You choose union or non union What would you do? if you have a family to feed and to keep the house and bills paid ect. you are a member of the operating engineers they have not got you any work times are tough you are not in the click so to say everyone has there favorites and they make sure that jumping joes excavating gets the first chance that comes along Your unemployment has ran out and a non union coal mining project that is long term (years) has come up your buddy got you a job with good pay $20.00 hr if you want it what would you do?
got to feed the belly somehow. I say take it till times change
well, i have been on the list since sept 29th. i am hungry. but, i signed a contract. my name is my bond. i have brothers in the local that are hurting, and hungry. they are doing what they have to do. i won't. the union was here for me for 17 years. if all my brothers forget the contract now, we have no bargaining power. i will survive. it will get better. i hope.
I've never been a member so can't coment from that side. From the non side though if I needed a job and one was offered one that was reasonable I'd take it. " First off I'd say do what feels right for you and your family. " That being said the hesitation in your message gives the impression you are worried about what others may think. Does it matter at all what they think? Are they taking care of your family? Or are they planning on taking care of you and your family? If they are true friends they will respect what you have to do to survive. If they can't they don't sound like much of a friend. If anyone faulted you for what you must ask them to talk to you about it when they were standing in your shoes needing to feed there family and pay there bills. If any one had a problem with me doing what I needed to for my family to survive they must have a deeper pocket than me and could go toss some rocks in their glass house for a while. It's always easier for someone to condemn someone else from the outside looking in. qball makes a valubale statement as well ( Posting at the same time ). I would respect either choice if they were made out of honor or necesaty to survive.
Yes, it's my choice. And I don't owe you any explanation for it. And no one owes me an explanation for their choice, whatever they choose. I try to avoid these discussions because they tend to become flame wars, but you are making it seem like we are all starving, or we don't want to work or something, and I don't appreciate it because that's not the case, at least not anyplace I know of. I wonder what this is all about, if you are trying to stir the pot :stirthepot, or if you are gathering information for some purpose. (probably involving lawyers) I'm not a big fan of lawyers.
With this statement if it is factual and correct it apears they aren't honoring there end of things. I'm not quite sure how the system works, but if it taking care of the click and letting you starve I would hand them the rocks for there glass houses. I think that's a lot of what's wrong with the world today "" the heck with you what about me, me, me ""!!!! It's ok for you to starve as long as they get to buy their new car or what ever.
From what I gather there is a lot of Union members on the no work list? Is that b/c the economy or is the union losing work to the non-union contractors? Its seems like the non- union guys are doing more work than the union contractors. Thats the way it looks here in MO.
It all depends on what geographical area your in, if you live in a weak union state or area and work union ya your gonna get your butt beat by the non-union contractors(bacis math). The dumbest thing ive ever heard though is to let your family go hungry because your ego. I am a member and i support the union, but nobody owns me.
I`ll not enter the union discussion even though I am a proud 25yr member. It comes down to taking care of your family.
Hey brother, why dont you drive a trailer or tandem or something not covered by the IUOE, so you wont ruffle any feathers and still feed your family.
Where do people get this idea that everyone in a union everywhere is literally starving? Around here the biggest source of work for non-union operators is residential housing construction. And we all know how that market is going. A lot of residential contractors have laid off people. (I know they had to because of the economy, not badmouthing anyone here)
Nothing like taking another unions work to ruffle some feathers. Not sure how the teamsters are in your area though. Also, we have several IUOE contractors in the area that have IUOE members running trucks for scale. It all comes down to how a signatory contractor awards the equipment and trucks in their fleet.
I am sure that after hearing all the horror about how long union members have been out of work or their position on the list, would give them that opinion.
There is a lot of nonunion trucking, too, always has been. When I drove a truck, no one even asked me to see a book. And if a company that was signed with teamsters really wanted to hire him, they could probably get him a book with them.
Do what you have to do to feed the kids and keep a roof over your heads...if that's what it comes down to. Will honoring your union contract prevent you from honoring payments on your mortage contract, insurance contracts etc? Which hit are you willing to take?
