talking about stick electrodes. They come in 10lb. packages. Pretty sure the equivelant wire is available on 12" spools and maybe even 10lb. 8" spools in smaller sizes like .035" and .045". I used to work for a place that did automatic chromium carbide build up of pipe. They bought a wire made for them by Stoody. When it came they got 14 or 15 drums at a time. I think 500lbs. a drum but may have been less. It was worth a fortune. I think $6-$8 a pound, can't remember exactly but a trailer load was around $50,000 and that was over 20 years ago.
By the time you buy a couple of really pricey boxes of chromium hardfacing and other electrodes needed for buildup, then take into account your welding time and electrical power expended to build up the trunnions, you've run up nearly the cost of a couple of new aftermarket trunnions. The Chinese steel and hardening is O.K., nearly all the cutting edges and ripper tips are coming out of China now.
Build up rod isn't chromium carbide and is much cheaper but if you can get new trunnion balls would be a lot easier. They still need to be welded on solidly.
With all the talk about replacement trunnion balls and the need to weld them onto the bracket that bolts them to the track frame...wouldn't it be feasible to buy the complete ball/ bracket as one unit? or is there a huge price difference or availability issue?
A new complete trunion with the bolt on bracket less clamps and hardware is $4600 from Deere for each side. Am getting some aftermarket prices next. Have found a couple excellent condition used ones in salvage for $250 apiece.
$4600.00 per side? that'll buy me a LOT of rods, gasoline for my welder and since I own my outfit...my time isn't worth anything so I guess I'll go dig the welder out of storage and light up some rods. Skyking told me back along when I found out the cost of new...it'd have me welding them up in no time. I wasn't using the machine at that time and sidelined that detail..this reminded me I still have it to do.
Oz, or anyone else that see this. Where would a person look for aftermarket chinesium trunnion's bolt on ready? Any Idea? I'd like to explore that before I spend the money to buy hardening rods.
Are you getting quoted for the trunnion ball or a whole assembly for $4600 a quick google with out all your info shows this part fro the weld in ball # https://shop.deere.com/us/product/T84771:-Ball-Trunnion/p/T84771 Would have to call for price and availability For 4600 I would be welding it up or fitting some Cat parts to it Drill and tap it for a big cap washer on the out side so the arm doesnt fall off ?
Try this place, I just found them for my machine...I THINK? $271.00 per side bolt on.I'm just waiting to confirm they will fit my machine. https://www.agkits.com/caterpillar-trunnion-4j2847.aspx?msclkid=0696281544c510e6b6944da7e97b4b81
Should be the right number. 6F2904 and 6F2905 will be the other bits that go on the push arm.
You can acquire the Chinese aftermarket trunnion bearing that welds into the push arm, off eBay, for US$120. Seller is in FL. 6F2904 Bearing Cap Fits Caterpillar 527 6A 6S 6SU 6 D6E D6E SR D6G SR D6G2 XL | eBay Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6F2904 Bearing Cap Fits Caterpillar 527 6A 6S 6SU 6 D6E D6E SR D6G SR D6G2 XL at the best online prices at eBay! www.ebay.com.au And the Chinese aftermarket trunnion cap is US$41.38 off Aftermarket Express - and it appears shipping for this item within the U.S. is $19.95. 6F2905 - CAP fits Caterpillar | Price: $41.38 Price: $41.38. Stock: In Stock. 3-day shipping. 6F2905 CAP. Dimensions: 8.3 x 3.2 x 2.4 in. Weight: 8.6 lbs. aftermarket.express I wouldn't even be able to buy the electrodes for buildup, for that kind of money.
I would worry about the steel and overall quality at that low of price. I'd probably go with $271 items.
Dave, they're likely to be the exact same products from the same Chinese supplier. Large numbers of Western businesses are out to make a killing on the huge profits available from selling Chinese parts. The days of Chinese products being absolute rubbish every time are getting much lower today, there are so many Western manufacturers who have moved into China in a big way, and who have provided the technology for superior levels of finished quality, that the Chinese have learned what is needed, very quickly. I've been looking around for a replacement muffler for my 931B, the Chinese have swamped the market with aftermarket mufflers - but the same 931B aftermarket muffler ranges from as low as US$48 up to US$139 in the U.S. I got one off eBay and it cost me US$54 and only US$18 for shipping. Local companies want over AU$300 (approx US$200) for one, and the genuine Cat item is AU$471.
