I have an old 230 hp 46A and I want to turn her up a bit. not much but just enough to make her come to life. she just barely will spin the tracks in 1st and and there doesn't apear to be anything wrong with the engine. good fuel presure the right rpm all new filters, good converter pressure (the converter isn't slipping because it pulls the rpm's right down when you're digging). no blowby and it dont burn oil, new exhaust manifold and reman turbo. For all intents and purposes it runs like a top but just dont have the power I think it should. I dont want a 300 hp K model but I would like her to be able to push a full blade without laboring so hard. Give me your thaughts on it
One place I worked had a guy running the machine that watched the Cat wrench get under the cover and tweak the power screw. When I went down to check on the machine a night later I could see the turbo and stack from across the pit in the pitch dark. When I got to the machine I found the lead seal cut off the cover and an operator doing a little smirk while denying he messed with it. I had the Cat wrench back out in the mourning and found the screw top turned even with the top of the lock nut. The operator got his last check from us when he showed up for his shift. You probably have a little lee way in the output. However what you gain in push also sucks more dollars through your fuel tank. I always liked them set at the top of the factory range but not one stall RPM more. Good Luck!
I believe that there is a little bit of adjustment in them:tong, but that may not be the whole problem. I'd give your local Cat dealer a call, might pay off in the long run. :my2c Also if you do go the fuel screw, probably best not to make the stack and turbo glow Buy HID lights instead
I ran a late 46A once. It was the 270 HP version. The rack limiter broke, and caused it to go way past what it was designed for, both fuel rate and rpm. I ran it for 2 months that way to finish a big job we were on. I controlled the fuel and rpm with my right foot, but under load where it could not overspeed, I would let her rip pretty good. It would outpush a competitors 834B rubber tire doing knockdown work. We had opposing sides of a channel reconstruction, and one of my favorite things was to line up with him, and push a bigger bladeload faster. He never could figure out how that old tractor did it. His 834B was pretty new, and my 46A was a rust bucket. Running hard like that, minding a scraper spread all day, it would empty the fuel tank in under 8 hrs. We had to splash about 50 gallons in at lunchtime so I could make the day. The old gal would boil dirt over the top of the blade while making the tracks rattle in 3rd gear. Running like that, I could keep the whole fill up myself, but if we backed down, it took 2 machines. Bossman and I talked it over and decided that if I watched it close and didn't burn it up, the extra fuel and wear on the tracks was worth it to save renting another machine to get the job done. After the job was done, we had the pump rebuilt at Cat. It ran good for many years after, but I always missed how it ran during that one job. I would not run one that hard again, but turned up some is OK, IF, and only IF the operator watches it closely and does not abuse the power.
I would agree, there's some benefit to turning the fuel up a little but only at little increments at a time. It could be just half a turn difference between glowing turbo and running fine.
I had an older D8H 235 HP, we turned it up a little like 20 RPM and set the rack up a tad, seems like there were shims to remove to open up the rack. Anyway a Cat mech did it at my request, never hurt a thing. Also the individual pumps on the injection pump may be worn not delivering a full shot of fuel plus the pump lifters may need setting. A good old school injection man could fix you up if you can find one
i can make the adjustments no problem, was just wondering how much improvement people had noticed. Like I said i just want to bump it up enough so that it will hold its full load rated RPM instead of falling on its face. I'm very carefull with my equipment, nothing I have is stock and i've never broke or burned anything down. thanx guys
hi, id do some performance checks first, has it good fuel pressure; 30psi; then check high idle speed, t/c stall speed; see how much boost turbo has at this speed. your turbo may be fine but if the plungers and barrells are worn along with the lifters she may be abit short in the timing and fuel delivery. Boost at tcs for a 235hp model is 22' inches or about 11psi. a270 is 27 iches mecury turbos were the same on late 235s and early 270s but blocks and cranks are different; is not recommended to try to make a235 into a 270. See how low your boost is and how low tcs is. TCS puts a definite load on engine [assuming tc is in good condition] and is a cheap quick dynometer. Next step might be to fit new plunger and barrell assemblys and reset the lifters, this with a new good turbo should get you back to a new standard setting. Havn,t got tcs speed for a 235, but a 270 is 1056rpm +- 50rpm with 1280 rpm full load and 1390 high idle. If you DO know what your doing here go for it; if not leave it for a expert. 6
I took about .010" worth of shims out from behind the rack stop and didnt notice any difference. I'll take out another 10 and see what it does. high idle was 1550, got that under control. Already considering selling it and buying a td25C or E. Not sure the old girl is going to be enough cat for what we need
If it was turning 1550 somebody has been tinkering with it. It has been my experience that as the governer spring and ends wear the RPM gets slower. If the machine is healthy otherwise it's worth testing the pumps and setting the pump lifters, maybe new nozzles.