I never said take another locals paycheck away, but lets be honest about it. Do you believe every truck is driven by a union member? The trucks on residential sites around here are half driven by illegal aliens anyway,. So why not let this guy feed his family? He doesnt even have to work in the construction industry, go drop a roll off somewhere or deliver groceries, you get the idea. Times are tough and the name of the game isnt to save but to survive. I hope times get better but under this regime I have very serious doubts
First you made an agreement when you got a book. So when times get tough you bail on it? What else have you done to get a job outside of your agreement you signed? If you think you are getting shafted by your union speak up and man up! Kids to me or should I say young brave men are in a war to protect us. Sad if people cannot protect themselves against a union BA here in the USA. As a member and a union contractor now I never took crap from anyone. It all comes down to your word and your balls! The union was made by people caving in, it was made by sacrifices. Things are bad we all sacrifice together equally. Equally is the main word.
i've been watching this thread with some interest. i think all agreements between two parties should be honored....THAT said...i'm a business owner first and foremost, and my first desire is to insure that I make it. when it comes to a point that the people who work for me and i can't agree anymore on wages/benefits....we have to split the sheets, they need to find another job that pays them what they're feel they're entitled to, and i can hire people that can help me build my business and be able to afford.....and i shouldn't get beat up on that. my business is small enough, and i'm old enough...that i can't hire an "operator".....i need the person i throw on the seat of whatever machine he claims he's capable of running, to do it with some degree of proficiency.....and yet not be afraid to jump off that machine and help a laborer do whatever needs to be done. more power to those who get the huge wages/benefits..you negotiated it, and in reality...in your world...it's yours...i just can't afford you, and alas...i think this nation in the next 10 years won't be able to either.
Vary well said. I feel the same way and I too am a business owner. I had 1 seasonal loader operator position(snow plowing). Over 50 applications in 24 hours. This year there will be no BS from any of my guys thats for sure. On another note a man has to eat and and support his family, contracts dont taste good and are not that filling.:Banghead
i can only speak for me, and for me, the union has been excellent. i have never bowed or kissed heiney, don't have too. things are terrible here, we are 48% unemployed, and our trade is booming compared to the others. so, i work at our food bank. every thursday we fill a semi with food boxes for brothers who would starve without. i am fiercely proud of that. and my brothers that are staying true. and our leaders, though not perfect, they are trying.
and i have never kissed any heiney...nor asked anybody to kiss mine.....i don't have to either. qball, i wish you well, i hope the best for you...but in reality, this isn't the same america our fathers had in the 50's and 60's....times have truly changed and will evolve considerably more between now and the 2012 election. our nation as a whole, is broke, there is no money left, we can't keep printing money, the chinese own our azzes...the strong will survive...and people who draw a w-2....should remember who signs the front side of their paycheck. they're entitled to a profit just as much as you deserve what you feel you're worth of in wages/benefits. but a lot of union babble i hear is how bad the employers abuse their employees...sorry, in this day and age, i'm just not buying it.
day, you are right. i will be union till the end. mine or the unions. thats the way i was raised. not saying i am better or right, just me. but, i have always taken very good care of a contractor that takes care of me. hell, i bled lindahl red for the 5 years i worked there, and still deeply regret quitting. we are a team. the contractor needs us, we need them. i just hope to work in my trade this year. so, lets all agree to disagree, because i am getting heartburn and i am tired of having to drink myself to sleep.
Qball, I wish I knew more union guys like you. I wish there were more union guys like you but around these neck of the woods you just dont see it.:usa
Mocking people who are unemployed due to lack of work and taunting them does not show good character.