I wonder if there would be any way to get specs. on the type of steel and hardness? I know China has some of the best steel in the world. A big shop here that builds pressure vessel components has 30,000 tons of steel in their "plate land" yard. A lot of it from China. They have one of the largest inventories of SA516-70 boiler plate in the world. They also have one of the largest plate rolls that can roll 7" thick cold and 12" hot! For making heads they designed and built a 3000 ton head press.
I'll know more in a few days, I just bought two of them...delivered to my door for $601.00 That's $800.00 less than my local CAT dealer wanted for a pair of them. Before shipping to their store their list price was $710.00 each plus 5.5% sales tax, and I'd need to drive there and back to get them at that price which is 85 miles one way from my home.
I've ordered from AgKits.com several times in the past and didn't have any problems. Their gaskets are actually Victor-Reinz from what I've seen on a couple of occasions. Much of my two stroke parts come from them. Another good vendor from my experiences with aftermarket suppliers is Reliable Aftermarket Parts. If you can conjure up part numbers on your own, they seem to be able to find what is needed. They will readily stand behind what they sell also. https://www.reliableaftermarketparts.com/ I'm not one to blow sunshine up nobody's backside and these are both vendors I use repeatedly.
Mcrafty1 I'll be following how you make out on this repair... Curious if the design of the trunnion/bearing/cap is so the trunnion takes majority of the abuse/wear (and maybe the cap too) so rebuilding the push arm ends is not also required (maybe recommended)? I guess the new trunnions will begin to tell the story...certainly should make a huge improvement!
That's good news, I have heard of Reliable also, they didn't show up on the search so I didn't think to check with them. When I talked to the salesman at agkits he was great help and I run the number by CAT and that was the same number so I'm pretty confident they will be for my machine.
Thanks everyone. I was able to locate the aftermarket clamps and the weldment for the push arms. Heavyquip will supply them. The clamps are $250 and the weldments for the push arms run $420 per side.
Where are the Heavyquip replacements manufactured? If they say "China", I'd have to opine you got hosed on those prices. If they're made in Italy or the U.S., then the pricing could be justified. The weldments on eBay that I linked to in post #22 above, are US$120 and it looks like shipping is around US$60 to MO. I'm thinking someone in Heavyquip is looking to fund a new top of the line Beemer for his wife, because the ashtray is full in the one she's got now.
I am unsure of their manufacturing location at present but will let you know when they deliver them to me. I have had excellent luck with the items I have got from Heavyquip in past, so hopefully the items will be good & if not, it won’t be the first time I have been hosed and prolly not the last. One thing for sure & positive-my HQ salesman has had good results with these items from other customers. Time will tell…..
It's well established China can have high end products or bottom of the barrel products. It's really hard to know on some things without some kind of specs. to compare quality. Sometimes you might pay more but you bought from an established business. This can be good if there is a warranty or quality issue and is often a lot easier to order and receive. It's a bit of a gamble ordering from some place you have no experience with. I will pay a little more if I can find something local rather than having to order it. Next best for me is to order from established businesses where you can see reviews and basically check them out.
I was doing some more availability checking, and it seems if you own JD equipment you're reamed extensively on parts - aftermarket as well as OEM - as compared to older Cat parts. I was surprised at how few aftermarket JD parts I could find - especially for the JD850. Perhaps the aftermarket manufacturers see minimal sales levels in supplying JD parts, due to lower equipment numbers overall, or perhaps they're fearful of the Rottweiler-like reputation of JD's legal dept.
It could be that there aren't that many machines like the 850 still running because they were extremely expensive to fix back when they were still current and parked because of it. There isn't enough demand to have a lot of spare parts.