yep, not sure what was going there, I thaught it sounded like it was turning a little fast. Its also idling a little high 700 on the low idle i turned the low idle adjustment untill it bottomed out and there was no change in RPM, thinking about pulling the side cover off the gov and having a look but it dont really bother me accept for the fact that its not right. We've been running injector cleaner thru it but i dont think it will do any good cause it dont smoke a bit unless you throttle her up and then you just get a little bit of black untill the hair dryer spools up
Not getting fuel then because those old engines would turn the sky black when you let off until the turbo got going
well by god, we can fix that . some other guys i talked to said it sounded pretty sick to them even for a low horse and the last low horse 46a that I ran was alot more lively than this one. I think i'll turn it up another .010 and see what happens. I know the turbo is spooling because the black (what little there is) clears up and you can hear it whistle. one of these days i'll have to post some pics and vids of our oporation. come to think of it i havent been able to find any vids of a low horse 46a working. i can find plenty of the high horse and of the old 2U vintage cats but our vintage seems to be scarce ?
Have you tested/adjusted the air fuel ratio control???
these old of machines dont have them.
According to the rack setting charts the maximum rack setting is 0.270 in. Full load rpm is 1240 and high idle is 1360 and 235hp is it, no higher option. That's using the 3S2342 Turbo, 3H4681 Torque Spring (0.035" th.) and spacer 4F2551 (0.016" th.) Governor spring color is Silver. Above for units to 46A12884
Turbo, its the common thing in the U.K. to find D8H series tractors with the air fuel ratio control, U.S. built H series tractors are scarce to find on our rock, anyhow it would seem that your injector pump and governor is in need of a refurb before your motor spits out a rod from over speed, by the sound of things the settings on your old chariot are heading the wrong way, I have adjusted these governors in the past to poke out near the same rpm under load as high idle, but its better to get 3/4 of something for a long time than the full deal for a fun packed week, I would think the adjustments you have done to be best discribed as a bit of a risk, the tractor is possibly 50 years old and might be glad of an easy day, my thoughts would be look for a "K" they are "bigger better faster"
well she's starting to come around. took another .010 of shims out and she seems alot more lively. now when you work it and the gove gives it the fuel you can hear the turbo spool up and the rpm's come up to the full load setting. to me it now seems to run like the other low horse models that i've ran and no, there wont be any more "cats" in my futer after this old girl serves her tour, unless maybe a 8 or 9 L model
I have seen plenty of cases where an old low horse cat has been turned up to the high horse "specs" of the later models. You're right there is no higher HP option for these old cats. same thing goes with the early D7E's they were low horse power and guys would have CAT turn them to the higher specs of the later E's
I thought a red hot turbo was normal under a load?
When the D8, 235's first came out they were the tractor to own, then Caterpillar interduced the D8H 270's that barried the 235's just enjoy that was a great tractor for it's time. I would rather run the older tractors than the high tracks anyday. Mike Nebergall
just a little update. The old girl is runnung good infact for quite a while it improved on its own day by day getting a little stronger every day untill it seems to have finaly peeked. she dont use a drop of oil and dont get hot even on the hotest day. shes moved at least a couple hundred thousand yds and still going strong.
