Hey guys my name is brian and after 5 years in the army and the rest of my life spent in the log woods we have decided to change directions and I acquired some equipment now I'm wanting to get into excavating but I'm having trouble getting a foot hold. I have a few jobs lined up and I have a good name for being a good worker and honest so that helps but I wanna know what kind of jobs would be the best to take with the equipment I currently have. Any tips in bidding and general excavating would be appreciated plus I thought you guys might enjoy seeing some old equipment put to work so here is what I got. Terex 82-40 AA 12 foot blade and 8-71 detroit Euclid 91fd rear dumper haul truck Kobelco sk250lc with a 2 yard bucket Case 580se 2wd wobble stick I'm trying to find a hwy dump truck and I want a skidsteer or a road grader but I haven't decided what to work towards plus the price of equipment is still sky high so whatever I can get my hands on first will probably be my next piece. Let me know what you guys think.
On the business side, first thing is sell the job/project not the equipment. Don't just advertise "backhoe work", "dozer work," etc. instead sell the finished product. Along those same lines, try to do projects where you can give the customer a complete solution to their needs. People like it when they can call one guy and he comes in and does the whole project for a set price. I don't do any work hourly, everything is by the bid, turn key price including labor and materials. I stick by the price I give, unless additional work is added or we hit solid rock (rock clause), but the customers know this up front so there are no surprises. Get your contractors license, class A CDL, general liability insurance, etc if you haven't already. Keep your overhead low, cash reserves high, and don't sell your work too cheap. It's better to sit at home and make nothing than be out there running your equipment into the ground and make nothing. Most likely starting out you're going to want to do the smaller jobs to get yourself established and minimize your risk. Driveway construction and maintenance, building farm roads, small ponds, small land clearing jobs, farm and residential drainage work, small trenching jobs etc. I'd look for a decent tandem dump truck and 10-20 ton pintle hitch trailer for your next purchase (although that looks like you may have a trailer in your pic). Your backhoe and a dump truck will probably be your most profitable combo starting out, next I'd add a skid steer or CTL and eventually a mini ex . Your bigger equipment (especially the 250 class excavator) could be good money makers too, but mobility costs and overhead start to be more of a factor, so you better make sure the jobs you put them on are actually penciling out. I started with a Case 480e 4wd backhoe, 450c LGP 6-way dozer, 1854c skid steer and a 1980 F600 single axle dump. It'd be a dream team for a small one man dirt operation in the '80-90s, but fairly archaic by today's standards. Nonetheless, I still have all that equipment and it's just as capable of making money today as back then. I know plenty of guys who fed their family for years with just a backhoe, dozer and a dump truck. I have recently added a 5-ton mini ex and a CTL, which were huge for boosting productivity/profits, but I only added them when the revenue stream was capable of paying for them. From the beginning each piece of equipment paid for itself and I only bought it when I really needed it. I have and still do rent equipment that doesn't pencil out. Start small and grow organically.
I appreciate that a lot man. I have been doing small clearing and road jobs. Some driveways I can fix with a shovel and a pickup. I have a small homemade dump trailer that I have less than 800 bucks in and I have a lowboy plus a semi so I don't have to pay much to move equipment which is nice. I'm glad you mentioned the rock clause I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm having a blast doing this and I wouldn't mind if I stayed small just had plenty of work. I'll post some pics of a little work I've done and I would appreciate any input it criticism.
When you say "bidding" are you talking about hard bidding jobs or just pricing jobs? Who are you customers?
Your equipment looks pretty old. If your bidding jobs, what about uptime reliability ?
Make sure the company has money. Don't put everything in your own bank account. Pay yourself a living wage, and put the rest in a company account, for repairs, tools, whatever. Lots of guys will buy toys, and not have money for sudden expenses
Your customer base is going to determine a lot about how you can price and move forward Your iron is old that's not a bad thing but a bunch of old iron can be difficult to have employees to run and parts are not always readily available Also the iron you have is not small and doesn't pay well doing small residential house pads and with iron that age GCs in Comercial will be skeptical
You really like getting your moneys worth out of your cutting edges.
Becoming a licensed septic installer may be a good place to start.