Im going to going to to trunnions/balls and maybe the caps/base also. This is on a 72 D4D with a c-frame style blade with an angle. Anyone have any experiences ordering the chinesium parts for one of these dozers? I was also contemplating welding/building them up first.
I would think aftermarket balls and trunnions for a Cat should be easier to find. Offroad equipment has been mentioned quite a bit as a source for Cat parts at reasonable prices.
I've noticed that AMT Equipment have very good pricing overall for aftermarket parts. They mention they sell CTP parts, which I believe is Costex. You need your blade serial number and the Cat 4A blade parts book relevant to your blade, to find the part number for the trunnion ball and caps. AMT list a range of trunnions, but as I don't have the D4D trunnion part number, I can't tell if they can supply trunnions for a D4D. https://www.amtequipmentparts.com/undercarriage-frame-body/trunnions/
A lot of those ITR or CTP parts can be Italian, same as Caterpillar Yellowmark parts.
ITR is owned by the USCO Group, which is based in Modena, Italy - but they have manufacturing facilities and joint ventures for component supply in a number of European countries, China, Korea, Brazil and possibly other places I haven't even found yet. USCO Group has dozens of global subsidiaries, they are huge. This is just their Brazilian manufacturing business. Sobre nós - Biza biza.com.br USCO Group history - History of the USCO ITR Group | ITR Pacific www.itrpacific.com.au COSTEX was started in 1979 by a Colombian couple, Gilberto and Teresa Uribe, in Miami, FL. They started off simply by purchasing bulk parts from Italian aftermarket manufacturers, but have since moved into manufacturing themselves (including a gasket factory) - as well as importing parts from manufacturers in China, Korea and Brazil - as well as Italy, still. They're now big enough to get their items manufactured with their own "CTP" brand on the products. https://www.costex.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/ida_universal-March-April_-2015.pdf
They are buying Tilly's on the 1st February according to an email I just got from them.
the numbers i found on the center of my blade assembly are 2J1070X
That's the Bracket Assy #1.
Cat D4D trunnion help I am working on a gyro-trac mulcher. It appears a previous owner "modified" the loader arms and welded in D4D trunnion mounts instead of the OEM trunnions which utilize a plain spherical bearing. My issue is the used the OEM trunnion shaft which is 2" dia. And the left the inner spherical race... HeavyEquipmentForums
ok then they might be, 4H6984X UT
That's #5. Listed as a Bearing - Qty 4. (Also listed as "discontinued" in the parts system.)
I believe the serial number tag is #3 in Niges diagram? #2 is the drive pins that hold the tag on. I'm hazarding an educated guess that the parts book below is the one that applies to your D4D angle blade. 4A is the angle blade for the D4, 4S is the straight blade. The parts book contains parts information for both types of blade. The serial number plate location is usually a diagram at the rear of the book. Pardon Our Interruption...
The "X" after the part number is superfluous on Cat parts, it's only a Cat internal code identifying the factory where the parts were made. Both 2J1070 and 4H6984 are not identifying the blade serial number in my Cat NPR, the numbers only make up a larger assembly in both instances.
That is correct. Even if the plate has long gone the Part Number of the blade should also be stamped in that location. The most common blade Part Number that a search for 2J1070 and 4H6984 throws up is 2J-1136. This is a 4A associated with the following blade S/N prefixes: - 33R, 52E, 65F, 95G, & 96E.
Is it that tough to find the trunnion balls? Did the use a different design of ball for every blade made for a d4d size cat? That doesn't seem to efficient to me. Ill have to look for more numbers when Im at the machine next.
Not if the blade Serial Number is supplied, no.
9J-2759 says compatible with 140 143, 4A and 4S. 143 is the hydraulic system on the D4D, 4A and 4S is the blade type. Compatible Models for part number 9J-2759 TRACK-TYPE TRACTOR 5S D5H D3B D3C D6N LGP D5H XL 5P D5 D4H III D6M D6N 5A D4H 55 4S 5 D4E D4E SR 4 143 140 4A D4H XL D3C II TRACK-TYPE SKIDDER D5HTSK II