ooo
digging out a big boulder at the mine
same rock
a picture of her the day she was dropped off
Great pics of a good older machine, mine had a Medford top identical to yours. Glad you got her going good
Yair . . . I don't understand the comments here about concern with glowing turbo's. Forgive my ignorance but I've seen enough of them to believe it was 'normal'. I have seen the turbo of a D353 in a trawler glowing white hot for hours . . . white hot to the extent it was transluscent and you could actualy see the movement of the rotating element inside. Same thing with scrub pulling tractors, D8's, Allis 21's, full load at wide open throttle for ten hours or so and the suckers fairly glowed . . . same thing with the Schwietzer on the "B" model. At 150--170,000 pounds I always used to prop the bonnet sides open on a big pull and you could see the glow of the turbo if you poked your head around the side. What's the go? Folks here saying this is not normal? Just asking. Cheers.
I recently resurrected my old and very worn 235 HP 46A after a head replacement and she is very weak as the original as turbo8781's machine was but the engine is still tight. It will still spin the tracks but rolls no blacksmoke(even while running 50/50 oil/diesel mix), RPM's drop dramatically, and is very slow to throttle back up after deceleration. After reading this post, I thought I would see if I could get her turned back up a bit. I have a Jensales manual for it but after looking, it only covers what I figure is a later pump which is mounted at an angle to the block and has a different filter setup and a handprimer. This machine's pump is vertical and is very different from what my book shows. I can easily handle working on the older machinery and want to carefully adjust her incrementally but don't know how now. Can anyone give me desciptive directions on how to adjust or remove shims from whatever may need tweaking? I have a hand tachometer for checking RPM's. Gauge shows fuel pressure to be good and turbo spools up quickly. I don't want a glowing turbo but would like for her to out push my IH TD20B.
if it will spin the tracks then its not doing to bad for what it is, but if you're like me and its no big deal if it blows up then i'd say turn it up. i git mine for scrap price so if it goes down i can still get my money back. I didnt expect mine to last as long as it did but it just keeps going and going without a single problem. i dont have a way to scan pictures from the manual or i would post some. it is very easy to do.
Nice looking Cat there turbo8781 Looks like some nice country you get to work in.
Don't turn it up man. That's not a 4 year old machine anymore! try a 50 year old machine! Engine by seem strong but that's the least of your worries when you turn it up! Especially on those low horse 8s. They have smaller axles in the final drives. I'd leave it how it is. More power isn't always the best in those old cats. I turn my K's down a shimidgen to save fuel and drive train wear and tear. Push the same, just alittle slower turning
Thanks for the photos. Really nice looking machine. Carrying that ripper around generally takes a lot out of the machine's pushing performance. (Except going down slope when it can be really helpful.) I suspect turning the fuel up was helpful in compensating for this extra weight alone. Every thing has trade-offs and I always liked machines without these but they are handy, even indispensible, in some situations. As for turbos glowing, I seem to remember this was sometimes an indication that the air cleaners needed servicing. Not enough air getting in to burn all the fuel in the cylinders so it was still combusting in the exhaust.
i've used the ripper alot more than i thaught i would even tho our dirt pushes fairly easy i sometimes find some pebbles like the one in the pictures and its very helpfull in getting them out. cant complian about the old girl but would love to have a K or an L to replace her. thanks for the compliments guys. i'll try to find some more pics of the operation
Yair . . . Different folks have different perceptions. No way would I ever consider a set of hooks on the back as detracting from a tractors pushing ability. I have always found a bare azzed tractor to be unballanced and only half the machine it should be . . . even going back to the cable days. A bare azzed twenty one with the front mounted PCU felt a different awkward tractor to one with a LeTorneau double drum hanging off the back. Cheers.
Hey guys, the old girl is still going strong, and yes the turbo and manifold will glow red I even burned up a pair of cotten gloves from putting them on the hood just above the turbo to warm up LoL. For being a $15k machine This old girl has done as much work as a$100k machine with the only breakdown being the mag on the pony motor. She turns the sky black when you throttle her up if you're not careful but once the turbo spools she burns crystal clear. It would be fun to put a high horse turbo on it to see if it would spool up faster.
Sounds like a win, not uncommon for black smoke on those big turbos until they get wound up.