Mg84 has some good insite. I missed what and where you are working at. I would say the best way to get business is to add more services until you get so much work you can't handle it. Do the basics like water line installs, concrete driveways, foundations, lot clearing, demo work, tree removal, septic field lines and tank installs, building pads, concrete slabs. And simple work. Every one has a skidsteer and mini excavator, you must be the guy that can do what they can't. You get on one job and you will move from Clearing the site, to grading the site, installing erosion control, to building the foundation, then the water line and then have subs do blocks or walls and just mark it up a bit. Next thing you know you get stuck on a job for a month and 5 more are waiting. Your brain will make you far more money than this tractor or that. Old paid for machines that work will make more money than new ones with a payment anyway. Unless you get on a 5 or 10 million dollar commercial job... but it takes a 10 man crew with 5 million worth of iron.. these big jobs are out of a small firms reach. So branch out and do everything you can learn and you will never look for work. There is enough work out there that you can't do it all in your lifetime. I have been weeks and months behind and I can't get caught up. It has been like this for years. Sooner or later you are looking for somewhere to hide. I dropped most all small jobs and don't even want any work that is under 5k. Taking small jobs can and will cause you to loose big jobs. So be careful of your schedule. You can't make money working for someone that is broke so judge your customers carefully. Also learn the work and do the best job you can. Be better than everyone else. Give good advice and don't worry about the price or competing with other bids. People will pay more for some one that shows up on time, sticks to and makes a schedule stays in communication constantly and answers the phone and fixs problems when and as they occur. I have taken so much work from bad contractors and don't price match and I am not the cheapest guy. I feel like I am the best maybe or maybe not but that's how I show up and I leave. I don't have the newest machines but mine work and I know how to use them. I charge for basic site inspections and bids now. I stopped driving and wasting time for door knockers some one that is ready for work to be done will pay to get you there And if people think you are busy they want you to do their jobs. If you act slow you will be slow. And last but not least, I have never cheated or screwed a customer ever. I might be 20% more money but if I show up they will get what they need. The way I look at it I have 100s of jobs and experience behind my decisions and I have solved many problems on sites so they are paying for my experience now.
A few more thoughts: If you don't already have one a 30-50hp utility tractor can be very useful and doesn't cost that much used. I have a few different tractors I use in my business for everything from running a landscape rake or box blade for driveway work and site cleanup to a Harley rake and Brillion seeder for putting in lawns. Bush hogging and other land maintenance jobs can be good fill in work. Yes, everyone and their brother has a tractor and often work for beer money, that really doesn't matter. I do much better quality work than they do, show up when I say I will, and charge accordingly. Which brings me to my next point, the best way to make really good money in the excavation/construction line of work is 1) do premium quality work, 2) do it fast, 3)do it by the bid/job not hourly 4) charge accordingly. If you figure it up I often make 2-3 times per hour what the guys charging by the hour do, and the customer don't know or honestly care. They are thrilled when you show up on time, do an excellent quality job, do it fast, clean up after yourself, and do it for a set price. To be successful at this you have to be a good operator, be good at estimating/bidding jobs, and have good equipment. Good equipment can mean different things, but regardless it needs to be well maintained, ready to work, and be well suited for the type of work. The skill of operating the equipment and estimating the jobs will come with time. Excavating only makes up ~50% of my business, I also build barns, fencing, do some masonry work, hardscaping, land maintenance, etc. The equipment I own dovetails nicely into my other construction trades (as well as my farming operation) and having some diversity in my services ensures I'm always covered up with work. Offering a variety of services also helps me work my schedule around the weather. When it's too wet for dirt work its a great time for driving fence posts. Ground too hard/dry for fencing/excavating? do some land maintenance or general construction projects. I try to plan my jobs that will require lots of grass seeding to be done in Apr-Jun and Sep-Oct for the best results. While other guys are battling the weather I just rearrange my schedule to suit. Having some diversity in your services also makes it really easy to up-sell other jobs. I'll frequently go to do an estimate on some small project (fencing, barn repair, etc) and see other projects that the landowner is needing done. Often goes like this: "wow the access to that back field is pretty tough, a little clearing work and a culvert across that creek would really make spring/fall work easier for you." or "this back yard sure is wet around the house, we could install 4" PVC drain lines for your gutters and really dry things up, probably solve the water issues you've been having in the basement too." and so on. Up-selling stuff like this also lets you kind of pick and choose the types of jobs you want to do. Customers also like it because sometimes you're offering solutions to problems they didn't realize were fixable.
honestly for the age the equipment had been extremely reliable very minimal breakdowns. Maybe a fitting here or a hose here but nothing too substantial. I can still work on this stuff regardless of what happens but when it gets into electrical I'm no good.
Yeah like things I should look for when I'm putting a price together. Most of my customers so far have been farmers or people looking to put a road in to their property. Something I never thought about was a rock clause, maybe more things like that to keep in the back of my mind.
Honestly I'm probably going to limit this to myself or maybe my dad or brother working with me, I don't wanna get rich just pay my bills and this is the stuff I ended up with and I enjoy more clearing and road building than anything. I'd like to more larger scale stuff rather than residential.