I'm kind of impressed as in noticing that both sides have mentioned honoring or respecting in there posts. It does seem both sides have something incomon as a whole here. One thing I didn't really notice and not intending to fuel any fires by any means. Just some food for thought. Would honoring ones comitment to his family make him any less honorable? How would you chose? By which ever came first the job or the family? If I was in the original posters shoes and enjoyed what I did, but wasn't working because of the economy I'd have to weigh the options. The original post said: "if you have a family to feed and to keep the house and bills paid ect" "Your unemployment has ran out" I likely wouldn't take the other job just to keep the lifestyle the curent job had given me. I would to provide food for my family and a roof over there head. I'm not sure about how the unemployment is stuctured, but around here if you've maxxed it out you've cut your lifestyle by 3/4 or more already. I drew it once here for about 2 weeks in the late 80's or early 90's and haven't since. I haven't worked in a month now and been off and on like that for the better part of three years. When I do get to work it's normally only for a couple of days. This time last year it was more like 5 months off. At 2 months I took a labor job for a couple of months with some friends in a totally non related industy to cover the bills for 1/4 of what I make when things are going ok. I think in the end it comes down to each persons individual circumstances and not knowing all of those I couldn't truely form an opinion either way about another persons choices.
who is doing that? what'd i miss?
x2 :beatsme
Times are not always going to be good with IUOE. But when you signed you probably had that no matter what attitude. You need to have that same desire now. You want work and (you are not favorites list) find it, it will not find you. IUOE and your Local, offers training through out the year. Pipeline classes such as side boom, hoe and dozer, and specialty classes, John Henry, Vac Hoe, Bending etc... offer a three week course mostly all winter long that will pay you $300.00 per week plus, put you up at a nice hotel and cater lunch! Locals also offer PSM and Hazmat and a whole list of other cert classes. Take advantage of these, when one part of the industry is flailing other parts are booming. Also, go to the training site. There is always room for improvement. It is hard to overlook a star, favorite or not, the union wants to send a contractor the best person they have available for the job. When your area is slow call the locals from other states and get on their out of work list. As operators, the better we get the more complacent we get. In this economy we have to hone the skill and offer the contractor a true professional in the seat, not just an able body. Just a ladies perspective.
A union is only as strong and healthy as it's members. If it's members go bankrupt and have to leave the area what good did that do to anybody? Take care of your family. It's hard to explain to your wife and kids that your more loyal to your union than to them, good luck with that one.
The original post in this thread seems to imply that we are starving beggars, scrounging to survive. That is not the case. I have been an operator over 20 years and through all the ups and downs have never had a problem providing for me and mine, I am proud of that so I resent being talked about like a poverty case. The other implication is that we don't want to work, also incorrect. There are other jobs besides operator, and industries besides construction so saying you would prefer not to work as a non union operator, does not mean you don't want to work. Again I think this was an attempt on his part to stir the pot and make trouble and apparently it is working.
um think your the only taking it that way.......:beatsme for me (not union) i say do what u need to do to keep food on the table
Charity starts at home. Take care of your home & family first.Then you can help other folks in time of need.Dosent really matter if you are union or not,It works the same for everyone.
The union wont let me have a withdraw card I dont have any benefits as the union would not let me have any as im a contractor that was not incorporated i have not renewed any contracts in the past year the only thing i use to have to do was pay my dues for the card I started a new company not signatory with anyone. the other company is legally owned by my father. I now have been fined how much ? i dont know, the reason not clearing into a local for working at a coal mine Job, coal mine I never knew operators claimed coal mines that would be UMWA teritory. I cant find it in the unions operators book what can they do to me? anybody know? what would i be out as i dont have any retirement thru them or benefits. they can have the card. they are trying to fine me for working at a mine.
Any work is better than no work fiat, like I said before you can opt to work outside the construction industry altogether and not make anyone upset. That seems like the way to go to me because you are obligated to your family first by virtue of being a man, and being a professional operator leads me to believe you have considerable intelligence that you could put forth in any field you apply yourself to. I have driven a grocery truck, pallet truck, delivered pizzas pumped gas and would shovel crap against the tide if I had to feed my family. I dont think you have to go against your local, you do have to feed your family, but if you look hard enough you should be able to find something satisfactory to all. Good luck and GOD bless you and yours:usa
Sorry if I overreacted.
Best of luck.
HERE HERE !!! Ive traveled here and there in my carrer ..Always have gone union ..I know what Im getting ,before I even get the dispatch to go ..and once on the ground ....there's no change's to the pay scale or otherwise .. Some non-union co's in the past..before i went union .. have a habit of promising you the moon ..on a simple piece of paper and everything is upside down and backwards once your on the ground .. If I gotta go ..its Union MHO..the non-union sector can pound salt ..