I haven't owned this stuff very long but I will be doing a little preventative maintenance before any serious work lol
I genuinely appreciate the insight and info. My stuff is old but it does work. I keep grease in the fittings and check on the fluids and they get changed when they need to be. I have a lot of experience with equipment just not this equipment so I'm excited to see how this goes. I also do have a ford 600 tractor with a blade I planned on using
When you look at how to push your business further, there are several things that I take into consideration. I look at my local area, what areas of excavation are being serviced well, not serviced at all or over serviced. Where can I go in and do it better. You need to think out of the box. I try and pay attention to every excavation job I come across, I pay attention to what their doing, and what they are doing it with. Sometimes it gives me ideas, sometimes it confirms what I think I already know and sometimes I think "damn those guys are dumb". It varies, but there are always things to learn if you pay attention. One example for me is helical piers, there clearly is a need here for more options on installers, I have given those jobs away in the past. I got the education, bought the equipment and have expanded what we can offer. Once I have some ideas to expand or do it better, I look at my current equipment and see if I own what it takes to do that work and/or do it better. If I don't own what I need, and I determine if there is enough money to made at it, and if so, I figure out how to get what I need. It looks like Brian you bought the equipment and now are looking for jobs to do with it. Maybe moving forward, consider turning that around. Determine what excavation areas you want to specialize in, and buy the equipment that can make that happen. What you have for equipment is limiting you in options. Someone above discussed it, but being diversified is important. Its hard to survive or expand if your super limited on what you can offer. Looking at what you currently have for equipment, one idea would be pond building might be something to consider if that's a thing where your at. You might try contacting some General Contractors and make some connections with those guys and see if you can pull a few jobs, kill it and further build you reputation. I dont know your area obviously, but it appears that expanding your client base is going to be needed.
Thank you I appreciate your insight so what happened was I had a lot of logging equipment and I decided to get rid of it and I've always kind of been in to wheeling and dealing and that's how I ended up with what I have. I can always use this stuff for my own projects so they won't sit around like my other equipment would but if I can turn this stuff into a profitable business that would be ideal. I've always loved doing dirt work and wanted to try my hand at it full time. I have little to no up front money in the stuff so I can almost make money immediately. I also do work full time with a company that does do some work like this and I do this on the side without having to pay myself right now so it's kind of working out. I'm just struggling finding jobs, some have come to me from social media or family and a little word of mouth, i take tons of progress pictures and I am making phone calls every week searching but I don't have the knowledge that other people in this business have and I've never been one that is too good to learn or pretend I'm good at something I'm not so that's why I'm here.
This is important actually. You need to be skilled at what you do, but you gain that experience by doing. The best case scenario is you have various projects you can do on your own property or for friends/family to figure things out. Take detailed notes on how long it takes to do (whatever), how many yards of dirt you can move per hour with this equipment or that, how much fuel you are using, etc. Of course being proficient at running the equipment just takes seat time and it's easiest to learn on your own place where you can just work the equipment without being pressured. The flip side is you still need to be bringing jobs in and sometimes you just have to learn as you go. That is the other benefit of charging by the job is you are assuming the risk for your learning curve, not the customer, which they would if paying by the hour. I'm sure you've heard the saying "You gotta fake it until you make it." There is some real truth to that, be confident, act professional, and like you know what you're doing even if you're still learning. I've been doing this 20yrs+ and I am still learning. There's always a new challenge you haven't seen before, a different way of doing something, new products or equipment to learn, etc. Lastly, don't sound like you are desperate for work, in your advertising or just talking to people. Act like you are "pretty busy, but we should be able to work you in. Let me check my schedule." People are sometimes skeptical if you seem too eager or don't have any other jobs lined up, but they don't need to know that, it's all how you present yourself.
I was fortunate enough to get work from my family and good friends who knew I am I'm the process of learning and they were just happy to be able to help and also get some work done. I have learned a lot and got some seat time which especially on the dozer has helped. It's almost like I have a level in my hind end now because I can feel when the machine is off a little. I do have a lot of equipment experience just not this exact equipment. I appreciate all the help and I do look forward to being a part of this community. I'm sure I'll have more questions and need more help. Thank you everyone ill post some pictures and videos before long.
Need to do what one of my former boss's did. He did clearing work for a big dirt work outfit, and some times found his own dirt jobs too. I was always told the biggest problem is to find some out fit that will pay you, that goes for doing any of this sort of work, even for private folks too. Did work with a friend in the 80's spent whole week ends etc. and never got a dime, he didn't either.
I'll speak from the customer point of view. As a customer, one of the hardest things I deal with is trying to locate a good contractor so I'm wondering how you advertise. I generally have only two options: referrals and online presence. A personal referral is best but it's also fairly rare in my neck of the woods as most folks don't need dirt work on a regular basis. I just don't know a lot of friends, relatives, neighbors, etc. who could refer anyone. On the flip side, a good online presence like a solid website with before/after pics and solid customer feedback is really what draws me in as a customer. Websites are cheap and fairly easy to build on your own but it's even easier to hire someone to do it for you if you prefer. Take a look at UpWork.com where you can hire a free-lance web designer to get you online (or upgrade your current online presence) in no time for reasonable costs. As stated above, you need a "theme" or area that you focus on, otherwise, folks may not know what services you really offer. And as the wise folks here already told you: Never screw your customer. Even inadvertently. That means agreeing to each job in writing (preferably a signed contract) that states exactly what will be done for what price. It's too easy to have the "handshake" job only to realize each party had a different understanding of what was to be done after the work was completed. Well documented work plans can keep a lot of potential misunderstandings from flaring up into major issues, complaints, or worst case, non-payment for a job. And then throughout the job, stay in contact with the customer (periodic phone calls or worst case just sending pics by cell phone) of the job in progress to ensure expectations are being met. I always try to be a good customer but I understand you'll run into those who just can't be pleased. But overall, best of luck with working for yourself. It such a good feeling of pride and accomplishment when customers gladly hand you the payment and say "thanks" for the hard work.
"Rock clause" didn't know that legal term existed, thanks @MG84 I just been telling people personally I may hit a rock and prices will go up. As for the other points MG84 pointed out, I must be a natural at this cause it's what I have been doing normally, "let me check my schedule I got so and so here then this one here so I can fit it in here, that is if weather holds out (since winter is hitting) I can fit you in here, if not you will fit in here. My contribution is if the weather doesn't allow favorable conditions it's not worth risking it unless the ground it flat and solid.
Some customers will never be happy and ALWAYS find something to complain about. Even a written description and estimate for the job means nothing. They have in their head they can haggle on price long before they even call you. Beware of customers wanting lots of work done. Some will think you will just throw in changes they make after the fact. Getting bonded isn't a bad idea because you can ask for a deposit up front. This should only be used on bigger jobs with lots of details. I've been burned in the past. Thankfully only a couple times but it's something to keep in the back of your head.
Thank you for that advice I will definitely keep that in mind!!
Thank you everyone for the help I really appreciate it. A little update for anyone who's wondering, I've been taking everything in from you guys and I sat down at my kitchen table with numbers i gathered over the course of 5 good days (not consecutive because I do still work another job while I'm starting out) and I have a really good idea of a daily, weekly, and hourly cost for myself and I also got a good feel for where I can be more efficient and where I am doing good. I did land a few smaller jobs and 2 big jobs that are hopefully going to be the ones to get me up and going full time. My name is getting out and I got my advertising up and going so things have really been good and I've been very blessed to have a community I can learn from and friends/family willing to help me get experience so again thank you to everyone who helped I will update again with pictures after I get some more done!
Hey guys it’s been a year and I’m happy to say after making this post and taking your guys’ advice I am doing very well and am hoping to possibly make an expansion this year! Thank you everyone for your wisdom!
Glad you're doing good.
That's great news. If you have any new advice for the next new guy, pay it forward and post it here. Congrats again on the success.
I most definitely will!!
Hey briant, I'm a new guy, around 3 months into it full time, my biggest battle is advertising, fill me in on how you did yours.
only way to know how to bid, is keep very accurate records. you have to know what your costs are, the profit margin you want, YOUR SALARY. profit many times gets mixed up as a salary. know your costs and keep accurate records on time/expenses on prior work and it will all fold together. i'm wintering in texas, and don't have access to it, but maybe there's somebody else here who has set up an excel spreadsheet for cost tracking?
Thank you! A spreadsheet would be very helpful.
Glad to hear things are going well as of your last post. Just wanted to point out if you enjoy more of the clearing and road building work and would like to deal with larger projects, pursue land development as your main line of work. Land development can be as simple as rough clearing, access roads, and drainage or you can take it the whole way to completion as the GC. I made a long career out of purchasing large plots of land under a realty company I owned and then hired my excavation company to do the rough prep. I would just have the property initially logged for timber by a subcontractor, have an engineer draft up site plans for development, get permits and approvals for the whole thing, and then bring in my own machines to rough clear, build access roads, and do the drainage. Move all your equipment to one site and stay there for however much of the development you want and then sell the property with permits and approvals to the final developer. Just getting the engineering, permits, and approvals done increases the land value tremendously enough so you dont have to sweat milking the rest of the work. I would only do the rough work and then cut out early selling the rest to someone else. Hardly had to deal with oversite just doing the rough work.