Ouch guess ill leave that one alone. I hope this is the end of this. ointhead
liebherr1160, I thinks thats a little harsh. No one on here was bashing the union or non-union. I myself am non-union and proud of it. I don't fully understand the union and what they have to offer, but what I do understand in the bottom line. I had a BA in my office, tell me how great the Union was and what they have to offer . What I didn't understand was what they had to offer. From what I gather, you, the working class pay Union dues for insurance, retirement and so on, but why would you want to take a deduction out of your 40 hr work week check to pay for a BA salary? I am sure there is over 600 on the books waiting to go back to work, do you think your BA has taken a pay cut? I would say no. So what are you getting out of the union? looks like to me the union is the ones pounding salt, why us non union contractors continue to work and hire union operators that are out of work.
It seems like you have been trying to start a flame war since you joined this forum, so don't get your panties in a bunch about Liebherr1160's comment. It's none of your damn business where others choose to work anyway. No one here owes you any apology or explanation.
And let's move on, back to the topic of the thread. You guys know that the "mine is better than yours", union vs non-union argument does not have a place on the board.
I am not trying to start a war here. "If I gotta go ..its Union MHO..the non-union sector can pound salt .", is a quote from another member to slam us non union guys, I guess thats not grounds to start a war. I am not asking for an apology, never stated that. I am just asking what makes the union tick and how you justify being in the union.
JD9520, did you not read my post above? It's very simple, let this go and move on or we can do it the hard way. There have been comments made from both parties that have no place here on the board. NOW is it CLEAR?
Well, the only thing i am going to say is you have to take care of your family frist, and any job is better than NO job.
how about them Olympics ?:cool2
Curling? Is that a sport Kinda like horseshoes i guess?
NOW is it CLEAR? Yeah kinda... like lifting weights and bowling, too, kinda... OCR...
Yes it was harsh i guess ..but my own opinion .. Its not personal .. Ive done both side's ..both have there flaws ..and good ...just when you see your supervisor taking your unit out on a saturday after a short week ..I do have a bit of a distaste for the non-union sector ..not a hatred ..let that be understood
Take the job. It doesn't seem to be that hard of a decision feed your family or starve. In the end you have to look out for 1# because no one else will.
To my 2 buddies, buckethead and qball, I am totally with you guys, I am union also and thank god for my membership in my local, along with my capabilities it provides me with a great living. That is what I am trying to tell our man fiat here, you signed a contract, and a lot of good men bled to get it in ink and I am eternally grateful for the foresight that they had. Its unity that makes the union. be proud and honor it. That being said the guy is still a operator in the field and as long as he honors his commitment to his local and he doesnt run a rig, well we should all wish him well to feed his family. The answer is fairly straightforward and simple, work outside the industry, hopefully dont take any legal citizens or other union members work away and everyone should be happy, its getting tough out there guys, lets not splinter ourselves apart, we are all red white and blue., respect defined work parameters and lets get our hands dirty together, all us blue collar guys want to provide for our families. Lets get AMERICA back to being cocked,locked and ready to rock:usa
then it's safe to assume....that you'd sit back and draw unemployment rather to accept a position any less than what you currently have....and you'd never take a job from somebody less qualified, worthy as you....that you'd NEVER step below your qualifications, and steal a job from someone who is not as qualified as yourself. i think i'll join a union
day, i am content with being union. i will not work, in my trade, non union. ya see, i was brought up to have a little honor. now, if you wanna be a rat, er, um, non-union, i don't care. i do care about you trying to provoke some of us union guys. so, i kindly ask that you stop. PLEASE! i don't feel like being suspended again.
to me, that pretty much sums it up.....this tells me you'll take a job from a non union member in another trade, industry....starve his family to death...as long as yours doesn't?
yeah, i'm one of those preeks that sign the front side of a paycheck
i wouldnt know, i have never worked for a rat, much less one that can write. now, why don't you call me, we can discuss the err of my ways personally.
You ladies play nice, or take it to the parking lot, you can beat each other with your handbags there
:deadhorse:iagree:my2c
I warned you all twice, thread closed!!!